reesescups
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Big Government? Obama Has 273,000 Fewer Federal Employees Than Reagan
Running the provided numbers from here, the actual difference is 272,000 (excluding Military), if you include Military Obama has 846,000 less than Reagan...
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ZigmundZag
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Reagan's civil servants don't count. They all believed in America, Jesus and helped end the Cold War.
That said, I do believe state and municipal employee counts are up (by more than the difference) over the same time period.
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reesescups
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ZigmundZag posted:
Reagan's civil servants don't count. They all believed in America, Jesus and helped end the Cold War.
That's ok, I doubt they counted Al Queada under Reagan as well... It all equals out...
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Who needs a govt when you've got a bank....
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I'm sure that includes the programs foisted onto the states...
And the skyrocketing number of regulations placed on the back of business compliance officers, with their costs...
I'm still waiting for fiscal 'liberals' to understand all that lip service about a benefit of government being an increase in good government jobs contributing to society is ALSO just that... lip service.
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reesescups
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That's twice it's been mentioned. Does anyone have source info for state employee numbers?
I would hope that overall the number is down - but even if it's equal or slightly higher, I would think at the end of the day we could agree that local is better than federal...
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Lyken-P
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Who are the people that were saying the government was smaller in Reagan's time?
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What was it at the beginning of his term and at the end?
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reesescups
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Tych2 posted:
What was it at the beginning of his term and at the end?
Reagan?
1980
Excluding Military: 2,875,000
Including Military: 4,965,000
1988
Excluding Military: 3,113,000
Including Military: 5,289,000
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reesescups posted:
Big Government? Obama Has 273,000 Fewer Federal Employees Than Reagan
Running the provided numbers from here, the actual difference is 272,000 (excluding Military), if you include Military Obama has 846,000 less than Reagan...
You're pointing the "BIG" sign at the wrong government attribute. Numbers are less a factor thanks to technology. I mean, McDonalds is big numbers wise.
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Something isn't right with the numbers you posted. I guess I will have to look at them myself. Bastard making me work 
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reesescups
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illmyrin posted:
reesescups posted:
Big Government? Obama Has 273,000 Fewer Federal Employees Than Reagan
Running the provided numbers from here, the actual difference is 272,000 (excluding Military), if you include Military Obama has 846,000 less than Reagan...
You're pointing the "BIG" sign at the wrong government attribute. Numbers are less a factor thanks to technology. I mean, McDonalds is big numbers wise.
Are you bitching about improvements in efficiency?
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ZigmundZag
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I can't find a nice clean chart, but if you look at the US Census website you can find that the FTE for state employees was about 3.8 Million in 1992 and is almost 4.4 million in 2010.
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reesescups
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ZigmundZag posted:
I can't find a nice clean chart, but if you look at the US Census website you can find that the FTE for state employees was about 3.8 Million in 1992 and is almost 4.4 million in 2010.
This is good info, I imagine it's got to be somewhere, someone has had to break this down...
edit: http://www.census.gov/govs/apes/
/digging now
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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It's on the US Census site in a mass of data tables, for state and local, going back to 1992. But I'm not going to spend a couple hours assembling them and figuring it out.
edit -- yes, there, I see you just found it.
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The other thing to consider is the increase in state employees vs. population. If you consider the US population went from around 250 million to ~ 300 million in that same time the % of people employed by state governments was relatively unchanged or slightly improved.
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reesescups
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wow - I am sure there must be some 'tweaks' to the data that need normalization but just raw numbers...
1992 - Total State Employees: 3,835,982
2012 - Total State Employees: 10,965,982
Holy Eff!!!
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It's funny when people manipulate numbers to try and fool people.
STOP IT!! 
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More Government then, than now?
More in the 80's when Reagan fired the air traffic controllers? When we didn't have TSA armies enmasse? When there wasn't such a thing as Homeland security?
I am having a hard time believing that.
Possible that some elements were shifted from fed level to state offices?
I know the revamped welfare reform restructured a whole framework of jobs, not sure the specifics of their reporting authority however.
Good discussion tho
EDIT: ok, Reese found the hidey hole of state employees while I was posting. That makes *much* more sense now. 
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reesescups
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Tych2 posted:
It's funny when people manipulate numbers to try and fool people.
You mean the OP thing? It's not manipulation. On a Federal Level there are less than there were before.
As pointed out more responsibilities were pushed to the states and as we have seen that increased the number of State Employees (Drastically at that!). This would be considered a decentralization. Isn't that a good thing?
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Make sure you're comparing apples to apples. My numbers were based off FTE, not employee counts. Looks like you mixed the FTE count with the total employee count there, but I might be wrong.
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reesescups
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ZigmundZag posted:
Make sure you're comparing apples to apples. My numbers were based off FTE, not employee counts. Looks like you mixed the FTE count with the total employee count there, but I might be wrong.
Yeah - I just grabbed the totals from the 1992 table and the latest available table. Like I said there might be some tweaking needed to normalize (prolly what you are talking about with whatever FTE is, Full Time Employee's?. If you mean Full Time Employees, then that is apples to apples...)
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FTE = full time equivalency. That's the baseline for comparing headcount of all part & full-time employees.
I took a peek at the local employee data as well but it's not laid out quite as nicely. If I had more time I'd download everything and make a mini-analysis of it.
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reesescups
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reesescups posted:
wow - I am sure there must be some 'tweaks' to the data that need normalization but just raw numbers...
1992 - Total State Employees: 3,835,982
2012 - Total State Employees: 10,965,982
Holy Eff!!!
Ok just pulled the data again to research more about the FTE thing. Now I am thinking it's Full Time Equivalent...
1992: 3,835,982
2012: 4,377,777
So not too much of an increase, but more than offsetting federal 'decreases'. Not even sure where that 10 Million number came from now that I am looking at the data again...
There is another layer to the onion as well - These are state numbers, they also have 'local' data. Digging that up next.
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reesescups
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Right away I see that previously I pulled the state data from the local data...
anyway - numbers
FTE
1993: 9,552,282
2012: 12,203,840
Shrug - no easy excel for 1992... But there is for 1993...
I never realized there were that many 'local' government employees... But it is nice to see the larger numbers being local, then state, then federal... Increases in Local and State, decreases in Federal.
Is this not a good trend?
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Tych2
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Was that the intent of the thread? To show that government workers are being moved from the fed to local and to emphasize how good it is?
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Tych2 posted:
Was that the intent of the thread? To show that government workers are being moved from the fed to local and to emphasize how good it is?
/shrug
To troll myself? To give me something to do so I don't have to read other threads, to help me procrastinate, to satisfy my curiosity in regards to a news story that I saw this morning...
Why do we make any threads that we make???
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reesescups posted:
Are you bitching about improvements in efficiency?
Like Sara Conner!
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Tych2 posted:
Was that the intent of the thread? To show that government workers are being moved from the fed to local and to emphasize how good it is?
That's what I wondered as I read this thread.
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What about comparing it to bush?
Also you cant look at just employees. The new healthcare reform that forces us to buy insurance from private companies has screwed everyone ver.
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The interesting thing is if you compare the % of people employed by the government (state, local and federal) in the early 90's until now it's declined. I really wouldn't have expected that, especially with the creation of DHS 10 years ago.
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eodoll posted:
What about comparing it to bush?
Also you cant look at just employees. The new healthcare reform that forces us to buy insurance from private companies has screwed everyone ver.
I don't see how I am screwed over by having people forced to buy insurance. The only impact I see is higher costs associated with covering people with pre-existing conditions but a lot of those costs were being passed down anyway. Plus I really don't have much of a problem with that reform sense I think it sucks people were getting screwed over by that.
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ZigmundZag posted:
The interesting thing is if you compare the % of people employed by the government (state, local and federal) in the early 90's until now it's declined. I really wouldn't have expected that, especially with the creation of DHS 10 years ago.
Yeah, I am a bit surprised overall as well. Well now I know, and so do the rest of you derpa derpas!
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Does not compute.
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The BLS tracks this stuff in their monthly employment numbers. Easy to pull at http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/
Govt Employment growth from 1/1989 to 1/2012
Federal: (10%)
State: +23%
Local: +34%
Of the state growth, 80% of it was in education. Of the local growth, 60% of it was education.
Private payrolls are up 24% over the same time.
Scary big government appears to be teachers.
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theredkay1 posted:
The BLS tracks this stuff in their monthly employment numbers. Easy to pull at http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/
Govt Employment growth from 1/1989 to 1/2012
Federal: (10%)
State: +23%
Local: +34%
Of the state growth, 80% of it was in education. Of the local growth, 60% of it was education.
Private payrolls are up 24% over the same time.
Scary big government appears to be teachers.
I would bet a lot of the education stuff is special education related or administrative.
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Yet , the debt was $10.626 trillion on the day Mr. Obama took office. The latest calculation from Treasury shows the debt has now hit $14.639 trillion.
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Sounds like massive financial industry driven recessions are not a good for the budget after all.
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The day Obama took office and for almost a year after, it was the Bush budget.
As to the rest, this has been posted numerous times...
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Groucho48 posted:
BUUUUUUUUUUSH!
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illmyrin posted:
reesescups posted:
Are you bitching about improvements in efficiency?
Like Sara Conner!
How did I miss this?
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"Them Bollinger Bands on the DJIA are starting to look like columns of projectile vomit." ~ Red Pill
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reesescups
Title: //Captain America
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Subject:
What is all this noise about 'Big Government'?
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Groucho48 posted:
The day Obama took office and for almost a year after, it was the Bush budget.
As to the rest, this has been posted numerous times...
Biggest thing there are the 'Bush' era tax cuts and the wars...
Didn't the Obama administration and Democratic majority congress have a vote on these tax cuts, and they extended them. Obama's now.
And didn't Obama say he was gonna get out of those wars? Grats on finally getting uniformed Military out of Iraq, but our government is still flipping the bill for hundreds of thousands of 'civilians' to be there...
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"man up, you wimp." - Groucho48
"I'm not racist at all." - dae_trist
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Altra_Shadowstalker
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Subject:
What is all this noise about 'Big Government'?
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So with my elementary school grasp on economics in addition to my reading of the Outpost comments, I've concluded that either state government officials pose just as big a threat to a decentralized America, or more state officials are required to do the jobs that federal officials did at a 4:11 rate. Sounds like we should increase the federal government in order to save the taxpayers money.
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"Goddammit, Swearengen, I don't trust you as far as I could th'ow you, but I enjoy the way you lie."
I don't typo often, but when I do, I blame Swype.
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