Lyli
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So, I've been breastfeeding Drew since he was born with about 2-4 ounces of formula supplemented through the day. He wasn't gaining a ton of weight so his Pediatrician suggested it.
Now, we've been having some issues..
Since he was 2 days old he sucks so hard the he draws out blood with the breastmilk. It's gotten so severe lately that if/when he spits up it looks purely like blood so I think I've made up my mind to switch to formula. It's painful as hell for me and he's been quite fussy so I am guessing the amount of blood he's taking in is upsetting his stomach.
The nurses all checked his latch on, it was good and they checked my positioning which was still good. One nurse stuck her (gloved) finger in Drew's mouth and said she couldn't believe how hard he was sucking. Did I mention OUCH! ?
So, how much formula do you offer a baby at a time?
How often?
If the baby doesn't finish the bottle can you (did you) stick it back in teh fridge and offer it later?
Is it okay to boil my tap water to make formula?
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-Foxy-
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start at 4ozs every 4 hours then go to 8ozs if that isn't enough. if he gets hungry every 2 hours, go w/ that. whatever you already have established.
heat formula or milk only once. start small til you are pretty sure how much he will drink. you can always refill the bottle for that session of feeding.
tap water will really depend on your area honestly. do you have well water. like that. not a good answer but i think the one that is the best. unless you want to be absolute and just go gallon jugs at the store.
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Lyli
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its not well water
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Darshawn
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My first thought is....have you thought of pumping your milk for him? I'd do that and supplement with the formula. As far as how much, I'd start him off with 3-4 ounces and offer an ounce at a time if he still seems hungry.
You can use tap water as long as it's boiled for a few minutes before adding the formula. Don't keep the prepared bottles more than a day or so in the fridge though and never save the unused formula from 1 feeding to the next. Don't use the microwave to reheat bottles. You can buy a bottle warmer or use the old-fashioned method.....placing the bottle in hot water to take the chill off.
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My kid wasn't gaining weight fast enough so we supplemented with formula too. No idea how much we gave, started small and worked it up as he took more I think. Leftovers in a bottle he was using were tossed. Whatever we'd mixed before though we kept for 24 hours, think that was from the directions on the box. I hated tossing that stuff considering the price. =/
Wife got the cracked nipples problem (whatever that's called) and whenever kiddo got a bit of blood he was fussy and tended to barf everything back up. That was brief though and she stuck it out for almost a year. At 6 months we started him on cereals too and he suddenly started growing like a weed. (He was super low on the chart for weight and quickly got to 50th percentile.) He's perfectly fine now, that chart is not something to take too seriously anyway.
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I would get a nice pump system and feed him from the bottle with mommy milk. That would be much easier on you and he still gets the milk.
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Tuneses
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First my opinion is to try as hard as you can to BF but don't go into a depression over it.
I had the same issue. I also went to formula. First thing I did was is bought a water filter for the tap. I use to use a bottle warmer, make some in advance which you can store in teh fridge, such a waste of time. Warming up the bottle just prevents some tummy problems, they don't really need it warmed, or so i read. Now i use just warm water from the tap. I also bought the Playtex advantair bottles cause he was soooo gassy and that cut down on it a lot. I started formula at 1 month and was doing 4 oz every 2 hours or so. He ate so often cause he slept though the night, about 10 hours or so. He's eating 8 oz a feeding now but only 4-5 bottles a day. He's eating solids though. I used this chart as a guideline for feeding. Brokk is usually in the average amount per day. I totally let him dictate the schedule and it worked out great for us. He's gonna be 6 months this weekend is a very scheduled baby. You should use any mixed formula that baby is drinking within an hour or toss it cause of the bacteria from your LO's mouth will grow in the formula.
I totally didn't plan on bottle feeding and was at such a loss too when I was trying to figure out how to do it.
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Lyli
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I've given him formula for the past 3 feedings .. he's more quiet and happy than he's been since he was born.
It's like a different baby! I feel so bad that he was suffering through breastfeeding so much now. 
Now i get to suffer through my milk drying up and my boobs being engorged uhg
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Jennifer_the_Great
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Breastfeeding and Formula Feeding - Need Input and Opinions
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My son never latched on, so I ended up pumping for the first six weeks (as long as I could stand being tied to a pump, my husband at the time was in Iraq and the whole every two to three hours to feed, then pump, then chores, etc got old REALLY fast).
I have never warmed up a bottle. Any left over breastmilk you can store in the fridge for days (iirc I usually kept mine two or three, I've heard of people keeping it for a week like that) and in the freezer for six to nine months. If it was frozen I'd move it to the fridge 24 hours beforehand to defrost, then I'd use hot water out of the tap for a minute or two on the outside of the bottle to knock the chill off.
Choosing to never give him milk any warmer than body temperature meant that once I switched completely to formula, he could eat anywhere at any time. I kept a Brita water pitcher on the cabinet to use while we were home, and in the diaper bag I kept a can of formula and some pre-water filled bottles (my best friend did the opposite, she put the powder in the bottles and brought along bottled water. I chose to do it my way so that I could be away from home for extended periods of time - I can always get bottled water while I'm out.
I'm sincerely hoping that this baby will latch on, I'd love to breastfeed as long as I can.
edit - I used tap water and ran it through the Brita pitcher. If you don't live in a city (for example, if your water comes from a well), boiling it sounds like a great idea. When we were out, I'd use Aquafina water most often because it didn't have any added minerals like whatever Coke's brand name water does. Any purified water would work, imo.
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Tuneses
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BTW Babies R us has a program where you buy 9 cans of formula you get the 10th free (by a coupon in the mail). This is for Nestle Good Start, Similac and the Babies R us brand. The prices are comparable to other stores. I did Nestle Good Start for 2 months then switch to the Babies R Us brand cause it's 14$ cheaper. Was a great switch. Brokk likes it just as much and my wallet does too.
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Tuneses
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Also I carry bottles with water in the diaper bag and one of these for formula. Best thing ever!
http://www.toysrus.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2736618
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Liquid741
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i remember my ex-wife being engorged...she was in soo much pain, my son couldnt eat and i was a nervous wreck worrying about them both.
she heard of a remedy of putting cabbage leaves on her breasts...thus helping with the engorgment...sadly it didnt work and we went to the hospital where they releived her....i did take pics of her laying on the bed with the cabbage on her...funny stuff. not sure why i shared that story, just came to me.
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Lyli
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I've heard the cabbage thing before also 
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myxomatosis8
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I did the cabbage leaves thing, but a shot from my ob-gyn was what really did it. OH, the joy...
I never boiled water. I also would put unfinished bottles in the fridge and nuke them a second time to re-feed. I'm that horrible parent on these boards who thinks too much sterility is a bad thing, not a good thing.
Actually, I lie. I boiled bottles and nipples and water and all that fun stuff for maybe the first week after I was supplementing with my firstborn. After that it was game over.
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Darwynnia
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Lyli posted:
So, I've been breastfeeding Drew since he was born with about 2-4 ounces of formula supplemented through the day. He wasn't gaining a ton of weight so his Pediatrician suggested it.
Now, we've been having some issues..
Since he was 2 days old he sucks so hard the he draws out blood with the breastmilk. It's gotten so severe lately that if/when he spits up it looks purely like blood so I think I've made up my mind to switch to formula. It's painful as hell for me and he's been quite fussy so I am guessing the amount of blood he's taking in is upsetting his stomach.
The nurses all checked his latch on, it was good and they checked my positioning which was still good. One nurse stuck her (gloved) finger in Drew's mouth and said she couldn't believe how hard he was sucking. Did I mention OUCH! ?
So, how much formula do you offer a baby at a time?
How often?
If the baby doesn't finish the bottle can you (did you) stick it back in teh fridge and offer it later?
Is it okay to boil my tap water to make formula?
When Matthias's sucking became too much, I decided to pump and give it to him in a bottle. Granted, I had 8 months maternity leave, so I could afford to sit around pumping. Others aren't so lucky.
I would offer him 4 oz at a time. If he's still hungry, up it to 5 or 6.
If you want to 'premake' formula, make 24-28 oz and store it in the fridge each day, then you can pour out 4-5 oz as you need it to heat it and you don't have to worry about reheating it.
Yes, you can boil your tapwater to make the formula, if you like. I had one of those electric kettles for instant coffee/tea that I used to heat the water.
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Lyli
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I just wanted to say
OMFG MY BOOBS HURT!!@#!@$*&#%^(!@&*^#!@#!!
that is all
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Ah-Schoo
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We'll just assume that the little guy is still doing great.
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Lyli
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He is SOooo happy on Formula now .. It's like I have a different baby!
Sleeps tons, rarely has cried.
It's amazing!
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lol
its good for you both
well, once the boobs heal 
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Princess_Bri
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Check with your insurance!
if the doc wants you to suppliment they might pay for a nice medela pump...
I pumped for a long time with E! Also if you pump you can still breast feed later. if the baby has been sucking to hard it might be because he wasnt getting enough and he could not be as ummm tough on the boobies once he gets used to getting more milk if you still want to go the boobie route
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Breastfeeding and Formula Feeding - Need Input and Opinions
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Our little girl was adopted so she grew up on formula but I did pretty much the same things as Tuneses. I did find the formula dispensers at Wal-Mart, though. My doctor told us to use purified or filtered water, never distilled as it takes too many minerals out.
Silver
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Lyli posted:
I just wanted to say
OMFG MY BOOBS HURT!!@#!@$*&#%^(!@&*^#!@#!!
that is all
massage them
... or get the hubby to massage them
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Lyli posted:
He is SOooo happy on Formula now .. It's like I have a different baby!
Sleeps tons, rarely has cried.
It's amazing!
The only unfortunate thing is that he loses the benefits associated with being breast fed. The poor little guys IQ has dropped an average of 5 points. 
http://www.breastfeeding.com/reading_room/iq_study.html
You should still try to give him as much breast milk as you can pump.
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My wife pumped and breastfed and we ended up supplementing with formula. Our little guy had trouble latching on early.
I rented a fancy Medela pump and it was worth it despite how much my wife hated using it.
Is it too late to consider pumping as well as formula?
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yeah
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BTW if someone is looking for a cheap Medela pump what I did was buy one on craigslist for cheap. Then if you call them they will send you replacement tubing for free. You can buy the cup things that touch the boobs for like 10$ i think. So essentially everything that touches you or the milk is replaced for cheap. I think I ended up paying less than 100$ for mine.
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Same sort of deal with the one I rented. Rental was very reasonable but I had to buy a kit with the tubes and cups, but that was very inexpensive, I don't recall how much, so it must have been cheap.
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-Kruugar- posted:
The only unfortunate thing is that he loses the benefits associated with being breast fed. The poor little guys IQ has dropped an average of 5 points.
http://www.breastfeeding.com/reading_room/iq_study.html
You should still try to give him as much breast milk as you can pump.
Trying to guilt someone into breastfeeding is just wrong. If it doesn't work for her, it doesn't work.
Leave it at that.
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Yeah, thanks Dar ... made me feel pretty crappy till you said something now I realize it was silly of me to think about it again
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Darwynnia
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Lyli posted:
Yeah, thanks Dar ... made me feel pretty crappy till you said something now I realize it was silly of me to think about it again
My sister suffered with nursing and pumping for 4 months with Morgan. She had auxiliary breast tissue and milk would be pouring out the side of her breast and her armpit, and Morgan would just be hungry and frustrated, which made Sue feel like crap.
Switching to formula made them BOTH happy and that's all that matters.
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Tuneses
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 Lyli, i've learned that only you really understand what you are going through. As long as baby is happy and healthy to heck with what others say!!! I felt very guilty about it with Brokk but I can only do so much, I'm not going to go into a depression over it. That wouldnt help me or him.
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This isn't the first time recently that Kruugar has posted something ignorant, rude, and crass on the forums.
Lyli, you've gotta do what's best for the both of you.
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Malrothien posted:
This isn't the first time recently that Kruugar has posted something ignorant, rude, and crass on the forums.
I only post observed facts or WHO recommendations. Please reference the so called ignorant statement, I'll link you to the scientific study or World Health Organization recommendations.
People will find every single reason or excuse to do something that is convenient for them. (The American Way)
People should be finding every single reason or excuse to what is best for their child.
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Darwynnia
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-Kruugar- posted:
Malrothien posted:
This isn't the first time recently that Kruugar has posted something ignorant, rude, and crass on the forums.
I only post observed facts or WHO recommendations. Please reference the so called ignorant statement, I'll link you to the scientific study or World Health Organization recommendations.
People will find every single reason or excuse to do something that is convenient for them. (The American Way)
People should be finding every single reason or excuse to what is best for their child.
So, with that in mind, I'm assuming that you buy and eat only organically grown produce, meats and milk. You don't smoke, nor do you allow smoking in your home even if your kids aren't present. You also don't have any carpeting, and your hardwood floors have an eco-friendly sealant on them. Your furniture should be all wood, no particleboards and no veneers, either. You have your water tested once a year, and your soil tested every 5 years.
If you don't do all of those, all the time, then you don't have the right to criticize someone else for their choice.
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-Kruugar-
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Breastfeeding and Formula Feeding - Need Input and Opinions
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Darwynnia posted:
So, with that in mind, I'm assuming that you buy and eat only organically grown produce, meats and milk(note: The hormones americans drink in their puss filled blood slurry that they call milk and eat in their toxic meat are banned in Canada and much of the progressive world. "Hormones and steroid use in Canada has been illegal since the 1960s."). You don't smoke, nor do you allow smoking in your home even if your kids aren't present. (Only a complete idiot would be a smoker. Period. You would have be even dumber to submit your children to it.) You also don't have any carpeting, and your hardwood floors have an eco-friendly sealant on them. Your furniture should be all wood, no particleboards and no veneers, either. (Please link me to the study that says that sitting on, notably not eating, a sofa made of veneers is bad for you.) You have your water tested once a year (I don't have a well, but thanks.), and your soil tested every 5 years. (sigh Link please. Who the hell in their right mind would dump carcinogens in their own back yard anyways, this is ludicrous.)
If you don't do all of those, all the time, then you don't have the right to criticize someone else for their choice.
An acquaintance of yours is pregnant and she drinks. She sees pregnancy as an incovenience because she must change her lifestyle. She ignores what little scientific information she's been exposed to in favour of anectdotal evidence of mom's on an internet board(My friend drank some wine and nothing happened. This anectdotal evidence spreads misinformation and it happens on all internet mom's boards). She's drinking vodka like it's water but, you have particle board in your house. Do you say something? Do you condemn her use of vodka to maintain her lifestyle? Do you mention the risk of FAS as a consequence of the choice?  Let's say, that if you do, you are a hypocrit. You don't have to respond, just knowing for yourself if enough. Any responsible person would report her so that she gets the help that she needs.
Bottom line, if there is something within my power that might cause me discomfort but is better for my child I WILL DO IT. Especially when it comes to his well being. I just can't understand people who choose personal convenience over well being of their child. I will not support their decisions of convenience. I will let people know the consequences of their decision.
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Ah-Schoo
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It is stats, not cause and effect. Plus, it's IQ, a useless measurement anyway. And 5 points, what's the real margin of error on a useless measurement like IQ anyway?
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Regardless, I'm pretty sure that drinking her blood and puking everything up isn't good for the baby. I'm no doctor though and I don't have any stats to back it up but it sure seems like common sense.
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I thought I was on ACF for a bit reading the recent stuff.
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Tuneses
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There is a difference between purposefully poisoning your child with alcohol and not breastfeeding. It's not like formula is paint thinner. Yes breast is best but it doesnt work out for everyone what ever the reason may be. I'd like to see you walk a mile in my shoes or Lyli's for that matter. You say you want to do what's best for your child? How about you start by not teaching ignorance.
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Malrothien
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-Kruugar- posted:
Darwynnia posted:
So, with that in mind, I'm assuming that you buy and eat only organically grown produce, meats and milk(note: The hormones americans drink in their puss filled blood slurry that they call milk and eat in their toxic meat are banned in Canada and much of the progressive world. "Hormones and steroid use in Canada has been illegal since the 1960s."). You don't smoke, nor do you allow smoking in your home even if your kids aren't present. (Only a complete idiot would be a smoker. Period. You would have be even dumber to submit your children to it.) You also don't have any carpeting, and your hardwood floors have an eco-friendly sealant on them. Your furniture should be all wood, no particleboards and no veneers, either. (Please link me to the study that says that sitting on, notably not eating, a sofa made of veneers is bad for you.) You have your water tested once a year (I don't have a well, but thanks.), and your soil tested every 5 years. (sigh Link please. Who the hell in their right mind would dump carcinogens in their own back yard anyways, this is ludicrous.)
If you don't do all of those, all the time, then you don't have the right to criticize someone else for their choice.
An acquaintance of yours is pregnant and she drinks. She sees pregnancy as an incovenience because she must change her lifestyle. She ignores what little scientific information she's been exposed to in favour of anectdotal evidence of mom's on an internet board(My friend drank some wine and nothing happened. This anectdotal evidence spreads misinformation and it happens on all internet mom's boards). She's drinking vodka like it's water but, you have particle board in your house. Do you say something? Do you condemn her use of vodka to maintain her lifestyle? Do you mention the risk of FAS as a consequence of the choice? Let's say, that if you do, you are a hypocrit. You don't have to respond, just knowing for yourself if enough. Any responsible person would report her so that she gets the help that she needs.
Bottom line, if there is something within my power that might cause me discomfort but is better for my child I WILL DO IT. Especially when it comes to his well being. I just can't understand people who choose personal convenience over well being of their child. I will not support their decisions of convenience. I will let people know the consequences of their decision.
You will let your child suck your nipple so hard that it is extremely painful?
Wow, you've got pain nerves of steal. Congrats to you.
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Darwynnia
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-Kruugar- posted:
Darwynnia posted:
So, with that in mind, I'm assuming that you buy and eat only organically grown produce, meats and milk(note: The hormones americans drink in their puss filled blood slurry that they call milk and eat in their toxic meat are banned in Canada and much of the progressive world. "Hormones and steroid use in Canada has been illegal since the 1960s."). You don't smoke, nor do you allow smoking in your home even if your kids aren't present. (Only a complete idiot would be a smoker. Period. You would have be even dumber to submit your children to it.) You also don't have any carpeting, and your hardwood floors have an eco-friendly sealant on them. Your furniture should be all wood, no particleboards and no veneers, either. (Please link me to the study that says that sitting on, notably not eating, a sofa made of veneers is bad for you.) You have your water tested once a year (I don't have a well, but thanks.), and your soil tested every 5 years. (sigh Link please. Who the hell in their right mind would dump carcinogens in their own back yard anyways, this is ludicrous.)
If you don't do all of those, all the time, then you don't have the right to criticize someone else for their choice.
You really need to check your facts before you speak there, Kruugar.
Hormones used in cattle in the USA:
Estradiol
Progesterone
Testosterone
Trenbolone
Zeranol
Source: http://www.fri.wisc.edu/briefs/hormone.pdf
Hormones used in cattle in Canada:
Estradiol
Progesterone
Testosterone
Trenbolone
Zeranol
Melengestrol acetate
Source: http://www.cahi-icsa.ca/pdf/Beef-Hormones-Factsheet.pdf
In fact, from that factsheet comes the following quote:
"The use of growth promoting hormones has been an approved and widely used management tool for raising healthy beef cattle since the 1960s."
Now, I understand how misinformation spreads on mom's internet boards when someone who has absolutely no idea what they're talking about begins to put down other people for their choices.
As an Environmental Engineer, allow me to educate you on a few key points which you seem to wish to dismiss out of hand:
Veneers, polyboard and other pressed wood particleboard are held together by glue.
The glue used contains formaldehyde.
You can read some basic information about formaldehyde here: http://extoxnet.orst.edu/faqs/indoorair/formalde.htm
If you'd rather read the Canadian version, that's here: http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hl-vs/iyh-vsv/environ/formaldehyde-eng.php
There's a positive correlation between formaldehyde in your indoor air and asthma in your child, as seen here: http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/members/2009/0901143/0901143.pdf
How much formaldehyde is released? You'd be surprised.
http://www.environmentcalifornia.org/newsroom/environmental-health/environmental-health/new-report-formaldehyde-from-baby-nursery-furniture-contaminat es-indoor-air
As far as your soil: it's not what YOU are dumping there (although you don't know what the people that owned the house BEFORE you dumped there), it's what's being dumped there via transmission.
How close are you to power plants, or other manufacturing plants - etc.
A soil test is recommended every 5 years to ensure good soil health, especially if you garden. It'll also reveal any previous uses of pesticides such as DDT. DDT is a persistent organic pollutant which bonds preferentially to fats and soil/sediment, and will remain for decades - if you live in a rural area, chances are your soil is still contaminated from DDT used in the 80's, and will still be releasing chemicals. http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/es060216m
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-Kruugar-
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What Lyli was experiencing could have been rusty pipe syndrome.
The recommendation is to continue breast feeding even though it may be concerning to see.
It usually goes away approximately 1-2 weeks after the baby is born.
http://parenting.ivillage.com/baby/bbreastfeed/0,,3x3g,00.html
The nurses probably mentioned and ruled it out I guess.
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Lyli
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It was already past 1-2 weeks after the baby was born, it was 3 and 4 ... it was bothering his stomach and was actually a LOT of blood.. Your attempts to make me feel bad aren't working so you may as well stop trying.
I would have kept going if I thought it was better for him. We were already supplementing with formula, because his Pediatrician asked us to, once a day. He was always happy when he got a bottle then the rest of the day he was misserable. The answer was quite obvious and though I felt bad at the time, he's far to happy for me to even think twice about it now.
[br]
Additionally:
Rusty-pipe syndrome is a condition, seen mostly in first-time moms, where the milk appears to be rusty in color. It is more common with first pregnancies, and mothers with this condition may notice the appearance of rusty looking milk as early as the fourth month of pregnancy. It is most commonly seen in the early stages of breastfeeding.
Rusty pipe syndrome may result from vascular engorgement of the breast. As your milk-producing glands, or alveoli, go through a period of rapid development, and the blood flow increases to your breasts, there may be some internal bleeding.
Nope, second time Mom
A survey of the Nursing Mother Association of Australia found that 50 percent of the women who had rusty-pipe syndrome had practiced nipple and areola "stretching," as you would see in the Hoffman Technique, which is often recommended for flat or inverted nipples.
Nope, didn't do that
This condition is not painful, and it will usually resolve on its own within about a week. Nursing can continue. Blood in your milk will not hurt your baby. If bleeding does last longer than a week, schedule a visit with your Health Care Provider to have this discharge properly evaluated (Lawrence 1994).
Rusty-pipe syndrome should not, on its own, affect your ability to feed your baby. Possibly you experienced severe engorgement following your baby's birth, leading to this syndrome. Unresolved engorgement can lead to a diminished milk supply.
It was actually very painful because he was drawing blood out from the nipple because he was sucking so hard. The fact that he was sucking "too hard" came form the nurse, not me.
It is very important to nurse early and often as breastfeeding is becoming established in the first six weeks. Avoid the use of pacifiers and bottles, in the hospital, and at home. If your baby is having difficulty breastfeeding in the early days, allow him lots of practice time. Don't be surprised if he starts out just licking and nuzzling at your nipple. This is very normal. Shortly, with encouragement, he'll begin to latch-on. Get help from the hospital's IBCLC to get breastfeeding off to the best start. If your baby is still not feeding well at your breast, express your milk, using a hospital-grade electric breastpump, for any incomplete or missed feed. The Lactation Consultant can also help you in feeding your expressed milk to your baby, using a cup, syringe or whatever method is determined to be best in your particular situation. Frequent feeds (or milk expression) should keep any engorgement to a minimum, helping you to stay comfortable while safeguarding your milk supply.
My baby was in the NICU for the first 12 hours of his life and I had NO choice but to let them give him a bottle. THey would not let me pump or go down to feed him. His first attempt at a latch was great, but he just sucked so hard. I also fed him ever 1-2 hours it seemed, he was constantly hungry.
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Princess_Bri
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I'm glad he's happier on formula!
Happy & Healthy Baby and Mama are ALL that matters.
I only posted the pumping info because I beat the hell out of myself when I had to stop BFing and switched E to formula, I actually still feel guilty and I wish I had known about the insurance paying for the nice medela pump, I would have been ALL over that!
Hope I didnt come off wrong in my earlier post
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Lyli
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Nope, doesn't really phase me
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