Liquid741
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Colts...hard to watch yesterday
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Do you all agree with the decision to rest players like the Colts did and basically give the Jets the game? I know as a fan, it was difficult to watch and stomach. My opinion goes both ways, but was curious on what you peeps here thought
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Ynisfre
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My main thought is why play to win for the first 40 minutes and not for the final 20? Either rest your players all the way or win the damn game. Peyton Manning is the most durable QB in the NFL right now, and giving him a quarter off means next to nothing. Certainly less than a potential undefeated season.
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Stiger
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I didn't see the game, but I don't understand the thinking of pulling him in the 3rd quarter. If you want to rest him, let him play a series or two and pull him. Otherwise, as long as he's not getting killed, let him finish the game.
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Liquid741
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it wasnt just him, it was starters on both sides of the ball...totally a different team, looked like the Lions of last year. you could see Manning on the sideline talking to Moore and wanting to come back in, but at least he didnt throw a fit like Farve.
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-VoSixkiller-
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I think it was shameful for many reasons. The players deserve a chance at history.
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IdahoPuma
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From a fan standpoint within a limited mindset I can understand the frustration , but I understand the why quite easily .
Not only does it protect your most valuable players from injuries that could ruin a super bowl run it also allows for the rare invaluable chance to put backups in a real NFL situation . Either a team has to be totally out of the playoffs or totally in with no further position to gain for such a chance . These are guys that normally only get pre-season vanilla play and never again unless starter is injured at which time they go in cold .
The added bonus for the backup QB in Indy was not only were they playing a team outside of the non-counting pre-season games , they are also playing a team WITH something to play for thus no holds barred . Do not cry that Peyton is being saved to try to bring you a Super Bowl , cheer the backups getting the biggest and best test of their careers so far and see how they do . Better than the first time being on the super bowl 10 yard line with 90 to go in the final 2 minutes down by 4 .
My team is so far out of it they are considering joining the AFL  I would love to see more backups in there to evaluate them for next year to keep or cut . You are evaluating your depth to survive a super bowl run . Feel lucky for the chance they get 
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-VoSixkiller-
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Peyton Manning has played in 191 consecutive games. The guy knows how to protect himself. The chances of him getting hurt in that situation are pretty slim. Most other players are interchangeable. The Giants lost their starting center while playing their asses off trying to prevent New England from going 16-0 and they still won the Superbowl. If resting your players in weeks 16 and 17 is such a big advantage than the Colts should be going for about their seventh consecutive Lombardi trophy this season. Lets dispell this notion that resting all your starters is some kind of big strategic advantage.
The team really owed it to their fans and their players to try and go undefeated. And to the integrity of the sport too. Tanking a home game to a team that's fighting for a playoff spot is a disgrace to the game.
Going undefeated is historic. Arguably more so than the Superbowl itself. Most NFL fans can name every undeated team in the modern era. There's only been two, and only one of them went on to win the Superbowl. Can most NFL fans name every Superbowl champion? I doubt many of them could even get 15 of them correct. 40 years from now no one is going to remember a 14-2 Colts team from 2009, but a 16-0 Colts team would stand out in the annals of NFL history, especially if they then went on to win it all. I bet even the 16-0 2007 Patriots will be more remembered and talked about than the 10-6 Giants who eventually won the Superbowl that year.
We all know the Dolphins went undefeated through the Superbowl in 1972. How many people remember the 1971 and 1973 champs offhand? Hell if I know. Unless your home team won it one of those years, you probably don't know either.
Like I said, yesterday's game was just shameful on many levels. No other way to put it.
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Amendial
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I was upset that they decided to do it this week and not the week before. Another reason why I will always hate the Colts. May you get beat horribly in your first playoff game.
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Liquid741
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Amendial posted:
I was upset that they decided to do it this week and not the week before. Another reason why I will always hate the Colts. May you get beat horribly in your first playoff game.
/sigh....your a KU fan, so i expect as much.
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Cuttlery
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Seeing todays game against Buffalo and how well the Colts back up players are I think its pretty clear that the decision to make sure noone got injured was probably a good one.
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Sprakjr_Sybau
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I hate when teams do this. Injuries can happen at any time. If Peyton tears his ACL in the first quarter of the AFC title game how is that any better than if it happened in week 16?
Peyton hasn't missed a game in 12 years. The chances of him getting injured are almost nonexistent. Also why haven't the Colts learned? They win a ton of games every season, but the one time they won the Superbowl was when they couldn't rest players at the end.
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Liquid741
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^^^
completely agree and its the general sentiment of the fans here in Indiana...the Colts/Polian had a lot of negative feedback on his weekly radio show.
what kills me is that he said that going 16-0 was never a goal, that he didnt think that was a great record! that winning the most games in the decade and winning the most regular season games in a row was as well...my thoughts are who in the hell remembers those flippin records? but i do know the one record that i can remember is who was the last team to go undefeated? the 72' Dolphins...tired of them every year popping the cork!
bottom line they should have played and took their rest in the bye week that they earned.
now we have the commish thinking about applying incentives for teams to play out the season...not sure how that will work or be enforced, but should be interesting.
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Ynisfre
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I think the incentives thing is ridiculous. First of all, you shouldn't be rewarded for not doing what you think is in the best interest of your team. Nor should you get extra draft picks for winning, as that goes against the very idea of the draft. If a coach or GM thinks that playing backups is for the best, they should be able to do it. If preseason games can be full price, then I don't see why these are any different. The fans should just shutup and be happy their team is doing well enough to rest their players.
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Amendial
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The bigger issue is with the team they laid down for making the playoffs. That is why the commish needs to step in and stop this. If the Colts do not play back ups in the fourth quarter of the Jets game, the Jets lose, and fail to make the playoffs. The Houston Texans would then now be in the playoffs. That is very interesting, the Colts laid down and let the Jets win to prevent the Houston Texans from making the playoffs; a Texans team that almost beat Indy twice this year. Not saying they rested starters to do this on purpose, but people can and will make assumptions with what they see. The real problem with teams resting starters is that it does manipulate the playoff field. The Jets are in even though had all teams played 100% they would not have been. This needs to stop, the Jets should have had to play Indy at their best for 4 quarters just as the Texans had to do twice.
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Ynisfre
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Why is it incumbent upon the Colts to win a game for another team's playoff chances? I can't believe anyone would think that. It's more unfair to try to enforce how a franchise must run their team than to have a few games where teams play backups. Whether or not the Colts were "afraid" of the Texans, this is their philosophy. They rest starters and avoid injuries. If the Texans wanted to make the playoffs, they should have won more than 9 games. The Colts owe the Texans nothing. I am a liberal guy, but this is sports, for god's sake. If you don't earn your playoff spot yourself, you have nothing to cry about.
As an aside, the same thing happens in baseball. Two teams battling for a wildcard spot, one of them playing a team that already has their playoff spot wrapped up. The first place team plays minor leaguers from when the rosters expand, and rests their starters to set up their rotation for the playoffs. One of the wildcard contenders benefits, and the other has to play a more competitive series. It's just heightened in football because there's less games, but the principle is the same. Don't mess with teams doing what they think is best for their playoff run.
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Liquid741
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the Texans had 14 other games to make the playoffs with...cant put all the blame on the one game with the Jets...i am in agreement that they should have played...unless some players absolutely need the rest due to injury. but these teams that cry at the end of the year because some teams lay down is ridiculous...win more during the reg. season and you wont have to worry about the last game of the season.
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Amendial
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They thing that I am hearing people complaining about isnt that solely that they rested their stars, its that they played them 3/4 of the game and dominated the Jets and then just sat everyone and said here you go this one is free. I just heard some people this morning talking about how the Colts saw the scoreboard and how the playoff scenarios were playing out at that point and decided to "weaken the pool" of playoff teams. If that is truly what they did then from a compition stand point, good move. Who is to say that the Texans were not unlike the '06 Steelers, or the '08 Giants. By doing this the Colts might have won themselves the Superbowl. So from the Colts perspective this is the right move to make. From the leagues perspective though you do not want to have the playoffs lose their elite status. If teams continue to throw games like the Colts, Bengals, and several other teams did the past couple of weeks, being a wildcard team will become meaningless. Its the integrity of the playoffs that is at stake by this act. That is why I think the league should do something about teams intentionally losing games by resting starters, the status given to playoff teams and the integrity of the playoffs themselves are at stake.
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Sprakjr_Sybau
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I don't think teams have a right to complain because they didn't make the playoffs... that's their own fault for not winning enough games to control that. Especially the Texans... they got some help from the Patriots in their last game anyway.
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Ynisfre
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Amendial posted:
They thing that I am hearing people complaining about isnt that solely that they rested their stars, its that they played them 3/4 of the game and dominated the Jets and then just sat everyone and said here you go this one is free.
So if the Colts had played backups from the beginning it would have been better? More fair? Had more integrity? That makes even less sense. That would have just made the game that much easier for the Jets to win.
But about the backups and competitive balance- they're still NFL players, and at least they're trying. If somebody intentionally throws an interception, or something, that might be a different thing. But if we have to worry about the integrity of the game when teams that have clinched play backups who are trying hard, but are just not as good as the other team, what about teams who have no playoff hopes? When they're playing their starters, but the starters don't give a damn and phone the game in, what then? Do we have to offer them incentives to not alligator arm a ball thrown over the middle? After all, their games can matter just as much to a team awaiting a particular outcome.
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Amendial
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Taken from an Ask vic column today:
"How could the NFL possibly regulate something as gray as how hard a team tries to win a game? Could they make rules about how long starters would have to play and when they could or could not be subbed in or out?
Vic: Tanking a game is like pornography: You’ll know it when you see it and I think we all know what we saw a couple of weeks ago. As I said, I have no problem with a team resting its starters, but playing them for three quarters isn’t resting them. What the league has to avoid is the perception of an in-game manipulation of the playoff seeding. In other words, reacting to the scoreboard. How do you regulate that? By fining and taking away draft picks. Hit a team with a $2 million fine or take away a second-round pick and watch how fast it stops"
This is the kind of opinions I am hearing. The perception of some people is that Indy saw how the playoff teams were doing thus far, figured out the playing scenarios if they won and lost and decided to sit their starters to manipulate the playoff field. Not saying I agree with this, but it is very much a possiblity. If they did in fact do this, it should not be allowed.
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Ynisfre
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Leagues can't even punish a "know it when they see it" (i.e. no real proof) scenario when what they know, that Barry Bonds was taking steroids, for example, is against the rules and against the law. How, then, can they punish for something that not only do they not have proof any of, but is not explicitly against the rules? We can say that Indy was manipulating the playoff seedings, but how do we know that? If they had played their backups all game, they could say they were trying to win but resting their starters for a playoff run. Surely the league can't fault them for wanting to stay healthy. If they benched their starters in the middle of the second half (a move I hated, by the way) could they not say they wanted to get them reps, but after two quarters and 8 minutes, that was enough? What can the league say to that? That they're liars? That the players only needed two series or three? These are things you can't enforce unless you're going to have the league run all the franchises itself.
And again, most importantly, isn't it incumbent upon the teams deciding their own destinies to ultimately account for where they are seeded? As has been said before, if you want in, win your damn games.
The best solution I have heard, and this makes so much sense you wonder who is running the league, is to only have division games in the last 2-4 weeks. This would ensure that there is the maximum possibility that the games would mean something for as many teams as possible.
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Amendial
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I can see your points, and they are very valid. This isn't an issue that can be resolved overnight. As you say the Colts could have planned that all along, to play Peyton Manning 3/4 of the game and then rest him. But that seems a little strange to play a guy 3/4 of the game and then at crunch time rest him. Once again that could very easily have been their plan all along. Honestly I had thought nothing about it until people started bringing up this issue. I personally think that every team should have to play to win every game. That NY Jets Cincinnati Bengals game was pathetic to watch. I can see you point about if you want in win more games, but at the same time is it really fair that the Houston Texans had to play against wildcard potential teams at the end of the year while the NY Jets got two freebees? Its pretty obvious that the Jets were going to lose that game to Indy. Had they lost that game the Jets are not in the playoffs. So the bestter teams did not make it into the playoffs, and that is a fact that hurt the integrity of the playoffs themselves. Thats why I feel the league needs to step in and do something. Making the playoffs is a high status in the NFL, and if they want the status to be protected they need to eliminate this problem. But in trying to eliminate this problem, you create several other problems. I do not know what the perfect solution is, of if there even is one.
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Sprakjr_Sybau
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Well the first half was close... I bet Manning would have been pulled in the first quarter if they had gotten off to a 21-0 lead.
2nd half... Manning got one drive, they took the lead and he was pulled. That was probably their plan the whole time. I don't think it had anything to do with other potential playoff teams.
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-VoSixkiller-
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I'm going to laugh when the Jets knock the Colts out of the playoffs.
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Pariahwulfen
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-VoSixkiller- posted:
I'm going to laugh when the Jets knock the Colts out of the playoffs.
The thing is, almost none of the pundits put there are giving them a shot to do that either...
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Ynisfre
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Geez, I wonder why nobody is giving them a shot? To win three consecutive road playoff games and get to the Super Bowl? A 9-7 regular season team with a rookie quarterback? That's about as long a shot as it gets.
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