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Topic: Bullying?
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-Poptart-
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Bullying?
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I know most parents here have wee ones. This question is for those that have kids a bit older.
How old were your kids when they first encountered a bully? My son is in 3rd grade (8yrs) and he is dealing with a bully and 2 of the bully's friends. We are going to see about getting him transfered to a new class but this really surprised me. I know they all have to deal with it sometime, but in 3rd grade? I would have thought 5th or 6th at the earliest!
My son loves to learn, he was looking forward to 3rd grade and cursive writing and multiplication tables. Now it's excuses to stay home and "I don't want to go to school." 
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myxomatosis8
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That really sucks. I can't believe they want to change your son out of his class rather than have the bully disciplined and put elsewhere. A couple of 3-day suspensions would probably help that out, if you ask me! No parent is going to want to deal with that on an ongoing basis, maybe they'd actually teach their kid something positive and completely discourage any further bullying.
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-Poptart-
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Well, my son told us he moved desks a couple weeks ago. That was because of this other kid bullying him. The school has told us nothing at all. We heard all of this from my son, and he's not one to make up stories, and I believe him all the more because of his not wanting to go to school.
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myxomatosis8
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I would completely believe your son as well. It's not normal from a kid to go from enjoying school to not wanting to go unless something is very wrong there.
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Silverwuf
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Subject:
Bullying?
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I would be at school raising holy hell about this. Having your kid bullied by his classmates is certainly not conducive to learning. I'd be demanding that the bullies be removed from the room rather than the child that has to endure it. It's not fair to the good kid to have to make allowances for kids who aren't disciplined enough to mind their manners.
Silver
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Brother_Tempus
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Bullying?
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Smaller classes and a system that actually likes departmental involvement can curb most bullying issues .. sadly the public school system ruins counter to this
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pkhere
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Subject:
Bullying?
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Silverwuf posted:
I would be at school raising holy hell about this. Having your kid bullied by his classmates is certainly not conducive to learning. I'd be demanding that the bullies be removed from the room rather than the child that has to endure it. It's not fair to the good kid to have to make allowances for kids who aren't disciplined enough to mind their manners.
Silver
this 
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Ah-Schoo
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Subject:
Bullying?
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But my precious little bully has rights! You can't keep him from classes!
etc.
In the litigious American society the school can't possibly do the correct thing without being sued, and losing.
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pkhere
Title: Yes, they are real
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Subject:
Bullying?
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Ah-Schoo posted:
But my precious little bully has rights! You can't keep him from classes!
etc.
In the litigious American society the school can't possibly do the correct thing without being sued, and losing.
our son handled it himself when he was in 2nd or 3rd grade
This boy was messing with him in the cafeteria. He said the boy kept trying to take his food, and other things. Well, it continued out to the play ground. Our son towered over this kid, but he had to prove he wasn't afraid of our son.
Finally Patrick got tired of it, turned around, and asked the boy (willis) to leave him alone. Well, Willis wouldn't stop tormenting our son. He went home with a shiner that day. Our son was in the principal's office when we were called to the school. He never got into much trouble because two teacher's witnessed the whole thing on the playground. they were on their way over to the boys, when Willis ended up on the ground.
Probably not the way to handle things, but Patrick never had anymore problems from Willis.
It's a good thing it takes alot to upset our son, because he is big enough to really hurt someone in a physical fight.
Good Luck with this problem Poppy. 
-----signature-----
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Jezza, so you know, you've been moved to the
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Ah-Schoo
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Subject:
Bullying?
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Sounds about the same as I had at a similar age. Punched the annoying kid in the eye and that was the end of it. Same deal too, I was much bigger and no idea why the other guy was bugging.
Had pretty much the same scenario happen once in high school. One punch and next week we got along just fine. Napolean issues or something 
-----signature-----
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Opinion = fact. Anecdote = proof. Political label more important than either of those.
Welcome to ACF, where debate goes to die.
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Kottonmouth_King_HG
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Subject:
Bullying?
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My son is 5, is in kindergarten, and is the only white child in his class. He's being bullied right now. He's told me that he's reported to his teacher, etc. but it doesn't seem to work, he's still being bullied.
So today I was able to go to school with him (at least for breakfast). Had I not went, I think he would be sitting by himself. ...but I'm working on this. It's really his third full week of school. He'll make some friends, and usually there's haters to go with them.
It may be too early but... I've started to teach him to protect himself. He said he got slapped when he walked into class today by his bully.
I've told my son that if he listens to me, and eats what I tell him to, he'll get big and strong, and one will want to mess with him, it's as simple as that. I've also told him that if he doesn't want to eat veggies now, sooner or later he's gonna get sick of being picked on, and will eventually eat the right foods to get bigger.
In a way, I'm killing two agendas with one. Him eating right, and handling bullies. 
I'll let you know how this is working.
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-Poptart-
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Subject:
Bullying?
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Well, his father went to the school yesterday, apparently the teacher knew nothing 
So now shes going to keep a 'look out' for it and let the other teachers (music, PE etc) know. She did say if anything needs to be done or anyone needs to be moved, it will be the other child and not my son so thats good.
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pkhere
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Subject:
Bullying?
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Is good your husband talked to the right people. Glad things are better. My husband use to say to me, "oh don't be goin over to the school and griping over little things." That use to make me so mad!
-----signature-----
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murron2
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Subject:
Bullying?
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Poppy first let me say that I am sorry that this is happening to your son and you The first time my son was bullied (we had just moved to NY) one kid on the bus coaxed another into hitting my son in the mouth. My son got off the bus with a bloody lip. When I asked my son what happened he said,"Frank told Tim to hit me in the mouth and Tim did." I said,"Did anything happen before that?" "Nope Mom I was just sitting in my seat and Tim came up and punched me in the mouth." I called Tim's Mom on the phone because even tho we had been in NY only a month her son had befriended my son prior to this incident and we had exchanged phone numbers. She came to my house immediately with her son and she said she had asked Tim why he did what he did..which was one of my main questions also. Tim said, "Frank asked me to." Simple as that. Frank for whatever reason did not like the super quiet new kid and had someone do his bidding for him. My son never was friends with Tim after that My son was 6 years old when this happened.
A year later was the 2nd time I was aware he was bullied. Two brothers who were quite a bit older than he were bullying him on the bus stop (unbeknown to me) . I was a family child care provider at the time and depending on what time the children arrived at my home would determine how long I stayed at the stop. The bus stop was two houses away from me and I could see my son perfectly from my front window. So one morning I look out the window after just having walked him to the stop and I see my son being SLAMMED FACE DOWN into the mud and snow by two older boys who were brothers. I grabbed the kids I had at the time and ran two doors up. The boys were smiling like Cheshire cats. My son saw me and headed toward me...all muddy and tears streaming down his face. I took him home and washed him up and took him to school later. I notified the bus garage and called the boys' parents after getting their phone number. The bullies' father told me that 'Boys will be boys' and I was LIVID. I apprised all the parents of the children I watched of the situation and each agreed to allow their child to ride in my van each day as I took my son to school. This went on for months until one day my son said he wanted to ride the bus again. The family the boys belonged to suddenly moved from the neighborhood.
I became something of a 'bullying expert'. I read everything I could and I bought videos that I shared with the school. This was in 1993 and the next year the school system adopted a 'ZERO tolerance' regarding bullying.
Bullying is NOT new in terms of humankind. It affects kids deeply. It HAS to be taken seriously and addressed. I am happy your son spoke up Poppy!  Let us know how it goes please and hang in there! Truly...
~Murron~
It is NEVER acceptable.
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-Poptart-
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Thanks Murron
One week now and he's had 0 problems so hopefully its being taken care of.
I found out this week that the other child is in Pace as well as the Chess club my son joined
its like hes EVERYWHERE lol
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Tipztoe
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Tell your son it's ok to defend himself.
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Pulp_Gareth
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I used to get bullied when I was a young 'un. Finally he pushed me over the edge and I beat the crap out of him.
Problem solved.
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murron2
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Poppy I hope things are still well Truly...
~Murron~
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bong051469
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TOS Trolling
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Kottonmouth_King_HG
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Thanks to my nurses hrs type schedule, I was able to join my son for breakfast at his school some days. During those days, I was his 'hero'. You can tell that look in his eyes, it's awesome.
Anyway, I helped him make friends with the kids in his class. He says his "bullies" don't pick on him no more.
Last Friday, I went to the zoo with his class (parents were allowed to go if they they'd like.) I went, and provided snacks during break, helped lil ones see the animals, etc. In the end, they loved me, as well as the teacher, for helping out.
In fact, the "bully" that slapped him, hugged me today.
Nothing is better than when your child looks at you like you're his hero.. nothing.
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-Poptart-
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Things are going well. Due to my work schedule I'm not able to go to his school with him but we did have a long talk about how to 'handle' people and how to make friends on top of what his father did with the teachers. He is now making friends with the bully (turns out they are both in chess club and PACE together so they have a lot in common)
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RealMortimir
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I must warn you, I'm not going to give you PC advice. But I am going to give you advice that, if properly executed, has a high probability of success.
It is sweet to think that teachers really care about bullying (in my experience most do not). And it is also very nice to think that if they did care they could or would do anything effective about it.
It's late, so I'm getting right to the point:
You need to tell your son that the next time someone tries to bully him to state calmly, bluntly, but in a non-confrontational manner that they are absolutely not to repeat the offending behavior. Something like a stern, serious (not loud or inflammatory) "Don't touch me again. I'm serious. Do NOT touch me." If the bully ignores his very reasonable warning, then your son needs to lay into him like a windmill in a tornado. Whether or not he "wins" the fight doesn't matter. The point is that he wants to go so animalistic on the budding sociopath that the kid is afraid to bother him in the future. Assuming your son's bully has an advantage on him of some sort, make sure your son understands that he needs to attack explosively and strike for the bully's groin and face hard, fast, and repeatedly until it is clear that the bully has been put in his place. And, again, if he can't beat the bully the goal is to make it clear that the bully is going to risk pain and injury if he insists on continuing to assault your son. Take as an example a wasp or any bee. A human being could easily pick up the insect and crush it in his or her hands. But no one in his/her right mind would dare do it! You want your son to be like that bee.
Your son is very much a minor, so there is no point, realistically, in worrying about ramifications. Unless he pulls a weapon or goes way overboard and gives the bully serious injuries (bloody nose, fat, busted lips, black eyes, etc. are NOT serious injuries) there will be no REAL issue other than stupid school punishments like suspension at the most for likely no more than one week. And in the long run such a suspension matters a lot less than your son learning to protect himself and not rely on inept teachers to save him. They can't, and they won't. The fact is that your son is extremely unlikely to convey any serious damage to his bully despite his best efforts. He can likely "kick his ass", so to speak, but he's not at all likely to do him any serious, lasting harm.
Explain to him beforehand that the school may act like he's committed a federal offense. Tell him that doesn't matter. Tell him if the school were willing and able to do its job he wouldn't have to do what he might have to do. It is in fact the school's fault for leaving him no reasonable recourse. And be ready to back him up to the administrators. Don't let THEM bully YOU! Tell them straight up that you will not tolerate your son being a bully or starting fights but that he has been told to defend himself when necessary and under no circumstances to suffer a bully. Threaten law suits, etc., even if you don't mean to follow through. Make sure they realize the responsibility to maintain civility in the school is exclusively there's. When they fail they levae your son no choice.
Finally, if your son is truly lousy at fighting, get him into a Brazilian Jiu-jitsu children's class. The skills he acquires will quickly allow him to effectively defend against a bully without doing any more harm than absolutely necessary, even if said bully is physically larger and stronger. Perhaps most importantly, though, make sure your son knows that he is under no circumstances to become a bully himself! Let him know that if you even suspect he's bullying that he'll get it so badly from you that you are sure he won't think it was worth it (in terms of non-physical punishment, ideally).
I'm exhausted, so I hope that is clear.
Good Luck!
Mortimir
P.S. - If he defends against the bully as I suggest and fails, and if the bully confronts him on a future occasion, tell him to respond the same way only even more ferociously. I'm saying this metaphorically, but he needs to maintain the attitude of, "If you're gonna bully me you better kill me! I will ALWAYS hit back with all I've got no matter how many times I've lost to you in the past." Most likely the bully will get the point and find another target. If not, your son will gain the reputation of being "un-bullyable" for not showing any fear and unhesitatingly defending himself. He will also escalate the situation far beyond what the bully wants and draw enough attention to FORCE the school to solve the problem. Personally, if I couldn't beat a bully, I'd be more than willing to jump him later when he least expects it, clobber him with a lunch tray or something, and then just beat the holy hell out of him. While it isn't ideal to start a fight, if you're sending a message in response to an earlier loss, I personally find that acceptable. The sad truth is that if you and your son don't accept the harsh reality of bullying it's likely to get much worse before it gets beter. Make sure he gets the reputation of being "un-bullyable" before he's too close to 18 when there is much greater risk of serious injury and legal consequences.
P.P.S. - Thankfully dealing with this sort of thing becomes unnecessary for most of us soon after we get out of high school. Understand that I would not ever behave as an adult as I recommend your son act as a child. The consequences and risks are much greater for adults. The sad fact is, however, that our school systems pretty much leave children like your son no choice but to endure bullying or take matters into his own hands and cultivate the reputation of being, again, "un-bullyable".
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-Poptart-
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Subject:
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Hey Mort, you didn't bother to read beyond the first post, did you?
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myxomatosis8
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-Poptart- posted:
Hey Mort, you didn't bother to read beyond the first post, did you?
Given content of post, would you be surprised?
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RealMortimir
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No, I'm sorry, I did not. It was very late, and I was on my way to bed when I saw the post. Did I put my foot in my mouth too badly?...=\ I really have my hands full, but I will try to read over the other posts in a bit and see where I lost my path!
Thanks in advance for being polite about it...=)
Mortimir
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RealMortimir
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Subject:
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Ah, upon reading over the rest I see the issue seems more or less solved. However, I would have still posted something like what I did. Other bullying issues could come up in the future and present more difficulty in the way of their resolution. In my experience the methods most parents first employ out of desire to be PC and not endorse violence do far more hard than good. You have to remember that your child's reputation has a LOT to do with how his peers treat him. Children are stupid and don't respect civility and peace like we adults do. They tend to operate on baser instincts. If you spend too much time on mature solution to the knowledge of a child's peers, you run a serious risk of making him a bigger target.
I do hope this is the original poster's last experience with a bully. I absolutely loathe bullying behavior. When I was about 12 years old I was removed from a fairly good school that seriously frowned on ANY violence (even a light shove had you in the principal's office!). I ended up having to go to a rural school where fist fighting was a way of life and bullying was rampant. Thankfully, I was always very capable of defending myself--had not only the physical capability but was rather good at "talking" my way out of situations. As a result, I took it upon myself to look out for victims of bullies. Just the other day I saw a picture in the paper of an old friend from high school with his wife. I remembered that when he came to that redneck school from a large, northern city with a very good school system, that he was quite small for his age. At that high school he may as well have come with a target painted on him! However, due to my regular intervention over the first year or so of his being in attendance, he NEVER actually had to endure any physical assault. I didn't have to, either. But I was extremely good at selling the fact that if my civil attempts to resolve a bullying problem were insufficient that I was more than willing to "go balls to the wall", as it were, to prove that bullying would not be tolerated in my presence. I had the reputation of being good to my word, and a great deal of horse play with various friends in school had proven that I was likely very capable of doing severe damage if pushed. So, anyway, it is based on these experiences from my past that I advise people on how to handle bullies.
Best wishes!
Mortimir
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Pulp_Gareth
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Kottonmouth_King_HG posted:
Thanks to my nurses hrs type schedule, I was able to join my son for breakfast at his school some days. During those days, I was his 'hero'. You can tell that look in his eyes, it's awesome.
Anyway, I helped him make friends with the kids in his class. He says his "bullies" don't pick on him no more.
Last Friday, I went to the zoo with his class (parents were allowed to go if they they'd like.) I went, and provided snacks during break, helped lil ones see the animals, etc. In the end, they loved me, as well as the teacher, for helping out.
In fact, the "bully" that slapped him, hugged me today.
Nothing is better than when your child looks at you like you're his hero.. nothing.
Great story but you better let him figure out how to set things straight for himself because you're not always going to be there.
-----signature-----
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myxomatosis8
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Grr somehow my post got messed up.
Kotton:
Agree though that soon it'll be more harm than good to go to school and fix stuff for your little man. Can't blame you for going now though, he's so little and just starting school!
Another question... you said you did breakfast at his school a couple times with him... Why would you eat with him at school instead of at home before school? I always thought that school breakfasts were for kids that had difficult family circumstances or really early start schedules or something.
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Kottonmouth_King_HG
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myxomatosis8 posted:
Grr somehow my post got messed up.
Kotton:
Agree though that soon it'll be more harm than good to go to school and fix stuff for your little man. Can't blame you for going now though, he's so little and just starting school!
Another question... you said you did breakfast at his school a couple times with him... Why would you eat with him at school instead of at home before school? I always thought that school breakfasts were for kids that had difficult family circumstances or really early start schedules or something.
There's 2 good reasons for this.
1. My son does not ever want to eat when he first gets up. Usually it's an half and hr to an hr before he's ready for anything to drink or eat. Some mornings, he'll want to eat, and I'll make him french toast, or we'll got to McD's and he'll have pancakes. I never really give him cereal. I dunno why?
2. Since I know his early morning eating habits. I usually just let him get as much sleep as possible.
Besides, I think his class, as well as the other classes meet in the lunch room first thing in the morning, whether they eat there or not.
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Kottonmouth_King_HG
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Pulp_Gareth posted:
Kottonmouth_King_HG posted:
Thanks to my nurses hrs type schedule, I was able to join my son for breakfast at his school some days. During those days, I was his 'hero'. You can tell that look in his eyes, it's awesome.
Anyway, I helped him make friends with the kids in his class. He says his "bullies" don't pick on him no more.
Last Friday, I went to the zoo with his class (parents were allowed to go if they they'd like.) I went, and provided snacks during break, helped lil ones see the animals, etc. In the end, they loved me, as well as the teacher, for helping out.
In fact, the "bully" that slapped him, hugged me today.
Nothing is better than when your child looks at you like you're his hero.. nothing.
Great story but you better let him figure out how to set things straight for himself because you're not always going to be there.
Oh I know.... but it's his first time in school, and we going thru it together so he don't feel lost, or without support. Next year, it'll be different for him.
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Fallen_Crow
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I've been on both sides of this parenting fence, to some degree.
My 11 year old daughter is Ms Athletic, so she always runs with her sports friends (the girls from basketball and boys from baseball, primarily). She's never had a problem with bullying and has been bold enough to step forward when her friend was starting to bully some of the smaller kids around.
My 7 year old son, on the other hand, isn't friends with many of the boys in his class (a couple from his baseball team, but most of his team goes to another elementary school), but the girls love him. He's had a couple problems with neighborhood kids giving him grief at the bus stop/on the bus, and with a couple of the older boys at school. I've had no problems addressing the neighborhood kids, as our house is the regular hangout of the neighborhood (they don't want to play nice, they're welcome to go play elsewhere). My daughter put her foot down with the older boys at school, but this is their last year in the same school, so I'm curious as to what he'll do next year without her watching over him.
On the flip side...I got to have a meeting at the school this year with a teacher my son had in Kindergarten because she saw him get mad and push a girl down on the playground during recess. The story she put together from both kids is that the girl was saying mean things about my daughter and my son had his fill of it and was trying to stand up for her (as she's done for him).
Needless to say, we've had lengthy talks about how we're proud of his reasons, but not his methods, about what is and is not acceptable playground behavior, and why his actions weren't acceptable.
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