Liquid741
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Suns to wear 'Los Suns' uniforms to honor Phoenix's Latino community
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http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Suns-will-wear-Los-Suns-unis-to-honor-Phoenix-?urn=nba,238682
ok i have a problem with this...i dont like it when professional teams get political. just stick to what they do best, its like hearing a actor voicing their political beliefs and affiliations. i want to like them, i want to enjoy their movies, but once i find out that they are a idiot outside of the movies, or sports, i then have a hard time watching them anymore.
regardless how you feel about the immigration law, just stick to basketball and try not to offend anyone.
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Pariahwulfen
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eh, I'd classify this more as the same thing that some bands do at their concerts, but...yeah, I didn't pay all that money to go to a damn political event, just play the damn game.
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lol where is Amendial? We need someone to take up the other side and argue the points. I agree with you two about how they should just play the game. Once you get political, you lose fans. Mostly for the wrong reason. You have basketball fans (maybe even loyal ones) who will be pissed and quit watching/buying your team and you will add new ones (latinos in this particular case) who may or may not keep watching.
Seems like a harmless salute to the latino community, but things like this are always manipulated by someone or other to be a major negative event. Most of the time, its just in the team's best interest to not do them. Especially in a climate like there is in Arizona right now - seems to me the owner is just trying to get people to not boycott his team (or cost them next year's all-star game).
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Liquid741
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Suns to wear 'Los Suns' uniforms to honor Phoenix's Latino community
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i have no problem with them saluting the Latino community, but the timing of this and what is going on in AZ is just plain wrong imo.
and yes, where is Amendial and his loopy POV! 
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Ynisfre
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How is wearing a jersey with the words "Los Suns" political? They're simply honoring their Latino fans. There may be a political motivation behind it, but it's not overtly political. If they had a "Vote John McCain out of office" on their jerseys, that would be crossing the line into potentially alienating political preaching. You're welcome to read whatever you want into their decision, but they have every right to their opinion on the matter. If they wore a camo uniform to honor the soldiers, would that mean they're necessarily supporting a war? This is a difficult time for the Latino communities, as they feel targeted by these new laws. The Suns are just being sensitive to that. It's silly to get upset when the gesture is so mild, and motivated out of nothing other than wanting a group of people to feel good.
ETA- I would think the proponents of these laws would have just as much stake in wanting to reassure the legal Latino community that they are appreciated and not being blamed for the problems of illegal immigration.
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Why cant they do both? They didn't just make a political statement tonight, they made a statement in this series. The Spurs will not win this series. I can careless about the political statement as long as they take care of business on the court, which they did.
Oh and Ynisfre, they made this a political statement by the press release they sent out when they made the annoucement they were going to wear these jersey's tonight. It clearly stated this was a political statement.
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Ynisfre
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Yes, but that's off the court. Are you suggesting that Steve Nash or the Suns' management team aren't allowed to have political opinions? That's ridiculous. If Pat Riley donates money to the Republican party, that's a political statement too. On the court, in the arena, on TV, they wore pre-exisiting uniforms that said "Los Suns" on Cinco De Mayo. To act as if that "taints" sports with politics is such a reach it might actually touch the Sun. They didn't boycott the game. They didn't call a time out and all hold up signs with some political slogan on it. Off the court they should be free to say whatever the hell they want... whether it's on the Suns' letterhead or not. The uniforms were a symbolic gesture which was voted on by the team, who wanted to wear them, but meant different things to different people. For example, the coach said for him it was merely about celebrating the diversity of the league. Again, it's not overtly political. They're not making any particular political statement on the court.
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Liquid741
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yes they are...when you come out and share you opinion about the new immigration law and the celebration is timed with your public opinion its a statement...one that i think shouldnt have happened. if you want to celebrate the latino community, then why wait till a bill comes out on immigration?
i would just like them to STFU and play basketball, and leave their opinions to their personal lives, not in the public arena.
its not only basketball, some in MLB are applying pressure not to have the all-star game their due to a political bill. it should be interesting and see if MLB caves in. i hope they dont.
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I can agree with both sides. The Suns have a right and to some extent I would say they might even have an obligation to stand up for something that is effecting their fan base. But they should only do that as long as they can back it up on the court. In this case they did so I have no problem with it. Had they lost by 15 to the Spurs last night I would have had a problem with it. Just because they are a sports team doesn't mean they lose the right to get involved with politics, especially considering politics keeps involving themselves in sports. Maybe this what it will take to get politicians to stay out of sports leagues business.
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Ynisfre
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Subject:
Suns to wear 'Los Suns' uniforms to honor Phoenix's Latino community
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Liquid741 posted:
yes they are...when you come out and share you opinion about the new immigration law and the celebration is timed with your public opinion its a statement...one that i think shouldnt have happened. if you want to celebrate the latino community, then why wait till a bill comes out on immigration?
i would just like them to STFU and play basketball, and leave their opinions to their personal lives, not in the public arena.
its not only basketball, some in MLB are applying pressure not to have the all-star game their due to a political bill. it should be interesting and see if MLB caves in. i hope they dont.
Give me one reason why the Suns forgo their right to make a political opinion public. Because they play sports? Because they're famous? Those aren't reasons, and politics is public. If it offends your sensibilities, then losing a fan is the risk they are taking, and if they sell less tickets or jerseys, that is the price they pay. They go into it with their eyes wide open, and follow their own convictions. How can anybody ask for more than that? Maybe if there was some kind of clause in their contract... but even then I am not sure the organization could or should stop them. And in this case it seems the management is unified with the players on this. So what's the problem? We criticize athletes all the time for being robots, for not answering questions honestly. Then when they are honest, we tell them to shut up.
Again, if they took anything away from the game people pay to see, then I would most likely agree that their method was inappropriate. But the game went off as planned, without a hitch. Frankly it's a little disturbing that so many people think that they should have a say in what a famous person does off the court. Curt Schilling was a conservative blowhard, but that didn't stop me from watching him pitch. Ted Nugent is a crazy dude with some views I find repugnant, but I still enjoy listening to Stranglehold.
Just out of curiosity, did you also feel like the Padres shouldn't wear camo uniforms to support the troops, or the war in Iraq, or whatever they personally felt the unis were symbolic of? The coach of the Suns said for him the uniforms were about celebrating the diversity of the NBA. He punctuated this by saying "that's it." "Los" is the Spanish word for "the". It makes no specific political political statement.
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Its not that they cant. Its that once they do they alienate someone. Some fans are going to stop rooting for them now. Some new fans might start cheering them on. Any public figure can be as political as they want to, but it will come with repercussions. Maybe not to you, but it has in the past with me. There are a few actors/musicians that I will no longer support based upon their political agenda being shoved in my face. I'm a just play the part or sing the song type of guy - I don't want to be political when I am trying to relax and listen to music or watch sports. Personally this gesture by the Suns makes no difference to me as I wasn't supporting them prior to the game, and I won't now either. It was pretty mild so I doubt it would have had it been a team I cared about. I think that is all people are trying to say who have a problem with the jerseys.
Its still my opinion that this night only happened because it was going to be advantageous for the business owner to do it. I don't know his opinions of the new law, but I do know that he does not want people to boycott his basketball team. That costs him money. He is taking the risk of losing some local fans to try and increase his public image nationally. To me this was all about money - not a political statement.
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Liquid741
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Subject:
Suns to wear 'Los Suns' uniforms to honor Phoenix's Latino community
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Ynisfre posted:
Liquid741 posted:
yes they are...when you come out and share you opinion about the new immigration law and the celebration is timed with your public opinion its a statement...one that i think shouldnt have happened. if you want to celebrate the latino community, then why wait till a bill comes out on immigration?
i would just like them to STFU and play basketball, and leave their opinions to their personal lives, not in the public arena.
its not only basketball, some in MLB are applying pressure not to have the all-star game their due to a political bill. it should be interesting and see if MLB caves in. i hope they dont.
Give me one reason why the Suns forgo their right to make a political opinion public. Because they play sports? Because they're famous? Those aren't reasons, and politics is public. If it offends your sensibilities, then losing a fan is the risk they are taking, and if they sell less tickets or jerseys, that is the price they pay. They go into it with their eyes wide open, and follow their own convictions. How can anybody ask for more than that? Maybe if there was some kind of clause in their contract... but even then I am not sure the organization could or should stop them. And in this case it seems the management is unified with the players on this. So what's the problem? We criticize athletes all the time for being robots, for not answering questions honestly. Then when they are honest, we tell them to shut up.
Again, if they took anything away from the game people pay to see, then I would most likely agree that their method was inappropriate. But the game went off as planned, without a hitch. Frankly it's a little disturbing that so many people think that they should have a say in what a famous person does off the court. Curt Schilling was a conservative blowhard, but that didn't stop me from watching him pitch. Ted Nugent is a crazy dude with some views I find repugnant, but I still enjoy listening to Stranglehold.
Just out of curiosity, did you also feel like the Padres shouldn't wear camo uniforms to support the troops, or the war in Iraq, or whatever they personally felt the unis were symbolic of? The coach of the Suns said for him the uniforms were about celebrating the diversity of the NBA. He punctuated this by saying "that's it." "Los" is the Spanish word for "the". It makes no specific political political statement.
please..that is BS, its a political statement, and you referring to the Camo..i totally support that, its the Armed Forces, the ones the protect the blowhards that spout their disdain/hate/and other. the suns are using the jersey to promote their take on the immigration law and nothing else. if they were so open and happy about the diversity then why havent they done it in the past...look at MLB, they have much more diversity then the NBA and they arnt wearing Lation phrases/words on their jerseys...now if the Suns came from Mexico or were re-located from south of the border then i could understand..but they were not.
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Is somebody trying to take my job away from me on this board?
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Liquid741
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that would be impossible...all we would have to do is talk MN QB situation... 
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Ynisfre
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please..that is BS, its a political statement and you referring to the Camo..i totally support that, its the Armed Forces, the ones the protect the blowhards that spout their disdain/hate/and other.
But when it was timed with an overseas war, you could say it's just as political as this being timed with the immigration law. Only it wasn't, because camo uniforms don't specifically say "we support the war." They say "we're acknowledging the troops." Just like these uniforms don't specifically say "we're against a crackdown on illegal immigration." They say "we're acknowledging our Latino fans."
the suns are using the jersey to promote their take on the immigration law and nothing else.
Not true. As I said, one of the coaches of the team (can't remember if it was the head coach) specifically stated on ESPN radio yesterday that he supported them wearing the uniforms because of the appreciation of the diversity of the league and "that's it." So you can say they're all saying the same thing, but they're not. And more to the point, what they mean by the gesture in their hearts should not be subject to your approval. That the gesture was innocuous enough to mean multiple things to different people should be a clue there is nothing offensive or "in your face" about what they chose to do.
if they were so open and happy about the diversity then why havent they done it in the past
Um, they have? The Lakers had Los Lakers jerseys a few months ago, and it had nothing to do with these immigration laws. There are also Los Spurs jerseys, to my knowledge. This happened in places with large Latino populations... like Arizona.
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Liquid741
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i had no idea about the Lakers doing it, but i dont buy the coach saying that it was about diversity...specially when Nash came out and said the opposite.
the camo thing, get off the timed war thing...its the armed forces...whom deserve and demand your respect! immigration that is absolutely ridiculous deserves none, specially when half a mill of illegals are currently in the state of AZ. hince the word illegal. and when our elected officials on both sides of the isle are pathetic and have no answer for immigration reform.
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Ynisfre
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This country was founded on the idea of immigration every bit as much as it was founded on the idea of a strong military. Not that that means we shouldn't have immigration restrictions, but we have military restrictions, too. Point is, they're both vital parts of our country's heritage, and both deserve celebration.
As for Nash and the coach saying different things... that's the whole point. They chose something that could mean multiple things. That was a celebration of something positive instead of something that was angry or phrased in the negative. Something that was mild and inoffensive. Sort of like wearing a red ribbon didn't mean you were a hardcore gay rights activist. It just meant you supported the fight to find a cure for AIDS.
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Liquid741
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i have no problem with them wearing Los Suns but when its about immigration reform i do have a prob. and just makes me turn away more from the NBA.
i just hope the NFL doesnt allow this, i would be  if it was the Los Colts or something...but only if it was about a political event that was happening at the time.
just shut up and play, they can have their opinion, but the fan doesnt pay to see their opinion they pay to see them play, i dont want to hear a actor/athlete spout their opinion on something controversial. lets keep it simple and entertaining...and that is what its about now-a-days...entertainment.
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Liquid741
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Ynisfre posted:
This country was founded on the idea of immigration every bit as much as it was founded on the idea of a strong military. Not that that means we shouldn't have immigration restrictions, but we have military restrictions, too. Point is, they're both vital parts of our country's heritage, and both deserve celebration.
completely agree...im Irish American, so i wonder why im not a Celtics fan...
As for Nash and the coach saying different things... that's the whole point. They chose something that could mean multiple things. That was a celebration of something positive instead of something that was angry or phrased in the negative. Something that was mild and inoffensive. Sort of like wearing a red ribbon didn't mean you were a hardcore gay rights activist. It just meant you supported the fight to find a cure for AIDS.
the ribbon thing is great! my girl will only watch baseball when they are using the pink bats or pink hats...i like seeing that. its support for something that need attention and using their broadcast depth allows more peeps to think of what needs to happen...just dont bring politics into sports...what's next religion? that would go over very well, im sure.
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Religion is in sports, though. Every other athlete who wins a championship thanks his lord and savior Jesus Christ. I'm not a Christian, but I support their right to celebrate its influence on their life. One of the reasons I am rooting for Tim Tebow is how open and honest he is about his beliefs. He has the balls to say what he thinks, while maintaining a sense of decorum and not shoving it down anybody's throat. I don't believe a lot of the things Tim Tebow believes, but I respect the hell out of him. He even has Biblical passages on his eye black strips. I don't see it as a problem.
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and this is why I don't mod ACF. 
Edit: Only meaning my posters on this board can at least have a discussion without slander... I love you guys! Well, except Amendial - hes a beaker. 
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I am going to have to side with Ynisfre in this debate.
Good Juzam I would probably get thrown out of school if they thought I was being friendly to a Tiger.
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I don't think it's an accident that they suddenly decided to celebrate their Latino community with all the things going on in Arizona but since they didn't come right out and say we support/don't support the issue than I don't have a problem with it.
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Amendial posted:
I am going to have to side with Ynisfre in this debate.
Good Juzam I would probably get thrown out of school if they thought I was being friendly to a Tiger.
Loser! does that constitute as slander Juzam? 
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Well if I follow ACF guidelines, since you put a after your sentence, then no it does not. Regardless of how serious you might have been in typing it!
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I have learned everything I know about being a loser from Peyton Manning in big time games.
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Liquid741
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c'mon Amendial, "dont taunt me bro"
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Subject:
Suns to wear 'Los Suns' uniforms to honor Phoenix's Latino community
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Haha . I like that, "Don't taunt me bro." That was some potential.
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Metal_Dog
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Subject:
Suns to wear 'Los Suns' uniforms to honor Phoenix's Latino community
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"Sun" is not a Spanish word, so using "Los Suns" is linguistically incorrect.
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Amendial
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Subject:
Suns to wear 'Los Suns' uniforms to honor Phoenix's Latino community
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It is the name of a team, and I think proper nouns do not change between languages, I could be incorrect on this though. Like the names of people usually stay the same between languages. Once again I failed spanish in high school so I am far from an expert on this.
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.Juzam.
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Subject:
Suns to wear 'Los Suns' uniforms to honor Phoenix's Latino community
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And now the retort...
http://dailycaller.com/2010/05/17/fans-asked-to-remove-pro-arizona-immigration-law-shirts-during-nba-game/
Two fans at a Phoenix Suns basketball game were ejected from their first row seats and removed from the arena last week after refusing orders from security guards to take off their shirts in support of Arizona’s recently passed law against illegal immigration.
One of the fans, businessman Jim Clark, said he and a friend, who were wearing orange shirts that read “Viva Los 1070,†eventually were allowed to return to their seats during last Wednesday’s game against the San Antonio Spurs after speaking with a security director.
This is not the first occurrence of politics creeping into the Suns basketball games: On Cinco de Mayo, team owner Robert Sarver came up with the idea for the team to wear “Los Suns†on their jerseys in protest of the immigration law. That’s what drove Clark to don his own shirt.
“If they’re going to shove their politics down my throat, I’m going make a message of my own,†Clark told The Daily Caller.
The phrase “Viva Los 1070†is in reference to the recently passed Arizona immigration law, Senate Bill 1070.
Clark said it is his understanding that it was TNT, which was broadcasting the game, that first suggested they remove their shirts because their front row seats were visible on camera.
Clark, the chief executive of Republic Monetary Exchange in Phoenix, said that shortly after the beginning of the game, security guards approached him and his friend and told them to either take their shirts off or turn them inside out. Four guards escorted the duo outside of the arena.
But after speaking with a security manager, they were allowed to return to their seats wearing their shirts. Fans were cheering and high-fiving them, he said. There was some snickering too.
Suns president Rick Welts later called to apologize, something Clark said he accepts. They spoke for more than 30 minutes. “They handled it in a very proper manner. But I don’t support their politics.â€
A spokeswoman for the Spurs did not immediately return a request for comment, but a TNT spokesman said the company had nothing to do with the incident. “We covered the events in Phoenix that night as they unfolded and forwarded the story throughout the night. No one from Turner’s staff made such a request,†said spokesman Jeff Pomeroy.
Clark says he has since printed 500 “Viva Los 1070†shirts that he plans to sell to fans on a soon-to-be launched website. “I’m not gonna let it drop, and I have no obligation to do so,†he said.
Clark said he will wear the shirt again to other games, and it looks like he will have plenty of opportunities to do so. After apologizing, Welts promised him four tickets to the next 10 games, plus some autographed basketballs from the team.
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Liquid741
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Subject:
Suns to wear 'Los Suns' uniforms to honor Phoenix's Latino community
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i love the fact that some fans are doing this...and that they plan to wear them in the future. i would like to know what kind of conversation they had with the head of security? it had to be a bit threatening on the fans side, due to the fact that they were allowed to wear them and come back to their seats.
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Jikkle01
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Subject:
Suns to wear 'Los Suns' uniforms to honor Phoenix's Latino community
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If they made them take off their shirts than they probably would've had a huge mess on their hands.
Whether you agree with the politics of it or not the bill is a state law and there is nothing offensive by supporting it. By having them take off their shirts they would be showing a bias which is what businesses tend to avoid doing. Do you honestly think if the two guys were wearing something that was against the immigration bill they would've been asked to take them off or turn them inside out?
It always irritates me in cases like this where one side is made out to be the bad guys and the other side is made out to be the good guys in all of this when their should come down to if you agree with something or not. In this case it was passed as a state law by the people of Arizona which means it's the will of the people and all these people should just get over it.
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Liquid741
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Subject:
Suns to wear 'Los Suns' uniforms to honor Phoenix's Latino community
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well the media ruins everything that is against their agenda.
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