Ravynmagi
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Just on time, the Windows 8 Consumer Preview is available for download.
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/consumer-preview
If you don't want to use the installer (chances are you don't want to install this on the computer you downloaded it on), you can get the ISO here.
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/iso
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Ookane
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See? Told you it would be the 29th 
Gizmodo, Engadget, Paul Thuttor and several pundits already had their review written and ready for release after the blackout. Seems well recieved so far.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/29/microsoft-windo ws-8-consumer-preview-detailed-impressions/
http://gizmodo.com/5889001/windows-8-consumer-preview-hands-on-no-g oing-back
http://www.winsupersite.com/article/wi ndows8/windows-8-consumer-preview-windows-8-consumer-preview-142335
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Ravynmagi
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I'm installing it now...
The install experience still needs some work. After putting in the DVD and booting from it, I see a small picture of a betta fish in the middle of the screen. And I'm staring at this betta fish for about 10 to 15 minutes without any indication that anything is happening. I almost rebooted thinking my DVD might be bad, but then something finally happened. I imagine an actual loading screen that pleads me to wait will replace this fish image later (hopefully).
You'll also need a Windows 8 key during the install (thought Windows 7 beta even allowed you to enter this afterwards). That Windows 8 setup program provides a key.
Install still in progress...
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Ravynmagi
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Starting to think I might actually skip this version. Ha....sigh.
PS. My complaint is the UI of course. It's gotten a tiny bit better. But still, combining a tablet and desktop UI... maybe someone can figure it out, but this is definitely not it.
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Ookane
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Definitely takes getting used to. Once you realize that the metro screen is the start menu, always opened it helps to make more sense.
Need and app? Start typing the name, no other keystroke needed and it will start working on the results as it takes you to the search screen.
Mousewheel scroll up/down moves the start screen left/right
Upper left corner, swipe (or click) down, and you get thumbnails of all open apps to choose to switch to
Lower left corner, left click toggles between desktop and metro, right click gives a large menu of old school applets (device manager, uninstall programs, run, computer management, etc - most of the control panel applets)
Upper and lower right corners (or Win - C) opens charms menu for metro options
Lower right click pans out for view of the entire metro start screen
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Marzuk
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Ravynmagi posted:
But still, combining a tablet and desktop UI... maybe someone can figure it out, but this is definitely not it.
Its that trend to make everything whizzbang flashy different neat, for some reason people fall for it. I hate bouncing animated icons, 3d scrolling windows, the "weee zoomed out here are 27 windows you can't read!" type effects. I don't need something covering half my screen. We need widgets like we need a second butthole. I honestly at this point imagine people with as many widgets as haphazardly piled as possible, just like IE toolbars for the people too stupid to avoid installing them. "Weee, a list is overwhelming, here have a bookshelf view in case you want to masturbate to the covers of your romance novels!" You know what, I DONT EVEN PUT REAL BOOKS ON A BOOKSHELF LIKE THAT BECAUSE ITS RETARDED. And inefficient as hell. I also don't bother with the folder thumbnail view.
Oh, but that transparent aeroglass feature was awesome for letting me see a blurry outline of something that looked like I smeared vasolene on my glasses! Yeah, lets keep that. Desktop composition is awesome, because I need my computer to use that much more electricity when I'm just browsing. This + shadows for my windows and mouse cursor make all the difference in my every day productivity!
/rant
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-Mithan-
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Actually, I like gadgets. I have 9 up on my second screen.
Note I said second screens. I wouldn't want them on a single screen.
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I survived to the end and got nothing out of it, but hey.
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Ravynmagi
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I would like Microsoft to better utilize something called "windows" in the UI. Kinda weird that Microsoft is going windowless with it's Metro UI and Start screen, while we see efforts in the Android community to evolve past the single screen restriction that tablets have, with things like Cornerstone and TouchWiz UX.
Touch and tablet friendly doesn't have to mean full screen only. They really should allow the option of running Metro style apps in windows and the Start screen really shouldn't take up the entire screen on a desktop.
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Ravynmagi
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Connecting to a non-broadcasting network was a bit of a chore...
First don't go to Start, Settings, Wireless. You can connect to broadcasting wireless networks there, but there is no way to manually connect to a non broadcasting network I could find.
Go to Start, Desktop.
Right click the wireless icon next to the clock.
Open Network and Sharing Center.
Click Set up a new connection or network.
Click Manually connect to a wireless network.
And then put in your router info like normal
There must be an easier way.
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heiromancerdrackus
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They have a lot of streamlining left to do if they think people are going to accept this new 'start screen'. I shouldn't have to go hunting for my settings.
I DO like the new app direction, though. The Metro styled apps blend brilliantly with the OS and are very functional. I do NOT like being forced to scroll horizontally for damn near everything though, holy crap.
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Ravynmagi
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heiromancerdrackus posted:
They have a lot of streamlining left to do if they think people are going to accept this new 'start screen'. I shouldn't have to go hunting for my settings.
I DO like the new app direction, though. The Metro styled apps blend brilliantly with the OS and are very functional. I do NOT like being forced to scroll horizontally for damn near everything though, holy crap.
Yeah, they fixed the scrolling problem with the Start screen. However scrolling is still a PITA inside the Metro apps like Vimeo. Was hoping it was going to be some sort of API fix that would also apply to all the apps, but doesn't seem to be the case.
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Ookane
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heiromancerdrackus posted:
They have a lot of streamlining left to do if they think people are going to accept this new 'start screen'. I shouldn't have to go hunting for my settings.
I DO like the new app direction, though. The Metro styled apps blend brilliantly with the OS and are very functional. I do NOT like being forced to scroll horizontally for damn near everything though, holy crap.
Agreed, but thankfully the up/down mouse wheel translates to left/right scroll on the page.
Out of curiosity, why are you hiding the SSID on your network?
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I installed it on my laptop using the win7->win8 upgrade option. It did not download many thing, but took forever and a day to install.. seriously, probably over 1 hour in total.. maybe 1.5 hrs. Rebooted about 5 times.
All this installation didn't leave me much time to play with it last night, but I'll use it as primary laptop OS for a while and write more once I have a good grasp. Superficial impressions here, deep thoughts later.
Anyway, once done I finally got in and was greeted with the Metro start menu. I got out of it, and lo and behold, the UI behind it is basically Win7 with sharper edges. Feels very weird and disjointed - the 2 interfaces have almost nothing in common. It is like the Metro is a patch they dragged over and used in only 1 instance in the whole OS.
You get thrown from a 2D, solid color, big block, simple Metro UI to a desktop with "fancy", shimmery, small-sized taskbar? Whaaat?
Start menu app icons are in metro style, but desktop icons, Taskbar icons are not, windows and windows drop-down menus are not....
They need to either re-vamp ALL windows and UI elements across the whole OS to have the solid color background and no borders like the blocks in the Metro UI, or change Metro to match the rest of the windows.
The inconsistency gave me a very sloppy, unprofessional feeling - kind of like early android UI - different elements have different styles. The "regular" windows UI was changed, but so little as to be negligible. It's like 2 teams worked on it and were not talking to each other but from afar, through fog, with hand gestures. Not good.
After I got to the desktop, I tried using the search tool to find Windows Update an some other programs.. well that part was sucky too - it searches everywhere but displays results in buckets. The default bucket is Apps, so of course Win Update was not there. I had to select the settings (i think) bucket to see it. I thought they said Metro UI will result in LESS clicks than before, what happened to that? Why does it not display them all on once screen?
It can certainly fit all results... if they have to be separated separate them by some line saying something like:
Apps-----------
<list of results>
Settings-------
<list of results>
, etc.
Don't make me click unnecessarily.
I still need to install a bunch of apps and see how easy it will be to find and launch them using the Metro start menu, but from what I saw I will need to do a lot more scrolling than in Win 7.
Starting Windows Explorer form the Metro ribbon icon was much slower than in Win 7. a couple of time it did not even start - I click on it, Metro UI goes away, and all I get is desktop - no Win Explorer. Is it such a heavy program to start? Blah.
When it started, another unpleasant surprise - Windows Explorer still defaults to the silly Libraries - there should be some way to let me choose where I want my Win Explorer to start without fiddling with registry and whatnot. Something like a first time use question, or an easily reachable option in the drop down menu or why not a right-click menu option "from now on start here when launched"?
Come on MS - get things right! People have been bitching about this since day 1 of Vista, websites have tutorials how to circumvent the default setting. A hint for you - when people want something to a point where it gets out of forum discussions and websites write tutorials about it - turn it into an official feature/option for the next version of your OS.
There are some good things too. For example, I do like the Windows button launching the metro ribbon no matter where you are.
I do like the copy/move windows now - the graphs, pause option and all copy windows being combined is long overdue. Will need to test that a bit more before I can say it works fine though.
A question for you guys: Can we make the metro ribbon taller so it fits more blocks on one screen?
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Sprawl-zero1eye-
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While some of the things take getting used to, and I get that, I find myself unable to say a single good thing about Windows 8 so far, other than I had fun getting it running on ESXi5.
The MetroUI will eventually be fine, I'm sure, and the uniformity across all of Microsoft's devices will improve user experience overall, especially for non-techs. The "hot corners" were annoying as heck in an RDC window, which made it equally annoying to access simple things.
Are we getting any underlining improvements that I can't see? I haven't really done my homework for sure, but based on the UI alone, I'm not compelled, yet.
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I'm digging Windows 8 SERVER though! Very noticeable improvements right off the bat... although MetroUI is awkward with a server, haha.
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I downloaded the server preview, but haven't installed it yet. I'm really surprised to hear Metro UI is enabled by default on the server edition though, Microsoft usually disables consumer UI's on server editions.
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Ravynmagi
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I had been playing around with Windows 8 on a spare laptop and easy to freak out over the Metro UI, but hard to really know how I could deal with it day to day in real world use. So I took the plunge, backed up my main computer's C drive and upgraded from Windows 7 to Windows 8.
Only had it a few hours so far.
I have all my daily apps already pinned to my Task bar, so I really don't need to flip back and forth to the Metro Start screen much. And I guess it hasn't been all that bad. The Task bar is also nice in that it extends to both monitors and the icons for apps will switch over to the other bar if you move the window to the other screen.
The Windows Store only has 78 apps. To me that's a surprisingly small number since the Developer Preview came out 5 months ago. Was hoping for a few more apps. Also seems Metro apps don't scale up well on my 30 inch monitor at all. Most apps only use about a third of my screen space and some apps use the top third of the screen, some use the middle third, and others use the bottom third. Along with that some apps I can scroll horizontally with the mouse wheel, others won't work with the mouse wheel but work with the left/right wheel tilt, and yet others won't scroll with the mouse at all, I'll have to use arrow keys on the keyboard or drag the scroll bar.
I wish the x86 desktop app icons that are pinned to the Start screen could look more Metro like. They stick out, have tiny icons compared to the rest and have their app names above the icons, instead of under the icons like the rest of the apps. And there are a number of other things Microsoft should do to help the Metro and Desktop UI's blend together a bit more. And as I mentioned before, would love to be able to set a Start screen wallpaper that matches my desktop.
Regarding my desktop applications, I've run into two problems so far...
NewsBin is a newsgroup reader app I use. There are filters that use drop down menus. When I click a dropdown menu in this app, I can't select any items in the menu, nothing happens. I turned on Windows 7 and the Vista compatibility, neither helped.
ZoomPlayer is a video player app. Running the Install Center to update codecs freezes up.
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Ravynmagi
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Argh! The inconsistency navigating in Metro apps is really getting annoying. Hope Microsoft can solve that.
For some reason I don't have the Metro version of IE when I did the upgrade from Windows 7. I just have the desktop version. It's not under all apps or anywhere I can find. Weird.
Another weird thing is my laptop will not go to sleep. Sleep is set to 30 minutes on AC power, but it's been well over an hour and it's still awake. Hmm.
I'm sure this is well documented somewhere I haven't read, but I just figured out how to close a Metro app. Go to the very top middle of the screen, click and drag down to the bottom of the screen, the app is now closed. And by the way dragging to the left or right sides will put the app into a side pane if you like.
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Ravynmagi
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I only lasted a day using Windows 8 Consumer Preview as my primary OS. The UI just feels to half-ass, couldn't stand it. Steve Ballmer might accomplish what Steve Jobs never could, that is making me buy a Mac.
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Marzuk
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Ravynmagi posted:
I only lasted a day using Windows 8 Consumer Preview as my primary OS. The UI just feels to half-ass, couldn't stand it. Steve Ballmer might accomplish what Steve Jobs never could, that is making me buy a Mac.
I'll switch to linux before I buy a mac.
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Tai-Daishar_MT
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I am a bit amused by the Mac hatred personally. Primarily because it seems so many forget, or simply do not know, that you are not required to use it as a "Mac-only" platform. I bought a new Macbook Pro last year for a few reasons.
Aluminum unibody construction is gorgeous and extremely well built.
Glass screens make the display very crisp and vibrant.
Battery life is amazing.
It has top shelf architecture (i7, Sandy Bridge, etc).
It is very slim and light making it exceptionally portable.
I can run any Intel-based OS I want.
A laptop that actually has resale value!
After owning a Macbook Pro, I will not be buying any other brand laptop until they can match Apples design and quality of construction. I am beyond tired of lame ass plastic boxes that can't stand up to business travel and look plain ugly. Their customer service has been ranked the best several times and I have personally used it once and found the experience refreshingly pleasant.
You are certainly not compelled to use a single OS on your Mac. I have OS X, Windows 7, and Backtrack Linux on mine. I use OS X for personal creative projects and app development. I use Windows for day to day business work. Finally, I use Backtrack Linux (running in a VM) for penetration testing as required. It is my experience that each OS offers its own Pros that serve to eliminate dealing with the others Cons. In other words, I have the best solution for whatever the task may be and simply can't understand why people insist on making it an all or nothing proposition. I can't imagine being bound to a single platform when it is so terribly simple to have the best of all worlds.
/shrug
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^agreed
Mac is just another line of computers, and Apple another company. No reason to love or hate them anymore than I love or hate Microsoft. It's all fun toys!!
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Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:
^agreed
Mac is just another line of computers, and blah, blah,blah...
There are many good reasons to hate Apple and Steve Jobs specifically. But, you can't talk sense into a zombie or people who like to pay way too much money for consumer products.
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For everyone that says it about Apple, we got people hating on Microsoft. Who will be the big company everyone hates next? We shall see!
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Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:
For everyone that says it about Apple, we got people hating on Microsoft. Who will be the big company everyone hates next? We shall see!
This is very true. And the Microsoft hating stems from bad behavior of the company...and M$ deserves every ounce of that as well.  In my opinion, it's the hateful business practices that cause mass amounts of people to vocalize malcontent.
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Ravynmagi
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Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:
For everyone that says it about Apple, we got people hating on Microsoft. Who will be the big company everyone hates next? We shall see!
It was Microsoft, then Apple, now I'm pretty sure it's Google's turn. 
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Ravynmagi posted:
Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:
For everyone that says it about Apple, we got people hating on Microsoft. Who will be the big company everyone hates next? We shall see!
It was Microsoft, then Apple, now I'm pretty sure it's Google's turn.
I never personally understood the apple hatred either. Sorta like the nvidia/ati argument. Waste of time. Nobody wins.
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Lannai posted:
Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:
For everyone that says it about Apple, we got people hating on Microsoft. Who will be the big company everyone hates next? We shall see!
This is very true. And the Microsoft hating stems from bad behavior of the company...and M$ deserves every ounce of that as well. In my opinion, it's the hateful business practices that cause mass amounts of people to vocalize malcontent.
I totally get vocalizing malcontent.
I just don't get applying that to the actual products unless we just don't want to buy anything at all.
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In many ways...not buying a company's product is the only recourse. Or more importantly...buying competing products creates competition and innovation.
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Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:
^agreed
Mac is just another line of computers, and Apple another company. No reason to love or hate them anymore than I love or hate Microsoft. It's all fun toys!!
But there is reason to dislike Apple other than them simply being Apple. I've disliked them since well before the iPod ever came out and started this whole Apple surge. It has to do with the utter closed source attitude that they have in regards to their OS. It's restrictive and, in the long run, limits what you can do with your computer.
There is a hierarchy of openness when it comes to operating systems.
Linux = all the way open.
Solaris = not quite as open.
Windows = about half and half. You can access certain system processes, but not others.
Mac = completely closed.
Mac = bad (imo)
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Tai-Daishar_MT
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Yes, Apple is a closed eco-system but there is a very obvious and glaring market for people that WANT that very thing. The saying at Apple, in relation to their products, is that they just work. Well, to be fair, this is true. They intentionally keep the system closed so they can ensure that everything works as designed. All of their products are designed, tested, and supported in this very fashion and it makes for an enjoyable end-user experience for those folks that want their technology to work simply and reliably without the need for them to have to learn about how to do anything technical at all. We all have sisters, brothers, mothers, fathers, grandparents, et al that are not technically inclined in the least. Hand them an Apple product and they happily wander off doing what it is they want. These people have no need for their tech toys to do anything other than the typical tasks like web surfing, watching movies/videos, email, and playing around with family photos.
There are other systems for the more tech savvy. Folks like many of us here that are not adverse at all to diving into things like Registries and Config files. Many of us NEED to have control over our systems as we do those more atypical things (or want greater control over the typical things) so we tend to flock to the Open systems.
I have never understood why people can't understand this and resort to hating one company over the other for not catering to their whims when they have always had the option to simply use the platform best suited to their needs. Most of us appreciate options as they give us flexibility, that some hate this is mind-boggling 
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Marzuk
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^
TLDR: Apple is for people who want shiny appliances.
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Quazimortal
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I would never buy Apple for the simple reason that they overcharge for their products. I own exactly zero Apple products.
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Quazimortal posted:
I would never buy Apple for the simple reason that they overcharge for their products. I own exactly zero Apple products.
I think Apple has improved there. The iPad for only $500 and that Macbook Air for only $1,000 are both pretty nice values compared to competing products in those classes.
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Marzuk posted:
I have no idea what I am talking about.
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Sprawl-zero1eye-
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I have all kinds of tech gadgets, some Apple, some not. They are all cool and useful, each in their own ways.
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Marzuk posted:
^
TLDR: Apple is for people who want shiny appliances.
i read it, and it boils down to
"Apple: for old people, and non-techies"
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Ravynmagi posted:
Quazimortal posted:
I would never buy Apple for the simple reason that they overcharge for their products. I own exactly zero Apple products.
I think Apple has improved there. The iPad for only $500 and that Macbook Air for only $1,000 are both pretty nice values compared to competing products in those classes.
I disagree, I don't find those prices reasonable at all.
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Quazimortal posted:
Ravynmagi posted:
Quazimortal posted:
I would never buy Apple for the simple reason that they overcharge for their products. I own exactly zero Apple products.
I think Apple has improved there. The iPad for only $500 and that Macbook Air for only $1,000 are both pretty nice values compared to competing products in those classes.
I disagree, I don't find those prices reasonable at all.
Is that because you think tablets and ultrabooks are too expensive in general or just Apple? Because the tablets cheaper than the iPad are pretty crappy and are being discounted for a reason. Those at the same price often have some extra features, but still poor build quality compared to the Apple.
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These are hard discussions to have as Apple hatred tends to cloud things. If that isn't the case here, then you really have to consider the quality of Apple products. They actually design and manufacture their products to a higher quality than just about every one of their rivals. My Macbook Pro is absolutely gorgeous. Aluminum uni-body with a beautiful glass screen. The quality is just another magnitude above the typical cheap plastic used by so many others. Consider also the resale value they retain, there is actually a very healthy Apple used market out there. Try that with a plastic Dell and see how far you get.
Some also appreciate the value of being able to run multiple OS's. There are things I prefer doing in OS X so that also adds to the value of the computer. It runs Windows every bit as well as non-Apple machines so having choices is a good thing that some will pay extra for.
Are Apple products sold at a premium? Yes, of course.
Are they worth the price? If you value quality design and construction and would like to be able to recoup some small portion when you upgrade, yes.
Some will not place any value on this and fortunately they have other options. In the end, the consumer wins.
And just for you Marzuk, the TLDR version. Apple sucks, only morons buy from them!
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Ravynmagi posted:
Is that because you think tablets and ultrabooks are too expensive in general or just Apple? Because the tablets cheaper than the iPad are pretty crappy and are being discounted for a reason. Those at the same price often have some extra features, but still poor build quality compared to the Apple.
I guess to be fair it's because I think tablets and ultrabooks are too expensive in general lol.
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vn_jurojin
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Tai-Daishar_MT posted:
These are hard discussions to have as Apple hatred tends to cloud things. If that isn't the case here, then you really have to consider the quality of Apple products. They actually design and manufacture their products to a higher quality than just about every one of their rivals. My Macbook Pro is absolutely gorgeous. Aluminum uni-body with a beautiful glass screen. The quality is just another magnitude above the typical cheap plastic used by so many others. Consider also the resale value they retain, there is actually a very healthy Apple used market out there. Try that with a plastic Dell and see how far you get.
Some also appreciate the value of being able to run multiple OS's. There are things I prefer doing in OS X so that also adds to the value of the computer. It runs Windows every bit as well as non-Apple machines so having choices is a good thing that some will pay extra for.
Are Apple products sold at a premium? Yes, of course.
Are they worth the price? If you value quality design and construction and would like to be able to recoup some small portion when you upgrade, yes.
Some will not place any value on this and fortunately they have other options. In the end, the consumer wins.
And just for you Marzuk, the TLDR version. Apple sucks, only morons buy from them!
Since I dislike apple people tend to lump me in with your typical apple/mac hater, but this simply isn't the case. As I said in my previous post I came to my dislike of apple while they were still an inconsequential computer company that barely rated one shelf at the very back of most best buy or compusa stores. It had nothing to do with how popular they were or how people tend to hate the popular trending thing. I dislike them because, as a software developer, they can my life hell at any given moment due to the closed nature of their OS.
There are 3 smart phones and 2 tablets in my house currently. An iPad 1, an iPhone 4, an iPhone 4s, a HTC evo, and Samsung Galaxy tab 10.1 (the new one). They're ALL good products. Is the iPhone build quality so much better than the EVO? No. Is it stronger due to being metal? Yes. Does it feel more solid? I can't really tell if one feels more sturdy than the other, they've all been put through the paces and both work fine. Does that make a bit of difference to someone who takes care of their stuff? Not a bit.
I also have 5 computers running, 3 desktops that I built and 2 laptops, one HP and one Toshiba. Does the lack of metal in the design hinder anything at all? Again, not a bit. If you drop a laptop, it's not the outside that's going to break, it's the inside stuff, so what is around the thing doesn't make a lick of difference unless you run over it with a car. In which case, yes, the mac is better.
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No problem, we simply disagree on our interpretations of quality. Nothing wrong with that as we both have the option to purchase the product best matching our needs/desires. Win/Win in my book!
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I never noticed apple having better build quality over others. Apple has had as many issues as anyone else. Some of which has lead to some funny comments from apple even though they were serious. Good entertainment.
Apple tends to focus more on "visual" designs. The downside is that sometimes that can lead to quality issues in couple of cases. Though generally not glaring issues most of the time since these things to get tested out. But it can happen. Apple is not alone in that either, they just get more press (also because of apple statements).
Appeal <> Quality
That is the best way I can put it, though they are not exclusive to each other.
I have not owned an apple product for a very long time. Mostly because I would have to put in little extra effort to not use itunes on it . Right now I have a cowon mp3 which I liked so much more then comparable ipods. It was not even a contest. And I have a 4g phone.
I would like a tablet, but waiting for win8 to see how that stacks up vs ios vs android.
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Haven't messed with many Apple products. But those that I have, they've used high quality materials, have an rather intelligent design, and felt built to last to me more, so than products from ASUS, Dell, HP, etc.
Also what helps Apple's quality image is they don't really mess around with lower end items, which also contributes to the image of them being over priced.
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Tai-Daishar_MT posted:
I <3 Apple
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Not really but reasoned debate seems infinitely beyond your grasp so you run along and think what you will.
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Sprawl-zero1eye-
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Lannai posted:
In many ways...not buying a company's product is the only recourse. Or more importantly...buying competing products creates competition and innovation.
Of course, but my point was, if they are all "bad", then what? We have our choice between Google, Apple, and Microsoft. I hear people rant about all three of recent.
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Ravynmagi posted:
Haven't messed with many Apple products. But those that I have, they've used high quality materials, have an rather intelligent design, and felt built to last to me more, so than products from ASUS, Dell, HP, etc.
Also what helps Apple's quality image is they don't really mess around with lower end items, which also contributes to the image of them being over priced.
It's not just an image of overpriced. The $1000 MacBook mentioned earlier has the same hardware specs as a < $500 laptop for nearly all other brands. The reason it works is the same reason an xbox 360 and a ps3 play games better than a pc with far better equipment, the software is designed specifically for that hardware. The catch on that though is that as Windows progresses it's drivers are getting better.
With each subsequent OS after XP (yes, even Vista after the first few months of horrible driver messes) have been pigeon holing hardware manufacturers into building to certain specs. In the near future, probably 2 or 3 releases from now, it won't matter what hardware you have if you buy from a company that aims to fit Microsoft's mold (and the vast majority do). The OS and hardware will mesh together every bit as well as an Apple and it's prebuilt machines.
Yeah, it kinda sucks that we have to wait that long, but that's the drawback of having an open market, but it also has its benefits.
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Comparing a regular cheap thick heavy laptop to a Macbook Air is an extremely poor comparison.
A big reason for the higher price of the Macbook Air and Intel Ultrabooks is the very compact slim size, the ultra low power components. Specially constructed cases to dissipate heat, etc. Comparable Ultrabooks like the Zenbook cost about $1000 or more as well. There are a few cheaper Ultrabooks under $1000, but some of them are boarderline netbooks in my opinion.
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vn_jurojin
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Ravynmagi posted:
Comparing a regular cheap thick heavy laptop to a Macbook Air is an extremely poor comparison.
A big reason for the higher price of the Macbook Air and Intel Ultrabooks is the very compact slim size, the ultra low power components. Specially constructed cases to dissipate heat, etc. Comparable Ultrabooks like the Zenbook cost about $1000 or more as well. There are a few cheaper Ultrabooks under $1000, but some of them are boarderline netbooks in my opinion.
Compare to any mac, not just the air. Compare the $1200 macbook pro to other laptops of exact or higher specs to see the prices. My point still stands, they're very, very expensive for the hardware you get. But, to be fair, ALL ultrabooks are too expensive for what you get at the moment, but give that a year or so and we'll be right back to the same thing; Mac with the most expensive gear for the same specs.
*edit* This doesn't apply to tablets though, and may not apply to computers in the future if app markets everyone seems to be migrating towards really take off. They're selling they're new iPad at a massive loss in the hopes that the app store brings in the profit. Which it most definitely will.
*another edit* And weren't you saying that $100 for an extra 16GB of storage is too much in another thread? How does it add up that you say that in one thread then say it's ok to charge an arm and a leg for minus 2 pounds (plus a lot of other goodies) for a thin laptop?
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There is more to specs than just memory, CPU, and hard drive though. There are certainly a slew of Core i5, 4GB, laptops with 500GB hard drives that are probably half the price of a Macbook Pro. But they cut the corners in a lot of areas. The cheap laptop will probably have a smaller battery, fewer ports, no SDXC or Thunderbolt, no aluminum unibody, and so forth.
Apple is not taking any loss on the iPad. The hardware alone is still quite profitable, even at the $500 starting price. Apple buys in very large bulk.
And material cost estimate of the iPad 3 put the 16GB memory at $16. And that $1 per gigabyte sounds about right. I suspect Apple gets that even cheaper, so the price is probably on the high end. The $100 price to double that to 32GB is kinda annoying to me. It's not an Apple thing, everyone does this and everyone annoys me when they do it.
Ultrabooks are expensive because this form factor is still relatively new, at least it's current thinness of it. Intel has created a $300 million investment fund to help companies develop better designs for affordable Ultrabooks. Because Intel definitely realizes that at $1000, it's still too expensive to gain mass appeal. People don't really need a super thin laptop that badly. But if they get Ultrabooks down to $500, then suddenly people will go crazy for them. But they are still a ways from that. There are some $700 ultrabooks, but they are kinda lame so far.
So unlike the $100 for 16GB of flash memory that is just robbery. The $1000 ultrabooks is what it is because they just can't make them much cheaper yet.
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vn_jurojin posted:
They're selling they're new iPad at a massive loss in the hopes that the app store brings in the profit.
I don't know where you get your info from but it is seriously flawed. I'll give you one link but rest assured, there are several others echoing the data in this one.
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/03/16/high_cost_of_new_ipad_components_drive_down_profit_margins.html
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Tai-Daishar_MT posted:
Not really but reasoned debate seems infinitely beyond your grasp so you run along and think what you will.
Responding to idiots with more than a sentence is rarely a good use of time.
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Tai-Daishar_MT posted:
vn_jurojin posted:
They're selling they're new iPad at a massive loss in the hopes that the app store brings in the profit.
I don't know where you get your info from but it is seriously flawed. I'll give you one link but rest assured, there are several others echoing the data in this one.
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/03/16/high_cost_of_new_ipad_components_drive_down_profit_margins.html
Yeah, that was a mistaken assumption on my part. So many things are sold that way I just figured with the great display and what not it would cost more than $500 to make.
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Marzuk posted:
Tai-Daishar_MT posted:
Not really but reasoned debate seems infinitely beyond your grasp so you run along and think what you will.
Responding to idiots with more than a sentence is rarely a good use of time.
Good idea, the single sentence bit I mean, you really seem incapable of more than that.
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Tai-Daishar_MT posted:
Marzuk posted:
Tai-Daishar_MT posted:
Not really but reasoned debate seems infinitely beyond your grasp so you run along and think what you will.
Responding to idiots with more than a sentence is rarely a good use of time.
Good idea, the single sentence bit I mean, you really seem incapable of more than that.
Here folks is a shining example of how VN became a cesspool.
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I'd disagree. You'd have to look in the mirror to get a better look at the reason.
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Fidenian
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