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Welcome to the Vault Network
forum archive.
This is not a complete archive, time didn't allot us the
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Topic: Was Cain's Gain Abel's Loss?
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Modeeb
Title: A Ghost In The Machine
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Subject:
Was Cain's Gain Abel's Loss?
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Does self interest make the world go around? Is this a pull yourself up by your bootstraps, its a dog eat dog world? This is the free market. 
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"What is here is there. What is not here is nowhere." Vishvasara Tantra
"Ever tried, Ever Failed. No matter. Try Again.
Fail Again. Fail Better. Samuel Beckett
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paulg_68
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Subject:
Was Cain's Gain Abel's Loss?
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The free market is a tool. In some circumstances it's the right tool for the job. In some circumstances it is not the right tool for the job.
On one side of the spectrum, you have people like Modeeb, Yuki, Obrien, Groucho, and Redkay who treat the free market like it was an abhorrent religious belief. On the other side you have people like Brother Tempus who treats it like a sacred religious belief. Both sides are wrong. The free market isn't universally right, and it isn't universally wrong.
It's just a tool. Use it where it's better than the alternative tools. Don't expect it to do things that it doesn't do.
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If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc "Everyone has a chance to become rich." - Groucho48 "Most of the human wealth on earth exists between the ears of live human beings." - theredkay1
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Modeeb
Title: A Ghost In The Machine
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Subject:
Was Cain's Gain Abel's Loss?
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So, Paul believes in equilibrium? It doesn't exist.
-----signature-----
"What is here is there. What is not here is nowhere." Vishvasara Tantra
"Ever tried, Ever Failed. No matter. Try Again.
Fail Again. Fail Better. Samuel Beckett
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paulg_68
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Subject:
Was Cain's Gain Abel's Loss?
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Equilibrium of what?
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If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc "Everyone has a chance to become rich." - Groucho48 "Most of the human wealth on earth exists between the ears of live human beings." - theredkay1
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cherrim
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Subject:
Was Cain's Gain Abel's Loss?
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life is not zero-sum
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One special advantage of the skeptical attitude of mind is that a man is never vexed to find that after all he has been in the wrong.
- William Osler
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Groucho48
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Subject:
Was Cain's Gain Abel's Loss?
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I have no problem with the free market. For one thing, it doesn't exist except as an abstract concept.
But, on the broad spectrum between a total free market on one end and total government control on the other, I am probably about two thirds of the way towards the free market end. Free marketers, of course, feel that anyone who isn't at least 90% of the way to the free market end is a socialist, if not worse.
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“Science is like sex: sometimes something useful comes out, but that is not the reason we are doing it.†– Richard Feynman
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paulg_68
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Subject:
Was Cain's Gain Abel's Loss?
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You're describing it like it's a way of life. It's not. It's situational. It's a tool that is either used in a situation or not.
There is no range of free market. It's binary. Either you used it or you didn't.
Saying that you are 2/3 in favor of the free market is about as useful as saying you like to make chocolate chip cookies without chocolate chips. If you don't put in the chocolate chips, they aren't chocolate chip cookies at all.
-----signature-----
If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc "Everyone has a chance to become rich." - Groucho48 "Most of the human wealth on earth exists between the ears of live human beings." - theredkay1
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Mastara
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Subject:
Was Cain's Gain Abel's Loss?
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Here you guys, cain and able explained!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUmHo85M78Y
The mystery is now solved! Take that History Channel!
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Boooooommmm Heeeaaaddddshhhhooooottttt! http://www.carellaross.com/img/truth_its_the_new_hate_speech.jpg Mastatheimposta - 10L2 SB Merlin
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Groucho48
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Subject:
Was Cain's Gain Abel's Loss?
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paulg_68 posted:
You're describing it like it's a way of life. It's not. It's situational. It's a tool that is either used in a situation or not.
There is no range of free market. It's binary. Either you used it or you didn't.
Saying that you are 2/3 in favor of the free market is about as useful as saying you like to make chocolate chip cookies without chocolate chips. If you don't put in the chocolate chips, they aren't chocolate chip cookies at all.
Given a wide range of real world situations, I'd tend to favor "free market" solutions to non-free market solutions more often than not. I'd guess about two thirds of the time, which is what I said.
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“Science is like sex: sometimes something useful comes out, but that is not the reason we are doing it.†– Richard Feynman
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IMHO
Title: Official Outpost Greeter
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Subject:
Was Cain's Gain Abel's Loss?
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Modeeb posted:
Does self interest make the world go around? Is this a pull yourself up by your bootstraps, its a dog eat dog world? This is the free market.
While it may have benefited Cain, atm, to kill his brother in the 'wide view' he was cursed to become a restless wanderer on the earth and all his descendants drowned in the great flood.
While the free market is good, unchecked greed has it's consequences.
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You're Right ~ Koneg
He's [Manegarm] like the Fred Phelps of atheism. ~Bubbledude
many of you are in the Republican boat, aka the ship of fools. ~Modeeb
We are here on Earth to fart around. Don't let anybody tell you any different. ~Kurt Vonnegut
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__Bonk__
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Subject:
Was Cain's Gain Abel's Loss?
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It was a great sin to kill his brother. It was all about power, favor, and inheritance.
Killing your family is one of the worst things a person can do. They are blood
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I keep my eyes fixed on the sun!
A change in feeling is a change in destiny.
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Groucho48
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Subject:
Was Cain's Gain Abel's Loss?
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__Bonk__ posted:
It was a great sin to kill his brother. It was all about power, favor, and inheritance.
Killing your family is one of the worst things a person can do. They are blood
From the free market point of view it was an obvious thing to do. Make your position stronger by eliminating the competition. Nothing in the free market ethos is opposed to murder, theft, bribery, extortion, monopoly, aggrandizement of power, exploitation of the weak, and so on. Libertarians like to pretend they are against the extremism of unfettered free marketism, but, in actuality, all they are against is any attempt by government to protect human beings from the overwhelming power of corporatism. The most important and fundamental right, according to libertarians, is the right of property. No other right is even in the running.
-----signature-----
“Science is like sex: sometimes something useful comes out, but that is not the reason we are doing it.†– Richard Feynman
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IMHO
Title: Official Outpost Greeter
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Subject:
Was Cain's Gain Abel's Loss?
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Groucho48 posted:
__Bonk__ posted:
It was a great sin to kill his brother. It was all about power, favor, and inheritance.
Killing your family is one of the worst things a person can do. They are blood
From the free market point of view it was an obvious thing to do. Make your position stronger by eliminating the competition. Nothing in the free market ethos is opposed to murder, theft, bribery, extortion, monopoly, aggrandizement of power, exploitation of the weak, and so on. Libertarians like to pretend they are against the extremism of unfettered free marketism, but, in actuality, all they are against is any attempt by government to protect human beings from the overwhelming power of corporatism. The most important and fundamental right, according to libertarians, is the right of property. No other right is even in the running.
Very well said. Greed will often over reach it's self.
-----signature-----
You're Right ~ Koneg
He's [Manegarm] like the Fred Phelps of atheism. ~Bubbledude
many of you are in the Republican boat, aka the ship of fools. ~Modeeb
We are here on Earth to fart around. Don't let anybody tell you any different. ~Kurt Vonnegut
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