Ookane
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Anyone going or know someone who is? Starts tomorrow @9am PDT in Anaheim, CA
I look for a lot of info coming out, the blog that VP Steven Sinofsky has been posting (referred to in other threads recently) has been showing off some nice stuff - the latest was a ~8 second boot time of a Win8 PC using a SSD and UEFI instead of standard BIOS:
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/09/08/delivering-fast-boot-times-in-windows-8.aspx
Who knew that checking the box on bootup initially which asks about if you want to send data to MS to help make the product better would actually be parsed and used to this level?
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Ookane
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Lots of new info and data out - I hope you are watching the stream of the keynote, or already watched it. Hard to believe not a single post on this with the sheer volume of info and changes shown, I guess no one really cares?
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jarom_td
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Ookane posted:
I guess no one really cares?
I'm happy with Win7. So I guess you can say I don't really care at this point. Once it's released, or at least has gone gold, I might care a little.
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Ookane
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Well I suppose if anyone gets too bored, they can install the Developers Preview build (from MS, not a hacked/torrent version) and try it out tonight - http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/09/ 13/welcome-to-windows-8-the-developer-preview.aspx
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larsenex
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I am very happy with Win 7 64 Pro. With that said what are some features that I must have that will compel me to rush out and get Windows 8?
Will Win 8 be 64 bit?
Will Win 8 have the same features that I enjoy with Win 7 or is it a total revamp?
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Lokkie_the_Fierce
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Everything I've read over the last few months just looks like iOS to me which, while great on a tablet, I have no interest in for a desktop.
I know theres the ability to use the "normal" Win UI ... but reports are slim. Once I read more about it, maybe then I'll be interested.
For now, zero interest. Win7 is great.
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Ravynmagi
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Ookane posted:
Well I suppose if anyone gets too bored, they can install the Developers Preview build (from MS, not a hacked/torrent version) and try it out tonight - http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/09/ 13/welcome-to-windows-8-the-developer-preview.aspx
It's up now. I'm downloading a copy.
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Ravynmagi
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I was busy earlier and couldn't really watch or follow the keynote. I'm watching it now, about 2/3rds into it now.
I am extremely excited about what I'm seeing. Will post more when I'm finished watching.
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Ravynmagi
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* Metro is cool.
I'm really impressed with the new Metro UI. It looks like an awesome interface for tablets. And also looks like something that will work really well on desktops with a keyboard and mouse. And the Metro UI is completely hardware accelerated and looked very smooth on tablets.
The Windows 8 Aero or Classic UI is all still there. You can toggle back and forth by just pressing the Windows key. And it swaps between UIs instantly.
* Multiple monitor support amazing!
Wallpapers will span across all the monitors. Task bar shows up on all monitors. You can have your applications icons in the task bar show up on all the monitors or only on the monitor the application is actually running on.
* Windows 8 starts very fast.
If you have a UEFI supported computer, Windows 8 starts extremely quick. And it has a connected idle lower power state that uses very little power and you can resume from instantly.
* App development
I'm not a programmer, I mess around with web development, but I don't do anything like C programming or such. But it looks like they have some really impressive tools for people with just web programming level knowledge to create some really nice applications. Windows 8 has so much built into it that developers don't have to do themselves. And applications can share data with other applications without even needing to be aware of their existence, Windows 8 handles it. Makes me think I could actually make my own applications and upload them to the Windows 8 Store. And the Windows 8 store does have a certification process to ensure what is listed there is safe.
* Windows 8 cloud integration
With your Windows Live account you have a Skydrive. Applications will be able to store settings in that Skydrive, Windows will store settings in that cloud as well. So you can roam between computers and have many of your settings and information follow you. This is really neat. And I'm not sure, but I think you can remote desktop between Live connected computers across firewalls without having to use some personal VPN application like Himachi (not 100% sure), but they definitely showed they were able to access the drives of multiple Windows 8 computers across multiple firewalls that were authenticated with the same Live account. This is great for me as I use my home computer while at work and vice versa and depend on Himachi now to tunnel through the firewalls.
* Windows Defender
Windows Defender is now a full anti virus and anti malware suite. Not sure if that's just Essentials or if it includes even more. But guessing at least Essentials is include. And of course you can use other AV if you wish. I like Essentials so glad to see Defender seems to be including that now.
* Windows 8 uses even less memory.
They showed off a netbook with Windows 7 SP1 using about 440MB of the 1GB RAM installed. Windows 8 Dev Preview was using 280MB on the same netbook. And that's pretty good considering it's still at an early stage, that'll probably get better.
I'm definitely forgetting some other really cool stuff. Was about a 2 and a half hour keynote. Lot of really nice things shown off. Definitely worth a watch, was well done.
This has me really considering not getting the Android 4.0 phone and tablet I was going to get this fall. Windows 8 with the Metro UI on a tablet looks great. Being able to run the same OS on my tablet, home, and work computers, and have everything syncing up together so well, along with a Windows Phone 7.5 has me drooling.
Windows 8 is going to eventually be installed on hundreds of millions of computers around the work. Windows 7 just hit 450 million. So with this huge numbers I don't think I'm going out on a limb to imagine that Windows 8 Store is just going to be flooded with great apps in time and surpass Apple and Android.
Oh that reminds me...
* Windows 8 ARM
Windows 8 runs on ARM but I get the impression you can't use your x86 applications on that. And any Metro style apps made with native languages like C won't run there either. Apps will have to be in either Java, HTML, Silverlight, and he was naming some other language I think began with an X I wasn't familiar with. So the Windows 8 tablets running ARM processors are not going to have access... at least that is how I understood it... to a lot of native Windows x86 applications and even some Windows Metro style apps if they were developed in certain languages.
So you probably won't be playing World of Warcraft on a Tegra 3 processor with Windows 8. But I'm sure most of the apps suited for tablets will probably be done in languages that ARM will support. So may not be that big of a deal.
I downloaded my Dev Preview. Going to load this this up on a laptop tomorrow.
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Ookane
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Lokkie - not much information has been released until today, so it's hard to make an informed opinion until now.
Ravy -
Cloud Integration, RE: remote access. Yes, you will be able to log into other PC's and connect to other drives using LiveID or HomeGroup association for authentication. The encryption and tunneling through NAT, Firewall, etc - is all built in natively. Some of this works now in Win7, it's just never really been advertised much (from Start type in 'Link Live ID' and explore that)
ARM - The idea behind a lot of what Win8 is, is that you develop your apps using HTML5, Silverlight, or JavaScript. These 3 all have x86 (32 and 64 bit) and ARM versions so anything written with these will work seamlessly across all platforms. The bad is that there will not be any translation, so unless something is rewritten specifically for ARM or one of the previously mentioned 3 languages to allow it to run on ARM, that is not currently looking like it will be supported.
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Oh, the new task manager is very cool too. I like how they put CPU usage, disk usage, and network usage together in three simple columns. And the application history lets you seem the cumulative impact apps are having over time.
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Well installed and played with Windows 8 a little bit. This isn't even beta stage yet, it's releasing about a year from now. And so obviously it's pretty rough right now.
I mentioned the Windows key toggles the two UI's. I was wrong about that. The Windows key seems to toggle the Start screen and the last app you were in. There is a "Desktop" tile that takes you to the old UI and so you could toggle back and forth with the Windows key after clicking that Desktop tile.
I was also under the impression I didn't have to use the Metro UI if I didn't want to. That is not the case, there is no way avoiding it. The traditional Start menu is gone. So even if you go to the desktop and the classic UI and click Start, that returns you to the Metro UI. But you can start apps pinned to your Taskbar or shortcuts on your desktop without having to use the Metro Start screen.
Metro UI is working well enough with the keyboard and mouse though. It's a wide horizontal scrolling screen and you can use the mouse wheel to scroll through that or use page up and down on the keyboard.
Sample Metro apps constantly freezing up.
During the keynote they showed a way of rescaling the tiles in Metro. I can't seem to find that setting on this Dev Preview though, so I'm guessing they were using something a bit further along or I'm blind (could be the latter).
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Metro apps are working now after a couple reboots.
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Weird things I've learned...
* Shutdown/Restart
This is kinda hidden under Start, Settings. I guess they figure people will just use their power button instead.
* Search/Apps
Searching and Apps are together. You want to search for something, just starting typing on the keyboard and Metro immediately takes you to the Search screen. If you just want to see all your apps, go to Start, Search. From here you can also pin apps to the Start Page if they aren't already there.
* Removing Pinned Pages in IE 10.
Pinning is easy in IE, unpinning is oddly weird. Go to Start, Search. You'll see http:// addresses listed amongst your apps. There is the option to unpin, but that won't unpin it from IE, instead click remove. Now it's unpinned from IE.
* Restore old Start menu
Go to regedit (just type regedit and search will find the app for you).
Go to HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer
Change RPEnabled from "1" to "0"
And to re-enable the Metro Start again, just change back to "1".
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http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/15/microsofts-metro-style-ie-10-has-seen-the-future-and-its-plug/
Interesting decision by Microsoft. The Metro Internet Explorer will not support plug-ins. No Flash and surprisingly not even Silverlight. Microsoft says HTML5 is good enough and not having plug ins will keep the browser speedy and maintain battery life (probably has a point there).
Fortunately you aren't SOL. If you use IE from the Desktop, you can use plugins there. And other browsers work and support plugins too. So you won't be completely Flashless like some other platform.
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I am in favor of open web standards over proprietary systems so I like this change. I would also think MS would provide some means of migrating Silverlight apps to those developers that have supported the technology. Those are the guys I feel a little bad for, MS courts them to abandon Flash only to abandon them a few years later. The times they are a changin' 
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Ookane
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Tai-Daishar_MT posted:
I am in favor of open web standards over proprietary systems so I like this change. I would also think MS would provide some means of migrating Silverlight apps to those developers that have supported the technology. Those are the guys I feel a little bad for, MS courts them to abandon Flash only to abandon them a few years later. The times they are a changin'
True, but (for now at least) you can still use Silverlight to produce things for Windows Phone, as well as apps for Metro. From what I understand, porting from SL to HTML5 or JavaScript is not very hard either.
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Been using this on a Dell laptop. Now gonna put this on my main computer. I got a Windows 7 and Windows XP partitions. I forgot I still had XP on this machine, so will replace that with Windows 8 now.
Drive has been imaged and backed up.
Prayers to tech gods sent.
Windows 8 copied to USB drive.
Here I go...
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Well I tried. For some odd reason Windows 8 could not load the Intel RAID drivers to see my SSD drives (Windows 7 had no issue with this).
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Ravynmagi posted:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/15/microsofts-metro-style-ie-10-has-seen-the-future-and-its-plug/
Interesting decision by Microsoft. The Metro Internet Explorer will not support plug-ins. No Flash and surprisingly not even Silverlight. Microsoft says HTML5 is good enough and not having plug ins will keep the browser speedy and maintain battery life (probably has a point there).
Fortunately you aren't SOL. If you use IE from the Desktop, you can use plugins there. And other browsers work and support plugins too. So you won't be completely Flashless like some other platform.
What do you mean by Metro IE will not support plug ins, but if you use IE from the desktop plug ins work. Sorry, I don't know anything about Windows 8.
What exactly is the difference between Metro IE and the original IE?
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Ravynmagi
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Jeanysgimp posted:
What do you mean by Metro IE will not support plug ins, but if you use IE from the desktop plug ins work. Sorry, I don't know anything about Windows 8.
What exactly is the difference between Metro IE and the original IE?
Windows 8 uses Internet Explorer 10. When you launch it from the Metro styled Start screen you get the Metro looking touch friendly version of Internet Explorer without any plugins.
If you go to the Desktop and launch Internet Explorer from there, you can a normal looking mouse friendly Internet Explorer browser.
They both seem to run from the same iexplore.exe, but I assume it has two different modes it runs in. And if I open tabs up in the desktop mode, then go to the Metro mode, they are not visible there, so there seems to be quite a bit of separation between the two modes.
Besides the lack of plugins. Metro Internet Explorer runs in a complete full screen (like all Metro styled apps). If you right click a page is brings up the address bar and up top are small preview boxes of other pages you have open.
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Loaded it up in a VM. Used it for 10 minutes or so and saw I had 3 updates. Loaded them and now it won't boot, haha.
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Hmm, might slap it into VirtualBox and give it a go.
Edit: Quick and simple getting it up and running in VB. Will test more tomorrow but first impression is man o man did the iPad scare the bejeezus out of MS
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Ravynmagi posted:
* Windows 8 ARM
Windows 8 runs on ARM but I get the impression you can't use your x86 applications on that. And any Metro style apps made with native languages like C won't run there either. Apps will have to be in either Java, HTML, Silverlight, and he was naming some other language I think began with an X I wasn't familiar with. So the Windows 8 tablets running ARM processors are not going to have access... at least that is how I understood it... to a lot of native Windows x86 applications and even some Windows Metro style apps if they were developed in certain languages.
So you probably won't be playing World of Warcraft on a Tegra 3 processor with Windows 8. But I'm sure most of the apps suited for tablets will probably be done in languages that ARM will support. So may not be that big of a deal.
You are correct, x86 apps will not function on ARM. MS has tried to be very clear about this but I think there will still be many that miss this distinction.
Metro seems to me to be the MS response to iOS. While it can and does run on the desktop, it seems to shine on the tablet. It is designed as a touch first interface and requires apps to be either recompiled and run under an emulator on ARM or rewritten within the new WinRT API environment. Metro apps can be written using JavaScript, HTML/CSS, C/C++, C#, VB, XAML or .NET 4.5. DirectX will handle high poly apps (aka games).
Silverlight is also banished from Metro as the Metro version of IE10 does NOT support addins.
The other side of Win 8 is what is loosely being called Desktop mode. This is more akin to what you are used to today. x86 apps still function here and the desktop version of IE10 supports addins.
.NET has morphed a bit in this new system as well. While you can write apps for either Metro or Desktop using .NET, the Metro implementation uses a smaller subset of the overall library in order to protect the end-user from potential malicious apps.
So basically, an ARM tablet running Metro should provide for the same long battery lives seen on iPads today. The issue however is that you will have to wait for developers to give you anything to do outside of the stock apps provided by MS. This has been, imo, the main reason iPad has so easily dominated the tablet market. They have a clear advantage in number of available apps that Android and Windows have to contend with. I see these appealing to dedicated MS fans that want an iPad but refuse to give Apple any money. MS has previously proven extremely successful when entering the market late (OS, Browser to name a couple) but only time will tell if that works here.
I still get the feeling that MS is considering slapping it on an intel-based (think i5) tablet which will take us right back to where they started in the tablet market. A bigger unit that requires some combination of keyboard/mouse/stylus in order to get the benefit of all the x86 apps it runs all on a unit that might manage to live for 2 hours on a battery charge. That model did not work then and I don't see it working now.
That leaves us with the desktop/laptop markets. There are still, if my memory serves, 4 of these sold for every tablet. I don't think those numbers will change in the short term (next 2-3 years) so handing us a tablet-centric OS is a bold move. Yes, you can get back to the desktop but it has changed quite a bit. It looks the same visually on a cursory glance but it functions differently and will take getting used to. Personally, I am not a fan of the waste of screen real estate I have seen so far. I like my work/play environment to be very clean and neat with an emphasis on minimalism. What I am seeing now deviates from this but maybe further tweaking on my part will solve some/all of this. Then again, I was around when we went from command line to GUI's and I am getting that tingling sense that we may be about to go through a similar transition here from GUI to touch-centric.
Maybe I am just too old a dog to learn these new tricks, time will tell
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I don't really think of the new Start screen as a waste of space. It's just making use of space that wasn't used before.
When you go into you Start menu on Windows 7, you really don't need to see the desktop or running apps in order to select whatever it is you went to the Start menu for. So the Start menu being full screen might be disturbingly different, I don't think it really wastes space or makes the OS less productive.
I do hope they make the Start screen a little more laptop friendly though. Scrolling on a laptop touchpad is a bit awkward for many laptops (assuming it can at all). And Page Up/Down keys on often in weird places. It would be nice if I could also just click on an unused area of the Start screen and drag it to the left or right.
Dual monitors with Windows 8 is really nice. Start screen only shows up the monitor with the Start button on it and you can move that Start button real easy to either screen. You can run your Metro apps on one screen and the regular desktop on the other or desktops on both if you like.
Spanning wallpapers doesn't seem to work that well with two different sized monitors though. Get empty space on the larger monitor.
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Oh yeah, forgot to mention they included an implementation of Hyper-V. This is a much appreciated feature for sure!
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The Hyper-V and Windows Defender are nice add-ons. While I don't miss the start menu per say, I am struggling to get around, and right now I have like 20 programs open with no way to close them except to force quit from the task manager. I ended up turning on desktop icons for "My Computer" and "Control Panel". I find myself making a lot more shortcuts on my taskbar as well.
I like the improved Task Manager, but the new RDC app sucks. Luckily you can still launch the old version by navigating down through the windows/system32 directory for the exe. I haven't figured out the rhyme or reason why sometimes the desktop IE launches when I click a link in an app, and sometime the Metro version launches. VN doesn't appear to work in the metro version either.
I struggled a bit to get vSphere 5 client installed, but compatibility mode saved the day. That always was a great addition (compatibility mode). The Metro UI will be nice for tablets but seems very cumbersome for the desktop, much like OS X's new Launchpad in Lion.
Overall, and yes I know it is a beta, this is Windows 7 RC2 imho.
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Ookane
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Actually it's not even a beta to be honest. The idea behind (and not explained as such) leaving programs open, is that the O/S manages them and after a while they tombstone and are saved to disk, freeing up memory again. The state is saved and any data open will be there still to access when you need it. I'm not sold on this personally, and am on the fence as to if I like removing at least the option for me to control what I want open and not.
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Ravynmagi
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I had to kill that Metro Start screen on my laptop. Just way to awkward to use with a touchpad.
And good news, don't need to use regedit to kill the Start menu anymore if you don't like doing that. There is an tool to modify the Metro UI.
http://www.thewindowsclub.com/metro-ui-tweaker-windows-8-released
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Sprawl-zero1eye-
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Ookane posted:
The idea behind (and not explained as such) leaving programs open, is that the O/S manages them and after a while they tombstone and are saved to disk, freeing up memory again. The state is saved and any data open will be there still to access when you need it. I'm not sold on this personally, and am on the fence as to if I like removing at least the option for me to control what I want open and not.
I get it. I just don't like it for some reason. I'm not convinced it is as good as shutting down the app completely. However, I've been wrong before. 
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Sprawl-zero1eye-
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Ravynmagi posted:
I had to kill that Metro Start screen on my laptop. Just way to awkward to use with a touchpad.
And good news, don't need to use regedit to kill the Start menu anymore if you don't like doing that. There is an tool to modify the Metro UI.
http://www.thewindowsclub.com/metro-ui-tweaker-windows-8-released
Can you kill Metro as the start screen but still access it if you want? Or is it one or the other?
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Locuus
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I know I might be wrong and in any case it's too early to tell, but everything I have seen/read about Win8 with its new Metro UI screams at me "Vista 2!".
How are all these "add hardware", "mouse properties", ..."Folder Options"... various windows you open from Control Panel - are they all resizeable yet? Not being able to resize them, seeing 3-4 truncated lines of information make some of them very cramped an awkward to use. Old Win 95 stuff design remnants need to finally go.
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Sprawl-zero1eye-
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The control panel itself is the same as Windows 7, so far.
There is a new Metro UI control panel that doesn't really have many options yet, and a few are clearly mobile based.
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Sprawl-zero1eye-
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Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:
Ravynmagi posted:
I had to kill that Metro Start screen on my laptop. Just way to awkward to use with a touchpad.
And good news, don't need to use regedit to kill the Start menu anymore if you don't like doing that. There is an tool to modify the Metro UI.
http://www.thewindowsclub.com/metro-ui-tweaker-windows-8-released
Can you kill Metro as the start screen but still access it if you want? Or is it one or the other?
To answer my own question, the Metro UI is an all or nothing deal it appears.
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