Amendial
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I have offically had enough!
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I will no longer defend Brett Farve. Sorry but I can only defend the man through a couple unretirements. I will never look at the man as greatly as I would have if he wouldn't of turned into a media Diva at the end of his career. And @ ESPN stop eating this crap up.
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stevenonfire
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Still love him. Vikings are sooo winning the souper bowl this year.
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Bernion
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I hate our gd fantasy waiver process, I put in to pick Favre up at 6:20am Monday morning but of course it doesn't process anything until Wednesday and I'm 10th in the waiver position 
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Northwind_WE
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Bernion posted:
I hate our gd fantasy waiver process, I put in to pick Favre up at 6:20am Monday morning but of course it doesn't process anything until Wednesday and I'm 10th in the waiver position
Heh, so did I but I was waiver#9...
I cannot and will not defend him either, other then to say the $12 million guaranteed just for playing the first game this year would make me reconsider a lot of things! 
So the queens now have the NFL's interception record holder and the one of the oldest QB's in the league. The bears have a new QB that is pretty much a crybaby with a little bit of talent and Detroit is well.. Detroit.
I'm liking GB's chances this year 
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gandalf19
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If you ignore the name and look at the stats Favre was the #13 fantasy QB last year. And the Jets were cruising to the playoffs until Saint Favre imploded the last 4 games. I am going to go out on a limb here and state that barring injury Kyle Orton will produce more fantasy points this year than Favre (He only finished about 20 behind with no wide receivers last year).
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Pariahwulfen
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Amendial posted:
I will no longer defend Brett Farve. Sorry but I can only defend the man through a couple unretirements. I will never look at the man as greatly as I would have if he wouldn't of turned into a media Diva at the end of his career. And @ ESPN stop eating this crap up.
That's like telling ESPN to stop trying to get everyone to except Tim Teblow as their lord and saviour
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Amendial
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Yeah I'm seriously considering not watching ESPN anymore.
EDIT: And I appoligize for the waiver system right now, I'm tweeking it to make it where I want it to be. Those who took out waiver claims should now be at the bottom of wavier prioity.
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Boone-Eldar
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I can't wait for our first SB trophy now that we have a legit starting QB 
Favre won't do much stat wise, but he will keep teams from stacking the box on AP and that is all we need to win.
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Wargasam
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Amendial posted:
Yeah I'm seriously considering not watching ESPN anymore.
EDIT: And I appoligize for the waiver system right now, I'm tweeking it to make it where I want it to be. Those who took out waiver claims should now be at the bottom of wavier prioity.
Umm i dropped a player and added BF the other day and now there is no record of that? What happened? Did the tweaking erase it all?
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Bernion
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Boone-Eldar posted:
I can't wait for our first SB trophy now that we have a legit starting QB
Favre won't do much stat wise, but he will keep teams from stacking the box on AP and that is all we need to win.
this is pretty much it
it seems that everyone I talk to just starts going off on how he's old and can't carry a team anymore, seriously all he has to do is hand the gd ball off and throw once and a while, basically he can afford to be a middle of the line QB in MN and the Vikings are still going to be much more effective, I haven't taken a look at the Vikings' Defense at all but if its decent I'd say they're the favorite for the NFC now
and this is coming from a Cheesehead
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Amendial
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All undrafted players were on waivers until this morning. Fantasy Killers was the first in line for waiver transactions, and he claimed Brett off waivers. What you had set up was a waiver claim wargasam, when it came up to your name for waivers farve was already taken and so the transaction was cancelled. That part of the system was not being messed with. The part I had to tweek, and found out I have to do it automatically, is the waiver order after claims have been made. I reordered the waiver order to put those who took out successful waiver claims today at the bottom of the waiver order. During the season the teams with the worst records will be automatically reorder into waiver order depending on thier record each week.
It goes by each team in waiver order and grants on transaction and then moves to the next and cycles back through to the top again after each team has had a chance at 1 transaction. The system continues to do this until all waiver claims have been processed. Currently all players who were not dropped this morning are free agents, they are available for pick up immediately. You can tell wheather a player is a FA or on Waivers by looking under his owner status. If it says something with "W 8/19" that means he is on waviers until August 19th. If it says "FA" that means he is a free agent and first team to put a claim in for him gets him. If you put a claim in on a waiver wire player you must wait until early in the morning on the day it says until the claim is processed and they will be processed in waiver order priority.
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Boone-Eldar
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Bernion posted:
I haven't taken a look at the Vikings' Defense at all but if its decent I'd say they're the favorite for the NFC now
and this is coming from a Cheesehead
The Vikes D is one of the best in the league. We had a stacked team this year even w/out Favre. Now with a legit QB we are going to be very hard to beat.
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Amendial
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lol calling a 40 year old qb legit. Not to mention he has a rotator cuff tear. I can not believe the way the Vikings are tring to screw themselves. Do me a favor go back and look at Tavaris Jackson in the last four games of the season last year. Then look at Farve in the last four games and tell me he is a better option than Tavaris is.
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Pariahwulfen
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From a Browns fan, I'll say that the Vik's D is beastly, the O-line is amazing, and the RB stable makes me drool. I do not however know how good their Wide Receivers really are, this could be because of the QB or Tavaris could have sucked simply because the WR's aren't really all that good.
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stevenonfire
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Favre is legit and age shouldnt matter. Sorry Amendial but youre just gonna have to sit back and watch papa favre take the vikes to the souperbowl. Better luck next year for your Jaguars (or you love for African American QBs since they seem to be the only ones that you like(I personally think that you are just being racist against my(white) people))
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Boone-Eldar
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Amendial posted:
lol calling a 40 year old qb legit. Not to mention he has a rotator cuff tear. I can not believe the way the Vikings are tring to screw themselves.
1. He is 39
2. He has had the tear for years, including most likely the 2007 season where he carried the Packers to a 13-3 record.
Amendial posted:
Do me a favor go back and look at Tavaris Jackson in the last four games of the season last year. Then look at Farve in the last four games and tell me he is a better option than Tavaris is.
Go check out the playoff game against the Eagles last year or the first two games before Jackson got benched for Gus Ferrotte and ask yourself the same question.
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gandalf19
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stevenonfire posted:
Favre is legit and age shouldnt matter. Sorry Amendial but youre just gonna have to sit back and watch papa favre take the vikes to the souperbowl. Better luck next year for your Jaguars (or you love for African American QBs since they seem to be the only ones that you like(I personally think that you are just being racist against my(white) people))
Age doesn't matter huh, then why aren't Elway, Marino, Young and Montana still playing???? And did you see any of the Jets last 4 games when Favre self-destructed? If the Vikes make the Super Bowl this year it'll be in spite of Favre not because of him. And if Favre's legit, why didn't the Jets try to keep him???
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Pariahwulfen
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Didn't Marino play for 18 seasons, and still have gas in the tank?
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Boone-Eldar
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gandalf19 posted:
Age doesn't matter huh, then why aren't Elway, Marino, Young and Montana still playing???? And did you see any of the Jets last 4 games when Favre self-destructed? If the Vikes make the Super Bowl this year it'll be in spite of Favre not because of him. And if Favre's legit, why didn't the Jets try to keep him???
Elway won Superbowls at age 37 and 38 after having the exact same procedure Favre just had.
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Amendial
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Getting called a Racist against white people? Thats a new one. I'm an equal opertunity hater, color of your skin doesnt matter to me. When's the last time a QB over the age 35 won the superbowl. '02 Bucc's maybe? The fact of the matter is, the Vikings wouldnt have even been in the playoffs last year if Tavaris Jackson hadnt come in the last four games and carried that team to the playoffs. The Jets would have been in the playoff if Farve hadn't self destructed and carried them to an early off season. Lie to yourselves if you want if I had to pick right now I would take Jackson over Farve in a heart beat. LoL at being called a racist, that was a classic one.
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Pariahwulfen
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Amendial posted:
Getting called a Racist against white people? Thats a new one. I'm an equal opertunity hater, color of your skin doesnt matter to me. When's the last time a QB over the age 35 won the superbowl. '02 Bucc's maybe? The fact of the matter is, the Vikings wouldnt have even been in the playoffs last year if Tavaris Jackson hadnt come in the last four games and carried that team to the playoffs. The Jets would have been in the playoff if Farve hadn't self destructed and carried them to an early off season. Lie to yourselves if you want if I had to pick right now I would take Jackson over Farve in a heart beat. LoL at being called a racist, that was a classic one.
I'd take Rosenfells
Edit: Also, Elway didn't suck that badly the season before he had that surgery...
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stevenonfire
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You haters can sit there and hate, meanwhile I'll be over here enjoying a Vikings superbowl season.
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Amendial
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And while you are off in a dreamland I will be here watching the Vikings lose some games late in the season to miss the playoffs because they didn't have Tavaris Jackson to come in the last four games and carry them to the playoffs.
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stevenonfire
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They'll still have him, he'll just be benched because they know he's worthless compared to Favre
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Pariahwulfen
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stevenonfire posted:
They'll still have him, he'll just be benched because they know he's worthless compared to Favre
until the end of the season when Favre's arm seems to fall off...
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stevenonfire
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Even a man with a broken arm is better than Tardvaris Chokeson
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Amendial
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Yeah Tavaris really choked down the streach. 8 td to 1 Int in the last four games last season. If he doesnt carry that team like he did at the end of the season last year, they dont make the playoffs. Sure he didnt perform well in the playoff game, but at the same time he didn't perform horribly awful in it either. The Jets were 9-3 and had all but locked up a playoff spot until Farve desided to choke away the season by throwing 8 ints to 2 tds. If that not a defination of a choker Idk what is. Tarvaris had 9 td's to 2 ints last season in just 6 games, while Farve needed 16 to throw 23 tds and 23 ints. Take Tarvaris stats out over a 16 game season and he throws about 21 td to 5 int. I'll take 21 Tds with only 5 Ints over 23 Tds with 23 Ints anyday. I'll take the quarterback that comes in the last four game and wins three of them to get me to the playoff over the quarterback who loses 3 of the last four games to make me lose a spot in the playoffs. I hope the Vikings trade Tavaris so they can suffer for this injustice they have done to him.
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1. What is a streach?
2. 15-for-35 for 164 yards in the game with one interception and NO TDs IS horribly awful. You must have low standards for QBs.
3. Taking stats from 4 games and trying to simulate how they'd stretch out isn't a fair way to measure stats at all. Its just stupid and shows how truly idiotic you are.
4. For the LAST time Adrian Peterson carried them the last 4 games, NOT Tarvaris. Just because Tarvaris happened to NOT suck the last 4 games doesn't mean he is some great QB and it DEFINITELY doesn't mean that he's a better QB than Brett Favre.
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Amendial
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Yeah, ok. This is pointless, all we can do it sit and wait. I will say this, I'll bet you anything that the Vikings do not win the superbowl or even make the superbowl. Farve will blow it just like he did in the NFC title game a few years ago and just like he did last season with the Jets. He is a choker now.
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Amendial
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Also, I got a good laugh out of the guy talking about haivng low standards for QB's even though he is talking up a 39 year old QB. Farve is 39 years old, he doesnt belong on the football field anymore.
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Pariahwulfen
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Amendial posted:
Also, I got a good laugh out of the guy talking about haivng low standards for QB's even though he is talking up a 39 year old QB. Farve is 39 years old, he doesnt belong on the football field anymore.
I'm pretty sure there was an Oakland Raiders QB who played into his mid forties...
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Boone-Eldar
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Amendial posted:
I hope the Vikings trade Tavaris so they can suffer for this injustice they have done to him.
I wonder if the CFL has anyone worth trading for.
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Boone-Eldar
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Favre sure had one crappy year...
/snicker
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Amendial
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Yeah that was a great finish, losing to Arizona, Carolina, and lol Chicago. Enjoy the last Vikings game of the season this weekend.
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Amendial
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In fact I would be willing to make a wager on the Vikings playoff run. If the Vikings win the NFC I will make a post proclaiming Brett Farve to be one of the best quarterbacks in teh league, and also proclaiming that I know absolutely nothings about football. However, if the Vikings fail to win the NFC you have to make a post proclaiming that Farve was indeed over-rated and you were wrong Minnesota would have been better without him.
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I have offically had enough!
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Hehe, Amendial, I commend you for speaking your mind and sticking to your guns. But do you really and truly feel that the Vikings would have been better off without Favre? That he was over-rated?
33 TDs to 7 INTs, 4200 yards, a 107 QB rating and a first round bye in the playoffs.
Do you honestly believe Jackson would have done better and they should have kicked Favre to the curb?
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Ynisfre
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It's also a misnomer to say that if the Vikings are out in the first round it means that the decision was a wrong one. The Vikings first game happens to be against the hottest team in the league right now. Whether or not they actually win, they're in the discussion. They have a chance. That's all you can really ask for. It's like saying if the Cardinals don't win the Super Bowl, resigning Kurt Warner was a bust and they should have given Matt Leinart the reps. Hindsight is always 20/20.
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Amendial
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Based on the number Tavaris put up to end the season last year I believe there was the potential for him to put up good numbers. Farve is a one year stop gap, why can't people see that; it is a failure if they do not win the Superbowl, because this was a, going for it all move. Brett Farve was not signed to take the Vikings to a first round bye, lose and then retire. Hey thats great he was able to lead them to a first round bye, even though he did exactally what I thought he would do, collapse at crunch time. I do believe Tavaris would have been better down the road for the Vikings, and he is a young guy so he can build on the success he would have this season.
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Stiger
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Brett Favre was not hired to guarantee a Super Bowl. He was hired because the coach and owner felt he gave them the best shot at the Super Bowl. These guys know nothing is guaranteed in the NFL. If they don't make the big game, Childress isn't going to sit around and say, "crap, guess we shouldn't have signed Favre, he failed us."
Jackson may turn out to be a good player down the road for the team. He will benefit from sitting behind Favre and learning (just like Hasselbeck and Rodgers benefited in their time as backup). But to keep saying they would be better off playing Jackson because he had a few good games last year is just being stubborn. They should have taken their chances with a guy who might be good eventually when they had a shot at a proven winner?
They felt this was their year. All the pieces were there, all they needed was a stable veteran QB. It could have blown up in their face, but so far it's working pretty well.
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Liquid741
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Amendial posted:
Based on the number Tavaris put up to end the season last year I believe there was the potential for him to put up good numbers. Farve is a one year stop gap, why can't people see that; it is a failure if they do not win the Superbowl, because this was a, going for it all move. Brett Farve was not signed to take the Vikings to a first round bye, lose and then retire. Hey thats great he was able to lead them to a first round bye, even though he did exactally what I thought he would do, collapse at crunch time. I do believe Tavaris would have been better down the road for the Vikings, and he is a young guy so he can build on the success he would have this season.
 he is not near the QB Farve is or every will be...the Vikes brought him in because they want to be in the position they are now. with Jackson they are a sub-par team...im not sure there is a team out there that would pick Jackson up and put him as their starter...not even Jacksonville  .
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Stiger
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The kid may have potential. But 2 or 3 years down the road, Jackson may be ready, but they may not have the rest of the pieces still in place. With Favre in the mix, they had their best shot to win now.
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Amendial
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Brett Farve will be a failure in Minnesota. You can bring up his regular season numbers all you want, that is not what he is here for. Anything less than a Superbowl Championship is a failure. I have said before that the Vikings probally would not have been the number 2 seed in the playoffs with Tavaris, but they would have made the playoffs and they would have been a better team in the playoffs. On top of that they would be a better team heading into the next season. After this year where are they going to be at? Same spot they were to start this year, only a year older. Farve will retire and the window of opertunity will be one more season closer to being closed. Who is going to lead the Vikings then, Tavaris? Not after they way they treated him this season.
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Amendial
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I don't buy into this "he can learn under Brett Farve" stuff. Players play and coaches coach. If Farve wants to teach the young guy, retire and become the Minnesota quarterbacks coach.
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Ynisfre
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So Peyton Manning has only had one successful year. Dan Marino never did anything of value. Or does Brett Favre get held to a different standard because you need it to make your argument?
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Stiger
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Trent Dilfer is more of a success story than Dan Marino.
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.Juzam.
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Guys!
Its no use arguing with a beaker... They can never use concrete evidence or logic to defend their stances!!
Actually, I am still confused as to why Amendial who doesn't seem to have any ties to Minnesota or Green Bay has such an avid opinion on this subject. Maybe if it was a Jacksonville QB, or well, I just don't know..
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Stiger
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He's either Tarvaris Jackson, one of Jackson's relatives, or one of Jackson's lovers. There's no other explanation.
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Liquid741
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hope the Vikes draft well, because Jackson is not their future...if so, dark days lay ahead for the Fans in Minnesota.
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Liquid741
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Amendial posted:
Brett Farve will be a failure in Minnesota. You can bring up his regular season numbers all you want, that is not what he is here for. Anything less than a Superbowl Championship is a failure. I have said before that the Vikings probally would not have been the number 2 seed in the playoffs with Tavaris, but they would have made the playoffs and they would have been a better team in the playoffs. On top of that they would be a better team heading into the next season. After this year where are they going to be at? Same spot they were to start this year, only a year older. Farve will retire and the window of opertunity will be one more season closer to being closed. Who is going to lead the Vikings then, Tavaris? Not after they way they treated him this season.
Please...he is still getting paid, and its not like he will be able to leave and demand anything from any other team. i really dont think any NFL teams are going to be lining up for his ability to QB.
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Amendial
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Peyton Manning wasn't signed at the age of 39 by a team to lead them to the playoffs. Nor was Dan Marino, or any of the other greats you are talking about. Its not that hard to see, they did not sign him to have one great year under him and then be up the creek without a paddle. You sign a guy who is likely to retire for one reason, to lead your team to the Superbowl. The point I am making is that long term the Vikings would have been better to play Tarvaris than start Farve this year. You guys like to throw around Brett Farves numbers and then turn around and ignore what Tavaris did to end the season last year.
And Juzam, what else is there to do on these boards? Its pretty dead, without the Brett Farve debate there would be little reason to visit here. I argue simply for the entertainment.
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Slaval
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Amendial posted:
Peyton Manning wasn't signed at the age of 39 by a team to lead them to the playoffs. Nor was Dan Marino, or any of the other greats you are talking about. Its not that hard to see, they did not sign him to have one great year under him and then be up the creek without a paddle. You sign a guy who is likely to retire for one reason, to lead your team to the Superbowl. The point I am making is that long term the Vikings would have been better to play Tarvaris than start Farve this year. You guys like to throw around Brett Farves numbers and then turn around and ignore what Tavaris did to end the season last year.
And Juzam, what else is there to do on these boards? Its pretty dead, without the Brett Farve debate there would be little reason to visit here. I argue simply for the entertainment.
So would the Cardinals been better to stick with Leinart over Warner?
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Stiger
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"You
guys like to throw around Brett Farves numbers and then turn around and
ignore what Tavaris did to end the season last year."
And you're stuck on Jackson's numbers from 4 games in the regular season. Then in the playoffs, he had 42% completion, 164 yards, 0 TDs, 1 INT and 1 Fumble. I thought Favre was the wrong choice because he's gonna crumble in the playoffs.
"I argue simply for the entertainment."
Agreed, it gives me something to do since I'm not tired enough to head to bed.
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Ynisfre
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Amendial posted:
Peyton Manning wasn't signed at the age of 39 by a team to lead them to the playoffs. Nor was Dan Marino, or any of the other greats you are talking about. Its not that hard to see, they did not sign him to have one great year under him and then be up the creek without a paddle. You sign a guy who is likely to retire for one reason, to lead your team to the Superbowl.
This is ridiculously wrong. You're judging Brett Favre's year by a different standard simply because he was a free agent. In fact, to use your logic, if anything Favre signing at 39 and leaving the Vikings without a championship could be called an unsuccessful experiment, whereas a 15 year investment in Dan Marino without a ring would have to be viewed as a franchise killing disaster. You can't have it both ways. If Favre got Jackson off track, then Marino's meaningless numbers kept the Dolphins from drafting a real winner for a generation. It's stupidly reductive. No one player makes a franchise. Favre gave them a better opportunity to win this year according to everybody. He has shown that, win or lose this week, he has given them a chance to win a championship. Saying he won't get it done does not make you Kreskin, because there are probably 6 teams that could still win it. Nothing is set in stone... all you can ask is that, if you have a shot to make a run, your organization does everything it can to give you the best opportunity possible. If they didn't have Adrian Peterson, et al, if this was a different team, then yeah, maybe you don't risk delaying your young QB's development for a long shot at a title. But by all accounts this year the one thing the Vikings were missing was a franchise QB. They made a bet that Favre was more likely to be that guy for them this year than Jackson would have been. Obviously we'll never know for sure how Tarvaris would have played this year, but assuming Minnesota flames out, as I said earlier, if Jackson comes back next year with a team and proves himself to be a pro bowler, then you can say I told you so. But to say it was a failure just because they don't win is to imply it was a foregone conclusion that they wouldn't win, and that's just not accurate.
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Amendial
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Your right on one thing: only time will tell. Right now nothing can be proven. I could careless how a QB does up until December. I care about December on. Farve had a rough December, not a horrible one but it was a rough one. In my eyes the Farve move is a bust if they do not make the Super Bowl. You don't sign an old vet like that to do anything less, and especially a guy who is 39 going on 49. I have no doubt Tavaris could have led them to the divisional round. If Farve wants me to shut up, its time for him to put up. A loss this weekend will end his season in failure.
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Liquid741
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Amendial, the Vikes picked up Farve for one thing the BEST chance at getting to the Super Bowl. they knew the best chance that they had was Farve not Jackson. if they thought differently then you would have seen Jackson behind center and not Farve.
regardless of how the regular season started and ended for the Vikes its all new beginning this weekend. this is what the picked him up for and i can bet they have more confidence in Farve then Jackson leading into this weekend.
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Amendial
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I understand your point, they feel he gives them the best chance to win. What I am trying to say is that regardless of that if he doesn't win it is a failure. There can be no moral victory in this case, unless of course he returns next season and plays at a high level. Most teams have the season they Vikings have, return all their key players and can build off that; if Farve retires than the Vikings will not have that luxury, they will be back to where they began the season. That is why it will be a failure if he doesnt get them somewhere in this post-season. Like I said we will see in the next couple of weeks what will happened; sugar coat it if you want but the fact is this: a loss this weekend is a failure for the Vikings.
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Everyone's goal is to win. Just because a quarterback is signed via free agency doesn't mean the decision is more about winning, or more contingent upon wins to be considered a success.
The Colts pay Peyton Manning as much as Brett Favre, so if they don't win this year was that a failed investment too? The Cards did the exact same thing with Warner- signed an old guy to a short term deal... the only difference is he had been there before. So if they don't the Super Bowl should they say "aw crap, that was a mistake, we should have played Leinart or drafted a younger guy."
You don't seem to be answering this point. Your argument is inconsistent. When you sign a talented player you are signing them because they give you the opportunity to win... not because they give you any sort of a guarantee. The failure in management would be passing up the opportunity to win, i.e. staying with the status quo.
In the case of the Packers, Rodgers has shown without a doubt, even though they didn't win a playoff game yet, that they made the right decision. Even if Favre wins the Super Bowl, Rodgers is obviously as good or close to as good as Favre is right now, and he is much younger. If Jackson is driven off, does what Rodgers is doing in subsequent years with a different team, and Favre DOESN'T win the Super Bowl this year, that is the ONLY scenario in which you can say the Vikings were wrong. To say they made a mistake if they don;t win it all this year is like saying 31 teams shouldn't have even bothered to field a team this year because they didn't win. It's a fallacious, reductive argument to try and prove a point you can;t possible prove.
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Amendial
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I understand that, but you have to understand also that you can not prove the other side of the coin unless Brett Farve does in fact win the Superbowl. If the Vikings do win the Superbowl then you can say I am wrong and be right. If they don't though we are at a stand still. You can not say that Tavaris would not have led them to the Super Bowl and been the better quarterback down the road until several years have passed. I know all this, I have known for a long time that this is simply and arguement that neither side can win because we are specualating on events that are going to take years to unfold. Will be fun to look back on this in a couple of years though and see what is going on.
As far as the Farve signing goes I consider it a failure if he loses this weekend. Plain and simple you don't sign a quarterback to as big of a contract for ONE season just to have a good regular season and be one and done in the playoffs. Your Peyton Manning arguments do not apply, not only has he won a ring for his team, but he is their guy for probally 4-5 years to come. That is the big difference with Farve in Minnesota and Manning in Indiancrapolis. Manning won Indy a ring and will be there for awhile. Farve was brought in to get Minny a ring. But that is just how I view it and will continue to view it for years to come. You are mistaken if you think I am trying to prove myself right, because I know I can not right now. I can not be proven wrong right now either though, unless Farve manages to win it all this year.
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The only speculation is on your part. You're speculating that Jackson will become a good quarterback. We're not speculating. Favre is playing at an all pro level right now. He gives them a shot at the title right now. If you're so literal that you think he has to win to make it worth it, then you have to be consistent with your logic. You have to say drafting Dan Marino was a bad move. You (likely) have to say that the Cardinals should have played Matt Leinart and saved their money on Warner. Do you think those things?
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^ Exactly. And I really doubt he does feel that way. You guys have basically been posting the exact same thing back and forth at each other-- yet no matter how many times Amendial says "I see your point..." he still goes on to list off his poorly speculated ideas that Tarvaris will someday be a great quarterback.
I'm not tryin to offend anyone here (although the above paragraph makes me sound like I'm just tryin to be a dick to Amendial) Just tryin' to get things clear.
I think Amendial wants to see Brett Favre fail sooo badly because he was against The Favre-Vikings move from the beginning (or after the three weeks of Brett Favre speculation that was running on every single sports channel ever) but I'm sorry dude, the Vikings made the right call on getting Favre this season. They're playing waaaay better than they were last year- and Ynisfre is right, Favre is giving the Vikings a much better chance to win than Tarvaris would have.. Even if they do lose tomorrow I still think it was the right call.
Because their chance of winning the superbowl this year w/ #4 is significantly higher than their chance to win it with #.. 7?
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I regret making the same point over and over... but I am trying to actually get the guy to address it. Sorry.
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You are bring up guys who have brought DECADES of success to single teams, not just 1 season. That is the point I am trying to make, this is a ONE season deal. In Warner's case he has brought SEVERAL years of relevence to the Cardinals and a trip to the Superbowl for a team that hadn't even dreamed of going to the Superbowl I would call that success. Had Farve been planning to play for the Vikings for three to four years I would say this was a successful season. The point I am making is the Vikings are not going to be successful if they lose this weekend and then lose Farve to retirement. At that point they wasted an entire season for nothing. How can that be considered a success? An NFC championship would be an acceptable consolation prize, but nothing less. If Farve does come back next year then I will yeild the point that he was successful this year. But if he doesnt comeback then this thing accomplished nothing. Oh woohoo we gave it out best shot and didnt get it done; now we are team that is a year older and worse - according to you guys because Farve makes them better so without him they are worse than they currently are - than we were last year when we couldnt win it all! I am failing to see where there is any success in that.
Now lets say that they had played Tavaris this season and he put up decent numbers and led them to a playoff victory, that is something that would carry over to the next season and leave them in a good spot. That is my point. If Farve was more than a one possibly two year stop gap player it would be completely different.
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Also in Matt's case, they gave him a shot to be the man prior to last season, don't forget that he blew it; he was above Warner to start the preseason last year. He has had his chances and failed. Tavaris deserves a chances to prove he can be the man. That is all I am saying, I am not saying he is going to be a great quarterback for years to come, only that based on what he did to finish the year last year he deserved his chance.
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Here I go again, apologies to all:
Amendial posted:
You are bring up guys who have brought DECADES of success to single teams, not just 1 season.
Every quarterback we have brought up has either 1 or 0 championships. I thought you weren't interested in regular season success?
Bottom line is you're holding the guy to a different standard because he was signed to a one year contract. That makes no sense. You're actually arguing against yourself, because a guy who fails to get it done in a one off experiment actually brings his team down less than a guy who fails to get it done over the course of many years. You're being totally illogical and inconsistent in your arguments. The only leg you have to stanbd on is if Favre was brought in and it knocked a prospect off track, but there is no indication that it will knock Jackson off track, and there is almost less indication that he is even any kind of a prospect. You have no argument, just something you believe.
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Amendial
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I have said several times that it is my opinion that it is a failure, not that it was a fact. It is my opinion that if Farve goes one and done the experiment failed this season. I do not believe the Vikings can claim a moral victory considering Farve was supposed to be that last missing piece to get them to the Super bowl. That is part of the difference in the guys you are talking about, they were not signed by a team as the last missing piece to a championship. They were drafted and had a team built around them in most cases, but never got all the tools they needed. Supposedly all the Vikings were missing was a quarterback, they got their quarterback and if they fail to win then it was a failure. Marino wasnt drafted as the last missing piece to the Dolphins winning a championship. Leinart was not drafted as the last missing piece to the Cardinals winning a championship. Farve was signed as the last missing piece to a Vikings championship.
I would compare the Farve experiment to the Chiefs signing Montana back in the 90's. Sure he got them to an AFC championship game but in the end the whole thing was a failure; he failed to deliver the championship, and retired leaving them up the creek without a quarterback. Chiefs never did get that superbowl. Instead of spending those years developing a quarterback to take advantage of a great roster they put their faith in Montana. When the roster was where it needed to be they had no quarterback.
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Ynisfre
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Your reasoning is baffling. Once again, when analyzing your actual points, you end up arguing against yourself. You say it's a failure because he was signed as the last missing piece. That assumes if he hadn't have been the last missing piece, it would have been less of a failure. Only a team not anywhere near a championship would have no reason to pay extra for a veteran QB, whereas a team on the brink has every reason to.
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Amendial
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How does it go against my reasoning. He was signed as the missing piece to bring them a championship. If he fails to do so he fails to deliver on what he was brought in to do. That sounds like the definition of failure to me.
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Ynisfre
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So all the other players were brought in to do what? Make balloon animals?
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Amendial
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Yeah, they are the halftime entertainment.
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Alright Farve, you win, I was wrong you were the right guy for the job this year.
This board is going to be a whole lot less interesting now 
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If they end up losing in the second half we're not letting you take it back!
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Cowboys would have to make a field goal for that to happen. I rode this sinking ship as long as I could, but even I can not argue this point anymore. I have to jump on the lifeboat before it is too late.
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Liquid741
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[quote=Amendial]Alright Farve, you win, I was wrong you were the right guy for the job this year.
This board is going to be a whole lot less interesting now [/quote]
Bull$hit! this is one of my fav. boards...specially since i have the anti-fan in you Amendial. going to be fun least till the SB is over...then we shall go from there.
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Amendial
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No Farve ruined everything. I am going to take my ball and go home now!
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Boone-Eldar
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Not to rub it in, but yeah Childress is looking pretty smart right about now.
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Seriously?
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whoops!
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I will be the bigger man and admit, signing Farve was a great idea. I still stand behind my resoning that if they fail to win the Super bowl this season is a failure though.
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i heard that Jacksonville is looking to sign him after this season...
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I suppose we could do worse, like drafting Tebow.
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The best vandalism I ever saw was on a big pickup truck on the back window that said "It's not gay if it's with Tebow"
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I read Tebow is going to be front and center in a pro-life ad that will play during the Super Bowl. I knew he was going to be a good pro. Hell, he might end up being a Hall of Fame prosthelytizer.
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Amendial
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Well Tebow is gods second son come to save the American sports population. He offers us redemption, and salvation, he has already saved ESPN from having to report on meaningful issues.
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stevenonfire posted:
They'll still have him, he'll just be benched because they know he's worthless compared to Favre
Goodluck:p
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stevenonfire
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with what, exactly?
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Talk about poor playoff games. 1 TD with 2 Int's and a fumble for Farve. That is what Farve was brought in for? His last throw this season is an INT with the Vikings just on the edge of field goal range.
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Kinda Deja Vu circa Packers vs. Giants
Now the Vikings get to deal with the lovely drama of will he or wont he... :P
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stevenonfire
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yeah, and Tard-varis would have done sooo much better right?
Of course that's your argument. You seem to exempt yourself from basing arguments on facts, and instead just base them on whichever black QB looks the most cute in their uniform.
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^ Agree with Steven here (yes I lurk and have been following this)
Anyways if the Vikings hadn't contracted fumleitis the game would have been much different.
Yes Favre is part of the blame but not all of it. Plus that fumble at the end of the half was just as much AP's fault as it was Favre's. To think that Tavaris retard Jackson would have even done what Favre has done for the Vikings this season is laughable. I don't even think the Vikings would have made the Playoffs with him under center. Favre, unlike Tavaris, made his team believe that they could win the Superbowl. He essentially inspired confidence that Tavaris couldn't because Tavaris hasn't shown the ability to lead his team.
So Ammendial you need to stop speaking out of your hater ass and snap back into the real world, the Vikings would have not been where they are without Favre.
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Amendial
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And my point all year is based off of that fact. Now they are right back to being a nobody, playing a first place schedule next year, and they got NOTHING out of it for this season. They have a playoff victory and a division title to show for it, and I do think Tavaris could have gotten that for them. It's funny that you guys are calling me a racist even though I have not metioned race once. It is you guys that are making this into a matter of race, I could careless what the color of anyone's skin is. The Vikings failed, Farve will retire and now they are just another average team. That sounds like a great season to me! Now they have to decide what to do for next year, go with Tavaris or don't go with him. Say they go with him and he fails, they will be a season behind getting a new quarterback. That is why I thought the Farve deal was a bad one, it gave them a better chance to win today, but a worse chance to win tomorrow. They failed today, and things don't look to good for tomorrow. They gambled everything on this season and lost.
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Amendial posted:
Talk about poor playoff games. 1 TD with 2 Int's and a fumble for Farve. That is what Farve was brought in for? His last throw this season is an INT with the Vikings just on the edge of field goal range.
Wow, lol. Didn't you say signing him was a good idea a few posts ago? Yeah the season is a failure. Only one team can win it all. Failure is the norm.
By the way, the fumble was Peterson's fault. It was just attributed to Favre because Peterson never got possession of the ball.
Yeah he threw some INTs, but he played a pretty good game up until that last play. The Vikings playcalling on first and second down were terrible too, though. As much as you can say he blew it in the end, no way they would have been there in the first place without him... and after the beating he took all game I get why he didn't run it, even though it was a terrible, easily avoidable choice.
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I'm going to have to say you are delusional to think that the Vikings would be where they are with Tavaris Jackson. So I'm going to point out that if Brett Favre does in fact not return (we will not really know until about June) then the Vikings can take away from this Season that they are good enough to compete with any team in the league so long as they have a good QB throwing the ball. This would have never have happened if Tavaris Jackson was QB, the Vikings wouldn't have played to their potential and wouldn't have realized their talent.
At least Favre has given hope to the rest of the team by giving them confidence and improving their WR core, especially Sydney Rice.
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Amendial
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I am not disagreeing that having Farve this year was not the best move. It was a swing for the fence though, and they missed. Knowing they can complete with a quarterback means nothing if they don't have a quarterback. The best way to get a quarterback is to draft one, good luck with that. Let's say they go with Tavaris next season, he bust out like you guys a so confident he will. Now its the next off season, and they still have no quarterback. They entire team is two years older now and they still have no legitimate chance to winning a title. Now they draft a quarterback. Well if you get lucky you might get a Sanchez who can get you somewhere, but no rookie QB has ever won the Superbowl. Now were into the third year, everyone is three seasons older. Windows of opertunity do not stay open very long, its hard to say that the rest of the team will still be good when they do get the quarterback who can take them to the promised land. That is the point I am trying to make, with Farve it was an all or nothing move. They took from the future and gave to the present, and now it has back fired. The Dallas game proved that Farve gave the Vikings the best chance to win it all this year. The Saints beat them and now they have nothing to show for it execept for a division title and a single playoff victory.
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haha who in their right mind would waste another year on Tarvaris? If Favre doesnt come back they'll get someone else. They got it
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Amendial
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Maybe they can talk Elway out of retirement next. Perhaps Marino will consider a one season comeback.
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Amendial posted:
Maybe they can talk Elway out of retirement next. Perhaps Marino will consider a one season comeback.
Jim Kelly was always the toughest of that group... I would go with him.
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Good looking out, I didn't even think of him. Maybe Aikman or Montana will come out of retirement. Why worry about getting a young quarterback for the future when we bring retired ones in to lead us.
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I think you two are confusing comedy for wasting of your fellow man's time.
Sure, Favre retired a couple times, but he never even took a year off. And even though you'll never admit it, having him there was huge for the team. (i know I know, Tardvaris this, Tardvaris that.. theyre now three years behind finding a good QB (I lose track of your crackpot speculations.. but dont feel the need to restate the ones I missed as it'll be the 45th time they appear ITT(in this thread)))
And hey.. since you wont listen to me, or any of the other posters who have been trying to beat you down with logic throughout this entire thread, maybe Percy Harvins words will get through to you (unlikely)
"I know everybody on this offense took something from him. Whether he comes back or not, he's taught this team so much. The strides that this offense took I think a lot of the credit goes to No. 4. I felt bad that we couldn't go out with him on top this year. I just wanted to tell him thank you."
I hope youre happy sitting there in your smog of smug amendial, I truly do. Actually, I dont. I hope you choke on your smog and die.
k late
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Amendial
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Oh is that supposed to make me teary eyed? If they wanted a coach they could have just hired him as a coach. He wasn't paid 12 million to coach the team, he was paid 12 million to win a superbowl. He failed.
Take the victory I offered, for this year alone, Farve was the better quarterback. He did take them to a level that Tavaris could not have. In the end it was all for naught though, he threw an INT that cost them the Superbowl. Bring up all the fumbles if you wish, the fact still remains, they were in field goal range and Farve gave the game away. He failed to do what he was brought in todo, just like we all knew he would.
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Ynisfre
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Amendial posted:
I am not disagreeing that having Farve this year was not the best move. It was a swing for the fence though, and they missed. Knowing they can complete with a quarterback means nothing if they don't have a quarterback. The best way to get a quarterback is to draft one, good luck with that. Let's say they go with Tavaris next season, he bust out like you guys a so confident he will. Now its the next off season, and they still have no quarterback. They entire team is two years older now and they still have no legitimate chance to winning a title.
Wow, now the Favre signing is warping time. In what universe does a one year detour on a veteran QB cost a team two years? At worst Tavaris will be one year behind schedule, or they draft a QB from a class that is at least as deep as last year's.
As for the Favre pick, it's predictable that you'd be killing him for that, but it was not nearly as bad as people like you are making it out to be. When they lined up on first and ten at the Saints 33, the Vikings called two consecutive runs into the line for no yards. Then they called a time out and got the substitutions wrong and sent 12 men into the huddle. Now, the very fact that they had so much confusion on third down meant they weren't comfortable kicking the field goal from 50 yards. They wanted to get closer. They send Brett out to get more yards, call a designed roll out... he has been beat up all game, his ankle is heavily taped and hurt, and everyone expects him to scramble when there were two Saints linebackers seven yards downfield just waiting to tee off on him. If he wants to get killed again maybe he gets back to the original line of scrimmage, and he'd have to sacrifice his body to do that. Keep in mind the coaches were not satisfied with a field goal from the original line of scrimmage, which is why they didn't just call another run into the line. So what does Brett do? He tries to force a throw. It was a mistake. He should have run two yards and slid or thrown it away, but he trusted his arm, which is the buggest reason they were there in the first place. He figured the odds were better he would complete the pass and put them in sure field goal range than try a low percentage fg from well over 50. So let's not act like he took sure points off the board. He tried to make something happen on third and long, pushed back further by a dumb substitutions gaffe that is rare even in preseason. Then in overtime the defense had every opportunity to stop the Saints... they just didn't. The bogus PI call didn't help, but the Saints deserved to win.
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Ynisfre
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Here's the play, by the way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPzhSm4GdTo
You can clearly see Favre wasn't getting much. he gets to the 35 at best.
However, it was obviously an error, and on that note listen to the end of the Minnesota play by play guy's call. The visuals are pretty good too, but just that last seven seconds is golden.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2Iw2YejS9A
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Amendial
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That was a funny clip by the Vikings radio guys. I will agree that he wasnt getting much further than the 35-33 yard line, but that sets up a 50-52 yard field goal. That is very makeable, Longwell has made a career out of doing that. The thing about it is, that regardless of rather he makes it or not, he atleast would have gotten the chance to attempt it. Farve denied him the chance to win an NFC Championship. It was makeable, and you do not throw an INT in that situation.
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Basur - 50 Jedi Shadow - Alduras - 30 Jedi Knight - Infinite Empire
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Amendial
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100 replies, this is the thread that just keeps on giving!
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Basur - 50 Jedi Shadow - Alduras - 30 Jedi Knight - Infinite Empire
Brienna - 50 Sith Sorc - The Crucible Pits
Kansas University Class of 2013!
2008 National Champions!!
2008 Orange Bowl Champions!!
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Pariahwulfen
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Amendial posted:
100 replies, this is the thread that just keeps on giving!
it's approaching critical mass!!!
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27 years of life, 20 years of gaming... In a world of chaos and insanity, only the madman is truly sane... "Never use a big word when a little filthy one will do." - Johnny Carson http://pariahwulfen.labrute.fr/
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