Demonic_Apparition
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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archived from daoc/general
Since their is official threads for so many classes right now, and their is none for theurgists... then this is the one. Its a long read, but I think it will be worth it.
in light of the 1.62, and the massive amounts of class improvements, updates, additions, and a few nerfs, I was (and im not alone in this notion) wondering why almost every single class in the game got something new, except Theurgists. Not only are they the most endangered species of albs, but that cripples albion since we are the only source of PBT. Furthermore, theurgists Earth line is pretty much one of the most unsatisfying lines in the game across any realm. The ice line is completely useless (yes I will go as far to say that it is by a long shot the most useless line in the game, even worse then old spell lines that got buffed up). The theurgist TL has documented plenty of logs, some more extensive then the logs hunters created that helped them get fixed up. And (correct me if I am wrong please) theurgists are the ONLY class in the game that has not gotten a new class unique ability, outside of RA's and caster absorve buffs. NEW CONTENT IS WHAT KEEPS PEOPLE PLAYING, and this is why Theurgists are a dieing class. Even on populated servers, finding an earth theurgist is like hitting gold. If you look at www.camelot-seer.com you will see the population/realm point ratio is one of the lowest in existance. Also if you look you will see theurgists have a very high decline in population compared to other classes. There is plenty of evidence out there, you hardly even have to look.
Some might say "well if all your going to do is complain and not make suggestions, then get off the dev boards", so I will make suggestions, and point out the different weak points of the class. Keep in mind that I am not asking for nerfs of other classes, and I am not going to mention any other classes period.
Earth: Problems
Pets: Mythic gave our pets an immunity to CC, thats nice and all, but since they still only last 29 seconds, if you cast them at anywhere over half range, they are almost dead before they reach the target. And with sprint, they can be easily out ran. since they cost a fixed 12% mana each, to take someone out you need to waste about a full mana bar (at around 80-100ish dmg per swing). after you are out of mana, the target only needs to run away for a few seconds, and your mana was wasted. Some people might say the air pet stun is too cheap. First, most people who say this base it on either 1v1 circumstances, or the pvp servers. Not only is the end game of the normal servers not anything close to 1v1, but Mythic clearly stated when they came out with the pvp servers that they would not make any nerfs or buffs to classes according to their preformance on the pvp servers. Earth pets are like a weak version of Dot's.
PBT: its nice, but lets face it, no one plays earth theurgists to 45 earth, hence, there is almost no 6spbt in albion. Besides that, the expensive cost of pets combined with pbt which drains tons of mana basicly makes a theurgist a "sit back and watch" class. you can cast some pets, put on pbt, and wait. Your pets, on a regular basis will be useless, and you get the honor of watching the enemies single you out and kill you, then you get to become neighbors with the worms in the ground. (those worms are nice, spent so much time with them I have made good friends with them). Putting pbt in a useless line on a paperarmor class that burns mana very fast is a bad Idea. Something needs to be done with mana consumption for theurgists. The only reason I see that this has not been fixed is because many people think Mythic does not want albion to have a PBT class, so they wont fix the earth line.
Earth: Fixes
1)add some sort of damage. the Ice nukes suck, making your only damage your pets, which we have already said are very useless. Maybe something SIEGE orientated? I dont know, but it is in the class description (and yes I know many classes are different then their description) but I hardly thing siege bolt is enough to consider us siege mages.
2)Pet and/or PBT mana reduction, or some sort of self mana regen buff. (maybe better then the sorcs, but wont stack with sorcs so not to bee too good? its an idea)
ICE: Problems
Well, not much I have to go over with ice. At least earth is used in combo with wind, but ice really is dead. the worst pets by far, easily resisted nukes and they do not have the run speed of the other 2 pets. Besides that they have the same problems as the earth pets. The ice nuke, which adds a meisly snare, is still useless because it has been proven with logs that high spec in ice does not have high payoff in damage like in other spell lines. So it retains the same crappiness as the normal ice nukes. the only decent thing in the ice line is the AOE root, but root is not enough to spec ice, at least not for me and most other people.
ICE: Fixes
1)Maybe increase the damage on the ice nukes? or give them a debuff? They need to be at least decent like other spell line nukes. Its not like ice adds so many other benefits that good dmg will be too cheap..
2)Fix those ice pets. I dont care how you do it, but do it. Maybe get them less resisted, up damage, have their damage based on your ice spec, give them run speed, faster casting... anyone of those.
WIND: ina nuttshell
Wind is the most popular line for theurgists. Usually it comes with a minor spec in earth, for the 10spbt. Not a totally bad line, better then lines on some other classes, but unlike other classes, Theurgists have only one line that is usefull at all, and wind is still not that great. The mez range is 1250, when every other mez range is 1500. Why its like this, I dont know. No one answeres why.. why is a dumb question to answere for Mythic. The main fix for the wind line is to just increase the mez range to 1500. Easy, painless, not too cheap, no /nerfs.
This is by no means a complete list... if you want one, look at the many well written Theurgist TL reports. When over 90% of the player base of Theurgists are wind, it says one of either 2 things.
1) The other 2 lines suck too much to use
or
2) Wind is real cheap.
I dont think it is #2.. there are far more cheap lines in the game, and in Albion to play. And all the evidence points to #1.
Another thing to mention, since the archer changes made grp pbt more useless then before (not that archers did not need changes, not saying /nerf), this makes the earth line even more useless. I am aware that other classes also got hit with this, but other classes have more then 1 usefull spell line, and other classes also have a more even split of population between their spell lines. Theurgists are wondering, is their a grudge vs them? Did someone on Mythic get unlucky enough to get killed by one? I don't know, but I can't put any other reason into it.
You agree with me /bump
You disagree with me then show some evidence against theurgist improvements.
You want to troll for no reason, please dont. Thanks for reading this, hopefully 1.63 will bring some changes, or at least some changes sometime in the near future.
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{old}Suess_TheLowbie
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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<< Furthermore, theurgists Earth line is pretty much one of the most unsatisfying lines in the game across any realm >>
I can see how this line wouldln't be the most exciting to play.
<< NEW CONTENT IS WHAT KEEPS PEOPLE PLAYING >>
Yes, but new class content is lame, imo. This is especially true since leveling take so long. I say, create a class, balance, then leave it alone.
<< if you cast them at anywhere over half range, they are almost dead before they reach the target. And with sprint, they can be easily out ran>>
Ok this is where you are going to have to do some explaining. Everyone complains about nearsight. How it makes them useless because they don't have range. And to take someone out of a battle for one minute is taking them out of most of the battle.
Ok that's fine, but Theurgs always cast those damn pets on my caster and I end up running from those for about 15+ seconds. Unlike nearsight, I can't do anything for those 15+ seconds. Usually, some tank sees me running in circles and just whacks me anyways. I can't do anything about it, since I can't stop to cast. At least with nearsight, I could still root the tank when he gets close enough.
<< Theurgists have only one line that is usefull at all, and wind is still not that great. The mez range is 1250, when every other mez range is 1500. Why its like this, I dont know >>
Maybe because albs so much range already? 2000+ range mezz (including radius) + quick cast > all most of the time. Scounts have the range advantage, and theugs have the range on pets.
Having said all this, I play to plan a Theurg. Always interested me and when the /level command is available, I will be creating one.
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Kaolla_Nut
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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I have to agree with the original poster, earth thuergs need fixing. When I have a Thuerg in my group I wonder if I did something right that day to deserve it... if I have a pure Earth Thuerg I look out the window to see if there are any pigs flying.
/bump
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Huntsekker-Pellinor
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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hey so does just about all of mid, get in line
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Fingoniel
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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earth theurgists might actually be improved by 1.62h - they'll no longer be running pbt so they'll have mana to use their base ice nukes (half-specced from minidings)
so be afraid! you might hear some earth-theurgist death messages, shortly before they /respec all to air (both of them)
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soccervh
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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I want gtae dots highest level dot = 57.
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{old}jakedomino
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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/bump for much needed theurgist love
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{old}Aelie
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Abaddon is at the E3, he has may be charmed Sanya  .
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Demonic_Apparition
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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true, sorcs do have a very long ranged mez, but this is a new change. Theurgists have been asking for a 1500 mez for a very very very very long time, and instead of fixing ours they boosted sorcs. And their are other lines in the game with qc and 1500range nukes, albs not the only ones, but like I said I dont want to get into class naming, thats why I didnt mention the sorcs before this (and yes sorcs did need loving, not say /nerf sorcs)
oh yeah, bump it up
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Grizlon
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Abaddon getting some soox.... 
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{old}VeyHolyT
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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lol earth theurgies...good times. Its really easy to play one in a group, just punch in the earth chant and sit. Didn't the mythic instruction booklet that came with daoc say earth theurgies were good for sieges? bahahahahhahah
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Sarumz
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Good post Demonic
I agree. I'm a hybrid ice/earth theurg so yeah I'm biased a bit but esp with this latest patch Earth Theurgs are incredibly lame. I ONLY went to 35 earth so I could find grps that wanted a theurgist so after a year I could finally ding 50. That line is the biggest joke. I play around with other toons in all 3 realms and at lvl 7 every single one has more versitility than my earth line. And I thought we were suppossed to be utility. heh I feel bad for full earth and ice theurgys. I try not to complain but the only thing I hope Mythic will do is look at the last 3-4 earth theurgys who respec over to wind. In fact I'm prolly going to dump mine and go that way as well...oh well....thanks again Mythic for syphoning 14 months of my life and $245 for my gimped toon that was suppossed to be a "powerful utility caster and seige master extraordinaire" rofl...
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_CuD_
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Does the new pet runspeed fix work on Theurg pets too?
If so this could be a huge boost for the class.
Has anyone tested it out?
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Xasdf
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I saw some freak Theurg asking for a powertap line for Earth ROFL. I think the whole temp pet stuff is flawed.
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Demonic_Apparition
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Subject:
Theurgists: They need some loving..
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bump
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Legendadry
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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stun, give em hibbies stun
its a really easy cut and paste, not even too complicated for Mythic
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Seles2
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Just give thergs "i win" spells like chanters.
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SkraelingShortbus
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newsflash sorc aoe mez is not 2k its bolt range 1875.
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AquaBlaze
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Well, with the proposed free respec, Earth/Ice theurgists will be getting some love: they can all go Air. No need for PBT anymore, now they can just only partially suck as the more-effective crappy caster of Albion. ^_^
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{old}Gentle2
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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I have earth theurgist with 45 earth 
I would kinda love receive some siege-helping spells on that earth line .. be it gtaoe, or those soft of "wave" spell that someone posted as suggestion time ago, or spells to affect doors and such, whatever
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soccervh
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any three of these ideas would be fine with me.
gtae dots
cold debuff 15%/30%/50%
ae stun
all would be great. just one would be fine.
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Heladus
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Had it exactly right .... free single line respec now means I will be going the standard 45 Air route. Just getting too tired of shelving my 50 and hoping for something down the line.
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Axauv
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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oh do theurgists cast spells? didn't know they had any
/bump
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Demonic_Apparition
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bump anyone?
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{old}Aelie
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cold debuff 15%/30%/50%
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Nibien
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"I saw some freak Theurg asking for a powertap line for Earth ROFL. I think the whole temp pet stuff is flawed."
Thats exactly what I want
30spec - 35 Delve Damage
40spec - 70Delve Damage
50Spec - 100Delve damage.
Even if this was deemed "overpowered" It could be made instant on a 20 or 30 second timer. Jesus, I just want to beable to cast a spell every one in awhile.
This would help solve the power problem, also give a bit of extra damage output, something sorely needed.
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KnumbKnuts
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TWF would be a nice RA....
Another prob with earth theurg pets is that the target gets lit up with the earth buff graphic when the pet is launched, which gives the target a nice early warning.
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{old}Suess_TheLowbie
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<< newsflash sorc aoe mez is not 2k its bolt range 1875. >>
Wait this just in off the presses. There is something called a radius.
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Sarumz
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Unfortunatly now with this respec I think the last remaining earth theurgs will disappear to air...I'm pondering it but I'm screwed at 41 ice and 35 earth. Be interesting to see the repercussions of this patch. I think Mythic is trying to do away with the entire earth theurg line myself. If noone is speced in it then why do they need to fix it seems pretty logical to me...Thanks Mythic yet again.
Sarumz 50 Theurgist <DoA> Lancelot
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{old}Kaswyn
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bump because there just AINT ENOUGH ACTIVE THEURGISTS TO MAKE THE NOISE.
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Demonic_Apparition
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buuuump
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ManowareZ
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Fix chain stunning pets
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zertam
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I see some theurgs around, sometimes, so they must be fine.
Same with armsmen, mercenaries, scouts, paladins, cabalists, minstrels, and clerics.. Well, most of the clerics I see are hanging out at the PK--buffbotting--but that's ok, right?
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veleuk
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"Fix chain stunning pets "
If you are chain stunned by theurgist pets, it's becuase you deserve it.......it takes quite a nice amount of power and time for you to be standing in the casters range for them to "chain stun" you.
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Demonic_Apparition
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zertam-
"I see some theurgs around, sometimes, so they must be fine.
Same with armsmen, mercenaries, scouts, paladins, cabalists, minstrels, and clerics.. Well, most of the clerics I see are hanging out at the PK--buffbotting--but that's ok, right? "
not sure if your being sarcastic or what, but first of all you may see some theurgists, sometimes, but you wont see earth theurgists or ice theurgists. That is what this is about. There is 30-1 of each of those classes for each earth/ice theurg. Thats if your lucky enough to find one on.
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AquaBlaze
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And you thought they were rare before...wait until after 1.62. With PBT = crap and the free line respec, do you think the remaining Earth theurgists are going to hang around another year or so, praying for a fix? HELL NO. They're going to go Wind, or quit in frustration. The last remaining Earth theurgists after 1.62 will be guild bots, taken out only in certain PvE encouters.
Oh, and to the Mythic morons who can't read...
Earth Theurgist + Respec != Class Fix (equasion borrowed from Caliwyrm)
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Heladus
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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/e counts the days until he can finally become a ghetto bubble blowin' wind wizard ... go go single line respec
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Demonic_Apparition
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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if(Mythic.fixTheurgists())
for(int i = Mythic.Population(Theurgists); i < 14,000); i++)
else
Mythic.Population(Theurgists) = 0;
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eridani1
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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ive got a 50 theurg. 47 earth/26 ice. its really sad he is just a bot now:( i really like the gtae dot idea. just that spell alone would be awesome for sieges. insta mez/stun and a cold debuff is a terrible idea though. the last thing this game needs is a new mana chanter or more insta cc.
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{old}Aelie
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bump
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Demonic_Apparition
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bumps r us
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The_Kierdaghs
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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I kinda like the idea of giving them a cold debuff in earth spec. Would make the baseline ice nukes more viable as well as fulfill a support roll that the class is already meant for.
Another thing that all PBT classes should get is a reduction of PBT power usage. 50% would seem fair to me, since most PBT classes need serenity III just so they can be playable.
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Svartalfimposter
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"in light of the 1.62, and the massive amounts of class improvements, updates, additions, and a few nerfs, I was (and im not alone in this notion) wondering why almost every single class in the game got something new, except Theurgists. "
"Something new", haha. Do you want a smack with the nerfbat, too? Keep your head down.
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AquaBlaze
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"Do you want a smack with the nerfbat, too? Keep your head down."
Um...you couldn't have had your head down further than the Theurgist class pre-1.62, and look what happened. We got our head lopped off, so that others could feel better. Simply staying down and shutting up isn't good enough for Mythic, they now have taken our class and removed its final working component. Kudos.
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Hyperion191
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000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
001111111000110001100011111001111100011111110
001100011100110001100011000110001100011000110
001100111000110001100011000110001100011111110
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earth theurg fix binary code ? no, watch again or move back a little from the screen... 
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AquaBlaze
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Did you hack into the Mythic database for that one? LOL!
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{old}Znail-2
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Quote:
--------------------------------------------
Another thing that all PBT classes should get is a reduction of PBT power usage. 50% would seem fair to me, since most PBT classes need serenity III just so they can be playable.
--------------------------------------------
Best idea in this thread. All 3 PBT classes share the same power problem, only one who suffers less is the Warden, but they would also benifit from being able to use some spells now and then.
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Jilael
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#1 /bump
#2 Earth line sucks, I can deal with the power drain of my theurg specced to 45 earth rest wind, BUT I and most theurgists need/want something more for that investment, especially with the nerfbat hitting our groupmates pbtage. My suggestions for this line would include the GT in the earth line.
#3 The cold line is simple crap, unusable, now the snare will help with the new snare fix... but still has issues, 2 viable spells not that great, maybe livable for some, not sure, but no rp usable things here.
#4 The wind is line is okay, and dd's decent.
#5 Pet usage is not viable at all, period. maybe to interrupt a caster but the pow cost is too high, especially for pbt theurgists. simple fix here, the FINAL pet spell only make it based off of standard power, not percentage of total, I DO understand why you have it as a percentage but less needed at higher lvls and no longer a big problem. PLEASE fix this. kk thx
#6 Post a public apology and admit theurgists are [mod] for keep sieges OR give us sieging abilities like the GT in the earth line, or cold line if you must but DEF give us one.
Thanks for taking the time to read this, I will now go back to my now uber as hell merc *post patch* who honestly only needed dirty tricks fixed.
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Tritone_33
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/Agree to original post
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-Euphoria-
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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BUMP!
also notice that theurgist have the least amount of spells in thier base and spec paths then any other caster in the game.
earth base=3(shield,damage buff, Buffer)
earth spec=3 (pet, debuff,bt/pbt)
ice base=2!! (nuke, root)
ice spec=3 (nuke/snare, pet,ae root)
wind base=2!!(haste,speed buff)
wind spec=3 (pet,nuke,ae mez)
the ae mezz is pretty much useless with 1250 range I find it much more useful after purging and using it at close range to maybe mezz 3 tanks near me for 10 secs..the range and teh duration need an increase. The earth and ice lines are just horrible and wind being the best and most viable line of the class is STILL lacking.
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Euphoria-Theurgist, illplague-Cabalist, Riptide-infiltrator
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Euphoria - Sorc, Conundrum - Witch Elf
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Demonic_Apparition
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bump
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Caliwyrm
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Power consumption should be a priority fix.. Running 6 sec PBT allows for you to do...not much..
I'd also like to see Seige Bolt made Earth spec at different levels, the higher the spec, the shorter the recast timer.
Replace the Seige Bolt RA with Barrage of Elements-RA that allows for the creation of a ram with no parts in inventory.
Seige masters, remember?
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AquaBlaze
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Mythic's having a hard enough time remembering us PERIOD, let alone as siege masters.
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NightPath
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I've borrowed a friend's Theurg, and wow..they suck hard.
Their mana drains like the Animist's mana when casting a pet. 6 pets later no mana = no defence = no PBT =pissed folks.
Theurgs and Animists need to have one of 2 things:
1- Automatic Pet Death Power Recycle -= when pet dies, a % of the mana comes back to the caster
OR
2- Put the pets on a Concentration System. The pets die, conc goes back up, wham, back in business.
There are 2 simple, easy steps to fixing pet/mana consumption.
And yes, Theurgs really do have some problems and do need some sprucing up. AoE GTAE DoT be cool, or a new baseline nuke in Earth.
Fixeth the Theurgs!
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Demonic_Apparition
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bump
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AquaBlaze
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*staples thread to top of page* Stay put, damnit!
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LanoItar
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Very good arguments, lots of valid reasoning.
My Earth Theur (first char) is up to level 23 now, but he's a damned fine spellcrafter!
Meanwhile, I have 2 level 50's that actually have playable qualities and are fun.
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Crandell
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Frankly there is no reason to even play earth or ice line theurgs. I won't even go into the reasons because everyone knows what they are, this is why albion lacks 6 sec pbt and will soon lack pbt all together. Wind spec is the only line to go with and you can actually contribute to a group. Mythic is basically saying now that casters shouldn't be all that powerful, mythic needs to wake up and realize that since we give up so much to be a caster we should be able to kill something without dying right off the bat. Theurgs NEED major love not just some stupid spell added they need a major make over.
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Crandell
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bump
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NightPath
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I think that Theurgs abilities all look good on paper.
Mind those key words: Look good and Paper
Bumpity bump
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Balthar_IV
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Please give the Earth line an additional type of offensive spell (GTAoE or PbAoE or some type of power tap spell) to make earth more attractive to players.
A Theurgist without PBT is like a poor man's Wizard. Make the earth line more attractive so that Albion can get some PBT's.
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{old}Neslyn
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"1- Automatic Pet Death Power Recycle -= when pet dies, a % of the mana comes back to the caster
OR
2- Put the pets on a Concentration System. The pets die, conc goes back up, wham, back in business."
Wow, I actually really like those ideas. Especially the concentration-based one, but the power-recycling one is probably more balanced.
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AquaBlaze
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"I think that Theurgs abilities all look good on paper."
No...Wardens and Runemasters look good on paper. (and most would argue that they look good in game too) Earth Theurgist spec HAS ALWAYS looked like crap on a stick, and plays like it too. Anyone who argues otherwise has a) never played the game, or b) blind as a bat.
Frankly, this nerf surprized me, as the uber-crap treatment of Theurgists left me expecting a fix...not another nerf.
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{old}Fedifensor
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"A Theurgist without PBT is like a poor man's Wizard."
Post-patch, a theurgist with PBT is like a poor man's wizard...but with less mana.
And a Theurgist with 6-second PBT is like a wizard's inept apprentice wearing a blindfold and perpetually out of mana.
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Demonic_Apparition
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bump, bump, bum bum bump it up!
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AquaBlaze
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"And a Theurgist with 6-second PBT is like a wizard's inept apprentice wearing a blindfold and perpetually out of mana."
LOL! And...
B
U
M
P
Earth Theurg: "What is this thing you call mana?"
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{old}jakedomino
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"Earth Theurgist spec HAS ALWAYS looked like crap on a stick, and plays like it too. Anyone who argues otherwise has a) never played the game, or b) blind as a bat."
Dead accurate and sadly true.
"Frankly, this nerf surprized me, as the uber-crap treatment of Theurgists left me expecting a fix...not another nerf."
Me, too, for as bad as theurgists have it I was expecting theurgs to finally get the love that they so badly need (their mez given the same range as everyone else's mez, pet costs lowered, earth spec being finally fixed so it isn't the worst spec line in the game) and instead Mythic nerfs PBT.
What are they thinking? Hey, Mythic! Pay attention! Theurgists need help BAD.
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Demonic_Apparition
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bumps
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{old}jakedomino
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/bump for theurg love
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{old}Fedifensor
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"Me, too, for as bad as theurgists have it I was expecting theurgs to finally get the love that they so badly need"
Well, the theurgist "love" was in the Albion patch. Honestly, it helped Air theurgists more than it helped Earth or Ice...which is very, very odd.
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{old}Bubble_Bot
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Frankly, this nerf surprized me, as the uber-crap treatment of Theurgists left me expecting a fix...not another nerf.
aye, same for my warden thats now retired.
Theurgists, please stop complaining, your class is far superior to my warden. Your nukes outdamage my melee, you have stun (on air pets) ae root (even low ice spec) and ae mez (granted it dosent count for much) but that is THREE FORMS OF CROWD CONTROL.
Not to mention, uncc'able pets, even one cast on an enemy healer can seriously disrupt a battle in your teams favor. Trust me, ive been on the opposing end of theurgists that actually knew what they were doing and they made a very big difference.
Vs assisting opponents, PBT is worthless, for all realms, what is so wrong with being a nuker with a 10 dps damage add, base haste, base run speed, pretty decent nukes, pets that are unccable and cast from bolt range, 10s pbt?
Come on theurgists...there are many more classes that are in need of help than yours. Learn to use what you have.
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Qoaa
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bump
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AquaBlaze
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"Well, the theurgist "love" was in the Albion patch."
You mean that pathetic attempt to fix the Theurgist pets? Great...now our overly-expensive pets will mosey along a little bit farther, before putting it it's one or two swipes, then croaking. Any Theurg can tell you that casting pets at a 2000 range 1) takes forever, as the pet needs to walk to the target (which subtracts from its 20-30 sec life), and 2) does either little or no damage to the target.
And the Siege Bolt "fix"? Yay. Still useless. We now can do the equivolent of 1-2 ram swings every 5 minutes. I can sooo feel the uberness filtering through me...
The Theurgist "love" wasn't "love", nor a "fix". Hell, it wasn't even a band-aid. THAT was a Mythic asswipe, plain & simple. Mythic came along, took the failing Theurgists, and wiped their ass with them. THAT is what we got.
"Theurgists, please stop complaining, your class is far superior to my warden."
Umm...the jury has long since been out in the Earth Theurgist vs. Warden cases. Warden whomps major Theurgist ass. Any Theurgist that specs high enough in Earth for real PBT doesn't GET all the fun luxuries that you meantioned. However, a Warden gets a lotta group usefulness WHILE speccing their line, plus are on the hybrid scale, PLUS wear armor, PLUS, PLUS, PLUS...GAH!
Here's the simple explanation for you, based upon many, many reviews of other PBTers. This scale has been widely accepted, and trying to argue otherwise at this point is useless.
Supp. Runie = Enhance Warden > Earth Theurgist
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{old}Procifica
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Bubble Bot, PLAY A THEURGIST.
They are one of the most useless classes in the game, if not the most useless.
Wardens are VERY GOOD support classes, I should know, since my fiance plays one. A Warden's nuture line alone makes it superior to a Theurgist in almost every respect, then we throw in Scale Armor, Heals, style fatigue reduction, specable weapons, use of a shield...
All 3 Theurgist spell lines need at least one more spell to be viable.
MYTHIC: DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS. Otherwise, just delete the class and spread its spells elsewhere in Albion.
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joe1877
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Theurgist are the most overpowered class in the game, so stfu. Here is a typical encounter with one. Ae mezz, 4 air pets chain stun me to the point I can't move, DD,DD,DD and I'm dead. The air line is so overpowered that your enemy can't even fight back while getting nuked for 400 dmg every 1.5 seconds. If you can't beat any non-pet class in the game, then you just suck, plain and simple. Despite this, we have posters saying even the air line needs help to be viable.
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AquaBlaze
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OMG...did you _WANT_ people to know you got whomped by a Theurgist? LOL! Damn you must be gimped/retarded. Did you ever try MOVING? Have you ever tried GROUPING UP? (new concept for you, I'm sure) There are 1001 counters to the mighty 1 sec stun on the wind pet. If you really want to make things fair, make air pets proc snare with 10x (or more) duration and THEN we can talk about giving your dumb ass immunity.
Folks, here's a simple heads-up. You CANNOT use the words "Theurgist" and "overpowered" in the same sentence without sounding like a lobotomized monkey.
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Latric
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Wonder how many of these threads it will take before mythic listens to one?
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Hoirip
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Bump for Lots of good ideas in this thread. Albion has gone far too long without a spec that is desirable for high-spec PBT.
Oh yeah, and fix the chain stunning air pets, but give the stun longer duration to compensate for activating the player's immunity timer. No spell can incapacitate a player from extreme range like those pets-purge can fight off regular CC, but if one of those pets comes bearing down on you all you can do is run and hope the damnable thing dies (since you can't mez or root them).
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{old}Neslyn
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"Your nukes outdamage my melee"
Your heals are better than my...oh wait I don't get heals.
"you have stun (on air pets) ae root (even low ice spec) and ae mez (granted it dosent count for much) but that is THREE FORMS OF CROWD CONTROL."
Earth theurgists don't get those.
"Learn to use what you have."
I guess we have to since we've never gotten anything new for our class.
"Theurgist are the most overpowered class in the game, so stfu."
This is, of course, why theurgists dominate RVR standings. Oh wait, they don't
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{old}jakedomino
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"Theurgist are the most overpowered class in the game, so stfu."
Your are either utterly ignorant, a bald-faced liar, stoned out of your tree, or have never faced a mana chanter.
"Here is a typical encounter with one. Ae mezz, 4 air pets chain stun me to the point I can't move, DD,DD,DD and I'm dead."
Dude, three things: (1) chain stun was removed LONG ago; (2) that's an AIR theurg buring all his mana killing you; Earth theurgs, as we have been telling you, have zip; (3) something like that will happen to ANY tank going one on one in the open field vs. any reasonable caster. With a chanter it goes stun, permanent pet, DD, DD, DD, dead. (Or just stun, debuff, DD, DD dead).
"The air line is so overpowered that your enemy can't even fight back while getting nuked for 400 dmg every 1.5 seconds."
ROFL. What game are YOU playing? Air theurgs are a second rank mage; chanters and runies own air theurgs all night long.
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{old}jakedomino
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"Theurgist are the most overpowered class in the game, so stfu."
O master of ignorance, if you look up the RP stats you will see that theurgists as a class are in the bottom half of all 45+ characters in the game in RP, both in total RP and in average RP. Theurgists are not overpowered, they are BELOW AVERAGE.
It's a shame that people like you post nonsense like that. You remind me of the all the Mids posting, "But, wait...Left Axe really isn't THAT overpowered. Really. Trust me. Please?"
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Calindra
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I would like to see a baseline DD in the earth line. This would definitely help earth theurgists. It would also help the weak earth spec of wizards.
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{old}Neslyn
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"I would like to see a baseline DD in the earth line. This would definitely help earth theurgists."
Not really. Earth theurgists can get a useable baseline DD out of ice. And with the power concerns of PBT, just slapping a new DD onto the class isn't going to help things a lot. Of course, that's an issue for all PBT classes.
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{old}Flunkie
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Mythic designed the casting classes with 1 viable spec line per class. Thurgists have Air. Good luck getting help for earth.
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joe1877
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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aquablaze you are a dumbass. You can't run when you are chain stunned. You can't move. Thats the part about being overpowered. You just stand there and get chain stun and beat down, while the caster nukes you to death. If you can't beat someone who can't even fight back, then you are the worst player this game has ever seen. If the air pets didn't have 2000 casting and, and didn't take less than 4 seconds to reach you, it would be a different story. Seriously, if you are an air theurgist and you can't kill 90% of the classes in this game then you just suck.
And yes mana chanters are bull**** too.
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{old}jakedomino
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No, Joe, YOU are the moron. Theurgist pet chain stunning was removed in the 1.52 theurgist nerf patch. Go read the patch notes. ("Previously, the high chance of the stun proc firing in RvR combined with a lack of a recast timer made the pet able to chain stun RvR targets.")
Have you even been PLAYING since 1.52?
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joe1877
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dumbass. it was not removed. Have you ever played against one? The chain stun might have been removed against mobs. but it still remains against other players.
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AquaBlaze
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Umm...Joe? You already verified that you are a grade-A retard in your above post...not like you've stopped talking out of your ass now though. You CAN move, (albeit slightly stuttered at worst) you CAN fight back, you CAN just twiddle your thumbs and wait for the little gimps to die. So...my stoner Hibbie retard...STFU, and open the box before you try to make comments about the game, K?
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{old}jakedomino
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Chain stunning was removed from RvR in 1.52. You can stop lying anytime now, Joe.
Jake, who does play a theurgist now and then
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Demonic_Apparition
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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bump
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AquaBlaze
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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*cements thread to the top of the board*
E
L
B
U
M
P
O
!
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joe1877
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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yay I can move one step every 5 seconds or so. Forget fighting back. Cry more losers. If an air theurgist can't kill just about every class, they suck. You all suck. Get some skill or tactics or something. Again, if you can't kill a target who can't even fight back, you just suck. No love for you.
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{old}Banadan
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Bumpz0r........
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GoldManiac
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Just ignore the anonymous moron with 19 posts. We could fight him for 100 pages and he still wouldn't see the truth.
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{old}Procifica
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Joe, get a life. Theurgists are among the most underpowered classes in the game, and the earth line is BY FAR THE MOST USELESS CLASS LINE IN THE GAME.
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Threth
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Sorry guys... Mythic is too busy making Enchanters better. I think we can all agree Enchanters need the love more than any other class in DAoC.
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AquaBlaze
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Joe, will you please stop talking out of yoru asscheeks? Thanks.
Oh, yay...yes...Enchanters needed much more love than the Theurgist crap lines. Thanks Mythic.
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{old}jakedomino
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I have to say that Joe is the stupidest and most ignorant poster I have ever seen on these boards, and that's saying a lot. Joe, some time you need to play DOAC, in which chain stunning was removed in the 1.52 patch.
Earth theurgists need love bad.
All theurgists need to have their pet casting costs reduced dramatically.
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AquaBlaze
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Hey Kids! It's Bump Time!
^ UP ^ UP ^
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Big_Twinky
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BA DA BUMP
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Demonic_Apparition
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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bump
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{old}jakedomino
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/bump
Theurgist earth spec = worst spec line in the game
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{old}Grann_Tristan
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The only Earth Theurg's I know are PBT bots, nothing else.
That right there should tell you something.
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Gergyfo
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the chain stunning pets could use a nerf
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{old}mordred-player
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Some people never stop whining.
Earth thuerg could use some love is about it. Possibly trim the power cost of making pets to be lower %. I dont know but The thuergs I seen rarely have trouble cranking out about a dozen pets when needed even though I know the spell supposedly shouldnt allow you to get much more than what 8 because power cost is % based. Possibly increase the duration of the pets a little bit or possible allow the caster to have a mild amount of control over hte pets so they could just change targets for pets whos target dies as opposed to them just standing there till the timer expires.
Thuergs are a very solid casting class and even have great untily spells for melees, the common ice/air combo is an excellent combo powerful at that.
Any other isues within thuergs are more than likely "casters in general" issues.
*** I have always been in favor of a change that made the thuerg pets spawn AT THE TARGET not at the caster and needing to run to the target *** this might be overpowering with the way thuerg pets currently perform however.
OR maybe just make them like "bomber" pets where the pet is a one time DD that just has a graphic of the pet charging out to its target and when it hits it dissapates and inflicts a set DD amount.
Right now thuerg pets are like crappy dots, in alot of ways, neat concept however just not sure it was implmented quite right to be useful but not overpowered in rvr, where smart people unlike dumb mobs just avoid the pets.
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Qoaa
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bump
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Pranzer
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"I have to say that Joe is the stupidest and most ignorant poster I have ever seen on these boards, and that's saying a lot. Joe, some time you need to play DOAC, in which chain stunning was removed in the 1.52 patch.
Earth theurgists need love bad.
All theurgists need to have their pet casting costs reduced dramatically."
stfu you are a jeark for what you said espically since chain stunning from pets was never removed.
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AquaBlaze
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Please ignore the above said morons while I...
BUMP THE CRAP OUT OF THIS POST! MUAHAHA!
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AquaBlaze
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Page 2? Don't think so...
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{old}Daltarr
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Melee realm mage runemaster > Theurgist.
Earth line, wow what can we say. This line has sucked since day#1.
Ice line, wow what can we say. This line has sucked since day #1.
Air line, average at best.
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Heladus
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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"Thuergs are a very solid casting class and even have great untily spells for melees, the common ice/air combo is an excellent combo powerful at that."
What common ice/air combo ... I do not know a single Theurgist that is specced that way .. is this a dred spec?
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GoldManiac
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Nice sig Heladus. I did the same thing by rolling an ice wizard. I finally got all the siege abilities I was looking for.
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Heladus
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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(grins) Thank ya Gold and with the line respec they're giving us I'm going for the common air template ... still won't fix the real problems that Theurgists are having, but hell I'll have more fun in RvR.
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Sarumz
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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B
U
M
P
Earth spec line has been and is about to become even worse than all other lines in the game. PERIOD. =)
Sarumz 50 Theurgist <DoA> Lancelot
41 Ice / 35 Earth
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{old}Fedifensor
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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"I did the same thing by rolling an ice wizard. I finally got all the siege abilities I was looking for."
I made an earth theurgist for siege capability. A year and a half later, I'm still waiting...
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penman69
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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bump.
i played a theurgist for a year then levelled a nightshade to 50 while i waited for theurg fixes, levelled a druid to 42, a bunch of others to 35'ish for BG's got bored, quit, and theurgists STILL haven't had more than a few cosmetic tweaks. Yes the changes to ele's were needed and good - but more is needed.
Theurgists are the ONLY casters in the game to not have had a single new class spell since launch. Not one.
HEY MYTHIC - DO YOU EVEN KNOW THIS CLASS EXISTS??
Personally i take my hat off to those of you who stuck with the class...you're stubborn bastards.
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AquaBlaze
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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"Earth spec line has been and is about to become even worse than all other lines in the game."
Whoot! #1 Gimp! We're number 1!!!!!!
Haven't been this excited...well, haven't ever been this excited. :P
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The_Kierdaghs
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Do theurgist actually run out of power casting pets in RvR? I'd imagine they are dead before that. PBT needs a drastic power reduction for all three realms, earth theurgists get hit hard by this since the spells they use are power-hogs.
Air pets chain-stunning and decent nukes give that kind of spec'd theurgist the edge in RvR, but that's only one line out of three 
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Demonic_Apparition
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bump
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Akumakis
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/bump!
poor theurgists.
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{old}Nightmare1111
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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THERE ARE ONLY 3 ACTIVE EARTH THEURGISTS IN PERCIVAL. IS THAT NORMAL?!??!!?!
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Demonic_Apparition
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Yes thats perfectly normal..... its like that on every server. Actually thats almost above normal. Earth theurgists becoming endangered species and Ice becoming (it always was) extinct is just a part of life right now. It has been the norm for over a year now and still will be untill Mythic stops making classes better that dont deserve it, and starts fixing the hurting ones. But to Mythic, all they have proven to the Theurgist loyalists is that they care more about "dolla dolla bills yall" then their players who have put up with total shit for 2 years and about 300$. Why we still put up with it, who knows... maybe in hope Mythic will help us? I lost that hope a long time ago, I think what kept them playing is rolling new characters, which is such a shame to waste a whole class in albion over rerolls. I did not post this thread expecting Mythic to actually listen, the only thing they seem to listen to is money. Im posting this just to prove a few points. I have been suscribed to Mythic for 7 years, 7 freaking years since they started beta in MageStorm and Darkness Falls. In 7 years they have not rewarded any of the people who payed $10+ a year, supported their products, and kept food on their tables. For 5 years they just didn't listen to people, and when DAoC came out, they opened half an ear to the player base that would make them the most money. Thats why DAoC has always had classes that are great, and classes that just suck and are not enjoyable. Their really are no in betweens if you look at it, and it makes perfect sense. Their are still people playing their old games like SpellBinders: TNC, paying 10 bucks a month and they dont even get to play it because the freakin servers are never up. Mythic has so many thousands of suscribers and are making so much money, and they wont pay cent to keep up a server that supports only less then 100 people. Thats how cheap Mythic is and always have been. For 5 years Mythic did not pay any of their customer support reps, or their game GM's. It was all volunteer from already suscribing members, so actually they profited from that too. I wonder what the fuck they spend their money on, it definantly is not towards their customers. At least not the way it should be.
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Big_Twinky
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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^^ Ouch, paragraphs are your friend
/bump
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AquaBlaze
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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"THERE ARE ONLY 3 ACTIVE EARTH THEURGISTS IN PERCIVAL. IS THAT NORMAL?!??!!?!"
No...there should be half that amount...and none when 1.62 comes out. Hope ya'll weren't too fond of PBT, as that's gonna be dead too. Most Wind theurgists are even dropping that, going Wind/Ice.
Theurgists are dead ya'll. Time to reroll or cancel.
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Demonic_Apparition
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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bump
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{old}Aelie
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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bump
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v
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{old}Procifica
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Mythic will never read this, but here's my "bump" for the class.
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jonny290
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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To the top.
Some thoughts (cc'ed to Sanya):
-GTAoE or similar spell in earth line (yes, i know, it'd make us an earth
wizard....)
-Some form of CC (perhaps move spec AoE root to earth, spec AoE mez to ice and add a spec AoE stun to air to match pet effects?) in earth line
-Change pet cost from percentage to fixed value
-RA named something like Protection of the Summoned that would allow any group pulsing spells such as paladin chants, theurgist runspeed/PBT, minstrel speed, etc to have an effect on up to five casted pets, or the last five pets you cast if you have more on the battlefield.
The RA would cost 1/2/4/6/10 points. For each level, it covers one more pet. Level 1 covers your last pet, level 2 covers last two pets, level 3 covers last three pets, etc.
This would aid in the viability of pets, currently touted as the earth theurgist's sole method of spec damage output, on the RvR battlefield. I don't see why this couldn't be a passive RA with a cost of 6 points or so, but it'd also work as a one-level active RA with 2 minute duration / 15 minute recast timer.
-Fix attack speed debuff so that it doesn't increase damage output when somebody is at the haste cap, is debuffed, and is still at the haste cap.
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{old}Znail-2
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Quote:
--------------------------------------------
-RA named something like Protection of the Summoned that would allow any group pulsing spells such as paladin chants, theurgist runspeed/PBT, minstrel speed, etc to have an effect on up to five casted pets, or the last five pets you cast if you have more on the battlefield.
--------------------------------------------
Pets already get the benifit of group spells by default, so no need for any RA.
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Demonic_Apparition
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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bump
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{old}Daltarr
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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The Theurgist, that other caster of Dark Age of Camelot. I give Mythic a B for a good attempt at drawing up a unique type of elemental caster in the Theurg. They also get a freaking F for making all those unique 'elemental' abilities of the Theurg suck royally.
Melee realm mage runemaster > Theurgist. Why? Hell if I know.
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Demonic_Apparition
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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bump
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AquaBlaze
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Here's to praying you remove your head from your ass at the last minute Mythic...
BUMP
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Demonic_Apparition
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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keep this on the front page
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{old}Procifica
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Subject:
Theurgists: They need some loving..
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How to improve a Theurgist:
Earth Spec:
Add GTAoE. Hibernia has two PBAoE classes, why shouldn't Albion have 2 GTAoE ones? Albion is the more defensive oriented realm, and GTAoE is a defensive oriented spell.
Ice Spec:
Add Damage and Snare (AoE). This is lacking in Albion and gives the Ice Theurgist something to distinguish it from an Ice Wizard.
Air Spec:
Add either a specline stun (similar to Hib casters baseline), specline single target mezz (similar to Mentalist/Spiritmaster), or Instant AoE Mezz (similar to Healer/Bard). All of these are lacking in Albion in one form or another, compared to at least one of the other realms, if not both.
Implementing these for a Theurgist gives each line one more spell, and each gives something which fits the spell line, as well as something which the realm of Albion as a whole could use.
Mythic, please implement these for the Theurgist or something along similar lines.
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{old}SuperSoaker
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Theurgists are fine. if you want new content, go make another class.
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AquaBlaze
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"Theurgists are fine. if you want new content, go make another class."
Yet again, the human personification of the reason for birth control appears. SHUT UP. Do I really NEED to count the oh-so-many ways Theurgists suck AGAIN? No. Scroll up and read, or God forbid you actually play the game.
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{old}jakedomino
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1. Theurg pets need to have a fixed cost, not cost a % of the caster's power.
2. Theurg mez range needs to be 1500, the same as every other mez in the game (the shorter range is blatant anti-Albion prejudice)
3. The earthe theurg line needs a DD and a GTAOE. Right now it has NOTHING in it except for PBT, a useless debuff, and a crummy, expensive pet.
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AquaBlaze
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BUMPO...lol, anyone want to guess how many folks /level a Theurgist? $50 says its in the single-digits. ;P
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{old}EtherealTsunami
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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<---- bumpos inexpertious
non-wind thuerg ---> maximus gimpicus
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{old}nukem888
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I am not shure what can be done to help you guys.Your pets seem worthless people can out run them easly.
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GoldManiac
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I've got nothing left to say, except I love my ice wizard and his siege capabilites . . . oops, the theurgist was supposed to be the siege master, wasn't he?
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AquaBlaze
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Mythic can first start helping Theurgists by locking their accounts. We're a buncha die-hard freaks, and really need a good swift kick in the @$$ to realize our class is dead.
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Pritcon
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You Almost think they want us to stop playing our Albion toons and try out the other realms. Forced population control.
Please forgive me.
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{old}fludane
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BUMP
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Demonic_Apparition
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bump
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{old}Mithandyr
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i know nobody is gonna read this far, even i didnt, but one thing i didnt see alot of people commenting on is the unique RA. ok, ok, so some calsses may have totally broken ones, but ours costs 10 points and does less damage than beating on the door with our staff for 5 minutes would, and has been proven. i currently have a 24 theurg im lving up, going 45 earth just to break the curve, as i love to do, but please, for the love of little bunnies and all that is holy, give earth something. last i counted, we get a crappy speed debuff, a mana-sucking, now nerfed, PBT, and a crappy 29 sec pet that you have to be in about half of bolt range to cast and do anything, and said pet takes 12% of our total mana pool to cast. forgive me if im wrong, but alot of perfectly great, sometimes even "I Win" spells, take a bit less than 12% power. given focus, int, and +pow stuff, id say you could work about any other non-set cost spell down below 5%, and thats pretty conservative. so in short, we have to have serinity 3 just to be an effective bot, and on top of that you give us one of the crappiest damage spells in the game which costs more than double what some of the best spells in the game would cost? oh well...
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Xxtayce
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Ice Theurgist:
Make the power cost the same as the air nukes, give a higher damage nuke at 50. (It's way less damage than the 45 air nuke, c'mon!) Fix ice pets' resist rates on nukes, it's currently so silly that why even bother casting them, when they are the easiest to outrun?
Earth Theurgist:
Please please give them something! In the same boat as Earth Wizzies here. Why not put the base fire nuke in base earth and be done with it? Oh yeah, fix power costs on a chant that is basically negated with the new archer lovin'.
Didn't we see about 5 threads 15+ pages long, just like this, over the past month, with no response? Sad...
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Axauv
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bumpity
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{old}Mithandyr
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Man i wonder why mythic hates theurgs so much. i mean... dang. TL has been going all out since forever and... nothing.
5+ page threads, usually weekly, and... nothing.
every player complaining with good reason and... nothing.
not a single cry for /nerf theurgs, whereas ive heard cries for /nerf about everything else, and... nothing.
a populace of 1-2 ice theurgs and worldwide earth theurgs in the double digits, and... nothing.
Now, they decide to try out some class balance. woohoo, class balance patch! finally some theurg lubbins!
umm.. didnt see the theurg lubbins on the patch notes... guess they forgot them.
oh wow, they are finally fixing those poor archers, they were almost as gimp as us.
oh, doh, what an oversight, that archer fix is actually gonna nerf us, rofl, i bet they take that out quick
oh wait, they arent takin it out?
oh well, at least we should get something to make up for it, plus the class balance!
oh... i dont see any class balance yet...
oh, they arent giving us anything to make up for it...
oh, now they are making arrows not only penetrate, but pop BT...
wow, the patch went live, and nothing. guess its time to wait another year.
Mythic, its obvious you dont give a **** about theurgs, or the poor people who play them, so why not just boot us all? maybe delete our theurgs? take the class out of the game, as it is its just feeding the other people a couple rp? hey, it would help the realm, since it seems most of us are such diehards that several years with... nothing hasnt knocked us out. oh well...
(edit for general cohesiveness and a touch of spelling, its kinda late)
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Demonic_Apparition
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bump
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Caepinus
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UP
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AquaBlaze
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Bumpity...
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{old}Mithandyr
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bump
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GoldManiac
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Let's hope that 1.63 is the "we're sorry we nerfed pbt, here's some stuff" patch.
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Heladus
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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/e shrugs
I'm an air wizard now so whatever they do to Earth doesn't really effect me any longer ... of course I still have the 10 second bubble so I hope whatever they add has at least low level versions so I can have some new toys ... then again that assumes they will add something.
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Latric
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Double the pet life span. Raise the level onf the procs so they are not constantly resisted at 50. Make the !@#$% Ice pet actually cast.
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{old}Mithandyr
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bump maybe if we keep this on the front page someone will see it... lol
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Latric
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Well it only took a year of this to get us longer range cc proff pets. There is hope.
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{old}Incinerator_Bedevere
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/bump
The ONLY thing i see Earth Theurgs doing anymore is farming in DF. The Archer changes ( which i will be the first to say were needed) hit theurgs the hardest by far.
keep bumped.
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GoldManiac
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Our problem is we just sit here and take the punishment. Then we politely ask for fixes. Then Mythic ignores us. That has been the cycle since the begining of the game.
Meanwhile classes that cry and whine and ask for the world get moderate help. I'm tired of this garbage, but will sit here like a good little theurgist.
Mythic, remember us? The only caster in the game never to get a new spell. The class with the fewest spells in each line and overall. And the class that gets hit with an inderect or direct nerf almost every patch.
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Ylistra
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Theurgist's need love!
Suggestions:
Reasonable pet casting cost.
Wind-baseline DOT/DD.
Castable stun & AOE stun.
Dreamworld:
Stationary one-shot PBAoE pet. (i.e. landmine pet)
Melee pet w/ bonus against doors/siege (i.e. siege ram pet)
Fire-and-forget pet.
Single long durration pet.
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{old}Mithandyr
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badabump
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{old}fludane
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Bumpidybumpbumpbump
Mezz range 1500
DD spell to earth line
GTAOE to earth
Ice DD with debuff
Wind DD with snare
Bumpbumpbumpidy
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{old}Daltarr
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Theurgists...that other caster of DAoC. Nobody really knows what they do. Nobody really knows how they fit in. Every Hib and Mid loves em for their easy RP though. They'd wish every Alb were a theurgists.
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AquaBlaze
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"Let's hope that 1.63 is the "we're sorry we nerfed pbt, here's some stuff" patch."
Naw...1.63 will be the "we'll unnerf a tiny bit on PBT nerf, consider yourself loved for the rest of the year" patch. Or the "no PBT fix yet, resume playing with your sad character alone in RvR" patch.
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AquaBlaze
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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We're here to bump
*CLAP*
YOU UP!
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AquaBlaze
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Good Morning Camelot!
*Morning BUMP*
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GoldManiac
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/wave Mythic. We're still here.
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Barath-Xap
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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I'm not really sure they *can* give something good to the earth theurg line at this stage of the game. Rather than beef up the earth line like they should've done in the first place, mythic gave albs defensive abilities like minstrel ablative chant, BoF, and Soldier's Baracade.
Now if they suddenly make earth line attractive for theurgists to spec, won't it throw realm balance even more out of whack? I feel for any class that has an undesirable spec line (*cough*summon SM), but that line should've been fixed long ago before these extra abilities were added to the realm. Seems that it is too late now unless mythic is going to "balance" things more by giving the other realms similar defensive RAs/abilities.
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quyesial
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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All the wind line needs is to have the mez range normalized with EVERY OTHER secondary mez in the game.
At least a real explanation should come from Mythic about why they think that having a 1500 range ghetto AE mez in the wind line would be overpowering. (Since after a year of lobbying, it seems that they think that having a normal range ghetto ae mez and a spec dd in the same spec line would be overpowering)
Earth needs--to be brought up to relative par with the runie supression spec. Give the earth line a 180 snare + DD like the suppression line has, and earth theurgs would be happy.
Ice needs--Make the dd a dd+resist or something, and put in a mild GTAE or something. Fix the ice pets so they are "cast only" and can't be goaded into melee mode by casting instas and cc spells on them. Fix the problem with the game engine that treats snare the same as root, so they are on the same timer. Remove snare effects from all immunity timers.
Give all theurg pets the 35% damage bonus that DOTs and "controllable pets" got in spring of last year. Theurg pets are either pets, or DOTs, don't give them the disadvantages of both, but not give them the advantages as well.
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{old}jakedomino
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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/bump for much-needed theurgist love
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KnumbKnuts
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Yea,
I rolled an earth theurg cuz I thought "this sucker is at the low point, he'll get love, not a nerf."
Doh! NERFED! Thank you, drive through.
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Big_Twinky
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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>>
Didn't we see about 5 threads 15+ pages long, just like this, over the past month, with no response?
<<
That thread was locked.
/bump for theurgists. We have been crying for too long. This is totally ludicrous to have a class with such BAD and barren spec lines.
Add a GTAE to the earth line
Add a single stun in the Air line
Add an AE DD + Snare in the Ice line
Make a different version of the air and earth pets in that this one, when cast, appears at the target’s feet. Put it on a 10 sec recast timer. Whatever.
Add a siege DoT in the ice line. This DoT would affect doors and siege equipement. It would tick for xx amount for 6 ticks.
Give a bigger variety of pets. The VAST majority of the Animist pets were suggestions that were given on the THEURGIST board. They were things that the theurgists had thought about to make their bad class better. These suggestions were taken and molded into a new class and given to another realm.
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GoldManiac
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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More great suggestions. If Mythic gave us just 1% of what we suggested, we wouldn't need these large threads.
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Shadowmage
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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up I say up!
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{old}jakedomino
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"Add a GTAE to the earth line
Add a single stun in the Air line
Add an AE DD + Snare in the Ice line
Make a different version of the air and earth pets in that this one, when cast, appears at the target’s feet. Put it on a 10 sec recast timer. Whatever.
Add a siege DoT in the ice line. This DoT would affect doors and siege equipement. It would tick for xx amount for 6 ticks.
Give a bigger variety of pets. The VAST majority of the Animist pets were suggestions that were given on the THEURGIST board. They were things that the theurgists had thought about to make their bad class better. These suggestions were taken and molded into a new class and given to another realm."
Amen. I wish Mythic would listen.
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Barath-Xap
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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"Give a bigger variety of pets. The VAST majority of the Animist pets were suggestions that were given on the THEURGIST board. They were things that the theurgists had thought about to make their bad class better."
That's funny. The exact same thing happened with Spiritmaster pets ... almost all of the things suggested on the boards to help the struggling spiritmaster class was given to Bonedancers.
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Jjix
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Yep, zerkers got some major love this patch.
As I recall, theurgists got major love just a few patches ago. How much do you want?
Remember, as soon as you class becomes uber, you will get nerfed into puddy. Be careful for what you wish for.
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quyesial
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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bump
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{old}Mithandyr
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... we got major love? what? we got more range for people to see our pets coming and run? no cc? this is all great, cept that most of the time the pets never make it to the target, they cost way too much power, and they do pathetic damage. major love would be putting theurgs up to where all the other classes are, giving them 3 new useful spell lines in each spec, boost dmg on our RA, and give us something to compensate for the pbt nerf.
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soccervh
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Give earth either
gtae dots
ae stun
cold debuff.
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{old}Mithandyr
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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bump...
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jaythegamerguy
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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much love for theurgists
i play a runemaster and thank god everyday that midgard only has 3 casters (SI included). That means that all of the neato abilities casters get in DAOC are on either a runie or SM. I feel sorry for the albs because u have like 7 casters and everything is so spread out =(
I get to nuke, or PBT, or bolt. Nice options. Theurgs don't quite have this comfort.
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Tavarez_DAOC
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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You poor deluded fools.
If you think that Animists are an improvement on the design of Theurgists, you need to quit your armchair Game Developing.
Animists are the least played class in the game for a lot of good reasons. They can be a frustrating class to play and require a patience and a learning curve to understand how to play them effectively.
And even then, they are still in a semi beta state with plenty of idiosyncratic bugs that may never be completely fixed.
Animists and theurgists share the same problems in many ways.
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{old}Aelie
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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bump
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Elvana
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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/Bump some new spells for Earth Theugists.
Fix the pathing on Ice pets as well.
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{old}Midgard1.62
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Earth Theurgs do need loving. I leveled a Earth Theurg to 50 and would have to agree that the spell line is seriously lacking.
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AquaBlaze
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"As I recall, theurgists got major love just a few patches ago. How much do you want?"
Did you even open the DAoC box, you 'tard? We didn't get JACK. Siege Bolt, the completely useless RA...has been "fixed" to be completely useless. Pets that're useless & huge mana drains...have been fixed to be still a wandering pile of crap. And now PBT...has been "fixed" to be useless.
Yea...major love. Play the game moron.
"Earth Theurgs do need loving. I leveled a Earth Theurg to 50 and would have to agree that the spell line is seriously lacking."
Getting power-leveled does NOT count in judging a class being effective. Any moron (like yourself) can level a class up to 50. Try taking that Level 50 Earth Theurgist gimp out to the RvR, and see how laughably useless we are.
Plus, given that your sig has Midguard on it, and you haven't posted worth a who-ha-diddly, you must either be a troll, or an uber newb. In either case...
SHUT UP.
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jonny290
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With all due respect, it's my opinion that Theurgists are the best casters in the game right now. Even Earth theurgists.
Why? They have pets. Pets are helping the to-hit problems TREMENDOUSLY on epic-ish mobs, from sents all the way up to Sidi mobs. I agree that our class needs some major upgrading, especially earth, but still...
Just realize that you, right now, have the power to make those level 67 mobs die in half the time - dump a power bar full of pets, and sit down and watch your tanks and casters start to land at rates closer to pre-patch levels.
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GoldManiac
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And that will help me in RVR how?
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jonny290
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I wasn't saying that it's going to help RvR. I was simply stating that we're not the worst class in the game. Maybe if you removed that <Retired> flag and gave it a shot, you'd find redeeming value in some sort of activity with your theurgist. This is my first high-level (getting 50 tonight, woo), but even I realize that a class's role shifts.
But yes, earth theurgists need major bumps to their spec line.
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AquaBlaze
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"With all due respect, it's my opinion that Theurgists are the best casters in the game right now. Even Earth theurgists.
Why? They have pets. Pets are helping the to-hit problems TREMENDOUSLY on epic-ish mobs, from sents all the way up to Sidi mobs."
I hate to break it to you newb, but the end-game here ISN'T PvE. Sure, you rolled a terrific PvE bot, but will suck uber beans in the REAL game...RvR.
Best caster in the game my ass...ever see an enchanter? Or hell, even a wizard? Those classes could fart & out-perform anything a Theurgist could do in the battlefield.
It's great that your happy with staying in the PvE environment. You really should've just played Everquest, or some other carebear MMORPG. But to say that our class is "great"...hell, even "ok", you are full of it. So, sit down, shut up, resume playing in that tiny box of yours. Those that actually want to play the game deserve a chance at their fare share of RPs.
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GoldManiac
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Aquablaze seems to be getting very bitter, and I can't blame him. I've seen many a good theurgist quit this game in a fit of frustration. Done it a few times myself, but I decided to come back each time for some reason (Spellcraft, SI). Next time will be my last time.
But I will be around for a while longer because I am loving my siege caster - my ice wizard.
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{old}Procifica
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Quote:
Add a GTAE to the earth line
Add a single stun in the Air line
Add an AE DD + Snare in the Ice line
Pretty much the same things I suggested back on page 6 of this thread, though I gave several options to fix the Air line.
Mythic: Theurgists have the fewest spells in the game. They have received NO NEW SPELLS since release. Fix Theurgists, or just delete them from Albion and disperse their abilities elsewhere.
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{old}Aelie
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I've got THE solution
Buy a second account, PL a little clerc (1 or 2 days played in barrow sidi and avalon and no need 2 pc).
Then life will be much better
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GoldManiac
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All having a buffbot will do is give you the equivalent of a free Aug Acuity/Aug dex, but keep in mind that most of the time you group you would have had mid level buffs anyway.
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{old}fludane
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Theurgist ice line is a joke... i mean really ridiculous.
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Demonic_Apparition
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"Yep, zerkers got some major love this patch.
As I recall, theurgists got major love just a few patches ago. How much do you want?
Remember, as soon as you class becomes uber, you will get nerfed into puddy. Be careful for what you wish for. "
well I don't wanna be mean, but Jjix was being sarcastic... use the context clues in the first sentance, he mentions zerker love (by love he means nerfs in a sarcastic way), and he says the same about theurgist (pbt nerf). All he is saying is how much more do we want to be nerfed... if we got something good people might complain then we would become worse.
Problem with that is, we cant become worse...
Just wanted to clear that up.... bump
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Axauv
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If you add the spells for all spec lines of ALL casters you get the following:
Theurgist spells TOTAL: 17 (including pbt, dmg add, haste, 2 DDs, one low range mez, and practical joke pets)
Runemaster: 25 (including debuff for own dmg, ground target, dmg add, pbt, DD, bolts, range AE, nearsight)
Enchanter: 23 (including stun, 2 DDs, pbae, debuff own dmg, pet, pet buffs, dmg add, dmg shield)
Spritmaster: 30 (including DD, debuffs, pet, pet buffs, pbae, rez, debuffs)
Bonedancer: 28 (including pets, pet buffs, snare, dots, baseline DD, lifetap)
Mentalist: 19 (including heals, HoT, dots, 2 DDs, AE DD, charm, mez, stun, power regen, dmg shield)
Eldritch: 27 (including dmg shield, stun, gtae, bolts, stun, DD, DD and snare, disease, nearsight)
Necromancer: 23 (including pet, insta spells, lifetaps, power taps, DD, dots, AE, pbae, pet buffs, realm abs buff)
Sorceror: 31 (including charm, mez, DD, dots, debuffs, power regen, mez debuffer, lifetap)
Animist: 28 (including pets, DD, pet buffs, pbae, snare, turret pets, lifetap)
Cabalist: 33 (including snare, debuffs, pet, pet buffs, lifetaps, dots, nearsight)
Wizard: 21 (including bolts, DD, AE DD, dmg add, dmg shield, GTAE)
As you can see, theurgist is at the BOTTOM of the entire heap when it comes to spell selection; with TWO of the theurgist spec lines yielding only THREE SPELL CHOICES EACH.
The mentalist comes in second with only 19 spells; but here is a character with buffs, stacking dots, heal over time, and power regen in the SAME SPEC LINE.
Theurgists are the forgotten characters, the lost casters that are a threat to no one anywhere. I have never been killed by theurgist pets even on alts; and I frankly doubt my escaping that fate is anything to be surprised about. I believe Mythic will fix theurgists; and I believe it can be done easily without making them an unbalanced FOTM.
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GoldManiac
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200 posts now. You have all the data in this thread Mythic. Read it over, ignore the spam and flames from both sides and read the data. This should not be a difficult decision.
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Big_Twinky
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>>
You poor deluded fools.
If you think that Animists are an improvement on the design of Theurgists, you need to quit your armchair Game Developing.
Animists are the least played class in the game for a lot of good reasons. They can be a frustrating class to play and require a patience and a learning curve to understand how to play them effectively.
And even then, they are still in a semi beta state with plenty of idiosyncratic bugs that may never be completely fixed.
Animists and theurgists share the same problems in many ways.
<<
Honestly, I don’t give a crap about how gimpy Animists are. If you don’t like them, make a thread about it posting ideas on how to fix them (like we are doing to Theurgists). I posted that the ideas given for Theurgists by Theurgists on this board (and probably others) were taken and made into a new class.
No where did I ever say that Animist are better than theurgists or an improved version of. The fact that the ideas given by the theurgist community were badly implemented and poorly designed is a totally different topic.
I totally agree that both classes have similar problems, they are both gimpy. Problem is that Theurgists have been waiting a whole year more than Animists for any REALISTIC fix.
So before calling people fools, please try to understand what the people mean. You may end up looking like the fool. (not a flame, just a warning )
Unfortunatly, its not just a matter of how many bumps, posts or how many times people will say it. I seriously doubt that after almost 2 years, nothing substantial has been done to theurgists. It’s sad to see a class be in the shape it is in 2 years after launch and not see ANY word from Mythic on the subject.
Hunters used to be known as a bad, gimpy class. They got some major tweaking done to help them out. I cant comment if the class is better off, but I don’t see “Save the Hunters†posts like I did a year ago.
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Crandell
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My earth theurg is now a bot, thanks mythic. Its a waste of time to even bother going out in rvr, I have no chance of being able to survive, there is no reason for me to help in keep defense or offense because I can't do a thing. Siege masters we are NOT! Wind theurgs are the only spec you can go with and frankly if you wanted to make theurgs be a one spec puppy then you should have never created earth and ice, they are both jokes.
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Big_Twinky
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ba da bump
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{old}jakedomino
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/bump for theurg fixes
The class needs help NOW!
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Demonic_Apparition
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bump
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GoldManiac
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Masters of siege!!!
<Slowly begins to lose his mind>
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Pritcon
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Do you really want Mythic to do Anything? Those last tweaks where NEVER asked for, Not by any of our TL's, Not by the theurgists community.
Think of something from left field, that's what they will do to us.
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AquaBlaze
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Yea...so I am kinda gettin' bitter. It really sucks having your character's head stepped on every patch day. Then, after all is nerfed and done, I come to ignorant posters who say "Theugists are fine, shut up"...well, that really just boils it.
So, sorry to those I've blown up on, however, I think I'll keep feelin' this testy until Mythic decides to either do something with this class, or *%#@ing delete it already.
And finally, yes, all the evidence is out there that Theurgists are the uber suck. Mythic just needs to stop playing Hellen Keller and fix us already. But, one thing I learned from the OJ trial out here in LA, evidence still doesn't mean a damn thing. ^_^
FIX US MYTHIC, I KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE!!!...er...no I don't. Damn.
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{old}Procifica
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Theurgists need improvement, a /bump for Theurgists.
Out in BG3 today with my BM, felt bad for the poor theurg spamming Air pets at me...
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Syndire
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Theurgists need !no loving! whatsoever with their chain stunning pets. Its impossible to beat them and they already had pet buffs in the last patch. So lemme think, oh yeah, cry me a river.
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Demonic_Apparition
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"Theurgists need !no loving! whatsoever with their chain stunning pets. Its impossible to beat them and they already had pet buffs in the last patch. So lemme think, oh yeah, cry me a river. "
haha funny how this post is focused on earth and ice (66% of the theurgists abilities) not wind. People still can not read. And fyi, if your getting chain stunned, your either playing on a pvp server, or your a low level noob. Also there is this thing called running, and all you really need to run for is a few seconds before any "chain stunning" pets will die before they can "chain stun" you.. its called brains. quickcastable stuns that other realms get are not as avoidable.
Cry me a river? thats a real original one. Makes you funny and cool at the same time eh? Must be a fan of the BackStreat Boys too.
/bump
**edit**
lol just checked your signature:
50 Hunter (sold) • 44 Runemaster • 41 Shaman
Nelo - 24 Runemaster • Marionete - 24 Shaman • Sleipneir - 24 Hunter
Baromier - 20 Warrior (800 AC) • Sunari - 20 Shadowblade
thats funny, not one character over 45.. I can see why your having trouble. And a buncha BG characters where pets still have not become completely useless because of the level percentage. Oh wait, you did have a 50, but you sold it. Too bad.. but the funny thing is your 44 runemaster could still bolt any earth theurgist to hell, or nuke me to hell of your darkness.
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GoldManiac
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Ignore the moron and keep going.
If I dump more than 60% of my power into 5 pets (required minimum to chain stun) thenh hell yes, I should be able to kill one person.
I kill ENTIRE GROUPS with my ice wizard and pbaoe damage with LESS POWER. Get a clue.
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AquaBlaze
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Naw...I think Backstreet boys are too outta this loser's range. I'm pretty sure he's more into Sesame Street, or he's "chillin'" with Barney.
Yea, I bet chain stunning is really annoying...for a 'tard like you. Honestly, there are a range of things to do against those weak things. You choose to bend over and take it up the rear...and folks are supposed to feel sorry for you? Again, that's just plain stupid.
And yes, most of these threads are dealing with the two dead spec lines to Theurgists. Lord knows my Earth Theurgist can't chain stun, or let alone spam multitudes of pets with the high cost of (the now useless) 6 sec PBT. Hell, even air is slightly lacking in damage/utility, and could use slight tweakage up. All three lines to the Theurgist need to be re-evaluated, and need some massive fixes NOW.
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Big_Twinky
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I love it when people post stuff like he did. Its a free bump for the cause. He is essentially taking the thread from the bottom of the page (because he never gets by page 1) and puts it at the top for all to see.
So thanks for the bump. No real need to defend the ideas and problems with the class. No need for us to explain them to you, but please, keep coming back and bumping the post...
some people are such lemmings and blindly follow without thinking.
Here is to hope that theurgists get some help in 1.63
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Silverleaf90
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I agree, a theurgist is my first toon, now at level 46 I nothing more then combat support. I buff and pbt but my DD is very weak. If I cast a pet I get yelled at for exp leaching. In RvR, my pets are go for little more then minor disrupting of a foe. When I first rolled the toon, I was under the impression I would be a major force in sieging, that has not been the case at all. A GTAOE would be nice, or a seige bolt in the earth line would be cool.
Thanks,
Silver
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Big_Twinky
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I like the idea of putting the Siege Bolt into the earth line. And then give Theurgists a different unique RA.
And yes, GTAE should of been a theurgist spell and NOT a wizard spell.
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Shadowmage
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up you go my friend.
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Axauv
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/bump
worst class in the game, fix them please.
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Crandell
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I've noticed that the only thing people can say is that the air pets are so good and they chain stun, i'm sorry But I have never seen out in odin or emain or my frotier my air pets chain stunning anyone from getting to me and putting death on me, if your only arguement is air pets then you need to move it along.
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Balthar_IV
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Theurgist need love! Bump
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{old}Telidor
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/Bump
All we ask is utility. The begining guide mentioned we were able to assist with keep assults/defence in so many words, i dont think seige bolt is the answer. I have posted it before but my idea is.
GTAOE that does 1/2 what the equiv wiz but does 4X the amount to seige equip doors.
And a new Idea.
OR how bout if you target your pet (earth only) on a friendly keep. It would add X amount to the doors hip as temp hip depending on level of earth and level of pet used. The extra hip could be on a timer base of X amount.
Verick
-shamlessly stalking sorc for more crack
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Crandell
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/bump
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{old}Rokar
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For the love that is all sacred and Holy FIX THEURGISTS!!!!!!!!
In fact most (not all) of the casters are beening put down FAR too easily. Sure we need to be put down fast because of the high damage we can deal out (Except theurgists, AND the fact most of our damage is resisted :You hit for 32 (-320)" Gimmie a break!) But How can we be putting out this "high damage" if we are face down in the dirt 98.9% of the time? Come on all we want is a chance in RvR Oh well time for another person to roll ANOTHER stealther.....
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Demonic_Apparition
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booooooomp
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Fabersham
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/bump
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Crandell
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I think i'm one of the last earth theurgs on my server. so sad.
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GoldManiac
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I'll be rolling an earth theurgist - on my second account - as a bot.
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Axauv
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Only caster my shaman could kill in his sleep lol; the theurgist.
Either fix theurgists or give them /quickcast sprint lol
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Crandell
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Bump I mean really I just did a /who Theurg On guinevere at 8pm, prime time, about 2800 people on the server and out of that only 21 people were theurgs, now i'm not really that bright since I rolled a earth theurg to begin with but I mean when there are only 21 people playing one class at prime time when there were
1. 70 clerics
2. 61 frair
3. 47 minstril
4. 34 cabalist
5. 66 infil
6. 35 reavers
I mean those are just a few of what i did /who on but really no one plays these things and if they do they are wind spec why even bother with earth and ice just combine them all and let us at least enjoy throwing our money away.
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{old}fludane
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bumpah
i think our ice line needs something unique which can really differentiate and identify us as siege master.
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{old}fludane
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would it make sense if:
-Air nuke has a given/small percentage of snare.
-Ice nuke comes with a percentage of debuff.
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GoldManiac
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I do a /who theurgist 46-50 all the time (also on guinevere). I pick this range, because that is the range of eligiblity for loot on a Sidi raid. There are anywhere from 5-15 level 50 theurgists on at a given time with 1-5 level 46-49. Theurgist is my favorite character for Sidi raids not because of his abilities, but because of my odds of getting a drop.
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motowntheta
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Theres a difference between RvR played earth theurgists and PvE bot earth theurgists just in the same way as RvR played rejuv clerics and RvR bot enhance clerics .... a shame that.
I'm sure I'm probably the only RvR 'Played' Earth Theurgist on Excalibur
Anyway just a small /bump
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{old}jakedomino
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/bump for help for the worst caster class in the game
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leonheart00
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Earth Theu is the best class...
for a bot who follow you. It needs no care at all. Best bot for melee class 
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BrockmooreWallace
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Something, anything...
- Siege Elementals
- GTAOE in Earth Line
- Siege Equipments Buffs and Debuffs
- Double the damage Siege Bolt does, yes I have Siege Bolt. :/
- Make our Elementals Insta cast with a timer
- DD spell in Earth Line
- DoT in Earth Line
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{old}fludane
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help theurgz!
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{old}MrNavon
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I think the idea of making an Earth Theurg a powerful siege class is a good one. Many of the ideas in this thread for that are very good. You only need to implement a couple of them to make an Earth Theurg an actively played class instead of a PBT Bot.
Besides, would it really be overpowering to have GTAE available in two places in Alb? Especially with it in two weak spec lines?
Wind Theurgs are obviously nukers with some utility (weak mez, 10 sec PBT, run speed, buffs). Already a decent spec, any additions to the other lines would have some small benefit to Wind Theurgs so they probably don't need any direct help.
What I'm not sure of is what to do with Ice theurgs. They have mediocre damage and mediocre CC (full range and duration, but a root doesn't help a caster when your rooted opponents can still attack you at range and interrupt your casting).
I'm not sure if any of these would be the right fit:
1) AE Damage (a wizards domain, and only clear role that they can do better than anyone else)
2) Better single target damage (maybe more utility damage options like DD/Debuff. Would still leave Theurgs with weak offensive options in this spec. Full DD damage is the domain of wind theurgs.)
3) More CC (Ok, obviously a bad idea....)
4) More utility (AE dex/qui or Str/Con debuffs? Resist debuffs?)
5) More buffs (something defense related that would help tanks in the field. Wouldn't help the bot situation much though)
Whatever the fix, it should be in line with the concept that Theurgists are part of the Defenders of Albion and fight in the field next to Armsman, Scouts, and Friars. The PBT fits with this, as well as their beneficial buffs (damage add and haste). Would be nice to see the class concept included in the fix.
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{old}Kaladim
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/bump cause theurgists have been ignored too long
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GoldManiac
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Any boost for theurgists would be a good start. Come on 1.63
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Crandell
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bump
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Gilimyr
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How about a 50% cold debuff in the earth line?
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Locrian_Mode
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have pets regen a bit of mana when they die,
or put pets on a conc system where you get conc back when a pet dies.
(good idea from earlier in the thread)
help the theu!
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cabbyman
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I woulnd't mind a castable monkey, so while I'm running pbt I could play an accordian and have my monkey dance for the enjoyment of all around!
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Latric
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Has one of these theurgist threads reached a 1000 posts yet?
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Crandell
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I'm sure if you added up all the theurg threads you would by pass all the scout whines, so I figure we should be getting love pretty soon since mythic listens to whomever whines the most, I mean god forbid if they actually just look at theurgs, here is an idea mythic, go play an earth theurg or ice theurg in rvr, i'm not talking about one you create with all the best stuff and RR10 with best RA's i'm talking go create a lvl 50 like what most of us have and see how long you last, see how fun it is.
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74orgun
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Before you get love , go back at the end of the line , you where given 2000 pet range , wait your turn until every class get love
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{old}jakedomino
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What a moron. The class wasn't fixed AT ALL and it still sucks canal water.
The earth spec line remains the worst spec line in the game, theurg pets still cost a % of power instead of a fixed cost, the theurg mez is still shorter in range than that of every other class, theurg pets still take to long to reach their targets, theurg pets still die too quickly...all this is why theurgs still need love NOW.
Theurgs are the worst caster class in the game, and the theurg earth spec line is the worst spec line in the game.
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Big_Twinky
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>>>have pets regen a bit of mana when they die<<<
That’s a cool idea. I like it.
>>Has one of these theurgist threads reached a 1000 posts yet?<<
The last one that almost did got locked!
74… they can have that love back. All that range does is make it that our pets (who have the same life timer) have to run further to get to their targets.
I don’t consider that love. Not even close. Its more like a wedgie.
And thanks for bumping
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BrockmooreWallace
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"you where given 2000 pet range"
We dont have pets, we have Elementals.
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{old}Procifica
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Earth: GTAoE DoT or GTAoE DD
Ice: AoE DD/Snare
Air: AoE Stun (lacking in Albion), or Single Target 1m 20 sec max mezz.
Its very simple mythic...
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Crandell
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Earth line has been dubbed the support spec. Alright fine give us more support spells. How about a AOE Root spell like how Ice has, How about a debuff spell that debuffs ice or spirit. How about some sort of mana regain ability so we can run pbt and be able to cast buffs. Anything How about one damage spell in the earth line so we don't have to rely on the second spec dmage or the ICE baseline attack which is terrible. Please love.
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Crandell
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/bump
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Ylistra
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How about giving Theurgists a real pet? Like a permanent version of the elemental, with the normal pet command panel.
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quyesial
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Giving earth theurgs a spec cold debuff would be good, since casters who can debuff their own damage are easily the best ones these days.
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GoldManiac
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Anything at all?
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{old}Mithandyr
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How about drop the level on the pets, increase timer to like 2 minutes, have one "master elemental", he gets a control panel and l;asts indefinitely. all pets are green to you at whatever level you are, master elemental is high green, anything else is low green. the army of pets you cast follow the master elemental around, like golems. you tell him to attack, he runs and attacks and they all follow him and attack. they cannot choose targets independantly, dont aggro on anything, only help the master elemental, like an extension of him. after 2 minutes they dissappear. same power cost, make it harder for air pets to chain stun, since you could technically get a ton, all that. this way, you could have a short duration mini-siege army of pets to get all up on a door or siege equipment or whatever. this might be unbalanced, im not sure, but i think it wouldnt be horrible for theurgs to actually... you know... not suck for once... mana chanters have been overpowered since day one and they still keep gettin lubbins...
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Silverleaf90
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I have now rolled a wizard and will be specing him in earth mostly for the GTAOE. That seems to be one of the biggest support items in a keep raid. I was hoping my theurgist would be able to be a factor in a keep raid, but...............what's that, ok here's some rebuffs....goes back to reading his book...:(
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Radient_Morning
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/bump yeah Theurgs need some loving
Mythic has already stated that theurgists aren't allowed to have aoe damage spells, so an aoe stun in the earth line would be very usefull, but make sure that it starts at 29 earth spec, perhaps 29/39/49 earth, and 6 8 10 seconds respectively. This way wind theurgs couldn't really use it, at least not with the lvl 45 wind DD, as it was already deemed too powerfull for earth wizards who had spec aoe DDs. Imo, that would really boost the earth line, and give all 3 speclines a form of aoe CC.
And /agree please please please please please make theurgist mezz 1500 range, I HATE having to be in /hug range to cast a mezz (it should also be noted that darkness spiritmasters should have their radius increased to 350 on their ranged aoe mezz).
For Ice I believe the pets need to have 3 second cast times and check for in range at the BEGINNING of a cast instead of the end, so that people can't easily run away from them (atm they are the easiest to outrun/avoid). I also think they should proc snares when they melee to add usefullness in RvR.
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motowntheta
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Hey it's 1.63a and we haven't been fixed yet
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{old}Maverick15999
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kk, 1.63b /hug Theurgists happy? There is your love.
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Demonic_Apparition
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bumps
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Gilimyr
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AoE stun would be nice too. I really don't understand why theurgists have been left out for so long. Low offensive punch. Low survivability. Recently nerfed utility.
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Big_Twinky
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/bump...again...hoping... for...something....anything...
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GoldManiac
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Pendragon down. After more than a year and a half I'm very pessimistic, but I still have that tiny spark of hope.
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Crandell
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Kill the spark of hope, I really doubt theurgs will ever be fixed.
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GoldManiac
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Guess not. <Waves hands wildly> Over here, remember us?
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Crandell
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/bump
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AquaBlaze
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*steps and snuffs the spark of hope out* Trust me, I did you a big favor. Ditch the b*tch and either play a new game, or roll a viable toon.
"I don’t consider that love. Not even close. Its more like a wedgie."
LOL! Too true. Hell, even if Mythic were to play a RR10 Earth Theurgist, they would still suck monkey balls. What's there to get? Will that fix everything? Uh...yea. Thought so.
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WhiteRhyno
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Dont forget ice theurgists, I know we all want earth to be made good but ice is really lacking also.
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{old}jakedomino
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Sure, Ice is short a few things, but Earth is the single worst spec line in the game.
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quyesial
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Heck! I'd be happy if they made EITHER earth or ice viable!!
Well, that plus make siege bolt comparable to other class specific RAs.
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Karaethyr
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/bump
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Crandell
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You know what would make theurgs a good spec, One way simple way easy way, allow us to get two points instead of one point spec. That way you could easily spec in both wind and earth. Simple, fast and easy.
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GoldManiac
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2 points per level would let us get 50 in 2 spec lines and 28 in the third with minis. And we still would be a subpar caster class. We need changes and we need them a year ago (or now).
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Azhrarn_Alb
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(Cut n pasted my original post from the official Theurg discussion boards)
First we're gonna have to start with some facts. Before 1.62, earth theurgists were mainly useful for shielding against a rain of arrows at main gate standoffs or keep sieges. They're lousy nukers, all CC has been nerfed by SC / Determination / Cheap Purge.
That's gone now. What are earth theurgists good for?
Indeed, what?
Suggest a 1 minute immunity timer to be added to the Friction line of spells since it's the last (and only unnerfed) secret weapon in the earth theurgist's arsenal.
---
Cynical? Just look at these first person accounts of the incredible power of Friction!
(Name Withheld), Level 50 R7L4 Light Eldritch from Hib (Server Witheld) had this to say about Friction:
"we used to pwn groups dum enough to run with earth theurgists. theyd like spam those pets n we'd stt and watch em run back an whack em over and over lololllolol. and their baseline ice nuke lol. but after 1.62 we gotta watch em close or they run and find a spot ta friction. 5 sec to take down a caster instead of 4 sec is 4-ever for r tanks so we gotta nearsight em fast."
(Name Withheld), Level 50 R4L5 Ranger had this to say about Friction:
"Since 1.62 I've had the misfortune of running across more than one earth theurgist out solo pwning stealthers. Now I pop out of stealth knowing that while I pop his bubble, and chew through his hitpoints in about 5 seconds, that there's the odd chance that he'll get within 1500 range... and then he casts "it". And I'll be damned if my fire time doesn't go from 1.0 sec to 1.19 seconds. It's freaking awful. Sure their earth pet won't make it to us before I kill the guy, but I'm sure they have sprint on thier hotbar as '1' now, and that awful level 47 spec earth 'paralyzing friction' on the quickbar as 2. Whack! Friction. It even lasts 2 minutes at a 19% penalty to speed! We need at least a 1 minute immunity timer on friction to prevent re-friction. Nerf Friction now pls!"
---
Actually, I think Mythic has done Earth Theurgists a favor in 1.62. Where the awesome power of 6 sec bubble in RvR was overshadowing the real power of the Friction line of earth spec spells. Not only that, with the low mana cost and insta casting time of this spell, think of all the slow you can cause.
Who needs a variant of suppression runemaster, with their nearsight, DD/snare, AoE DD/snare, pbt, and non-specline bolts and fun and varied skillset when those Earth Theurgist masters o siege have Friction.
---
A modest proposal:
AoE Friction
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AoE Friction would be a nice addition to the Earth Theurgist's core spellset.
Make it a 5 second cast time, 1350 range, 350 radius and give it the Minstrel's "Victory Mez" animation.
Classic.
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Xxtayce
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rofl, I love the above post.
Honestly, why do theurgists get no love? Either love us, or merge us with wizards, but we're miserable as-is.
With my free respec of 1.63, I went from 26earth/32air (headed to the cookie-cutter 45air/26earth spec) to 35earth/22ice. I wanted to be different, even though, after some serious thought, I know the earth/ice lines are quite subpar. Why is it so wrong to ask to be different?
Ice has serious issues.
The ice nukes are less delve damage than the air nukes. My only supposition is that they claim the damage of the ice pet evens it out, but the ice pet is resisted rather often (tested it at 42 against a 35 friar with and without self cold buffs), so it's really a non-issue. Why not bump up the ice damage to at least be on par with the air damage? (Speaking of the baseline ice nuke, as the specline ice nuke is just silly.)
Specline ice nuke also has lower damage, with a snare effect. Nice, but doesn't work at all with the specline AE root. Why are these two not on different timers yet? Or why doesn't the snare component get changed to an ice debuff? Additionally, the suggestion of simply adding a cold debuff in the ice line was a wonderful one. It's not like ice/earth theurgists are killing anyone now, and this would hardly become fotm.
Lastly, why on god's green earth do ice nukes cost more power? What reasoning was behind that? Most people who spec "full" earth (45 or 47) use their remaining points in ice to lessen the variance on baseline nukes. Earth already has more power problems than I can think of.
Earth has serious issues.
We have a pet, who melees for around 100ish, and that's IF the pet reaches the player in time, IF the player simply stands there and allows themselves to be whacked, and only useful IF the theurgist isn't dead already from the tell-tale "Hey, I'm easy realmpoints, come kill me!!!" pets.
We have an attack speed debuff. Whee.
The suggestion of having AE attack speed debuff would be fun, but it's still mostly useless.
We have pbt. Yah, that does so much good now that the archer changes are in and 6 sec pbt costs so much power you basically *can't* do anything else. We're better off running speed, picking up our robes, and heading for the hills as soon as an enemy is sighted. At least we wouldn't have rez effects when the fight's over.
Wind has an issue.
Why is mez range deficient? Why has this been asked forever, and never answered? Rest of the specline is fine, imo. But now that necros are out, spirit nukes are no longer even a good pve way to go, as there's nothing a theurgist can take that isn't being shared by 2-3 necros anyway. heh.
Pleasefixtheurgists!!!!!!!!
Edit: Oh, yeah, /bump.
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{old}Skyhaze
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"1) The other 2 lines suck too much to use
or
2) Wind is real cheap.
I dont think it is #2..
LOL I am pretty sure tis #2... and #2 alone...
For to make ice and earth as appealing as or even more appealing than air you'd have to make the other speclines just as cheap as air is...
Now excuse me... how are you going to make them more appealing than what air has available?
You need only mix with enough earth to get the 10 sec PBT. Doh you would get the ghetto mezz? Your ghetto mezz is just what most part of the Healers on Midgard get since most will go only 39 Pacification.
Now combine it with your 2000 range chain stunning pets and the highest damaging dd and you have something... Simple combo mezz some pets dd dd and a dead target...
Air theurgists are even cheaper against Mids... Since healers aug line just plain sucks Mids don't have the spirit resist buff... So an Air theurgist DD nukes like this against 29% spirit resist lvl 50 toon.
http://www.shadowkan.com/sb/lori.JPG
540+ dmg per dd for no need for debuffs
"there are far more cheap lines in the game, and in Albion to play. And all the evidence points to #1."
Far more cheap lines? Nope, in Albion there are classes as cheap as Air Theurgist...
Example the 437 dmg in the pic above is from a necro (necros can also abuse of Mid lack of Spirit resists)... And there's always the extra cheapo Matter Cabalist, the best dotter in DAoC hands down, sporting AE DoTs, 2 stackable single target dots on the same line, nearsight, focus shield and pet recycle for power...
What Earth and Ice Theurgists need is a good nerf on Air specline and then maybe Mythic will give some love to those two lines...
Till there respec to air and go to Mid Frontier to farm RPs
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AquaBlaze
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Well...I think this quote wrapped up the situation with Theurgists lines well:
"The only worse spell line in the game than the Theurgist's Earth line is the Theurgist's Ice spec line."
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{old}Mithandyr
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Skyhaze... i sure hope that was sarcasm...
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Xxtayce
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Sadly, it probably wasn't. Theurgists are all seen as the Evil Chain Stunning Superior Nuking PBT Casting Gods of Albion... even though we suck.
If people would just leave us alone, or go roll a theurgist to see for themselves how much we suck, we might actually get some love.
How is it the air theurgist or necro's fault that your realm has sucky spirit resist? Up the spirit resist and you'll be doin' a lot better, as that's a theurgist/necro/reaver counter right there.
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Rhyolt
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I have played earth, Ice/Earth and wind/earth specs for this class and feel I have a pretty good idea of what's right and what's not.
Wind may well be the current favourite spec but personally it's not that satisfying for me to play.
Ice I liked for the AOE root and better pbt but it was definitely subpar in RVR -> why is there never mention of the fact that the snare/dd is on the root timer??? working as intended??
basically I no longer play this toon after spending over a year persevering with him. I respecced to air in the hope it would rejuvinate my interest but that wasn't to be. I find that spec ok in RVR but it's not an overly satisfying spec and not what I wanted to have.
My once favourite class that I leveled to conduct sieges with is possibly the worst siege caster in Albion....
Rhyalt
50 Theurgist
Pellinor
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quyesial
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And upgrade siege bolt! It is the only theurg skill that blows more than the earth spec line does!!
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Xxtayce
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Someone posted the idea of changing siege bolt to be "Siege Dot" on the "Official RA Topic"... would love to see that. Usable only on doors/siege equip/keep guards type stuff, but dots for around 150-200, conc based, but greys out when the caster is out of a certain range. Maybe not a great fix, but an interesting idea.
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Lardahs_SOD
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i wouldnt mind having the following added to our specs
Earth:
GTAE dot
Cold:
AE stun
Wind:
Longer range mez
also for pets, please do reduce the cost of casting each pet, as a seige caster, after we cast 12-15 pets on doors, we run oom and gotta sit down for min's to get mana back..
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daryen
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ICE from the mid side seems like an ok spec.
Earth could use help.. especially when you compare it to what a warden gets.. makes you cry.
AIR ON THE OTHER HAND.... that spec could make baby jeasus cry 
If you think about it.. you can go split spec and have aoe mez... long duration aoe root... and chain stunning pets 
<--- FUll time mid saying earth needs help
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djbooger
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bump!
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Albion_Exile
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Earth theurgist's could use help in RvR.. that seems obvious and GTAE for them might be a possibility (since it's the best siege spell available). If a theurgist decides to spec air primary, they'd be a strong keep warfare specialist with 6 sec pbt + gtae.
Ice theurgists are not in as bad of shape as their earth brothers but the spec DD/snare is not that great for damage output, but is pretty much identical to the one I live with as a suppression runemaster. Maybe we should both see the cast time reduced to 2.8 sec?
As for Air theurgists, I think they are one of the best caster classes/specs in Albion. Their air pets have 2000 range with stun spells that cast repeatedly. Your air DD is also a very high damage dealing spell with 2.8 sec cast time.
Maybe the Air mez isn't that good, but then your other tools are pretty nice. Don't forget you also get run speed, 2nd spec in Earth has 10sec pbt, and great buffs (damage add + haste).
2 of 3 spec lines (Air and Ice) are decent specs for RvR. Maybe earth doesn't cut it but alot of other classes have the same problem with 1 or more of their spec lines. Moreover, the weakest line for primary spec is always used a the 2nd spec line (so earth is not a completely messsed up line). Just add GTAE to earth and I think theurgists should be in ok shape.
Gromley level 50 runemaster guin
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motowntheta
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Can't have high air and 6 sec pbt
Ice DD's in the ice line are mana hogs and require you to take it so high so as not to have any pbt. Ice pets are very bad with their slow to cast lvl 25 dd
Earth is poor period.
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{old}fludane
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from what i read:
i like the idea of having STUN in air line.
i also like the idea of putting ice debuff in ice nuke.
i like the most on the idea of having GTAE Dot.
big /BUMP
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{old}Skyhaze
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"Theurgists are all seen as the Evil Chain Stunning Superior Nuking PBT Casting Gods of Albion..."
Wrong... From Mid perspective:
Air Theurgists are the Evil Chain Stunning Superior Nuking Casting Gods of Albion
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luelle
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I agree with all the other Theurgists...
Ice and Earth suck and need major help..
Air is decent but needs a few tweeks...
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{old}jakedomino
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Hint: chain stun was removed a number of patches ago.
MYTHIC:
Theurg elementals need to cost a fixed anount, not a % of power. This is a bogus penalty that hurts high level therugs a LOT.
Theurg elementals need to be faster. They take too long to get to their target.
Theurg mez needs to be the same range as all other mezzes.
The Ice spec needs help.
The Earth spec is BROKEN.
Help theurgs now!
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{old}Znail-2
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Quote:
--------------------------------------------
Hint: chain stun was removed a number of patches ago.
--------------------------------------------
Hint: Chain stun was removed from players, not pets a few patches ago.
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BrockmooreWallace
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"Honestly, why do theurgists get no love? Either love us, or merge us with wizards, but we're miserable as-is. "
And therein is the problem. During beta up until the very very end there was no Theurgist class, the Wizard and Theurg were one class.
Now obviously this was overpowered so they split them.
Problem is they then made both classes borderline useless and spread the needed abilities in Albion to thin.
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Latric
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I find it interesting that there is always a long thread on this here on the developers board. The fact is supported by players from all realms. They are very few that even attempt to say theurgist don't need some help. But nobody from mythic ever makes even the slightest comment on this problem and the only fix the class has recieved was ridiculasly weak.
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Shadowmage
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I am praying to the Mythic gods that they have plans for us in the RVR patch and plan to finaly give us our siege spells then to boost us that way. Becuase if they boost us before then boost us again in the RVR patch all holy hell will be raised around here and we will just lose everything we got.
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GoldManiac
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I noticed that it's mostly Mids complaining about our nuke. You know why? Because most mids have less than 20% spirit resists. Yes, I nuke for about 500 on mids. And Hibs you ask? Well, they have over 60% spirit resists, and I nuke for about 200 on them. Not to tell mids how to defeat theurgists, but if you get more spirit resists, you'd see why we need so much help.
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Crandell
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/bump
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Demonic_Apparition
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sad part is spellcrafting lets you get max in everything you need for resists. My full time character (thats not a gimp) is now my 50 Savage on Percival. I have max of most the nuke resists, and wind theurgists are alot more easy to take damage from then most the other elementalist/mages. Anyone who complains about being owned by a caster with less then 20% of their resist is asking to get owned.
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Ylistra
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Now if only the earth line had a spell that was even worth attempting to resist....
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Crandell
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Cold day in hell would be if someone was specing their suit with /earth resist, OH NO A EARTH PET IS COMING AT ME!!!!!!! Thank god I have high earth resist. /bump
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{old}Jaavon
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I don't know whats been mentioned so far ... so might be some repeat info.
Earth (theurgist) is the only casting line in the game without a way to deal damage short of the pet spec's (spirit, enchantments - etc - which aren't really that bad though).
I've proposed fixes before in several threads, all of which were deleted to make room for skald reads or some other unexplained reason, and here is my fix ...
Take the snare/dd away from the iceline and make it a matter based earth nuke. Add a gtaoe to earth. Those two things would add utility to the utility line of albions utility caster. It would also somewhat satisfy the thought of the siege mage. There are other outlandish ideas out there to satisfy that requirement ... but they would be a lot harder to implement and get a 'hahaha ... no' response so they aren't worth mentioning.
The ice line is also somewhat lame. I think to help the ice spec line they should recieve a debuff/dd similar to an ice-wizards but perhaps make it a 20% debuff with a lower delve rather than an exact copy of the ice wizards. Also, add a pbaoe/debuff that would delve at 275ish at top level and add a 10-15% debuff to the effect. There lots of variations (snares, debuffs, stuns ... more if i put more thought into it) to the combination spells that would allow the ice theurgist to do a lot that the wizards can not (And work very well in tandem with them) while not stepping on their toes as the pure damage dealing casters of albion.
There is also a popular option to add an ice debuff or other debuffs to one of the two lines. I'm not against this, its a good idea, but i'd rather my idea .
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Big_Twinky
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Bump
I think everything has been said, its time for action now
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GoldManiac
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Well, another week is come and gone. Time to keep this bumped until monday when we can try again.
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Crandell
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Yeah i'm kinda waiting to see what they do with this next patch. Mids are screaming now that they can't hit the I win button but i'm sure we shall see no love for theurgs.
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Azhrarn_Alb
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From 1.52 Patch Notes:
"- Theurgist air pets have been tuned so that they stun a bit less in RvR, but retain a normal PvE stun rate. Previously, the high chance of the stun proc firing in RvR combined with a lack of a recast timer made the pet able to chain stun RvR targets."
Tip for the paranoid: Approximately 1sec stun proc average per 2 pets when you're even con with your target. Most air theurgists won't spend the time to cast more than 1 pet, which will interrupt while they nuke you down hard.
Since this 'chainstun' thing keeps coming up, a modest proposal would be to remove the stun proc from air pets entirely and instead give Air Theurgists a 1500 range, 3 sec castable 9 second stun. That way you'd have the benefit of an immunity timer; assuming that you live 9 seconds.
---
I think that everyone already knows what I think about the Earth line. It's was awful before 1.62 and it's worse now (except Friction which totally rocks with all the slow you can cause).
---
The Ice line is actually in FAR worse shape than earth. The earth spec is 45 earth / 29 ice. Few people go 50 in ice to get the last DD/snare anyways (or they lose out on PBT and the Air nuke is far more worthwhile). Since the LoS adjustments, their elemental is so worthless I haven't seen anyone above the rank of Warder in recent history actually cast one in combat.
How would I fix earth and ice? I'd look to the specialist skillsets of other casters with an eye for what the _intent_ of the specialization is. Earth and Ice seem thrown together without any real vision of what their purpose is in an RvR group. Choose Support (which would involve debuffs being added of some sort), Siege (which would involve GTAoE and maybe a bolt or two which could be used vs both doors and other players), or Pet Damage (which would involve adding a few of the pets that the animists use, but not their turrets; which are class-defining).
This is all just hot air though, these two spell lines have been broken for so long that most theurgists have respec'd Air.
Not that it's a bad thing for Albion RvR since Air can deal a lot of punishment.
It is, however, bad news for Albion in PvE since I'd predict that there will be less than 1% of theurgists with 6 second non-bot bubble in the next very few weeks.
After hammering my way to R5 with Earth, I finally respec'd air and I'd recommend the change to anyone who plays the class. The other two lines are simply not worthwhile in the RvR end game.
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Shadowmage
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Bumps in hope we get at least word of something.
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Albion_Exile
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There's a good reason why most mids have low spirit resistance compared to Hibs. Unfortunately, it has little do with SC'd equipment.
1) Hib enchanters have Brillant Aura of Deflection than gives them near magic immunity when activated. Mids have no such realm abilitiy (atleast ALbs have BoF).
2) Spirit resistance is in the augment line for healers. Guess what! most healers spec Pac/Mend and have augment too low even get the first spirit resist buff. To counter this problem, experienced Mid RvR groups run with 2 healers with 1 spec'd high augment just to get those nice resists. This usually requires someone in the guild to respec their healer from Pac to Aug. This makes the character less fun to play and makes the new aug healer unable to perform crowd control.
If you aren't in a optimized Mid group, you'll pretty much have 20 something spirit resist with typical SC setup. Don't blame us for spec line issues and lack of realm abilities.
Gromley level 50 runemaster guin
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{old}Procifica
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I have some radical new ideas for all three Spec lines, ideas which we all know mythic would never implement.
But here goes:
Earth line:
Pet Damage Add (chant) 0s/6s/8s Would be 4 versions of the spell, gained at say lvs 11, 21, 31, 41 as examples. Would scale similar to the Warden/Paladin/Skald DPS chants. This spell would give all pets a boost to melee damage while the spell is in effect. Power cost would be 1/2/3/4 per pulse.
Pet Shield (chant) 0s/6s/8s Would be 4 versions of the spell, gained at say lvs 14, 24, 34, and 44 as examples. This spell would scale similar to the Paladin Shield chant. This spell would give all pets a boost in defense while the spell is in effect. Power cost would be 1/2/3/4 per pulse.
Ice spec:
Pet Constitution (chant) 0s/6s/8s Would be 4 versions of the spell, gained at say lvs 11, 21, 31, and 41 as examples. This spell would allow each pet to have 10%/20%/30%/40% more max HP while the spell is in effect. Power cost would be 1/2/3/4 per pulse.
Pet Life (chant) 0s/6s/8s Would be 4 versions of the spell, gained at say lvs 14, 24, 34, and 44 as examples. This spell would allow each pet summoned while the spell is in effect, to have 10%/20%/30%/40% longer duration. Power cost would be 1/2/3/4 per pulse.
Air spec:
Pet Speed (chant) 0s/6s/8s Would be 4 versions of the spell, gained at say lvs 11, 21, 31, and 41 as examples. This spell would scale similar to the Warden/Healer/Sorcerer speed spells. This spell would give all pets a boost to run speed while the spell is in effect. Power cost would be 1/2/3/4 per pulse.
Pet Haste (chant) 0s/6s/8s Would be 4 versions of the spell, gained at say lvs 14, 24, 34, 44 as examples. This would scale similarly to the Druid Haste buff. This spell would give all pets a boost to attack speed while the spell is in effect. Power cost would be 1/2/3/4 per pulse.
This gives each line 2 useful pet chants, which will help the effectiveness of Theurgist pets. The numbers can be tweaked of course for balance. I've put a power cost on each because others may deem them too powerful without one, but it is a low power cost.
These still go along with the following:
Earth: GTAoE of some kind
Ice: AoE DD/Snare
Air: AoE Stun or Single Target Mezz (1m 20 sec)
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Crandell
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/bump
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JohnM81
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Hello fellow Theurgists:
I left DAoC about a year ago and have been keeping track of it on and off. Most of you probably dont remember me. I used to be very active on the boards trying to get theurgists some love. I left after the whole 1.59 crap came about.
Well I see you all are still giving the good fight! Good for you! Let me throw in some of my support too.
As I preached before, swing based duration and access to wild minion would be a huge help the us when considering our gimpy pets.
It would be nice to have our mez uped to 1500 too.
Well just throwing in my .02 Good luck and cya around.
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_Arandal_
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thoughts for the improvement of earth and ice
earth:
- GTAOE DD/Snare
- debuff cold damage
- reduce cost of 6sec pbt for all (even warden/runie)
ice:
- AOE DD (hailstorm) -OR- AOE nearsight (Fog)
- ice elementals PROC dd instead of current CAST dd AND dd level scales up with level of pet.
- fix the ultrabuggy AI for the elementals
- increase delve value of dd/snare. Baseline nukes should never be the weapon of choice over a same-line spec nuke.
all theurgists:
elementals should be able to reach targets, even on ramparts, windows, etc. If LOS is good and in range, spell should be able to affect target - earthellies tunnel, airellies fly, iceellies keep on PROCing their DD.
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Xxtayce
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Uggh, but the pets are so miserable. A bard's typical complaint is that, as soon as someone notices them with an instrument, they're dead.... even if the pets didn't have an insane power cost, they still tell everyone within visible radius, "Hey, I'm easy realmpoints!!"
As for the Mids and their resists, they could use help in a lot of areas, RA's and some reorganizing of spell lines, but that has little to do with whether or not Theurgists should get some love. Both should, imo, and I've bumped several mid threads in support of it. Also, I've heard rumors that the new "master levels" will include something along the lines of pbt for spells, that may have an impact, and may be one of the many reasons Mythic is holding off on improvements in some areas.
As for theurgist-wizard merge, aye, I knew they were the same class (in beta maybe?), but as time's passed, RA's have come into play, and spellcasters have grown weaker through resists/sc/etc, I don't think it would be overpowered now. Drop the pets, it's an idea that didn't work anyway.
Castable stun is a great idea. Smite cleric's stun is the only one we get, and with so few smite clerics these days (*cough* tynerf *cough*), we don't exactly have a comparable stun to the other two realms. It may be something that would need to be seriously evaluated to consider the consequences, but something to at least look at, no?
And with the new definition of a light tank, I can't help but wonder.... if they no longer consider theurgists a siege caster, why not come out and tell us, so we can try to come up with ideas that fit more in line with Mythic's "vision" for us? Or any kind of comment at all?
Still rather annoyed that Alb got their "Alb love" patch, and one of the classes who could use it just as much as the others, if not more, was completely ignored. (Unless you count making two of the three pets run a small percentage faster, and nerfing pet stun, "love"?)
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Crandell
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AND ..................... a bump bump here and a bump bump there, here a bump there a bump everywhere a bump bump
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Xxtayce
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<hug Crandell>
This is about the third topic I've seen in the past month or two. They can't realistically ignore theurgists forever.
/bump =p
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XBlackheart
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What's a theurgist?
Is it anything like the mythical spiritmaster?
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If you're laughing and fall off a cliff and I had you targeted, it counts.
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Demonic_Apparition
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bump
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{old}Procifica
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No comments or suggestions on my recent proposals?
/bump
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Percilus
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You think anyone will actually read this thread at mythic..I hope so
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Xxtayce
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The chants idea is great, as buffs for 30 second pets wouldn't work so well, but...
Not sure about other servers, but there's quite a lack of runspeed on mine, and when we get to wherever we're going, I'm requested to turn on pbt. If Mythic did implement more chants, it would be even more difficult to juggle them, and it would probably be very difficult to keep up on power if we had to attempt to twist castable spells. (This would not address Albion's current lack of decent pbt, either, as most are already secondary pbt casters, and would probably go for the spells that improve their chances for killspam over the spells that have a possibility of helping their realm.) Also, most chants have around the same range, and if you're casting a pet, you'll probably be out of that range already.
I'm more in favor of giving theurgists more utitlity and damage, instead of making pets more powerful. It's currently one of the leading complaints against us. Understandably having better nukes may not go over well either, but a person's common complaint with pets is that they:
A) Chainstun while the theurgist nukes them to death. <sigh> Really wish they'd remember that Mythic did address that, aka nerf, and that a theurgist can only cast as many pets as they have power for, before someone realizes what's going on and nukes/hacks-to-pieces said caster. At the current power cost, it's *maybe* 8-ish? (Rough estimate, as I don't do it often.) And on top of that, if they'd run when they saw the whirl around them indicating air pets were coming, this wouldn't even be an issue. I know I sure as heck run if I see an elf or keen with glowing spells on his/her hands.
B) If you send enough pets at someone currently, they die. (Probably far from the truth, but if a person was just rezzed, and unbuffed, and didn't have runspeed of any kind, and didn't see a massive army of elementals headed their way, and didn't move... it's possible.)
Also, I seriously doubt the ideas to air pets would fly at all in MythicLand. You're asking for the pets to run faster (so they can't be outrun), and to swing faster (so they have more chances to stun). Afraid the public outcry on this one would nerf theurgists into nonexistance, even worse than we are now.
I remain favorable to the ideas that give earth a gtae, or possibly a nuke of its own, lower the power costs on ice nukes to be equivalent with those of their air brethren, cause the ice pets to be resisted less often, give air 1500 mez, tune down the power costs of pbt, make siege bolt worth its weight in points or drop the points on it, give single-target stun to air, give a cold or spirit resist debuff in the earth line, change around the way ice nukes work so they don't negate AE root, give ae friction to earth (even though it sounded like sarcasm in the post more than anything, it's still an idea), etc, etc. So many ideas have been put forth so far, without a peep from anyone in charge. It's terrible.
And I really hope Mythic does read this, as it's Julie's job to do so, and currently all she's been doing is reading the easy posts and passing on the ideas.
edit: typing is teh suq.
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Demonic_Apparition
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bump
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Hyperion191
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an earthquake, AE DD, could be fun in earth line
ice could use improved pets (LOS)
air could use a 1500 ranged AE mez
our (laughable) class RA should be less than 10 pts : on my server, i never seen a theurg using it (i still dont know what it looks like !)
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Shadowmage
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The TL is trying to get or damage add and attack speed bufs when cast on us transfer to the pets. They can do it just like they do stat tranfers for Necros.
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quyesial
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Having the damage add and haste transfer to pets would be good, but it would help all the specs equally (well, no completely equally since the wind pets are the shortest lived). The fact is that earth and ice need some special loving.
Wind just needs the mez range upped to 1500 like everyone else, or at least a real explanation from Mythic as to why, after 15 months of asking for the mez range to be upped, they feel it is overpowered to grant that.
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AquaBlaze
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"This is about the third topic I've seen in the past month or two. They can't realistically ignore theurgists forever."
*looks at 1.63a* Or can they?
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Crandell
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buffing pets I see as kinda pointless, they are very short lived and easy to run away from, and have no hit points. More pets would be a good idea, A pet RA would be something nice, a damage spell in the Earth line would be nice, lowering the power for PBT and Pets would be nice, PBT on Insta cast timer would be nice, making wind mez range 1500 would be nice, Giving us two spec points would be nice, but I really want to see mythic come up with their own crazy idea, I mean they are the ones responisble for the slight pbt nerf to our class./
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Xxtayce
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Good evening Camelot. On tonight's ajenda: Bump!
Mythic tends to do huge patches with massive impacts, and then one or two "fluff" and "fix" patches to see the repurcussions of the previous patches, and then returns to the balance and such. I don't really forsee theurg love in 1.63, but maybe 1.64. (And yeah, I know how much that thought sucks.)
My hope is that when they return to hib, and maybe mid, they'll remember us, finally. I mean hell, they didn't give us love in "Alb Love Patch", maybe they've forgotten they didn't put us in hib or mid instead.
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GoldManiac
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Good to see you posting up there John (Temulence in game, right?). Yes, I was there last time we went through this begging process also. I wound up quitting for a couple of months after it, but a few things not having to do with my theurgist brought me back. SI was a big one, it allowed me to pl my wizard from 30 to 40 and get a better class out to RVR.
I won't be quitting this time, but there will be many theurgists who will. What other evidence do you need Mythic? Why won't you help us?
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Smit_Whack
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Just merge Earth Theurgist and Earth Wizard
From an Earth Theurgist point of view, this will solve that line's problems.
spec Bolt
spec DoT
spec AE Root
spec GTAoE
spec PBT
Leave only Fire and Ice Wizards.
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Xxtayce
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Or merge 'em all back together, and have these lines in the wizard class:
Ice
Air
Fire
Earth
Woah, the four elements.. isn't that, like, what wizards of stories used anyway? Nah, sheer coincidence. They'd be CAPTAIN PLANET!!!!!!!
*cough* Erm, excuse me.
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quyesial
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Merging theurgs and wizzies into an elementalist class would be good. Remove the theurg travel chant and give it to the spirit cabbie spec. Give the wiz damage shield and earth wiz AE snare to one of the underused necro specs.
Move the GTAE, DOT and spec bolt to the earth theurg and that class is good. Move the AE root and snare+dd to the ice wiz line, dump the dd+debuff and that class is good. Move the ice elemental to the fire line, and that spec is good. Up the mez range on wind, move the haste debuff from earth to wind (it is wind/spirit based anyway) and that spec is good.
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Xxtayce
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Bah! The main reason I rolled a theurg instead of a wizard, in the very very very beginning, was runspeed. =p
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Warlade
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Incase some of you don't know, in the begging (early beta) Theurgist and Wizards were one class (Wizard) . Mythic decided that having so many abilitys in one class was overpowering and thus the Theurgist was born. Looking back on that now, it all makes sense to me, how can your class be good when its simply an afterthought of another class lol.
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{old}Jaavon
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iirc the smite cleric stun is a baseline smite spell ... meaning all clerics have it.
besides the point though. a stun or aoe stun would be a great addition to theurgists and to albion in general.
/sigh.
/bump.
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Xxtayce
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Yeah, theurgists were the overpowered abilities of a wizard, taken out of the wizard, left with a gimp class.
And yes, smite is baseline, but as very few clerics spec smite, it's less effective. With the few number of theurgists we have today, and the massive underpopulation of real clerics (read: not bots, but played characters) in Albion, I doubt it'd be overpowering either.
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Karios
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i didnt read through all 7 pages, but i have played an earth theurg a wind theurg and a tri-spec theurg, the only viable spec has been wind, plz fix earth theurgs
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{old}fludane
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/bump
agreed on granting theurgist stun spell
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Unpluged3
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Too many pages back, no one will see this anyway. But theurgs do need love.
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_Arandal_
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Nope... the essay is too long for the TA's at Mythic to read. So the only thing left to do is ...
KEEP IT BUMPED
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Crandell
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Anyone that knows my char and me knows that i'm a earth theurg to heart and never plan to respec out of it, I enjoy being support but we do need serious help still. BUMP
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GoldManiac
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Late Sunday pre-Mythic reading bump.
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{old}Deathtoll2
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Bumpity bump bump, bumpity bump bump, look at where it goes...
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Kaolla_Nut
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Earth thuergs need fixing, please fix this broken line.
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Demonic_Apparition
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bump
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{old}fludane
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yet another BUMPer
earth needs help by granting offensive spell or another utility (DD or AE DD, GTAOE...)
ice line needs help too
wind mezz range is supposed to be 1500
and again we need to have stun
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oxedus
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BUMPalicous to the class billed as siege master. This class needs tremendous help. So cast that PBT (Pulsing Bump Turn)until Mythic listens.
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{old}jakedomino
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"They can't realistically ignore theurgists forever."
You want to bet? The earth theurgist line has been broken forever and no one and Mythic has ever even noticed it.
This will show you how bad off the earth theurgist line is. Here are the PBT lines for the two directly-comparable cloth-caster PBT classes in the game:
Runemaster Suppression spec line: Direct Damage/Snare, AE Direct Damage/Snare, Confusion, Nearsight, Bladeturn
Theurgist Earth spec line: Summon Ally, Lower Attack Speed Shout (worthless), and Bladeturn
Runemasters rule and theurgists suck, and the above explains why.
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Crandell
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bump
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Crandell
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back to top always on top you should be YES
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GoldManiac
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Remember us!!
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Crandell
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Bump
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Crandell
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bump if you like it
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Azhrarn_Alb
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"Runemaster Suppression spec line: Direct Damage/Snare, AE Direct Damage/Snare, Confusion, Nearsight, Bladeturn
Theurgist Earth spec line: Summon Ally, Lower Attack Speed Shout (worthless), and Bladeturn
Runemasters rule and theurgists suck, and the above explains why. "
That doesn't fully explain why.
A better way to put it is that Suppression Ruinmasters (and Wardens) have a valid purpose in RvR regardless of PBT, where Earth Theurgists do not (unless you count Friction on opponents, think of all the slow you can cause).
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ShivasRegal
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BUMP....
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_Arandal_
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ya. wow.
the Increase in DPS (Damage per SWAT) you can give your opponents by using SLOW is just amazing.
which side is the theurgist on anyway?
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Crandell
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Personally I enjoy making the monsters and enemy hit harder, it just allows them to kill me quicker, mythic explain this one to me please? and while you are at it, GIVE US LOVE
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AquaBlaze
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"Incase some of you don't know, in the begging (early beta) Theurgist and Wizards were one class (Wizard) . Mythic decided that having so many abilitys in one class was overpowering and thus the Theurgist was born."
No...I think that's how Runemasters & Wardens were made. ^_^
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{old}wHo_yO_dAddY
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Theurgists are some of the most powerful casters in the game imo. My theurg is 47+15 wind and 26 earth. He usually nukes for 400 - 500+(with mom2) and criting for 200 - 300 sometimes(with wp3), nuking for every 2 seconds(with moa). I'm always fully buffed also. I've nuked ppl for 900+ dmg before(including crit) and without power relics. I couldn't be happier with the power of the theurg. This class is perfect the way it is imo, why would anyone choose earth over wind? only god knows why. PBT is good to have, but don't over do it. 10 seconds is enough, dump the rest into wind and you'd have a pretty powerful caster.
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{old}AlbinoSqrl
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People would like 3 viable spec lines, not 1.
Give those poor Theurgists some love!
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ShivasRegal
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bump from an earth theurgy
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_Arandal_
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page two
just won't do
<neither will inaction, but that's a different matter>
DAOC is in need of a new EARTHDAY
edit: bah, wrong tense
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Pritcon
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Theurgists are SO bad, Other realms don't even have the Earth,Ice,Air Elementals on their wish lists......
"Albion gets so many more abilities...WHY?"
http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=52009374&replies=11
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{old}Jaavon
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...
bump
...
nothing more to see here. move along.
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GoldManiac
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Tuesday, let's see some theurgist love in 1.63b bump.
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Crandell
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bump to the top
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oxedus
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so i wonder how long would this thread last...
BUMPPPPPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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GoldManiac
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Until we get to 1400 postes, mods lock it, and we get a mention of "upcoming boosts" in the grab bag.
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Xxtayce
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"Theurgists are some of the most powerful casters in the game imo. My theurg is 47+15 wind and 26 earth. He usually nukes for 400 - 500+(with mom2) and criting for 200 - 300 sometimes(with wp3), nuking for every 2 seconds(with moa). I'm always fully buffed also. I've nuked ppl for 900+ dmg before(including crit) and without power relics. I couldn't be happier with the power of the theurg. This class is perfect the way it is imo, why would anyone choose earth over wind? only god knows why. PBT is good to have, but don't over do it. 10 seconds is enough, dump the rest into wind and you'd have a pretty powerful caster."
Theurgists of the Earth spec do not WANT to be powerful nukers. If that was their intent, they would have been wizards. How is this fine? Our job is protection and support, not to be "a pretty powerful caster".
/bump
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Crandell
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bump
I am a earth theurg, I would like the ability to at least attack someone so that they don't destroy me in two hits, being able to survive is a big issue with most casters, but theurgs with me 800 hit points its a joke.
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{old}fludane
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here is another bumper
i don't know why i keep crying for this but: it is nice if theurgist have stun.
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KnumbKnuts
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my thuerg is now my dragon raid bot...
he got wtfpwned the last time, too
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Demonic_Apparition
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bumpo
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{old}jakedomino
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It's 6/17 and theurgists still suck.
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Crandell
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bump
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hastemerlin
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OMG
This has to be the worst caster toon I have ever played. I tried all 3 flavors with /level and all I can say is OMG. I can not even imagine the dissatisfaction a level 50 player would feel.
Help these guys out
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Crandell
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bump
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Azhrarn_Alb
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"This has to be the worst caster toon I have ever played. I tried all 3 flavors with /level and all I can say is OMG. I can not even imagine the dissatisfaction a level 50 player would feel."
Damn, Hastemerlin, that's a lot of casters in your .sig.
50 Void-eldi/igraine/Dei/retired
50 Light-chanter/merlin/Haste/retired
50 Mana-chanter/igraine/Tosa/simi-retired
Air spec is pretty decent. It would be better if the AoE mez was at the same range (1500) as everyone else's; but it's still pretty good to RvR with.
You're right about the other 2. Ice is more useless than earth. Both specs are awful RvR.
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{old}Jaavon
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i beg to differ.
ice has a castable spell. that means you can't play your character better while afk than you can while at the keyboard. that means earth is still the winner for this years 't3h suck' award.
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Orwyn
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Whine more. You didn't mention though the single unique ability Theurgs got over any other caster or pet mage in any realm: you can set pets on just about everyone and unless they got at least some defensive skills all they can do is run. That's 12% of your mana bar completely negating Mr. Enemy Caster's ability to contribute anything useful. If that's not powerful enough, well...
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Crandell
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Yeah your right, we can cast pets at 12% of our power also while running pbt, that means you should get off maybe 12 pets maybe a little more or less depending on many issues but after you cast one pet you are target number one for easy and fast RPs, any caster can now nuke kill us in two hits, any tank can easily get rid of us in two hits. So by casting a pet we are just painting a BIG YELLOW HIT ME sign on our freakin face and thats that. Oh and pets don't even hit for much and also it takes them forever to even interrupt the caster, that caster is going to at least get off 2 nukes before he even feels the pet on him, thats also if we aren't already dead by many other means.
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GoldManiac
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Well Orwyn, I can kill yelllow casters with less 12% of my power as my wizard, so yes 12% power to "distract" a caster is horrible. Masters of siege we are not. The only time theurgists are good at anything is 1 on 1 battles.
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Demonic_Apparition
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bump
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{old}Procifica
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Please explain how anyone will let a theurgist spam pets continously without doing SOMETHING to them to make them stop?
Simple solution to those pets: kill them. Its not hard.
Theurgists need more spells.
/bump
Mythic: Listen to your player base for a change. It might help your $$$$.
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Azhrarn_Alb
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"Whine more. You didn't mention though the single unique ability Theurgs got over any other caster or pet mage in any realm: you can set pets on just about everyone and unless they got at least some defensive skills all they can do is run. That's 12% of your mana bar completely negating Mr. Enemy Caster's ability to contribute anything useful. If that's not powerful enough, well... "
Yeah. If it lasted 2 mins instead of the 20 seconds that a pet lasts, they'd call it Nearsight and give it a 2 sec cast time.
We can't have that.
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{old}Jaavon
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first page pls.
does anyone know why theurgists are the only class that I am yet to see an 'official thread' for?
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{old}fludane
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i wonder if earth and ice got some fixes, would mythic grant respec?
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GoldManiac
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I'm getting tired of this. Maybe I should just delete my theurgist so I don't even have to think about it any more. Of course the next day the patch would come out that gives theurgists a dozen new spells.
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{old}fludane
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bumpadelic
fludane cast slevel 26 pulsing bumping turn
fludane casts might earth shout, "FIX THEURGIST!"
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oxedus
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while i have the time
why not as well contribute to more bumpings
theurgist ice line might as well get a unique spell.....
oh well keep dreaming
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Gilimyr
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How's this for a useless statistic?
Theurgists: last in realm point gains among all cloth casters for over a year
Necros seem to be lower since SI was introduced, but my guess is that's because most L50 necros are primarily used as PvE powerleveling toons for wannabe d00dfiltrators.
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Orwyn
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Crandell, I can't count the number of classes who say they are No 1 target in RvR if they do anything to show their class (or often by their looks already). You are a cloth caster, and yes people will try to prevent you from casting. They will also go for the Cleric, the Sorcerer and others... Anything new there?
Goldmaniac, it is definitely a difference if your character (without any pet) is occupied with interrupting an enemy character or if it's one of so many pets in a fire&forget manner... Pets also are how Theurgist kill their enemies, if you want the Wizard style spamming the better DD versions, play Wizard? If it was anything lower than 12% power, imagine the number of pets a Theurgist could pump out... scary.
Fire&forget pets are just limited by power cost. Of course I expect Theurgist players to demand it to be cheaper... just how I expect Animists to want more mushrooms at once. Hopefully not going to happen anytime soon though.
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Big_Twinky
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/bump for some long overdue theurgist love.
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veleuk
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"Fire&forget pets are just limited by power cost."
False. They're limited by time and by distance from the person you are attacking. VERY commonly I've casted pets upon someone and all they do is sprint and my "Fire & Forget" pets do absolutely......nothing.
How would every other caster like it if their DDs did less damage if they took one step backwards?
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Orwyn
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"and all they do is sprint and my "Fire & Forget" pets do absolutely......nothing"
Like I said in an earlier post, your pet has actually done something... it made someone sprint instead of contributing anything useful. I consider making people run for their life quite powerful. Sure, a group can help the poor healer with pets on him, yet this will occupy more characters than it took to create the menace - one Theurgist.
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GoldManiac
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Why don't I just use my level 1 nuke then? Maybe I can distract them by making them laught at getting hit by 3(-2) damage.
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Goryion
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Lol I love how the "Theurgs are fine" crowd always uses the "You interupt casters" as our defining feature.
Uhm, if that's my feature, fine, but there ain't NO WAY it should cost 12% of my power to inturupt a caster for 10 seconds, when said caster can use 12% of his mana and KILL me in 10 seconds.
Now think about the whining and crying that would start if EVERY caster had to empty their mana bar to kill a single opponent. Or if every tank had to empty thier End bar (well with regen it's kinda moot) to kill a single enemy (caster or tank.)
If Theurgs are going to be utility, fine, but having 2 viable spells, isn't much of a class.
Gor
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JohnM81
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Hey guys....
Just checking in again to see if I will be reactivating my account. From the looks of it I wont .
Well Ill be stoping in later to see if we have got any love.
Owyn? Please tell me you are a old player that made a new VN account. That way your words can have some small bit of validity.
IF you arent please shut the hell up and take your 14 post self out of here and dont come back till you are a bit older.
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GoldManiac
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At least I can use my theurgist to farm cash for the upcoming housing. That and him being a spellcraft bot.
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Orwyn
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Thanks for inviting me to join, I guess you reached your post count by backing off at a post number of 10 too. Btw. I'm playing in Europe and have just recently noticed these boards.
Anyway, I'm all for filled spec lines and less of cookie-cutter-spec classes. And the Ice line looks all attractive to me. But plz don't try to suggest you can't kill anyone 1 on 1. And on top of that, you can choose to split up your damage to keep multiple opponents busy for much longer than just the casting time of a single spell. That's more than most other classes can do.
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Azhrarn_Alb
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"Like I said in an earlier post, your pet has actually done something... it made someone sprint instead of contributing anything useful. I consider making people run for their life quite powerful. Sure, a group can help the poor healer with pets on him, yet this will occupy more characters than it took to create the menace - one Theurgist. "
A couple of problems with that statement.
Based upon the 'healer' comment above, I assume that you're a midgard player. At speed 6, it takes a Savage about 2 seconds to find and kill the theurgist. When the theurgist dies, the elementals die.
If the theurgist was Air instead of Earth and had spent the 12 seconds nuking with an air DD instead of stacking earth pets the healer would probably be dead instead of 'irritated because he can't cast anything but instas'. OMG fear the power of the interrupt. Maybe the earth theurgist will cast Friction on the enemy tanks as well so they hit harder?
If you've been in the theurgist's shoes playing against Hibernia; StT sends all your elementals back to the caster. The only person they'll be menacing is the theurgist if they cast more than one pet vs Hibernia. The theurgist doesn't have the luxury of a stun to act as CC on the elemental that comes back to them.
Earth / Ice and Ice / Earth Theurgists have huge power problems. Say you've been given the luxury of 10-12 uninterrupted seconds cast 4 earth elementals, then you're at about 60% power. Worse, if you're using 6 sec PBT, your high power cost ice baseline nuke with huge variance (at about 8-10% of your mana per nuke) won't really let you kill anyone - l. You'll be out of power and unable to do anything but sprint (sound familiar?).
Ice elementals are completely worthless. They can never seem to find LoS. When they do find LoS and don't move to interrupt their own slow cast, the DD that they hit with isn't even worth it - like the level 18 specline ice nuke (<100 dmg). Sometimes they go into 'melee mode' and hit like a marshmellow.
It's ok, though. Continue to try to convince people that earth and ice spec theurgists are 'just fine'. Eventually there will be no more non-bot earth and ice theurgists.
Since earth and ice theurgists are gimp anyways, you'll essentially be doing Albion a favor. Once more players lose hope that their earth or ice theurgist will ever be of any use RvR, they'll be respeccing Air or rerolling as body Sorc's. And you and your realmmates keep wondering why Albion has so many hard hitting DD nukers.
Since you think that earth and ice theurgists are 'just fine as they are', I'd welcome you to try /levelling up an earth/ice theurgist on Albion Lancelot. Send me a /tell ingame and I'll even set you up with some gold and equipment.
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{old}fludane
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my average life expectancy in RVR after casting 3-4 pets in most cases is 4 seconds.
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ShivasRegal
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bump for theurgy love
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Crandell
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Does anyone else have a valid agruement that theurgs are fine, I would love to hear something other then "YOU HAVE PETS"
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Orwyn
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Actually I meant healer as in healer classes, I would write class names with capitals. I admit I play a lot of healers (basically the first class I start on any server), and there's no Theurgist among my Alb chars, but Albion is very strong on about every server here in Europe, so I play there about twice a week and spend most of my time in Hibernia (Mid chars currently shelved, also very high populations depending on the server). Anyway, I meet Theurgists frequently in RvR ...
Now on your points:
1. Root the Savage, gain range. Your Theurgist is not better off to this melee beast (with no range) than any other cloth caster. Your point?
2. You actually want to bring in RAs? To strengthen your argument in favor of an Alb class in RvR against Hib and Mid? Please don't, or I might advice your Cleric to press BoF in the scenario against Midgard. Yes Mentalists have a powerful RA against pet mages, so what? It's not one of the most powerful out there, and very specific unlike some others which rule out 50% of the classes by ungodly resists to the tools of those classes (BoF and BAoD) or the Mega-HoTs FH and AM.
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Crandell
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Yeah and don't even mention our ALL powerful SEIGE BOLT, hmmm an RA that doesn't hurt the enemy in any way, and doesn't really even do that much damage to a keep door. Yeah find me 5 theurgs that actually have this RA PLEASE, I would love to talk with them, only theurg i've met with Siege bolt is like RR7 or something.
Give it up you have no valid points to say theurgs are fine or that we are just whinning, your first point about pets is just crazy and to even bring up the word RA with a theurg is laughable.
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Demonic_Apparition
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bump
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supax
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Here are some easy ideas, make the pets insta cast on a 1 second timer, you can pop off a mob of em really fast. Perhaps let the theurg summon up 2 pets that don't expire instead of summoning up a small, soon-to-be-dead army. How about making bladeturn use no power so earth theurgs can do something other than run bladeturn or put a 50 DD in the earth line? How about letting them summon up little paladins that can heal and fight before they die? I think there are a lot of easy things that can be done if mythic wants to try them out.
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Hyperion191
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elementals... the definition of theurg... they should be our best + but they are our best -
because of them, we are mana whore, we are the * kill me * guy, we are offical casters distraction providers, we don't have Mythic attention because we have them and what, it's enough ?
if theurgist class is * done *, then its * pets * should be worth the 12% mana they cost
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Azhrarn_Alb
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"1. Root the Savage, gain range. Your Theurgist is not better off to this melee beast (with no range) than any other cloth caster. Your point? "
Your earlier point was that elementals were the all-powerful tool for interrupting casters.
Now earth theurgists are some mystical all powerful tool for taking down Savages with root and spam pets.
Here's what would happen if you decided to do that and let's say that you are otherwise unmolested:
a. Root Savage at 1500 range. (Note now you cannot snare if root breaks since root and snare are on the same immunity timer)
b. Cast 1st earth elemental 3 sec.
c. Cast 2nd earth elemental 3 sec.
d. 1st elemental hits, breaks root
e. Savage sprints towards you, pets fall behind (sprint speed > ele speed)
f. Earth Theurgist switches to cold 180DD. Gets 2 nukes in @ ~200-250 /each.
g. Savage rips and tears. Theurgist falls dead just as 2 earth elementals catch up.
Not the way to go. If I was a wind theurg I would root, toss 1 air pet and nuke the Savage down.
Anyways, this isn't the point. The earth theurgist is supposed to be a utility caster, not a damage caster. Earth Elementals are limited utility (I used them at Gate stands in Emain to cause confusion just before a charge) and Friction is poor utility. With 1.62, PBT is of limited utility as well. Earth and Ice need something more.
"2. You actually want to bring in RAs? To strengthen your argument in favor of an Alb class in RvR against Hib and Mid? Please don't, or I might advice your Cleric to press BoF in the scenario against Midgard. Yes Mentalists have a powerful RA against pet mages, so what? It's not one of the most powerful out there, and very specific unlike some others which rule out 50% of the classes by ungodly resists to the tools of those classes (BoF and BAoD) or the Mega-HoTs FH and AM. "
The StT example is yet another point towards my point: EARTH AND ICE THEURGISTS ARE OF LIMITED UTILITY IN RvR. You went on and on about how wonderful earth pets are in RvR and how useful they were. They can't even be used against one realm without killing yourself via StT.
I'm not saying 'nerf uber StT' as it is a pretty neat RA which Hibernia can use (disclaimer: my current active character is a VW) to good effect. What I am saying is that Earth Elementals and PBT alone do not make a utility class.
If earth and ice theurgists aren't given any reason to RvR, that's ok too. Mythic should just come out and say 'no more changes for earth and ice theurgist speclines'; in which case all active theurgists will just respec Air, which is useful.
(Edit: You misattribute BAoD as an Albion 'overpowered' RA. This overpowered RA is the sole property of Uberchanters.)
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Crandell
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I for one would love for mythic to come forward and just say that they won't be touching theurgs ever, I would respec my Earth/Ice theurg in two seconds and go wind/earth so that I could at least kill someone.
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Xxtayce
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Azhrarn, lol @ your sig:
"Nerf Earth Theurgist Friction I Win Button! Think of all the Slow they can cause!"
People who think theurgists are "fine" don't play one, or play a wind theurgist. Honestly, I think the wind spec is the least "theurgist-ish" out of any we could choose. It makes you a Hib in Alb land, (stun + nuke for teh win =p), rather than a support/utility class.
I play support classes, it's what I love to do. No killspam, not out in front, but sitting in back, and helping the cause of the battle. Nobody may notice, but that makes the occasional comments of those who do notice all the more important.
I have a rejuv cleric, a shield paladin, and a earth/ice theurgist. Those are hardly the classes that want the glory and spam. I just want to be able to do what I enjoy doing, as a melee, caster, and healer... and I can't because my caster SUCKS.
At least come out and say -something- to the theurgists hanging on for dear life so we can reroll, respec, or make ourselves bots.
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AquaBlaze
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"You didn't mention though the single unique ability Theurgs got over any other caster or pet mage in any realm:"
...to suck harder, faster, better than anyone before us?
...to have only one halfway-viable spec line?
...the nigh-useless RA Siege Bolt?
...the ability that our class-defining description of "siege master" is pure bullsh*t?
Come on...I could keep this up for DAYS. ^_^
<edit> "does anyone know why theurgists are the only class that I am yet to see an 'official thread' for?"
Actually, I think we did have one at one point in time. However, I think it got locked...in either case, I guess no dev wants to have their name on this blatant problem in the game.
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miirha
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a. Root Savage at 1500 range. (Note now you cannot snare if root breaks since root and snare are on the same immunity timer)
b. Cast 1st earth elemental 3 sec.
c. Cast 2nd earth elemental 3 sec.
d. 1st elemental hits, breaks root
e. Savage sprints towards you, pets fall behind (sprint speed > ele speed)
f. Earth Theurgist switches to cold 180DD. Gets 2 nukes in @ ~200-250 /each.
g. Savage rips and tears. Theurgist falls dead just as 2 earth elementals catch up.
lol? why in hell would you want to nuke a rooted savage? nuke a supporter instead or cast a pet at a drood. recently i find myself more and more rooting and petting than nuke... if the enemys are hibs witz 50%+ spirit resi the dd is useless anyways
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Azhrarn_Alb
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"...to have only one halfway-viable spec line?"
Air is a decent all around spec - from RvR to soloing. Please don't insult Air like that. Aside from the issue that _all casters_ have with resists, I think it is about there for RvR utility.
Ice is the worst off with having to go 50 for a 180 pt DD/snare and only an AoE root for CC which is on same immunity timer as root. Even worse, the ice pet is completely worthless.
Earth spec is far better than ice since you can get that (/sarcasm) awesome insta-Friction spell which we all know is _so_ uber RvR. (/sarcasm off)
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Rheddrian
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Posted by your local 'Save the Theurgist' foundation member.
/bump
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GoldManiac
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So can we get a TA (Theurgists Anonymus) support group going?
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{old}Jaavon
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"1. Root the Savage, gain range. Your Theurgist is not better off to this melee beast (with no range) than any other cloth caster. Your point? "
ever try to root a savage that has a taunt (interrupt) at the same range as your root but is instacast? doesn't work so well.
other important thing to remember. name another caster whos main form of damage is a blue spell? or better yet a blue spell that uses a nuke that is blue to them. GG level 25 nuke from the ice pet. pheer. It does roughly 4 damage ... although it has a 50% resist rate.
" Your Theurgist is not better off to this melee beast (with no range) than any other cloth caster"
/agree. a manachanter or bonedancer or darkcarver would be useless against the savage with their 50% debuff, pet nuke, baseline stun and baseline nuke that hits for 550 damage.
-----------------------
beyond all that. i don't think you'll find many theurgists complaining about the air line. Its a perfectly viable line and faces the same issues that other nuke lines have (assuming they don't have a self debuff). The only real problem with the air line is that the mezz is like bards instamezz. Well, except it has a cast time, shorter range, smaller radius and roughly the same duration.
the problem with theurgists are in the earth and ice lines. ice has a variety of problems that are hard to describe. I can and have pointed out earths many problems in many ways, but i'll do it in 2 ways this time.
1) name another spell line (not including pet specs like enchantments) in the game with no way to damage enemies. the pets don't damage enemies. they will do roughly 100 damage per hit on a caster. On a tank it'll be roughly 70 damage. They swing a max of 7 times before death. Of course with 10s traveling time ... they max at 4 swings before death. Then they miss 3/4 of the swings. And that 100 damage is before melee resists. If its on a tank ... not only will they miss more but they can be evaded, blocked and parried. They are only blue, too, so that makes blocks parries and evades extra rare! Oh, and they don't style and have no to-hit bonus.
2) Runemaster Suppression spec line - Bladeturn (all forms), Nearsight, DD/Snare, AoE DD/Snare, Confusion
Warden Nurture spec line - 38% haste buff (theurgist baseline haste caps at 21%), Body Resistance buff, Energy Resistance buff, Spirit Resistance buff, Gimp speed (same as baseline theurgist speed), 7.5 dps damage add chant that uses 0 power, Instant Cast PBT, Bladeturn.
Theurgists Abrasion spec line - single target combat speed debuff (19% max), Earth elemental, Bladeturn (all forms).
note that as our only form of spec line doing something (since the pet is useless) we have the combat speed debuff. It'd be nice if that didn't make tanks hit harder or at least if it had that side effect ... that we got the best version of the spell (since its the only thing we really have). Instead enchanters get it in the light line with their spec nuke.
Seems we got the long end of the utility stick there. glad i chose the games utility line in the games utility caster to get all these wonderful utilities.
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Namrok
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Bump.
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Priviel | Leivirp
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{old}Jaavon
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mm ... one more thing.
I'll paraphrase daryen (i believe) on this from an argument about skalds.
"Level 50 OOP caster interrupter LFG"
oh, brb, i just got a group invite with that phrase ....
edit -
back now, i was kicked from the group when they realised i was a theurgist and not a reaver.
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AquaBlaze
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No offense meant, but Wind also does lack a lot in terms of a spec line. Wind Theurgists are kind of a cross-combination of a wimpy Wizard, mixed with an apprentice sorcerer. They get a weak DD (relative - comnared to Wizard), and a 2nd-rate mez (compared to a Sorcerer). Hell, Sorcs even get DDs that are slightly lacking from a fully-speced Air Theurgist.
So, in terms of utility (and somewhat damage)... sorcerer > theurgist.
In terms of damage, wizard > theurgist.
Yes, Earth and Ice Theurgists have the reeeel sucky end of the stick. But let's not say Wind Theurgists are all hunky-dory, shall we? In short terms, the Theurgist build sucks eggs, and all the specs need serious evaluation.
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Xxtayce
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Can someone explain the part about friction helping the tanks? I'm not quite the technical type, so I don't exactly follow
Oh, yeah, /bump for TA.
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Crandell
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I just want something done to allow me to at least kill one person before 20 people are running at me. I mean in the days of zergs and such what type of job is my earth theurg supposed to do? I make a great running man but thats about it. GIVE US SOMETHING TO BRING TO THE GROUPS!
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{old}Jaavon
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weapons work on damage per second ...
16.5 dps means that for every second it takes the weapon to swing, it does 16.5 damage. so on a 4.0 speed weapon ... 16.5dps means per swing the weapon will do 16.5x4.0 = 66 damage. Slowing that down (iirc) doesn't make him do more damage because the damage he does per swing is based on what his non-modified swing rate is ... but his style damage is based on what his modified swing rate would be.
for example ... these numbers are somewhat fake but ... say a 2h savage comes up to you to hit you. He hits for 66 damage with his 4.0 speed weapon. Now he wants to use a style (Havoc) on you. Lets say Havoc gives you 100% more damage (an extra 66). He hits you for 132 damage. Now you hit him with haste debuff for 20% (ease of numbers). That means his modified swing speed is 4.8s. His modified damage would be 4.8x16.5=79.2. So he hits you again ... still for 66 damage (because the debuff does not affect his base damage output). Then he uses his style, havoc again, for 100% more damage. Becuase the styled damage is based on true swingspeed ... he will get 100% more based on the 79.2 damage calculation so he'll hit for 66+79.2=148.2.
those numbers aren't perfect, I'm sure, nor do they reflect any real numbers ... but that is more or less how slowing down someone increases their damage per swing.
by slowing down his swing speed you decrease his overall damage over time ... but increase his chances of really cranking you hard and perhaps oneshotting you or killing you faster than a healer can heal you.
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GoldManiac
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I'm getting tired of arguing with these people who come to this thread thinking they're experts on theurgists telling us how wrong we experienced theurgists are and how uber our class is.
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FulgoreStylee
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cold debuff would make you the next chanter. we all know there is only 1 cock sucking realm in this game, this is hib, until you suck better cock than them, youll never get their goodness. good luck dear theurgists.
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FulgoreStylee
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goldmaniac
that game owns me, in fact, im about to play it right now
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{old}Jaavon
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btw ... what most theurgists are asking for isn't out of this world nor is it overpowering.
none of us want to be uber, per say, just interesting and fun to play.
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Keleroy
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/bump
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{old}Jaavon
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first page, thx.
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Shadowmage
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I have been earth from day one and I will not give it up. I want my siege spells.
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GoldManiac
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It's obvious that we're not going to get anything this patch as it is the housing patch and going live in less than a week. Here's hoping for 1.64.
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Heladus
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Bump to the top ... go go Theurgimp love.
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motowntheta
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I'll second that ....
Give us back some of our pets that you gave to the Animists.... they were our ideas first
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Crandell
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Goldmanic yeah I believe you are right, they are trying to get housing in before SWG hits the stores, but I really don't think we need fluff, I just want some sort of balance.
Last night in emain I was killed 28 times in 3 hours, out of those 28 times I was killed 20 times by archers, wtf is that. my pbt stands no chance now and I can't run fast enough for cover, there really isn't even a point into going out in rvr.
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ShivasRegal
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My thoughts have been stated many times over by many people here......so......
bump for theurgy love
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{old}Jaavon
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lord ... its almost to page 3 already.
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Crandell
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bump for love
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Big_Twinky
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>>>>
Owyn? Please tell me you are a old player that made a new VN account. That way your words can have some small bit of validity.
IF you arent please shut the hell up and take your 14 post self out of here and dont come back till you are a bit older.
<<<<
Although I don’t share Owyn’s views, someone’s post count should in no way affect their thoughts. Just because someone is new to the boards doesn’t mean they are new to the game. Just because someone is new to the game doesn’t mean they don’t have prior experience. Just because they don’t have prior experience doesn’t mean they aren’t smart and cant rationalize
Now, back onto the topic..
I’d love insta cast pets with a 3 sec timer instead of a 3 sec castable pet. So you could unload a pet (or more) while running or even casting another spell.
I’d also like to have a version of each pet available at high spec that would spawn at the targets feet and not at the caster’s. This would not be insta cast like the regular pets.
Those are just some small changes that would enhance the pet usage.
Add to that the other requests of new spells in Ice and Earth and I think many theurgists would be happy.
Oh, and /bump
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{old}Procifica
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I like the pet ideas in the last post. Theurgist pets certainly need SOMETHING to improve them...its sad when you can spam 4 to 5 ice pets on a yellow con and it STILL won't go down 1/2 life even!
/bump
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{old}jakedomino
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"my average life expectancy in RVR after casting 3-4 pets in most cases is 4 seconds."
Mine's about 10 seconds, but I have high resists.
/bump for long overdue theurgist fixes
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ShivasRegal
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ttt
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{old}Telidor
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/bump
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Azhrarn_Alb
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"I’d love insta cast pets with a 3 sec timer instead of a 3 sec castable pet. So you could unload a pet (or more) while running or even casting another spell."
That solution would overpower air and wouldn't deal with earth's problems (unless earth pets started proccing a snare).
The most fair modifications to Earth and Ice Theurgist lines can be found by simply reading the recommendations contained within the Theurgist TL's report(s).
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AquaBlaze
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Afternoon bump. ^_^
For the love of all that is holy...
FIX THEURGISTS!
PS. Vote Quimby!
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Xxtayce
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FulgoreStylee, maybe it's just because I just woke up, but that was one of the funniest things I've read on the boards in a little while. =p
I think the general populace wants the ice debuff in the earth line, as most full earth theurgists spec secondary ice (to my knowledge). All it'd do is probably make ice have around the same damage as air, with an even higher power cost than before, since you'd have to cast two spells.
Has this been suggested before? Give the snare from ice pets to earth pets, and let ice pets cast either a regular cold dd or dd/debuff. They don't nuke as hard as chanter pets, and have hella LoS issues, so I don't see it being too bad, no?
And thank you, Jaavon. I'd assumed it was something along those lines, but had never really heard much about the slow/dps stuff. Puts to light some of the things I'd been hearing in this thread.
Bump for theurgist love preez!
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Crandell
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Hey look up in the air its a bird its a plane, nope its a BUMP!
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Demonic_Apparition
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baaack on top
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{old}Jaavon
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theres only 17 different threads about left axe on the first page and 28 about 'midgard is dying here due to mystics 1.62 patch - you bastards!' ... 0 for theurgists who are, and have been, more broken than anything in midgard before and after 1.62
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Crandell
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mids are just mad, who cares fix theurfs
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Balthar_IV
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Please fix the Theurgists
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Demonic_Apparition
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I was thinking about this the other day; with trials of atlantis coming out and MASTER levels being made, which will supposedly give more skills to all the classes, maybe Mythic plans to give us our justice then? And if not, what will they do when it comes time to make the new Theurgist skills... untill now we don't even know if Mythic has made plans to fix us at all, but they will have to think something up with ToA. Also maybe in the same way they will make the currently overpowered classes not as overpowered, by giving them crappy new skills?
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{old}Kaladim
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fix theurgists please
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Crandell
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bump for love
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Demonic_Apparition
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bump
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_Arandal_
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New Atlantis Theurgist Spells:
Blow Bubbles
Uses 45% of theurgists power to create a field of bubbles that nobody can see, and everyone can bypass. Doesn't do anything
O wait... we have that power now.
Ice Elemental:
Uses 12% power, attempts to cast low level DD on enemy player, but floats to surface of waterworld where it enters melee with an iceberg.
hmmmm...
/sarcasm off
FIX THEUGISTS
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AquaBlaze
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"Ice Elemental:
Uses 12% power, attempts to cast low level DD on enemy player, but floats to surface of waterworld where it enters melee with an iceberg."
What better ability to take out the Leo DiCaprio builds out there? This makes my character ENTIRELY worthwhile. ^_^
Really, in all seriousness, the new expansion will bring the same ol' "theurgist love": Mythic ignoring us and laughing at our pathetic build in the background.
Is there a reason why we pay for this?
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-GReaper-
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bump4tehwin
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Demonic_Apparition
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bump
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oxedus
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/cast level 50 bump for love
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Crandell
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bump
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Azhrarn_Alb
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"Is there a reason why we pay for this?"
There's no reason why you can't spec to the non-broken air specialization and start having some fun.
If you want to play a better support class with some decent damage utility maybe play a minstrel or sorcerer.
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{old}jakedomino
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Mythic:
PLEASE fix theurgists. They need help BAD.
Theurgists: worst mage class in the game.
Theurgist Earth Spec line: worst single spec line in the game.
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supax
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How about a Gimpilator spell, it turns any enemy target into an equal level earth theurg for 1 hour or until they are dead? If they are so bad, this would be one wicked spell
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Crandell
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You know i'm kinda tired of people saying why don't you just switch to something else everytime we say theurgs are broken. The fact of the matter is why even bother having Earth and Ice spec if no one is playing them. Why put 6 sec pbt in a broken line, albion lacks pbt for this reason and this reason alone, no one wants to play earth theurg to give only one ability to everyone else. I mean I could run around saying well hey if you don't like your class then switch, archers you whinning then go play something else, wizards you whinning go play something else. Earth theurgs and Ice theurgs are VERY MUCH broken, why bother having three spec lines if you only can play one, thats a failing grade in my book.
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{old}Jaavon
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"You begin casting Bump!"
"You have casted Bump!"
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ShivasRegal
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BUMP goes the weasel.......
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{old}Traxdurz
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I'd say fix em, but they really can't be fixed till Mid gets fixed. Doing them at the same time would be fine tho.
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Xxtayce
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Wah, start your own "help mid" post, I'm sure there's plenty of them going around. I bump MidRA posts constantly, without a mention of, "You can have your group RA's, but only if the theurgist gets fixed." Silly, no? But thanks for the bump!
Love the theurgists. You know, when you go to get a new puppy, and you see that ugly one with funky fur all over its face sitting in the corner by itself, you feel pity for it, consider it cute and take it home.
Theurgist: The unloved ugly puppy of the litter! Take us home and love us and feed us and let us grow to be big protective dogs? Please?
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Voivold
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Mid is FINE!!!!!!!!!!!! the only thing that needs to be fixed is the players.
anyways, plz fix theurg. during the last year ive played ive had 6 sec PBT once. and only twice ive grouped with a theurg that had pbt. in a year..... sad
granted i dont know any theurgs but i always seem to run everything else. almost
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Crandell
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bump
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{old}jakedomino
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Midgard needs to be nerfed more and harder (insta-AE-stun, insta-AE-mez, Savages and Bone Dancers are all overpowered and need to be nerfed) and theurgists need long overdue help NOW!
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_Arandal_
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Well, I for one do not want to call for a nerf of anyone, just that Theurgists get the upgrades that they need.
No nerfs...
Just the "upward tweaks" promised by the Herald o so long ago.
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AquaBlaze
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"There's no reason why you can't spec to the non-broken air specialization and start having some fun."
Well, that really helps us out who foolishly believed Mythic would give a flying %^*@ about their product. I don't WANT, nor do I have the time to roll up another high level character because Mythic prefers to live with their head up their ass. Mythic should get off its fluff duff and actually FIX the huge, gaping flaws in its program.
"If you want to play a better support class with some decent damage utility maybe play a minstrel or sorcerer."
Again, what's wrong with asking that a support class be on par with other support classes? Or hell, asking that we at least get returned to pre-1.62 worthlessness. The LAST thing Earth/Ice...hell, even Wind needed was the neutering of PBT.
"You begin casting Bump!"
"You are stunned and cannot move!"
"You are stunned and cannot move!"
"You are stunned and cannot move!"
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{old}Jaavon
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bump.
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Crandell
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bump
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GoldManiac
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Theurgist transforms into elemental!! Theurmental runs at enemy! Theurmental swings once - miss!! Timer up! You have died fighting for your realm and lose no experience. Type /release to return to your bindstone. Type /delete to play a better class.
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AquaBlaze
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Actually...that change would extend my battlefield life expectancy by 2x. Can we have that change Mythic? I'd feel sooo much more useful. ^_^
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Crandell
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Just keeping this thread alive and bumped will hopefully show that there are a lot of people that think theurgs need love. Even those that have never played theurgs believe they need some serious help. The ideas are all here mythic, just do something.
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_Arandal_
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Although I doubt it... we did this before with 1600 posts or some incredible number, and we got ignored.
I just want to remind people of the "upward tweaking" promised 8 patches ago or so.
And in fact, since that time, our Damage Add has been nerfed, PBT has been nerfed, and a bunch of indirect nerfs have come our way.
So much for UPWARD.
edit: I don't have dyslexia, but my fingers sometimes act like it.
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AquaBlaze
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"I just want to remind people of the "upward tweaking" promised 8 patches ago or so."
<Mythic edit> Sorry, bad dev wrote that line...he keeps screwin' up directions. We meant DOWNWARD, not UPWARD. Again, we are not sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused.
Well...that explains a few things...
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Crandell
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bump because a earth theurg can't kill anything
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Crandell
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oh and the fact that hibs can send our pets back at us, gee thats just great, so not only are my pets draining my power, and not only are they weak but they turn around on me and kill me, gee how freakin nice is that.
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Demonic_Apparition
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bump
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oxedus
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bump is all the power i have
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Kaolla_Nut
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/bump FIX EARTH THUERGS
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Demonic_Apparition
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fix earth theurgists but specially ice... you never see a 40+ ice theurgist, though you might see a 40+ earth if u get lucky
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{old}fludane
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have simpathy for theurgist ice line
the line is obviously poor and lack of uniqueness
BUMP!
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JohnM81
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keep up the good work guys!
Fight the good fight.
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{old}fludane
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that's right show us love mythic!!!!
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Demonic_Apparition
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back to the top
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AquaBlaze
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OMG, Theurgists still have some kind of power? NERF /BUMP!
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GoldManiac
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Nothing coming this week because of housing (like that's different than any other week). But I'll keep bumping until we get some kind of response.
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Crandell
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I love seeing this now
The arrow bypasses your magical barrier and you are hit for upwards of 600 damage.
Wow gee thanks mythic for making my pbt pretty much worthless.
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{old}jakedomino
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Mythic, fix theurgists NOW!
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luelle
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Bump
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Crandell
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bump
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GiantAshSnake
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Theurgist really needs some help.
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GoldManiac
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Monday coming up again. How long do we have to wait Mythic?
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{old}jakedomino
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Mythic: FIX THEURGISTS.
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Crandell
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Well as you said 1.63 is going to be housing, 1.64 is going to be fixing bugs regarding housing, 1.65 we will begin our normal patching and ignoring theurgs. SO don't expect anything until that new expansion comes out, thats when they will give us a water elemental and make it even worse then the earth.
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{old}muduki1
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ok how about this for a fix
just some ideas
1 make the pets work off of conc. instead and make thier cost increase with each pet
sooo first pet cast of each spec cost 10% second cost 20% 3rd cost 30% that way a single line spec theurgist could have at most 4 pets but a tri-specced theurgist could have 6 pets second make them last 2 minutes like the animist fnf pets they still wouldn be broken because theurgist pets dont aquire(sp) new targets like animist pets can. you might want to allow them to be crowd controled again though since they last longer than 30 secs
another idea is to allow theurgist to keep thier first summoned pet like animist get one controlled turret. would give a theurgist a reason to cast those melee buffs while soloing. this way they could send thier pet to attack even when on the run might help out the theurgist ability in the rvr field.
my last idea is to make them a little like the bonedancer instead of the animist where the bonedancer gets one pet and then secondary pets that he doesnt control you could do teh same with theurgist make thier spec pet the permanint one and the others that he cast would be under the control of the theurgists pet. also you would need to cap how many pets they could have like the way the bonedancer is set up.
yet one other idea for the earth line that i think would be just damn cool not sure how effective it would be but still. make a groundtarget ae that pops out earth elementals on each target you can make them last only 20 secs or so whatever is decided to make it not broken i jsut think it would be cool to drop out a bunch of pets like that would be killer to do so right before rushing intoa keep after doors are down and would greatly help out our "seige master" role
dunno just tossing out ideas and please disregard my horrible spelling/typing.
muduki 39 earth theurgist (retired)
tacti 14 animist
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Kaolla_Nut
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FIX TheUrGiStS PlEAse!!!!
/bump
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oxedus
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spam the bumps 4thewin
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Holwyn
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Give me a reason to play my Theurgist again!
/bump
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{old}superhero12
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the fact that the air line is completely overpowerded is enough reason to play. 26% spirit resists and I'm still getting nuked for 500+ dmg from air theurgists from a realm that has 0 power relics. Oh and you get an ae mezz? Oh, and getting zerged by 5 pets stunning me to the point I get to move half a second every 4 seconds it's overpowered either. If you can't beat any class in this game with an air theurgist, then you suck and you need to goto Kmart and buy some skill.
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{old}jakedomino
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"the fact that the air line is completely overpowerded is enough reason to play."
Ho, ho, ho. A weak nuke, a weak pet that takes forever to get there and then dies immediately and that takes 5% of the theurg's power to cast at any level, and a useless debuff? Back away from the bong, dude.
"26% spirit resists and I'm still getting nuked for 500+ dmg from air theurgists from a realm that has 0 power relics."
Well that can happen if you RvR at level 36. Otherwise it can't. Try levelling some and then come back and get hit for 150 like everyone else.
"Oh and you get an ae mezz?"
Yes, but one with the shortest range one in the game. Everyone else's mez outranges it substantially, which means that the theurgist is mezzed before he can get into range to cast it.
"Oh, and getting zerged by 5 pets stunning me to the point I get to move half a second every 4 seconds it's overpowered either."
Chain stunning was removed from the game in way back in the 1.52 patch. You might check the patch files before you post a blatant lie like this, otherwise everyone will know immediately that you are nothing but a total liar.
"If you can't beat any class in this game with an air theurgist, then you suck and you need to goto Kmart and buy some skill."
No, YOU need to go there and ask them for a brain and some clues: theurgists are the weakest mage class in the game. Want to see power? Play an enchanter or a runemaster. Want to see a broken class? Play a theurgist.
Want to see ignorance? Look in a mirror.
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motowntheta
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FYI
Thats 12% Power per Pet...
Air Pets still chain stun afaik
But still fix earth theurgist we still suck
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{old}fludane
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make it ice too
do u see ice theurgist around?
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Crandell
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Iono I have never seen anyone shut down by an air pet, this whole chain stunning arguement is a joke, I have NEVER casted a air pet or two and seen the person not be able to move. Stop making up stuff and post your valid arguemenets on why theurgs are SO "OVERPOWERING".
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Demonic_Apparition
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bump
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ShivasRegal
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really fix theurgy.....oh yeah, bump.
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GoldManiac
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The problem with the air pets that causes everyone to complain is people are stupid.
Stunned for one second, able to move for 5, stunned for 1 again able to move for 8, stunned again, and meanwhile the person stood still the entire time because all he thinks is "OMG WTF this suxors I can't move!!" If the person actually knew what they were doing, the theurgist would be long dead, and the elemental would just be a minor nucience.
2 absolutely horrible lines and 1 mediocre line. Yes, I can beat many classes 1 on 1, but in a RVR game, how often do you fight 1 on 1?
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Demonic_Apparition
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bump
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JohnnyShotMe
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Please restrict all posting to housing related posts. Nothing else is allowed on the front page.
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oxedus
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hahaha that was a good one
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Crandell
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As I said we will not see any sort of love not until 1.65, this patch is houses, next patch is fixing houses, then maybe just maybe they will start doing class balance again. EXCEPT US THOUGH
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GoldManiac
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At least I can use my theurgist to farm some money for housing. Looks like I'll need to do a lot of that.
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PaintedTarget
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Fix the earth line please
its one of the worst spec lines for any class in the game
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Keroth
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/bump
1. Incr. range on theurg mez to 1500. Its about time, every other ranged mezz in game is 1500 range, even the instas, so i really cant see why theurg mezz is still 1250.
2. Give theurgists some goodies for speccing into earth. I specced my theurgist air/earth from the start of the game, still have my full respec available, just because the earth line and ice line suck. Its a fact. Speccing earth isnt really worth it, or do you think ppl like to play a PBT-Bot? All other PBT-classes in game have some useful abilities they can use while they run PBT, earth theurg only have the earth pets, which take way too much power.
3. Fix the theurgist RA. Either increase the damage of siege bolt and reduce reuse timer, so that its worth to buy it, or remove it and give us something new. I dont know any theurgists who actually buy siege bolt, its just a waste of realm-skill-points.
4. Give theurgists some form of AOE-damage, maybe a GTAOE, since theurgists are the "siege-casters".
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Crandell
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Bump
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Latric
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Should at least give the Theurgy a free house so they will have a good place to park while we play our alts.
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Crandell
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Kinda like a large retirement house for all the theurgs to go to.
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Crandell
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bump
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Demonic_Apparition
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/b
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AquaBlaze
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"the fact that the air line is completely overpowerded is enough reason to play"
...my Earth Theurgist? Riiight. You logic is brimming over with your wit. Pffft...read the pages of evidence to the contrary. Wind is an OK line, but it isn't a win-all. Plus, having one half-decent spec line doesn't constitute a class as "balanced", moron.
Ya know...he's right. There's a lot of "overpowdered" Theurgists I know. Doughnut, anyone?
"Should at least give the Theurgy a free house so they will have a good place to park while we play our alts."
Actually, given the constant ignoring and several "non-direct" nerfs, Mythic should be paying US for this cr@p. Playing an Earth Theurgist to give my realmmates 6 sec bubble has long since slipped as a "fun" & useful support line. Now playing an Earth Theurgist is a chore, and only works whenever you have the luxury to fight parties that aren't working their way around your bubble. Thanks again Mythic.
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oxedus
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another bump for a fix
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GoldManiac
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1.64 going on test soon. I don't care what the theme of it is, include theurgist help!!
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Dayved
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A BD gets a 1500 range insta DD!!
Just give me 1500 range castable mezz, so I can at least compete.
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{old}jakedomino
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/bump for help for the worst caster class in the game
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Keroth
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@superhero12
"...overpowered air line..."
the dd is 209 base value, just like chanter specline light nuke, eldritch specline light nuke, sorc specline body nuke, and its even weaker than the runemaster specline darkness nuke and the wizard specline fire nuke. Many ppl just think its overpowered since they always thought "spirit-resistance isnt that important, no need to cap it". That you get nuked for 500+ CONSTANTLY with 26% spirit resist is just a lie, nothing else.
AE-mezz: 1250 range, 31 sec duration at 49 spec, which no air theurgs specs, and 27 sec duration at 39 spec. Almost all air theurgs only use the level 39 aoe mezz which even raises the resist rates on the mezz, and most theurgists only use the AE-mezz in emergency situations anyways, due to it low range. Its actually not even worth to be mentioned.
That ppl always complain bout the "chainstunning air pets" is getting boring. OK, if a pure tank without high determination thinks an air theurg is an easy foe then its his own fault, 5 or 6 pets can stun you pretty frequently, but they do not chainstun, you are prolly stunned 1 second every 2 sec, which gives the theurgist enough time to nuke you dead while you try to close up to him, but thats it. Smart pure tanks without any ranged attacks just shouldnt try to beat a theurg 1 vs 1 unless they got determination 4 or 5, which reduces the stun to "almost not noticable". I once attacked a Zerker and sent 8 pets on him and he still kept charging damn fast towards me and pwned me, he has determination 4 and the stun from my pets just didnt take enough effect to slow him down. Most other tanks like Champions or Thanes just insta interrupt your cast which gives em usually enough time to charge into melee range.
In RvR the pets are mostly just a nice way to distract bards/healers from healing/mezzing, but since pets suck alot of power and last only 20 seconds they arent overpowered at all.
Maybe you should play an air theurgist before you start telling lies here Superhero12.
Theurgist definately need some love, every other caster is way more powerful in RvR than theurgists. THats why theurgists seem to die out.
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Keroth
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/bump :P
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Crandell
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bump
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PaintedTarget
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bump
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GoldManiac
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Theurgist needs RVR help
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Crandell
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bump
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ShivasRegal
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bump for some theurgy loving
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Deja.vu
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Ice and Earth need help air is not uber (execpt 1 on 1) I would be okay if they just left Air alone and helped eaths power issues and fixed the gimped ice pets I would be happy.
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GoldManiac
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Too many housing threads. Got to keep bumping.
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{old}jakedomino
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/rude to housing, fix theurgists.
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Warlade
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"You begin to cast the Bump spell"
"The thread is bumped ! "
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{old}Jaavon
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bump because air is vastly overpowered *snicker* I can't believe they allow a class to have a nuke delve at 209. nerf them pls.
:\
nerf me more pls.
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{old}muduki1
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incoming bump......
/bump
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{old}Itsallaboutyou
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/bump
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AquaBlaze
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Yes...I agree. Anybody posting here who feels the need to use "overpowered" and "Theurgist" in the same sentence...please, beat yourself down with this lead pipe here. We're too tired & sick of you Trolls to keep tabs.
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motowntheta
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Hey we've been broken for a much longer time than housing fix us first
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{old}Dragonsw45
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just spec cookie cutter theurg and and stop whining already...
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{old}fludane
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beware.... bump zergs are coming from m1
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oxedus
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i read some posts awhile back
there was suggestion on new elementals
they call it ARMY OF ELEMENTALS
I kinda like the idea
what about having:
Earth line:
Earth elemental army that when cast pops like 5 at once and does GTAOE
or maybe the elemental army would pop and do AOE melee damage or something around that idea
Ice line
Ice elemental army also pops like 5 at once
and does PBAE
Air line
elemental army pops at once and maybe stun and do certain damage... dunno im not sure
prolly some of you may think its stupid or its not really what we need. especially given the fact pet already consume much power that earth line needs reliable offensive weapon that helps survivability.
dunno keep bumping and bring some ideas guys!!!
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{old}fludane
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ooh i kinda like that idea on ice line
army of elementals that pops at once and does PBAE that could be cool
it would be useful
ANOTHER BUMP!!!! screw housing, we want a fix!
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{old}fludane
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im bored so why not do another bump
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GoldManiac
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Test patch day: Remember Theurgists!!
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oxedus
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waaaaaaaaaa have pity on theurgist :P
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CSM-Fido
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Subject:
Theurgists: They need some loving..
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accordign to the albs on these boards....
Different classes, different realms, different abilities.
Thurgists are fine and working as intended.
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That evil is the only thing that always comes back to me.
aka the Shameless Hopefuls
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Njorl
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Hmm,
I guess Theurgists were intended to be ineffective RP cows then.
Njorl
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Baborela
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I went full earth on my Theurgist with cold as back up. I almost have enough mana to kill a blue & with serenity 3 I only have to wait 5 minutes to get mana for the next kill I got all of this for about 50 days actual play time.
I retired her and made a Shaman just to find if you make one that is playable everyone whines for end regen 5 which takes 42 skill in a line good only to buff with. Then mythic saw fit to help the shaman get groups easier by making them needed close to the group to continue getting the end regen but they also made it impossible to have enough buffs available to keep any on oneself so I get to do without buffs and guess who is usually first to die in the group now! So no end regen for anyone and no RPs for me. Makes for a ton of fun in RvR.
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Baborela
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ack lag posted twice
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Demonic_Apparition
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your still a hell of a better support class then a theurgist is. If you go for spec buffs, then not only does it make those around you that you can buff very effective, but you still have baseline heals to keep people alive. Not to mention you get chain armor and more life then a theurgist... which helps to some degree when trying not to die. If the argument is which is funner in rvr... I think healing people is funner then running pbt /sticking someone. And if its an argument of which is better support... I think healing and uber buffs, the possible friggs, ect are much better support then 6s pbt which is useless vs archers now, and one that goes away in 0 seconds cause ur ded before you know it. Want to trade me your shaman? I'll take it over my gimp earth theurgist any day
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{old}jakedomino
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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/bump for long-overdue fixes to a broken class
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GoldManiac
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Were're not saying theurgist needs to be balanced against any other specific class. We're saying that theurgists are gimped and barely playable, and we want that to change. Normalize mez range and fix resists across the board (for everyone) and air becomes a decent spell line. Eath and ice though will take a whole lot more.
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{old}Jaavon
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"Different classes, different realms, different abilities.
Thurgists are fine and working as intended. "
that is the most ignorant post i have read regarding the theurgist and their abilities.
nerf me.
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Kaolla_Nut
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Fix Theurg's, Ice and Earth especially!!
/meow!!
/bump
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Crandell
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bump for love
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CSM-Fido
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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"Different classes, different realms, different abilities.
Thurgists are fine and working as intended. "
that is the most ignorant post i have read regarding the theurgist and their abilities.
nerf me.
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Jaavon LostHisPants - 50th Earth Theurgist, Gryphon Knight, Lancelot
/sigh
Ninjac, can i have your babies?
When you qoute someone, try quoting EVERYTHING they say.
Ive seen many albs say exactly what i posted. I never said nerf thurgist. They are working as intended.
-----signature-----
Watch me turn the stones. That evil comes out.
And why would I set it free? It always comes back to me.
That evil is the only thing that always comes back to me.
aka the Shameless Hopefuls
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Big_Twinky
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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time for bumpage
With all the bad vibes going around with housing and pricing, now would be a GREAT time to put in some positive and help the theurgists
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ding dong
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ShivasRegal
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bump back to the first page
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Seitz2
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/bump
Nothing to say...it's all been said
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{old}Daltarr
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With wizards having gotten a good RA recently, I think theurgists may be the biggest RP cow in the game now. It's still close between them and wizards go. If you choose Albion, do yourself a favor and avoid Elementalists I tell you that.
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Eager_Igraine
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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The Earth line needs some major fun factor. There is only so much buffing and bubbling a player can do without falling asleep.
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I radiate more heat than light.
I know what you're trying to do but you're just sailing another failboat over the falls. - imaloon1
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Sarumz
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/bump
It's not all been said...Ladies and Gents the Earth line got hit with an undocumented change yayaya now our totally useless speed debuff ....not only does it do sod all but now it won't even interrupt that archer who is about to PA your group nor will it interrupt that caster who is about to debuff and nuke you for 700....now tell me Theurgists are working as intended. MooCow
/rant off
Sarumz 50 Theurgist <DoA> Lancelot
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Crandell
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This is ashame, here we were told that debuffs would interrupt and now they don't, wow another thing mythic has screwed up on, PLEASE HELP THEURGS
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{old}Trisana_Chandeler
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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How long have theurgists been begging for fixes?Mythic isn't going to help them,so learn to love your theurgist now/cancel your account/or delete your theurgist.I deleted mine,its gotten ridiculous.
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Arelania
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Speed attack debuff not interrupting archers anymore? Now the earth line is completely useless
Please help theurgists!
/bump
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{old}jakedomino
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Mythic, FIX THE BROKEN THEURGIST CLASS!!!
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Big_Twinky
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Is this the same for the Cabalist attack speed debuff??
Either way, now the earth line is in WORSE shape than ever
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GoldManiac
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Getting tired of waiting. I'm starting to think of myself less as a theurgist and more as my alts.
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Alisma_
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I play an earth theurg in RVR (45 earth).
Keeping my 6 sec PBT up and buffing my group every 10 minutes takes almost all my power.
When I encounter enemies, I can cast my earth pets (12% fixed power) or attack speed debuff. That is all.
Any other spell is non-spec (which means it's power inefficient, and I'm already low on available power), or at a very low spec (remember resists are based on spell level).
This is why it's frustrating -- your class defining spell (pets) often are completely wasted because the target outruns them, or is already dead by the time the pet has lumbered over.
Alisma 50 EARTH theurg Iseult
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Belamy_OBA
Title: Advocate for Blunt Force Trauma to solve problems
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I am all for fixing Theurgists especially the earth and ice lines. I started as air ice not wantting to be a cookie cutter earth. then they made air a fotm. I changed to full earth since I knew pbt would be lost because of the change. Now days earth spec is a myth. I walk in to AC and have to turn away grps because Ihave a 6 sec PBT. The archer changes have made the few of us left decide not to rvr. We need somethng for us to be viable. Otherwise Mythic should let us spec out of Theurgist and become Air or Ice Wizzys and turn all Air in to a 4th spec line for Wizzys.... the Air Wiz
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WoW -Belamy - Holy Paladin Cenarion Circle -Kamitsu - NE Rogue Cenarion Circle Use to play UO, DAoC, SB, AO, AC2, and never EQ http://s1.darkpirates.com/c.php?uid=80756 http://www.fallensword.com/?ref=1150614
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{old}blackhunter13
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maybe you just need some skill. 5 minutes ago I was just chain stunned by air theurgist pets. 3-4 second stun on each. So you all can shut your stupid ass lies up now how they don't chain stun anymore. I don't care if mythic said in 1.52. They also said in that patch that once you get over 1000 crafting you have a 1/6 chance for an mp, nice lie as well. Guess what losers, we're not all RR7+ and can afford determination 4 after getting the essentials, fa, fa2, ip, purge. Ice and rock line I agree, but you losers lose all credibility when you carry your crying over to the air line. Seriously, if you can't kill a target who is perma interupted by zerg pets, then you just suck.
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Afio
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Bumped
Glad I still have that respec
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I'm not old, I'm crunchy.
IMHO: "You know your poop,Lyndrek"
"Unless you try to do something beyond what you have already mastered, you will never grow." - Ronald E. Osborn
I stole the above from Bonk's facebook, thanks.
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{old}Trisana_Chandeler
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blackhunter,you should roll a theurgist,THEN you'll see what we're talking about.
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Obsideus
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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iz not broken ! just go air
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DISH Network facebook.com/mssievers http://gimpchimp.etilader.com/s.php?u=obsideus Prev. Games: WAR, EVE, DAOC, WoW, LOTR
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Sarumz
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lol someone got owned by a theurgist...
And just a fyi, before you start bitching on a theurgist thread if you had half the brains to read 99% of the posts on this thread you would see that NONE are bitching about air. The vast majority of pissed off theurgists are earth/ice and before you go telling us to "cry more noobs" or "learn tactics" you try to lvl a theurgist to 50 in ice or earth. Besides that our last tactic if not air specced was our insta debuff (in the earth line) and that has been taken from us...I think you sir need to learn tactics if you got owned by a theurgist lol. I was going to cut you some slack but after reading your post on the midgard thread ......
Sarumz 50 Theurgist <DoA> Lancelot
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Njorl
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"maybe you just need some skill. 5 minutes ago I was just chain stunned by air theurgist pets. 3-4 second stun on each."
Wow, those air pets must have bought some RA's or something. The stun is not nearly that long.
Air theurgists ARE one of the most powerful classes in the game when it comes to ganking solo morons with crappy equipment. I will be the first to admit that.
Njorl
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Demonic_Apparition
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3-4 seconds, its been testecd in and out my friend and they dont stun for 4 seconds. And if you didnt have the SKILLS to run away from those pets for a few seconds before they got to you, then your the dumb one. Oh and that theurgist would have wasted his whole power bar on you. Wind line is not powerfull enough to justify Ice/Earth to suck so bad. Each other realm has just as powerfull and more powerfull lines, and so does albion. Learn to use sprint and watch your surroundings, forget about skill for now you need common sense.
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Crandell
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once again the only agurement for theurgs is the chain air pet, PLEASE SHUTUP they don't stun you for very long, and frankly if you are going one on one with a air theurg and you lose you should just give up.
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Rygga
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One of the side effects of spamming every server board, Crandell, is that inevitably some undesirables show up.
THEURGS ARE PERFECT AS THEY ARE! IN FACT THEY ARE TOO POWERFUL! NERF THEURGS!!
this has been a warning.
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Crandell
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Hey you know what I invite all to come here and post, its a free country and all opinions are welcome, thats why this is a OPEN BOARD, wow such an amazing concept. The fact is I want people to come here and express their thoughts about Theurgists just so we can see what others think about theurgs, if the best thing you can say is
"THEURGISTS ARE FINE" but yet you have no proof then my friend you are a moron and shouldn't even bother posting. But if you can come to this board and say
"You thuergs are fine because of this and this and this" and provide proof and good data then by all means I welcome you.
And Remember 99% of this board is not talking about the AIR SPEC, we are talking about the EARTH AND ICE SPEC.
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BrockmooreWallace
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Siege Bolt
Well here it is, for 10 points you can do this too friends. A few notes though:
- the first 2 times I tried to use it, it Missed.
- a Scout using Crit shot can do 7500 damage in the same 5 minute period.
- on relic doors it does around 300 damage.
Even our special RA is 100% garbage.
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{old}Fryx
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I agree, Theurgists need some loving since they lack of the spells that should have been implement in game a bit after release. However I don't think the problems we face today result of the creation process of the theurgists spec lines but more of how the game evolved. Just think about SC and those uber resists( I have myself everything capped).
Mythic has to admit that they missed their goal when creating the theurgist as a siege master. What to do from now? Make the theurgist a siege master or a reliable class with rounded up abilities.
If we find an answer to this then we can do something to fixe the theurgist class.
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{old}Liddelbit
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Get in line right behind all the eldy's that *have* to spec mana in order to be of any use. Theurg's are in the same position, 3 spec lines, 1 viable. My sympathies go out for you, but don't expect much from Mythic. Play the viable version of your class, or change classes, it's that simple. Do we all like it, no. Is there much we can do about it, I think not. It's apparent to me that Mythic's agenda is not driven by what we want, but what they want. It will always be this way, get used to it.
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_Arandal_
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"maybe you just need some skill. 5 minutes ago I was just chain stunned by air theurgist pets. 3-4 second stun on each. "
LIAR!
that is all I can say. Show logs buddy.
Air pets stun for 1 second.
1
ONE
UNO
OOOOOOONNNNNNEEEEEEE
second.
that's it.
ok, maybe you are not a liar... just seemed like that long. but still... its really one second.
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{old}Theyric
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Animists are worse off then you are .
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Koenma1
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bumping this thread, hope Mythic takes a look.
Give Theurgists a better RA than Siege bolt
Add to, tweak, or fix the Ice and Earth lines.
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Atomic54
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Theurgists have become a completly poinltess class in this game, even more since one of our main tools (out of the very few that we have)the attack speed debuff no longer interrupts. It is true that other nuking classes that can not debuff their own damage type are also suffering.
Mythic needs to adress the issue with resists. If they truly intend to leave resists the way they are then ALL casters must be given the ability to debuff their own damage since not being able to do so resulsts in pitiful damage for this caster.
Some casting classes are able to adapt via other means that are relied on (ae mez,pbae etc.) Theurgists have no form of ae damage. The level 39 ae mez is resisted more then 50% of the time while my Sorc's level 36 mez is hardly ever resisted.
A fair way IMO to help this class while helping casters of all realms is to give each of them the ability to debuff their spec dd. At the moment some classes can debuff their own damage while some can not. The casters that can not are the ones who are truly suffering.
Atomical Sol
R8L9 Unicorn Knight of Tristan.
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{old}Rokar
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I too think theurgists need help. Air is Ok, an Average line. But earth and Ice just blow. The RA Siege Bolt is all but useless. When I made my theugy I did so because i saw they were the "Masters Of Siege" I dont really bother to go to keep takes anymore im really just a liablity there as I just use up all the power of the necros as they try to keep up with my power. And the Clerics keep wasting power on rezing me, when they could be using that same power to rez one of the more useful classes.
But compounded on that is also (as other have said) the general gimpyness of casters throughout all realms.
Mythic logic:
Casters can cause wide spread havoc with AE mezes and Nukes and debuffs THIS means they must have little to no defense so they can be put down fast.
Accual Events as ignored by mythic:
Casters are put down FAST! So they never cause any havoc or destruction because 98% of the time they are flat on thier faces in the wet grass of emain.
Its a catch 22. We are put down fast to stop us from going nutz. But because we are put down fast we never accualy do go nutz. This means casters never get to do anything. And guess what? They roll tanks.
Add this to the nerfdome of earth and ice theugs and it completely surprizes me there are any lvl 45+ theugies still playing them.
Rokar Winterbourne lvl50 air Theurg
(Amoung others)
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scrybaby
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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i have been playing a theurgist for a very long time now. i split the time with my scout as well. oddly enough i have to say that i made the theurgist because i got tired of my scout constantly getting bt'd.
Alco - Spec: 45 earth, 29 ice.
so what do i have to say for myself? this will probably be a long read.../deep breath
i guess i should start by listing the things i love(and i do mean LOVE) about my therugist, which is still by far my most favorite class in the game.
1. i love 6sec pbt, especially in pve where it is borderline godly.
1.5 i love the attack speed reduction, combined with 6 sec pbt i can run away from tanks trying to kill me almost indefinately as their slow weapons bounce off my bt.
2. i love caster speed. it's not a godsend, but it's better then the regular crawl.
3. i love my ice pets. don't expect that to kill stuff for you, but they will put healers completely out of commision just long enough.
4. i love mcl2. if you don't have it, get it NOW. it's the only thing that will keep you IN a fight. i end up using it once every fight and it's usually just enough.
i find as an earth theurgist i do just enough to help the group to help us win. most people don't fully understand the effectiveness of an earth theurgist, but they are a good class. with serenety2 and mcl2 i'm usually in good supply with mana atleast enough to last me through one fight.
i'm not really bothered by the archer change, especially since there are so few archers in mid and hib. it's the wardens adn the rm's that should be pissed.
so far everything seems peachy keen. so what's the problem? get ready...
1. earth pets are virtually useless. they got longer range? woopty f'n do! if i send an earth pet at it's maximum range it will just barely get to my target and maybe swing once. all they do is eat up your mana and only actually semi effective when combined with ice pets. i use my ice pets far more frequently.
2. i can't stand the fact that i NEED serenity2 and mcl2 just to maintain any amount of power. if i didn't have serenity2 i would be constantly losing power while running 6sec pbt.
3. ice nukes take far to much power for their low dmg output. especially while running 6sec pbt. i need to have ice focus on my staff instead of earth, just so i'm not constantly and always hurting for power.
4. pbt is the only useful thing in the earth line. the ONLY useful thing, and with a back-up spec in ice the only useful thing i get are the pets, the nuke and the ae root are too innefective that that spec to be useful.
5. i'm infuriated that there are only two effective specs for a theurgist. earth/ice or air/earth. earth/ice means you simply sit around watching fights, and air/earth means you're a good nuker, but as far as utility you're more or less just pretending.
6. theurgist specs have by far the fewest "tools" per line. earth: pbt/pet/speed dec. ice: nuke/pet/root. air: nuke/pet/mez. and what really gets to me is that air and ice are redundent. you never see an air/ice theurgist. there is nothing offered by ice that air doesn't do better or just as well.
7. melee speed debuff is single prson and on a long timer. it'll take me forever to debuff everyone so i just don't bother with it unless i'm being threatened.
8. for a siege caster, i can't seem to really do much sieging. where's my gtaoe? why are my pets so inneffective against doors? siege bolt does not a siege caster make, it's an RA not a spec given ability.
what am i getting to?
well, for a utility caster(as opposed to the 1-button nuker) i see very little utility in my class. maybe not even in group combat, maybe just in sieging ability.
suggestions.
earth(don't need them all, but 1 or 2 would be nice)
- give earth spec a bolt like the earth wizards or give earth spec gtaoe which is basically only useful in sieging situations.
- give earth pets higher dmg output on keep doors, atleast i'll feel better about the most useless pet available.
- give earth spec a door af debuff
ice
- there's really nothing "wrong" with ice. the problem lays in the poor back-up specs. noone specs ice/air because of the redundency, and few go ice/earth because they're better off specing air/earth for the better DD's.
- possibly increase effectiveness of the ice pets, better snare, less resists, or maybe even root instead of snare.
air
- by far the most popular main spec for theurgist, it's only flaw is the lack of reasons to spec air/ice.
- also, there's a huge lack of reason to spec air as a back-up. it offers no real utility except for the mez, which is already short and is further shortened by the low spec. as far as pets, if you've got earth or ice pets why bother with the lower spec air pets?
- either increase the range of the mez or increase the area of the mez. i understand that an air theurgist mez should not be as good as the sorc mez, but at this point it's just a crappy version of it...might as well just use the ice aoe root,
- longer cast range for an air pet is borderline silly because of the short durration of the pet. it may get a chance to swing once and most likely MISS.
- how about an ice resist debuff?
i don't belive that all these changes are nessisary, but some would do well for the utility class which is suffering from a lack of utility. the only really unique and cool things about the theurgist are also the highly innefective and largly unplayable aspects of the class: the pbt and the pets which are so power consuming that it makes them almost undesirable.
well, disect me if you will. these are my opinions and i'm not ashamed to be proven wrong, but i urge you strongly to consider these things as a overview of the class and how it could stand to improve.
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{old}Jaavon
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Fido:
"They are working as intended. "
we are intended to be siege specialists. how are we working as intended? We are intended to be the utility caster yet have less utility than all other casters ... how is that working as intended?
I quoted as intended because that was the only statement i was responding to and didn't feel the need to clutter the rest of the post with things that were irrelevant to my post. I never said you said that you wanted theurgists nerf'd... 'nerf me' was meant as my way of saying 'I give a flying monkey about housing ... bump'.
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Blackhunter:
"3-4 second stun on each" Liez. Theurgist air pet has a 1 second stun.
"They also said in that patch that once you get over 1000 crafting you have a 1/6 chance for an mp, nice lie as well" No, they said that LGM crafters (renamed L) would have a 1/6 (~16%)chance to make 94-99% items and a 1/50 (2%) chance to make an MP item.
"you losers lose all credibility when you carry your crying over to the air line. " Explain to me why, Blackhunter, the air line should have the shortest range mezz in the game when that mezz is NOT instant-cast and is the shortest duration mezz in the game (at equal spec levels).
"if you can't kill a target who is perma interupted by zerg pets," sigh. Lets look at, say, a shadowblade. They have no access to determination or ignore pain. Lets say its a shadowzerker and in a group (for targetting purposes). You target said SZ @ 2000 range. Cast one pet - he stops, /waves at the big sign that is over your head that says 'fresh meat' - and to chain stun you will need to do this *roughly* 4 times. 4 pets seem to stun a target pretty well. At cap speed thats 6s worth of cast time. 6s is *plenty* of time for SZ to get in your face and whack you in the head. Once that happens ... you get to quick cast one nuke ... then stand there and die. Of course you could always QC a mezz ... however your stupid pet hitting for 20 damage will conveniently break that for you before you can get away. At this point, with the QC dd and the 4 pets you have used up ~33% of your power. When was the last time an enchanter took 33% of its power to kill a rogue-hp player without IP or determination?
beyond all that ... air is a decent spec. It just needs some minor help with the mezz (extending its range to 1500 or making it insta, making it a stun or increasing its duration would all be possible solutions) and fixed pets like all lines need. Granted the air pet is the most useful, but being the king of the mountain doesn't mean much when the mountain just dropped from a cows behind.
Ice and earth are just junk. Yes the instant attack speed debuff (earths only spell, really)--ALL CLASSES attack speed debuffs--no longer interrupts casters. yes enchanters melee damage debuff does interrupt.
-------------------------------------------
Liddle:
"Get in line right behind all the eldy's that *have* to spec mana in order to be of any use" Hmm ... taken from the camelot herald: Eldritch light spec line (Shadow Control) has nearsight, level 45 209 spec DD, 1500 range aoe mezz, dex/qui debuffs. Very similar to the theurgist wind spec-line 'cept theurgists get no nearsight and a pet instead of a debuff and a 1250 range mezz. Course the pets abilities are negated by the eldritches base-line stun which is infinitely cheaper (mana-wise) and more effective than air pets. And you are saying the eldritch mana line is better than the light line (which i agree with) ... that makes eldritches broken how? everyone seems to think and agree with the fact that wind is a viable spec line ... but it is not as good as eldritch light yet you are saying everything but mana is not worth specing. I'm confused. Seems like at least 2 viable spec lines to me.
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MoodiBlues
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lock this PoS thread.
perma stunning no-immunity un-cc'able pets is more than enough.Oh, on top of that..we give you speed, 10sec pbt, AE mez, nukes.
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scrybaby
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because Moodi
you can't do speed and 10 sec pbt at the same time
because the pets are such a power sink and one is NOT enough. (btw, air pets are low level and there is a good chance that you can resist the stun)
because if i'm an earth theurgist and i'm running speed - 90% of my effectiveness is GONE.
because air is the only good nuke line, and screw it if i wanted to be a primary nuker i'd have been a fire wizard.
because 10 sec pbt is even more useless now that archers can rip right through it.
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{old}Jaavon
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"perma stunning no-immunity un-cc'able pets is more than enough.Oh, on top of that..we give you speed, 10sec pbt, AE mez, nukes. "
sigh. the rest has already been touched on but ... one thing. The pets are NOT UN-CC'able. You can consider sever-the-tether a form of cc for the pets. Yes i know thats an RA but you see it used about as commonly as you see an army of junk coming from a theurgist at you or a group member. Also, the pets can still be stunned, just not mezz'd. Mid aoe stun will out-last the pets and enchanters have base-line stun. The caster also suffers from nearsight (RM and eldritch get the advantage on a theurgist becasue of it) and if used the theurgist will never get to cast a pet.
Again, the rest of the fallacies in your statement ... are just sick and I'm not going to bother with.
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Azhrarn_Alb
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Everyone's missing the point.
Earth and Ice speclines are the ones that are awful and need help.
Air is actually pretty decent.
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scrybaby
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a few more things.
pbt is not the end-all-be-all! it's NICE, it's not worth me putting all my spec points into it, not any more anyway. casters ignore pbt, and duel weild classes rip right through with their main hand attack, pbt also doesn't not keep you alive indefinately, 3 tanks on you and you're dead. again, there's really not enough utility in the earth line to warrant specializing in it.
and lastly...i don't thikn they're anything particuallrly horrible(bad yes, unplayable no) in the earth/ice or air/earth combinations, EXCEPT theurgist lack any resemblance of siege capability.
wizards, cabs and sorcs have more siege potential then ME! a wizard can gt or pb, a cab can DoT and send his pet on the door, a sorc can mez and send his lvl50 pet on the door.......what can i do? sit and run pbt or empty my full power bar worth of pets only to watch them die in 30 seconds and then have to wait 10 minutes for power again.
give me
gtaoe
pets that do more dmg to doors(JUST DOORS for god's sake)
door armor debuff.
maybe a spec siege bolt that takes 33% of power per cast(i could actually live with this kind of power dump).
and please do something about our power consumption(no other class can empty their power bar as quickly as we can, except maybe a thane, for so little return. possibly a necro, but that's only because of a bug that mythic refuses to fix)
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{old}Jaavon
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my point has nothing to do with what spec-lines are balanced anymore ... we've brought up 100 ideas, or more, for all spec-lines for the theurgist and RAs too. The TL has read them on the elementalist board and has ideas of his own. The key is no longer to post ideas, imo, since they will just be a rehash of the past, but rather to make someone read the ideas and do something with them.
my point is to keep this thread at the top of the dev boards
That said ... /bump.
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Xxtayce
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Scrybaby, Agree with you on just about everything but...
"ice
- there's really nothing "wrong" with ice. the problem lays in the poor back-up specs. noone specs ice/air because of the redundency, and few go ice/earth because they're better off specing air/earth for the better DD's. "
Ice is "broken" in thinking that a low level pet dd that gets interrupted by its horrid AI, or resisted because of the way resists are calculated, or many of the other things that will cause a pet not to cast (not reaching target, LOS, etc.), will make up for having a smaller nuke. BOTH base and specline ice nukes have less damage than the air nuke (ironic, since ice goes up to 50 and air stops at 45).
Also doesn't explain in the least why it costs more power to cast either base or spec nuke, no reason I could even think of for that one. I'm going Earth/Ice for less variance/power costs on base nukes, but it doesn't help me much if I have 6sec pbt draining my power, AND spells cost more to cast that just suck. Seems rather wrong to me.
But, we're on the same side, (Theurgists unite!), I just have a different viewpoint of "wrong". Also, annoys the crap out of me that spec ice nuke negates any root. Sucky. On a side note, I love the people who come here complaining about getting owned by an theurgist. With all the crap we have to put up with, it's humerous... there's actually people out there gimper than us!! Sadly, it's due to lack of skills and common sense, rather than design. /sigh
Jaavon: Awesome point to the elds who think they're worse off than us. I had to laugh.
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Crandell
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I'd like to thank some of the new posters for showing up, don't know if its because I spammed posted all the US boards Yes I know bad me and I was sent a nasty letter not to do it again but hey I really didn't know I couldn't do it. But anyway it looks like some great ideas and keep them coming and its so sad to see the same ol argurement come up about AIR spec theurgs and the GODLY always stunning air pets, how many times do we have to go over the same thing, just because some air pet stunned you for one second doesn't mean jack. Keep this thread alive and hopefully just maybe we shall see some love. Good job my fellow theurgs.
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Demonic_Apparition
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"Animists are worse off then you are ."
hmm possibly but have animists sucked since beta? noooo they are a new class, theurgists have put up with complete shit for years.
And for all those who are saying "get in line", well, im sorry to say it but we have been in line since day 1, and undeserving classes and spell lines keep butting in front.
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GoldManiac
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Air spec isn't even that good. Most casters who only have one viable line at least have a very good line. Air is average. I would (and do) take any wizard spec over an air spec theurgist.
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scrybaby
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you guys have convinced me. i'm respecing to air.
aside from the fact that even 6sec pbt is completely useless now. and ice dmg is pathetic. and the complete pointlessness of my class....why do i even bother playing it?
my earth theurgist has
1. no dmg output
2. no cc
3. no power
4. no ae spells
5. no self deffence
the only thing i do well is pbt, and since i spend most of my day insta mezzed by hib bards or insta stunned by mid healers...pbt isn't actaully ever on when i need it.
does mythic not see? it's not like they've ever /nerfed the theurgists. theurgist were gimp from the beginning, but since mythic has been slowly boosting other classes they have effectively lowered our notch too along with skalds(former RvR elite) and thanes. i can understand skalds being normalized. i can almost even understand thanes who are now only slightly bellow average. but why ignore a class that's been gimp since day one?
one last note. for those of you who say "but pets put me out of commision for a long time, they're so powerful". listen, it's right pets put your out of commision and are powerful. BUT, any pet class can send a pet on you with a single button click an no power expenditure, we theurgist on the other hand have to CAST the ugly kids(3s cast time is fairly slow compared to how quickly nukes are cast) and we have to cast a few of them as well as burn alot of power on it. there's no point to it, we can pretty much put 1-2 people out of commision before we're oop and are the target for every tank in the area. and tipically, when i start casting my pets on you - you're dead before they even get there or I'M dead before they even get there, so i end up dropping a lot of power for NOTHING. it's very frustrating.
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Keroth
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/bump
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{old}jakedomino
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/bump for theurgist love
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GoldManiac
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It's taking them so long just to fix housing, ruining my play time every day. I can't imagine all the different they would screw up a theurgist fix.
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{old}Jaavon
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www.bump.com
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Eager_Igraine
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Fun factor please, page 3 unacceptable.
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I know what you're trying to do but you're just sailing another failboat over the falls. - imaloon1
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Azhrarn_Alb
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"Air spec isn't even that good. Most casters who only have one viable line at least have a very good line. Air is average. I would (and do) take any wizard spec over an air spec theurgist. "
I like the runspeed that Air theurg gets more than I like bolts. It's a preference issue with Air.
Earth and Ice are pretty much worthless specs.
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Big_Twinky
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Well, at least we cant complain these days about theurgists because we cant get in game to play them
/bump
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{old}Procifica
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I agree, mythic can't even fix an optional patch, they sure won't ever get to Theurgists.
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Sarumz
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I have held on to my 41ice/35 earth spec hoping that I might happen to be able to play a viable toon, that I made the way I wanted....well, as I rVr more I'm getting more and more frustrated. I guess my last hope is to use my respec and be forced into a spec I never wanted. This toon has 37 played days...I made it the way I wanted. I didn't want to follow the masses, alas Ice is so horrible I was nuking last night for 150 with my baseline ice nuke on a tank with probably 2000hps. At +12 skill to ice. One sweet thing was I had ZERO variance...it just sucked period and didn't vary.
/bump so one day Jaavon might one day find his pants.....
Sarumz 50 Theurgist <DoA> Lancelot
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Demonic_Apparition
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/b
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scrybaby
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with my poor azz spec i ice nuke consistenly for 150(-200). it's fun!
it's a joke, right?
if all i get is a single weapon, why is it so poor? so so so poor. pbt is not worth this, sorry.
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GoldManiac
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Theurgists!!
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Vethvius
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Bump!
For the love of theurgies!
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{old}jakedomino
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Theurgs are broekn and need love now!
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Azhrarn_Alb
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Fix Ice Theurgist
Fix Earth Theurgist
Leave Air as it is.
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{old}Jaavon
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nerf me pls.
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GoldManiac
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Pointer hovers over the cancel button . . .
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_Arandal_
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Hey, all is not lost.
Air Mez now display's ZZZs over heads of those in radius.
Not that it helps earth or ice at all.
Or even air... but its DIFFERENT
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{old}fludane
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bump, fix earth and ice! wouldnt care if i have said this many times already
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Njorl
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Theurgists, don't lose heart! I've been playing a theurgist since release and I've been doing much better lately.
Of course, I've been playing my reaver and sorc, but I have been doing better!
Njorl
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{old}jakedomino
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I've been playing a theurgist since the beginning and I'm doing much better these days, too...but that's only because I have been playing my Hero instead.
Theurgists suck as a class. Earth and ice are broken, pets cost too much to cast and take too long to get there and vanish too quickly. Theurgist mez is shorter-ranged than every other ranged mez in the game.
Mythic, theurgists are the worst caster class in the game. Fix them NOW.
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oxedus
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the main issue has always been about making the other two spec lines (earth and ice) reasonable to spend higher points into so that you can play and have fun with what you spent.
i don't know why mythic is not concerned about this. count how many ice theurgist there are playing on your server? count how many earth theurgist really enjoy themselves a lot in rvr?
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GoldManiac
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Mythic needs to constantly be reminded we exist. If it weren't for Abaddon, we wouldn't see a single change to our class except for all the indirect nerfs.
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{old}NevermoreRaven
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Freyir yells, "RAWR! Fear the Theurgfriar!"
<All the Midgard and Hibernian invaders die laughing as an Earth Theurgist charges them and whacks them with his staff>
You know what's sad? I was actually dissapointed when they changed the melee proc on my staff to a usable charge effect. I got far more use out of the proc than I ever did the charges, because I melee'd in battle between buffs and waiting for MCL to return.
Yay for 6sec PBT, Friction, Weapon Buffs and Haste! I really love these spells...
Still... Where's my siege spells?
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daryen
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I have not read a single post in this thread
I have never played an alb class past level 10
I am a full time Mid since the beginning
I hate all alb casters
With all that being said..
HOW THE HELL CAN YOU HAVE A CLASS WITH SPEC LINES THIS BAD!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Its like earth and ice are the red heades step children of daoc! My beloved skald class dosent even seem to be as sad as ice and earth are. (cough air is overpowered though cough)
I have no solution to what needs to be added, only that as an outsider to your realm even I can see this is `a good bump!! I think the PETS need to be raised in effectiveness in earth and ice. Earth pets proc random disease and dot and ice proc pbaoe ice damage would be sweet!
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Rygga
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Crandell said:
" Hey you know what I invite all to come here and post, its a free country and all opinions are welcome, thats why this is a OPEN BOARD, wow such an amazing concept. The fact is I want people to come here and express their thoughts about Theurgists just so we can see what others think about theurgs, if the best thing you can say is
"THEURGISTS ARE FINE" but yet you have no proof then my friend you are a moron and shouldn't even bother posting. But if you can come to this board and say "
Spamming a message to multiple boards is AGAINST THE TOS, you moron. You shouldn't even bother posting. So stay off our board if you don't want people to come mess with your precious thread.
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Crandell
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Yup I did say that, and yes I did spam all the boards, to my mistake I didn't realize that was against TOS, and I was warned and would never do it again, That being said its true, I do want people to come here and try, key would TRY, to debate this fact that theurgs don't need love, and all you have done so far is blah blah blah blah, show some proof of why we are so overpowering or keep posting and bumping the thread, but at least don't be a moron like you have already show us.
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Crandell
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bump
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Sarumz
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Rygga quit your bitching about Crandell. He screwed up and addmitted to it. Don't post on this thread if you don't have anything to say of any worth either for or against theurgys, please....that being said, thanks Daryen for your support. It's peeps like you that help add a little legitimacy to our issues. It's actually funny to note...of all the big threads on the dev board nearly the entire realm of midgard is crying for love while from Alb the ONLY class asking for help are the Theurgists. There is a murmer from armsmen but Theurgists Ice and Earth specs are the most broken and worthless in the realm and game. And when you have folks from other realms who don't even have theurgists in agreement it's about time Mythic looks our way...<crosses fingers>
Sarumz 50 Theurgist <DoA> Lancelot
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{old}NevermoreRaven
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Once there roamed a powerful Wizard upon in the realm who's might was unmatched. The mighty wizard terrorized and destroyed all his enemies.
The Demon Mythic saw this and did smite the wizard saying, "Let thy uberness fade and thy power dwindle and a new force arise from thine shadow. Arise Theurgist and take your place in the realm!"
And Theurgist did arise and it was good.
The realm grew older and the Demon Mythic soon felt pity upon the poor Wizard which it had delivered the gift of gimp upon and offered it new magics with which to fight its enemies and the Wizard did rejoice.
And the Theurgist did watch from afar and it was good.
The march of time did pass and the Demon Mythic did pity a young Sorcerer and granted him new powers and the Sorcerer rejoiced and gave thanks.
And the Theurgist did view this from a distance and it was good.
A poor archer gained the Demon Mythic's pity and was bestowed with some new abilities to pass through magics and slay the Theurgist.
And the Theurgist did sense the change and it was good.
The Demon Mythic did whisper into the Theurgist's ear and tell him he was too powerful for his own good. Thus the Theurgist's powers of weapon enchantment did fade and his powers of slowing and distracting the other magic users did vanish.
And the Theurgist did bend over and take it up the *coughs* and it was good.
Where upon the world did continue to change and grow old. The Demon Mythic did build homes for the people to live in and gather together with their families while the forces of good and evil was precariously balanced in the realm.
And the Theurgist was ignored and it was good.
The Theurgist did praise the Demon Mythic for its accomplishments and the Demon Mythic did laugh and bellow from the sky, "This was mere childs play. My greatest accomplishment shall be seen soon enough."
And the Theurgist was dismissed and it was good.
Many more years passed and the Demon Mythic did revel in its glory and power while the Theurgist did wander aimlessly about the realm growing weaker and weaker by the day.
And the Theurgist did fade from the heart and minds of the realm and it was good.
One eve the Wizard did ask the Demon Mythic what had happened to his counterpart, but the Demon told the Wizard not to worry and that all was well.
And the Wizard did not worry and it was good.
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Uncreations
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I think Mythic should give earth Theurgists some kind of PBAOE spell. Chanters have speed, good pbaoe, and a DD with debuff. I think pbaoe would fix he earth spec and make it more appealing.
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Demonic_Apparition
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ahha! Raven a fine post indeed! Though you forgot to tell us the second story of the Demon Mythic and the woefull Theurgist. When the Theurgist thought he and his brothers had walked through too much misjustice, they sought to contest the power of the Demon Mythic. They devised a post with over 700 replies, tried to thrust it into the Demon Mythic's heart and destroy it, but to their dismay, in all it's glory and power the Demon cast them into the depths of nerfdom with one powerfull blow, and the heavens did rain fire that day. The theurgists were cast into the lake of burning gimps, and bondaged with chains of uselessness. There, the Theurgist vowed to repay the Demon for his acts, promising to cancel his account. I think thats the rest of it...
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Crandell
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bump
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Demonic_Apparition
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FINALLY! WE GET DA LOVING!! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
-----------------------------------------
Here are the notes for Dark Age of Camelot version 1.63. As you can see, there are a lot of notes to read through that touch almost all aspects of Theurgists: earth, pet balance, ice, wind, etc. As always, 1.63 is not the end of bug fixes and tweaks - we'll keep working on outstanding issues for 1.63 and beyond.
=====================================
Dark Age of Camelot
Version 1.63 Release Notes
=====================================
After a long development and testing cycle, here is Dark Age of Camelot version 1.63. It started out development as a "Housing tweak and fix patch", but quickly mushroomed into a general class balance and bug fixing patch. We've substantially updated/tweaked/adjusted Theurgist's pet preformance, mana consumption, and made many more additions to their spell lines.
We know that there are more items to tweak and fix in the game, but we strongly feel that with 1.63, we've come a lot closer to bringing more balance to the game, as well as helping a very hurting class. As always, there are more things to do, and we'll keep working on any outstanding bug fixes and balance issues with Theurgists as we do future patches.
A big Thank You must go out to the Theurgist Team Lead who have been so helpful in providing feedback and testing for 1.63 as it has gone through the testing process. You should be proud of yourself.
Here's a list of just the major items we've addressed about Theurgists in 1.63:
- Many many tweaks and fixes to the earch line. Yes, we know there are more to make in the future, but the list of items done for the earth specialization in 1.63 is extensive.
- Addressed PBT (pusling blade turn) Balance via reduced mana cost. Now, if you have PBT, you will consume 50% less mana per tick while running it. characters with higher spec in earth will see up to a 75% reduction, and RR5 characters up to 80%. We'll see how this affects Theurgist mana consumption and make more changes as appropriate.
- Addressed Theurgist summon's mana cost. We are reducing the base mana it takes to summon then from 12% to 25 power. This should make Theurgists use them more often in battle without extensive mana loss. We realized that the pets were just less effective versions of DoT's.
- With the popular demand that the earth line have a more offensive touch to it, we have added a new spec line ground targeted area effect spell, similar to that of a wizards. Though this version will cover more radius, but less damage. This should help fill the Theurgist's class description as a siege warfare caster.
- Our data banks show that there is not one Theurgist who has over 45 spec in ice. This has caused us some concern, so we have decided to add an ice debuff effect to the spec line ice nukes, in addition to the already existing snare. Also, specializing in ice will now show a higher return in damage, putting it in line with spec line nukes in other realms.
- The wind specialization line for Theurgists is a somewhat complete spell line, but we have made a small tweak. The range for the area effect mez will now be 1500, instead of the previous 1250. We looked back and realized the range of 1250 was a mistake, just a typo. It should now be possible to cast this without the danger of being picked out by missle attacks.
didnt put the rest but thats all it had for Theurgists, isn't that awesome!
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Crandell
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That was mean
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Rygga
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actually, I think the theurgist needs lots of improvement. I only said that in response to your board spamming. If they'd offer a real viable 3rd spec line, I'd likely start a theurg, since my two favorite characters so far are a wizard and sorcerer. Albion casters are my favorite.
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AquaBlaze
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Well, just got off another board, and Mythic finally did it...
They /nerfed Attack Speed Debuff again.
It now no longer interrupts, leaving it to its bugged glory. So...what's left for there for Earth/Ice Theurgists to do?
1. PBT? Nope...been killed with PA, Rapid Shot, Volley, etc.
2. Pet? A joke. They are worthless.
3. DD? Please...
4. Debuff? Now changed to only make melee 'toons hit you harder.
5. Die? Hmm...pretty good at that.
"If they'd offer a real viable 3rd spec line"
Um...when did we even have a viable 2nd spec line? Theurgists have Air, and that's it. Both Earth & Ice spec lines are useless.
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{old}NevermoreRaven
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I wish I got a 10 second warning before somebody hit me with a Bolt or DoT. All I get to see is a large blob of energy smack me between the eyes so hard that my ancestors roll over in their graves.
<Notices Midgard runes circling or Hibernian leaves falling from the sky>
"Oh no somebody's about to cast a bolt on me, I better run."
Or maybe it would be nice to warn the group healers in advance.
"Get ready to rez me, Cleric! I'm about to get blasted to the Netherealm!"
You have been hit for 999999(-1) damage.
You have died fighting for your realm. Type /release and save your healer the trouble.
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Sarumz
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OMG Demonic that was soooo mean lol. I spilled my soup, started sweating and flying thru everything on the Herald for more info...haha but thats one hell of a laundy list for us. I think it's a great place for Mythic to start, hopefully Abaddon is not letting them rest until they look at Theurgys. Happy Friday all....
Sarumz 50 Theurgist <DoA> Lancelot
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Big_Twinky
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Here is what was stated in the Patch notes for 1.62 as to why they were tweaking archers:
“ARCHER NOTES
It's time to give Archer classes a bump in ability, as they have been somewhat left behind by the addition of many new abilities and spells in other classes. In this version, we attempt to bring the Archer back in line to be a fun to play class. However, it is not our intention to ever return the Archer to the sniping overpowered force that he was at Camelot's launch. These changes should make the Archer useful and fun, but not make him overpowered.â€
So Archers have been left behind by the changes in other classes. Theurgists have ALWAYS been behind… Archers used to be gods, were toned down, and now are demi gods. Theurgists have never gotten anything to compensate for the changes done to other classes. The changes done to other classes have theurgists even more gimpy so please fix them.
Oh, /bump
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{old}darkdims
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Theurgists may need love, but please remove chain stunning pets first. They are WAY overpowered. I can life with a stun with an immunity timer, but chain stun is plain wrong. Give an 1 minute immunity timer to the destinations or remove the stun ability at all. Then give Theurgists some reasonable love.
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_Arandal_
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Thanks for the bump.
Not sure how you can say its overpowered, since air elementals cost 12% (about 9% with 50 focus staff) of the theurgists power, live only 20 seconds, hit for almost nothing, can be stunned, killed by confusion, StT'd, outrun, or easily killed, and only randomly (low chance) attempt the stun proc, which (if not resisted, since its a low level spell) only stuns for 1 second...
Anyway, the primary thrust of this thread is the earth and ice lines.
Think about it... just making earth more appealing means fewer air theurgists, ergo fewer air elementals
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Demonic_Apparition
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i kno it was mean but funny, cause we will never see something that good! wait.. erhm, thats not funny, that sucks.
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Azhrarn_Alb
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"Theurgists may need love, but please remove chain stunning pets first. They are WAY overpowered. I can life with a stun with an immunity timer, but chain stun is plain wrong. Give an 1 minute immunity timer to the destinations or remove the stun ability at all. Then give Theurgists some reasonable love"
I couldn't agree more. Air pets need a 9 sec base stun with a 1 min immunity timer, just like many of the other stuns currently in the game.
Dismissing the chainstun issue would be a very helpful clarification.
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{old}Jaavon
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O M F G
I agree with daryen on something.
"Theurgists may need love, but please remove chain stunning pets first. They are WAY overpowered. I can life with a stun with an immunity timer, but chain stun is plain wrong. Give an 1 minute immunity timer to the destinations or remove the stun ability at all. Then give Theurgists some reasonable love. "
Yeah, take the stun proc away from wind pets and make it a baseline wind spell instead. Wind pets do *not* chain stun. If you are chain Stunned by wind pets the theurgist used *at least* 4 pets. Thats 6s casting time IF the theurgist is casting at cap speed. He is also doing *0* damage in that 6s and has burned 40% of his power if he has 10s bubble on. While he has effectively made you useless (Assuming you don't have determination) for 20s he has also just taken himself out of the fight and labled himself as a squishy caster on the battlefield. Its not like a hib baseline stun which is harder to see the caster of and removes you from the playing field but allows the caster to nuke with ease.
I'm also fairly certain the stun is affected by resists. 50% resists on (guessing) body means its a .5s stun. fear.
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{old}NevermoreRaven
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This just off of the official Mythic Website (http://www.mythicentertainment.com/)
June 27, 2003
Dark Age of Camelot: Utopia
Mythic Entertainment today announced a new upcomming expansion, Dark Age of Camelot: Utopia. This expansion contains all the broken promises that have been made to the player base but never implemented. Also, the expansion introduces several new races and classes as well as perfectly balances every class in the game, except for the soon to be extinct Theurgist class that will soon be phased out of the game.
MORE >>
Edit: New expansion information
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Crandell
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Good ol bump
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{old}Killplenty
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Chain stunning by theurgist pets was removed by Mythic in the 1.52 patch. People claiming that it has happened to them since them are lying.
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Crandell
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bump
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daryen
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I coulda sword I was just chain stuned by air pets today... but if you say ...
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-Logic-
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Can you tell the Theurgist Air Pets on Merlin to stop chain stunning me then since they're no longer allowed to? They can't seem to break the habit.
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{old}LandaPanda
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Hey I got your theurgist fix right here guys
Fix:
-Reduce damage on air pets to about 10-20 dmg on last pet.Disable the ability to chain stun and only have a pet stun a atrget for 9s every 1 minute according to the new immunity timer(This wil allow theurgists to appreciate what there earth pets can hit for)
-Increase pet run speed
-Decrease cost on power for each pet in all 3 specs
If you cant deal with this,then plz quit,we dont need anymore powergaming albs
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{old}Jaavon
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"-Reduce damage on air pets to about 10-20 dmg"
thats what they already hit for.
daryen ... i'll duel you on pendragon sometime (i'll respec full air) and you'll see that they *don't* chainstun.
if you call 'chainstun'ing when 6 pets are on you and stunning ... think of it this way. those stuns last at most 10s (then all the pets are dead). Same as a healer base-line stun (unless i'm mistaken) cept healer cost is what... 30 power? 6 pets is ~48% power. Powerpool of roughly 400 on a caster ... that means our 'chainstunning' pets just cost us 200 power. Trade you that for your 30 power baseline stun anyday.
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{old}LandaPanda
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""-Reduce damage on air pets to about 10-20 dmg"
thats what they already hit for."
Ya ok,the other day in emain we ran into a group with 2 air theurs,would ya believe that?2?!?!There pets hit me for 68-89 dmg minues dmg add which is about 13-23.The last time I got hit with earth pets was for about 88-106 dmg plus a 23-34 dmg add.
Im in full mp/sc gear and have tg skald vest.
Im capped out and am 5|2
Logs plz
Daryen go duel him and bring back teh logs >_<
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{old}darkdims
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"Yeah, take the stun proc away from wind pets and make it a baseline wind spell instead. Wind pets do *not* chain stun. If you are chain Stunned by wind pets the theurgist used *at least* 4 pets. Thats 6s casting time IF the theurgist is casting at cap speed. He is also doing *0* damage in that 6s and has burned 40% of his power if he has 10s bubble on. While he has effectively made you useless (Assuming you don't have determination) for 20s he has also just taken himself out of the fight and labled himself as a squishy caster on the battlefield. Its not like a hib baseline stun which is harder to see the caster of and removes you from the playing field but allows the caster to nuke with ease"
It was an 8vs8 fight that lasted about 2 mins. 1 minute of this fight I was just standing around and could not do anything. I was stunned, after the stun tried to move to the Theurgist, was stunned again, this went for 1 minute until he was oom.
You cannot compare it to the hib baseline stun, I can purge it and get immunity afterwards.
Yes, The Theurgist took me out of action and did no reasonable damage, so combined we took us both out of action. I would have no problem if he would have a baseline stun ability and then send pets on me that do damage. But standing around even after purge just sucks.
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AquaBlaze
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"Theurgists may need love, but please remove chain stunning pets first."
I guess a secondary damage-dealing class that actually does damage is too powerful? Honestly, if a Wind Theurgist blows his whole power bar on you, you better damn well die. Air Pets are about as overpowered as Earth Theurgist Frictions...which were nerfed...guess that tells me something. ^_^
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Xxtayce
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Darkdims, the theurgist pet stun only lasts one second. Also, if you take lag into consideration, (if you were "chainstunned", I'm betting you got just a teeny bit of lag from 4+ elementals on you... and how you didn't see them coming is beyond me.). If you lag, it may *seem* like chainstun, but in reality, it isn't. On top of that, the stun proc on the pets is not every hit. It's a proc that goes off randomly, visualized by the red swirly things around you.
"I was stunned, after the stun tried to move to the Theurgist, was stunned again..."
Therein lies your problem. You may want to move *away* from the theurgist to outrun pets, rather than *to* the theurgist until he/she gives up. Let someone else smush them into oblivion in the meantime. Air pets only last 20 seconds, if your fight lasted ~2 minutes, either the theurgist kept casting pets till oop (which wouldn't be many more, about 2-3), or killed you with nukes. I promise, you'd hate us a lot more if we had castable stun in a spec air theurgists commonly go to 45 in.
LandaPanda,
I will translate this into your language for you, since you appear inable to phrase any form of full, competant sentences:
STFU QQ MORE N00B!
To translate your post into English, you said:
"[Air pets hit me for] 68-89 [damage]. [Earth pets hit me for] 88-106 [damage a long time ago, so I probably don't even have the numbers right. I am assuming they cast damage add on their pets, since they have it. In reality, however, in order for a theurgist to be chain casting pets and damage add, I know that they would have to target me, cast a pet, cast damage add before the pet runs out of range (DA range is short), target me again, cast pet, target new pet, cast new DA, and repeat until they've casted two pets and died with most of their power because I ran over and killed them. I also know that, if stunned on the first hit of the first air pet, I will have less pets on me, doing less damage and stuns. I don't know why I'm whining. I guess I just suck and need to take it out on an already crappy class. Show me logs, so that I can make up more bulls*it and cry even louder!]"
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Azhrarn_Alb
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Yeah. That's the most noobish comment I've ever heard as well.
Nobody casts damage add on their pets. It would take far too long for too little reward.
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Crandell
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Man Again with the chain stunning air pets, thats the only thing you people can say? Come on show me logs, show me some sort of proof PLEASE! don't come here whinning about our air pets, I mean you actually come here to whine about one spell in one spec line and say that we are fine?
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Demonic_Apparition
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bump
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GoldManiac
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Our pets could cost 25% power, stun for .5 seconds, and require 3 theurgists to get any real duration of stun in, and they would still be here complaining about it. Just need to ignore them and post our points.
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Big_Twinky
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bump
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{old}Jaavon
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uh-huh.
and how many times did those pets actually *hit* you? twice? one for each theurgist spamming full powerbars worth of pets?
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Uncreations
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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I think Demon had a great idea.. in his "1.63 Patch" I think those would be good improvements to earth and ice spec. Earth theurgists getting gtaoe and maybe ice getting a better dd or even a pbaoe spell. My earth Theurgist is so boring to play .... just sit there and run PBT ... the character really isn't good for anything else.
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AquaBlaze
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"My earth Theurgist is so boring to play .... just sit there and run PBT ... the character really isn't good for anything else."
That was my Earth Theurgist's job prior to 1.62. Now with the PBT nerf, my main job is to be the RP cow/pincushion for the next melee/archer/caster in the field.
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Uncreations
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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With 675 posts over this topic .. maybe mythic will finally get the point .... /bump
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Crandell
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BUMP!
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Kabold
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Ya the insta win button Threurg's get from chain casting chain stunning air pets that are immune to CC isn't enuff.
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Uncreations
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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This is about Earth and Ice spec Theurgist. Wind (the air pet spec) is just fine except perhaps the short range aoe mez.
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Under_World
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Hey I got killed by a Earth Theurgist once... until I learned to outrun the pets.
Oh yeah, nerf PBT.
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Kabold
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"This is about Earth and Ice spec Theurgist. Wind (the air pet spec) is just fine except perhaps the short range aoe mez."
So 1 line having an insta win button isn't enuff all 3 lines should have it as well.
The other 2 lines will never recieve any kind of attention as long as you can chain cast 4 air pets and collect your RP's every fight. If the pets tripped your immunity timmer then I'd see why Thruegs needed help.
The fix is simple don't spec into a gimp line or give up the IWIN pets in the air line.
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Crandell
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again with the air pets, please read all of the following post regarding the so called chain stunning air pets, THEY DON'T DO IT. so stop lying about one stupid pet and see if anyone of you can come up with a valid, KEY WORD THERE, VALID post about why shouldn't get love.
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{old}Jaavon
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"Ya the insta win button Threurg's get from chain casting chain stunning air pets that are immune to CC isn't enuff"
um ... in the time 1 pet gets to your RM you could double bolt and dd the caster and interrupt all his casts and kill him and STILL use less power than it takes to cast 2 pets.
next... they are NOT IMMUNE TO CC. www.aoeStun.com. it works. try it.
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Uncreations
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Kabold... your are missing the point. We are trying to get mythic to make the other two specs more appealing. I could care less that you were wtfpwned by a wind theurgist. And no .. one spec does not make up for them all. I do agree they should make some kind of timer on the stun effect of wind pets. Maybe like they can only stun once every 10 secs. I would be happy if they would just give earth spec gtaoe and/or a good spec DD, and give ice spec some sort of pbaoe. This thread is mostly about how gimped the earth and Ice spec are.
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GiantAshSnake
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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I cant think of one RvR situation where I wouldnt rather be playing my sorc than my ice/earth thurg.
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Demonic_Apparition
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insta win huh Kabold. Ok lets put this to work.
I run up to you.
I start casting my pets.
4 pets come out over a period of time you could have bolted me twice. But thats ok, you sit there and do nothing.
You look at the pets as they run at you.
You wonder "what are those, im too much a newb to know that I should run!"
They get to you.
"huh, they hurt me? what? maybe I should run. hmm.. but let me think about this."
"oh, it stunned me? THATS NOT FAIR WTF /NERF!"
ok i guess I did win. But dont say a wind theurgist has insta win, because a RM has insta win as well. How do I know this? I own, and play, a 50 RM on percival. I can find far more utility with my bolts then with pets. And I can kill 3-4x as fast with some bolts and nukes, and they cant run from them (also doesnt take all my mana like pets do). If your going to complain about IWIN buttons, lets talk about enchanters who can kill most classes in the game almost instantly with low mana consumption. Stun, debuff, pet and enchanter nuke nuke nuke im dead. Still faster then the time it took for my pets to get to him, he can run. If your right and they have an IWIN button, then i guess mellees have an IWIN button too if you stick around and let them hit you, and sheild slam you.
Your a very smart person Kabold. Maybe ur still mad they nerfed your friendly zerkers, but dont bring it here.
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Hyperion191
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Mythic, could we have an official statement on the theurgist please ?
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{old}bmw745li
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DONT forget that bolts have SHORTER range then theurgists pets so its really easy to not get bolted when you can send 1 pet run back wait till the pet stuns the rm and kill him so whats your point?
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_Arandal_
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except that runie NEARSIGHT is 2300 range, outdistancing a 2000 range pet by 15%.
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GoldManiac
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Just ignore the morons with no listening skills.
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Xxtayce
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Runemasters get confusion (which kills pets), nearsight (which is WAY over the range of theurgist pets), and bolts (which damage, interrupt, and are over the range of anything a theurgist has aside from pets).
Let's compare the range of all this, to see what you COULD be doing to stop this so-called "I win". (We'll discuss the fact that you're an utter idiot later, when we explain what an "I win button" really is.)
Nearsight - Runemaster - 2300 range - 20 power MAX
Pet - Theurgist 2000 range - 12% power EACH
Bolt - Runemaster - 1875 range - 30 power MAX
Confusion - Runemaster - 1500 range - 23 power MAX
If a theurgist casts a pet at you, you could run in and nearsight the theurgist. They would then, at the highest level of nearsight, have to get 65% closer to you to cast another pet.
If a theurgist casts a pet at you, you could cast confusion on the pet, it dies, and go with the whole bolt/nuke/dead route.
But instead, you let these kill you, and call our pets "I win" buttons. Do you even know what an "I win" button is?
It is a single button that, when pushed, guarantees (or gives a 90ish% chance) of a win. One pet will NOT mean that the theurgist can win, especially since you do have methods to counteract the pets... you just, for some reason, choose not to. And for all the people claiming our pets still chain stun, SHOW ME LOGS. That's right, proof. Something other than an "I wasn't paying attention, didn't know what to do, and died to the gimpest class in the game. To make myself feel better, I'm gonna cry!"
Lastly, this thread is about EARTH and ICE. Show me classes in your realms with as little options as the theurgist. Most are the "dreaded air spec" because they realized that the other two specs, which most people would have loved to spec in, SUCK. If you want to see less Air theurgists, support the fixing of Ice and Earth lines! I promise, if the fix is good, you'll see a lot less of "Mid's Most Hated Enemy". (As a side note, if more of your frickin' healers specced Aug, you'd have the spirit resist that Mythic gave you to prevent the so-called chainstun.)
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Skaldic
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Yes Mythic, please make Earth Theurgs an uber line so as well as Ablatative Chant, AF Spec Buff, AF Chant and BoF, Albs can have PBT in every group and become literally unmeleeable. Well, even MORE unmeleeable. Gotta love perfing those Pallys for 130.
That would be just great for game balance...
If Albs get a viable PBT line, every one of those above abilities needs to go to Midgard as well.
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Xxtayce
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Is this Mid Retard Day, or what?
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zepfan2
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What about when you cast those earth pets, and the earth buff lights up the target, that it actually roots his ass!
That gives those lumbering earth pets time to take a few swings at the target before he turns and runs.
Maybe after draining a whole power bar on earth pets, who have a subject rooted, they can kill a keen caster if they all get a hit on him before the root wears off!
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Ismaelec
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Single target stun and AE stun for Earth Theurgists and single target stun for Earth Wizards.
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Demonic_Apparition
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/bump
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{old}Jaavon
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"Yes Mythic, please make Earth Theurgs an uber line so as well as Ablatative Chant, AF Spec Buff, AF Chant and BoF, Albs can have PBT in every group and become literally unmeleeable. Well, even MORE unmeleeable. Gotta love perfing those Pallys for 130."
give us aoe stun, aoe insta stun, aoe insta mezz, and insta mezz, please. Give us endurance buff that doesn't use power to run. Allow us to spec 2h weapons wihtout using 2x spec points. Give us a class with 100 str. Give us a nuker that can debuff his own damage type for a 179 delve dd. Give us perfect recovery. Allow those pallys to hit you back for more than 60 damage.
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AquaBlaze
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"Oh yeah, nerf PBT."
Too late...Mythic did. Hell, they nerfed attack speed debuff...guess our dirt was too uBaH!
"Ya the insta win button Threurg's get from chain casting chain stunning air pets that are immune to CC isn't enuff."
Ya, a secondary damage dealing class that blows its whole power bar to kill someone...shouldn't be able to do so. God damn moronic FOTM player, shut up, and go back to your n00b powerlevel sessions, will you? Big people are talking here kiddy.
Plus, I bet that nice Air Pet "I WIN" button looks really nice on my Earth/Ice Theurgist. Riiiiight.
"DONT forget that bolts have SHORTER range then theurgists pets so its really easy to not get bolted when you can send 1 pet run back wait till the pet stuns the rm and kill him so whats your point?"
The fact that you can WALK to bridge the bolt gap, cast your bolt, and nuke the Theurgist to kingdom come before he can do anything...THAT would be our point numb-nut. Not to meantion nearsight, which again effectively neuters the Theurgist more than they were before.
"Is this Mid Retard Day, or what?"
I think it's Mid Retard Month, actually...since when have Midguards needed any special reservation of time to be stupid?
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oxedus
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bumps bumps bumps
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Demonic_Apparition
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I like the way mids are always complaining about something... specially since I play my 50shaman/runie/savage more then I play my albion characters, I get first hand witness to it. A good group of midgards is a VERY powerfull thing, theres just not enough smart people playing mid. A smart pac healer can pretty much win it for you 95% of the time. Ok ok, yeah the Berserker nerf was a bit much, there is room for complaint there but they DID need toning down. It is a well known fact umong the mids that their (our) berserkers were VERY overpowered. But now they got hit too hard I think, but its no reason to come here and get pissed at theurgists. And the only reason albions are ever a trouble (on my albion server and my mid server) is cause they are mostly the zerg, not because they have overpowered classes. Its getting too annoying with all the mids coming here and puttin their own 2cents about chain stunning pets. Funny that most mid classes can kill other players way more efficiently and way faster then the pets do, and they can usually kill faster then it takes for the pets to reach their targets, let alone if the person who the pets are attacking runs. Guess those trolls got too much skin and bone in their heads for any brain power, and we all know dwarfs are hard headed, kobies are too small to have large craniums, and norsemen are too drunk to know whats going on. Valkyn, well look at em, they are retarded.
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MoodiBlues
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AE Stun is next to worthless, seriously, if you actually played one you would know AE Mez >> Ae Stun most of the time, unless your group consists of total retards who never heard of /assist before.
Ofcourse bolt range mez is real nice, nobody complains about that.
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{old}Trisana_Chandeler
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/orders a pizza while waiting for theurgist love.
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{old}darkdims
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"give us aoe stun, aoe insta stun, aoe insta mezz, and insta mezz, please."
There are almost no Pac healers anymore. My guild (on best days 1 million RP / group) has not one left, 9 healers total in the guild. The inst spells are very short (after resists and/or determination) and the healer has to give up good heals for this. Also Albs can get immunity to CC with SOS (yes IT IS immnunity if used right) and Hibs with Group Purge and BAOD.
Bolt Range very long mezz >>> short inst mezz.
Besides this albs have already very short insta pbae mezz. (I'm still standing 10 seconds which is a long time in a fight), inst single stun and off evade long stun.
"Give us endurance buff that doesn't use power to run."
This buff kills abolutely our buffing capabilities, our main buffer has to give up 40% of his buffing capacity. Our power regen is also conc based so a good Mid group without a buffbot is MUCH worse buffed than a good Alb/Hib group. Additionally Albs have the buff on a class with very strong defence, Mids on one with no defence.
"Allow us to spec 2h weapons wihtout using 2x spec points."
We have no 2 handed styles, Alb/Hib 2 Handed damage >> Mid damage.
"Give us a class with 100 str."
You have a class with 70 str, fully buffed there is almost no difference. Also keep in mind that the 100 str class has very low dex.
"Give us a nuker that can debuff his own damage type for a 179 delve dd."
The value is 175 with a very long cast time (3 sek). In order to get it the runemaster has to give up 10 sek PBT!! Not one gank group will take a runemaster without PBT.
"Give us perfect recovery."
This spell plain sucks compared to Alb/Hib Ras. In most 8 vs 8 encounters 8 die in one group, 0 in another. So you have to start loosing in order to use it. You have a tank with 2300 hp and full resis and get one with 1600, normal resis and no endu buff. great. Make this an AE spell and you can compare it to BOF.
"Allow those pallys to hit you back for more than 60 damage"
Paladin is a very powerful class, one of the most powerful in the game, if Paladins would do good damage there would be no point in playing any other class.
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As you see Midgard abilities are total crap compared to I win buttons like BOF, SOS, VP, FH, SB, Ablative Chant, Bolt Range very long mezz, Chain stunning pets.
Midgard needs serious RA love to be brought on par with Hibernia and Albion.
The biggest problem of Albion is too many classes. An usual Albion group is totally gimped because of this. But an Alb gang group has far superior abilities compared to a Mid gank group, if both play very well Mids loose.
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I'm fully aware 2 spec lines of Theurgists need serious love (and one a nerf), there are almost no playing Theurgists on my server. The problem is - bring PBT to Albion would give it total melee imunity (combined with BOF and Ablative Chant). Be aware that the Midgard PBT class (suppression Runi) has also crap damage so it is also very rarely played.
I think a fix to BOF (reduction from +50% absorb to 20%) could give a compensation (and be still more powerfull that any Mid RA!!) so earth Theurgists could get some love then.
edits: spelling
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Demonic_Apparition
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I do agree mids are in need of some more snabby RA's, but just cause your gank group doesnt have a pac healer doesnt mean they dont exist. Percival there are plenty of pac healers, and alot of people still think they are fun to play unlike earth/ice theurgists. And wind does not need a nerf, in no shape or form. The pets do not chain stun nearly to the extent that people claim them to, we have logs gathered by the TL himself proving this, they are all over the Theurgist TL board. If you say otherwise, then post your own logs that show how they are overpowering people with chain stuns.
And on a side note supp runie is far more usefull, fun, and a better killer then an earth theurgist is. You really can't compare the two, I know plenty of good supp runies, and I would not mind respecing my Runemaster to supp as much as I would mind even PLAYING my earth theurgist. Maybe its preference but why don't you try them both and then make your decision.
There are strategies to get around the albion uber RA's, but I guess it really isnt fair if it takes sooper skills to beat them at a game they can play fairly easily. Still no reason for theurgists to suffer on acount of the other classes, I mean we pay our monthly fee too, and we have never gotten anything new, and have been dealt with mostly nerfs. And its really not fair to see enchanters get loving when everyone complained about them being overpowered, now even more then ever, and then us theurgists get a slap in the face with pbt nerfs. Maybe if more people played earth theurgists you would see less of these mystical "chain stunning" pets, ever see it that way?
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{old}Mavl1
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/bump
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Crandell
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bump
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{old}Jaavon
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darkdims my point wasn't to say that midgard is better, but that the realms are different. each has its benefits ....
i'm sick of reading whines about 'albion has this and it makes them so much more uber and they are undefeatable' Midgard has plenty of tools that people neglect to mention when they whine about albions uberness. While i feel that midgards unique RAs need some help, half the reason albion has a lot better RA's atm, (i'm sure) is because that on a base skill-skill comparison albion loses to other realms.
I am thoroughly enjoying midgard atm. I don't understand why others don't 
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AquaBlaze
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"I'm fully aware 2 spec lines of Theurgists need serious love (and one a nerf)"
Sorry...but all Theurgist lines are lacking something, some much, much more than others. (Earth & Ice lines) Seriously, do your research, and stop with this bandwagon idea that Wind seriously has some kind of cheat/exploit advantage to it.
Honestly, Theurgists need another nerf as much as Enchanters need more powerful DDs.
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Keroth
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Wonder when ppl will finally stop calling air pets an "insta win button".
Can anyone explain me how casting 5-6 pets (so you get a good chance enemy is stunned) is a "INSTA WIN BUTTON".
Kabold why dont you just shut up? Maybe you should go and look up the word "instant" in a dictionary or ask on of your midgard healers.
Calling the theurgist air spec overpowered is like calling the enchanter mana spec gimped.
I dont know how often i already posted it here, and it starts to get annoying, but HOW can a specline with a simple single target spec nuke, a nearly useless gimped AOE mezmerize and some pets, that are only really useful in 1 vs 1 encounters or to distract healers/mezzers, but cost a SHITLOAD of power, be overpowered? can anyone explain me that plz?
OK, air spec isnt as broken as cold or earth spec, but its NOT overpowered.
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Xxtayce
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"OK, air spec isnt as broken as cold or earth spec, but its NOT overpowered."
Agreed, and that's why there's not a billion threads on page 1 full of cries to "nerf the theurgist I Win button!". Most people actually have sense. The ones who come here to complain know that they're coming to a thread that only the unloved theurgists read (/cry), so nobody else will see their idiocy and they can shamelessly up their post count without fear.
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GoldManiac
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It's only a matter of time before the theurgists posting here go insane from frustration. Please Mythic, anything at all. Abaddon has another great TL report coming out. Read it and use it.
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Xxtayce
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Maybe they'll use our insanity and make it our new RA. Once every 20 minutes, the theurgist goes insane, and sends one pet of every type at every enemy on the field!!
<cough> Or, maybe they'll just fix us.
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Big_Twinky
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And yet another bump. Trying to keep this on track to discuss and help theurgists, not any other classes. There are plenty of other classes that need help, and if you agree, you are free to start your own thread on it.
Many people from all three realms agree in this thread that theurgists need help.
Would be nice to hear something from someone at Mythic that they got the message and are passing on the info. Or is this thread too long for them to read?
As for the morons and trolls, posts like this usually attract them. Just ignore them. They obviously didnt take the time to read the other pages, so dont take the time to reply to them. No need to dispel any rumors that theurgists are uber, we all know its not true
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AquaBlaze
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"Please Mythic, anything at all. Abaddon has another great TL report coming out. Read it and use it."
*watches Mythic devs grab a copy, and walk into the bathroom with it* Well...guess it saves them having to buy toilet paper...
"There are plenty of other classes that need help"
I agree, there are many other classes that need "upward tweaking"...but none so much as us. In our class, we hold the game's 1st and 2nd crappiest spec lines. This situation isn't helped any by Mythic continuously "nerfing indirectly" or plain & simple ignoring of our class.
Mythic, I hate to be the one to break the news to you, but Theurgists ARE paying customers too, ya know. The only way I'd tolerate any more of this sheer negligence & not knowing your own damn game, were to be if I was playing for free. Either fix my damn Earth/Ice theurgist, or I should be playing for free, providing the last failing 6 sec PBT in PvE...probably in my entire server.
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{old}jakedomino
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Mythic, fix the worst caster class in the game.
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{old}Znail-2
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Personaly I think the only upgrade that may be needed is to the water and earth pets. The pets are supposed to be usefull after all. Personaly I think the pets should be instant cast with 10 sec timers instead of castable. But thats just me.
Else so does the Theurgist have the most utility of any cloth caster. So its not strange that the damage options are a little less them some.
AE CC (root and/or mez depending on spec), PBT, damage add and haste. This isnt crappy support spells.
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Sarumz
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/sniff I'm specced in the two crappiest lines in the game. My first toon and my only 50 and I would play it over all my others but it's not too much fun anymore...I'm playing every other class in the game and loving every single one more that my Theurgy. Abaddon's TL report is great and hopefully someone at mythic will actually read it and listen.
Bah...Mondays
Sarumz 50 Theurgist <DoA> Lancelot
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Crandell
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"Personaly I think the only upgrade that may be needed is to the water and earth pets. The pets are supposed to be usefull after all. Personaly I think the pets should be instant cast with 10 sec timers instead of castable. But thats just me.
Else so does the Theurgist have the most utility of any cloth caster. So its not strange that the damage options are a little less them some.
AE CC (root and/or mez depending on spec), PBT, damage add and haste. This isnt crappy support spells"
Ok so I'm guessing you don't or have not ever played a theurg, sorry there are no water pets, and why would we want a insta cast pet with a 10 second timer? I mean really we could cast 3 times that amount with how we are doing it now.
We have the shortest mez in the game, no one specs IC so no one has the AE ROOT from the ice line, Pbt is a good thing been nerfed a couple of times but you don't see many people with 6 or 8 sec pbt these days because its stupid to go earth. Damage could be given by wizards so really the only thing your theurg is bringing to a group is a haste spell. Wow one support spell, big whoop.
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{old}Neslyn
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"Else so does the Theurgist have the most utility of any cloth caster. So its not strange that the damage options are a little less them some. "
Err, what? My sorcerer runs rings around my theurgist in terms of what he can do.
Power regen
Long single target mez
AE mez
AE str/con debuff
Str debuff
Dex/Qui defbuff
AE Dex/Qui debuff
Root
Possible AE root
Heat/Cold/Matter resist debuffs
Confusion
Amnesia
Cure Mez
Runspeed
Resist mez chant
On top of all that, he's far more effective in PvE than my theurgist ever was.
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Uncreations
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Ice Theurgists need PBAOE and Earth Theurgists need GTAOE .. and maybe a better single DD.
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Jaspere_Danois
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/bump because Theurgists need some lovin'
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Barath-Xap
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"Ice Theurgists need PBAOE and Earth Theurgists need GTAOE .. and maybe a better single DD."
And then the point to playing a wizard would be ...?
Nm, I know the answer -- volcanic pillar.
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Crandell
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Yeah but VP will be nerfed because now wizards are actually killing people, THE HORROR!, anyway
I would like to suggest one thing, I think there should be more pets at higher levels. Maybe pets that only attack doors and siege equipment but do more damage, that one spell would make me want to play more, but i'm talking it better do lots of damage. I'm not talking about 100 damage per hit, I wanna see these pets rip apart doors.
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Big_Twinky
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^^^
Wow...another good idea... wonder how many more we need to come up with for them to act. Oh wait, they did act with SI creating Animists based mainly on Theurgists posting ideas to help their class
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Crandell
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Yeah I love seeing some whisp of light or whatever come at me, circle around me and then hit me for oh say 400 or so, two on me and i'm dead, ok so where are my pets that do around 400 in one hit?
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{old}Daltarr
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Yup, wizards' VP will be nerfed shortly I concur. Apparently, Mythic found out that Albion Elementalists actually had a way to damage and kill enemies. The horror.
Question: What do you get when you combine two different Albion classes in the wizard and the theurgist?
Answer: The melee realm Runemaster.
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Barath-Xap
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"Maybe pets that only attack doors and siege equipment but do more damage, that one spell would make me want to play more, but i'm talking it better do lots of damage. I'm not talking about 100 damage per hit, I wanna see these pets rip apart doors."
I think you can forget your dreams of being seigemasters entirely. Mythic made a big blunder by ever printing that original statement about theurgists and the seige bolt RA is simply their attempt to acknolwedge the mistake and move on. You can't give one realm a class that excels at seiges without ridiculously imbalancing the game. People would roll theurgist bots just to use them when there's a keep take or relic raid and blow up the doors, making defense nearly impossible. It would be completely unfair to the other realms who lack that ability, making keep taking far too easy for albs.
I'm all for seeing theurgist get some new, balanced abilities. Pets or nukes that shred keep doors are way out of line though.
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Crandell
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Yeah god forbid theurgs actually be used for something. I mean when you go earth you give up ever wanting to cuase damage to someone and if you go ice, well you kiss your power away, just go wind and be like everyone else.
My new suggestion just get rid of earth and ice, add pbt to the wind spec and there all done.
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GoldManiac
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My new suggestion is to put pbt, weapon haste, and run speed on wizards and give the theurgist a refund.
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Big_Twinky
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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>>
My new suggestion is to put pbt, weapon haste, and run speed on wizards and give the theurgist a refund.
<<
I know some theurgists who would be very happy with a /class respec and let them all become wizards.
Give the haste to another caster (cabbie or sorc) put pbt in wizzie earth line and give them base speed (flaming feet or something)
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AquaBlaze
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"/bump because Theurgists need some lovin'"
Actually, at this point, Earth & Ice need much more than love. We need some ****ing *** *** ***** ***s ***** and ****ed on our **** *** *****!!
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Crandell
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Wow 30 pages and over 750 post and still we haven't figured out why theurgs haven't gotten any love yet.
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GoldManiac
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Last bump before work. Theurgists!!!!
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AquaBlaze
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"Wow 30 pages and over 750 post and still we haven't figured out why theurgs haven't gotten any love yet."
And that is just THIS thread's incarnation. ^_^ Add up the other "fix theurgist" threads that have come and gone, you're looking at least 3x the amount here.
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Crandell
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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bump back to page one.
I would really like to see comments from Juile or Sanya on why theurgs have been left out, I mean really whats going through their heads?
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Sarumz
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whoot whoot bump for da love...there are some great ideas in this thread and if anyone from Mythic skips to this page alot of the ideas are in Abaddon's report and some other good ones floating around. PLEASE HELP US
cibola bumpty bumpty bumpty......
Sarumz 50 Theurgist <DoA> Lancelot
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Barath-Xap
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Please mythic give theurgists some attention so this thread will finally die ...
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Crandell
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bump to the top
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AquaBlaze
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"I would really like to see comments from Juile or Sanya on why theurgs have been left out, I mean really whats going through their heads?"
Jack and Squat...though, I think they ran out of Squat already.
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Crandell
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Bump
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{old}Bearster_NA
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Bump for the thurg Loving!!!
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_Arandal_
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"I think you can forget your dreams of being seigemasters entirely. Mythic made a big blunder by ever printing that original statement about theurgists and the seige bolt RA is simply their attempt to acknolwedge the mistake and move on. "
Its a bit deeper than that...
As you level, theurgist "rank" and titles are all about siege (siege specialist, siege engineer, etc).
Even when you visit the theurgist trainer for the first time, its all about how effective you shall be in siege...
(admittedly, it has been a long time since I signed up to be a theurgist and levelled... might be a bit rusty on the specifics).
So, if it were just one blurb in an obscure document, it might be possible to over look it... but it permeates the entire class.
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AquaBlaze
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"Even when you visit the theurgist trainer for the first time, its all about how effective you shall be in siege..."
Sounds like our trainer is pretty hopped up on some gooood hibbie shrooms, don't you agree?
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Crandell
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Great, now we realize whats going on, MY TRAINERS ARE AT FAULT, damn pot smoking hippies.
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{old}Jaavon
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"Personaly I think the only upgrade that may be needed is to the water and earth pets. The pets are supposed to be usefull after all. Personaly I think the pets should be instant cast with 10 sec timers instead of castable. But thats just me"
5s recast and you have a deal.
to point out the earth pets gimpness ... i quit using them in rvr. I use my green air pets (2nd highest air pet is all I have so it cons green--what is that ... level 39 or something?) because their stun, while short and definitely not permanent actually adds some value to the pet.
I'm all for siege pets ... or just making the pets we have uber on doors. Maybe raise their to hit to 75% or so and have them hit for 100 damage a swing.
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Demonic_Apparition
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bump
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Crandell
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bump
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CSteel
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bump... +1 to my post count woohoo
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Crandell
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Bump because after a night of RvR I am so MAD!
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{old}LandaPanda
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Bye, Bye ,Bye I'm/ doing this tonight
You're/ probably gonna start a fight
I/ know this can't be right
Hey baby come on
I/ loved you endlessly
When/ you weren't there for me
So/ now it's time to leave
And make it alone
I know that I can't take no more
It ain't no lie
I wanna see you out that door
Baby, bye, bye, bye
Don't wanna be a fool for you
Just another player in your game for two
You may hate me
But it ain't no lie
Baby, Bye, bye, bye
Don't really wanna make it tough
I just wanna tell you that I had enough
Might sound crazy
But it ain't no lie
Bye, bye bye (bye)
You/ just hit me with the truth
Now/ girl you're more than welcome to
So/ give me one good reason
Baby, come on.
I/ lived for you and me
And/ now I've really come to see
That/ life would be much better
Once you're gone
I know that I can't take no more
It ain't no lie
I wanna see you out that door
Baby, bye bye bye
I'm giving up I know for sure
I don't wanna be the reason for your love no more
Bye, bye
I'm checking out
I'm signing off
I don't wanna be the loser
And I've had enough
I don't wanna be a fool
In this game for two
So I'm leaving you behind
bye, bye, bye
I don't wanna make it tough
But I had enough
(bye, bye)
And it ain't no lie
bye, bye
Don't wanna be a fool for you
Just another player in your game for two
Don't wanna be your fool
But it ain't no lie
Baby, bye, bye, bye
Don't really wanna make it tough
I just wanna tell you that I've had enough
It may sound crazy
but it ain't no lie
Baby, bye, bye, bye
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{old}LandaPanda
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Bye, Bye ,Bye I'm/ doing this tonight
You're/ probably gonna start a fight
I/ know this can't be right
Hey baby come on
I/ loved you endlessly
When/ you weren't there for me
So/ now it's time to leave
And make it alone
I know that I can't take no more
It ain't no lie
I wanna see you out that door
Baby, bye, bye, bye
Don't wanna be a fool for you
Just another player in your game for two
You may hate me
But it ain't no lie
Baby, Bye, bye, bye
Don't really wanna make it tough
I just wanna tell you that I had enough
Might sound crazy
But it ain't no lie
Bye, bye bye
You/ just hit me with the truth
Now/ girl you're more than welcome to
So/ give me one good reason
Baby, come on.
I/ lived for you and me
And/ now I've really come to see
That/ life would be much better
Once you're gone
I know that I can't take no more
It ain't no lie
I wanna see you out that door
Baby, bye bye bye
I'm giving up I know for sure
I don't wanna be the reason for your love no more
Bye, bye
I'm checking out
I'm signing off
I don't wanna be the loser
And I've had enough
I don't wanna be a fool
In this game for two
So I'm leaving you behind
bye, bye, bye
I don't wanna make it tough
But I had enough
(bye, bye)
And it ain't no lie
bye, bye
Don't wanna be a fool for you
Just another player in your game for two
Don't wanna be your fool
But it ain't no lie
Baby, bye, bye, bye
Don't really wanna make it tough
I just wanna tell you that I've had enough
It may sound crazy
but it ain't no lie
Baby, bye, bye, bye
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AquaBlaze
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Did anyone else just hear a Theurgist's brain finally snap?
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Kathshar
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bump for theurgs everywhere!
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{old}fludane
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go theurgists! its ur birthday! is it? (/huh?!!!)
THEURGIST POWER
(well do we have any left?)
/BUMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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oxedus
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"well do we have any left?"
/cast mystic crystal lore (MCL)
/cast level 50 BUMP!!!!!
or maybe cast pulsing bumping turn (PBT)
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GoldManiac
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Begins to cast a bumping spell... oh look a little doggy.
Runs off and plays with the doggy and never fights in RVR again.
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{old}jakedomino
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Mythic, help the worst caster class in the game with the single worst spec line in the game NOW.
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AquaBlaze
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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"Mythic, help the worst caster class in the game with the single worst spec line in the game NOW."
Actually, we have the 1st AND 2nd worst spec lines in the game. Aren't we special?
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prime311
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Here's my idea's:
Earth:
Baseline scale to 179DD(level 49)for Theurgs and Earth Wizzies.
Ice:
GTAE DoT sounds like a good idea, otherwise Nearsight would also fit well here. Either will give people more incentive to second spec Ice instead of Air or Earth. I havent seen numbers on Ice pet damage, perhaps that also needs to be looked at.
Air:
Increased duration on all secondary AE mezzes(Air Theurg, Light Eld, Dark SM)
And I actually think there's worse speclines(Dark BD's, Summ Sm's, Enchant Chanters, I know Animists and Necro's have a few really crappy lines too), but Ice isn't that hot and Earth is really hurting.
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Sarumz
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We are too special...in fact I think Landa is now a very special theurgy <looks for straight jacket> :P hehe So basically Mythic won't look thru 757 posts asking for help but hopefully they look HERE!@ Please please please read Abaddon's report and HELP US
Oh btw...Arandal, I had never even thought about our titles as we trained. That's one hell of a good point. Mythic can you please respond about this?? I'm still waiting for the seige part. Ok, so as a tailor I can seigecraft but note with my pathetic strength I cant carry a ram or treb without taking up extra buffs from a cleric. hrm. ...Theurgys were mostly broken (no complaints about air) from day 1.......
mmmm coffee, the fuel for bumpage
Sarumz 50 Theurgist <DoA> Lancelot
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Crandell
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Yeah realizing now that even our trainers believe we are suppose to be siege weapons for albion and we aren't, MYTHIC FIX US!
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{old}NevermoreRaven
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You target [keep door].
You cast greater earth elemental.
You cast greater earth elemental.
You cast greater earth elemental.
You cast greater earth elemental.
You cast greater earth elemental.
You cast greater earth elemental.
You don't have the power to cast that spell!
The greater earth elemental swings and misses!
The greater earth elemental swings and misses!
The greater earth elemental swings and misses!
The greater earth elemental knocks on the door.
The greater earth elemental swings and misses!
The greater earth elemental dies.
SomeHibInvader laughs at you.
SomeHibInvader says something in a language you can't understand.
You hire a translator.
Translator tells you, "He told you to quit knocking on the door. They're trying to watch a movie inside and the noise is really annoying."
You suffer a massive brain hemmorage.
You have died fighting for your realm and lose no experience. You're sanity is another matter though.
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Uncreations
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PBAOE DD for Ice Theurgists. GTAOE DD for Earth Theurgists.
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Shadowmage
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I keep getting this french guy telling me to go away or he will fart in my general direction everytime I attack a keep.
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prime311
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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PBAE for Ice would make them too akin to Ice Wizzies IMO, GT DoT or NS would fit better I still think.
GTAE won't help Earth Theurgs, they need a DD they can use while leveling up.
Making Theurg pets do increased damage versus keep equipment is a pretty cool idea IMO. They should've done that instead of giving them 2k range.
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GoldManiac
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Gtaoedot for ice!! Power tap for earth!!! 1500 range mez for air!!!! All pets cost 6% power ( or a fixed amount)!!!!! Air pets stun for 10 seconds with an immunity timer (to shut morons up)!!!!!!
Theurgists are now a viable RVR class with siege abilities!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Under_World
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bRaiN OvERlOadinG MiNd bReaKiNG dOwN!!11!!11
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{old}blackhunter13
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Theurgists need skill, not love. Goto to Kmart and buy some.
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Fallow_Swiftblade
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I'm sure it's already been mentioned, but...
if Mythic gave a rat's ass about theurgists, Hibernia wouldn't have the animist class. Huge chunks of the animist's description were, originally anyway, copied verbatim from the Thurgy team lead reports.
Theurgists did get fixed. They're called Animists now.
Mythic could care less about the theurgist.
Their absence from this post should make that abundantly clear.
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Crandell
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I'm still waiting for some people come in here and tell us why we haven't gotten any love. All I have heard is the every so popular rant about air stunning pets, and we have all shot that down, is that it.?
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{old}monkshak
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/bump
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Sarumz
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lol, the "just get skills guy is back" ...thanks for the bump and btw...until you play a 50 theurgist you have no need coming to this thread. Take your ignorant and zero substance posts elsewhere....and thanks for the bump.
BTW...at least myself thinks Abaddon's TL Report is spot on so for substance I just humbly ask mythic to read his rather intelligent and well thought out report.
Sarumz 50 Theurgist <DoA> Lancelot
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{old}Daltarr
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Theurgists, that 'other' caster of DAoC.
What's an Ice Theurgist? A gimp.
What's an Earth Theurgist? A gimp, who may as well be afk.
What's an Air Theurgist? An average at best DD caster, who gets blown away by his Hib/Mid counterparts.
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Wumpusrat
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*bump plus some comments*
Well, I don't have a 50 Theurgist (she's sitting at 41 and unplayed), but they do need some serious help. They have the least spells of ANY caster in the entire game, and their "class-defining" spells (the temp-pets) are woefully inadequate ('chain-stunning' air pets aside, which still don't chain-stun very well).
Anyone who says they've been "totally owned" by an air-theurge is an idjit, who let a caster stand within range of them for 20+ seconds without being interrupted. Heck, a nuker could have killed you in half that time.
Anyway. I'm not sure exactly what would make Theurges better and more fun to play. Definitely making improvements to their pets; maybe make them last longer, giving them the ability to summon a 'permanent' pet of one of the types, give them a couple more spells in the earth and ice lines (which are incredibly sparse as they stand right now).
I mean sheesh, I don't play my Theurge anymore because ever since I got PBT all I do in a group is turn it on and sit there. I can't nuke, because I'm primarily earth spec'd, and if I nuke too much, my power drops below half, and my PBT starts draining power faster than it can come back. And Sorcerers are too few and far between to always have one around for the power regen. Same with Minstrels.
Ugh. The class is boring as heck. At least Wardens can heal, or hell, fight if they wanna while chanting PBT.
Oh well. Fix us! (And please, Mythic, not in your usual 'trip to the vet' type of 'fix!')
-the rat
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Celoth
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I play a 50 earth theurg. Have for a while now. They aren't bad in PvE and my groups usually love having me along because of the PBT and damage and haste buffs.
In RvR...well..If I am not the first one to die, I sure as hell do get stunned and/or mezzed, completely negating the only thing I provide the group: PBT. I can do very little nuking damage, and my earth pets cause woefully little damage or confusion.
I don't have a problem with not doing damage as an earth theurg. But I need something, anything, to make me useful in RvR.
1. I'd like to see much better group defensive spells like group absorb buffs and such, or maybe a group matter resist.
2. I'd like better self only defense buffs so I don't die first all the time. PBT alone just doesn't cut it and I don't have any offensive spells to speak of.
3. I'd like for PBT to keep runnning even if stunned or mezzed. And with my experience so far that won't be overpowered one little bit.
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Crandell
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BUMP
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{old}LandaPanda
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lock plz
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{old}Greaves_Merlin
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yea this thread is getting annoying
stop crying like little babies and learn to play your class.
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{old}jakedomino
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"stop crying like little babies and learn to play your class."
We know how to play the class. The problem is that the class is BROKEN.
The earth spec line is the single worst spec line in the game.
Pets do not have a fixed cost, they take too long to reach their targets, and they die too soon.
The siege aspects of being a theurgist, always promised but never delivered, don't exist.
Theurgists, no matter who is playing them or how well, are still the worst caster class in the game, and they still need help.
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{old}Jaavon
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Landa: "lock plz "
^ ban plz.
as for the thread getting annoying ... is that because it keeps hopping above skald and volcanic pillar threads? Wonder why ... maybe because there are classes besides the skald and more pressing issues than a pure damage caster doing damage instead of tickling their enemies to death.
/sigh.
/bump.
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Crandell
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Please don't come to this thread saying stupid things really, If you don't have something either creative to say or something that supports a agurment then just go pharm on one of the many other threads.
We have given plenty of ideas and have shot down any reason why people think we don't need help.
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Crandell
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Guess what time it is, BUMP TIME
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Crandell
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just like my body said before me, BUMP!
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{old}Daltarr
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Unlike all these other reletively new issues and problems in this game, Theurgs have been screwed since oh, about day#1. That's what, almost 2 years? Amazing, simply amazing.
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Demonic_Apparition
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bumpz0r
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AquaBlaze
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"The earth spec line is the single worst spec line in the game."
The Earth spec line is NOT the worst spec line in the game...Ice is. Ain't it a nice honor, to have the 1st and 2nd crappiest spec lines on a single character?
And joy! We play them!
And as to those who think we should just bugger off, or that for 2 years, nobody has YET figured out to play Theurgists right...enjoy a tall frosty glass of STFU. K? Thanks.
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GoldManiac
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That's right ignorant fools... all theurgists in the world of DAOC don't know how to play their class.
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sanoshi
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At the moment, theurgs are a waste of hard drive memory on the servers.
WE NEED LOVE
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Latric
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Come on Mythic look at what your two top issues are here. Fix the theurgist and put teh group xp code back the way it was before you broke it. Both these have been around for ages now and it is time you got around to doing something about the problems.
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Xxtayce
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Agreed! Oh, and the newer PvE bug that still isn't really fixed. Anyway, back to theurgists: LOVE US!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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_Arandal_
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Recipe for a Siege Mage
Take one theurgist
add a heaping teaspoon of fletching or tailoring
a pinch of Aug STR
2 shakes of Lifter
1 treb
makes 1 siege mage.
note: don't waste time on techniques such as training in theurgy past level 10. You will be just as effective at 10 as you will be at 50 with the above recipe.
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oxedus
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reading the THEURGIST TL REPORT, makes me more convinced that we have a very good team lead. It is just a matter of making mythic listens, reads the TL REPORTS, and implements the changes proposed.
For Pete's sake, GIVE THEURGIST LOVE that they long deserve!
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{old}fludane
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/BUMP it up
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74orgun
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NO THEY DONT
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Xxtayce
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You're right. Theurgists don't perform as they should when compared to any caster of any realm. Give us love.
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{old}jakedomino
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" The Earth spec line is NOT the worst spec line in the game...Ice is."
No, it isn't. I played both on Pendragon at a 50 spec. Earth is far worse. Try it and see.
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Big_Twinky
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Just a note from someone, anyone from Mythic would be great.
Until then, /bump
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{old}Jaavon
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got bump?
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Crandell
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need bump
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Stony_Monolith
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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<Stonee casts PBT>
<Stonee buffs group>
<Stonee activates MCL>
<Stonee sits down for 10 min>
<Stonee buffs group>
<Stonee activates MCL>
<Stonee sits down for 10 min>
<Stonee buffs group>
<Stonee activates MCL>
<Stonee sits down for 10 min>
<Stonee pulls hair out and yells>
SAVE ME, OH Please save me....mutter
Oh yeah, bump.
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Level 50 Fire Specced Pincushion(Wizard) <-----<< I hope a ranger doesn't see me.
Stonee - 50 Earth Specced Bubble Machine
Stoni - 50 Scout, Stonye - 50 Paladin
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xearojc
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^Thurgs can do more then that :P
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Skull Throne - <KoS>
^X^ © 2008
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Crandell
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If your an earth theurg, all you can do is Buff your group, and run pbt. If you cast pets or nuke you will run out of power so quickly that then your pbt stops, which if your pbt stops you are pretty much taking up space in a group. We are walking talking bubble blowing buff bots.
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{old}NevermoreRaven
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--
" The Earth spec line is NOT the worst spec line in the game...Ice is."
No, it isn't. I played both on Pendragon at a 50 spec. Earth is far worse. Try it and see.
--
I'm afraid I must agree that Ice is the greater of the two evils here. After all, how many theurgists are out there with Ice as their main spec?
Yes Earth is boring and drains power like mad, but at least the 6 sec bladeturn and weapon buffs are useful. The only thing Ice spec is good for is a weaker direct damage than its wind counterparts that drains power at an insane rate and a snare that is worthless if you have rooted/area rooted the enemy.
But that's just my opinion from playing a season 50 theurgist(47 earth, 26 ice). <shrugs>
Edit: Oh and let's not forget resists nowadays. At least bladeturn and buffs can't be resisted... except for the whole archer deal with bladeturn <sighs>.
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{old}NevermoreRaven
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--
^Thurgs can do more then that :P
--
He's right actually... we CAN do more. Just tweak the previous:
<Casts PBT>
<Buffs group>
<Activates MCL>
<Sits down for 10 min>
<Repeat>
to
<Casts PBT>
<Buffs self and all tanks>
<Activates MCL>
<Beats on Mobs with staff, ignoring laughter from the other group members>
<Sits between battles>
<Repeat>
Its only slightly less boring, plus it fits in with the whole Earth Theurgists are insane from lack of being able to do hardly anything other than buffing.
After all... what kind of mage runs into battle to melee?
The Insane Theurgfriar! Rawr!
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Crandell
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TheurgFrair, I like that. I've done it many of times, I mean why nuke when I can at least go in and fight hand to hand, and oh yeah I have a staff that has an insta fire damage on it, so woohoo. WATCH OUT
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Azhrarn_Alb
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In brief, for the speed-reading Midgard players who have misread the topic to read "Air Theurgists need love".
This topic is NOT ABOUT THE AIR SPECLINE. This topic is ABOUT THE BROKEN EARTH AND ICE SPECLINES.
The more Albs who move back over to Earth and Ice (almost all theurgs play Air now) as a _utility_ class, the less 'uber chainstunning pets of death' you'll have to face in the future.
If you don't believe me, /level 30 a theurgist and spec them Earth or Ice yourself (NOT AIR). They're awful and they only get worse from there.
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Crandell
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There really isn't any need to take a theurg up to 30 to figure out they suck, just start one out. 1-5 and you'll quit.
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Xxtayce
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I made mine full air till 40 so I could level on my own till pbt was important. Sad, really, but earth/ice suck lots.
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Crandell
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*starting to get tired of bumping*
b..........u.......m...........p *gasp*
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GuaQ
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Wow I think the idea of putting cold debuffs in earth spec is a good idea.
Would put theurg on par with mana chanter and runecarv runie, being able to 50% debuff, then baseline ice nuke.
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Demonic_Apparition
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BUMPAGE! OOOH YEAH!
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Crandell
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bump bumping
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GoldManiac
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Played my theurgist in RVR today for the first time in months. Got hit for 900 by a mid tank and stun nuked dead by a hib caster. Was the first dead in half the battles and contributed very little in the battles I survived. Remind me why I leveled to 50 again.
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AquaBlaze
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"No, it isn't. I played both on Pendragon at a 50 spec. Earth is far worse. Try it and see."
Guys...why are we arguing which of our spec lines are the crappiest? Be it Earth or Ice, it's a sad state of affairs that the 1st and 2nd crappiest spec lines are on one character: the Theurgist.
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Keroth
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bump for the thurgy-love
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oxedus
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yea man, we are the siege specialist. we should be proud! we are overpowered, we own in rvr. we have so many usefull spells that increase our survivability. other casters are jealous with us, especially hib casters.
THEURGIST rule
God I must be on crack.
Give us, theurgists, the love we deserved of which we are promised of.
BUMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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GoldManiac
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I want to play my theurgist again. Please give me a reason to.
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{old}fludane
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i wanna be an ice theurgist i don't know what the hell is wrong with my head.
BUMPer!!!!!!!!!!
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{old}Jaavon
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...bump
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Crandell
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Wow Another day and another bump is anyone getting this point? I mean really
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Big_Twinky
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Another bump.
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Uncreations
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I think Earth Theurgist should have GTAOE ... perhaps a little higher damage than Earth Wizard's current GTAOE.
/BUMP
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Barath-Xap
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Too much gtae in the game as is. I'm sick of things implemented in the game whose sole purpose really is to interrupt casters.
Come up with something useful but more creative to help the class, please.
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Crandell
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Hey I'm all for some sort of oringal spell idea.
Earth theurg get Earth Quake, simple spell that could act like a low level AOE spell around the caster, could cause like a root damage spell or a slow and damage spell, this would give the caster the ability to damage those coming to kill him and be able to run from danger.
Ice Could get a Blizzard spell of some sort, AoE attack spell.
Fix power issues with pets, make pets do something a bit more, hit harder so that when i lose 12% of my power i don't feel dirty after using it.
just fix us
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Crandell
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and look you go back to the top just like that.
I'll even sing a 80s song as the bumpage occurs
All those that like early Cure FIX THEURGS!
bump bump bump bump bump bump bump
Ahhh we move like caged tigers.
Oh we couldn't get closer then this.
The way we walk
The way we talk
the way we stalk
the way we kiss
yes i'm bored at work, SO SUE ME!
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Big_Twinky
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Another original spell (going along the Blizzard idea) would be an AE Nearsight spell called Blizzard. Its effect would not be nearly as bad as the NS in the game today. The NS we know today scales from 25% to 65% vision reduction and a 2300 range.
You can have Blizzard at 1500 range, with a 300 radius and it would dish out 15%, 20%, 25%, 30% and 35% vision reduction (depending on spec level). This would be a great tool used in siege warfare as it would hurt casters and archers on the walls if attacking or the ones on the ground if defending.
I’d like to see a GTAE DoT put into the Earth line as well. This would add a bit of spice to it, giving some AE Dmg.
Other classes in other realms that are moaning that their lines are broken and boring could get an equivalent of each of these, so as to keep the realms on equal footing.
This would help theurgists as long as other aspects of the earth and ice lines are fixed, such as pet utility and power cost.
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Latric
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Here are some ideas for the animist ...
eh-hem theurgist. Make our pets insta cast on a 4 sec timer. Yes I know you can throw them faster than that now but this way you could cast them while casting something else. Air would get a nice little boost from this. You would still need to fix ice pets so that their spells actully hit a lot more often. ice would be a good spec after this releasing nuking pets while you snare nuked sould be effective. Earth would still need some help. I would suggest giving them an added self ablative chant and a str con buff. That way they could front load damage with earth pets and base ice nuke, then finish with melee using the haste and damage add. PBT and ablative should let them get a few swings off while still contnueing to insta cast pets.
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Barath-Xap
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I don't understand this bitterness of theurgists toward animists. I mean, animists are even more broken in many ways than theurgists ... hell, at least your pets can move ...
Would you really wanna trade your theurgist in for an animist? At least you have one line that most people agree isn't gimped beyond repair.
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Sarumz
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Whoot 800 posts and growing lol. I just noticed actually that from the base group calling for help many more have come on board. Out of all of Albion (other than Arms) we are the only ones asking for some help. How long do you think this thread can get??
cibola bumpty bumpty bumpty
Sarumz 50 Theurgist <DoA> Lancelot
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Big_Twinky
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Theurgists are not holding anything against Animists themselves. Animists have done nothing wrong.
It’s the fact that for a year or so, many Theurgists posted ideas and thoughts on how to fix their class…improvements that Mythic could take to make the class fun, viable and diverse.
Then SI comes out and many many many of these improvements were taken by Mythic and made into a new class called the Animist. It has nothing to do with who is gimpier than who, as Animist clearly have their own problem.
Theurgists just see Animists as what were supposed to be the improvements to their class, or at least the brain power that went into them. And yes, if you take some of the Animists abilities and put them into different Theurgist spec lines, this would make a more fun and more viable character (don’t take them as is though, fix them first hehe).
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{old}NevermoreRaven
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You cast Skin of Diamond.
You cast Greater Earthen Fury.
Your weapon is enchanted with the strength of earth!
You target [Theurgist: They need some loving...].
You enter combat mode!
You fail to effect the thread!
You fail to effect the thread!
You fail to effect the thread!
You hit the thread for 1 (-9999) bumpage!
You do 0 extra bumpage.
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Stony_Monolith
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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<quote>
<Casts PBT>
<Buffs self and all tanks>
<Activates MCL>
<Beats on Mobs with staff, ignoring laughter from the other group members>
<Sits between battles>
<Repeat>
</quote>
You know I have tried bashing things with my stick, but it seems my power regen isn't enough while doing so. I can enter combat every three mobs or so and sit on other two or I get below 50% power and then have a hard time getting back above. I usually forgo the haste on the next round of buffs when I get below 50%.
Oh.. almost forgot.. BUMP
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Level 50 Fire Specced Pincushion(Wizard) <-----<< I hope a ranger doesn't see me.
Stonee - 50 Earth Specced Bubble Machine
Stoni - 50 Scout, Stonye - 50 Paladin
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{old}NevermoreRaven
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Well I did have Serenity II, I'm sure that helped. I did steadily lose power while meleeing too, but not quite that bad. I usually just sat a few battles out and eventually I had MCL to fill in the gap. I still managed to keep the tanks fully buffed too.
Although I agree with an earlier sentiment made in this thread. The thread is so long now I don't remember who said it... it is dissapointing that earth theurgists must rely on realm abilities so heavily in order to keep from being so completely worthless when they hit the end of the game.
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Crandell
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I really don't even know of many RA's that can help the Earth theurg, I have Serentiy 3 and i'm 6 points from getting serentiy 4, I have mcl but really don't find anything else useful.
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Stony_Monolith
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I have serenity 3 and MCL and that helps greatly.. if there is a minstrel or a sorc in group, I can even cast a few spells.. but it was just insane before I got the serenity. As far as using the MCL between buffs, I really don't like using it at that point. I like to keep it just incase I get killed. Every once in a while one of the Inquisitors will come knock me around while going through the HL and such and my group is very dependent on PBT to stay alive. And when our group dies down near the High Lords not too many other groups can make their way down to res us.(Only a very few PBT theurg on Perc and No deep exploring DF group will live long without 6s PBT)
Bump
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Level 50 Fire Specced Pincushion(Wizard) <-----<< I hope a ranger doesn't see me.
Stonee - 50 Earth Specced Bubble Machine
Stoni - 50 Scout, Stonye - 50 Paladin
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{old}NevermoreRaven
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I wasn't that high of a realm rank but my original view for my theurgist was an all out utility/support player. Thus I also had Mastery of the Arcane 2(+3% increase in buff effectiveness per level) for realm abilities.
Unfortunately after they nerfed damage adds, I'm not sure if it was worth it. I had people tell me that my haste buff was "uber" but I don't ever recall anyone telling me how much they loved my damage add which was very, very dissapointing to me as an earth theurgist.
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Azhrarn_Alb
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Yeah, I remember when damage add was something that the newbies would look forward to you casting on them.
Whenever I was demoralized with RvR, I used to hang out at the bridge near Alb DF and just buff the lowbies with earth dmg add and haste. The appreciation made some of the pain go away.
"<quote>
<Casts PBT>
<Buffs self and all tanks>
<Activates MCL>
<Beats on Mobs with staff, ignoring laughter from the other group members>
<Sits between battles>
<Repeat>
</quote> "
Heh. I used to do that all the time.
Before Savages, I used to do that a lot in RvR combat when I was (always) out of mana.
I like the other fellow's comment "Beware the Theurgfriar!"
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{old}Jaavon
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i have to spend 16 realm points just to stand up and wield my stick as an earth theurgist Serenity III + Aug Acuity II (pre-req). Thats kind of ... ridiculous.
I hate using MCL after buffing but you have to unless you have a 2nd power regen source in your group (in addition to Serenity III). Otherwise you'll be left sitting on your arse with 25% power left waiting for 7 minutes or so to get back to full power. If you only have serenity II, below half power, you can sit down and break even on power consumption.
regardless ...
bump.
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Shadowmage
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I would like to see all the chants and songs and group spells also affect elementals just like they do other pets. SO if I have PBT up and near the frount line my elementals get PBT. If a Mins is playing Speed My Elementals would get a speed boost while in range.
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_Arandal_
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"Too much gtae in the game as is. I'm sick of things implemented in the game whose sole purpose really is to interrupt casters."
Well yes, and no.
Unfortunately, AoE spells are the only "siege approrpiate" spells in this game. And guess who is supposed to be the siege mage -- yet has no form of AoE at all.
It shows too... look at the RP earnings for the theurgist.
The caster interrupt issue is an important, but separate topic.
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GoldManiac
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My wizard hit 49 today. One more level and I can retire my theurgist forever . . .
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{old}NevermoreRaven
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Did anybody else feel slightly annoyed when they changed some of our epic staves from being enchanted with procs to having charges instead?
I know wizards, cabalists and sorcerers very very rarely ever hit anything with their staves and the charges added a bit more utility to the weapons for them... but for me as a "theurgfriar" I missed seeing the explosion graphic go off when I pummeled them with my staff.
Now if that isn't a sorry state of affairs I don't know what is. Mythic actually fixed something that made no sense (mage weapons having melee procs on them) and a theurgist who'd rather have kept the melee proc.
Luckily I outgrew the staff shortly after that change. I never did manage to find a fletcher/alchemist to create me a new "thurgfriar" staff though :P
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{old}NevermoreRaven
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With the new /level bringing so many new 20s and 30s into the game... does it really matter anymore if our weapon buffs "allows low-level characters to level far faster than intended?"
The first 5 times I did the 1 - 24 level grind to Thidranki, I didn't mind.
The first 15 times I did the 1 - 5 grind to try out new classes, I didn't mind.
Its not an issue for me anymore, since I can use the /level command. What about those that don't have that luxury yet?
So we could help somebody go from 1 - 10 in a few hours... its not like the over abundance of low level toons is going to upset the realm war balance. Hell, this game doesn't even get the slightest bit interesting until 15. Even then until you hit 20 - 24 you don't know what you're missing.
I really do miss walking into Mithra and following a group of random players around and buffing them.
But with /level, it shouldn't be an issue anymore should it? <sighs> Well here's dreaming that they unnerf our buffs to what they were pre 1.55 days.
Just like enhancing theurgists, it'll never happen. I'll keep dreaming though.
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Under_World
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/Bump for a class thats actually worse off than mine.
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oxedus
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yummy... bumping is actually fun.
is there such thing as bungee bumping?
btw insta cast pet is a nice idea actually.
give theurgist da love!!!!
Fix Theurgist!
BUMP!
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Infectiousdeath
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Didn't read this whole thread, but here goes...
A base dmg type resist debuff in a useful/semi-useful spec for alb would be nice (spirit cabs dont count, some snares and pet buffs :P). Although, I can't say I like RC RMs or mana chanters...
A gtae and a single low delve DD in earth would be nice, along w/ reduction in pbt cost (on all 3 pbt classes, for the reduction).
Ice...maybe a ae dex/quick debuff (arms get cold and can't move or some such idea). Some sort of buff to the DDs wouldn't hurt too much, either.
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{old}jakedomino
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Bump to fix the worst caster class in the game.
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{old}fludane
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bump, fix theurgist god damn it.
bring back the fun in playing theurgist.
help earth and ice theurgists.
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Big_Twinky
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morning bumpage
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{old}fludane
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heheheh morning bumpage huh
what about this:
4TH OF JULY BUMPAGE
Happy 4th of july
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oxedus
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Heheheh happy 4th of july to theurgists in the states
FIX THEURGIST! lol
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GoldManiac
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I want to take my theurgist into RVR. Give me a reason to.
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{old}Jaavon
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because it looks like fireworks when a 'chanter lights you up.
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{old}Killplenty
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Earth and ice theurgists sure do need love. All theurgists should have elemental casting costs - now stupidly in percentages of total power - converted to a fixed cost like every other caster class. The speed of elementals also needs to be increased.
Plus, given what enchanter pets are allowed to do in this game I say "Bring back chain stunning!"
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Big_Twinky
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Or you can make the pet casting cost 12% of whatever power you have left, as long as you have over 40 power (to ensure you cant cast non top)
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ding dong
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Azhrarn_Alb
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Simple solutions like that wouldn't fix the huge issues with earth and ice speclines.
That solution wouldn't solve the power issues that earth theurgists have (if you're at 40 power, you're below 50% and constantly draining if you're running bubble).
It also wouldn't solve any of the problems with the ice specline since the ice elementals are worthless at the moment (interrupt own spellcasting, bad LoS issues, low damage, resists).
The only solutions that make sense and are fair are in Abaddon's TL report.
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{old}Daltarr
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Theurgs, the other white meat. Yummy RP for the Mids and Hibs though.
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GoldManiac
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And another week gone by with no response.
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Crandell
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bump
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ibof
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/Bump for theurgs, earth and ice are broken lines.
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AquaBlaze
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Screw broken lines...more like a broken class. Simply put, the 1st and 2nd crappiest spec lines in the game should NOT comprise 2/3 of the skills for an entire class. Fix SOMETHING Mythic! I ain't payin' you to find out how to make me a more pointier hat, ya know.
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{old}Mavl1
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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shameless bump
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AquaBlaze
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No page 2 for you!
...and then?
NO PAGE 2!
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{old}Jaavon
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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"The only solutions that make sense and are fair are in Abaddon's TL report."
theres lots of other plausible ideas that abaddon doesn't have in his report. About 50% of the ideas posted in TL report and through these boards would help the class immensely without overpowering it ... it doesn't really matter what they do - just that they do it.
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{old}Daltarr
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Ice line needs PBAE. Make it a 3.0 sec cast to not compete with ice wizards. Hibernia has 2 PBAE casters, and Albion has more classes & casters than they do. Albion classes should have equal or more overlap.
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{old}jakedomino
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Bump for major and much-needed theurgist love.
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AquaBlaze
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"Ice line needs PBAE."
I think we need something unique to adequately fix these broken lines. If you give us a "watered down" ability from another class, not only will the mimiced class cry fowl, and Theurgists would still feel like some inept sham of a functional Albion class.
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{old}Aelie
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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PowerDrain DD in earth spec would be a great thing
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AquaBlaze
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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The Theurgist board has forever been filled with a 1001 innovative & unique ideas to address Theurgist problems. Maybe Mythic could take a look at them...to possibly fix this uber broken class, rather than build Mid/Hib expansion characters outta them? kplzthks.
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oxedus
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FIX THEURGIST! NUFF SAID!!!!!
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Vethvius
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Mythic does listen, they took all our nifty Theurgist improvement ideas and made the Animist.
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SkyGhost6
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Aelie: "PowerDrain DD in earth spec would be a great thing"
Careful what you ask for because animists might get it.
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Crandell
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bump
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{old}Jaavon
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bump for flames?
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Under_World
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/flame
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GoldManiac
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Ok, Monday coming up. Show us you don't hate theurgists.
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AquaBlaze
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I got 10 plat running that they will still hate Theurgists...come on...someone take me up! ^_^
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ibof
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/bump to the top )
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_Arandal_
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I had this long dissertation on what needs fixing and how it could be accomplished.
But then I realized that nobody reads past page 3 on these threads.
So, I will just make this post another tally on the count.
Fix Theurgists .... especially ice and earth.
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oxedus
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Go Theurgists!
BBBBBBBBBBBBBB
UUUUUUUUUUUUUU
MMMMMMMMMMMMMM
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
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Aaluria
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bump for a good cause
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motowntheta
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Please fix me my guild wont let me respec
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{old}Kaladim
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bump
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{old}Armisael_Ikari
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Ther's are the bastard son of albion and having speed and pbt on a 4th caster when thy should be available to the other 3 is what makes alb casters rather useless. If a wizard got pbt with earth and maybe speed in ice?
They need to be removed.
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Julie_DAoC
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*gets out the "Julie was here flag"* I will forward it on guys!
-Julie
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themurph
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Subject:
Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Theurgists need some loving. ESPECIALLY earth Theurgs.
Air Theurgist chain stunning pets, however, need a big fat huge GD nerf.
Thanks,
-----signature-----
Murphy was an optimist!
If authority was mass, stupidity would be gravity.
2 wrongs don't make a right...It usually takes 3 or 4
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Odinsdeciple
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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"but that cripples albion since we are the only source of PBT"
OMG, thats funny. I stopped reading after this in the 2nd sentance. How many pbts does hib get? Mid? Yeah, thats what I thought.
Go Go the only realm with 3 sources stealth. BS, go home, move on, nothing more to see here. Oops, looks like i'm 35 pages too late.
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5 years DAOC - canceled
8 months of WAR - canceled
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Seitz2
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"but that cripples albion since we are the only source of PBT"
"OMG, thats funny. I stopped reading after this in the 2nd sentance. How many pbts does hib get? Mid? Yeah, thats what I thought. "
Look at the theurgist pbt spelline. It basically has one useful spell, pbt. That's it. It's incredibly weak compared to suppresion and even weaker than the warden specline (and their not a pure caster).
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Big_Twinky
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Thanks for the show of life Julie!!
We will take anything at this point hehe.
Monday morning bump as well
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Crandell
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Wow it took 39 pages and almost 900 post for julie to say, that she has stuck a flag here, no offense julie but could you say a little more then just that, I mean we really would like to know what mythic thinks about theurgs and if they ever plan to fix us. I mean if not then i'll cancel and just move on, my earth theurg is my one and only toon, I don't want to make another and level them up, sorry but I liked the Idea behind theurgs and thats why i Play.
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{old}Jaavon
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omg. Do you really think that julie can do anything BESIDES stick a 'julie was here' flag on the post? She is not the all-powerful (all-beautiful, maybe, but definitely not all-powerful). Thanks for the recognition, julie
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GoldManiac
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I'm glad to see our thread was read. Does not mean they will listen to us, but at least it's the first step. Now have the people in charge of that thing look at some of the ideas in this thread and Abaddon's TL report and put them into the game.
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AquaBlaze
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Hey, I'll take a "Julie was here" flag anyway over the official Mythic cold-shoulder we were recieving.
"Air Theurgist chain stunning pets, however, need a big fat huge GD nerf."
Oh for the love of...let's not open that can of worms now, shall we? That's been whined and shot down far too many times in this thread already. Let's try to get Earth & Ice specs to par with SOMETHING (hello rock?) before we nerf the last viable spec line into oblivion.
Given the way Mythic has conducted themselves in their company's lifetime, we should at least keep that straight. 'Cause, if their actions have taught the Earth/Ice Theurgists anything, Mythic would just as easily nerf the *#@$ outta Air, and declare us "fixed".
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Azhrarn_Alb
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"Theurgists need some loving. ESPECIALLY earth Theurgs."
Earth is the 2nd worst specline for a theurgist. Ice is worse than Earth. The two of them together are dreadful and documented in the TL's report.
"Air Theurgist chain stunning pets, however, need a big fat huge GD nerf."
Yeah. There was a nerf in 1.52 to the 'chain stunning'. There would be no need for a nerf if Mythic would remedy by giving the air pet a 9 sec proc stun with 1 min immunity timer (to stun).
That's all the community has asked for with respect to the air 'chain stunning issue' and I can't see why this would be so tough to accomplish.
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Wumpusrat
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*shoves the thread back up to the top*
Up with you! Up! Up!
*crawls under her desk to hide with her earth and ice pets*
It's okay, guys, someday you'll be worth casting. Someday. I still lub you.
-the rat
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Crandell
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Hey funny this is that with just about 48k worth of rps, I'm the number one theurg on Guin and i'm an earth theurg, but thats also very said that it only takes 48k worth of rps to be number one.
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Azhrarn_Alb
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"*gets out the "Julie was here flag"* I will forward it on guys!"
Thank you! Please ask your development folks to read Abaddon's TL report carefully with respect to Ice and Earth.
Theurgists haven't had a 'balancing pass' since they were created.
Many other classes are on their 2nd (and 3rd).
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Crandell
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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bump!
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Crandell
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Bump!
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_Arandal_
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Much obliged julie.
If you need any specifics... feel free to pm almost any theurg on this thread for the issues (and some novel solutions).
and while I am at it...
Fix theurgists, please
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AquaBlaze
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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"It's okay, guys, someday you'll be worth casting."
Hey, they're worth it, specially now that Foundations is out. Ice pets keep my guests' drinks cool, and my Earth pet does all the slave labor around the place.
What, you think I'd wash my own dishes when I got these guys around? Time to make 'em work! Ho-ha!
...plus, it's also fun to have an Earth pet lie down in your neighbor's yard. Kinda a medieval version of the fake dog-doo trick.
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Crandell
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wow 900 post later and so far all we know is that there are no reasons why we shouldn't get any love, and that julie put a flag here.
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{old}fludane
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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well then we gotta continue another 900 posts or so till love is given.
this class needs fixes badly
BUMP
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Azhrarn_Alb
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Subject:
Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Abaddon keeps on writing good reports on how to fix Earth and Ice theurgist speclines.
Not a whole lot of fixing going on aside from making garden gnome earth pets at least usable RvR.
Ice pets are still broken though.
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GoldManiac
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Of course even if they did decide to help us, it's going to take another month or more before it goes onto test, and another month after that to go live. So coming up on the 2 year mark, and the theurgist will be a lesser class than it was at release.
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Big_Twinky
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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/em keeps his fingers crossed for the next patch notes
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oxedus
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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daily bump routine
Fix Theurgist Chant on!
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{old}jakedomino
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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We have posted all the facts. All Mythic has to do is to look at the class to see how bad off it is, as the data speaks for itself. Heck, anyone at Mythic honestly comparing the Runemaster Suppression spec line with the Theurg Earth spec line would have to be so embarassed by the glaring disparity as to do something right away.
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Uncreations
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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GTAOE for Earth Theurgist and PBAOE for Ice Theurgists.
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AquaBlaze
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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You begin to cast BUMP!
IGN has resisted your effect!
What the *#@$? D'oh.
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AquaBlaze
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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You begin to cast BUMP!
IGN has resisted your effect!
What the *#@$? D'oh.
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Crandell
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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GoldManic makes the best point of all, its almost the two year mark and really theurgs are worse off then what they were when they were first introduced. Pretty sad IMO, I mean some of the newer classes have gotten love and we still just continue to linger away.
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Crandell
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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back to the top with you
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Shadowmage
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Some love I would like to see is a speced Group Damage add in Earth and the same for the speed buff in Air. Make them both cost X3 times the base one of the same level so that you could buff all your group at once and save mana in the long run. As an earth Theurg I los emore power to buffing then to attacking the enemy.
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_Arandal_
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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shhh... don't make too much noise.
they might decide to nerf the one theurgist spell that hasn't yet been nerfed.
haste.
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Big_Twinky
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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I remember when my wife rolled her first theurgist back in nov 2001. She was soloing oj boulderlings and everyone was freaking out. They all went and rolled theurgists because they were uber. lol.
How times have changed.
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GoldManiac
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I remember soloing down in Avalon marsh when there were 5000 different spell damage types. Those mud golems were weak to my nukes, so I was mowing right through them. I can still do that against an undead mob. But not against a hib with 60% spirit resists. Oh, and at first, I had the crazy notion of going full ice spec. I'm glad I changed my mind by level 10 or I would have really gimped myself.
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Big_Twinky
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Hehe… I was going to be full earth spec…man, those little rock guys sure were strong.
I remember the last time I logged in my wife’s theurgists before she hit 50. I was in a diamond group and was basically buffing the pally (who was agro keeper) and ensuring that pbt was up.
I would then send 3-4 low level earth pets… hehe…its so damn funny to see those things run around in DF.
And then came my new spec line…comedy. At least I’ll be good at something (kinda)
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Wumpusrat
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Big Twinky,
Hehe, I remember that too, way back near the beginning. A friend and I were playing a pair of Theurgists, and people would watch us fight for a little while then ask us all sorts of questions about the Theurge before running off to make one of their own. After a week or so we'd started commenting on the HUGE swath of Theurgists we'd see running around. Everybody loved playing them because they were so oobah back then at PvE. Funny to look back at now.
-the rat
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CSteel
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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*bump* up ya go.
Not only for theurgists but for all classes that need fixing. Give animists some love, fix their pathing, and don't allow their pets to nuke through walls unless that was intended. I sure hope a theurgist's ice pet doesn't nuke through walls. Ohh and make ground targetting more user friendly by letting us USE THE MOUSE to target the ground.
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Crandell
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I would love to see them fix the pathing on our pets, I mean just think that if you casted an earth pet it would actually get to the target and hit it 3 times before dying, my how that would be so nice.
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Crandell
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Back to the top you go!~
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Balthar_IV
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Theurgists need some loving!
Give me a reason to spec to 6 sec pbt in RVR. If i do now, i have no offensive capabilities... pets are still worthless
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elezarICE
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Whats a theurgist?
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-GReaper-
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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An Earth Theurgist goes out to RvR...
20:35 <vuK> playing my little warrior
20:36 <vuK> i think ALBS(!!) had 6 sec pbt
What did this Earth Theurgist do?
- Hit sprint
- Run
- Haste debuff the occasional Mid
- Root someone if he wasn't being attacked
I know because I am this gimped Earth Theurgist.
Heres another bump so we actually get to do something in RvR.
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{old}acasualsinner
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Give earth theurgists two bolts. One baseline, one spec. Have both bolts be less powerful then the wizard's bolts, somewhere around shaman damage level and earth theurgists will be able to do something other then stand there.
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Balthar_IV
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I would love for the earth line to get a PbAoE or some DoT... or something that allows us to tap power since we need it to keep 6 sec pbt going....
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Crandell
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Hey come on now, just get serenity 5 then all the power is yours and all you have to do is waste how many skill points.
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{old}jakedomino
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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"What's a theurgist?"
In the Mythic language, theurgist means "megagimped caster."
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-GReaper-
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Theurgists deserve more attention than page 2, don't you think?
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AquaBlaze
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Anyone know where Mythic's HQ is? My Earth Theurgist foot has a late appointment with the devs' asses. ^_^
Oh, night BUMPage.
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Crandell
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Well soon enough hopefully we might see some feed back to Abaddons report, keep an eye out for it on the Theurgist board and maybe just maybe we shall see what mythic truely thinks about theurgs.
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AquaBlaze
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Official Theurgist Report (1.63 Revision) from Mythic:
Could you bend over a little bit MORE for the Hibs/Mids? Our new subscribers need RPs. Thanks!
AHA! Thought so. :P
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oxedus
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theurgists.... the forgotten class
will we evcr get a fix
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ibof
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/bump to the top.
Theurgs need some love )
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ibof
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/bump to the top.
Theurgs need some love! )
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{old}Jaavon
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bump to the top ... next to the nerf wind post.
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{old}fludane
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we need more than love :P
bring back to fun to playing theurgist.
ice and earth line desperately need help.
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ShivasRegal
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bump
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GoldManiac
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Abaddon actually tried explaining the reasoning to the nerf yellers. That thread (as all air pet threads do) had begun to degrade into a flame fest already. I'd take a 10 second stun proc on a immunity timer over chain stunning. Then I'd only need to cast 1 pet, and all the morons would shut up.
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Crandell
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woohoo Come on a thousand post, woohoo and still nothing from mythic, of course I understand they are trying to fix all the houseing issues, just think if they put half the effort they are putting into houses into the theurgs, man we would be some happy players
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Big_Twinky
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Bumpidy boo
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{old}Jaavon
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and you'd still be doing it slower and at a higher power cost than any other stun in the game.
bump.
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{old}NevermoreRaven
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"still nothing from mythic"
<points to page 36>
"*gets out the "Julie was here flag"* I will forward it on guys!
-Julie"
Its not a fix, an announcement or anything agreeing that we've been overlooked. It is "something" though, not "nothing."
Edit: Good lord this thread is long... she posted on page 36, not page 35.
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Azhrarn_Alb
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"Abaddon actually tried explaining the reasoning to the nerf yellers. That thread (as all air pet threads do) had begun to degrade into a flame fest already. I'd take a 10 second stun proc on a immunity timer over chain stunning. Then I'd only need to cast 1 pet, and all the morons would shut up."
Yeah. A lot of the old Midgard players are still sore about the immunity timer placed on their AoE stun.
The 10 second proc on an immunity timer seems the best way to calm down the nerfcriers. If this happens, though, I'd like to see the air pets proc like they did pre 1.52 (or better).
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themurph
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Subject:
Theurgists: They need some loving..
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/bump for Theurgist love
also
/bump for nerfing air theurgs chain stunning pets
also
/bump for increasing one's post count by 1
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{old}NevermoreRaven
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<coughs and points to the first sticky thread in the "Developer's Round Table">
Be careful or you might end up on vacation.
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{old}Aelie
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Buuuuuuump
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Hyperion191
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will this thread reach 1k posts ?!
BUMP
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{old}Jaavon
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hope so
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AquaBlaze
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"of course I understand they are trying to fix all the houseing issues, just think if they put half the effort they are putting into houses into the theurgs, man we would be some happy players"
I think Theurgists being "happy players" is against Mythic's TOS. :P
And, about the "adding to post count" sticky, that's certainly going to suck for anyone who needs to use a 1 concerning a mathematical equasion. Oh well, they gotta do what they gotta do, I guess. :/
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AquaBlaze
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"also
/bump for nerfing air theurgs chain stunning pets"
also
Could you go over to the appropriate Thread for flaming your opinions without evidence? Thanks. We here at this thread are tired of having to keep squashing this whine every other day.
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{old}muduki1
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there's no need to fear /bump is here
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AquaBlaze
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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/bump
/bump
/bump
/nerf
SH*T! Wrong button!
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Caepinus
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up
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_Arandal_
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Hey...
did anyone hear the one about the earth therugist who went to his frontier to RvR?
neither did I...
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Serkesh
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Uh actually i met him on bors.
My lvl 34 Enchanter friend and me (32 at that time) killed him at amg.
the poor biatch was earth specced i guess cause his nuke hardly tickled
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oxedus
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Bbbbbb bbbb UMPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP!!!!
/bump
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{old}auchter
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Got to give them something.
I mean, as it stands adding a wet towel will double their damage output.
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Big_Twinky
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Back to page 1 you go!
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{old}jakedomino
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Make theurgists worth playing as a class!
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ibof
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/bump
Theurgs need some love but ... sigh
/rebump!
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{old}Tonn_DAoC
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/bump. guildie respecced his theurg to full earth because his wife had a child a month ago, and he needs to be afk a lot. such a shame that a spec line's only real use is the ability to go afk for long periods of time.
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Big_Twinky
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Do they still make threads official when they hit 1000 posts?
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{old}jakedomino
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I don't think so.
Bump for love for the worst caster class in the game.
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Crandell
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Back to page one
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{old}Aelie
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""also
/bump for nerfing air theurgs chain stunning pets"
also
Could you go over to the appropriate Thread for flaming your opinions without evidence? Thanks. We here at this thread are tired of having to keep squashing this whine every other day. "
Ok, but do you know that after 5 pets and 2 blasts we are oom?
Do you know that our blasts are resisted at about 50% 60%.
That the instadebuff doesn't interrupt any more.
That nearsight on mezzers, healers or casters is much better than using four pets (compare the power cost !!)
That we are often the main mezzer and speeder in normal groups...
And for you own culture : the stun of the air pets has already been nerfed
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{old}Jaavon
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They won't give us an official thread ... just lock this one.
only things relating to midgard: skalds, cc, healers, ra's, midgard in general ... etc ... get official threads. Every so often you get a bard official thread to.
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Njorl
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Up to the top with ye!
Njorl
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Big_Twinky
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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I saved you
From being on page two
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Azhrarn_Alb
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Mythic feedback later this week will determine if there is any point in remaining spec'd in Ice and Earth lines.
Either way, y'all will know what Mythic thinks; it'll make the choice all the easier.
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Crandell
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I am very curious as stated before to see what the feedback form is going to look like. I've read some of the other feed back to other team leads and it looks like basically they say, "NO", "we are looking into it", or "This is an intersting point and will look into it", at this point I will take anything since we really haven't heard much on the subject of theurgs for a long time. Clearly they realize they have hurt us with indirect nerfs to pbt, attack speed debuff, and frankly earth theurgs can't take anymore nerfs of any kinda and really need some serious love.
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{old}BlazeAqua
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"Clearly they realize they have hurt us with indirect nerfs to pbt, attack speed debuff, and frankly earth theurgs can't take anymore nerfs of any kinda and really need some serious love."
Uh...clearly they don't...otherwise, they wouldn't have nerfed PBT again recently.
Mythic: Oh come on...can I put in one more etty bitty nerf...please? Won't hurt TOO bad...
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{old}Jaavon
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mmm ... aquablaze get banned?
page 1.
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ibof
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/rebump to the first!
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Crandell
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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bump
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motowntheta
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Subject:
Theurgists: They need some loving..
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There once was an earth theurgist from ludlow,
Who's thought his spec didn't blow,
He went rvr,
But didn't get far,
So he ended up bumping this thread.
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oxedus
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Mythic statement:
It is now official that the established class, Theurgist, is now known as Theurgimped.
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{old}fludane
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I could not stop wondering whether mythic would make theurgist ice line any unique, at least to be able to differentiate theurgists or emphasized the original intention (if any) to make theurgists a siege master...
the same goes for earth, if it really were meant to be a defensive approach line, how defensive is earth if it only has pbt (nerfed one) as a strong tool... anyhow earth line still needs a more reliable offensive damage dealing spell to help survivability no matter what or no matter how it was meant for a defense line, an offense spell is needed for defensive reasons.
excuse me it the post does not make much sense. anyways...... BUMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Help theurgists! Or is it "theurgimped" like Oxedus said bwahahahahahahaa
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Big_Twinky
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Maybe we are going about it all the wrong way.
Maybe instead of bumping this one single thread, we should each be making seperate threads on the boards. Its easy for them to disregard one big thread, its a little harder when 70% of the threads on the main page are asking to fix theurgists.
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Crandell
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Big, Yeah I thought about that also but it would upset people if all the angry theurgs just made their own thread, I think by keeping this one alive and well inviting anyone to come and argue why we don't need love, we have to be noticed.
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Big_Twinky
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Ah well, then I guess we'll just stick with the regular
/bump!
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{old}Jaavon
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can't find this thread anywhere ... bump
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{old}Itsallaboutyou
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/bump
The biggest reason I haven't been interested in playing much RVR is because it's not fun to gain 1000 pts by dieing over and over again.
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Big_Twinky
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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A post on the Igraine board was locked because it went over 1000 posts. Apparently, posts over 1000 can cause IGN board slow downs. So we have but a few replies in this one left before we must start a new one.
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supax
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See, look how powerful theurgists are, they can bring down IGN!
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Tritone_33
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Lovin`? Oh yes, they need lovin` !!
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{old}NevermoreRaven
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This thread seems to be stalling... will it even last to 1000?
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{old}Jaavon
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...
odd that there are more posts in this thread than active theurgists, assuming the thread gets to 1000.
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supax
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You can do it!
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_Arandal_
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Grandpa? What's an Ice Theurgist?
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{old}muduki1
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only 9 more bumps till 1000 post!
/bump
mud
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{old}Jaavon
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oro?
1000 posts of love?
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Faramire
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Suck it up Princess
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{old}Neslyn
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I'm looking forward to Mythic's reply to the theurgist TL. Even if the reply is "you guys are fine", at least I know I won't need to worry about playing my theurgist any more. At least he can spellcraft stuff for my sorcerer
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GiantAshSnake
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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/bump
almost to locked status. Bet we get a another post to 1000 before we get an answer too....
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AquaBlaze
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Jaavon: Yup...still don't know why, but oh well. I'm back, I'm miffed, and I've come to say...
WHERE'S MY DAMN CLASS FIX?
Oh yea...and 4 digit post count, here we come!
"Maybe instead of bumping this one single thread, we should each be making seperate threads on the boards. Its easy for them to disregard one big thread, its a little harder when 70% of the threads on the main page are asking to fix theurgists."
<cackles at the idea> Naw...still wouldn't get Mythic to do squat, but it would cheeze IGN off a great deal. Sure, it would be funny...but if the gamemaker can neglect their most broken class for 2 years, what makes you think a board takeover would make THEM do anything?
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quyesial
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Ph33r the IGN-spamming theurg masses!!
Fix the earth and ice lines please. Make the wind mez the same range as EVERY other castable mez in the game please....
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{old}Jaavon
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I'd be happy if they would just implement spellcrafted bikini's.
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Crandell
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Well nearing a 1000 post for theurg love and really we haven't even heard from one person on wearther not we have a good case. Come on mythic lets see what you goT
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Runvus-Polat
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Bump for the theurgs, and 1000!
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{old}Jaavon
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cheers!
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D.M.P.
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Bumped to page 1 again.
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djbooger
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bump!
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Rhyolt
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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/Bump
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CSteel
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This thread has exceed 1000 posts. Time to lock it. Oh and BTW theurgists and animists need some fixin'.
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Deja.vu
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I think they should just impliment perminate pets to go along with our teporary pets. Put the perminte pets 1 level higher than the summon pets and make it so if you spec for it you can have multiple perminate pets out at once.
also bosst the nuking power on the ice pet and give the earth pets a huge + aginst doors and seige equipment. "Nerf" the air pets so that they can only stun some one once but make that stun 9-10 seconds!
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Nullzer0
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Theurgist need some love. There earth and ice lines need some new spells and fixing of old spells.
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daryen
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ibtl
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_Arandal_
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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comon Mythic... you can do it!
its fixin' time for the ole' theurgists!
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Crandell
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Just wanted to say that it has been fun getting this thread up to a thousand and I'll gladly make another thread and another thread and another thread until at least someone realizes and fixes the theurg issues. I hope everyone will continue to voice their concerns and suggestions, please keep the fight up.
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Sarumz
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Whoot whooot haha 1000+ Looking forward to hearing Mythics feedback Monday that we are working as intended so I can move on to playing an alt 1005 of the time. Cheers to all who came here to support Theurgys.
Sarumz 50 Theurgist <DoA> Lancelot
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oxedus
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Subject:
Theurgists: They need some loving..
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tl report i believe suggested gtaoe to be cold based.... i wonder if ice line needs another utility spell or even damage dealing spell
i also kept wondering what kind of offensive spell could be given to earth line. earth needs damage dealing spell badly
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luelle
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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/bump
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{old}Aelie
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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/buuuuuuuump ^^
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_Arandal_
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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The problem is, all anyone can really say anymore is "bump" because we have had the same issues forever, and they have been exhaustively delineated in many threads on many boards.
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Faramire
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Wow, over 1k posts, firt i have seen ever.
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AquaBlaze
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Damn...wish I was the 1k poster now. :P Certainly sucks that this thread will be locked up though...what is this, the 3rd incarnation of a Theurgist love thread? That's nearly 3000+ posts?
For the love of beans, WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING MYTHIC?
<edit> Runvus-Polat, you son of a *%@#%! I wanted the 1k post! Me! RAAAA! <beats the crap outta poster>
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Crandell
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Subject:
Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Well I for one will give a short recap and sum up exactly what this thread has stated
1. Well after about 1000 or so post the only thing people can say that theurgs have is the mythical chain stunning air pets, but the lack of logs and the fact that all the theurgs have stated this is impossible due to patches in the past the only valid agurement has been shot down over and over.
2. Wind spec theurgs are working almost good enough to play, really all we would like to see is the mez range increased to match our counterparts in other realms.
3. Pets being a whole issue in themselves we have had many suggestions, a few being
a. Fixed power cost for pets.
b. Higher pets that do more damage.
c. Pets that hurt just keep doors and equipement.
d. Pets that only could be cast one at a time but do lots of damage.
But it all comes down to we would like to see something done with pets, since pets are the only real thing we have anymore that sets us from the other casters. Also fix the pathing issues with pets.
4. Ice spec theurgs are rare, reason being, there is no reason to go ice, its a lousy copycat spec and if you want just go wind and get better spells. Ice drains your power so fast and the ice pets are worthless. Ice is just a terrible out and out spec.
5. Earth spec is albion's only spec for pbt, but it offers no reason to take it high enough to get the 8 or 6 second pbt. Earth pets again are power hungry and hit for hardly anything. The earth line has no damage dealing spell and pbt has been indiriectly nerfed that its really not even worth specing to get anymore. Power is a huge issue with earth line since you are basically a Bubble blowing buff bot. Earth line truely is one of the worst lines out there and its ashame since it has pbt. Earth line needs seious help.
Actually in conclusion just go read the Team Lead report by Abaddon, he has done a great job over and over and over but for some reason has been ignored for a long time. Theurgists need help.
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Demonic_Apparition
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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yaya bumps
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ibof
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/buuuuuuuuuuump
Theurgs need some love sigh...
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{old}bmw745li
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Honestly i can careless about theurgists cause when i get stunned 20 times in one fight i dont see why exactly that class needs anything else sorry but i dont.
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AquaBlaze
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"Honestly i can careless about theurgists cause when i get stunned 20 times in one fight i dont see why exactly that class needs anything else sorry but i dont."
I see we also don't feel sorry for the butchering of the English language too. Use some grammar if you want to be taken seriously! A comma or two, please! YEESH!
Now...onto your "claim".
1.) In order to be "stunned 20 times in one fight", the Theurgist probably had 6-8 pets on you = 90-100% of their power. Hell, you didn't even say if you died or not, but I'll assume you did. (You could have just as easily not died. Air pets hit like a wet towel. You could be posting here because your FotM char was held up a few seconds from butchering everyone.) This Theurgist was focusing ALL their attention & power ON JUST YOU. Are you seriously suggesting that a caster, who blows their entire load on a class, SHOULDN'T kill their target? Cry more n00b.
2.) Any other casting class could've killed you in less time using less power. Cry more n00b.
3.) Where are your logs? Folklore is all abound, but that doesn't make for evidence. Idjits, PLEASE...bring PROOF that you got owned by the crappiest class in the game, and THEN we'll argue about it. Of course...would you really want people to know that you were owned by a Theurgist? HA!
And until you do bring in some proof...cry more n00b.
4.) Not EVERY THEURGIST IS WIND! This BS of "power chainstunning" doesn't make for "proof" that Earth & Ice spec lines are just fine! Plus, anyone who says Earth & Ice DON'T need help needs to seek help immediately. They are the 1st and 2nd crappiest spec lines in the game for a reason. In the end, we're aiming to get them fixed plus the fixes the Wind line has needed for so long as well.
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{old}Greaves_Merlin
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Subject:
Theurgists: They need some loving..
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a theurg on the euro servers was ice all the way to rr10 and still is. so i fail to see what your crying about.
if the spec/class is as shite as you lot claim, i doubt he would have kept the spec without respeccing.
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{old}Neslyn
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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"4.) Not EVERY THEURGIST IS WIND!"
Actually, heh, I think they are now.
"a theurg on the euro servers was ice all the way to rr10 and still is. so i fail to see what your crying about."
Mythic's own numbers confirm that less than 5% of all theurgists spec to a high level in ice. Actually, I think 5% was Abaddon's guess, and the actual number was more like 2%.
"if the spec/class is as shite as you lot claim, i doubt he would have kept the spec without respeccing."
Maybe he's assuming at some point Mythic has to do something for it. And of course, one guy in Europe speccing ice obviously means there's nothing wrong with the line.
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Crandell
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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OH well hey then that means every class is fine because one person got to RR10, no I really don't see that happening.
Now lets go over this again
1. Air pets can't chain stun, read the patch notes, it can't happen, sorry, your wrong.
2. Ice spec line and earth spec line are the worst two spec lines in the game, and the fact that pbt is in the worst means that albion as a whole realm has to suffer because really no one wants to be an earth theurg.
Now also lets look at one more thing
1 Guinorion MorningStar Theurgist 50 6,771,726 Merlin
2 Woeful Chinchillasilver Theurgist 50 6,572,473 Galahad
3 Hippoeater Alizee Theurgist 50 4,272,169 Galahad
4 Endo Eolus Theurgist 50 4,227,827 Palomides
5 Atomical Sol Theurgist 50 4,191,638 Tristan
6 Azryel Skyes Theurgist 50 3,874,012 Palomides
7 Cardoon Cycloneus Theurgist 50 3,720,682 Guinevere
8 Halcyone Darays Theurgist 50 3,671,769 Guinevere
9 Wis GotusBodyguard Theurgist 50 3,611,052 Merlin
10 Magico Destructo Theurgist 50 3,205,177 Merlin
Thats the top ten theurgs pulled from Camelotseer, now sure the info might be a bit wrong but if we see the first two theurgs ahve 6 million, not yet to RR10 but they are close and should be given much props for getting that many as a theurg. But if you look the numbers go from 6 mil to 3 mil in the top ten, thats a pretty big jump in numbers, meaning that not many people are playing theurgs.
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sanoshi
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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5.9 million is RR10
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Crandell
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Oh thats right it is, i'm sorry, so wow out of all the servers only two theurgs have gotten to rr10, I guess thats alright i'm willing to put some money that neither of those two are earth spec or ice spec, and if they are they didn't earn the majority of their points on that spec. The only way I can earn some good points is if I get with a great group. And seeing that i'm an earth theurg not many really want me in their group.
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ibof
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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/bump to the top
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{old}NevermoreRaven
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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No reason... other than to get one last post in before they lock our lovely theurg love thread.
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AquaBlaze
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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"a theurg on the euro servers was ice all the way to rr10 and still is. so i fail to see what your crying about."
Another great folk lore tale. Have you heard about the flying Kobold who shoots fireballs out his @$$? I belive this bull**** "proof" has as much merit as the last Elvis or Bigfoot story you ever read.
Again, logs? Tales from a friend of a friend's second aunt's cousin's mother's brother's former roomate doesn't mean JACK.
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Silverleaf90
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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Theurgist do need some loving. I'm tired of being the buff bot and the bubble boy. Of course the last one is now reduced. Hmmmm need a sign. Will respec for diamond seals. Wonder if I can class change
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ibof
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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/bumpppppaaaa
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motowntheta
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Aqua he's talking about Outlaw RR10 Ice Theug on Excalbibur.... he may not be all ice but he is definatley mainly ice
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Billil
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Theurgists: They need some loving..
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One RR10 theurgist who is mainly ice does not make that line viable. I could spec an infiltrator with no trained stealth and as long as I had a good core group of friends to play with and lots and lots of time I could get him to RR10. That doesn’t mean that infiltrators without trained stealth are uber.
A RR10 theurgist who is mainly ice only proves that this guy has a LOT of time on his hands and is essentially a masochist
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