Whiplashz
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Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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They drooping the silence off the cloak and adding fury in essence. I personally think that it will be near impossible to beat certain casters now as a tank. IMO the silence shouldn't be changed. Warlocks will once again rule the world.
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Mezzedbyabear
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Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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A good lock will cure silence in about 1 second. Can't cure your opponent having super high magic resists for 20 seconds. If anything I'd say this change will make it harder for good locks to beat hybrid tanks.
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carnesaur
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Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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just make healer or caster ml10 cloak a cure silence /use
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Mezzedbyabear
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Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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Nah cause then you'd have to temp it in even if the utility sucked. I know a profanity ton of albs temp the silence cloak just for an I win button against any caster. Seems far too cheesy for me. The only tank I have that cloak on is my warrior and that's just because it happened to have stats I needed. I never use it anyways cause I'm always using celerity charges.
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Yackety_Yack
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Subject:
Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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Silence is way too OP imho, a single Silence wasn't too bad, but when you're being chain Silenced it really sucked.
The Pictish weapons were really too OP, the ML10 cloaks were way too OP when used in groupings.
If they had immunities after the first use, i wouldn't have a problem with either of them.
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adonix
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Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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i dislike this.
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W_A_V_E_N
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Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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Keep the Silence, make it purgable... *Fixed
Taking it away only benefits casters 1v1 now.
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carnesaur
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Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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O_o wtf? The stats arent half that bad on the tank one. the silence just seals the deal.
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ragnok321
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Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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W_A_V_E_N posted:
Keep the Silence, make it purgable... *Fixed
Taking it away only benefits casters 1v1 now.
this and it makes my bm super sad first banelord nerf and now this =(
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ragnok321
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Subject:
Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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Mezzedbyabear posted:
A good lock will cure silence in about 1 second. Can't cure your opponent having super high magic resists for 20 seconds. If anything I'd say this change will make it harder for good locks to beat hybrid tanks.
luls how do u cure silence in one sec... and how did how these changes go in and the lock uninterpretable not get nerfed ><
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ricjeid
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Subject:
Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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Dislike - should stay the same as it is now. It's the only effective counter that a tank (or a group, apart from zephyr) can use for abilities like MoC and Phaseshift. It only lasts 10 seconds every 15 minutes; it can be cured easily; most people use it almost randomly as an interrupt anyway, rather than as a way to prevent people using abilities. It's always been silly that certain classes (healers, bards, archers, minstrels, theurgs etc.) are able to fingerroll abilities and have a get-out-of-jail-free card in any situation, no matter how poorly they play.
Being able to purge it would make it worthless tbh; would make it an even weaker ability than say having a minstrel insta-stun on a 15 minute reuse.
And the replacement is more OP if anything. Free Empty Mind V? My zerker will be able to have 80% effective spell resists now, lol.
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Vyxar
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Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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It's a very long overdue and good change.
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Vyxar
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Subject:
Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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ricjeid posted:
And the replacement is more OP if anything. Free Empty Mind V? My zerker will be able to have 80% effective spell resists now, lol.
Even if that's true it's better mechanics. Think about fury... People don't feel like the toon they are playing is totally shut down. Silence just causes so much grief on the small scale that even if it's ok on the bigger scale it had to go. Particularly after they nerfed the 5 seconds of pictish fumble.
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jojobonojo
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Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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Give it back jerks.
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Congolo_Europe
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Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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Honestly i dont care, was good without silence back then.
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ricjeid
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Subject:
Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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Vyxar posted:
ricjeid posted:
And the replacement is more OP if anything. Free Empty Mind V? My zerker will be able to have 80% effective spell resists now, lol.
Even if that's true it's better mechanics. Think about fury... People don't feel like the toon they are playing is totally shut down. Silence just causes so much grief on the small scale that even if it's ok on the bigger scale it had to go. Particularly after they nerfed the 5 seconds of pictish fumble.
It's really not much different than other abilities like Zephyr or Theurg RR5 or insta stun/mez or MoC that can be dumped and used to grief/shut people down in small scale situations. Sadly, it's actually one of the few counters to those sorts of abilities. If anything it's less OP than Zephyr since silence can at least be cured, you can use items, and/or you often have the chance to run the other way for 10 seconds when it's used against you.
Silence provides a counterpart to nullify casters in a similar way to how bodyguard and grapple nullify tanks (also abilities that can't be purged).
An immunity timer for it (same as nearsight, grapple, stun etc.) would be reasonable though.
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Whiplashz
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Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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Mezzedbyabear posted:
Nah cause then you'd have to temp it in even if the utility sucked. I know a profanity ton of albs temp the silence cloak just for an I win button against any caster. Seems far too cheesy for me. The only tank I have that cloak on is my warrior and that's just because it happened to have stats I needed. I never use it anyways cause I'm always using celerity charges.
Somebody playing a warlock should talk about I win bottons. So a tank approaches warlock. They interrupt then warlock starts using uninterurputable life taps. Then tank slams or stuns. Warlock purges chamber dump and continues to uninterurputable cast. Use power charge if needed. Rinse repeat.
I just saying you can run thru and stuff like that but there is no reason a tank should die to caster who they are beating on.
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wiciri
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Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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Was stupid design that you couldn't purge it. Don't really care over all, but more likely to benefit from this change since I was more likely to be silenced myself than actually have someone in group with it.
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magickaa
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Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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taking away silence is profanity point blank!
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Vyxar
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Subject:
Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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I understand what you are saying in terms of it's potential/power but to be clear ML10 cloak is not an ability. It's a /use.
Casters don't really get weapon procs and so in general gear based stuff is already slanted against them.
The closest /use thing casters have had zo which affects everyone and got nerfed too.
ofc there was briefly the pictish thing which also nerfed.
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Kahzee
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Subject:
Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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Vyxar posted:
I understand what you are saying in terms of it's potential/power but to be clear ML10 cloak is not an ability. It's a /use.
Casters don't really get weapon procs and so in general gear based stuff is already slanted against them.
The closest /use thing casters have had zo which affects everyone and got nerfed too.
ofc there was briefly the pictish thing which also nerfed.
the problem is daoc is very catered to casters already
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dryedmeats
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Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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They didint remove be cause of casters , they did it because douchers using it to homo down stealthers without any fear of reprisal or vanish.
So yeah they dont need it.
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Tseliot_Kay
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Subject:
Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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Kahzee posted:
Vyxar posted:
I understand what you are saying in terms of it's potential/power but to be clear ML10 cloak is not an ability. It's a /use.
Casters don't really get weapon procs and so in general gear based stuff is already slanted against them.
The closest /use thing casters have had zo which affects everyone and got nerfed too.
ofc there was briefly the pictish thing which also nerfed.
the problem is daoc WAS very catered to casters already
Fixed that for you. If this were 2004 I would agree with you but the buffs melee classes have gotten in the meantime far outweigh anything casters have gotten for a LONG time.
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jojobonojo
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Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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dryedmeats posted:
They didint remove be cause of casters , they did it because douchers using it to homo down stealthers without any fear of reprisal or vanish.
So yeah they dont need it.
Speaking of homo.
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Vyxar
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Subject:
Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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Kahzee posted:
Vyxar posted:
I understand what you are saying in terms of it's potential/power but to be clear ML10 cloak is not an ability. It's a /use.
Casters don't really get weapon procs and so in general gear based stuff is already slanted against them.
The closest /use thing casters have had zo which affects everyone and got nerfed too.
ofc there was briefly the pictish thing which also nerfed.
the problem is daoc is very catered to casters already
Not really. Tanks are usually better head to head. So much so that the game ends up getting kinda messed up in fact because casters are so incredibly weak solo.
Full groups do better with casters because of the population and the terrain. You put 2 groups out where you have even numbers and some kind of neutral terrain and tanks are going to do extremely well in general.
Ability wise though the biggest thing would be if they got rid of/modified speedwarp mechanics. So of all the things in the patch the mentalists getting free speedwarp makes me the saddest because it probably means they aren't even considering changing them. Between those and everything being so centered around towers/keeps (guards) or having to deal with pets or weird terrain advantages like water that you can't find reliable action as a tank group so people are more inclined to run (and get better results) with casters.
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Sniperrusx
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Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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If you think this was a positive change you must be bad, like really bad.
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Dignify
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Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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Sniperrusx posted:
If you think this was a positive change you must be bad, like really bad.
Hrmm, seems like quite a leap from point A to point B...
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ragnok321
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Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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tank trains were way more fun
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larael
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Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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I personally dislike this change because the balance pendulum has swung too far towards casters over the last few (well 5) years.
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carnesaur
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Subject:
Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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It wasn't over powered. if you got silenced, you kited for 5 seconds. until it was down
It wasn't imbalanced either. it was a good counter to classes that had shutdown abilities.
if a scout was going to zephyr me and run, id drop combat silence him then finish him
in groups if we went for a theurg, i'd silence it while running to it to stop its rr5 from stopping me
if clumsy was going to rr5 and call for help, id silence him and drop his ass before anyone could come
if i was solo and was fighting a cleric a minst and a caster, i could use it on the cleric to stop it from instancing it self back to health.
if i fought a skald valk duo and the skald gets healed, id silence the valk to give me a few more seconds
if the valk died, id silence the skald before he could sos and wilson.
it was the perfect ability to counter, counter-attacks.
tell me how any of those above scenarios seem unfair.
In every one of those, I'm stopping some BS happening to me by giving BS first.
except you only get 1 per toon every 15 mins, as opposed to some classes whos cheese tricks number in the 2s,3s, or sometimes 4s.
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Mooshaka
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Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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great change. silence was a crutch for bad players anyways.
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Sniperrusx
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Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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Mooshaka posted:
Most bad people used silence as a crutch
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Gurrier
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Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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Gah no more silence every time item use timer resets on skald 
Not happy about it but overall a very very good patch
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Mooshaka
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Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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Gurrier posted:
Gah no more silence every time item use timer resets on skald
Not happy about it but overall a very very good patch
i dont like it since it messes up my two favorite visi classes (minstrel/valk), but i tend to not have a myopic view of this game and agree that it was long overdue.
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Gurrier
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Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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Lean towards casters is getting abit silly now though especially mentalists.
Menta and bard duo's are going to me supernasty even worse that eld+bard
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-DT
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Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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Silence is one of those things that should've never been added to the game imo, but since they did, leave it alone as is imo.
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SaiyanOfDarkness
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Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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Now if they would only fix archer shear cloak.. so it would actually remove buffs from bots conc window instead of bugging out and keep removing pot/field buffs.
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Whiplashz
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Subject:
Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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Kahzee posted:
Vyxar posted:
I understand what you are saying in terms of it's potential/power but to be clear ML10 cloak is not an ability. It's a /use.
Casters don't really get weapon procs and so in general gear based stuff is already slanted against them.
The closest /use thing casters have had zo which affects everyone and got nerfed too.
ofc there was briefly the pictish thing which also nerfed.
the problem is daoc is very catered to casters already
I dislike you, but I agree with this statement. Between all the cc dps and abilities like speed warp casters have such an upper hand in the game now a days.
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Dogunugh
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Subject:
Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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carnesaur posted:
It wasn't over powered. if you got silenced, you kited for 5 seconds. until it was down
It wasn't imbalanced either. it was a good counter to classes that had shutdown abilities.
if a scout was going to zephyr me and run, id drop combat silence him then finish him
in groups if we went for a theurg, i'd silence it while running to it to stop its rr5 from stopping me
if clumsy was going to rr5 and call for help, id silence him and drop his ass before anyone could come
if i was solo and was fighting a cleric a minst and a caster, i could use it on the cleric to stop it from instancing it self back to health.
if i fought a skald valk duo and the skald gets healed, id silence the valk to give me a few more seconds
if the valk died, id silence the skald before he could sos and wilson.
it was the perfect ability to counter, counter-attacks.
tell me how any of those above scenarios seem unfair.
In every one of those, I'm stopping some BS happening to me by giving BS first.
except you only get 1 per toon every 15 mins, as opposed to some classes whos cheese tricks number in the 2s,3s, or sometimes 4s.
Yeah, I don't get how anyone can say this ability is OP. Alter it somehow, don't completely remove it, imo... it's not such an "I win" ability (at least compared to some other abilities) that it needs to be completely removed. I just don't get the point, I guess...it's a single target, RUT 15 min, and lasts what, 5 seconds? Is it really THAT overpowered? I have a feeling that everyone who is for this change are the ones who don't ever use silence.
How about this for a GD fix - don't make the cloak buggable so you can equip it without all of the ml10 items on. That would change quite a few templates I would think.
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Grimreeperx
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Subject:
Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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Kahzee posted:
Vyxar posted:
I understand what you are saying in terms of it's potential/power but to be clear ML10 cloak is not an ability. It's a /use.
Casters don't really get weapon procs and so in general gear based stuff is already slanted against them.
The closest /use thing casters have had zo which affects everyone and got nerfed too.
ofc there was briefly the pictish thing which also nerfed.
the problem is daoc is very catered to casters already
Yes but they pay the price by falling apart like soft bread. I like this change Kahzee, I think you can take a guess at why, ahem, mainly because savages are gay
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ArcApt
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Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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Vyxar posted:
Not really. Tanks are usually better head to head. So much so that the game ends up getting kinda messed up in fact because casters are so incredibly weak solo.
Full groups do better with casters because of the population and the terrain. You put 2 groups out where you have even numbers and some kind of neutral terrain and tanks are going to do extremely well in general.
Ability wise though the biggest thing would be if they got rid of/modified speedwarp mechanics. So of all the things in the patch the mentalists getting free speedwarp makes me the saddest because it probably means they aren't even considering changing them. Between those and everything being so centered around towers/keeps (guards) or having to deal with pets or weird terrain advantages like water that you can't find reliable action as a tank group so people are more inclined to run (and get better results) with casters.
I never really thought of it that way but i guess SWs do in fact hinder melees more, though it would remove the only defence groups have against masses. Especially since NF's flat highways tend to make zergs pursue for a longer time.
I can but disagree on your idea of caster/melee balance though, as far as group dynamics are concerned: group melee dps tends to be weak overall, easily negated by 25% duration CC/stat debuffs at that and finally supports overwhelmed by pets if there aren't enough allied casters to clear them out. Moreover, the neutral terrain you're talking about can't be NF's high-visibility highways anymore than water.
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Mezzedbyabear
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Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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Whiplashz posted:
Mezzedbyabear posted:
Nah cause then you'd have to temp it in even if the utility sucked. I know a profanity ton of albs temp the silence cloak just for an I win button against any caster. Seems far too cheesy for me. The only tank I have that cloak on is my warrior and that's just because it happened to have stats I needed. I never use it anyways cause I'm always using celerity charges.
Somebody playing a warlock should talk about I win bottons. So a tank approaches warlock. They interrupt then warlock starts using uninterurputable life taps. Then tank slams or stuns. Warlock purges chamber dump and continues to uninterurputable cast. Use power charge if needed. Rinse repeat.
I just saying you can run thru and stuff like that but there is no reason a tank should die to caster who they are beating on.
I agree. I have no problem beating locks on my hero, vamp, arms, reaver or friar and none of them have silence. If you're losing to locks on a tank it's not because locks are op. It takes over 30 seconds to get off all 3 chambers, you should be able to kill most locks easily in under 20. Where's the caster ml10 cloak that allows us to completely disarm a tank for 10 seconds and free cast? Can you imagine the bitchfest that would happen if such an item /use was made available?
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jojobonojo
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Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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Mezzedbyabear posted:
Where's the caster ml10 cloak that allows us to completely disarm a tank for 10 seconds and free cast? Can you imagine the bitchfest that would happen if such an item /use was made available?
Pictish disarm was in game and no one gave a profanity, AND it was pbae.
Are you all bent out of shape because you actually had to kite on your warlock every once in a while. Plant and keyboard mash didn't work every time? What a shame.
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Vyxar
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Subject:
Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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ArcApt posted:
Vyxar posted:
Not really. Tanks are usually better head to head. So much so that the game ends up getting kinda messed up in fact because casters are so incredibly weak solo.
Full groups do better with casters because of the population and the terrain. You put 2 groups out where you have even numbers and some kind of neutral terrain and tanks are going to do extremely well in general.
Ability wise though the biggest thing would be if they got rid of/modified speedwarp mechanics. So of all the things in the patch the mentalists getting free speedwarp makes me the saddest because it probably means they aren't even considering changing them. Between those and everything being so centered around towers/keeps (guards) or having to deal with pets or weird terrain advantages like water that you can't find reliable action as a tank group so people are more inclined to run (and get better results) with casters.
I never really thought of it that way but i guess SWs do in fact hinder melees more, though it would remove the only defence groups have against masses. Especially since NF's flat highways tend to make zergs pursue for a longer time.
I can but disagree on your idea of caster/melee balance though, as far as group dynamics are concerned: group melee dps tends to be weak overall, easily negated by 25% duration CC/stat debuffs at that and finally supports overwhelmed by pets if there aren't enough allied casters to clear them out. Moreover, the neutral terrain you're talking about can't be NF's high-visibility highways anymore than water.
Here's a thought experiment for you. Imagine an group vs group fight with no speedwarps where 1 group is caster based and the other is tank based. Since we're worried about pets influence the caster group will be alb. You pick the hib/mid setup.
I just don't see any possible way for the caster group to consistently win. You won't be able to out position them. Between SoS and Charge and stocism/det making that 25% duration cc last maybe 15 seconds on the tanks you just won't be able to keep them off of everything because that same CC will last 45+ seconds on everyone else. Back in the day I played mana eld specifically to maximize snare nuke+disease to more or less keep as many of those tanks slowed down as much as possible. With group cure disease I don't think it would work anymore.
If you can think of how this is going to favor a caster group I'll play along though.
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xsp33d2x
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Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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dryedmeats posted:
They didint remove be cause of casters , they did it because douchers using it to homo down stealthers without any fear of reprisal or vanish.
So yeah they dont need it.
so a fg of stealthers that you run in cloak shearing someone isn't gay?
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Mezzedbyabear
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Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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jojobonojo posted:
Mezzedbyabear posted:
Where's the caster ml10 cloak that allows us to completely disarm a tank for 10 seconds and free cast? Can you imagine the bitchfest that would happen if such an item /use was made available?
Pictish disarm was in game and no one gave a profanity, AND it was pbae.
Are you all bent out of shape because you actually had to kite on your warlock every once in a while. Plant and keyboard mash didn't work every time? What a shame.
No one gave a profanity? There was so much qqing it got nerfed in like a week. What does silence have to do w/ kiting? I always kite tanks on my lock, not enough power to beat them otherwise. Don't see how a caster can kite when they're silenced and get slammed or snared when they try to run lol. I'm sorry my lock raped your face at one point in time, I understand your anger.
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Whiplashz
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Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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Mezzedbyabear posted:
Whiplashz posted:
Mezzedbyabear posted:
Nah cause then you'd have to temp it in even if the utility sucked. I know a profanity ton of albs temp the silence cloak just for an I win button against any caster. Seems far too cheesy for me. The only tank I have that cloak on is my warrior and that's just because it happened to have stats I needed. I never use it anyways cause I'm always using celerity charges.
Somebody playing a warlock should talk about I win bottons. So a tank approaches warlock. They interrupt then warlock starts using uninterurputable life taps. Then tank slams or stuns. Warlock purges chamber dump and continues to uninterurputable cast. Use power charge if needed. Rinse repeat.
I just saying you can run thru and stuff like that but there is no reason a tank should die to caster who they are beating on.
I agree. I have no problem beating locks on my hero, vamp, arms, reaver or friar and none of them have silence. If you're losing to locks on a tank it's not because locks are op. It takes over 30 seconds to get off all 3 chambers, you should be able to kill most locks easily in under 20. Where's the caster ml10 cloak that allows us to completely disarm a tank for 10 seconds and free cast? Can you imagine the bitchfest that would happen if such an item /use was made available?
I also generally eat up most casters without silence all I am saying Is that To remove it from the game will hurt tanks in a already caster favored game
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jojobonojo
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Subject:
Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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jojobonojo posted:
Mezzedbyabear posted:
Where's the caster ml10 cloak that allows us to completely disarm a tank for 10 seconds and free cast? Can you imagine the bitchfest that would happen if such an item /use was made available?
Pictish disarm was in game and no one gave a profanity, AND it was pbae.
Are you all bent out of shape because you actually had to kite on your warlock every once in a while. Plant and keyboard mash didn't work every time? What a shame.
Mezzedbyabear posted:
No one gave a profanity?
Yes, no one gives a profanity. I don't know why it was changed, but it was completely removed this patch. Have you heard tanks even mention it? No, because no one cares.
Mezzedbyabear posted:
What does silence have to do w/ kiting? I always kite tanks on my lock, not enough power to beat them otherwise.
Judging by threads in the midgard caster section this is because you don't understand that %cost spells are off base power pool, and your template blows(you've posted them).
Mezzedbyabear posted:
I'm sorry my lock raped your face at one point in time, I understand your anger.
I primarily play mid, so I've never had the pleasure of fighting your warlock. As for your other characters, the legend of your badness permeates these boards so I'm not particularly concerned.
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Mezzedbyabear
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Who are my other characters?
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Robust-_-
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Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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no one knows. but he and i are both sure they are played horribly.
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Mezzedbyabear
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Ya my lock temp that caps everything is awful. You gentlemen are quite mad. Understandable.
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mynamegotowned
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I don't like it, there are so many different items that you can use to enhance melee or magic resists. Silence was a bit gay in solo situations but it is very useful in 1vX XvX. It brought a challenge to the game.
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Asmodar
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Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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i see mor tank groups running now.
i do feel that alb has gotten the long end of the stick though (and its what i play (with  ) exclusively)
- 70+% resists on tanks (true for all)
- upped spec resists (true for all)
- AoM fix (true for all)
in combination with
- af pally chant stacking (tsunami of tears inc)
- and the already strong heretic rr5 + BaoD
it will be pretty sweet...
iirc the pally af chant is something unique to alb
athough most people in alb do not cancel their conc. spec af even if they have a pally in group because they are not aware that it has a 10 times higher value. now they do not even need too know that. tehy get the value PLUS the spec conc af value.
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DarkPCK
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Dislike, and I primarily play support and casters.
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Salomon_X
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Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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WTB silence poisons 
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Devaster-S-
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Ml10 tank cloak change. Like, dislike, don't care?
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DarkPCK posted:
Dislike, and I primarily play support and casters.
Same. May not be playing my tanks or minstrel/skald as much after this. Because getting trained down by uninterrupted casters is sooo much fun.
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