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Welcome to the Vault Network
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Topic: OnStar keeps tracking you, even after canceling
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Ravynmagi
Title: Moderator
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Subject:
OnStar keeps tracking you, even after canceling
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http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/09/onstar-tracks-you/
With the OnStar GPS, they collect information on your location and speed and keep it. And they say they are not selling this data, but get requests for it often and may sell it in the future. The data would be anonymized so it shouldn't track back to an individual.
They are changing their terms of service that makes it so they can continue to collecting your location and speed even after you cancel the service. The reason for this is to make it easier to re-enroll into the service. You can contact them and request that they stop collecting information after canceling if you want.
Awesome.
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Blisteringballs
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Subject:
OnStar keeps tracking you, even after canceling
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I bet city planners are really interested in this data, and possibly law enforcement (where should we set up our speed traps?). They're going to sale this, they're not collecting it for altruism or product and process improvement that's for sure.
By the way, depending upon the state a corporation is in, they can legally say they aren't selling or sharing customer data while actually doing so. All kinds of loop holes. I worked for a company in Virginia (Japanese but this arm was in VA) and they did this. Straight up mirrored certain portions of their Peoplesoft databases with other companies at 24:00 every night (I designed the task and process).
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Locuus
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Subject:
OnStar keeps tracking you, even after canceling
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Not to get all paranoid, but OnStar is one of the best "Big Brother" technologies out there.
They can also stop your car.. so yeah you cancel it, but they still track you and can activate it and take control of your vehicle at any time.
Sure it's great for law enforcement, but I think they do not explain all details to their customers. There should be an easy way to turn it off completely from the customer's side.
Definitely something I would not want in my car, but to each their own.
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Men do not differ much about what things they will call evils; they differ enormously about what evils they will call excusable. ~ G. K. Chesterton
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Blisteringballs
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Subject:
OnStar keeps tracking you, even after canceling
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Locuus posted:
Not to get all paranoid, but OnStar is one of the best "Big Brother" technologies out there.
They can also stop your car.. so yeah you cancel it, but they still track you and can activate it and take control of your vehicle at any time.
Sure it's great for law enforcement, but I think they do not explain all details to their customers. There should be an easy way to turn it off completely from the customer's side.
Definitely something I would not want in my car, but to each their own.
You can yank a fuse or two. Not something the laymen would know but it can be done. It isn't strictly integrated into the computer to my knowledge.
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IvanDF
Title: Veni, vidi, vici
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Subject:
OnStar keeps tracking you, even after canceling
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They now sell these at best buy. I dont know how much control these mirror add ons have, but they're expanding beyond GM cars.
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Aerlinthian
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Subject:
OnStar keeps tracking you, even after canceling
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I have no plans to buy a Government Motors car anyway.
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Stormyblade
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Subject:
OnStar keeps tracking you, even after canceling
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You can contact OnStar and have the service completely disconnected from your vehicle, thereby becoming untraceable. Big Brother will work as long as you let him, but you can shut him down.
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Lannai
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Subject:
OnStar keeps tracking you, even after canceling
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Stormyblade posted:
You can contact OnStar and have the service completely disconnected from your vehicle, thereby becoming untraceable. Big Brother will work as long as you let him, but you can shut him down.
If OnStar can "completely" shut you down remotely...they can turn it right back on again. I know for certain that unless you physically disable the components...they can access their equipment any time they choose. LE contacts the company all the time to locate stolen vehicles...even when the "service" has never been used or been requested "turned off."
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Lannai
Fidenian
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Ravynmagi
Title: Moderator
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Dec 23, '01
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User ID: 572,278
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Subject:
OnStar keeps tracking you, even after canceling
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Lannai posted:
Stormyblade posted:
You can contact OnStar and have the service completely disconnected from your vehicle, thereby becoming untraceable. Big Brother will work as long as you let him, but you can shut him down.
If OnStar can "completely" shut you down remotely...they can turn it right back on again. I know for certain that unless you physically disable the components...they can access their equipment any time they choose. LE contacts the company all the time to locate stolen vehicles...even when the "service" has never been used or been requested "turned off."
The point was probably you can contact OnStar and stop your data from being needlessly collected.
And if your vehicle gets stolen, with your consent law enforcement might still be able to use OnStar to recover it for you.
And even possibly with a court order and a body in your trunk, LE might even find your car without your consent.
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Lannai
Posts:
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Oct 7, '04
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User ID: 973,906
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Subject:
OnStar keeps tracking you, even after canceling
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Ravynmagi posted:
Lannai posted:
Stormyblade posted:
You can contact OnStar and have the service completely disconnected from your vehicle, thereby becoming untraceable. Big Brother will work as long as you let him, but you can shut him down.
If OnStar can "completely" shut you down remotely...they can turn it right back on again. I know for certain that unless you physically disable the components...they can access their equipment any time they choose. LE contacts the company all the time to locate stolen vehicles...even when the "service" has never been used or been requested "turned off."
The point was probably you can contact OnStar and stop your data from being needlessly collected.
And if your vehicle gets stolen, with your consent law enforcement might still be able to use OnStar to recover it for you.
And even possibly with a court order and a body in your trunk, LE might even find your car without your consent.
Ravy,
You are the last person I'd attempt to argue semantics with. My point was that the system is NEVER off. If you think otherwise, then you are just naive (and I don't mean that as an insult). Nobody other than yourself is interested in protecting your privacy. A small review of geotracking will convince you of that. Anyone who wants the system disabled should do no less than physically disabling it.
Getting the location of your car takes nothing more than a phone call to 1-888-4onstar. Of course...they charge you for an "activation" fee of course if you aren't a current subscriber 
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Lannai
Fidenian
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Locuus
Posts:
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User ID: 779,440
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Subject:
OnStar keeps tracking you, even after canceling
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Yep, there should be a button, pinhole, plug or something else, that can be easily accessed by the customer and that will mechanically break a connection and de-activate the On Star system. That's the only way to be sure no one can mess with it without your explicit approval.
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Men do not differ much about what things they will call evils; they differ enormously about what evils they will call excusable. ~ G. K. Chesterton
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jarom_td
Posts:
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Subject:
OnStar keeps tracking you, even after canceling
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^ If it were that easy, thief's could easily turn it off and wouldn't have to worry about being tracked or the vehicle being shut off on them.
I agree there should be a way to turn it all the way off. But it shouldn't be so easy a thief could do it while stealing a vehicle.
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Ravynmagi
Title: Moderator
Posts:
29,978
Registered:
Dec 23, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 29,452
User ID: 572,278
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Subject:
OnStar keeps tracking you, even after canceling
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Lannai posted:
Ravynmagi posted:
Lannai posted:
If OnStar can "completely" shut you down remotely...they can turn it right back on again. I know for certain that unless you physically disable the components...they can access their equipment any time they choose. LE contacts the company all the time to locate stolen vehicles...even when the "service" has never been used or been requested "turned off."
The point was probably you can contact OnStar and stop your data from being needlessly collected.
And if your vehicle gets stolen, with your consent law enforcement might still be able to use OnStar to recover it for you.
And even possibly with a court order and a body in your trunk, LE might even find your car without your consent.
Ravy,
You are the last person I'd attempt to argue semantics with. My point was that the system is NEVER off. If you think otherwise, then you are just naive (and I don't mean that as an insult). Nobody other than yourself is interested in protecting your privacy. A small review of geotracking will convince you of that. Anyone who wants the system disabled should do no less than physically disabling it.
Getting the location of your car takes nothing more than a phone call to 1-888-4onstar. Of course...they charge you for an "activation" fee of course if you aren't a current subscriber
Ah crap. I'm sorry. I actually totally agree with you (you could probably see hints of that at the end of my last reply). For some reason I completely misread what Stormyblade was saying. I guess I just had "data collection" on the brain and was thinking he was talking about that.
Yes, OnStar has GPS. GPS remains traceable even without the service subscription, even after data collection has been stopped, that GPS will always be traceable by OnStar.
Regarding what Stormyblade was saying. Having OnStar completely disconnected and becoming untraceable would likely require physically removing the GPS. Do not imagine OnStar would offer that. But maybe the dealership would for a price.
I Googled how to disable the GPS in OnStar. Apparently it's a box that is stored in the trunk and can be disabled by unplugging 3 wires.
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Stormyblade
Posts:
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Dec 20, '01
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Subject:
OnStar keeps tracking you, even after canceling
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Ravynmagi posted:
Lannai posted:
Ravynmagi posted:
[quote=Lannai]If OnStar can "completely" shut you down remotely...they can turn it right back on again. I know for certain that unless you physically disable the components...they can access their equipment any time they choose. LE contacts the company all the time to locate stolen vehicles...even when the "service" has never been used or been requested "turned off."
The point was probably you can contact OnStar and stop your data from being needlessly collected.
And if your vehicle gets stolen, with your consent law enforcement might still be able to use OnStar to recover it for you.
And even possibly with a court order and a body in your trunk, LE might even find your car without your consent.
Ravy,
You are the last person I'd attempt to argue semantics with. My point was that the system is NEVER off. If you think otherwise, then you are just naive (and I don't mean that as an insult). Nobody other than yourself is interested in protecting your privacy. A small review of geotracking will convince you of that. Anyone who wants the system disabled should do no less than physically disabling it.
Getting the location of your car takes nothing more than a phone call to 1-888-4onstar. Of course...they charge you for an "activation" fee of course if you aren't a current subscriber
Ah crap. I'm sorry. I actually totally agree with you (you could probably see hints of that at the end of my last reply). For some reason I completely misread what Stormyblade was saying. I guess I just had "data collection" on the brain and was thinking he was talking about that.
Yes, OnStar has GPS. GPS remains traceable even without the service subscription, even after data collection has been stopped, that GPS will always be traceable by OnStar.
Regarding what Stormyblade was saying. Having OnStar completely disconnected and becoming untraceable would likely require physically removing the GPS. Do not imagine OnStar would offer that. But maybe the dealership would for a price.
I Googled how to disable the GPS in OnStar. Apparently it's a box that is stored in the trunk and can be disabled by unplugging 3 wires.[/quote]
This same topic came up on ACF board. The thing is, if you buy a car that has Onstar, even if you don't pay for the service, OnStar can still (and does!) receive information about your vehicle and then sell this information to 3rd parties, without even asking for your consent. However, you can contact Onstar and tell them to "shut down" your vehicle so they are no longer receiving any information. Some people were freaking because Onstar can tell if you are speeding, whether or not you are using a seatbelt, etc...things that maybe law enforcement personnel would be interested in knowing.
Like you guys are saying, if you trust that the system would never be turned on again at the request of any agency, that is naive. However, if you think that removing vital components from OnStar prevents you from being traced, think again as you have other devices on you that are traceable -- hint, cell phone and built-in GPS.
My point was just that you can contact OnStar and by your request they will turn off the system on your vehicle. That's it.
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