VN Boards Archive

[VN Boards Archive]

Welcome to the Vault Network forum archive.

This is not a complete archive, time didn't allot us the opportunity to properly backup the majority of the boards deemed "expendable". Most boards on this list have at least 20-40 pages archived (non-logged in pages, 15 topics per page).

Popular boards may have as many as 250 pages archived at 50 topics per page, while others deemed of historical signifigance may be archived in their entirety.

We may not agree with how the board shutdown was managed, but we've done what we could to preserve some of its history in lieu of that.

Please enjoy the archive.
~ Managers, Moderators, VIP's, and regular posters.

Author

Topic: The tools at ESPN, and sports radio in general

Midnight_Phantom Posts: 12,114 Registered: Mar 19, '01 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 11,714 User ID: 76,120	Subject: The tools at ESPN, and sports radio in general
	Driving home last night, was listening to ESPN radio. ESPN NFL analyst Qadry Ismail was asked "What effect will this Super Bowl performance have on Peyton Manning's legacy?" He answered that Manning had been the best of the elite, but the pick-6 he threw knocks him back to the middle-of-the-pack among the better quarterbacks in the game today. Then he talked for another two minutes basically saying nothing new, just drawn out versions of his first sentence. I'm not a Colts fan. I'm not a Peyton Manning apologist. Nobody was happier than me when Nebraska thumped him and his Tennessee Volunteers in the '98 Orange Bowl. But seriously, the guy has thrown 6,531 passes, and this idiot has the audacity to proclaim that one pass has that much influence on a 12-year body of work? He has a career rating of 95.2. Kurt Warner is a 93.7, Drew Brees 91.9, Brett Favre 86.6. Historically, Joe Montana was a 92.3, Dan Marino 86.4, Roger Staubach 83.4, Bart Starr 80.5, Fran Tarkenton 80.4, John Elway 79.9, Johnny Unitas 78.2, John Brodie 72.3. That's some pretty prestigious company. To imply that one interception has any effect on his legacy is asinine and typical ESPN drivel. But it was a stupid question to begin with. That crap makes me sick. If ESPN had any competition, they'd be #2. Fox Sports Radio had some promise until they put Stephen A Smith on their morning show. Did anyone hear his 30 minute rant on the Seattle hiring of Pete Carroll, the Rooney rule, etc? He would fit right in at ESPN. The Mike & Mike show on ESPN morning radio was OK five years ago, before they turned into a 2-man circle jerk. Somebody start up a decent sports media company. -----signature----- 9-11-01 Annoy a liberal - Work hard and be happy. http://jihadwatch.org/ HONK if I'm paying your mortgage
	Link to this post
Ynisfre Posts: 3,483 Registered: May 28, '09 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 3,483 User ID: 1,358,630	Subject: The tools at ESPN, and sports radio in general
	It's a product of the 24/7 news cycle. If you listen to a radio talk show host for, say, 2 hours, just count the number of times he repeats himself. It's amazing, they can actually make the same point 3 or 4 times in a row, then take a call where the caller either agrees or disagrees, and the host makes the point again. Then they'll move on to topic two, do the same thing, and eventually when they've done this on a few more topics du jour, they'll go right back and hit point one again. They literally have too much dead air to fill. Additionally, everything has to be weighed in the moment against everything else. Is a close Super Bowl the best ever? Where does the winning quarterback rank? That's sort of the nature these conversations, especially when record keeping is such a big part of sports as a whole. But it's exacerbated by today's sports coverage, where every network has a slew of analysts and experts, all who have to weigh in on what just happened. Let's get John Clayton's analysis! What do you have to say, John? Oh, the same thing that everyone else has said? Fascinating. You truly are the professor! -----signature----- (none)
	Link to this post
Liquid741 Title: VN Sensei Posts: 5,106 Registered: Dec 16, '06 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 5,095 User ID: 1,191,724	Subject: The tools at ESPN, and sports radio in general
	Midnight_Phantom posted: Driving home last night, was listening to ESPN radio. ESPN NFL analyst Qadry Ismail was asked "What effect will this Super Bowl performance have on Peyton Manning's legacy?" He answered that Manning had been the best of the elite, but the pick-6 he threw knocks him back to the middle-of-the-pack among the better quarterbacks in the game today. Then he talked for another two minutes basically saying nothing new, just drawn out versions of his first sentence. I'm not a Colts fan. I'm not a Peyton Manning apologist. Nobody was happier than me when Nebraska thumped him and his Tennessee Volunteers in the '98 Orange Bowl. But seriously, the guy has thrown 6,531 passes, and this idiot has the audacity to proclaim that one pass has that much influence on a 12-year body of work? He has a career rating of 95.2. Kurt Warner is a 93.7, Drew Brees 91.9, Brett Favre 86.6. Historically, Joe Montana was a 92.3, Dan Marino 86.4, Roger Staubach 83.4, Bart Starr 80.5, Fran Tarkenton 80.4, John Elway 79.9, Johnny Unitas 78.2, John Brodie 72.3. That's some pretty prestigious company. To imply that one interception has any effect on his legacy is asinine and typical ESPN drivel. But it was a stupid question to begin with. That crap makes me sick. If ESPN had any competition, they'd be #2. Fox Sports Radio had some promise until they put Stephen A Smith on their morning show. Did anyone hear his 30 minute rant on the Seattle hiring of Pete Carroll, the Rooney rule, etc? He would fit right in at ESPN. The Mike & Mike show on ESPN morning radio was OK five years ago, before they turned into a 2-man circle jerk. Somebody start up a decent sports media company. he has no credibility, and is a pathetic analyst...simple enough. -----signature----- April 26th..the day the future will be known...NFL draft. I'd rather be kicked in the face then be a Patriots fan!
	Link to this post
Amendial Posts: 5,462 Registered: Sep 8, '04 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 5,356 User ID: 965,019	Subject: The tools at ESPN, and sports radio in general
	You have to judge the great QB's by their post season performance. Here is the postseason record of some of the great Qb's: Montana, playoffs: 16-7 (4-0) Brady, playoffs: 14-4 (3-1) Elway, playoffs: 14-8 (2-4) Favre, playoffs: 13-11 (1-1) Warner, playoffs: 9-4 (1-2) Manning, playoffs: 9-9 (1-1) Roethlisberger, playoffs: 8-2 (2-0) Of all the quarterbacks on that list you can see that Manning is the only one who has a non winning record. Even Brett the choke artist has a winning record in January. The playoffs are the best of the best as far as compition goes. Is Manning a great quarterback? Yes he is, nothing will change that. But that throw in the superbowl cost him a chance to be one of the greatest of all time. I would not put him above quarterbacks like Montana, Elway, or Bradshaw. He is effectively in the same boat as Marino, great in the regular season, but ineffective in the post season. He does have a ring and that puts him a notch above Marino though. That throw hurt Manning alot, lets say he doesnt make that mistake, and the colts go on to win. All of the suddenly he is 10-8 in the playoffs with a 2-0 record in the superbowl. He now has two rings, with less losses than most of the other quarterbacks on that list. It would be hard to keep him out of the top 5 all time list at that point. That is what was damaging to his lagacy. It didn't kill what he has already done, but it hinders what he possibly could do. This can all change by my best guess he will probally play for 5 more years. That gives him plenty of chance to put that throw behind him. -----signature----- Basur - 50 Jedi Shadow - Alduras - 30 Jedi Knight - Infinite Empire Brienna - 50 Sith Sorc - The Crucible Pits Kansas University Class of 2013! 2008 National Champions!! 2008 Orange Bowl Champions!!
	Link to this post
Ynisfre Posts: 3,483 Registered: May 28, '09 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 3,483 User ID: 1,358,630	Subject: The tools at ESPN, and sports radio in general
	So it doesn't affect what he has done, but it will affect what he is going to do? Unless it doesn't, because he still has five more years? And he's in the same boat as Marino, except he's not because he's won a Super bowl and may win more? And being 10-8 in the playoffs would give him less losses than what people on what list? Not the list you just gave us. What the heck are you talking about? The way people break down things based on their own arbitrary criteria, and then act as if that's the way one must judge a quarterback always amuses me. Peyton Manning has had a tendency to play not at his best in some playoff games. But if you look at his playoff numbers compared to the two guys this decade who have won multiple rings, they're not that different. In fact, they're kind of better. In the same amount of games Brady has three less picks, but 60 less yards per game and the same amount of TDs. Roethlisberger also has about 60 less yards per game and a worse TD to INT ratio in 10 games. The only thing it seems like you can fault Manning for is that his regular season standards are so ungodly high that his postseason stats look pedestrian in comparison... even though he's been to two Super Bowls and won one and still has plenty of good years left. Does he bear some responsibility for that 9-9? Of course. Does it mean he's not in the top five quarterbacks of all time? Who cares? His career isn't close to over. -----signature----- (none)
	Link to this post
Amendial Posts: 5,462 Registered: Sep 8, '04 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 5,356 User ID: 965,019	Subject: The tools at ESPN, and sports radio in general
	The biggest difference is that with the game on the line and his team down Rothlisberger drove his team down the field for the winning touchdown. Brady did the same thing against the Giants, but it wasn't the winning touchdown, Eli had just enough time to take the victory away from him. Brady has drove his team down the field for the win in a superbowl twice (St. Louis and Carolina). Manning with the game on the line and his team needing him to make a play choked; he threw a pick six. Had he won that game I certianly would have had to put him above Big Ben and probally above Brady on the best post season quarterbacks currently playing list. He didn't and because of that I would struggle to put him in the top 3 post-season quaterbacks currently playing. All time, right now he is a on the edge of the top 10, that win would have made an undisputeable claim for him being a top 5. That one throw took away any chance he had of instantly becoming a top 5 all time quarterback. That being said, there is still time for him to get it done, it is just going to have to wait a few years. Personally I think that will be the last Superbowl he ever plays in, I think that is going to prove to be his last chance, and he blew it. As far as stats go, yeah its not hard to rack up bunches of yards when Qb's like Brady spend the fourth quarter handing the ball off, while Manning has to spend half of his postseason fourth quarters throwing his team back into the game. EDIT: Oh and when I said he would have less losses, I was talking superbowl losses, not postseason losses overall. And also, I said he is effectively in the same boat as Marino, in the sense that he is one of the best in the regular season, but sucks in the post season. -----signature----- Basur - 50 Jedi Shadow - Alduras - 30 Jedi Knight - Infinite Empire Brienna - 50 Sith Sorc - The Crucible Pits Kansas University Class of 2013! 2008 National Champions!! 2008 Orange Bowl Champions!!
	Link to this post
Ynisfre Posts: 3,483 Registered: May 28, '09 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 3,483 User ID: 1,358,630	Subject: The tools at ESPN, and sports radio in general
	Amendial posted: He didn't and because of that I would struggle to put him in the top 3 post-season quaterbacks currently playing. All time, right now he is a on the edge of the top 10, that win would have made an undisputeable claim for him being a top 5. That one throw took away any chance he had of instantly becoming a top 5 all time quarterback. I could respond to the whole post, or I could just repost this. You're saying one throw is the gap between the tenth best quarterback of all time and the fifth. This is the arbitrary criteria I was talking about earlier. I just hope you realize how, although it is your opinion and as "valid" as anybody else's, it makes no logical sense in the world. -----signature----- (none)
	Link to this post
Amendial Posts: 5,462 Registered: Sep 8, '04 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 5,356 User ID: 965,019	Subject: The tools at ESPN, and sports radio in general
	It makes sense when that one single throw is the difference between the lombardi trophy being in New Orleans and the trophy being in Indianapolis. Of course I am being a little assumptive, even if he doesn't make that pass there is no guarentee that the Colts win the game. Lets assume they would have won the game if he does not make that throw though and that pass becomes more than a single pass. That is the difference; there is a huge difference between winning a Superbowl and losing a Superbowl. There is an even greater difference when you make a horrible looking throw that gives the other team a touchdown. -----signature----- Basur - 50 Jedi Shadow - Alduras - 30 Jedi Knight - Infinite Empire Brienna - 50 Sith Sorc - The Crucible Pits Kansas University Class of 2013! 2008 National Champions!! 2008 Orange Bowl Champions!!
	Link to this post
Ynisfre Posts: 3,483 Registered: May 28, '09 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 3,483 User ID: 1,358,630	Subject: The tools at ESPN, and sports radio in general
	I'll go back to last year. Kurt Warner, borderline Hall of Famer. People say if he retires after the Super Bowl he's probably not a Hall of Famer unless they win. So, final drive of the game for the Cardinals, he does his job, drives them down and takes the lead. But then the defense loses it in the end. So, by that standard Kurt Warner wasn't a surefire Hall of Famer because the defense gave up a touchdown. In Roethlisberger's case, in his first Super Bowl he played like crap, but because the defense limited the Seahawks to ten points, they won the game. But he gets credit, because, in so many sports fans minds, Super Bowls are somehow the provence of quarterbacks and quarterbacks alone. It's ridiculous. Do I cherish Joe Montana's clutch play in Super Bowls? Of course. Do I think it's an important factor in his legacy. Definitely. Do I think it necessarily makes him better than any quarterback that doesn't reach 4 titles? No. Do you consider Troy Aikman a better QB than Dan Marino? I know which one I would rather have. -----signature----- (none)
	Link to this post
Liquid741 Title: VN Sensei Posts: 5,106 Registered: Dec 16, '06 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 5,095 User ID: 1,191,724	Subject: The tools at ESPN, and sports radio in general
	Amendial talking about Manning is like a Pats fan talking about Manning...i really do not pay attention, since their is too much disdain and hate involved. its simple and im biased, but he is in my mind one of the top five. his career is still going strong and will so for many years...he's one man on a team, (the leader of the team) but not the whole team. just look at the respect the other teams give him by the choices they make...i really dont see that with other QB's around the league. -----signature----- April 26th..the day the future will be known...NFL draft. I'd rather be kicked in the face then be a Patriots fan!
	Link to this post
Amendial Posts: 5,462 Registered: Sep 8, '04 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 5,356 User ID: 965,019	Subject: The tools at ESPN, and sports radio in general
	I can agree with you a little on your point. Just simply having your team win a Superbowl does not hold much value with me as being the difference in that superbowl does. And that is why I am down a Manning, because he did lose this Superbowl. His INT was the deciding factor. Also when you look at his superbowl he did win, he played alright, but if they were playing anyone other than Rex Grossmen it probally would not have gone their way. His team won that superbowl and I give them credit, but it's not like they were playing the early 90 Bills, or anyone else. Warner led his team for the go ahead touchdown last year, and even though he didn't get a ring, I hold his legacy to a higher standard. With the game on the line he took control and led his team for a score, his only mistake was leaving too much time. Eli did the same, and I will hold his legacy to a higher standard. Rothlisberger, Brees, Brady all of those guys have gotten it done at crunch time for their teams in a Superbowl the past several seasons. That is how I judge quarterbacks, what you do with the game on the line in the biggest games of the year. If Manning makes this mistake mid way through the third quarter it would not care as much, the biggest problem with the throw from my end (and the part I love so much about it) is that it happened at crunch time. The great quarterbacks make the play to win (or atleast put your team ahead) at the end of the game, not effectively lose the game for you team. -----signature----- Basur - 50 Jedi Shadow - Alduras - 30 Jedi Knight - Infinite Empire Brienna - 50 Sith Sorc - The Crucible Pits Kansas University Class of 2013! 2008 National Champions!! 2008 Orange Bowl Champions!!
	Link to this post
Midnight_Phantom Posts: 12,114 Registered: Mar 19, '01 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 11,714 User ID: 76,120	Subject: The tools at ESPN, and sports radio in general
	If anything, the discussion here has been infinitely more intelligent than the dillweeds at ESPN could muster, and they get paid for it... -----signature----- 9-11-01 Annoy a liberal - Work hard and be happy. http://jihadwatch.org/ HONK if I'm paying your mortgage
	Link to this post
Pariahwulfen Posts: 2,511 Registered: Jan 8, '08 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 2,502 User ID: 1,275,221	Subject: The tools at ESPN, and sports radio in general
	Midnight_Phantom posted: If anything, the discussion here has been infinitely more intelligent than the dillweeds at ESPN could muster, and they get paid for it... agreed -----signature----- 27 years of life, 20 years of gaming... In a world of chaos and insanity, only the madman is truly sane... "Never use a big word when a little filthy one will do." - Johnny Carson http://pariahwulfen.labrute.fr/
	Link to this post
Amendial Posts: 5,462 Registered: Sep 8, '04 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 5,356 User ID: 965,019	Subject: The tools at ESPN, and sports radio in general
	Yeah, I stopped listening to what ESPN has to say years ago. It makes me wonder how they not only started getting paid to do their job, but how they also became so popular. -----signature----- Basur - 50 Jedi Shadow - Alduras - 30 Jedi Knight - Infinite Empire Brienna - 50 Sith Sorc - The Crucible Pits Kansas University Class of 2013! 2008 National Champions!! 2008 Orange Bowl Champions!!
	Link to this post
Midnight_Phantom Posts: 12,114 Registered: Mar 19, '01 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 11,714 User ID: 76,120	Subject: The tools at ESPN, and sports radio in general
	Here's a gem from Stephen A Smith on Fox Sports Radio Friday morning... He and a female comentator were discussing Jaimee Grubbs, the 24 year old waitress who was one of Tiger Woods' affairs. Smith's stance was that any of those women knew who they were getting in the sack with and for them to say anything about it was wrong. Smith placed no accountability on Tiger Woods. One of his quotes was "It's time for these women to step up and accept their responsibility." The women are white, Woods is black. Smith is black. These lyrics are sung to the same tune as the song he sang about the hiring of Pete Carroll (white) by Seattle. It's one thing to be a crappy sports commentator. It's another thing to be a racist crappy sports commentator. -----signature----- 9-11-01 Annoy a liberal - Work hard and be happy. http://jihadwatch.org/ HONK if I'm paying your mortgage
	Link to this post
Ynisfre Posts: 3,483 Registered: May 28, '09 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 3,483 User ID: 1,358,630	Subject: The tools at ESPN, and sports radio in general
	With regard to the Seahawks hiring, it goes back to the Rooney rule. Steven A. didn't put it in place. If you're going to have it in place, at least follow it, otherwise, get rid of it. So I'm assuming he had a point there, though I didn;t hear exactly what he said. As for the Tiger Woods thing, Steven is just posturing, taking the "playa's" side... because that's the persona he presents. That's how he sells himself. He. may have a racial bias, but for me I don't think that's enough to call him a racist. It's more like being overly defensive. -----signature----- (none)
	Link to this post
Pariahwulfen Posts: 2,511 Registered: Jan 8, '08 Extended Info (if available) Real Post Cnt: 2,502 User ID: 1,275,221	Subject: The tools at ESPN, and sports radio in general
	What I'd like to know is if ESPN got rid of him or if Fox out bid them for his "services"...since I first heard of him on ESPN. -----signature----- 27 years of life, 20 years of gaming... In a world of chaos and insanity, only the madman is truly sane... "Never use a big word when a little filthy one will do." - Johnny Carson http://pariahwulfen.labrute.fr/
	Link to this post