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Topic: PBAoE Class
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DukkmanDrakke
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I have another question...
Is there a reason nearly all pbaoe classes I see on Gaheris are Spiritmasters? Just because their the coolest or is there something else about a SM that is desirable that the others dont have. I was planning on doing a Chanter since they get the heat debuff which would help all the tics out there. But I already have a SM that I just havent really developed yet, so that would be a little easier (but not much).
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sauvi
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PBAoE Class
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People use spiritmaster's the most because the spirit champion pet has a constant intercept ability on you, so if your blocker misses a hit, the pet will take it for you if he's close enough. He only takes melee, no range or magic hits, but its still nice to have that second layer of protection on heavy hitting bosses. Some people use the enchanter because they believe it does better pbaoe damage in keeps, but the drawback is your pet doesnt take any hits for you, you have to rely solely on your blocker. Most people like the feeling of having the double protection. it's really more of personal preference.
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spy33
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i would run an enchanter for speed, being able to debuff my own baseline nuke and focus pulling. if i had ran 4 toons instead of 3 i would have had a SM for the intercept. plus enchanter pbaoe blinds you
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robbie1687
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Subject:
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The main advantage, to my mind, is the spiritmaster's aoe str-con debuff. It increases damage by 20%.
The way I use the spell is to set up my keyboard with four qbinds next to each other on a row of keys in this order: target nearest, face, aoe debuff, pbaoe. Then I drum four fingers on those keys in one motion. That casts the debuff and pbaoe together. It's sounds complicated but it's very easy.
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Saxona
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Subject:
PBAoE Class
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Both Enchanter and Spiritmaster are great classes. Personally, I use SMs for keeps and pretty much anything to do with mass pulling. For power leveling, I use warlock (endless pbae). For everything else, I highly recommend Enchanter. Enchanter has the most *useful* PvE utility for a caster, with SM in a close second. Heat debuff for yourself and heretics to small man high end encounters, focus damage shield to small man old school high end encounters, pbae to mass pull when needed, speed if you don't have a bard, ML9 pet, again for high end encounters, but also keeps and other uses. Not to mention the pet heals itself, drawing agro off others, which is very useful when you're in a sticky situation.
But like I said, both classes are amazing for pve, and I'd recommend doing Enchanter first, and when you can afford it, finish off the SM as well.
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Aliciaday
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Subject:
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I think it's actually personal preference. I run a chanter. I like the choices of pets better.
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Mentalburn
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I use a wizard because it's awesomeness!
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menial
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Subject:
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I like both, but for efficiency I prefer SM. They have the highest delve pbaoe, they get pet intercept, and with a frostalf you can have decent dex and really good piety (casting stat for mid). When you start casting a luri chanter may cast faster but when mobs miss you more (because of block and pet intercept) you start to see the SM shine. Plus it's spirit damage and more mobs are weak to spirit damage than any other type of damage in general.
The only big drawback is a SM has to choose between focus and pbaoe. If you want both then go chanter, otherwise I would say SM.
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Siolith
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Subject:
PBAoE Class
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robbie1687 posted:
The main advantage, to my mind, is the spiritmaster's aoe str-con debuff. It increases damage by 20%.
This
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PasswordLLOTH
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Subject:
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menial posted:
The only big drawback is a SM has to choose between focus and pbaoe. If you want both then go chanter, otherwise I would say SM.
and sm has to gimp its pbaoe damage if it wants to debuff its own damage type
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menial
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Subject:
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I think the "aoe" str/con debuff is way more effective than the single target resistance debuff of a chanter. It's instant, and it's aoe and the amount of con it drops equates to much faster kills than what the chanter's single target debuff adds.
I give the chanter's single target debuff as much credit as any other classes (which there are plenty of others that get em'). It can be great in special circumstances but it's not something worth using all the time and with so many chanters people make it beyond useless in pve because everyone keeps casting it at the mob over and over, which just shortens the duration by half each time one lands, resulting in very, very small periods of effectiveness. that's just me though.
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PasswordLLOTH
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Subject:
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Know what has very crappy effectiveness? Str con debuff that's what. Once the mob takes any damage it has a much more diminished effect . Know what you can apply over and over and over again for 1.4k pre crit pbaoes? Debuffs that's what.
The best damage in this game is caster damage hands down and for you to say that a spell which significantly increases that damage is less effective than a str con debuff is beyond retarded. You've just gone full retard bro.
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Siolith
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Subject:
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Actually you are wrong Pass. Emasculate Strength not only decreases the constitution (and hence the hit points) of the mob(s) in question, it also increases dmg done to those mobs while in effect by an average of 20.1%-22.1%. Don't ask me WHY it does becuase I truely don't know. It shouldn't, but it does. I have tested this quite a lot and whether you want to believe it or not, it's true. The following is an article I posted after doing some testing on it on both live mobs and the test mobs on Pend.
http://www.gaheris.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=472
I'm not saying that the resist debuffs are bad or not effective, but the truth is that the Sm Str/con debuff ( as well as others that get it such as Sorc, ect.) is quite effective and stacks up to alot of extra dmg.
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menial
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Subject:
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PasswordLLOTH posted:
Know what has very crappy effectiveness? Str con debuff that's what. Once the mob takes any damage it has a much more diminished effect . Know what you can apply over and over and over again for 1.4k pre crit pbaoes? Debuffs that's what.
The best damage in this game is caster damage hands down and for you to say that a spell which significantly increases that damage is less effective than a str con debuff is beyond retarded. You've just gone full retard bro.
Meh... it's a difference of opinion about a dead game.
I disagree, oh well.
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Asber
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Subject:
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The Str/Con debuff increases damage for the same reason buffs make your pet near invincible: attribute buffs/debuffs work differently on mobs than players. Specifically, they add to or reduce the mob's ABS and resist values. In the case of your buffed pet, that means less damage. In the case of the debuffed mob, it means more damage. If you can get it to land the instant AE dex/qui debuff in Darkness would help as well.
Also, the intercept pet has a nasty habit of intercepting before your tank's shield has a chance to block for you. So unless your tank often faces the wrong direction, what intercept really does for you is make you recast your pet a lot for no reason.
Useful: Guard=>PBT=>Intercept=>You.
Reality: Intercept=>Guard=>PBT=>You.
Will the pet take some hits that you otherwise would have? Yeah. But not enough to justify recasting him over and over.
In general though, SM > Chanter (especially if your group has another speed buff). The Chanter wins for doing epic mobs with small groups where they can either focus pull or heat debuff for a Tic.
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PasswordLLOTH
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Subject:
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I had no idea stat debuffs increased casted damage.
My point still stands that resist Debuffs are more effective than stat Debuffs though it's easier to aoe stat debuff for a large group.
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menial
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Subject:
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Asber posted:
The Str/Con debuff increases damage for the same reason buffs make your pet near invincible: attribute buffs/debuffs work differently on mobs than players. Specifically, they add to or reduce the mob's ABS and resist values. In the case of your buffed pet, that means less damage. In the case of the debuffed mob, it means more damage. If you can get it to land the instant AE dex/qui debuff in Darkness would help as well.
Also, the intercept pet has a nasty habit of intercepting before your tank's shield has a chance to block for you. So unless your tank often faces the wrong direction, what intercept really does for you is make you recast your pet a lot for no reason.
Useful: Guard=>PBT=>Intercept=>You.
Reality: Intercept=>Guard=>PBT=>You.
Will the pet take some hits that you otherwise would have? Yeah. But not enough to justify recasting him over and over.
In general though, SM > Chanter (especially if your group has another speed buff). The Chanter wins for doing epic mobs with small groups where they can either focus pull or heat debuff for a Tic.
In regards to the first bold statement:
That makes a lot of sense to me in retrospect. A friend and I had tested the str/con debuffs and noticed significant damage increase, but when I used a similar aoe debuff that didn't affect con the same extra damage remained.
To the second:
I've found that a group heal every now and then, pet heals (if your power is not a problem), and ML9 go a long way to eradicate my pet being recast except in extreme battles, in which case I'm glad it took the hits and not me lol.
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kobenator
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Subject:
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the stats effecting resists hasnt always been that way. i was always under the impression that mobs have resists and absorb but no stats. when you buff up a pet it still gets raped by magic damage so the stat buffs/debuffs bolstering or weakening resists doesnt make sense.
is this something added in the past 2 or 3 years?
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Asber
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Subject:
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kobenator posted:
the stats effecting resists hasnt always been that way. i was always under the impression that mobs have resists and absorb but no stats. when you buff up a pet it still gets raped by magic damage so the stat buffs/debuffs bolstering or weakening resists doesnt make sense.
is this something added in the past 2 or 3 years?
It's been this way forever. It's why a chanter could focus pull Galladoria in the pre-ToA days: The buffs made the pet near invincible, and a cleric heal proc and menty HoT did the rest.
Your impression is correct so far as I know. The mob (and pet) has no stats, just ABS, resists, and hits. Every stat debuff reduces the ABS and resists, even a Str debuff. If that sounds retarded, keep in mind we're talking about Mythic's coding.
As for why your pet still gets raped by magic, that's because it is level 44 and the thing casting on it is probably level 56+. Even with ML9 or Juggernaut, Mythic (wisely, for once) leaves the pet's level for calculating magic resists at 44. If they didn't do this, ML9 pets would be even bigger and more unholy terrors in RvR than they already are.
Think of it this way: Take two toons with the same number of hit points, but one is level 44th and one is 50th. Give them both 23% resist to cold from gear (where the 44th toon tops out), add in a red cold resist buff so they are at 47% cold resist. Now take them to Glenlock and let them get repeatedly cold nuked. I guaruntee the 44th toon dies first, even with the same resists and hit points.
The closer to the pet's level the magic-casting mob is, the less noticeable this effect will be.
Finally (and this is purely a guess) your pet likely starts with an ABS value because of it's 'armor', but probably does NOT have any magic resists to speak of. So when you buff it's ABS up to 75%, it's magic resists are probably still down below 50%.
The SM has the AE Str/Con debuff, the baseline Suppression Str debuff, and if they can get them to land the Darkness spec Dex/Qui and baseline Dex debuffs to all stack up and reduce a mob's ABS/resists. Of course there is the small problem where using all 4 is both time consuming and a power hog.
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Rastafriarmon
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Subject:
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I play solo usually.. no bot.. and i really like the ice wiz.. when running scared i hit the aoe snare that works most of the time then pick off the bad things or run outta range (whichever is the better part of valor.. up to judgement)..
plus the fact that his single target ice damage is a nice debuff as well.
Fer keeps in groups he has represented fairly well.. no complaints that i have heard and i encourage critiques.. as long as they are real 
fun stuff 
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WalterzRockz
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Fer keeps in groups he has represented fairly well.. no complaints that i have heard and i encourage critiques.. as long as they are real
[/quote]
Wizzy's are fine, excepting Seige and no pet. If you have enough players in group, you don't need the ML 9 pet to get through Walls/doors. If you need a pet, then leave wizzy home.
Been running an extra SM with our guild keep groups. It's specced full dark. If you have a group orientated group running a Dark SM is rather sick damage. Debuffs Body/Bains, Spirit/SM's or Energy/Chanter. Simply put; a dedicated debuffer is really overpowered. SM doesn't need a blocker and can free cast. Once everything is debuffed, including lord, the PBAoE is hitting so damn hard that the Dark SM can't peel even with LT, but unless you going in with Bain you stupid for casting that.
Secondarily, you have a second ML 9 pet and another CT so cruisin' through the 40 seal keeps there is never a issue waiting for a CT to be up.
So if you have to add something besides a warden to your keep group, my vote is for Dark SM, or even a Cabby if you don't mind using up power casting Baseline damage spells. Sadly Cabby debuffs are in it's least useful line, but you still get a fat man, and they are sexy!
Seriously, having a Dark SM assist the PBAoER is really nice, the damage is over the top.
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Rastafriarmon
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I have a 50 supp sm and 50 mana chanter.. neither is far in ml's but haven't broken them out for a long time but that is easily remedied.. they are low rr atm but can easily get them to rr5 but any higher would be taking away from the toons i chosen to concentrate on (once again.. mostly solo due to time constraints or honey do's.. half the time i'm on is afk.. lol)
Is rr5 high enough to relevant? ice wiz is 8l5 or 9.. and was working on getting him to 10 but where he is at is great fer farming draks in the lab and has been nice fer the occasional keep group as well.. Thoughts?
Thanks in advance Walterz
Edit: just checked and SM is 5L1 but chanter is only 3L1.. and if for normal keep group where ml9 pet is needed would i want to change my only supp sm to darkness? i guess in that case i would just bring chanter?
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menial
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I have a chanter, charm sm, and supp sm above rr5. I have brought both the chanter and supp sm to keep groups. The charm sm has been declined by guild keep groups, but both the chanter and supp sm were requested. I don't know if that really speaks about the classes or the guild lol.
I should mention that a friend and I would run two toons each and we took the charm sm with a cleric buffed drinker from agramon (level 49) and using yellow focus raped a ton of low keeps and even a few mid range ones. So it's not like the charm sm with ML9 isn't useful, but 2 people playing 4 toons isn't the same as a full keep group.
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WalterzRockz
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IMHO RR 5 is high enough.
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kobenator
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i remember combat logs showing the effects of resists. this should be really easy to post a ss of. try to get one that doesnt use con buff or debuff.
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