Yukishiro1
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Hahahahahaha BW and EA literally have no shame
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http://www.gamespot.com/news/parts-of-mass-effect-3-dlc-already-on-disc-ea-6365673
"BioWare has admitted that pieces of the From Ashes downloadable content for Mass Effect 3 are already on copies of the just-released action role-playing game. "
Translation: The DLC is actually not DLC and is part of the original game, we'll just make you pay another $10 for it because we can. 
Of course gamers will just roll over like they always do.
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Ptilk
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People pay for DLC?
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Elocism
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i got it for free with my collectors edition 
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Yukishiro1
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Elocism posted:
i got it for free with my collectors edition
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YouMightSeeMe
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Elocism posted:
i got it for free with my collectors edition
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tenkly
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>pays 20$ more for CE
> says he got 10$ DLC for free
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Elocism
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it had other stuff too...
but i did only pay $10 more at Amazon
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bstulic
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I'll buy game and all DLCs for $10 after a while
because I think its worth that much, will be totally patched
by then, and I don't support piracy
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Koneg
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bstulic posted:
I'll buy game and all DLCs for $10 after a while
because I think its worth that much, will be totally patched
by then, and I don't support piracy
Yea, pretty much this.
I refuse to spend ~$60 for a game any more, even if I'm drooling to play. I'll wait until the Big Sale to buy it.
Case-in-point, despite the fact that I'm a huge Civ fanatic I waited until this last weekend deal from Steam to pick up Civ 5.
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kedz20xx
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I just can't get on board with the BW bandwagon. They've gone downhill since sucking the EA crank.
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Yukishiro1
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They've never been uphill, at least not on their own.
I used to think BW used to be great until Cobane pointed out to me that all the great games I think of BW making had one thread running through them: they had all Black Isle input in a big way. Baldur's Gate was published by BI, Planescape:Torment was BI entirely, so was Icewind Dale.
Something about the BW/BI partnership worked really well. When that partnership broke up the game quality went downhill. You can tell because the first post-BI game, Neverwinter Nights, was the worst thing BW has ever made by a country mile. And BI games went downhill after that too.
BW doesn't make bad games by any means (except for NWN, which really was awful from the point of view of the game itself rather than the development tools). But they arn't as good as they used to be.
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Elocism
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ME2 is the finest video game of all time
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Phlegm573
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Koneg posted:
bstulic posted:
I'll buy game and all DLCs for $10 after a while
because I think its worth that much, will be totally patched
by then, and I don't support piracy
Yea, pretty much this.
I refuse to spend ~$60 for a game any more, even if I'm drooling to play. I'll wait until the Big Sale to buy it.
Case-in-point, despite the fact that I'm a huge Civ fanatic I waited until this last weekend deal from Steam to pick up Civ 5.
It's what I did with ME1 and 2 too.
Skyrim and BF3 were the only games in recent memory I've paid full price for. (actually BF3 was 10% off too & had free Back to Karkand)
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cobane
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Elocism posted:
ME2 is the most pointless video game of all time.
Yep. I like how the first thing you have to do in ME3 is rebuild the team you spent the entire last game building.
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Yukishiro1
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cobane posted:
Elocism posted:
ME2 is the most pointless video game of all time.
Yep. I like how the first thing you have to do in ME3 is rebuild the team you spent the entire last game building.
Yeah ME2 is another good example of how totally shameless BW and EA have become.
The whole game is a glorified side story that does nothing to advance the plot at all.
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cobane
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And ME3 is looking like a tired retread of the first Dragon Age. You're doing the same exact thing: rallying the different kingdoms together to fight Ancient Evil. Which is very refreshing after spending the last game rallying the different superstars of the galaxy together to fight Ancient Evil. EA needs to put BioWare in charge of the Madden series.
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Remnant_OBrien
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Yeah... It's really disappointing that Bioware went back to that boring old tripe of fighting evil.
I hope in their next game the core concept is punching true neutral in the balls.
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Yukishiro1
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The problem isn't fighting ancient evil, the problem is the extremely derivative plot structure - which incidentally goes back to NWN. Another reason that game was so awful.
"Do four things in any order, then confront the boss guy!" is not a very interesting game setup.
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Eradiani
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this is why I stopped buying EA games... Last one I bought was Dragon Age and they pulled this crap.. so yeah screw EA
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Mangler_X
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Voodoo-Dahl
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People could fix this problem by, Oh, I don't know, NOT BUYING THEIR GODDAMN GAMES.
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Kordirn
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The only time I ever get DLC is if I buy the game of the year edition.
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RHWarrior
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Haven't played any of the Ass Effect games, did I miss out?
Suppose I should try the first one and then forget about the sequels...
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bstulic
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RHWarrior posted:
Haven't played any of the Ass Effect games, did I miss out?
Suppose I should try the first one and then forget about the sequels...
First one is good up until point where you have to drive
vehicle around...horrible
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kedz20xx
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Yukishiro1 posted:
They've never been uphill, at least not on their own.
I used to think BW used to be great until Cobane pointed out to me that all the great games I think of BW making had one thread running through them: they had all Black Isle input in a big way. Baldur's Gate was published by BI, Planescape:Torment was BI entirely, so was Icewind Dale.
Something about the BW/BI partnership worked really well. When that partnership broke up the game quality went downhill. You can tell because the first post-BI game, Neverwinter Nights, was the worst thing BW has ever made by a country mile. And BI games went downhill after that too.
BW doesn't make bad games by any means (except for NWN, which really was awful from the point of view of the game itself rather than the development tools). But they arn't as good as they used to be.
Okay, I can agree with this. Maybe more of a middle hill on their own, then.
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kedz20xx
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Mass Effect has some interesting things in it. When you get down to the meat of the series, it's really a bland story.
Mass Effect's story line:
ME1
Fights for mankind > becomes super space ninja > tracks down bad guy > learns some back story > finds bad guy > kills bad guy > giant space hand/squid tries to dominate the galaxy > hero rapes squid with uber ship
ME2
Advanced ship gets molested, hero dies > shady operation fixes hero > hero gathers resources > hero gathers crew > more resources > some alien babe humping > more crew > more resources > some back story > kill human reaper > fly off into space
Haven't played ME3 yet. May rent it.
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Taliesihne
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Not sure what's so scandalous about this other then bad security practices.
This type of stuff is in EVERY game with plans for DLC. To be fair, it shows smart engineering and a team that was operating ahead of schedule.
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Yukishiro1
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No, it shows the shamelessness of modern game companies that sell you the game but put locks on part of it until you pay them even more. 
If your "DLC" is part of the original CD it's not DLC. If you can finish the content in time to put it on the original CD it should come in the purchase price.
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Koneg
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Yukishiro1 posted:
No, it shows the shamelessness of modern game companies that sell you the game but put locks on part of it until you pay them even more.
If your "DLC" is part of the original CD it's not DLC. If you can finish the content in time to put it on the original CD it should come in the purchase price.
All DLC uses elements of the original game. Sound effects, visual effects, entity models, textures, terrain etc ad infinitum. That is the nature of DLC. MOST of what you find in any DLC already exists in the original game.
If you have a problem with the fact that some of this DLC was on the original CD then you're just being a picky bitch.
Do you want to play that DLC? Then pay for it. If you don't... don't. Who gives a fark if it was on the original CD? Seriously?
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Yukishiro1
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They're not talking about that.
Read the story. The new character in the DLC is too central to the game to really be real DLC. The original game was built with the day-one extra-cost DLC in mind and that DLC was basically loaded into the original game, just inaccessible until you pay the unlock fee.
They are only selling you part the game for the box fee. If you want the whole game they worked on you have to pay more...because they feel like gouging you.
It's just the logical next step in "DLC." I've been saying for years DLC will just result in game companies making shorter games and charging you full price then gouging you for the rest of the game they would have made anyhow. This is a prime example of that.
edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRRpGlmtws8&feature=player_embedded
All you have to do to unlock the new DLC $10 character is edit one of the text files.
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Koneg
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Yukishiro1 posted:
The original game was built with the day-one extra-cost DLC in mind
Uhm. Duh?
Yukishiro1 posted:
It's just the logical next step in "DLC." I've been saying for years DLC will just result in game companies making shorter games and charging you full price then gouging you for the rest of the game they would have made anyhow. This is a prime example of that.
I'm not saying I disagree with you. I'm saying you're totally over-reacting.
If you don't want to be gouged... don't be?
Back to my Civ5 example. Civ came with something like 7 "DLCs". The original game was $60 and each DLC was ~$5 to ~$10.
When I bought it the game and all DLCs combined cost me $13.
The market is a self-correcting entity. If game makers can sell something for $60 and sell a bunch of add-ons for $7 they will. You and others like you have the ability to correct that behavior by just not buying it. Literally.
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Yukishiro1
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I'm not overreacting. You do not know me very well if you think this really upsets me.
But it's just a fact it is pretty shameless to release day-one DLC that is actually part of the original game and just amounts to charging you $10 to unlock part of the game you already have.
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GrymmDAOC
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The new character is not at all vital to the main game. With the DLC you get a new mission and a new character who just provides commentary...that's it. If people want to get pissed, they should be pissed at the fact there are hints that a future DLC will be required to get a more beneficial end-game scenario.
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GrilledCheez
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DLC is a great idea in theory. In practice MBAs will make anything suck.
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Remnant_OBrien
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My impression is that the prothean is not central to the game at all. He's an interesting bit of flavor but not necessary to the story.
He adds interesting flavor, gives perspective that a lot of people wanted to see in the story. But the heart of ME3 is interacting with the folks you already know and how they shape how certain scenarios play out.
In terms of narrative structure feel, at its core the concept is similar to ME2. In that you're doing things to rally people to your side. (at least the first half of the game which i've played.)
But the way it plays out feels very different from ME2. ME3 does an excellent job of making it feel like there's actually a huge war on. And instead of collecting superstars of the galaxy. Your meeting up with your superstar friends to kick ass (sometimes) together. I think ME3 does emphasize that the story consequences of ME2 are pretty minimal and ultimately unresolved. The primary purpose of ME2 was just to introduce characters and situations that help make ME3 meaningful.
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Yukishiro1
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Remnant_OBrien posted:
The primary purpose of ME2 was to stretch a story long enough for two games into three games so EA could make more money.
Fixt.
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GrymmDAOC
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Remnant_OBrien posted:
But the way it plays out feels very different from ME2. ME3 does an excellent job of making it feel like there's actually a huge war on. And instead of collecting superstars of the galaxy. Your meeting up with your superstar friends to kick ass (sometimes) together. I think ME3 does emphasize that the story consequences of ME2 are pretty minimal and ultimately unresolved. The primary purpose of ME2 was just to introduce characters and situations that help make ME3 meaningful.
ME 3 does do an excellent job of portraying a hopeless and desperate war. I think the ending scenarios did not make much sense, and could have been better written.
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Remnant_OBrien
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Well sort of.. but lets face it.. ME1 didn't have that many interesting characters. There's something like 10 out of the 30 recurring characters that came from ME1. (warning: broad generalization) And ME2 gave more characterization of the existing characters.
ME3 wouldn't be a interesting of a story without the existence of ME2.
Characters introduced in ME2: Thane , Mordin , Miranda, Jacob, Kelly Chambers, Aria, Zaeed, Kasumi, Legion, that Asari bartender, Jack, EDI, Grunt, C-Sec officer Bailey, Illusive Man, Samara, the Quarians.
Additional character development occured for Tali, GArrus, Wrex, Joker, Dr. Chakwas, Liara, Kaiden/Ashley (barely), story development included a deeper look at the Genophage, the protheans, the geth-quarian conflict, the asari, the criminal underworld, and cerberus.
(I can't comment on Overlord or Arrival DLC, which does come up pin ME3.
All of these characters and background details were engaging, and there role in ME3 is more meaningful because of the development in ME2. And no, this background detail wouldn't be the same packed into one game. Both the onset of time between the two games, and the difference of tone, wouldn't allow for as rich of a story.
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Hahahahahaha BW and EA literally have no shame
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GrymmDAOC posted:
Remnant_OBrien posted:
But the way it plays out feels very different from ME2. ME3 does an excellent job of making it feel like there's actually a huge war on. And instead of collecting superstars of the galaxy. Your meeting up with your superstar friends to kick ass (sometimes) together. I think ME3 does emphasize that the story consequences of ME2 are pretty minimal and ultimately unresolved. The primary purpose of ME2 was just to introduce characters and situations that help make ME3 meaningful.
ME 3 does do an excellent job of portraying a hopeless and desperate war. I think the ending scenarios did not make much sense, and could have been better written.
That is what i'm hearing. haven't finished yet, But it does sound lik things got weird and confusing with the ending, just in terms violating the ways the game mechanics and interface cues worked, not really providing a clear epilogue, and gaping plot holes.
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Yukishiro1
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Hahahahahaha BW and EA literally have no shame
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Don't worry, they will have a DLC in a month or two for another $10 that will make the ending suck less and make more sense if you pony up the cash. And we'll probably find out the "new" ending was already on the disc and just needed to be unlocked by editing a text file.
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GrymmDAOC
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Hahahahahaha BW and EA literally have no shame
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Remnant_OBrien posted:
GrymmDAOC posted:
Remnant_OBrien posted:
But the way it plays out feels very different from ME2. ME3 does an excellent job of making it feel like there's actually a huge war on. And instead of collecting superstars of the galaxy. Your meeting up with your superstar friends to kick ass (sometimes) together. I think ME3 does emphasize that the story consequences of ME2 are pretty minimal and ultimately unresolved. The primary purpose of ME2 was just to introduce characters and situations that help make ME3 meaningful.
ME 3 does do an excellent job of portraying a hopeless and desperate war. I think the ending scenarios did not make much sense, and could have been better written.
That is what i'm hearing. haven't finished yet, But it does sound lik things got weird and confusing with the ending, just in terms violating the ways the game mechanics and interface cues worked, not really providing a clear epilogue, and gaping plot holes.
The ending scenarios aren't confusing..but they simply do not mesh well with everything else. The solutions presented and the resolution weren't well thought through. T
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Remnant_OBrien
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heh we'll see.
as for your on the disc silliness.
The actual artwork for the character and the skill information is small potatoes, the dialogue and the extra mission to get him are what's important.
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GrymmDAOC
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Hahahahahaha BW and EA literally have no shame
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Remnant_OBrien posted:
heh we'll see.
as for your on the disc silliness.
The actual artwork for the character and the skill information is small potatoes, the dialogue and the extra mission to get him are what's important.
There is a very interesting analysis of the ending sequence that suggests only one ending is the real ending, and the others are actually the result of indoctrination.
when you complete the game go here and take a look.
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9861052
I dunno though..seems too subtle. Though given rumours and hints dropped by bioware themselves that a future DLC will resolve the issue, who knows.
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Remnant_OBrien
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Yeah i've seen that theory. It's certainly tempting to believe seeing all the disappointment with the other endings. It doesn't really make sense to have the real ending saved for later. But a retcon might be a good idea anyhow.
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Yukishiro1
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Hahahahahaha BW and EA literally have no shame
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Remnant_OBrien posted:
heh we'll see.
as for your on the disc silliness.
The actual artwork for the character and the skill information is small potatoes, the dialogue and the extra mission to get him are what's important.
They're still charging you $10 more for content they created before the game shipped and was part of the original game.
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Kjarhall
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I've never bought DLC except for some new songs in Rock Band. I've gotten a few free codes with some older games (ME1, Alan Wake, Assassins Creed 1)
I don't see the point, most of them take like an hour or so to finish. Not worth the money.
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Remnant_OBrien
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Lair of the Shadow Broker for ME2 was excellent. I enjoyed Kasumi as well, but its not necessary.
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Koneg
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Hahahahahaha BW and EA literally have no shame
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Yukishiro1 posted:
They're still charging you $10 more for content they created before the game shipped and was part of the original game.
And? So? You're still over-reacting.
If you believed the purchase price of the game was worth paying for that game, and you received that game, then who gives a damn what else was on there that you didn't need/see/use?
(Warning! Flawed Analogy Ahead!)
You're bitching that the car manufacturer included all the plugs, cables and doo-dads needed to hook up any fancy after market stereo system, but only provided the stock stereo in your new car. If you want the fancy after-market stereo you're going to have to go out and buy it - despite the fact that the car maker could have included one and in fact anticipated your desire for one by including everything needed to make that stereo work?
Yea I know it's a bad analogy, but work with it.
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RHWarrior
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Hahahahahaha BW and EA literally have no shame
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Remnant_OBrien posted:
heh we'll see.
as for your on the disc silliness.
The actual artwork for the character and the skill information is small potatoes, the dialogue and the extra mission to get him are what's important.
They're still charging you $10 more for content they created before the game shipped and was part of the original game.
Software is distributed like this all the time.
There are millions of shareware programs that have simpler functionality that works in basic mode, and you can then unlock additional functionality for a price.
They just put the pivot between "fully locked" and "fully unlocked" closer to the complete feature set in the example of this game.
Why do you care if you transfer a tiny bit of info (an unlock key) vs. 500MB of graphics and sound data for instance?
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Yukishiro1
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Mass Effect isn't a shareware program. And DLC is supposed to post-release content, not a way to charge more for your original product.
BW is on record saying they would never take stuff out of the main game and put it in DLC instead to charge more. Although that is exactly what they are doing here.
All of this is caused by the stupid uniform pricing system of the software industry. If BW thinks their games are better than other people's games they should charge more for them. Not find ways to nickle and dime people to death by taking bits of their game out of the original game and making you pay more for it from day one as "DLC."
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