Genesis posted:

---

And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which [is] upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which [is] the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

---

Allstarslacker posted:

---

I think once you reject the notion of a universal moral authority you have to accept that all morality is relative, and that the only real reason for advocating any position is because it's what you want.

---

Jesus posted:

---

Moerinthians 3.14 Verily you may eat freely of the garden, every tree, every bush, every beast upon the plain. But do not stick your banana in your brothers buttocks.

---

NuEM posted:

---

Dealing with reality can be awkward. But I am tough.

---

IMHO posted:

---

Allstarslacker posted:

---

I think once you reject the notion of a universal moral authority you have to accept that all morality is relative, and that the only real reason for advocating any position is because it's what you want.

---

I disagree.

There is all different kinds of life on our planet. While to a novice they may all appear to be different and on their own, if you look close you will see they are all carbon based. They are all the same but have their own relativity.

There is a universal moral authority AND all morality is relative. When you can grasp that they are one in the same you may understand my position.

---

Allstarslacker posted:

---

I do not believe in a universal moral authority, and you cannot prove it is there.

I reject your position, but I don't care if you believe it.

---

IMHO posted:

---

........................
There is all different kinds of life on our planet. While to a novice they may all appear to be different and on their own, if you look close you will see they are all carbon based. They are all the same but have their own relativity.

There is a universal moral authority AND all morality is relative. When you can grasp that they are one in the same you may understand my position.

---

IMHO posted:

---

Allstarslacker posted:

---

I do not believe in a universal moral authority, and you cannot prove it is there.

I reject your position, but I don't care if you believe it.

---

“Minds are like parachutes: they only function when open.”
? Lord Thomas Dewar

---

Crackdoc posted:

---

IMHO posted:

---

.... When you can grasp that they are one in the same you may understand my position.

---

This is a classic example of someone who enters a debate and doesn't debate but states their position as the only 'REAL' one based on their own predisposed beliefs.

Might there be a 'god' who dictated specific moral rules? Sure.

Might the NOT be? Sure.

The morality of any individual is demonstrated in how they actually live, not in what they profess to believe.

---

Moe_Nox posted:

---

Jesus posted:

---

Moerinthians 3.14 Verily you may eat freely of the garden, every tree, every bush, every beast upon the plain. But do not stick your banana in your brothers buttocks.

---

---

_Enkidu_ posted:

---

Yes, I'm curious, too. What is this absolute moral authority? I didn't get the memo.

---

Tych2 posted:

---

How do I handicap myself? I don't believe in God, but I don't do drugs, I don't drink, and I don't smoke.

---

IMHO posted:

---

_Enkidu_ posted:

---

Yes, I'm curious, too. What is this absolute moral authority? I didn't get the memo.

---

Look no further than your icon

---

IMHO posted:

---

People That Choose Not To Believe In God Handicap Themselves.

---

tenkly posted:

---

I love how IMHO completely ignored the bible quotes from moe and allstar

---

Albert Einstein posted:

---

"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings"

---

Yukishiro1 posted:

---

How do you choose not to believe in something? It seems like you either believe or you don't. I don't think I could conciously chose to belive in God even if I wanted to. I mean I could tell myself I do but it wouldn't mean I really did.

---

IMHO posted:

---

Yukishiro1 posted:

---

How do you choose not to believe in something? It seems like you either believe or you don't. I don't think I could conciously chose to belive in God even if I wanted to. I mean I could tell myself I do but it wouldn't mean I really did.

---

Thanks Yuki that's a very honest question.

Not too many years ago people didn't believe in Gorillas, Then they were proven to exist. Now most people believe in Gorillas.

When I was a drunk I didn't believe in God. In order for me to get sober they said I had too. I wanted sobriety. So I set out to look for proof that God existed. I found my proof and now I believe.

---

Yukishiro1 posted:

---

So basically you convinced yourself God existed by telling yourself God existed.

Maybe that works for you. I don't think it would work for me. I am too sceptical by nature.

Short of some dramatic conversion experience I don't see how I could conciously decide to believe in God.

---

Yukishiro1 posted:

---

So basically you convinced yourself God existed by telling yourself God existed.

Maybe that works for you. I don't think it would work for me. I am too sceptical by nature.

Short of some dramatic conversion experience I don't see how I could conciously decide to believe in God.

---

IMHO posted:

---

I found my proof and now I believe.

---

tenkly posted:

---

nice logic, if you don't believe in god, something's wrong with you !1!11!!!


dude, I'm as happy as I could be, I don't need anyone or anything other than the people around me that I care and love for.

---

IMHO posted:

---

When I was a drunk I didn't believe in God. In order for me to get sober they said I had too. I wanted sobriety. So I set out to look for proof that God existed. I found my proof and now I believe.

---

IMHO posted:

---

tenkly posted:

---

nice logic, if you don't believe in god, something's wrong with you !1!11!!!


dude, I'm as happy as I could be, I don't need anyone or anything other than the people around me that I care and love for.

---

You are one of the people I was thinking about who has a hard on for God and drinks and drugs to excess.

Go figure.

---

tenkly posted:

---

IMHO posted:

---

tenkly posted:

---

nice logic, if you don't believe in god, something's wrong with you !1!11!!!


dude, I'm as happy as I could be, I don't need anyone or anything other than the people around me that I care and love for.

---

You are one of the people I was thinking about who has a hard on for God and drinks and drugs to excess.

Go figure.

---

Dude, you sound so condescending it's unreal.

also, how much do I drink? How much drugs do I do?

I wasn't aware you knew me so well. Please give me a detailed description of what I do, when I do it, and how much of it I do.

---

Crackdoc posted:

---

[quote=IMHO]........................
The morality of any individual is demonstrated in how they actually live, not in what they profess to believe.

---

Tych2 posted:

---

IMHO posted:

---

I found my proof and now I believe.

---

If you don't mind me asking.. what was your proof that god exists?

---

Tych2 posted:

---

Tych2 posted:

---

IMHO posted:

---

I found my proof and now I believe.

---

If you don't mind me asking.. what was your proof that god exists?

---

---

Tych2 posted:

---

Tych2 posted:

---

IMHO posted:

---

I found my proof and now I believe.

---

If you don't mind me asking.. what was your proof that god exists?

---

---

IMHO posted:

---

Me trying to explain my proof to you would be like trying to explain the color red to a blind man. It's not that you don't believe, it's that you don't want to believe. There is no amount of proof I can show you to change your mind. There are still people that believe the world is flat.

---

Eager_Igraine posted:

---

IMHO posted:

---

People That Choose Not To Believe In God Handicap Themselves.

---

How do you believe these people are handicapped?

---

IMHO posted:

---

I don't need to PM you. I'll keep in public.

I guess I hesitate because I have been an agnostic for so long I know what rebuttals you'll give to my answers.

---

IMHO posted:

---

Yukishiro1 posted:

---

So basically you convinced yourself God existed by telling yourself God existed.

Maybe that works for you. I don't think it would work for me. I am too sceptical by nature.

Short of some dramatic conversion experience I don't see how I could conciously decide to believe in God.

---

I understand, really. I have been where you are.

I didn't convince myself that God existed, I found my proof. There is a difference. I, like you, could have never convinced my self to believe in something. I needed proof. Unfortunately, unlike proving that Gorillas exist I can't show you the dead body of God. It is something you have to find for yourself. Most people that don't believe in God won't truly look for proof because in their mind it is so preposterous that it is a waste of time. Ask Manny, Reese or Tenkly.

---

IMHO posted:

---

I will give you something to chew on, either everything is a coincidence or nothing is.

---

Scarne posted:

---

IMHO posted:

---

I will give you something to chew on, either everything is a coincidence or nothing is.

---

Everything is a coincidence. The human mind just loves pattern matching though so it draws connections out of things that aren't related.

A lot of what religious people say can't be coincidences requires God overriding the free will of someone else which is supposed to be a no-no.

---

IMHO posted:

---

There must be something to the pattern matching for it to not be washed out by evolution, kinda makes you think that those that don't use the pattern matching are handicapping themselves.

---

IMHO posted:

---

I don't need to PM you. I'll keep in public.

I guess I hesitate because I have been an agnostic for so long I know what rebuttals you'll give to my answers.

I will give you something to chew on, either everything is a coincidence or nothing is.

---

Scarne posted:

---

IMHO posted:

---

I will give you something to chew on, either everything is a coincidence or nothing is.

---

Everything is a coincidence. The human mind just loves pattern matching though so it draws connections out of things that aren't related.

A lot of what religious people say can't be coincidences requires God overriding the free will of someone else which is supposed to be a no-no.

---

IMHO posted:

---

Thanks Snarf.

In this hive of scum and villainy it's nice to see a friendly face.

---

Halloweve posted:

---

proof ghosts like sex too!

http://blog.timesunion.com/hottopics/family-claims-ghosts-have-sex-in-their-house/6038/

---

Mastara posted:

---

Jesus himself was here in the flesh and did miracles and still some believed and some didnt. If he came here right this second it would be the same thing. That is why he wont. There will come a time when every knee WILL bow and every tongue WILL confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Nothing will change that. You can tell him to go to hell and disregard him and his word, but he wont go anywhere, you will on the other hand if you dont believe Christ is who he says he was and what he did for you. Its that simple. Well not simple, its tough thats why the gate is narrow that leads to salvation and there are few that find it and broad is the gate that leads to destruction and many will go through it. Thats the reality of the issue. Your belief doesn't change what happened, nor will him coming again change your mind.

---

Mastara posted:

---

I dont pay much mind to what you call me. I really find no issues with it. I've been called worse and sometime in the future I believe I'll be called even worse. Sticks and stones

---

Mastara posted:

---

I dont pay much mind to what you call me.

---

Mastara posted:

---

---

Manegarm posted:

---

Mastara posted:

---

---

---

IMHO posted:

---

Yukishiro1 posted:

---

How do you choose not to believe in something? It seems like you either believe or you don't. I don't think I could conciously chose to belive in God even if I wanted to. I mean I could tell myself I do but it wouldn't mean I really did.

---

Thanks Yuki that's a very honest question.

Not too many years ago people didn't believe in Gorillas, Then they were proven to exist. Now most people believe in Gorillas.

When I was a drunk I didn't believe in God. In order for me to get sober they said I had too. I wanted sobriety. So I set out to look for proof that God existed. I found my proof and now I believe.

---

Tych2 posted:

---

I don't.. who is that? I thought that was John Belushi.

---

Sezyrrith posted:

---

No, most people KNOW gorillas exist. It's not a matter of belief any more, it's a matter of fact. Belief requires a lack of proof, by definition.

---

IMHO posted:

---

Scarne posted:

---

IMHO posted:

---

I will give you something to chew on, either everything is a coincidence or nothing is.

---

Everything is a coincidence. The human mind just loves pattern matching though so it draws connections out of things that aren't related.

A lot of what religious people say can't be coincidences requires God overriding the free will of someone else which is supposed to be a no-no.

---

There must be something to the pattern matching for it to not be washed out by evolution, kinda makes you think that those that don't use the pattern matching are handicapping themselves.

---

IMHO posted:

---

No, unless they are living with one in there home, it's still a belief.

You can not prove a Gorilla exists to me, you just believe it to be a fact or proof, just like I believe I have proof that God exists and I can never prove it to you.

---

Mastara posted:

---

IMHO i didnt know you believed in god.

---

Sezyrrith posted:

---

Gorillas aren't a belief, they're a fact, by definition. You can go find a gorilla, look at it and touch it, right now. Others have already done so. Your 'belief' or lack thereof in gorillas doesn't change that others are looking straight at one right this very second, or that they have a physical existence.

---

Mastara posted:

---

Some people arent as vocal as me. In person I only speak when asked or if it comes up. I have no shame in what I believe at all. I'm still growing in my faith but a far cry from a spiritual giant. Its great knowing I have other believers here. It doesnt seem like it very often. But hey they are out there somewhere

---

sweeny_comodore posted:

---

tell us exactly what we are supposed to be saved from?

---

IMHO posted:

---

Sezyrrith posted:

---

Gorillas aren't a belief, they're a fact, by definition. You can go find a gorilla, look at it and touch it, right now. Others have already done so. Your 'belief' or lack thereof in gorillas doesn't change that others are looking straight at one right this very second, or that they have a physical existence.

---

God is a fact. You are constitutionally against finding Him, so you will never truly look. I am with God right now. How much more proof do you need than that? I can't make you find for him.

---

Sezyrrith posted:

---

IMHO posted:

---

Sezyrrith posted:

---

Gorillas aren't a belief, they're a fact, by definition. You can go find a gorilla, look at it and touch it, right now. Others have already done so. Your 'belief' or lack thereof in gorillas doesn't change that others are looking straight at one right this very second, or that they have a physical existence.

---

God is a fact. You are constitutionally against finding Him, so you will never truly look. I am with God right now. How much more proof do you need than that? I can't make you find for him.

---

God is a belief. You can't pick up a God, or show me a God; you believe in God, so you feel that you are with him right now. You are not actually sitting next to a physical God. That's the difference between fact and belief.

---

IMHO posted:

---

Sezyrrith posted:

---

God is a belief. You can't pick up a God, or show me a God; you believe in God, so you feel that you are with him right now. You are not actually sitting next to a physical God. That's the difference between fact and belief.

---

It's apparent I can't change your beliefs.

---

IMHO posted:

---

sweeny_comodore posted:

---

tell us exactly what we are supposed to be saved from?

---

ourselves.

---

Z-Elder posted:

---

More than 75% of humanity accepts IMHOs view. Why do you want him to change and adopt a minority view?

---

Z-Elder posted:

---

More than 75% of humanity accepts IMHOs view. Why do you want him to change and adopt a minority view?

---

Sezyrrith posted:

---

Z-Elder posted:

---

More than 75% of humanity accepts IMHOs view. Why do you want him to change and adopt a minority view?

---

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't want anyone to change their belief system. I believe what I feel to be right; I expect most people do so. It's not my job to change anyone else's mind, they should decide for themselves.

My only dispute is the difference between fact and belief.

[Edit:]Speaking of facts, can you support your statement of 75% with a broad poll containing multiple countries, specifically China? Possibly the continent of Africa? I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure most people who believe in a Christian-esque God as described in the Bible live in the Americas and Europe, and the last poll I saw had a significantly lower showing than that as actually describing themselves as people of faith.

---

Z-Elder posted:

---

Sezyrrith posted:

---

Z-Elder posted:

---

More than 75% of humanity accepts IMHOs view. Why do you want him to change and adopt a minority view?

---

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't want anyone to change their belief system. I believe what I feel to be right; I expect most people do so. It's not my job to change anyone else's mind, they should decide for themselves.

My only dispute is the difference between fact and belief.

[Edit:]Speaking of facts, can you support your statement of 75% with a broad poll containing multiple countries, specifically China? Possibly the continent of Africa? I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure most people who believe in a Christian-esque God as described in the Bible live in the Americas and Europe, and the last poll I saw had a significantly lower showing than that as actually describing themselves as people of faith.

---

Wow. And all I said was: "More than 75% of humanity accepts IMHOs view."

---

Sezyrrith posted:

---

You made a claim, I asked for reference. That's it. I didn't insult you, or demand anything. It's a simple question, I'm just curious where you got 'more than 75% of humanity' from, no more and no less.

---

FAUXNEWS posted:

---

Fully 92 percent of Americans say they believe in God, 85 percent in heaven and 82 percent in miracles, according to the latest FOX News poll.

---

BubbleDude posted:

---

Coincidence did not get me from where I've been to where I am now.





And why do atheists always have to make it known to everyone that they are atheists?

---

Sezyrrith posted:

---

I live in the 'Bible belt'

---

BubbleDude posted:

---

I beg you to go to church?

---

Sezyrrith posted:

---

Z-Elder posted:

---

Sezyrrith posted:

---

[quote=Z-Elder]More than 75% of humanity accepts IMHOs view. Why do you want him to change and adopt a minority view?

---

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't want anyone to change their belief system. I believe what I feel to be right; I expect most people do so. It's not my job to change anyone else's mind, they should decide for themselves.

My only dispute is the difference between fact and belief.

[Edit:]Speaking of facts, can you support your statement of 75% with a broad poll containing multiple countries, specifically China? Possibly the continent of Africa? I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure most people who believe in a Christian-esque God as described in the Bible live in the Americas and Europe, and the last poll I saw had a significantly lower showing than that as actually describing themselves as people of faith.

---

Wow. And all I said was: "More than 75% of humanity accepts IMHOs view."

---

Z-Elder posted:

---

LOl no you just went into edits and all kind of countries and then started to define God as christian... Are you a Dawkins Witness? Will we be hearing a message from you that will convert IMHO and 75% of humanity to your minority belief system?

You can't google how many atheists there are? Hate to break it to you but You are a minority. Abnormal. IMHO on the other hand is normal.

---

RHWarrior posted:

---

Tbh I only make fun of Gawdbelievers on the Outpost!

In real life I don't want to hurt or send the general theist into breakdown to prove a point, much like I don't harass patients at a mental facility, or preschoolers, it's just heartless and has little result.

---

NuEM posted:

---

I'm not certain gorillas exist, but I know just the steps I have to take to find out if they exist. Like for example go to the zoo and watch them. Or travel to Africa and see them in the wild.

Would someone please be so kind and post a list of comparable steps regarding the verification of the existence of God? That would be sweet. Some of you must have such a list, because you know he is real.

---

Z-Elder posted:

---

Sezyrrith posted:

---

Z-Elder posted:

---

[quote=Sezyrrith][quote=Z-Elder]More than 75% of humanity accepts IMHOs view. Why do you want him to change and adopt a minority view?

---

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't want anyone to change their belief system. I believe what I feel to be right; I expect most people do so. It's not my job to change anyone else's mind, they should decide for themselves.

My only dispute is the difference between fact and belief.

[Edit:]Speaking of facts, can you support your statement of 75% with a broad poll containing multiple countries, specifically China? Possibly the continent of Africa? I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure most people who believe in a Christian-esque God as described in the Bible live in the Americas and Europe, and the last poll I saw had a significantly lower showing than that as actually describing themselves as people of faith.

---

Wow. And all I said was: "More than 75% of humanity accepts IMHOs view."

---

Halloweve posted:

---

The lady was not right in the head. Her behavior was filled with so much anger and hatred that made it painful to even watch. I feel very sorry for her in some ways. I can't even imagine living with so much wrath towards everything.

---

Tych2 posted:

---

What if he lives on another planet? Gps coordinates wouldn't help. You wouldn't be able to get there with our current tech.

What if he told people whom he thought was worthy to know where he was and that he was real and what if he was waiting until he felt you were worthy to hear him to make himself known to you?

huh?

---

NuEM posted:

---

Tych2 posted:

---

What if he lives on another planet? Gps coordinates wouldn't help. You wouldn't be able to get there with our current tech.

What if he told people whom he thought was worthy to know where he was and that he was real and what if he was waiting until he felt you were worthy to hear him to make himself known to you?

huh?

---

Well whatever it is, they know he exists so the evidence is probably not on another planet.

---

Tych2 posted:

---

What if he lives on another planet? Gps coordinates wouldn't help. You wouldn't be able to get there with our current tech.

What if he told people whom he thought was worthy to know where he was and that he was real and what if he was waiting until he felt you were worthy to hear him to make himself known to you?

huh?

---