Aerlinthian
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http://youtu.be/CWAUHt9dHcs
The unfortunate truth.
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paulg_68
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There are virtually zero "rah rah Republicans" around here. There are people who lean right, but most of them aren't really committed to the party. As opposed to "duh duh Democrats." We have plenty of them and nearly all of them will vote straight party line this year.
Why are libtards so much slower to learn?
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Groucho48
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Right wingers look around and see the shambles that 2 decades of moving further and further to the right has done to their party and try to make themselves feel better by attributing the same shambles to the Democrats. Well, the Democratic Party has ALWAYS been in a shambles, so, we know how to deal with it. Right wingers only feel comfortable in a rigid hierarchy with patriarchs telling them exactly what to think and do. Democrats tend to savage their patriarchs. Shambles and Democrats are a comfortable fit for each other. Republicans, on the other hand, can't handle ambiguity at all.
Mediocre as he is, Obama has been the best and one of the most productive Presidents we've had since LBJ or, maybe, Nixon.
Courts threw out Prop 8 in California
Komen Foundation dumped that religious ideologue who manufactured reasons to defund Planned Parenthood and PP took in record amounts of donations
Santorum won three states
Quite a nice day for liberals.
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paulg_68
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Reality posted:
Two Parties = Zero Difference
Groucho48 posted:
They may be exactly the same but I only vote for the one with the (D).
Why are libtards so much slower to learn?
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If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc "Everyone has a chance to become rich." - Groucho48 "Most of the human wealth on earth exists between the ears of live human beings." - theredkay1
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Ashmaele
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The irony of the fact that Ron Paul is a Repube is completely lost on Ronulans like Paul and Aerlinthian
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Rosaria
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Groucho48 posted:
Mediocre as he is, Obama has been the best and one of the most productive conservative Presidents we've had since LBJ or, maybe, Nixon.
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Brother_Tempus
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Yep, BT is right - Aerlinthian
Got guns & ammo? Food? Precious metals?
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Aerlinthian
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Rosaria posted:
Groucho48 posted:
Mediocre as he is, Obama has been the best and one of the most productive conservative Presidents we've had since LBJ or, maybe, Nixon.
What?  Both Nixon and LBJ were disasters in their own right.
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Rosaria
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Don't look at me, Groucho keeps insisting Obama is a convervative and he can't wait to vote for him again.
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Bonzoboy1
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Obama should be a big Nixon fan, without Nixon opening China who would Obama have pawned the U.S. to?
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Tych2
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Rosaria posted:
Don't look at me, Groucho keeps insisting Obama is a convervative and he can't wait to vote for him again.
That's the problem with being a partisan. You are forced to defend your side EVEN when you think they are wrong and they are PROUD of this! That's the thing that galls me.
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illmyrin
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I'd say having a two party system has a very obvious effect, though, it can take a few hundred elections for people to catch on.
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Kjarhall
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There are plenty of differences between the two parties.
You disagreeing with both of them is fine, but it doesn't make them the same.
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illmyrin
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Kjarhall posted:
There are plenty of differences between the two parties.
You disagreeing with both of them is fine, but it doesn't make them the same.
What are a few of those differences?
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Rosaria
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illmyrin posted:
I'd say having a two party system has a very obvious effect, though, it can take a few hundred elections for people to catch on.
Or a few hundred years.
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B_Shinkicker
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America, where we have one more political party than Communist Russia and China!
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Rosaria
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Tych2 posted:
Rosaria posted:
Don't look at me, Groucho keeps insisting Obama is a convervative and he can't wait to vote for him again.
That's the problem with being a partisan. You are forced to defend your side EVEN when you think they are wrong and they are PROUD of this! That's the thing that galls me.
Nothing you can do about it, I guess the "We Are All Gitmo Now" bill Obama signed just grew on everyone.
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Rosaria
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B_Shinkicker posted:
America, where we have one more political party than Communist Russia and China!
I watched the Chinese election and I suppose you would not believe me if I said they had more diversity of thought in their one political party represented by highly different candidates than our upcoming presidential election of two political parties owned by the same interests.
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theredkay1
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Rosaria posted:
Don't look at me, Groucho keeps insisting Obama is a convervative and he can't wait to vote for him again.
The fact that Obama isnt a left winger is appealing to alot of people.
This simple fact blows minds here on the outpost.
Although to be fair, the words conservative and liberal have kind of lost all meaning here.
Back to the subject at hand....there are large differences in the two parties. Maybe not as large as some would like....but ignoring those differences is a sign of stupid.
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paulg_68
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Obama is a left winger. You're just mad because you thought leftist politics would save the country. Since they are making things worse and not better, you try to pretend like Obama isn't a dumbass socialist like you are.
Can you identify a single fiscally conservative thing Obama has ever done? And don't bother pointing out some social program he rejected in favor of some other social program.
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Kjarhall
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illmyrin posted:
Kjarhall posted:
There are plenty of differences between the two parties.
You disagreeing with both of them is fine, but it doesn't make them the same.
What are a few of those differences?
Think about all the topics covered right here at the Outpost. It's a microcosm of the difference.
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theredkay1
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paulg_68 posted:
Can you identify a single fiscally conservative thing Obama has ever done? And don't bother pointing out some social program he rejected in favor of some other social program.
Define fiscally conservative.
Im guessing we are going to end up with 'fiscal conservatism' = things paul agrees with.
Looks like you have already ruled out all social programs
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reesescups
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Bonzoboy1 posted:
Obama should be a big Nixon fan, without Nixon opening China who would Obama have pawned the U.S. to?
Pretty sure we were in hawk to China long before Obamaer got into office... Actually China starting off loading our hawk before Obama even got into office...
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Yukishiro1
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paulg_68 posted:
There are virtually zero "rah rah Republicans" around here. There are people who lean right, but most of them aren't really committed to the party. As opposed to "duh duh Democrats." We have plenty of them and nearly all of them will vote straight party line this year.
Why are libtards so much slower to learn?
lol
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Rosaria
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Kjarhall posted:
Think about all the topics covered right here at the Outpost. It's a microcosm of the difference.
Most of them are bullshit feel good topics that have nothing do with where is the money coming from, where is the money going in exchange for what, what kind of risks will we encounter, and fiscally what could we anticipate five years from now. Every important single topic we discuss skirts the main issues along party lines with lots of namecalling if you don't think one way or the other. I enjoy the Outpost a great deal but the bullshit factor is high. If you're saying American politics is based on bullshit then yeah I agree.
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Yukishiro1
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Also, the two parties are not the same. But they are more similar than many of us would like.
The "they're exactly teh same!!11" crowd is just as deluded as the true believers who think if we elect an (R) or (D) the world will collapse within 7 days.
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Groucho48
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Obama is a center right President. The Romney of Massachusetts probably wasn't much to the right of him but that Romney no longer exists.
Now, no Republican candidate is anywhere near the center. The center can't even be seen from where they are. Heck, Reagan and Nixon are way too leftish for any of them to even consider as running mates.
Would I prefer a more liberal person than Obama? Absolutely. Does that mean I think Obama is no different than the Republicans running? Nope.
As to their being no difference between the two parties. Santorum, Gingrich, Romney, Paul. Try as you like to make an argument. None of them are anything like Obama or anything like most Democrats. And, even the most conservative Democrat in Congress is less conservative than the most liberal Republican. And, considering how conservative some of those Democrats are, that's pretty scary.
<edit>
They may be exactly the same but I only vote for the one with the (D).
You can't even conceive that your ideology is wrong.
The parties are not the same
I've probably voted for more Republicans and third party candidates than anyone else here. Though, I will say, the Republican Party is so loony tunes now, it has become very difficult finding a sane one to vote for.
So, two huge fails in 16 words. Not bad, but, no where near your best.
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paulg_68
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paulg_68 posted:
Can you identify a single fiscally conservative thing Obama has ever done?
theredkay1 posted:
Define fiscally conservative.
So then no. That's what I figured.
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paulg_68
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Groucho48 posted:
Obama is a center right President.
I'm guessing you can't come up with an example of something fiscally conservative Obama has done either.
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SoBaKi
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Brother_Tempus posted:
Why don't you move to Canada and live in the woods?
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paulg_68 posted:
Groucho48 posted:
Obama is a center right President.
I'm guessing you can't come up with an example of something fiscally conservative Obama has done either.
And there in lies your problem. You're looking for fiscally conservative/liberal when you should be looking for fiscally responsible.
Being fiscally conservative/liberal doesn't mean much anymore.
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DemonicXH
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paulg_68
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SoBaKi posted:
And there in lies your problem. You're looking for fiscally conservative/liberal when you should be looking for fiscally responsible.
Being fiscally conservative/liberal doesn't mean much anymore.
Let me guess, you define fiscally responsible as being someone who spends tons of money and massively raises taxes.
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Kjarhall
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Rosaria posted:
Kjarhall posted:
Think about all the topics covered right here at the Outpost. It's a microcosm of the difference.
Most of them are bullshit feel good topics that have nothing do with where is the money coming from, where is the money going in exchange for what, what kind of risks will we encounter, and fiscally what could we anticipate five years from now. Every important single topic we discuss skirts the main issues along party lines with lots of namecalling if you don't think one way or the other. I enjoy the Outpost a great deal but the bullshit factor is high. If you're saying American politics is based on bullshit then yeah I agree.
Pretty much, and i'm saying that the bullshit is a bit different on each side.
I get that on important topics, such as economic/tax/spend policies, the two sides ideologies aren't as far apart as they claim to be. But there are still significant differences between the two, especially on social issues.
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Yukishiro1
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And you define "fiscally conservative" as whatever you want in each particular thread despite the fact that basically no conservative politicians meet your definition. 
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paulg_68
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Kjarhall posted:
But there are still significant differences between the two, especially on social issues.
Myth. Both parties have recently had both houses of Congress and the Whitehouse.
What changed?
Almost nothing. Certainly nothing significant.
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Akza
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paulg_68 posted:
SoBaKi posted:
And there in lies your problem. You're looking for fiscally conservative/liberal when you should be looking for fiscally responsible.
Being fiscally conservative/liberal doesn't mean much anymore.
Let me guess, you define fiscally responsible as being someone who spends tons of money and massively raises taxes.
None of them are fiscally responsible. Even Obama isn't.
Sorry but you're not going to get this country towards being healthier fiscally unless you raise taxes. Even a 5% jump in taxes would put us on par with Canada.
This country would be a lot healthier fiscally as well if the military industrial complex got toned down.
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paulg_68 posted:
paulg_68 posted:
Can you identify a single fiscally conservative thing Obama has ever done?
theredkay1 posted:
Define fiscally conservative.
No.
I WIN!!!
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paulg_68
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Yukishiro1 posted:
And you define "fiscally conservative" as whatever you want in each particular thread despite the fact that basically no conservative politicians meet your definition.
Redkay and Groucho are saying Obama is fiscally conservative. They cannot provide a single example because nothing he has ever done fits with any definition of fiscally conservative that they wouldn't be embarrassed to provide.
If I give a definition, they will merely evade the question by attacking my definition. My definition isn't required since I'm not the one saying he is fiscally conservative.
(Edit: @ redkay. He proved me right before I even clicked post.)
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Ashmaele
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paulg_68 posted:
Groucho48 posted:
Obama is a center right President.
I'm guessing you can't come up with an example of something fiscally conservative Obama has done either.
Are tax cuts fiscally conservative? Because Obama cut a bunch of taxes and stuff.
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Yukishiro1
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I'm not interested in your little argument. But I do find you complaining about someone else refusing to define their terms pretty ironic.
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Ashmaele
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paulg_68 posted:
Redkay and Groucho are saying Obama is fiscally conservative.
Where exactly did they say this? Are you talking about another thread?
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theredkay1
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paulg_68 posted:
Both parties have recently had both houses of Congress and the Whitehouse.
What changed?
Almost nothing. Certainly nothing significant.
Iraq.
Healthcare.
The existence of the US auto production sector.
Pretty significant. I guess there are some people that are not impacted by Iraq, healthcare and the auto industry. But probably not many.
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paulg_68
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Yukishiro1 posted:
I'm not interested in your little argument. But I do find you complaining about someone else refusing to define their terms pretty ironic.
I complained about what?
Quote please.
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paulg_68
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theredkay1 posted:
Iraq.
Healthcare.
The existence of the US auto production sector.
Pretty significant. I guess there are some people that are not impacted by Iraq, healthcare and the auto industry. But probably not many.
You think those are social issues?
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SoBaKi
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paulg_68 posted:
SoBaKi posted:
And there in lies your problem. You're looking for fiscally conservative/liberal when you should be looking for fiscally responsible.
Being fiscally conservative/liberal doesn't mean much anymore.
Let me guess, you define fiscally responsible as being someone who spends tons of money and massively raises taxes.
That's a retarded conclusion based upon my statement.
Let's cut to the chase, shall we?
Do you believe in order for the U.S. to fix its debt problem, not only should spending be cut, but taxes should be increased?
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Ashmaele
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Ashmaele posted:
paulg_68 posted:
Redkay and Groucho are saying Obama is fiscally conservative.
Where exactly did they say this? Are you talking about another thread?
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Ashmaele
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Ashmaele posted:
Ashmaele posted:
paulg_68 posted:
Redkay and Groucho are saying Obama is fiscally conservative.
Where exactly did they say this? Are you talking about another thread?
At this point in the thread we can assume that paul has figured out that he screwed up and looks stupid and will probably avoid answering this question if he does not abandon the thread entirely Fist-style.
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theredkay1 posted:
The fact that Obama isnt a left winger is appealing to alot of people.
Although to be fair, the words conservative and liberal have kind of lost all meaning here.
paulg_68 posted:
Can you identify a single fiscally conservative thing Obama has ever done?
theredkay1 posted:
Define fiscally conservative.
paulg_68 posted:
No.
paulg_68 posted:
Redkay and Groucho are saying Obama is fiscally conservative.
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paulg_68 posted:
theredkay1 posted:
Iraq.
Healthcare.
The existence of the US auto production sector.
Pretty significant. I guess there are some people that are not impacted by Iraq, healthcare and the auto industry. But probably not many.
You think those are social issues?
Did I say that?
Why is that label important to you?
You are digging yourself a massive hole.
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theredkay1 posted:
paulg_68 posted:
theredkay1 posted:
Iraq.
Healthcare.
The existence of the US auto production sector.
Pretty significant. I guess there are some people that are not impacted by Iraq, healthcare and the auto industry. But probably not many.
You think those are social issues?
Did I say that?
You quoted a conversation about social issues where the Democrats had made changes and then responded with that list.
Did you accidentally quote the wrong thing?
theredkay1 posted:
You are digging yourself a massive hole.
Someone is. Not me though.
And for good measure.
theredkay1 posted:
The fact that Obama isnt a left winger is appealing to alot of people.
Groucho48 posted:
Obama is a center right President.
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Being right of center doesn't mean that someone is a fiscal conservative.
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paulg_68 posted:
Kjarhall posted:
But there are still significant differences between the two, especially on social issues.
Myth. Both parties have recently had both houses of Congress and the Whitehouse.
What changed?
Almost nothing. Certainly nothing significant.
Just because nothing changed doesn't mean they're the same. You're being obtuse, as usual.
They, as a whole, differ on - abortion, retirement funding, corporate regulations, privacy rights, gun rights, gay marraige, what to tax and how much, what spending to cut and how much, what to spend on and how much, and a plethora more issues.
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paulg_68 posted:
theredkay1 posted:
The fact that Obama isnt a left winger is appealing to alot of people.
Groucho48 posted:
Obama is a center right President.
I thought we were claiming he was a fiscal conservative?
Im glad you settled that one.
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There are a million positions on the fiscal scale where I could be right and exactly one where I could be wrong. Are you arguing that Obama occupies that one exact position where I would be wrong?
If you say yes, you're in for an uphill battle based on the fact that you haven't been able to come up with one single fiscally conservative thing Obama has ever done.
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paulg_68 posted:
If you say yes, you're in for an uphill battle based on the fact that you haven't been able to come up with one single fiscally conservative thing Obama has ever done.
Obama's plan for the payroll tax cut extension actually paid for the tax cut.
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The single most fiscally conservative thing the government could do is to allow the Bush tax cuts to expire. Next would be to cut military spending by about a third.
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Groucho48 posted:
The single most fiscally conservative thing the government could do is to allow the Bush tax cuts to expire. Next would be to cut military spending by about a third.
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Groucho48 posted:
The single most fiscally conservative thing the government could do is to allow the Bush tax cuts to expire. Next would be to cut military spending by about a third.
And how many of those things did the Democrats do when they were in charge?
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