Eternal_Midnight posted:

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Character creation was quite good I thought, there is almost infinite variability in character appearances, and lots of control over your look.

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Spookysheep posted:

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Eternal_Midnight posted:

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Character creation was quite good I thought, there is almost infinite variability in character appearances, and lots of control over your look.

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All Rift needs to be is a WoW clone with this very feature and it will be superior to WoW



With that said (to the OP), lots of people here will be trying Rift when it comes out. Stayed tuned for lots of drama!

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Eternal_Midnight posted:

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I only got 2 toons up to level 11 in the last beta event, so take it all with a large grain of salt... Indeed, the highest level anyone has gotten is 27 (out of 50) so we haven't even seen half the content yet.

With that said... the game is pretty clean and bug free, and they are executing their beta test well. The graphics are great, but remember that this doesn't make a game, particularly not an MMO. You'd need a very up to date computer to get top of the line graphical preformance.

The talent system (I mean soul system) is good, and varied, and should provide for wide variety in characters. However, with that said, each talent tree (I mean soul tree) looks very similar to WoW pre 4.0. Spend points, get 3% more damage or add 2% to damage reduction. Some talents could have been quite literally lifted from WoW.

I also believe, based only on speculation, that they will be facing serious balance issues at higher levels. My level 11 Mage had no less than FOUR different instant cast spells. 2 had no cooldowns other than the global. One had an addition pushback effect. One had an additional DoT effect. This is in addition to 2 regularly cast spells with larger damage. I didn't even get the main focus of my chosen talents (I mean souls) which was going to be AE CC spells. Oh yeah, and I also had a pet. Based on this, I forsee serious, serious balance problems.

The much ballyhoo-ed Rifts are actually identical to Public Quests in Warhammer. Stages, kill smaller mobs in early stages, working towards a boss to close the rift. It's a better execution of this mechanic than WAR, but just wanted to be clear on what they actually were.

Everything will feel very familiar to WoW fans. The options interface is disturbingly similar - right down to individual options and checkboxes. Crafting, at least the gathering professions, are identical - yes, it takes 75 points to reach the next skill level.

I made 2 different toons of different races with the Horde (I mean Defiant). Both of them progressed through the same starter area, which uses the same questing system as Cataclysm. That is to say, it's directed, and you follow a path of quests through the content. I doubt that they use any sort of phasing technology, but it's definitely directed gameplay.

I am not sure if they intend to have different starter areas for each race, but again, my two toons did the same area, and exactly the same quests. This would be a major downfall for long term viability.

Character creation was quite good I thought, there is almost infinite variability in character appearances, and lots of control over your look.

To me it seems like what Trion is doing is trying to do what Blizzard did 6 years ago: take all the good stuff out of current games and put it together in a new package with new shiny colours. It's a very close mashup of WAR and WoW. WAR contributes the public quests and feeling of constant war in the world, WoW contributes a lot of systems, talent trees, crafting, and general interface.

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Spookysheep posted:

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Which I think also solves the linear nature of the quests. In WoW, alts sucks because everything except instancing is on rails.

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Thericia posted:

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I've beta'd just about ever new MMO since WoW launched, and rift is the only one i've logged into a second time.

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Thericia posted:

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Korrigan and I go round and round relatively often, I think it's a game between us.

I'm enjoying Rift, and I think i'm just more excited that my wife enjoys it.

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Arcilite_I posted:

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Korrigan is french for fanboi

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wowplayer321 posted:

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I have read everything there is avaliable on the web about Rift.

They have never said that PvP will be balanced. That have, in fact, stated that they are NOT going to try and balance PvP.

If you look at the sheer number of combination's of soul trees, it should be obvious that this is an impossible task, to even the most casual of followers of this game.

If you are looking for balanced PvP Rift is not for you.

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Grimlik posted:

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Rift will be a fantastic PVE game. I have severe doubts about PVP.

No developer to date A team or not has yet to be able to balance a class based PVP system. Not a single one...

I doubt Trion will fair any better.

So the game's PVE will need to carry it far.

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wowplayer321 posted:

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I have read everything there is avaliable on the web about Rift.

They have never said that PvP will be balanced. That have, in fact, stated that they are NOT going to try and balance PvP.

If you look at the sheer number of combination's of soul trees, it should be obvious that this is an impossible task, to even the most casual of followers of this game.

If you are looking for balanced PvP Rift is not for you.

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Arcilite_I posted:

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Grimlik posted:

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Rift will be a fantastic PVE game. I have severe doubts about PVP.

No developer to date A team or not has yet to be able to balance a class based PVP system. Not a single one...

I doubt Trion will fair any better.

So the game's PVE will need to carry it far.

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Newsflash, hero: Trion isn't chasing balanace, because they realize it doesn't exist.

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Arcilite_I posted:

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Technically 9 souls, 8 PvE and 1 PvP

souls are talent tree/subclasses

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Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:

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It's a WoW clone at the basis. So if that doesn't appeal to you, then you won't like it.

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Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:

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They gonna have PvE and PvP rulesets. After playing DCUO on a PvP server, I think I'm gonna do PvP this time around. I've always been a carebear, so it should be interesting. I think it is for me though. I loved the thrill on DCUO, provided it isn't too much griefing.

They do have Warfronts, the two they showed were AB and (forgive me for the horrible slang term) "smear the queer", so far.

Seems like all zones are PvP, but they had some problems on the beta with people griefing by going into the middle of a RIFT PvE struggle, and flagging themselves to get hit by AoE. Not sure how they addressed it...

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Auenwing posted:

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Seriously, I understand for some players that would be an issue. I'm looking for things like: requires upgrade in PCs, forced grouping, non-stop drop everything for the good of the realm...

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Eternal_Midnight posted:

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Auenwing posted:

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Seriously, I understand for some players that would be an issue. I'm looking for things like: requires upgrade in PCs, forced grouping, non-stop drop everything for the good of the realm...

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I would think for you, Auen, that there are only 3 races, and only 1 starter zone per faction (not per race, per faction, ie: one for horde, one for alliance) would be a pretty big drawback. You follow a quest path right from the start, and at level 11 I will still on that path.

I heard in chat during beta that people were running out of quests in the 16-20 range. I didn't know if this meant that they had grinded or did rifts or bg's (warfronts) to get additional experience. Again here, it's important to remember that NO ONE in the general population has seen any content beyond level 27. There is a whole lot of game that we haven't seen yet, including the all important end-game.

I also heard in chat that the PvP was pretty boring. I only got to do one Warfront but I was low level in the range, and there isn't any equalizing factor like in WAR. A Warfront is an instanced Battleground experience (ala WoW), and nothing more. Although it happened that the one I did was very similar to a WAR scenario - one guy holds the flag and the whole other team tries to kill him.

The combat felt a little slow to me, and the interface was generally clunky. I chalk that up to being a new game. The polish and responsiveness tends to come with time.

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Eternal_Midnight posted:

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Auenwing posted:

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Seriously, I understand for some players that would be an issue. I'm looking for things like: requires upgrade in PCs, forced grouping, non-stop drop everything for the good of the realm...

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I would think for you, Auen, that there are only 3 races, and only 1 starter zone per faction (not per race, per faction, ie: one for horde, one for alliance) would be a pretty big drawback. You follow a quest path right from the start, and at level 11 I will still on that path.

I heard in chat during beta that people were running out of quests in the 16-20 range. I didn't know if this meant that they had grinded or did rifts or bg's (warfronts) to get additional experience. Again here, it's important to remember that NO ONE in the general population has seen any content beyond level 27. There is a whole lot of game that we haven't seen yet, including the all important end-game.

I also heard in chat that the PvP was pretty boring. I only got to do one Warfront but I was low level in the range, and there isn't any equalizing factor like in WAR. A Warfront is an instanced Battleground experience (ala WoW), and nothing more. Although it happened that the one I did was very similar to a WAR scenario - one guy holds the flag and the whole other team tries to kill him.

The combat felt a little slow to me, and the interface was generally clunky. I chalk that up to being a new game. The polish and responsiveness tends to come with time.

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Auenwing posted:

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FYI:

Found the answer: apparently requires 5 players to form a guild and 10g at the major city/hub (not sure what to call it). Works like WoW, and Daoc, and EQ2, grab a charter, get sigs.

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Arcilite_I posted:

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Grimlik posted:

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Rift will be a fantastic PVE game. I have severe doubts about PVP.

No developer to date A team or not has yet to be able to balance a class based PVP system. Not a single one...

I doubt Trion will fair any better.

So the game's PVE will need to carry it far.

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Newsflash, hero: Trion isn't chasing balanace, because they realize it doesn't exist.

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Thericia posted:

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Also, with the soul system, there are 336 different rogues, 336 different warriors, mages and clerics, and I don't really forsee a "cookie cutter" problem as so many souls handle different situations.

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Voqar posted:

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Why do I find it entertaining that people would select their game based on what they can do with character appearance and graphics vs gameplay and content? So many horrific MMOs come out with slick graphics and character appearances and suck miserably. (RIFT doesn't seem to ONLY have graphics going for it.)

Thericia posted:

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Also, with the soul system, there are 336 different rogues, 336 different warriors, mages and clerics, and I don't really forsee a "cookie cutter" problem as so many souls handle different situations.

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In AC there were no classes and tons of potential variety, yet most players gravitated to a very few commonly accepted best templates. Or they were noobs.

In WoW before the talent rape of 4.x there was lots of potential for variety, but most players uses commonly accepted best specs based on the type of content they did. I'd guess this is one reason the talents were raped - why provide the potential for variety when deviating made you subpar or look like an idiot?

It won't matter if there's thousands of choices - the majority of players will determine and pick what's best. It has and will always be this way.

RIFT doesn't sound bad but if it looks and plays like WoW with just a few twists and a different storyline it likely won't be that big of a deal. It would take some doing to come up with lore and a storeline that can compete with Blizzard, since bliz have always been some of the best writers in gaming.

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Arcilite_I posted:

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The beauty of Rift's soul system is that any time an OP spec pops up someone will create a spec that trumps it.

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DunesVladHarkonnen posted:

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1 week until the next Beta

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Fuury posted:

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DunesVladHarkonnen posted:

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1 week until the next Beta

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The more I read up on this game the more I am liking what it offers. Maybe I will do a pre-order and give the beta a try.

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Arcilite_I posted:

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The beauty of Rift's soul system is that any time an OP spec pops up someone will create a spec that trumps it.

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Auenwing posted:

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Well, I confess. I said I wouldn't jump into beta and that it would be months out before I could really play. The second part still holds true, but I went ahead and pre-ordered after spending a huge part of the weekend doing research, reading through forums and reports and all the posts here. The itch to help test was that strong. Trying to figure out how I can squeeze it in.... I may have to fire up the coffeemaker...

So I may or may not see some of you guys in beta!

/crazy old lady with fingers crossed

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Eternal_Midnight posted:

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I only got 2 toons up to level 11 in the last beta event, so take it all with a large grain of salt... Indeed, the highest level anyone has gotten is 27 (out of 50) so we haven't even seen half the content yet.

With that said... the game is pretty clean and bug free, and they are executing their beta test well. The graphics are great, but remember that this doesn't make a game, particularly not an MMO. You'd need a very up to date computer to get top of the line graphical preformance.

The talent system (I mean soul system) is good, and varied, and should provide for wide variety in characters. However, with that said, each talent tree (I mean soul tree) looks very similar to WoW pre 4.0. Spend points, get 3% more damage or add 2% to damage reduction. Some talents could have been quite literally lifted from WoW.

I also believe, based only on speculation, that they will be facing serious balance issues at higher levels. My level 11 Mage had no less than FOUR different instant cast spells. 2 had no cooldowns other than the global. One had an addition pushback effect. One had an additional DoT effect. This is in addition to 2 regularly cast spells with larger damage. I didn't even get the main focus of my chosen talents (I mean souls) which was going to be AE CC spells. Oh yeah, and I also had a pet. Based on this, I forsee serious, serious balance problems.

The much ballyhoo-ed Rifts are actually identical to Public Quests in Warhammer. Stages, kill smaller mobs in early stages, working towards a boss to close the rift. It's a better execution of this mechanic than WAR, but just wanted to be clear on what they actually were.

Everything will feel very familiar to WoW fans. The options interface is disturbingly similar - right down to individual options and checkboxes. Crafting, at least the gathering professions, are identical - yes, it takes 75 points to reach the next skill level.

I made 2 different toons of different races with the Horde (I mean Defiant). Both of them progressed through the same starter area, which uses the same questing system as Cataclysm. That is to say, it's directed, and you follow a path of quests through the content. I doubt that they use any sort of phasing technology, but it's definitely directed gameplay.

I am not sure if they intend to have different starter areas for each race, but again, my two toons did the same area, and exactly the same quests. This would be a major downfall for long term viability.

Character creation was quite good I thought, there is almost infinite variability in character appearances, and lots of control over your look.

To me it seems like what Trion is doing is trying to do what Blizzard did 6 years ago: take all the good stuff out of current games and put it together in a new package with new shiny colours. It's a very close mashup of WAR and WoW. WAR contributes the public quests and feeling of constant war in the world, WoW contributes a lot of systems, talent trees, crafting, and general interface.

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Fuury posted:

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DunesVladHarkonnen posted:

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1 week until the next Beta

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The more I read up on this game the more I am liking what it offers. Maybe I will do a pre-order and give the beta a try.

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Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:

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PvP is like wow, two factions, not open ffa.

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Jyiiga posted:

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I liked this video review.

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TinMan52 posted:

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Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:

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PvP is like wow, two factions, not open ffa.

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The first developer to do FFA or at least more than 2 factions correctly is going to have a huge hit on their hands.

I think the two faction system is tired, lazy and provides for as many design problems as it solves. I wish developers could move beyond good/evil and find some of the more interesting grey areas ... or at least let the player base create some.

I play for the story, but MMOs have become too structured. I admit, it's hard to see until it happens in the game you play. I don't want a sandbox, but a little more freedom would certainly make things more interesting.

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Malachi256 posted:

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Someone really needs to do an overhaul on the VN boards. There's a bunch of games missing, and there are a bunch of boards for games that are non-existant.

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Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:

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I keep hearing about the three faction system, yet when I visit DAoC boards, it looks like the two underdogs just team up with the big boy making a two faction system that has some betrayal and backstabbing involved. Doesn't sound any more balanced to me, but perhaps I don't get it.

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vn_lordmacabre posted:

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Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:

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I keep hearing about the three faction system, yet when I visit DAoC boards, it looks like the two underdogs just team up with the big boy making a two faction system that has some betrayal and backstabbing involved. Doesn't sound any more balanced to me, but perhaps I don't get it.

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It adds a really great dynamic to PvP. A whole other level of unpredictability.

DAoC with only two realms wouldn't have been nearly as much fun.

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Auenwing posted:

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Agreed. The Third faction added an unknown unpredictable quality to the game. When the factions were fairly balanced, you didn't know who was going to "go for the gold" on a relic grab. When they started to tilt a little out of proportion, sometimes the 2 "underdogs" could team up (understanding this is all supposedly happening without ability to "communicate" between factions) and take on the 3rd. Sometimes this was an accidental "piling on" in the heat of battle (2 factions engaged, the third sees an opening/weakness and goes for it.) And the "alliances" could shift because they weren't actually "real". In the end, each faction needed to win to gain control / access to a dungeon (and improved realm "buffs") that helped with items/leveling/economy, so there wasn't benefit in helping the other weaker faction except to momentarily break the stranglehold the "big boy" faction had.

bottom line: it kept the back-and-forth between just 2 from being "stale".

I am hoping in Rift, that the invasion of NPCs (if I'm understanding it right) will add that psuedo-3rd-faction feel of unpredictability.

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Ayadread posted:

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Sadly, I don't think there will be another pvp game that can match Daoc during its prime.

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The_Korrigan posted:

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DAoC was a PvP game?
I though Mythic themself called it "RvR", which is basically "level to max in safety and then kill others in canned PvP spots".

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The_Korrigan posted:

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There's more PvP on a WoW PvP server than there ever was in DAoC (except possibly Mordred, but we know how well that server did). At least past level 20, you aren't safe anymore, and you have no choice but to "risk your life". In DAoC, you could just chicken out in safe places until you were level 50 and over-geared.

But I guess different people have different definitions of "good PvP"... for some, canned RvR is the best thing ever. Most UO / AC1 veterans seem to think differently, though. For me, DAoC was just as bad, if not worse than WoW's PvP on a PvE server. Worse because it was way more unbalanced than WoW has ever been. At least WoW delivers "canned PvP", but attempts to balance numbers on both sides.

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Errtuu posted:

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The_Korrigan posted:

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There's more PvP on a WoW PvP server than there ever was in DAoC (except possibly Mordred, but we know how well that server did). At least past level 20, you aren't safe anymore, and you have no choice but to "risk your life". In DAoC, you could just chicken out in safe places until you were level 50 and over-geared.

But I guess different people have different definitions of "good PvP"... for some, canned RvR is the best thing ever. Most UO / AC1 veterans seem to think differently, though. For me, DAoC was just as bad, if not worse than WoW's PvP on a PvE server. Worse because it was way more unbalanced than WoW has ever been. At least WoW delivers "canned PvP", but attempts to balance numbers on both sides.

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Ummm. "PvP" on WoW PVP servers involves a lot of gray ganking and very fiew fair fights. That has little to do with skill, communication, organization...

DAOC RvR was about large scale battles with objectives that impacted the realm. Sure, it wasn't perfect (balance was always an issue), but it was fun... and realm pride existed. Wow is instanced BGs where you capture a flag (like Unreal Tournament derp) or PVE the final boss. Even the DAOC BGs were pretty incredible--all the server's characters in that level range were in the same place waging epic battles and assaulting and defending the keep.

I really didn't intend to derail a pretty good RIFT discussion with my nostalgia /facepalm.

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Boone-Eldar posted:

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I am having major Deja Vu reading this thread. I swear I have read the exact same conversation before.

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Elkabong08 posted:

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Boone-Eldar posted:

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I am having major Deja Vu reading this thread. I swear I have read the exact same conversation before.

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Well, IMO that's because there is currently a fair amount of dissatisfacion with WoW amongst the board members and they are, once again, looking for something new. So far, nothing has measured up, but it won't (and shouldn't) keep people from searching.

I recently returned to WoW after playing pretty much every MMO out there, and once again find myself underwhelmed by WoW. In spite of being burned several times, I will most likely be trying a new MMO, Rift is currently the leading candidate.

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The_Korrigan posted:

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Because it's new. Shiny.
People were thinking the same about Conan, Warhammer, etc... and guess where they came back after a month or two?
Leveling and quests are less imaginative and varied than WoW, you have none of the variations WoW introduced over the years.
You guys hate "kill 10 wolves and bring me their tails" in WoW? That's ALL what Rift is about. For now, of course.
I liked the stability and the "new" setting, but it's way too linear and boring to keep my interest any longer.

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Trigeminal posted:

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Rift beta is a more polished game than WoW. My only concern with the game is what do people do at end-game? I've never been good at guessing that from betas in other games. Time will tell I guess. I found the leveling more fun.

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Grimlik posted:

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What? I am tired of WoW myself, but Rift does not have the same Polish as WoW.

Not even close.

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Trigeminal posted:

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- better graphics (Not even close.)

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Trigeminal posted:

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- less lag (WoW may just be odd software glitches and not true lag. I'm not sure.)

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Trigeminal posted:

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- customizable UI (WoW needs addons to get what most people want.)

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Trigeminal posted:

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What is your definition of polish in a game?

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nez34 posted:

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Rift is far more polished in beta than wow was at its release.

You can't compare a games polish that is still in beta to a game that has been out for 6 years.

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KainetheDragoon posted:

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"WoW in beta was smooth as silk."

Really? I guess smooth was taking 4 minutes to loot a small green bag.

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Nakal posted:

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I will say Rift is far more polished than other MMO's that have started the last few years.

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The_Korrigan posted:

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KainetheDragoon posted:

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"WoW in beta was smooth as silk."

Really? I guess smooth was taking 4 minutes to loot a small green bag.

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You confuse beta and release. There was no loot lag in beta. Loot lag came at release when the servers were assaulted.

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Festus_Stundagin posted:

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The_Korrigan posted:

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KainetheDragoon posted:

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"WoW in beta was smooth as silk."

Really? I guess smooth was taking 4 minutes to loot a small green bag.

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You confuse beta and release. There was no loot lag in beta. Loot lag came at release when the servers were assaulted.

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Now you're just out and out showing how clueless you are. loot lag was in existence during beta long before it was ever released. I still remember to this very day playing my gnome warlock in loch modan I guess it was, wherever the dwarven place is after you leave the wintery area. I sat there hour after hour trying to loot things and couldn't because I would just stick there. Then when I would go to move I'd hover across the ground rubberbanding before I came back to that spot and actually managed to loot something.


So yes, this problem was very real and in existence before release.

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Auenwing posted:

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Loot lag existed in stress test.

Technically, that is part of beta, pre-release.


Objectively, there are many things both good and bad about all the MMOs I have ever played. Intelligence would recognize this is so. Just as intelligence recognizes the ability to understand and accept that multiple games can exist side by side and that they can offer entertainment without the need to create the illusion of an "enemy" to tear down...either in the form of the the other game, or the person describing it.

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Auenwing posted:

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Loot lag existed in stress test.

Technically, that is part of beta, pre-release.


Objectively, there are many things both good and bad about all the MMOs I have ever played. Intelligence would recognize this is so. Just as intelligence recognizes the ability to understand and accept that multiple games can exist side by side and that they can offer entertainment without the need to create the illusion of an "enemy" to tear down...either in the form of the the other game, or the person describing it.

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Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:

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As I've said before, I will say it again. RIFT is very much like WoW in many ways. What sets it apart from me is that I can finally build a character, any character I want, and do some new but familiar things.

If anyone is expecting a whole new game that will blow WoW away, it won't happen. RIFT is built on the successes of WoW, not built to beat it.

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Slors posted:

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My Beta was better than your Beta!!!! What a dumb argument.

Clearly Rift runs, which means it will get out the door. Next step is people playing to find out what endgame is like b/c nobody knows jack about it and thus is pretty pointless to even call it a game atm. WoW is old and will eventually fall....snip

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Auenwing posted:

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Guildmate and I are having fun atm playing with the soul planner and speculating how we can use interweaving abilities. For us, that's half the game right there... the planning.

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Auenwing posted:

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Loot lag existed in stress test.

Technically, that is part of beta, pre-release.


Objectively, there are many things both good and bad about all the MMOs I have ever played. Intelligence would recognize this is so. Just as intelligence recognizes the ability to understand and accept that multiple games can exist side by side and that they can offer entertainment without the need to create the illusion of an "enemy" to tear down...either in the form of the the other game, or the person describing it.

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The_Korrigan posted:

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Well I was in beta for a long time, so you can tell your fairy tales to other gullible people, but not to me.
Keep trying though.

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Festus_Stundagin posted:

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Auenwing posted:

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Loot lag existed in stress test.

Technically, that is part of beta, pre-release.


Objectively, there are many things both good and bad about all the MMOs I have ever played. Intelligence would recognize this is so. Just as intelligence recognizes the ability to understand and accept that multiple games can exist side by side and that they can offer entertainment without the need to create the illusion of an "enemy" to tear down...either in the form of the the other game, or the person describing it.

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Thank you. There were 2 sress tests. In both stress tests this issue was evident.

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The_Korrigan posted:

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Oh yes, there was loot lag in the stress tests just before release, after the end of beta, when they let everybody and his dog in the game and the servers were overcrowded... no [tos_quoted violation], sherlock?
As I said, nice try - try again.

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Errtuu posted:

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Auenwing posted:

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Guildmate and I are having fun atm playing with the soul planner and speculating how we can use interweaving abilities. For us, that's half the game right there... the planning.

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Ooo, I'm intrigued. Can you cite a few examples? I love finding synergies between classes/specs! I play with my son, so we're always playing together (either with friends and often duoing).

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Trigeminal posted:

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Grimlik posted:

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What? I am tired of WoW myself, but Rift does not have the same Polish as WoW.

Not even close.

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- better graphics (Not even close.)
- less lag (WoW may just be odd software glitches and not true lag. I'm not sure.)
- customizable UI (WoW needs addons to get what most people want.)
- etc.

What is your definition of polish in a game?

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Malachi256 posted:

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Having browsed the 'soul' calculator at Zam a little bit... I can only imagine that balancing this game is going to be nigh impossible. It'll be very interesting to see what happens, assuming the game is good enough for enough people to actually get to and care about the end-game.

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Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:

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Malachi256 posted:

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Having browsed the 'soul' calculator at Zam a little bit... I can only imagine that balancing this game is going to be nigh impossible. It'll be very interesting to see what happens, assuming the game is good enough for enough people to actually get to and care about the end-game.

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I'm not sure it needs to be balanced, but that sometimes differs with opinion. As someone that enjoys playing the underdog at times, I personally don't need a perfectly balanced game. I have the choice to choose the overpowered class, if I want, and I do sometimes as well.

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Auenwing posted:

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Rolled 7 different class/combos...

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Officer_Bob posted:

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I've been following the game for about a year now, and have been in every beta event and I cant freaking wait until Feb 24th to get here (head start). They didn't re invent the wheel nor did they ever claim they were going to. What they do they do it very well, the Rift's are great fun, the soul system is brilliant and the graphics are insanely nice. Along with the fact that it plays like it's been out for years. I do wish people would stop saying it stole this and this from x mmo.. all mmos for the most part have stolen ideas from other mmos. Trion takes ideas were all familiar with and expands them in their own way, and it works very well in my opinion. The soul system is what I'm loving the most, the extent of flexibility is unreal. Anyways, I think it's a great game and have already pre ordered it but, that's just me, different strokes for different folks.

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The_Korrigan posted:

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There's more PvP on a WoW PvP server than there ever was in DAoC (except possibly Mordred, but we know how well that server did). At least past level 20, you aren't safe anymore, and you have no choice but to "risk your life". In DAoC, you could just chicken out in safe places until you were level 50 and over-geared.

But I guess different people have different definitions of "good PvP"... for some, canned RvR is the best thing ever. Most UO / AC1 veterans seem to think differently, though. For me, DAoC was just as bad, if not worse than WoW's PvP on a PvE server. Worse because it was way more unbalanced than WoW has ever been. At least WoW delivers "canned PvP", but attempts to balance numbers on both sides.

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The_Korrigan posted:

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People in WoW, at least on my server, regularly drop everything they do to defend Tol Barad (and before, Wintergrasp).
The "lets get a late night sneak on relics" is one of the lamest PvP mechanic I've ever seen in a game... talk about encouraging the "no life" and giving them an edge. You realize you got CALLS in the middle of the NIGHT to wake up and play a video game? Do you have a job you have to attend to in the morning? People complain about the difficulty of WoW heroic dungeons and how they are negative (supposedly) for casuals (poor casuals... they are confused with bad players), but being called to wake up in the middle of the night to play a video game beats that largely.
And World PvP WAS totally nonexistent in DAoC. PvP was ONLY in specific areas. Except on Mordred of course.

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Chalyndra posted:

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Heck we would get calls from guildies in the middle of the night, "They're trying a late night sneak attack on the relics get on", sometimes.

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Chalyndra posted:

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Yes, I have a career and worked when I played DAOC...

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The_Korrigan posted:

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People in WoW, at least on my server, regularly drop everything they do to defend Tol Barad (and before, Wintergrasp).

The "lets get a late night sneak on relics" is one of the lamest PvP mechanic I've ever seen in a game... talk about encouraging the "no life" and giving them an edge. You realize you got CALLS in the middle of the NIGHT to wake up and play a video game? Do you have a job you have to attend to in the morning? People complain about the difficulty of WoW heroic dungeons and how they are negative (supposedly) for casuals (poor casuals... they are confused with bad players), but being called to wake up in the middle of the night to play a video game beats that largely.
Any developer worth a grain of salt will never repeat such a "feature" - and indeed, all subsequent PvP games, like e.g. Shadowbane, had time windows in which attacks could happen, stopping a group of "no life" from coming in the middle of the night and destroy everything without any effort.

And World PvP WAS totally nonexistent in DAoC. PvP was ONLY in specific areas. Except on Mordred of course.

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The_Korrigan posted:

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Chalyndra posted:

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Heck we would get calls from guildies in the middle of the night, "They're trying a late night sneak attack on the relics get on", sometimes.

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Chalyndra posted:

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Yes, I have a career and worked when I played DAOC...

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Yes yes yes... any adult with a job won't mind being called in the middle of the night to play a video game, completely breaking his sleep cycle. Nice story, pal.
You liked DAoC, which I also played extensively by the way, so be it. But don't try to pretend such major design flaws in that game were any good, and weren't favoring a specific part of the player population. And it's not the only design flaw of that type, of course... we could talk for hours about things like crowd control, stuns, mezzes...

And since we are talking about Rift, I doubt the developers will make such huge mistakes for their game. Even if what they did until now is pretty basic and "even" less original than WoW, they seem to be wanting to make things right and indeed be the third polished MMO since WoW release, and not a copy of some old, crappy game that was already back in time full of major design flaws.

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Chalyndra posted:

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The_Korrigan posted:

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Chalyndra posted:

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Heck we would get calls from guildies in the middle of the night, "They're trying a late night sneak attack on the relics get on", sometimes.

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Chalyndra posted:

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Yes, I have a career and worked when I played DAOC...

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Yes yes yes... any adult with a job won't mind being called in the middle of the night to play a video game, completely breaking his sleep cycle. Nice story, pal.
You liked DAoC, which I also played extensively by the way, so be it. But don't try to pretend such major design flaws in that game were any good, and weren't favoring a specific part of the player population. And it's not the only design flaw of that type, of course... we could talk for hours about things like crowd control, stuns, mezzes...

And since we are talking about Rift, I doubt the developers will make such huge mistakes for their game. Even if what they did until now is pretty basic and "even" less original than WoW, they seem to be wanting to make things right and indeed be the third polished MMO since WoW release, and not a copy of some old, crappy game that was already back in time full of major design flaws.

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I could care less what you believe about me, but I do mind you saying he I'm a female, my kids are all grown up, my husband & I have been truly blessed in our lives and are retired at 46. I have all the time and leisure in the world to do what I want. The bottom line is, people have the right to their opinions. I can say your game is flawed and you can say the one I really liked is flawed..and we should be able to have a conversation without someone "going 4 year old child" in the discussion and attacking the other person.

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Krul_ posted:

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Well I think Rift is lucky to sorta be in the right place at the right time. It's one of the better of a new crop coming out and it is on schedule. A lot of our guildies are up for trying something new if only for a diversion for a few months. It looks solid enough to represent an alternative, whether it has legs or not remains to be seen. Nobody had seen the endgame and no one really knows whether all this pretty impressive class diversity is actually going to work.

We are wary. A lot of us old vets have been around the block enough times to temper all the hype with realistic expectations.

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The_Korrigan posted:

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Being able to retire at 46 to be able to play video games all night long is definitely something usual, sane and normal, which should be encouraged by game mechanics like being able to take keeps in the middle of the night without defense... I mean, being waked up in the middle of the night to defend a lousy keep in DAoC should be mainstream, every adult can do that, and definitely all 46+ year old people, aren't we are all retired and live happy lives with the government's money ?

Looks like someone needs a reality check. And it's definitely not me.

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Malachi256 posted:

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I had a friend who swore off MMOs largely because of what DAoC did to his life - just what you're describing, the whole getting a call and feeling obligated to log in.

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Fedup23 posted:

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You been drinkin?

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The_Korrigan posted:

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let's start to call the person "a troll" and various other insults.

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Bowdi posted:

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anyone remember that site to see if your pc can run the game?

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Chalyndra posted:

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Just....a.....few....more.....days....then we can play Rift again

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Chalyndra posted:

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He's a bitter, lonely, old troll.

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Spookysheep posted:

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Chalyndra posted:

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He's a bitter, lonely, old troll.

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Every single poster on this board figured this out years ago.

Now his sole purpose is to amuse us with his ramblings.

Sit back and enjoy, it gets even funnier

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