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Author Topic: Lifetank Interface Ideas
Crelic_MT 
Title: Poppy's Plaything
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 Subject: Lifetank Interface Ideas
I've heard from a good many people the "look" of Lifetank is a bit overwhelming with all the tabs and controls, and maybe somewhat "unfriendly".
I've wanted to rearrange this to make it easier to use, but I've been using it for so long everything looks normal to me and I'm lost as to what to try =)

So, give me some ideas of what you would like to see (or not see) on the LT interface. Keep in mind this is just the interface, not the actual functionality of the plugin right now. Though if you'd like to make feature requests (or request removal) you can @ our website grin

Please keep this civil and to the point too, not looking to start a fight but just input from LT users on how they'd like to see this part improved.

Ideas anyone?

-C

 

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Monolith_WE 
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 Subject: Lifetank Interface Ideas
I like it as is, but then again I have been using it forever as well..

 

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Lord_Anton 
Title: Wu Fez 4 Life!
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 Subject: Lifetank Interface Ideas
eh

I dont like how EL Tank was set up
yet, those ppl find it easy to them


I say leave it like it is

 

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Rebega_In_WE 
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 Subject: Lifetank Interface Ideas
Life Tank is fine. Its interface takes some getting used to, but once one does it is the best. applause

The only feature I hope for are multiple weapon buffing and a way for it to imperil those ninjas on sight and switch to acid.

after that its perfect

thx

 

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Crelic_MT 
Title: Poppy's Plaything
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 Subject: Lifetank Interface Ideas
Well, it does that perfect for mages already =) Now the switching weapons on queue is another story for melees. But the multiple weapon buffing isn't a big deal... hopefully we'll be able to start tinkering on that next.

But I'm still thinking about this. There are still a few things I'd like to remove since they aren't being used anymore or obsolete. All 3 of us have started back school again, but I'm hoping that won't slow us down too much.

Maybe I need to be asking the potential Lifetank users instead of veteran users what they'd like to see interface wise =P Like you guys have pointed out, unfriendly is vague.. it's a familiar face to us since we've used it for so long, it's hard to see what COULD change.

I have a few ideas I'll tinker with.

-C

 

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Digero 
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 Subject: Lifetank Interface Ideas
I'll pick a few aspects of the interface to complain about tongue (not in any particular order)

1) Moving the HUDs around.
- (a) Get rid of all the chat spam when doing it.
- (b) Actually move the HUDs as they're being dragged, so you can see where they're going.. and don't jump the top-left corner to the mouse's coords when you start dragging them.
- (c) Make them only draggable by the title, and dont eat the mouse messages (not sure if you actually do that currently).

2) The interface for setting up which salvages to loot is pretty hard/annoying to use. Have the list show all of the salvage types (don't make you add them 1-by-1) and maybe even make clicking the name show a description of what it does (ala ElTank). Then you can set the min workmanship by clicking on the number in the list (again like ElTank).

3) Move Loot to a top-level tab and move the "Filters" tabs directly under the Loot tab (getting rid of the "Filters" tab). You can get rid of the "Magicals" tab and add wands to the "Weapons" tab. It also seems like Exceptions should be on the same tab as Salvage, but I'm not sure if it'd fit.

4) Most people I've talked to didn't know what Y, I, V, and P meant on the Macro > Mobs tab. Even a [?] button next to them that will print out a description when you click it would work: "Y = yield, I = imperil, V = vuln, P = priority (higher priority number means attack first)".

5) Put the route editor directly in the Nav tab instead of a second window (not really a big problem).

Also a few non-UI aspects:
1) Share loot profiles between characters.
2) Seriously improve the buffing logic - it's rather brain-dead right now.
- (a) Number one priority should be that the character is actually buffed when LTx thinks he is. That means checking the buffs on the player and manually keeping track of item buffs.
- (b) Changes to the buff cycle length or continuous buffing shouldn't require you to restart the macro, and thus have to do a complete rebuff to make sure LTx doesn't let any of your buffs drop.

 

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Brutal-Force 
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 Subject: Lifetank Interface Ideas
Crelic, could you add a Component HUD that I can add stuff too, similar to Eltank's, its one of the only options I use from eltank, other than to buff.

Another great function is a Route Finder, Eltank's is severly outdated.

A HUD for listing killed creatures like in BS/2

A quest timer list.



 

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azraelthelost 
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 Subject: Lifetank Interface Ideas
Make the loot profile more detailed. Like, ignore major banes, unless its a double major, Ignore major spear, staff, IGNORE MAJOR TRADE AND TINKING items!

Pickup double minor wards only.


I know this isnt user interface related, my opinion on that topic? Dont change it, you are listening to the people who lack the patience to learn the interface, dont ruin it for everyone based on a couple of whiners.

Well hell, go ahead, maybe you will get a job at turbine...

 

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Maddy_ACEDL 
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 Subject: Lifetank Interface Ideas
I'll second Digero's comments on the non-UI improvements needed around buffing. That was the area that really struck me when I tried out LT. I can tell you how we track item buffs in Castaway, which there is probably a better way, we just use the first spell in the self buff array as our "timer", when it is time to buff that spell then we buff any item spells needed. It would probably be better to track the GUID of armor and weapons and when they were last buffed. Then during a timer cycle check to see if it is time to buff those again.

On the UI changes, I really don't have a comment as I never played it enough. I'll only say that simple is better. I kind of like Joel Spolsky's ideas on GUI design: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/uibook/fog0000000249.html

 

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ElgarL 
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 Subject: Lifetank Interface Ideas
Brutal-Force, Press update in ELNav to get an upto date locations database.

 

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Ashake 
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 Subject: Lifetank Interface Ideas
OK CR, based on my looking at it last night as I promised ...

As previously mentioned, the buffing routine is one of the worst I've ever seen. I know from our chat that the timers are majorly screwed up in the program, but there HAS to be a way to fix them so it recognizes current buffs without having to REbuff you (especially if you have more than half a cycle left on you - wasteful of comps AND time). This includes DEATHS. When you die, if you don't restart the darn thing - it does not RECOGNIZE you have died and its little timer just continues on its merry way.

I noticed last night it does not always recognize that you may have low health needing its attention when fighting. I died last night because it did not heal ME in favor of attacking a baddie. Yes, I could have overridden it, but I was testing it as promised and did not want to interfere with its function. I'm pleased to report my lifestone is where I left it last, and in good shape!! grin

The program does NOT "refill" your H/S/M after finishing off monsters. Now I'll be honest, this was something ElTank did that sometimes I found annoying, but I never had a problem going into battle with perhaps half health because of it. Not sure what in the programming controls this, but it really needs to be looked at.

I received "WARNING: [Engine] Busy Timeout - resetting combat flags" a couple times when testing it out. What the heck is that?

As far as the interface goes, I'd remove references to the items removed from the program, perhaps make a bit more user-friendly "help" for things (or just tad more explanation on tabs) and it would be ok. Or perhaps a secondary download could be provided for a "user manual"?

Don't bother with routing or quest timers - to be honest, Digero has those pretty much perfected in a couple of his plugs (I use them both all the time). Adding MORE stuff is only going to increase the lag factor involved. I've proven it for myself ... I can run several "smaller" plugs with less lag than I have with ElTank (sorry Elgar, but it is true) - but have learned to play with the additional lag. I don't auto loot stuff, so cannot advise there. It's BIGGEST issue, as I see it, is anything having to do with the buffing routines (which you already knew). I'd focus on that, and to be honest, it seems pretty solid other than that. I DO like the fact that when it IS buffing you, it is VERY easy to override the buffs to attack something going after you (it did not do that) simply by hitting the appropriate spell key to do so. I was kinda under the impression it would do that itself, when it didn't, a couple quick keystrokes killed the baddy, LT finished buffing me, and all was good. There seems to be a lot of stuff on the interface that isn't really needed ...

 

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Kriket18 
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 Subject: Lifetank Interface Ideas
I like Lt just the way it is, been using it so long. C'r and team does a good job. happy love

 

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Crelic_MT 
Title: Poppy's Plaything
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 Subject: Lifetank Interface Ideas
Brutal:
A Comp Hud wouldn't be a big deal I don't think. I'd honestly like to hold off on that idea until Decal finishes up their new DirectX/HUD related stuff since there may require a rewrite of that system when it happens. As far as quest timers and route finding, I can tell you know that won't happen. Digero's Quest Timer and GoArrow does a wonderful job of those already, and it would take away the main focus of Lifetank which is primarily combat. We're all about those other cool features, but it's too much work to reinvent something that someone else has already written and perfected... especially when there are other parts of the plugin still lacking we'd like to improve. Also, the BS2 corpse tracking may be a possibility. I would like to incorporate a part of the Spies plugin into Lifetank (minus a few of Spies specialized features) to help with tracking of such things.

The buffing system we are painfully aware of. None of us have really liked the methods that it uses to buff. Tracking buffs by timer is much more efficient and is something we've been casually looking in to lately. Tracking Item Buffs never crossed my mind, but now that it's mentioned, I'm not sure I can think of a good way to do that (besides assume they're on the same timer as your regular buffs as you suggested Maddy if I interpreted that correctly).

Also, the looting system we also know could use an overhaul. Each and every item goes through a metric ton of filters before it gets picked up, saved, salvaged, etc. We believe this is one reason looting tends to be slow. Although I don't believe we have an idea of where to start on it yet, it is something on the back burner that we'd like to update first.

As far as I can remember though, these are really the bigger parts of the plugin that could use an overhaul. Everything else for the most part is just tweaking (but correct me if I'm wrong =P )

Thanks for the input everyone. It's hard to keep a plugin on it's feet when you don't know what the users want... so this helps a good bit =)

-C

 

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Maddy_ACEDL 
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 Subject: Lifetank Interface Ideas
<< I'm not sure I can think of a good way to do that (besides assume they're on the same timer as your regular buffs as you suggested Maddy if I interpreted that correctly). >>

That is correct. Or as I also suggested you could have a timer that fires once a minute (or faster). You store the the item GUID and the length of time of the buff, this allows for different spell levels, augmentations, etc. Then every time your timer fires you deduct a minute from the time. If you save this data when you exit then you can track them when you log back in with that character. So would mean saving theGUID of the player too.

 

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Digero 
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 Subject: Lifetank Interface Ideas
Item buffs:
1) Have LTx watch for buffs being cast on an item owned by the player, whether the buffs are cast by LTx or by the player.
2) Calculate the duration of the buff based on the level of the spell cast and the spell duration augmentations on the player (unless they were cast by someone else, in which case assume no augs).
3) Keep track of when the spell will expire in terms of the character's age (You have played for 2 months, 7 days...), not the system clock.
4) When the player logs off, save the expiration time (not seconds remaining) for all items currently in the character's inventory. This will make it so the timers are still valid if the player then turns the plugin off, plays for a bit, then turns the plugin back on.

An alternative (I think this is how ElTank does it):
1-2) same.
3) Keep track of how many seconds are left on the spell.
4) When the player logs off, save the number of seconds remaining, as well as the character's age when he logged off.
5) When the player logs back on, only load the item buff timers if the character's current age is within some tolerance of his age when the data was saved (say 15 seconds).

 

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--Replex-- 
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 Subject: Lifetank Interface Ideas
Ashake: The "Busy Timeout" you are seeing is when the macro tries to do something, and that action silently fails (IE: No error message from the server.) or something happens that shouldnt be happening, like the player exiting combat mode while the bot is attempting to cast for example.

 

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Ashake 
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Replex, all the instances when I received that message were during active combat, not buffing. I was in a corner in 125 eaters, watching carefully to see what the program was doing. Although I had no packet loss or excessive lag (for me), it acted like it was momentarily freezing, tossed out that message, then resumed. Was not sure what it was, so figured I'd toss it out for clarification. Thanks - I'll keep an eye on it again when testing it, and see if I can figure out exactly what might be causing it (thinking it might be something not readily apparent as I'm on dialup).

One more thing I forgot to mention CR - that I mentioned when we chatted. Remove the "unfriendly player" stuff - and instead make it report on allegiance members in the vicinity - similar to El Tank. This is REALLY nice in a dungeon, you can see if there are fellow members within your allegiance and such.

It would also be nice if the plug remembered various profiles saved, and offer a choice to other characters you may have. It's a pain to have to go through every time a new character is set up and have to spend the time to re-setup the program for that particular character. Since I have a profile for Ashante (was doing the main test on her), would be nice to be able to select that for Belle, for example, rather than have to fuss with setting it up for Belle all over again.

 

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azraelthelost 
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If you change the buffing logic, please leave a legacy option, there are many spawns where the current buffing logic works better than an Eltank style buffing logic.

 

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Digero 
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Azrael, I assume you mean the "continuous buffing" option. The idea is not to get rid of it, just make it smarter wink

 

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yaroz_vn 
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 Subject: Lifetank Interface Ideas
I concur with C'R about adding in the quest timers and stuff.. Why turn LT into bloatware? Digero's Quest Timer is awesome, and I recommend it to everyone. wink And Go Arrow's not too shabby either. heh..

 

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Het-chu 
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Any possibilty of adding a "Buff Only" function similar to El Tank? I prefer to target/attack creatures manually, especially when counting Tukora's, but would like to continue to use the heal/revit/buff functions of the plugin.

I've seen some good suggestions from others, keep up the good work.

 

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Crelic_MT 
Title: Poppy's Plaything
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 Subject: Lifetank Interface Ideas
There is a "buff only" kind of thing in there, it's just not called that =) In the mage tab, there should be an option that says "Don't shoot war spells". It'll do everything else you have checked but that. So, it will keep you healed, keep your fellows healed, or even vuln/imp if they're checked, but no wars. =)

-C

 

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Het-chu 
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Cool thanks, I did see that actually and was wondering if it would function in that manner. How about for a melee/archer? Is it possible as well? I need to look around the tabs some more. happy

 

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RareBreed1 
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Ya Het, I think that option is also there for melee/archers.
I think if you decide to run combat you have to set the nav. to stay in one spot or the toon chases the target. That's one thing I haven't been able to get to work right yet, but it's also been about 5 months sense I played with Lt.

 

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