Eternal_Midnight
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At level 82, I am still wearing most of my level 80 northrend gear. I had about a 5800gs before Cata released, and had 3 distinct sets of gear: PvP (6070-ish), Tank (5700-ish), and Damange (5400-ish) and I've found, questing through Vashj'ir, that most of the green level gear is NOT better than any of the stuff I already had. I'm around level 82 I I've maybe replaced 3 or 4 items with quest gear.
Green gear at a similar iLevel is not even comparable to purple gear. Don't change your gear or spend money on the AH just because it's got a higher iLevel!!! I have found gear that might be a 'slight' improvement as far as stats go, but the gear has no mastery or sockets, which for me turns the tide on whether I want to switch or not.
When deciding on gear, don't just base it on iLevel alone!
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kyrv
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Just curious, do you socket gear as you level? I never bother as it gets out-leveled so quickly.
I have noticed in previous expansions though I have found what you did, I ended up with few upgrades til I got to or near max level (despite sort of hints by Blizz to the contrary).
Also fyi someone did note that for clothies Hyjal was much better for early upgrades (not sure what you play). 
(I have CAT not going to 85 just yet though.)
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Eternal_Midnight
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I am a protadin/pvpadin. I've never really done the retadin/dps thing.
None of the standard quest gear/drops have sockets yet. For me that is the deal breaker between switching.
I'm not saying the new gear sucks, I"m just saying that for me, being pretty well geared from before the expansion, I'm not yet seeing the substantially improved gear that I had expected.
Surely that'll come, as I've looked at the higher end gear. I have the feeling, though, that people will switch to a new piece of gear simply because it has a higher iLevel.
(This is the first time I've played a WoW expansion just as it was released.)
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kyrv
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I think I misread part of what you wrote also, you mean current max level gear has sockets and maybe item bonuses, mastery, and the new stuff doesn't - I think, if so yes that's the main difference that has been for me, gear straight stats would be sidegrades or minor upgrades but removing socket/ or set bonus made the current stuff better.
For wotlk I had mostly the same gear at 80 as I did at 70 on my druid and rogue.
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-Spacelord-
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Try instances with that 30k hp. Item level does matter, just check the stats of the item.
I am full of blues and greens at level 83, 4.9k GS but 52k HP 47k Mana Holy priest. Think i better wear my 5.7k gs 80 gear? Stop being gearscore stupid.
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Unstruck
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My priest is going from Tier 6/high end BC gear straight to Cata gear. For me, every piece is a super upgrade. 
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-MrBean-
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My holy pali is going straight from noob 80 the sunday before to 82 and most upgrades. I think I have doubled my mana and hp pool.
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_Taebo_
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At least the new greens look halfway decent. Not tier 10 or ICC quality, but better than previous greens over the years.
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As you get 82+ your 80 gear is not giving you 100% (I don't know the actual break down level to level) stats and equal level gear is beating it out stat wise.
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Rykno
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In Deepholm you'll start replacing gear. The fact is the first 2 zones reward item level 288~ gear which would be statistical upgrades if you invested enchants for them (which most people won't). However Deepholm rewards item level 300+ which is an upgrade even un-enchanted.
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Eternal_Midnight
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Yes I am starting to see that now... deepholme gear being better, that is.
-Spacelord- posted:
Try instances with that 30k hp. Item level does matter, just check the stats of the item.
I am full of blues and greens at level 83, 4.9k GS but 52k HP 47k Mana Holy priest. Think i better wear my 5.7k gs 80 gear? Stop being gearscore stupid.
I actually have about 55k, up to 60k at level 82 with either full (ish) tank or pvp gear.
All my point really is is that just because the iLevel is higher doesn't mean the gear is actually better.
Purple > blue > green at similar iLevels. This is not impacted by trivialities like an expansion.
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Talehon69
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HP scales crazily every level. I have 94k HP unbuffed on my Mage. I had T10 gear on my Mage before Cata, and I replaced every single piece of gear before I hit 84.
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Sprawl-zero1eye-
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Don't forget, you need Mastery.
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jojo263
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people in random group had 30k+ more HP than our tank because he wouldn't get rid of his ICC gear
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Sprawl-zero1eye-
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jojo263 posted:
people in random group had 30k+ more HP than our tank because he wouldn't get rid of his ICC gear
But... but... it's purple!!
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JaredKorry
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Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:
Don't forget, you need Mastery.
What does mastery do?
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Sprawl-zero1eye-
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JaredKorry posted:
Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:
Don't forget, you need Mastery.
What does mastery do?
It is a different bonus depending on class and spec, but it pretty much is the one stat that Blizzard can stack for all classes.
Look on your talent panel to see what boosts you receive.
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heiromancerdrackus
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Eternal_Midnight posted:
At level 82, I am still wearing most of my level 80 northrend gear. I had about a 5800gs before Cata released, and had 3 distinct sets of gear: PvP (6070-ish), Tank (5700-ish), and Damange (5400-ish) and I've found, questing through Vashj'ir, that most of the green level gear is NOT better than any of the stuff I already had. I'm around level 82 I I've maybe replaced 3 or 4 items with quest gear.
Green gear at a similar iLevel is not even comparable to purple gear. Don't change your gear or spend money on the AH just because it's got a higher iLevel!!! I have found gear that might be a 'slight' improvement as far as stats go, but the gear has no mastery or sockets, which for me turns the tide on whether I want to switch or not.
When deciding on gear, don't just base it on iLevel alone!
Until the dungeon finder tells you that you are unable to queue with your current average item level, or you die from splash damage in dungeons because you clung to avoidance / dps stats instead of upgrading your stamina pool. There is more to regearing in Cataclysm than what you let on.
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Hornet_MT
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Im going from a GS of ~5400 on my priest - at level 82 (Hyjal and BRS) I have upgraded mostly WOTLK dungeon gear, but not really the Frost badge gear... in fact I upgraded the ilvl 256 hood, but thats about it. I got a blue drop from 'Beauty' which I thought was comparable to Belt of Omission (frost badge) which I am currently wearing, but it was pretty damn close (in fact a lot of people may not consider it an upgrade).
I have noticed a fairly big shift in HP already... and it does make a difference in BRS - the 3rd boss has to be pulled into a pillar of fire to melt his armour and the AOE damage from that is significant, especially if the tank is stupid... I had several wipes from it yesterday because of dumb tanks and part of the issue is the DPS all having >30k HP still!
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Liquid741
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my un-retired rogue is in full Naxx gear...i cant wait to start dropping that crap off at the vendors for new quest greens!
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Pacorra
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Hornet_MT posted:
the 3rd boss has to be pulled into a pillar of fire to melt his armour and the AOE damage from that is significant, especially if the tank is stupid... I had several wipes from it yesterday because of dumb tanks and part of the issue is the DPS all having >30k HP still!
Yeah a good tank will dip the boss into the pillar quickly enough that it will only do one 800-dmg AOE, the dps health pools are then irrelevant.
But hey, give tanks time to learn the encounter, it's a bit soon to go calling ppl names.
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sarnsereg
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Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:
Don't forget, you need Mastery.
LIES!!!!!!!!
this is only true for some classes and specs. My main's Class/Spec is Druid/Balance. this is a class that has no need of mastery. in fact... according to elitist jerks mastery is probably the least useful skill i could get the only things worse for me are str/agi which give me no benefit.
Right now i just hit level 84 and i'm only now really replacing gear(it started at 83). I had an item level of 271 before Cata so all my gear was 264/277(heroic ilvl i think) and what it came down to was all the greens/blues that were level 80-82 seemed to be on par or slightly better than what i had.. only missing sockets... so no point in using an item that has 20 more intelect and alittle more spirit than what i had when it's 2 sockets short because i could make up those stats and more with the 2 sockets in my ICC/RS gear.
anyways... my real point is that mastery isn't all that great. It's probably the single most imbalanced stat in the game. My frost DK LOVES mastery.. i mean LLLOOOOOOVVVVEEEEEEEESSSSSSSS it.. it's the most amazing thing ever.... unfortunately.. half the classes/spec mastery is fairly useless while the other half it seems it's quite overpowered.
as a boomkin why take mastery for a slight increase in damage when i've got a proc but does nothing for me when i don't have a proc...i guess the question is... right now i get about a 40% damage bonus with how much mastery i currently have.. only this is when i have eclipse procced.. meaning it's only effecting 25% or less of my spells being cast... logic kind of dictates that something like haste or crit that effects all my spellcasts are better... and according to elitist jerks they are... which is quite disappointing.. other classes essentially get just scaling overall dps bumps. frost DK's are one example, each mage spec seems to be this way too (if i'm not mistaken mastery for a mage gives you a % damage increase for spells of your tree so fire gets more fire damage, etc. etc.) some classes end up more a wash where it's good but not really better than other stats then some are like me where mastery is at the bottom of the priority list.
in fact... reforging of mastery to other stats won't be a problem for me it'll be happening.
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--Syrus--
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Well maybe asking that questing greens replace top tier Northrend Epics was a little too much however I suggest running some instances and getting blues.
I've ran quite a few guild runs already and I see my guildies who have raided for some time now replacing many pieces.
I on the other hand am a fresh 80 and had the pleasure of going through the first two instances even before I compelted my first Cata quest. I was in 80 quest greens, lol. Healing it was a challenge but it did help that the guildies I was raiding with did have raiding epics.
We made it through 5 guild runs now, my item level raised from 176 to 223 with in th first 3 runs lol. As mentioned as well, that item level with also prevent you from queuing for dungeons.
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IvanDF
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sarnsereg, I find it funny you yell out "lies" then turn around and say it's true for some classes. Every post I read of yours you think your opinion is fact.
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Dear 81-83 tanks doing instances, I know you have awesome secondary stats in your ICC gear, and I know it pains you to give up some of that for new gear with big primaries but less shiny secondaries and this questionable mastery gimmick, but please, please, consider upgrading some of it. When your 49k having butt, no matter how well hasted and avoidy, runs blindly up the steps in a starrape pack in vortex pinnacle, it doesn't give me a lot of time to heal you when you could have twice the health pool. =)
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Flesh_Wound posted:
Dear 81-83 tanks doing instances, I know you have awesome secondary stats in your ICC gear, and I know it pains you to give up some of that for new gear with big primaries but less shiny secondaries and this questionable mastery gimmick, but please, please, consider upgrading some of it. When your 49k having butt, no matter how well hasted and avoidy, runs blindly up the steps in a starrape pack in vortex pinnacle, it doesn't give me a lot of time to heal you when you could have twice the health pool. =)
Lol yes this. Even in Throne of Tides, those little goblin groups all throw that poison spear as their first attack, tanks are almost getting one hit there have to nature swiftness more often then not.
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--Syrus-- posted:
Flesh_Wound posted:
Dear 81-83 tanks doing instances, I know you have awesome secondary stats in your ICC gear, and I know it pains you to give up some of that for new gear with big primaries but less shiny secondaries and this questionable mastery gimmick, but please, please, consider upgrading some of it. When your 49k having butt, no matter how well hasted and avoidy, runs blindly up the steps in a starrape pack in vortex pinnacle, it doesn't give me a lot of time to heal you when you could have twice the health pool. =)
Lol yes this. Even in Throne of Tides, those little goblin groups all throw that poison spear as their first attack, tanks are almost getting one hit there have to nature swiftness more often then not.
Healing as a Holy pali I have sure as hell notice the difference in pugs between those holding to old gear and those in new gear. The old gear guys are almost down to death by the time my first holy light goes off, and the new gear guys are around 50%
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Eternal_Midnight posted:
At level 82, I am still wearing most of my level 80 northrend gear. I had about a 5800gs before Cata released, and had 3 distinct sets of gear: PvP (6070-ish), Tank (5700-ish), and Damange (5400-ish) and I've found, questing through Vashj'ir, that most of the green level gear is NOT better than any of the stuff I already had. I'm around level 82 I I've maybe replaced 3 or 4 items with quest gear.
Green gear at a similar iLevel is not even comparable to purple gear. Don't change your gear or spend money on the AH just because it's got a higher iLevel!!! I have found gear that might be a 'slight' improvement as far as stats go, but the gear has no mastery or sockets, which for me turns the tide on whether I want to switch or not.
When deciding on gear, don't just base it on iLevel alone!
I don't really agree. If you take diminishing returns into account and do instances, the potential is there so you can replace everything.
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IvanDF
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-Mithan- posted:
Eternal_Midnight posted:
At level 82, I am still wearing most of my level 80 northrend gear. I had about a 5800gs before Cata released, and had 3 distinct sets of gear: PvP (6070-ish), Tank (5700-ish), and Damange (5400-ish) and I've found, questing through Vashj'ir, that most of the green level gear is NOT better than any of the stuff I already had. I'm around level 82 I I've maybe replaced 3 or 4 items with quest gear.
Green gear at a similar iLevel is not even comparable to purple gear. Don't change your gear or spend money on the AH just because it's got a higher iLevel!!! I have found gear that might be a 'slight' improvement as far as stats go, but the gear has no mastery or sockets, which for me turns the tide on whether I want to switch or not.
When deciding on gear, don't just base it on iLevel alone!
I don't really agree. If you take diminishing returns into account and do instances, the potential is there so you can replace everything.
My problem is getting tank stuff to drop =\
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TinMan52
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Eternal_Midnight posted:
At level 82, I am still wearing most of my level 80 northrend gear. I had about a 5800gs before Cata released, and had 3 distinct sets of gear: PvP (6070-ish), Tank (5700-ish), and Damange (5400-ish) and I've found, questing through Vashj'ir, that most of the green level gear is NOT better than any of the stuff I already had. I'm around level 82 I I've maybe replaced 3 or 4 items with quest gear.
Green gear at a similar iLevel is not even comparable to purple gear. Don't change your gear or spend money on the AH just because it's got a higher iLevel!!! I have found gear that might be a 'slight' improvement as far as stats go, but the gear has no mastery or sockets, which for me turns the tide on whether I want to switch or not.
When deciding on gear, don't just base it on iLevel alone!
I saw two problems with the post itself.
1. Using GS
2. Suggesting that people would equip worse gear because the new gear has a higher iLevel
Also, as I understand the gear in Cataclysm, ICC 25 normal gear gets replaced at the beginning of Stonecore and ICC 25 heroic gets replaced around level 84 to the normal level 85 instances ... which seems reasonable.
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Ansithe
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I laugh at idiot obsolete purple geared tanks tanking these new instances at 50k health when dps have 80k health and upgraded cata gear tanks have 100k healths or more.. hilarity really when these "I'm gonna hold my epics longer" tank nearly gets 1 shotted by adds.
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if you are decked out in LK end game purples then will probably only replace a few pieces of gear in the first zone. By the time you run deepholm to completion odds are most all your purples will be replaced with greens and blues.
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Sprawl-zero1eye-
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Reziztance iz Futile
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Subject:
Dispelling A Gear Myth
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It is kinda sick how far the equipment jumps a whole tier going from Deepholm to Uldum.
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vn_cuch
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Subject:
Dispelling A Gear Myth
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Sorry, dont agree with this.
At 83 for my tanking gear. I am still 80% in ICC gear with only a few slots upgraded. But sitting at 79k hps unbuffed.
I am more than happy to change gear, but when you look at the items taking enchants and gems into account the greens are downgrades on most items. iLevel 300+ blues are however very nice and good path of upgrades.
Entering uldum now, so I would expect I should start to upgrade a lot more in this zone.
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Eternal_Midnight
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Subject:
Dispelling A Gear Myth
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Sprawl-zero1eye- posted:
It is kinda sick how far the equipment jumps a whole tier going from Deepholm to Uldum.
My HP increased prolly by about 40% between level 82 and just hitting level 84. I'm over 100k health now, and am finding the regular dungeons easier now. At 82 I struggled in certain pulls with holding aggro on all mobs and living to move further on. Now I have little trouble staying alive, and am just working now on fine tuning the pulls throughout the instances I have access to.
I have little doubt that in a couple of weeks that regular and heroic instances through the dungeon finder will turn into tank and spanks, both as the tank's ability to hold aggro improves, as wel as dps improvements. It seems to me so far that as dps gets higher, the easier instances get.
Those of you that were hoping for a return to a more skilled type of group play are probably just deluding yourselves. In a month or two, Cata will be no different than late-stage WotLK.
It will just be bigger numbers.
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I think Blizzard might have hit a wall with this expansion. They cannot keep feeding us the same old thing. The quests are the same, but with newer tech, the power increase is the same, the gear is bigger but the same, the locations are prettier but the same.
I don't like that we all follow what is ultimately a single path through each of the new zones. Because the quests are all phased, you only can see and interact with those that are in the same phase. Basically we are all playing through mini-levels in a single player game, following the exact same quest path. Sometimes we talk to each other, sometimes we help each other out through an instance or a harder boss for a quest.
It is very clear now why addons like QuestHelper are now meaningless - there is no variation in what quests are taken and where. You have to take every quest in order to open up the phases that reveal the next quests. You simply cannot 'complete' a zone without going through the quest progressions.
Make no mistake, folks. This is the future of MMO's for the next few years. This is the exact style of gameplay that has been coming out of SWToR... lots of sound and cinematics, "interactive" storylines, etc. This is what's it's going to be.
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Shenron_
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Dispelling A Gear Myth
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i have replaced most of my gear already. however i am trying to hang on to old arena gear for the bonuses. something like +10 energy is pretty awesome....hard to weigh that against more dps or hps
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--Syrus--
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Dispelling A Gear Myth
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Yup quite a huge jump and the content demands it too. A couple of guild mates where going through stone core last night. My group died a few times on the last boss, I think mostly because of me. I'm only 81 and have replaced most of my gear, but just from the starting two instances and I'm still only questing in the first zone.
Those adds could take me down pretty quick and I just felt in some cases that my heals should be a little bit bigger. Mana pool wasn't a problem, but I know that I could use a little bit more health and spell power.
We had another group with an 80 tank and 80 healer, they made it through but it wasn't easy.
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Its Hub. 10 week ban for anybody who disagrees. -Mithan-
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Voqar
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Subject:
Dispelling A Gear Myth
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Tank gear mostly sucks in the noob zones and first two instances. Once you get to deepholm, uldum, the 2nd tier instances, you'll start finding some better tank stuff.
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_Kewk_
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Dispelling A Gear Myth
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84.5 I've replaced everything but my relic but that is because nothing has dropped :\
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o-0-Core-0-o
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Dispelling A Gear Myth
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Yeah get the health, its needed :P
I am a level 84 druid tank with mostly deephlm+blues. I have a new respect for current healers  our resto druid was blowing through mana pretty quick last night keeping folks up. I can't wait till 85 and a few more pieces of gear to do heroics.
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--Syrus--
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Subject:
Dispelling A Gear Myth
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o-0-Core-0-o posted:
Yeah get the health, its needed :P
I am a level 84 druid tank with mostly deephlm+blues. I have a new respect for current healers our resto druid was blowing through mana pretty quick last night keeping folks up. I can't wait till 85 and a few more pieces of gear to do heroics.
As a healer, when you mentioned heroics, I think I puked in my mouth a little bit.
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Common Sense is a myth..
Its Hub. 10 week ban for anybody who disagrees. -Mithan-
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