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Topic: The Border War is Over!

Amendial Posts: 5,462 Registered: Sep 8, '04 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 5,356 User ID: 965,019	Subject: The Border War is Over!
	Missouri to the SEC is all but offical. West Virginia is coming into the Big 12 now to replace them (upgrade!). Hopefully KU-MU do the right thing and do not schedule each other. Its over. Missouri is going one direction and Kansas is going in another. Time to break off this relationship and go find new partners. Sad to see the longest rivalry west of the Mississippi end, but it is better this way than trying to drag on a messy divorce. -----signature----- Basur - 50 Jedi Shadow - Alduras - 30 Jedi Knight - Infinite Empire Brienna - 50 Sith Sorc - The Crucible Pits Kansas University Class of 2013! 2008 National Champions!! 2008 Orange Bowl Champions!!
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.Juzam. Title: Moderator I am THAT damn good! Posts: 7,860 Registered: Jul 11, '01 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 7,730 User ID: 242,040	Subject: The Border War is Over!
	shrug I didn't post about conference realignment because I knew you would have such a myopic view of the topic. There is no actual reason for the border war to end. If anyone involved thinks the football border war was important to the two schools because of anything related to the conference, they are blatantly fooling themselves. There were 2 times in the 119 year history where that game had any relevance to the conference championship or national relevance. In 2007 the winner of the game still did not win the conference, and 1960 is still being disputed. The other 117 years the two teams played in relative obscurity (as opposed to Michigan/Ohio State, OU/Nebraska, USC/UCLA, Aub/Ala, etc). If, after the emotions subside, ku still decides that they do not wish to play MU as an OOC game, I am sure we can find someone like Nebraska to fill the void and still rake in the money from Arrowhead. Frankly, the game is played in Kansas City because both schools needed the money, and I don't see how that is really changing. It makes financial sense to continue the game. It's not like MU or ku will ever be a powerhouse; the game will always be competitive. In basketball, there is also no logical reason to stop playing each other - especially for ku. MU is like a decently respected basketball team and most years, an easy win for ku. Why not get a victory over a 'rival' to boost your resume for March? Both teams will continue to fill their OOC schedules with someone so not playing ku is not hurting us. There are plenty of power teams we can play that want a quality win each year! Once the emotional trauma has subsided, I truly hope that ku changes its illogical and emotional stance about these games. Frankly, this is not a marriage (or any other analogy) its a multi-million dollar business and it makes financial sense for both teams. Many other teams have a rival they play OOC every year (Fla/FlSt, Ga/GT, Ia/IaSt, etc). Can you (Amendial) come up with any actual reason why these games should not be played that are not based on the emotional responses or bruised egos? I doubt you can. Frankly, imo if ku had anywhere to go, they too would be leaving the Big 12. The old Big 8 is basically dead. NU gone, CU gone, OU/OSU tried to leave, MU gone. I wish it weren't so, but it is. I will be sad to see the Border war end if it does, but I highly doubt even you can blame MU for leaving when the opportunity arose. -----signature----- 61% of all hits on the internet are on sex sites.. .. .... ...... So.. what are you doing here?
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Amendial Posts: 5,462 Registered: Sep 8, '04 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 5,356 User ID: 965,019	Subject: The Border War is Over!
	Honestly I still like the Big 12. The SEC would be the last place I would want to go. KU football struggles enough in the Big 12, I hate to even imagine what life in the SEC would be like for our football program, and there is no basketball school inside the SEC who I would get annually excited about playing. The ACC would be my choice destination, but that is never going to happen. Big 10 would be second, which could potentially happen someday maybe but I am not holding my breath. Out of the conferences that are remaining, I actually like the Big 12 the most. So Missouri going to the SEC doesn't bother me all that much. It honestly just doesn't make all that much sense to me. Why does Missouri want out of the Big 12 so badly? I think the Big 12 is looking pretty good. So we lost a few schools, but the replacement schools for them are not cupcakes. In fact TCU for TAM is an upgrade as far as football is concerned. Your right about there not being a logical reason to quit the border war game, but how much logic has really gone into anything related to conference realignment? Not a whole lot. As far as the money from playing in Arrowhead goes, we can find another school (K-state) to play in Arrowhead and get the same payday we get now. So that makes no difference to me. We will see how this plays out, this move doesn't seem as bad now as it did a few weeks ago when the Big 12 was still on life support. -----signature----- Basur - 50 Jedi Shadow - Alduras - 30 Jedi Knight - Infinite Empire Brienna - 50 Sith Sorc - The Crucible Pits Kansas University Class of 2013! 2008 National Champions!! 2008 Orange Bowl Champions!!
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.Juzam. Title: Moderator I am THAT damn good! Posts: 7,860 Registered: Jul 11, '01 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 7,730 User ID: 242,040	Subject: The Border War is Over!
	That makes sense to me because of the difference in our ages actually. I am a child of the Big 8 while you never knew that era. I have little to no attachment to the Texas schools at all. I was sad to see NU and CU go, while not really all that bothered by TAM leaving. I was disappointed in OU/OSU and their flirtations but expected it from Texas. As for the SEC, its a solid conference and while difficult for football, it should be easier for basketball. On that note, I would think that you would want to play Kenutcky each year. While you might think that TCU is an upgrade over A&M you are only considering football. TCU is a tiny school with A&M is consistently in the top 10 for all sports (Capital One Cup?), while their academics were near the top of the Big 12. There is no way TCU can make up for the entirety of what A&M brought. Also while if we stayed I would probably say the same thing, I know that WV/TCU do not make equivalent for NU/CU/TAM/MU no matter how you spin it. Nobody pushed harder to save the Big 12 this year than Mizzou. Up until 2 months ago when I think that Boren pushed Deaton over the edge. Our leaders wanted to stay but knew that the SEC wanted us in unofficial discussions. When it looked like the Big 12 was being saved, out of nowhere OU started all the 'we are not going to be wallflowers' talk. Through that, it became clear that the conference was only going to live as long as Texas and OU wanted it to. We wanted assurances that no one was leaving, but Texas would not agree to anything longer than 6 years (with declining buyouts btw). I think we were just tired of going through this conference shuffle and the SEC provided a nice safe home and wanted us. Plus, more money is nice too. Logic does not have much to do with the move until you factor in that there were two choices for MU. I can't really think of a drawback to going to the SEC that is not emotional (missing out on playing ku). More money, more prestige, revenue sharing, soon to be TV network, stability. But even then, MU did not want to move until it was basically shoved in their faces that OU/Texas just did not care about anyone but themselves. You said it yourself that just a few weeks ago the Big 12 seemed to be on life support. Why wouldn't MU want to grab onto a passing lifeguard who actually wanted them to hop onto their boat. -----signature----- 61% of all hits on the internet are on sex sites.. .. .... ...... So.. what are you doing here?
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Amendial Posts: 5,462 Registered: Sep 8, '04 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 5,356 User ID: 965,019	Subject: The Border War is Over!
	I was just thinking about that point on the orginal Big 8 a little bit ago. My dad was real upset with Nebraska and Colorado leaving, but I was not that upset at all. I basically started following college sports after the Big 12 was formed. So I do not have that old Big 8 attachment. That being said though, there are as many Big 8 teams now (before Mizzou leaves) as there were to start the season, so nothing has changed in that regard. As far as an annual game with Kentucky goes, that would be nice in the SEC, but there are no other good games to look forward to in that conference. The Big 12 we get an annual game against Texas (or two), games against K-State, Baylor, and now West Va. While none of those hold the prestige that Kentucky holds, they are all more solid than we would find outside of Kentucky in the SEC. Top to bottom the Big 12 might just be the best basketball conference in the nation. If the Big 12 expands again and adds Louisville, we just become that much better in basketball. I can agree with your point about getting away from Texas and OU, but dont fool yourself into thinking that Alabama/Florida/LSU are saints. My thing with Missouri leaving is I would think they would want to stay in the big 12 for a couple years until the Big East implodes and Notre Dame is forced to join a conference and the Big 10 expands again. We all know the Big 10 is where Missouri wants to be, and this pretty much closes the door on that, unless Mizzou is planning to dump the SEC in a few years. We will see how this works out for Missouri. In one way they can take the next step forward in becoming an annual power house in football, but at the same time they run the risk of becoming another Vandy or Ole Miss. Honestly I do not care either way if we continue to play Mizzou or not in football, but one thing I do care about is not playing an annual basketball game with them in KC. It has to be in Columbia one year and Lawrence the next. It is unacceptable to stop playing Mizzou in Allen Field House. If you stop doing that you may as well just stop playing them all together. That is the biggest thing that we lose with Mizzou switching conferences. That two basketball games a year with each team hosting once. Around here we could careless about where the football game is played; it's all about the basketball game, and I doubt they are going to schedule each other twice in non conference play. Which is why I believe we should just let the whole thing die. Maybe I am just being old school and after a few years of playing one game a year against Mizzou in KC we will learn to appriciate the rivalry even more, but it doesn't feel like it would be the same in Sprint Center as it would be in Allen Field House or in Columbia. As a side note: Does Texas A&M get a Big 12 victory or an SEC victory after they beat Mizzou today? -----signature----- Basur - 50 Jedi Shadow - Alduras - 30 Jedi Knight - Infinite Empire Brienna - 50 Sith Sorc - The Crucible Pits Kansas University Class of 2013! 2008 National Champions!! 2008 Orange Bowl Champions!!
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.Juzam. Title: Moderator I am THAT damn good! Posts: 7,860 Registered: Jul 11, '01 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 7,730 User ID: 242,040	Subject: The Border War is Over!
	Mizzou had a choice to make... Not win any championships in the Big 12 or not win any championships in the SEC. Football might be tougher, but for basketball, we have to find a coach first before I make any claims that the SEC would be easier. I would be more upset about leaving if I could actually believe that the Big 12 was going to survive. In the next few years, the BCS is going to get revamped, maybe super conferences come about sometime, and if they do, I just don't see teams leaving the SEC/Big10/ACC/Pac12. If the longhorn network takes off (I am not sure that it will) then Texas will go independent. The landscape is changing in college sports and while I hope the Big 12 would survive, there are too many other possible outcomes that all end with the demise of the Big 12. If MU had gotten into the Big 10 last year, that would have been best, but I only say that from an academic and ability to win championships perspective. Overall the SEC is stronger athletically. Frankly, after all the crap that went down last year, I don't think MU leaders want to go to the Big 10 any longer. Well, to clarify, they might want to, but are not about to deal with Delany again. also.. When they did the recap on ESPN about our game today, they said that Mizzou got back to 4-4 overall, 2-3 in the Big 12, and 1-0 in the SEC. Was quite funny actually. -----signature----- 61% of all hits on the internet are on sex sites.. .. .... ...... So.. what are you doing here?
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Amendial Posts: 5,462 Registered: Sep 8, '04 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 5,356 User ID: 965,019	Subject: The Border War is Over!
	Yeah I heard that and LOLed. You think the offical announcement is coming on Monday? -----signature----- Basur - 50 Jedi Shadow - Alduras - 30 Jedi Knight - Infinite Empire Brienna - 50 Sith Sorc - The Crucible Pits Kansas University Class of 2013! 2008 National Champions!! 2008 Orange Bowl Champions!!
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Rela Posts: 2,520 Registered: Feb 1, '04 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 2,517 User ID: 890,057	Subject: The Border War is Over!
	Not relevant enough to consider this a serious rivalry. -----signature----- Holyshotz \| Kestera \| Naryk \| Saiyok \| Relaks [CV] Kag - Narik - Nicoz
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.Juzam. Title: Moderator I am THAT damn good! Posts: 7,860 Registered: Jul 11, '01 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 7,730 User ID: 242,040	Subject: The Border War is Over!
	I dunno when it will be. Hopefully last Monday! But today would make it a really good weekend for Missouri. World Series champs, Mizzou over ATM, SEC! Rela posted: Not relevant enough to consider this a serious rivalry. You are misinformed if you made that statement in any form of seriousness. It is far and away a much more intense and hated rivalry than any other in college sports. Its roots are in the civil war when Missouri burned Lawrence to the ground after Kansas raiders burned much of western MO. Both schools mascots are named after civil war armed forces units - the Tigers who defended Columbia and those terrorist red leggers who shamelessly attacked and killed helpless women and children! These two schools play a real rivalry, not one born out of competitiveness or good sportsmanship! This rivalry is hatred personified. -----signature----- 61% of all hits on the internet are on sex sites.. .. .... ...... So.. what are you doing here?
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Rela Posts: 2,520 Registered: Feb 1, '04 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 2,517 User ID: 890,057	Subject: The Border War is Over!
	-----signature----- Holyshotz \| Kestera \| Naryk \| Saiyok \| Relaks [CV] Kag - Narik - Nicoz
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Amendial Posts: 5,462 Registered: Sep 8, '04 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 5,356 User ID: 965,019	Subject: The Border War is Over!
	Don't you have some slaves to take care of.....oh wait you slavers lost the war and your slaves. What a shame. I am sure there are still several elections you can rig. Just when I started to move on from Missouri, you go and remind me why I hate Missouri. Ah the good old hatred of Missouri. Muck Fizzou. -----signature----- Basur - 50 Jedi Shadow - Alduras - 30 Jedi Knight - Infinite Empire Brienna - 50 Sith Sorc - The Crucible Pits Kansas University Class of 2013! 2008 National Champions!! 2008 Orange Bowl Champions!!
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.Juzam. Title: Moderator I am THAT damn good! Posts: 7,860 Registered: Jul 11, '01 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 7,730 User ID: 242,040	Subject: The Border War is Over!
	-----signature----- 61% of all hits on the internet are on sex sites.. .. .... ...... So.. what are you doing here?
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Amendial Posts: 5,462 Registered: Sep 8, '04 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 5,356 User ID: 965,019	Subject: The Border War is Over!
	Well its offical, Mizzou to the SEC. I have to say the more I hear people talk about ending the Border War the less I like the idea. I hate to say you are right but really there is no good reason to end the rivalry, and there is no real reason to be upset that Mizzou is even going to the SEC. Who cares if Mizzou goes to the SEC. Nothing is going to change. Now instead of being Texas and Oklahoma's easy victory they are Alabama, LSU, and Florida's easy victory. Instead of competing with KU, ISU, and Baylor for bottom of their conference in football they will now compete with UK, Ole Miss and Vandervilt for bottom of their conference. The only thing that might change is they will have a much better shot to win a basketball regular season title. I guess this year will potentially be the last Border War game (I heard somewhere we were under contract until 2012 in Arrowhead, so maybe next year if this is true), and that is very sad. We should keep the football rivalry alive, and if at all possible try to get a home and home scheduled for basketball (I like Mizzou in AFH every year, but I will settle for every other year if I have to). However, I still refuse to play them in a B-Ball game in KC, that is not acceptable. Hopefully the two sides will come together in the next few months and work something out. -----signature----- Basur - 50 Jedi Shadow - Alduras - 30 Jedi Knight - Infinite Empire Brienna - 50 Sith Sorc - The Crucible Pits Kansas University Class of 2013! 2008 National Champions!! 2008 Orange Bowl Champions!!
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.Juzam. Title: Moderator I am THAT damn good! Posts: 7,860 Registered: Jul 11, '01 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 7,730 User ID: 242,040	Subject: The Border War is Over!
	Pretty much an accurate description... I am hoping that after everyone calms down there are more attitudes like yours about the game. Right now its basically trading a win for MU in football for a win for ku in basketball each year! I like the football game in KC since its a good sized stadium, good payday for both teams, and an be a good atmosphere. However, I am with you that basketball should be played at the home courts.. Only thing I would debate is that basketball would be easier in the SEC year in and year out. In all honesty, the Big 12 has KU and the SEC has UK. Other than that there really is no other perennial power. Texas ~ Florida maybe... -----signature----- 61% of all hits on the internet are on sex sites.. .. .... ...... So.. what are you doing here?
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stevenonfire Posts: 1,949 Registered: Jun 26, '05 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 1,825 User ID: 1,061,642	Subject: The Border War is Over!
	Hey Amendial, how is tardvaris Jackson doing? Is he really sticking it to the Vikings like we knew he always could? That kid is headed for the hall of fame, i tell ya! -----signature----- Stevenonfire 2x R1L4 NS -- SOLD!
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Amendial Posts: 5,462 Registered: Sep 8, '04 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 5,356 User ID: 965,019	Subject: The Border War is Over!
	Dont discredit West Va, Texas has turned into an annual power as well. The Big 12 has more decent teams than the SEC does. That all could change in a few years, but right now it is hard to get excited about SEC basketball which struggles to send more than a couple teams to the tournament, whereas the Big 12 is always sending half the conference. The new Big 12 should remain pretty stacked in basketball. KU, Texas, West Va as a good solid base, and then teams like Baylor, Ok State, Oklahoma who have a chance to be good to great off and on. That is over half the conference right there. If the Big 12 grabs Louisville in a few years that just adds another great school to the list. SEC has UK and that is it. Florida has been mostly garbage since their mini dynasty broke up. No one else has stepped up. Although I would not sleep on Arkansas in a few years. Great hire by them when they hired Anderson. -----signature----- Basur - 50 Jedi Shadow - Alduras - 30 Jedi Knight - Infinite Empire Brienna - 50 Sith Sorc - The Crucible Pits Kansas University Class of 2013! 2008 National Champions!! 2008 Orange Bowl Champions!!
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.Juzam. Title: Moderator I am THAT damn good! Posts: 7,860 Registered: Jul 11, '01 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 7,730 User ID: 242,040	Subject: The Border War is Over!
	Amendial posted: Great hire by them when they hired Anderson. not sure if serious... Didn't you give me crap for the past few years because Anderson sucked?? I guess I should clarify, the Big 12 is a better overall basketball conference - I wasn't really debating that. What I meant is that the Big 12 title goes through kansas. In the SEC it goes through Kentucky. While there are more teams that can win the title in the Big 12 depending upon the year, in most years it is kansas and 1-2 other teams... maybe. In the SEC Mizzou becomes one of the 1-2 other teams out of the gate (depending upon Haith) but they were not typically in that realm in the Big 12. So it might get easier in the SEC, it still has to go through that one dominant team every year. You are factually correct, I was just saying that they might move up from the 4-7th place range in the Big 12 to the 2-5 range in the SEC, but until they get their act together against elite talent, we won't be winning anything in the SEC either. -----signature----- 61% of all hits on the internet are on sex sites.. .. .... ...... So.. what are you doing here?
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Amendial Posts: 5,462 Registered: Sep 8, '04 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 5,356 User ID: 965,019	Subject: The Border War is Over!
	I only said Anderson sucks because he was the coach of Missouri and he was moderately successful. That automatically means a coach sucks in my opinion. The good coaches are the ones who take Mizzou to losing seasons. I would not really put Kentucky up on the level of KU just yet. Kansas has proven over the past decade that they can dominate year in and year out, Kentucky has not shown that yet. Lets not forget, just about three years ago Kentucky was just another team in the SEC, even to the point where they missed the tournament a couple times last decade. Winning the Big 12 over Kansas the past decade was a much greater accomplishment than winning the SEC over Kentucky. But you right for the next couple of years, Kentucky is where the SEC title will run through. However, if you take care of business against the mid level SEC teams you can possibly win the SEC easier in the years where Kentucky has to come to Columbia. Mizzou is good at home, and when they get Kentucky at home they could easily have a leg up on winning the SEC regular season title. Not having to play that top tier team twice a season for Mizzou will be a blessing. Also I read today that Haith wants to continue the rivalry as a home and home series in basketball. I am glad to see someone with the potential power to do something about it is looking at leaving the basketball series as a home and home. I think this will get done eventually and the Border War will not miss a beat, but we will see. -----signature----- Basur - 50 Jedi Shadow - Alduras - 30 Jedi Knight - Infinite Empire Brienna - 50 Sith Sorc - The Crucible Pits Kansas University Class of 2013! 2008 National Champions!! 2008 Orange Bowl Champions!!
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.Juzam. Title: Moderator I am THAT damn good! Posts: 7,860 Registered: Jul 11, '01 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 7,730 User ID: 242,040	Subject: The Border War is Over!
	Mizzou will be in the East division with Kentucky so it's my understanding that we have a home/home with each of the East teams and then alternate years with the west. 19 conference games... But your point is pretty valid - I had forgotten how bad the SEC was prior to Florida's rise (then Kentucky). Actually, Mizzou will enter the SEC while the power is much like the old division of the Big 12. In the Big 12 MU was in the north while the majority of the football power was in the South. In the SEC right now, most of the football power is in the West. In basketball most of the good teams are in the East, much like the better basketball teams were in the North division. -----signature----- 61% of all hits on the internet are on sex sites.. .. .... ...... So.. what are you doing here?
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Amendial Posts: 5,462 Registered: Sep 8, '04 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 5,356 User ID: 965,019	Subject: The Border War is Over!
	My understanding is that the SEC is not going to use divisions in basketball. They will play all 13 teams once and then three local teams twice. For Mizzou it looks like that could be Arkansas and some combo of the Mississippi teams and Texas A&M. In that setup they would only play Kentucky once per season, and honestly by getting the two Mississippi schools twice they really have an advantage over every school that has to play Kentucky or Florida twice. Even Arkansas is a huge mess right now and it should remain that way for a couple of years until Anderson gets his players into the program. Basketball will be a blessing, and on the football side, Mizzou is coming into the easier of the conference so that is also a blessing. If they stick with a 8 conference game format, then Missouri plays SCU, UF, UGA, Vandy, Kentucky, and Tennessee. That is not any worse than they have been playing in the big 12, and in fact is probably a little easier. Throw in the two games from the other side of the conference which would be Arkansas, and maybe Texas A&M (if they do a two preserved rivalries set up) then it gets a little more difficult, but avoiding Alabama, Auburn and LSU on a yearly basis is a blessing for Missouri. I honestly think the SEC should reform its division to be more competitive. Split up Bama and Auburn on one side with LSU and Arkansas on the other. Add UF and UGA to the Bama Auburn side, and put SCU and Tennesee in the LSU Ark side. You then put the Mississippi school in one of the two divisions and put Vandy and Kentucky in the other. Then you just put Mizzou in one and A&M in the other and you have much more balanced divisions. Rename the divisions to the Slavers (Mizzou has to be in this division ) and the Confederates and you solve the problem of a not being geographic to your division. -----signature----- Basur - 50 Jedi Shadow - Alduras - 30 Jedi Knight - Infinite Empire Brienna - 50 Sith Sorc - The Crucible Pits Kansas University Class of 2013! 2008 National Champions!! 2008 Orange Bowl Champions!!
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