levgre
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Mass transit use rises as gas prices soar
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Very good thing, it's mandatory that we embrace public transportation, and sooner is better. Our prices are still low globally, but that is unsustainable with such high consumption.
http://money.cnn.com/2012/03/12/news/economy/mass-transit/index.htm?hpt=hp_t3
NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- Ridership on the nation's trains and buses hit one of the highest levels in decades, with officials crediting high gas prices, a stronger economy and new technology that makes riding public transit easier.
In 2011, Americans took 10.4 billion trips on mass transit -- which includes buses, trains, street cars and ferries, according to the American Public Transportation Association.
That's a 2.3% increase over 2010 and just shy of the number of trips in 2008, when gasoline spiked to a record national average of $4.11 a gallon.
"As people get jobs and go back to work, they get on mass transit more," said Michael Melaniphy, president of APTA. "And then when people look at gas prices, they really get on transit more."
Melaniphy said gas prices near $4 a gallon tends to be the tipping point that pushes more people onto mass transit.
While the highest gasoline price spike was in 2008, gas prices averaged $3.51 a gallon in 2011 -- the highest annual average ever.
Currently, nationwide average gas prices are just above $3.80 -- the highest ever for this time of year, according to AAA.
Many analysts expect record gas prices in 2012 as the global economy recovers and tensions remain high in the Middle East.
Ridership on public transit, which is measured by number of trips taken, hit its highest level in the mid-1940s -- roughly double today's rate.
But with the widespread adoption of the automobile and America's suburbanization in the 1950s, public transit use steadily declined until the early 1970s, when gas prices spiked following the Arab oil embargo. 2011's ridership rate is the second highest since 1957.
In addition to gas prices and a rebounding economy, Melaniphy said new technologies have made taking public transportation easier for the general public.
A plethora of mobile-phone applications -- there are over 100 for New York City alone -- can display train or bus schedules for your current location. And count-down clocks at train platforms or bus stops take some of the frustration out of waiting for your ride.
"Our member agencies are putting a better product out on the street," said Melaniphy.
Roughly 5% of the population commutes using public transport, according to the Census Department.
Spending on public transport totals roughly $50 billion a year, Melaniphy said. He noted that 75% of those dollars find their way to private companies in the form of construction contracts, fuel purchases and other expenditures.
Funding for public transportation is split roughly evenly between federal dollars from the gasoline tax, money from state and local property and sales taxes, and ridership fees.
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Allmightybob_MLF
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Cars are still very much needed.
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Jyiiga
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I will fart around on a Vespa or even a bike before I ride the bus/subway.
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levgre
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Allmightybob_MLF posted:
Cars are still very much needed.
Obviously... cars and robust mass transit can co-exist peacefully.
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Mangler_SC
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American society has been set up for the last 100 years on personal transportation... Why the sudden shift? Just because we have an asshole Pres?
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myxomatosis8
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Not sure where the upswing in mass transit has been, but similar to what Mangler said, at least my city really is not set up for mass transit.
I'm sorry, but it's unacceptable to have a trip that takes 8 minutes by car take 30 by bus on a weekday, and an hour on a weekend.
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jeune
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Mangler_SC posted:
American society has been set up for the last 100 years on personal transportation... Why the sudden shift? Just because we have an asshole Pres?
Article I did not Read posted:
Ridership on public transit, which is measured by number of trips taken, hit its highest level in the mid-1940s -- roughly double today's rate.
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Lothland
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myxomatosis8 posted:
Not sure where the upswing in mass transit has been, but similar to what Mangler said, at least my city really is not set up for mass transit.
I'm sorry, but it's unacceptable to have a trip that takes 8 minutes by car take 30 by bus on a weekday, and an hour on a weekend.
It really does depend on the city, Orlando is terrible while Vancouver is pretty damn good.
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levgre
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myxomatosis8 posted:
Not sure where the upswing in mass transit has been, but similar to what Mangler said, at least my city really is not set up for mass transit.
I'm sorry, but it's unacceptable to have a trip that takes 8 minutes by car take 30 by bus on a weekday, and an hour on a weekend.
Sorry, they can't start to expand routes until they actually have people using those routes. Ease of use climbs as participation climbs.
People 100 years ago didn't know how easily we could use up fossil fuel reserves. And there were a lot less people. Also consumption didn't really rocket skywards until later in the century, when we developed our current style of living (suburbs, longer transits, etc.)
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ACX
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The MBTA just cut a bunch of bus routes near where I work, and jacked up fares again. They suck.
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Rhodoman
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levgre posted:
it's mandatory that we embrace public transportation
No, it's really not.
Nor should it be.
Rho
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TheUnholyGhost
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More companies embracing teleworkers and broadband infrastructure will do far more for fossil fuel retention than adding more buses and trains.
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levgre
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Rhodoman posted:
levgre posted:
it's mandatory that we embrace public transportation
No, it's really not.
Nor should it be.
Rho
Yup, sorry it is, it's simple math. It's not ideological or political. The resources don't exist to sustain our current transportation system in the long run. The only other alternative would be the development of highly effective alternative fuel sources for cars, but the technology for public transportation is already here, and easier to implement.
You already see public transportation going more mainstream with "slugging", and as gas prices continue to gradually increase, people will innovate more, rather than sacrificing a lot of money for a little convenience.
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-Foxy-
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dart works and i love taking the train when i can.
then again, i just love trains too ;p
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Bat_Avenger
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let's embrace the separation of classes; those who have money drive cars, those who don't take mass transit. Less morons driving on my roads. all is right in the world.
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Brother_Tempus
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levgre posted:
Very good thing,
No it's not .. becuase of a flawed and immoral foriegn policy and excessive money printing, our government has artificially pushed gas prices higher than they should be, making more Americans poorer than they should be.
Thus forcing them to become more dependent on another flawed and illegal government system of transportation which is leaking massively in the red becuase it doesn't work UNLESS AS WE SEE NOW ... government can depress the people's wealth sufficiently
But it is no surprise levgre is so happy, he loves it when government can slap Americans around into submission and force them to accept the solutions that government mandates as opposed to common sense and competitive free markets
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Cuttlery
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Brother_Tempus posted:
levgre posted:
Very good thing,
No it's not .. We need to support big oil in corporate welfare like vagina Doctor Ron Paul.
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Fozzie_Bear
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mass transit sucks and if you like it/ride it, you're poor and you suck
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Brother_Tempus
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Fozzie_Bear posted:
mass transit sucks and if you like it/ride it, you're poor and you suck
The problem is government is making a lot of Americans poor that should not be thus forcing them to use public transportation
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The mass transit system around here is fantastic even though I rarely take it. Buses are clean and always on time, trains are really nice, park and ride lots are nice.
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Dwaveran
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i guess none of you live in nyc
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JD_HOGG
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The sooner poor people get off my roads the better. Get their asses on the bus so my rich friends and I can DRIVE IN PEACE!!!
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I wish we had public transport here. If we wanted to move into Omaha we would have it, but out here there is none and it sucks.
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Dark_EternalFF
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Dwaveran posted:
i guess none of you live in nyc
Why the fk would I?
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Ptilk
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I took the train everyday when I lived in Chicago. Be crazy not to do so. I could walk one block west, get on the train and get off in the basement of the building where I worked in about 15 minutes.
Or
I could shovel snow for 3 hours to get from my garage to the street, get on Lake Shore (one block east of my house) and spend 40 minutes driving thru horrible traffic at 15mph to get downtown, then spend 30 more minutes getting to my parking spot (which cost 600 bucks a month) then walk two more blocks to my building.
Sadly, where I live now has no public transportation, but then....it has no public to speak of. You can drive for 20 miles without seeing a house.
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Cawlin
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levgre posted:
it's mandatory that we embrace public transportation
Yes I look forward to spending 90 minutes in transit time one way that will replace my straight shot if I were driving 13 miles over the mountain to my office and arriving an hour and a half late each morning because the ONLY bus route that I don't have to drive to (and just walk 1.2 miles to instead) ONLY runs twice per day, once when it picks me up at 8:02 am (if it's running on time, which it is notorious for NOT doing) and drops me off at work at 9:24 (if it's running on time, which it is notorious for NOT doing) after it goes halfway around the rest of the county.
Also I look forward to telling my employer that I have to leave an hour early too because that same bus route also leaves my employer's location at 4pm and gets me back home at 5:30 at which point I have to walk another 1.2 miles to home.
I especially look forward to this commute when it's snowing and sleeting and just generally sihtty weather from November to mid March each year.
I suppose an alternative I could embrace would be riding my bike up and over the mountain and arriving at work sweating like a hog or after dealing with snow, ice, and other random weather hazards, and finding a place to shower at work and change clothes in the morning. It will be a special treat to repeat that trip in reverse up and over the mountain again in the afternoon on my bike, only to arrive home again needing a shower before I cook dinner.
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Incoming portal storm.
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Mass transit is not being advocated for areas where there are no masses to take advantage of it.
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Sith_Mauler
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high gas prices is also making locally produced goods cheaper to buy.
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Ptilk posted:
Mass transit is not being advocated for areas where there are no masses to take advantage of it.
levgre posted:
it's mandatory that we embrace public transportation
Silly me. See I thought that PUBLIC transportation was being advocated as mandatory, and given that I am part of the PUBLIC, I foolishly assumed this meant me too...
Oh and also, I look forward to hauling 5 or 6 guns and several hundred rounds of ammo to the range on a bus when I want to go shooting every weekend as well...
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Hawkson
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Effective and useful mass transit is an impossibility where I live.
The whole county has been designed around the freeway and the car.
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levgre
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Cawlin posted:
Ptilk posted:
Mass transit is not being advocated for areas where there are no masses to take advantage of it.
levgre posted:
it's mandatory that we embrace public transportation
Silly me. See I thought that PUBLIC transportation was being advocated as mandatory, and given that I am part of the PUBLIC, I foolishly assumed this meant me too...
Oh and also, I look forward to hauling 5 or 6 guns and several hundred rounds of ammo to the range on a bus when I want to go shooting every weekend as well...
levgre posted:
Allmightybob_MLF posted:
Cars are still very much needed.
Obviously... cars and robust mass transit can co-exist peacefully.
dur
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Gaevren
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Cawlin posted:
levgre posted:
it's mandatory that we embrace public transportation
Yes I look forward to spending 90 minutes in transit time one way that will replace my straight shot if I were driving 13 miles over the mountain to my office and arriving an hour and a half late each morning because the ONLY bus route that I don't have to drive to (and just walk 1.2 miles to instead) ONLY runs twice per day, once when it picks me up at 8:02 am (if it's running on time, which it is notorious for NOT doing) and drops me off at work at 9:24 (if it's running on time, which it is notorious for NOT doing) after it goes halfway around the rest of the county.
Also I look forward to telling my employer that I have to leave an hour early too because that same bus route also leaves my employer's location at 4pm and gets me back home at 5:30 at which point I have to walk another 1.2 miles to home.
I especially look forward to this commute when it's snowing and sleeting and just generally sihtty weather from November to mid March each year.
I suppose an alternative I could embrace would be riding my bike up and over the mountain and arriving at work sweating like a hog or after dealing with snow, ice, and other random weather hazards, and finding a place to shower at work and change clothes in the morning. It will be a special treat to repeat that trip in reverse up and over the mountain again in the afternoon on my bike, only to arrive home again needing a shower before I cook dinner.
In the places where mass transit is set up well, available in frequent intervals, it is a treat. My husband, on the days he would have to go into Chicago (we live 3 hours away) would drive or ride his motorcycle to the nearest commuter train station and ride that the rest of the way in. It took the same amount of time as driving, if there was no traffic on the roads, but he could relax and read and not have to put up with traffic or douche canoes on the road. The stop to get off was about a block from his workplace. If you look at the Chicago network of trains and transportation it's this huge spiderweb network that branches out incredibly. I imagine New York and some other places are similar, but they are few compared to the cities with no such network.
When we lived in Germany the bus and train system were incredible. Buses came by the stops every 10 minutes on the dot and were generally used for in-town travel. Sometimes the routes went to a nearby town but never further than that. Trains were for inter-town travel. The trains didn't come every 10 minutes, it was more like every half hour or so, but that was still usually more than enough.
Granted, I am well aware it's not feasible to have a system just like Germany's, partly because our country is so huge and sprawling compared to theirs. In-city transit would be more easily accomplished for all but the most rural towns, though. The trouble is actually getting people to use the transit systems. When gas is cheap and using your own car is more convenient, why bother with public transportation? But now that gas prices are going up so much, I think we'll start to see more people switching to public transportation, and asking for more train/bus availability in routes and times.
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Anebriated
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de-fund mass transit and then complain about how poorly it works. rinse, repeat. ignore personal responsibility that comes with the power to consume. rinse, repeat.
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JD_HOGG
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Anebriated posted:
de-fund mass transit and then complain about how poorly it works. rinse, repeat. ignore personal responsibility that comes with the power to consume. rinse, repeat.
You mean they can't make mass transit work from ticket sales?
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jonus156
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a population is easily controlled when it isn't self mobile
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BritonGuy
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Just another tax for the government to increase when they overspend. Get hooked on it and see the prices rise.
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JD_HOGG
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jonus156 posted:
a population is easily controlled when it isn't self mobile
That's why commie lefties love mass transit. The environment is just a cover.
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Anebriated
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if your goal is mass transit, affordable to pretty much everyone, then probably not (re: making it work from just ticket sales). most companies don't generate profits by guaranteeing a service to everyone.
consider instead the cost of continuing to use an infrastructure dependent on a short-term resource. consider that living miles and miles away from your work is actually a luxury you have just gotten used to, and have become entrenched in. something will have to give eventually.
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Tipztoe
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Dark_EternalFF posted:
Dwaveran posted:
i guess none of you live in nyc
Why the fk would I?
my next job is going to be outside the city..
sucks all around.. paying for parking, paying for subway.. crappy traffic
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Ah-Schoo
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Brother_Tempus posted:
Fozzie_Bear posted:
mass transit sucks and if you like it/ride it, you're poor and you suck
The problem is government is making a lot of Americans poor that should not be thus forcing them to use public transportation
And yet there are a couple people that don't call you a troll.
Admittedly, one is married to you.
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myxomatosis8
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Fozzie_Bear posted:
mass transit sucks and if you like it/ride it, you're poor and you suck
And this is another problem with mass transit. Unless you live in a very large city with a subway system (pretty much) buses are seen as poor people transportation. You don't see this stupid mindset in Europe...
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_sooz_
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myxomatosis8 posted:
Fozzie_Bear posted:
mass transit sucks and if you like it/ride it, you're poor and you suck
And this is another problem with mass transit. Unless you live in a very large city with a subway system (pretty much) buses are seen as poor people transportation. You don't see this stupid mindset in Europe...
Yup, where i grew up we had such excellent public transport that a lot of people (me included) dont bother getting a drivers licence as there is no need.
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Tipztoe
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myxomatosis8 posted:
Fozzie_Bear posted:
mass transit sucks and if you like it/ride it, you're poor and you suck
And this is another problem with mass transit. Unless you live in a very large city with a subway system (pretty much) buses are seen as poor people transportation. You don't see this stupid mindset in Europe...
The problem with buses is they have to go the same roads you do, but make several stops on the way. They're also pricey and most of the people forgot how to bathe.
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Fozzie_Bear
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So by virtue of not being told I'm wrong, I'm right.
Excellent
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_sooz_
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Tipztoe posted:
myxomatosis8 posted:
Fozzie_Bear posted:
mass transit sucks and if you like it/ride it, you're poor and you suck
And this is another problem with mass transit. Unless you live in a very large city with a subway system (pretty much) buses are seen as poor people transportation. You don't see this stupid mindset in Europe...
The problem with buses is they have to go the same roads you do, but make several stops on the way. They're also pricey and most of the people forgot how to bathe.
Pricey? Back home i pay 8 pounds (about $12.50) for unlimited bus journeys for a week. Failing that it's about a pound a journey, depending on distance etc.
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jeune
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I was riding the bus the other day and a person a few seats away from me was talking about how horrid his bed-bug infection in his apartment was... made me start sitting in the plastic seats and not the ones with any covering.
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Tipztoe
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_sooz_ posted:
Pricey? Back home i pay 8 pounds (about $12.50) for unlimited bus journeys for a week. Failing that it's about a pound a journey, depending on distance etc.
last time I looked at that option going from NH to Boston was 12 bucks round trip daily. And they were trying to raise prices.
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_sooz_
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Tipztoe posted:
_sooz_ posted:
Pricey? Back home i pay 8 pounds (about $12.50) for unlimited bus journeys for a week. Failing that it's about a pound a journey, depending on distance etc.
last time I looked at that option going from NH to Boston was 12 bucks round trip daily. And they were trying to raise prices.
What the sh*t? Are they gold-plated buses or what?!
(assuming that's a short journey... if its a long journey, then fair enough)
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_sooz_ posted:
Tipztoe posted:
_sooz_ posted:
Pricey? Back home i pay 8 pounds (about $12.50) for unlimited bus journeys for a week. Failing that it's about a pound a journey, depending on distance etc.
last time I looked at that option going from NH to Boston was 12 bucks round trip daily. And they were trying to raise prices.
What the sh*t? Are they gold-plated buses or
what?!
(assuming that's a short journey... if its a long journey, then fair enough)
Massport is full of crooks.
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jeune
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Tipztoe posted:
_sooz_ posted:
Pricey? Back home i pay 8 pounds (about $12.50) for unlimited bus journeys for a week. Failing that it's about a pound a journey, depending on distance etc.
last time I looked at that option going from NH to Boston was 12 bucks round trip daily. And they were trying to raise prices.
Getting from Hanover to Boston was $60 roundtrip (prob more now)... it was a 2 hr drive though and a few tolls and the bus had wifi.
$12 does not seem to bad... especially if you are paying for parking in Boston.
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Tipztoe
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and if you miss your bus, you're at least an hour late for work
f that..
I need to be able to get in on a moments notice and leave on a moments notice.
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This kind of thing just makes me miss civilization (England) even more...
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myxomatosis8
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_sooz_ posted:
This kind of thing just makes me miss civilization (England) even more...
Well, you DID move to Nebraska...
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combat_mage_sc
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public transportation are for the poor, welfare and scummy gangbangers with one parent in prison.
and liberals
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_sooz_
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myxomatosis8 posted:
_sooz_ posted:
This kind of thing just makes me miss civilization (England) even more...
Well, you DID move to Nebraska...
Touche
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-Mithan-
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Eh, if they go up too high, the economy will slow down again and prices will drop once more.
Now as for all the dumb american's against the Tar Sands, I hope it feels good up the ass.
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Gaevren posted:
In the places where mass transit is set up well,
Which are few and far between and so the money stolen from taxpayers to subsidize transportation like we subsidize banks, like we subsidize businesses ... is wasted ... money that the taxpayer could improve the way of life flushed down the crapper by government hubris and malfeasance
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Brother_Tempus posted:
Gaevren posted:
In the places where mass transit is set up well,
They see me trollin.
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Where you have large urban areas it makes sense.
You can densify downtown by eliminating parking areas, and an effective system in urban areas will take about the same time or less to commute than a car would, an it cost a lot less for the passenger that the price of owning, maintaining a fueling a car.
All that being said, yes they are subsidized by taxpayers like schools and roads etc.
The users don't directly pay for all of the ride as it is subsidized usually from revenues generated from gas taxes, the theory being less roads will have to be built and maintained if an effective alternate is available.
It is a quality of life issue, and where a transit system (train/subway) is available to me, I would prefer to take it and read the paper on the way to work and pick up chicks on the way home from happy hour.
I have scored big on subway trains.
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Anebriated
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Lanacan posted:
oh, i did laugh.
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the_great_ontex
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Lanacan posted:
RIP 
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Jyiiga posted:
I will fart around on a Vespa or even a bike before I ride the bus/subway.
I will become a gay male prostitute before I ride the bus or subway
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-Mithan- posted:
Eh, if they go up too high, the economy will slow down again and prices will drop once more.
Now as for all the dumb american's against the Tar Sands, I hope it feels good up the ass.
Americans don't have a say in the way Canadians are destroying the world's environment with tar sand mining. That's all on you guys.
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JD_HOGG
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tar sands sounds racist sorry. Can't support that.
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Dark_EternalFF
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myxomatosis8 posted:
Fozzie_Bear posted:
mass transit sucks and if you like it/ride it, you're poor and you suck
And this is another problem with mass transit. Unless you live in a very large city with a subway system (pretty much) buses are seen as poor people transportation. You don't see this stupid mindset in Europe...
Please ride the bus in Miami and then tell me how awesome it felt. If possible, try to catch it around 11pm, and take a route where you have to wait at the downtown terminal for 15 minutes or so.
Yeah. If you survive the experience, then we'll talk about the current state of mass transit in the US.
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myxomatosis8
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Dark_EternalFF posted:
myxomatosis8 posted:
Fozzie_Bear posted:
mass transit sucks and if you like it/ride it, you're poor and you suck
And this is another problem with mass transit. Unless you live in a very large city with a subway system (pretty much) buses are seen as poor people transportation. You don't see this stupid mindset in Europe...
Please ride the bus in Miami and then tell me how awesome it felt. If possible, try to catch it around 11pm, and take a route where you have to wait at the downtown terminal for 15 minutes or so.
Yeah. If you survive the experience, then we'll talk about the current state of mass transit in the US.
Was mostly saying this is the mindset. If the buses were full of business people and normal useful human beings going about their days getting to and from work, things would change, and it wouldn't be the horror that is currently mass transportation in most places in North America. I agree with you man, I won't take the bus either, even in tame London, Ontario. Hell, I have a bus pass included in my tuition, yet I'm still stupid and waste the $75 a month for special snowflake parking. The simple fact of the matter is that it is impossible for me to get home in time after my classes to pick up my kids at their school bus stop if I use public transportation.
If I lived in London England, I wouldn't have a car, and I would be perfectly fine taking the buses, trains and subway there.
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Yea, that's the thing in Europe - it's much more well-developed, and far more people take it, forcing the undesirables to stay in Hull or something.
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