.Juzam.
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Amendial
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Brett Farve, my favorite guy to talk about. In the interest of not starting CB Sports World War Two I will just say; stick a fork in him, he is done.
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Liquid741
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I hope he is...now Manning has a set goal now to break! But please no Brett Farve forum war part 2!
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Northwind_WE
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Now it's official football season! The kickoff always begins with Favre announcing his retirement.
FLIP... 
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Bernion
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he WILL play this year
however IMO he won't be on anybody's starting day roster, he's not healthy enough right now, somebody will take him though this year
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.Juzam.
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Isn't he still a Viking? I thought he signed a 2 year deal last year.
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Liquid741
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he is anything he wants it seems. honestly, i like Farve, but i am soo ready for him to just go away. this highschool drama every year is just plain sickening.
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Boone-Eldar
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.Juzam. posted:
Isn't he still a Viking? I thought he signed a 2 year deal last year.
Yes he is. Brett Favre has not retired, he just has not reported to the Vikings yet.
And he has plenty of mileage left. I hope he returns, our season depends on it. We are looking at a wildcard and first round exit with Jackson behind center.
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Boone-Eldar
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Liquid741 posted:
he is anything he wants it seems. honestly, i like Farve, but i am soo ready for him to just go away. this highschool drama every year is just plain sickening.
Blame the media.
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Liquid741
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lol...the media just reported he's on his way to the Vikes with his wife.
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Ynisfre
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He's doing it for the TEAM!!
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Boone-Eldar
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Ynisfre posted:
He's doing it for the TEAM!!
I don't give a sh*t why he is doing it. All I know is the Vikings are a much better team with him playing the QB position.
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Liquid741
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Ynisfre posted:
He's doing it for the TEAM!!
WHATEVER!
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Ynisfre
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Hey, I don't blame Vikings fans for being happy he's back... for whatever reason. I just think it's funny to hear Brett spew his BS. He felt liked he "owed it to the Vikings"... which is apparently why he made sure he got a healthy raise before he returned.
I am glad the guy is back, though. He's fun to watch.
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Amendial
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Yeah it was a blast watching him throw the Vikings out of the Superbowl last year, can not wait to see a repeat performance from him this season!
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Ynisfre
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By Amendial's logic the only players worth fielding are those who win a championship. So, outside of maybe Bill Russell, every player in the history of sports was not really worth the investment in most years they played.
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Amendial
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Your forgot Micheal Jordan, and of course Joe Montana.
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Ynisfre
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Pshh. Neither Jordan or Montana won the championship at even a .500 clip. Both were more unproductive than they were productive. And don't even get me started on baseball. Supposedly great players making an out 70% of the time? I can do that, thank you very much.
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Amendial
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Micheal won six championships, and Montana four superbowls. That speaks for itself. But let me ask you a question, what did Montana do for the Cheifs and what did Jordan do for the Wizards? Nothing. Ten years from now unless Brett leads the Vikings to a superbowl we will look back at these past two years and draw the same conclusion; Brett wasted the Vikings time. With an old player the only reason you bring them in is to bring home a championship, anything less is a failure. You certianly are not going to be building for the future with a 41 year old quarterback. Does anyone remember that Montana led the Chiefs to the 93 AFC title game? No, because at the end of the day bringing him into Kansas City was a failure, even if that one single season was a success.
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Ynisfre
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Once again you prove yourself to be the greatest hypothetical GM with access to a time machine in the history of professional sport.
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Boone-Eldar
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Amendial posted:
Yeah it was a blast watching him throw the Vikings out of the Superbowl last year, can not wait to see a repeat performance from him this season!
Yeah let's just conveniently leave out all the fumbles by Peterson, Harvin and Berrian, horribly blown calls by officials and a stupid 12 man in the huddle penalty that put Favre in the position where he ad to throw on that last play.
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Liquid741
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Ynisfre posted:
Once again you prove yourself to be the greatest hypothetical GM with access to a time machine in the history of professional sport.
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Amendial
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As a wiseman once said, "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results." All I am saying is that I can give you example after example of teams signing an older quarterback to lead them to a championship, only to have it fail. This is why I was so against the Brett Farve going to Minnesota. I know he is better than what they got, I realize that, but they lost two year of evaluation time on their young quarterbacks. Next year they will start evaluateing the position and find out they need a new quarterback if they are ever to go to the superbowl, then they will have to draft and develop that quarterback which will take time. They have basically set themselves back two years in this process, which I would be ok with if it gives them a Superbowl. If it fails to do this however, then they wasted these past two seasons and maybe blew their window of opportunity. This is why I say that if he fails to get them a championship, and they do lose that window of opportunity before they can get another quarterback then this will have been an extreme failure. There is no consolation prize, it is all or nothing; Superbowl championship or bust. Farve was not signed by the Vikings to bring them a "feel good" season, he was signed to deliver a championship. They did not sign him to make their roster better for the future, they signed him to put them over the top TODAY. This move completely ignores the future of this team and put all their marbles on the upcoming season; this is the poker equivalent of going all in. Lose this hand and you are done.
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Pariahwulfen
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There are a couple of arguments that could be used here though, one being fan interest, the other being the age of that crazy defense. The question is "do they have the time to actually find and then develop a decent QB?" as it has proven time and time again that spending a high draft pick on an overhyped QB can set a team back several years.
After all, the last thing you want to become is Detroit. 
Edit: I also maintain that Favre died and was replaced by a robot ten years ago, thus the reason someone actually chose that answer  .
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Boone-Eldar
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Amendial posted:
As a wiseman once said, "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results." All I am saying is that I can give you example after example of teams signing an older quarterback to lead them to a championship, only to have it fail. This is why I was so against the Brett Farve going to Minnesota. I know he is better than what they got, I realize that, but they lost two year of evaluation time on their young quarterbacks. Next year they will start evaluateing the position and find out they need a new quarterback if they are ever to go to the superbowl, then they will have to draft and develop that quarterback which will take time. They have basically set themselves back two years in this process, which I would be ok with if it gives them a Superbowl. If it fails to do this however, then they wasted these past two seasons and maybe blew their window of opportunity. This is why I say that if he fails to get them a championship, and they do lose that window of opportunity before they can get another quarterback then this will have been an extreme failure. There is no consolation prize, it is all or nothing; Superbowl championship or bust. Farve was not signed by the Vikings to bring them a "feel good" season, he was signed to deliver a championship. They did not sign him to make their roster better for the future, they signed him to put them over the top TODAY. This move completely ignores the future of this team and put all their marbles on the upcoming season; this is the poker equivalent of going all in. Lose this hand and you are done.
What young quarterback? Jackson? Jackson has had his chances to prove he is a NFL starting quarterback and failed. He got benched for Gus Ferrotte. If that doesn't tell you something, then nothing will. The other QB on the roster is Sage Rosenfels, hardly a young talent.
Have the Vikings declined to draft a franchise QB in recent years? Sure, but by doing so they gained a franchise running back, a franchise defense end, a borderline probowl linebacker and a probowl rookie in Harvin.
Next year will the Vikings draft a QB to develop with their first pick? Most likely yes they will, but they will still have all the elite talent they drafted over quarterbacks that they passed on in recent years who have done nothing, IE Brady Quinn to surround that rookie QB with making the transition all that easier.
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Amendial
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The point about wasting time on a quarterback you drafted proves my point in a sense. At the time they drafted him it was felt that he was the best option for the team, so they selected him. A few years later things did not work out and now they have to find a new quarterback and have lost out on a few years of opportunity. Now with Farve there is a guarentee of doing a good job, so there are not bust worries. But at the same time there is zero potential for a future return on their investment with Farve though. That is the difference. I would rather take a chance on a young quarterback who could potentially lead my team for the next ten to 15 years, than a guy who is going to be gone next season. The only way I would be satisfied with the one year guy is if he delivered a championship. Where would the Vikings be is they had say drafted Chad Henne two years ago? Even better where would they be if they had drafted Joe "Cool" Flaco? They would be Superbowl contenders, and not just for this season but several seasons to come. With Farve they are looking at their last chance to get that elusive championship, and based off Farve's track record from the last decade, it does not look good for the Vikings.
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Boone-Eldar
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Amendial posted:
Where would the Vikings be is they had say drafted Chad Henne two years ago? Even better where would they be if they had drafted Joe "Cool" Flaco? They would be Superbowl contenders, and not just for this season but several seasons to come. With Farve they are looking at their last chance to get that elusive championship, and based off Farve's track record from the last decade, it does not look good for the Vikings.
I understand your point about developing a franchise QB and it is something the Vikings need to do, but you have to take their decision not to in the last 3 years and use veteran QBs to fill the void in context.
In 2009 Sanchez, Stafford and Freeman were all off the board long before the Vikings selected that year. Instead of reaching for a 2nd round talent they selected Harvin, who ended up winning ROY and earned a probowl slot in his first year.
The Vikings traded their first round pick in 2008 for DE Jared Allen, a position of major need that for years they had failed to fill with draft picks which had resulted in a severe lack of pass rush. I would say that filling it with one of the best pass rushing DEs in the league was a good move.
In 2007 they could have selected a QB as well. They could have taken Jamarcus Russell or Brady Quinn (both having proven to be a wise pass on the Vikings part) in the 1st or Kolb or Beck in the 2nd. Instead they got Adrian Peterson, a 3 time probowler and most productive back in the league over the last 3 years and Sidney Rice in the 2nd who emerged as a probowl franchise WR last year. WR was a major area of need at the time for the Vikings as they had perhaps the worst WR corp in the league at the time.
As you can see there really weren't a whole lot of options in the draft for the Vikings based on the draft position and who was available as a potential franchise QB to develop.
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Kalazar22
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As a Vikings fan i'm perfectly fine with how they have handled the QB position by plugging in Favre. Just because he isn't the long term franchise QB doesn't mean it wasn't a smart move. They didn't have great chances of taking a breakout QB, so instead they took the best talent available and drastically improved the team in many aspects by doing so. With the addition of Favre it's still giving them the option to better every other position until the QB they're looking for is there.
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I completely agree that given the situation Farve is and was the best choice. The point I have been trying to make for a past couple year is that, unless they win or atleast go to the superbowl, the plan was a failure. If they do not win the Super bowl this season where does that leave them? No quarterback and nothing to build upon from the past couple of seasons. It's all or nothing this year, and I just do not see it happening, I do not think Farve can get over them to a Superbowl.
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Boone-Eldar
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Amendial posted:
I completely agree that given the situation Farve is and was the best choice. The point I have been trying to make for a past couple year is that, unless they win or atleast go to the superbowl, the plan was a failure. If they do not win the Super bowl this season where does that leave them? No quarterback and nothing to build upon from the past couple of seasons. It's all or nothing this year, and I just do not see it happening, I do not think Farve can get over them to a Superbowl.
If the Vikings O-line does not improve dramatically it wont matter who they have under center.
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Amendial
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That was a pretty horrid performance from them last night, but lets remember it was just a preseason game with no game planning. They should be good to go by the time the season starts.
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