Lil-Blub
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Locked to prevent any drama - see the last post on this thread.
With the new release of Lifetank X coming out very shortly... A great question has risen.
Can in all current vnboard rules and legality can we post that there is a release or links to it? Or will they be moderated since they fall under admin detection which is against the AC code of conduct?
If so, is it not infact Decal itself including all Third Party plugins created against the code of conduct anyhow with Turbine?
I just won't have censorship here with Paraduck for one being a Moderator on these boards + a Lifetank X (etc)... plugin co-developer. No personal attack intended at paraduck, it was just an example.
Figured I needed to ask in public to make it certainly clear that it is infact not a CoC violation on these boards and if so, can we please lock each and every post made about Lifetank X releases by Xarin Xarid and SPK ever made since they infact also violate the VnBoards TOS?
Any fill in on this? Mods? Anyone?
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Lil-Blub
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"We recognize that some players (and former players) of Asheron's Call do not like that Turbine allows third-party utilities to be used with Asheron's Call; however, understand this board is about these utilities. This is NOT the place to discuss, criticize, or debate Turbine's policies, and is definitely not the place to rant. "
As such, I am asking for just one clarification question. I am not intending to start any problems here. Please advise.
Just clarify if I create a plugin with admin detection will it infact be deleted.
Will all previous Lifetank discussion threads where Admin detection was enabled on the plugin at the time...be locked as they also fall under the same rule?
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Drakier
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admin detection goes against Turbine's wishes, so I would say that's valid grounds for deletion.
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Ashake
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Lil-Blub ... since you have made it abundantly clear that you could care LESS about the CoC of Asheron's Call by assisting others in breaking the CoC of a game YOU no longer play, why should you care if you fly in the face of the rules and regulations of the VN Boards?
edit: Evidently Turbine DOES care about the admin detection features that LT used to have, or they'd not have talked to the current authors about its removal. If you are willing to provide "cheating" in a GAME to others, what does that tell your children about your values? Just something to ponder for a moment ...
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ElgarL
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Admin detection goes againt Turbines wishes, but not against their rules, so it's a subject for the Board managers to discuss.
Morality would tend to dictate that you don't revive the plugin in the form that you are considering.
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azraelthelost
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Elgar has been a long standing supporter of morality and AC.
The release of his plugin pretty much sunk the game.
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Faradn
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Still talking?
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unbelievr
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no big deal if its allowed here or not, once its online, a few post to guild websites and it will spread like wildfire.
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Lil-Blub
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Still I asked the mods and admins. No responses yet. Odd being over 12 hours old. I imagined they have viewed these forums at least once.
Anyhow, As said.. Everything that decal represents is against the code of conduct with Turbine from what I remember. So censoring my particular plugin is exactly that. Censorship.
It was not a problem up until I decided to have a new version released. Again, I am not doing all the work here.
Lifetank Xi's team was allowed to post releases and such up until the "decision" to remove admin detection was made.
Again that being said...
Is it a fact that since it was against the TOS/COC with Turbine and the Vnboards... that those posts including HISTORY of posts could be infact locked?
Mods/Admins please advise.
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Maddy_ACEDL
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<< As said.. Everything that decal represents is against the code of conduct with Turbine from what I remember. >>
Need to work on your memory then.
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MT_Gouru
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Lil-Blub posted:
Anyhow, As said.. Everything that decal represents is against the code of conduct with Turbine from what I remember. So censoring my particular plugin is exactly that. Censorship.
Code of Conduct states "Use of unauthorized third-party software or macros with the Software may be prohibited in the sole discretion of Turbine. " and the point is that Decal has NOT been prohibited by Turbine. They DO prohibit UCM, and it has been clarified a couple of times that attended means watching the screen, not 'listening for an alarm'.
When ToD first came out, they accidentally posted the AC2 CoC as the ToD CoC, and that one DID specifically prohibit ALL third-party software. When questioned, Turbine realized their mistake and reinstated the original CoC.
Turbine has made it VERY clear that they are against Admin Alarms, even if it is not currently specifically called out in CoC. They have done this both with attempts in the past to break them, and by requesting that they be removed from current macro software. Frelorn's most recent statement about 'attending' made it clear that they define it as at the keyboard, watching the screen.
As to the term, Censorship. Censorship is not illegal, nor even immoral. Censorship is required part of polite society, especially given the tendency of certain asocial types that believe that they should be allowed to say anything they want, anywhere they want, anytime they want.
Censorship on private boards such as ACVault is not only a good thing, it is a legal responsibility, so trying to play the 'censorship' card really doesn't accomplish much of anything at all.
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Lil-Blub
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As per YOUR opinion and insight. 
See it's such a fine line. It was never moderated before. That is my point. Why should it all the sudden now? Only because you want being a decal dev want it quiet since it does not do what you intend to do or follow your opinions?
See that's actually censorship in the wrong context.
POINT IS... once again....
Never a problem BEFORE PARADUCKS POST having admin dectection in the plugin / decal... now it's a removed feature of "1 type of lifetank"...
You call it a rule now. And say it should infact be enforced.
Is it because I didn't personally get your approval and kiss your arse?
Or is it because your afraid of the outcome and you have NO control over it happening?
Xarin Xarid made it and updated with admin detection in it...
SPK did it....
Paraduck and C'relic Did it also....
Why am I different?
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Yula_the_Mighty
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Lil-Blub posted:
Still I asked the mods and admins. No responses yet. Odd being over 12 hours old. I imagined they have viewed these forums at least once.
Anyhow, As said.. Everything that decal represents is against the code of conduct with Turbine from what I remember. So censoring my particular plugin is exactly that. Censorship.
It was not a problem up until I decided to have a new version released. Again, I am not doing all the work here.
Lifetank Xi's team was allowed to post releases and such up until the "decision" to remove admin detection was made.
Again that being said...
Is it a fact that since it was against the TOS/COC with Turbine and the Vnboards... that those posts including HISTORY of posts could be infact locked?
Mods/Admins please advise.
We do not have full coverage from the moderators. So it not surprising you have not gotten response, especially on a holiday weekend.
Your best bet is to contact the local moderator:
Kestrina
or the following admins
Kestrel
-Mithan-
Sheyla
-Southern-
You can use the modlist to find a member of the moderator team that is currently online for help. I wish I could answer your question. But I can not. Like you, I refer thorny issues like this to the moderators.
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Lil-Blub
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I got a "paused" respone in pm's from a mod...
I am also asking the public to a certain extent also.
See it's never been a problem before. Everyone was fine until someone got there panties in a bunch about this.
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MT_Gouru
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Not been a problem before? Admin alarms have been a contentious issue here for sometime, and with Turbines recent actions against Admin Alarms, and Frelorns clarification of 'attended play', then it becomes even more apparent of Turbines position on Admin Alarms.
Times change, deal with it.
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Lil-Blub
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Oh I am.
No worries there.
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Yula_the_Mighty
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Based on what I've read here, when Turbine reopens I will spend some time talking to Frelorn to try to figure what Turbine's position currently is and what Turbine wants from ACVault.
It has always been IGN policy that the various vaults comply with any reasonable request or rule made by a game publisher. Hopefully, the moderation team is up to date because I certainly am not.
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Drakier
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Xeon_Xarid
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Migy_AC
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To avoid confusion, you may want to dub your planned release Lifetank Fu. The Fu menaing - For Unnatended.
Though the sentiment also should bleed through. 
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Kestrina
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This situation is currently being handled by the Managers of this board. When they make their decision, we'll let you know. Please give them some time to make an appropriate decision.
Thanks!
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kinslayer271
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Lil-Blub this is great that your going to update Lifetank! But, knowing it would piss people off might not be a way to gain popularly to your own updated version. My best advice would to keep it D/L and not make a big deal about it. Admin alarm has helped me not miss Envoy tests WHILE i was in front of my computer playing. Thx for putting in the effort.
-Kgb-
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unbelievr
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Not looking to gain friends or popularity.
Only giving people a choice of what to use.
We dont believe that people should be told
what to use,or forced to use something they
dont want, we are not Microsoft.
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Lil-Blub
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At your keyboard or taking a "bathroom break"... Cooking food, answering the phone and walking away.... EVEN SLEEPING....
Is infact NOT unattended.
Scenario/Example:
1. Alarm clock to wake you up. You get up as needed. But it requires the alarm clock to make sure it's accomplished. (Attended)
2. No Alarm Clock to wake you up. You get up late and lose your job. Your fault. (Unattended)
3. No need for an alarm clock, you wake up on your own just fine. (Fully Attended.)
Turbine defines you must be "at" your keyboard for admin alarms. (I know this.)
Question to that phrase is of course something Turbine should take up with the Keyboard Police, because it's infact Silly. How are they even going to know your there or not if you have an alarm on your plugin that alerts you to give you 30 seconds to get to your keyboard. If your withing 30 seconds of your keyboard, your infact "attending" it.
Obviously if your not, and 30 seconds passes, you get banned.
So now think about it... I am releasing a plugin that will have admin detection. It does not STATE in the TOS/COC/EULA that you MUST not have an admin alarm detection in place.
Forum posts are one thing, it DOES NOT make it official. What if I don't read those forums? Just because someone said it doesn't make it right and correct and have it stick legally.
They have infact legally change the rules to state it in the Eula/CoC/Tos.
It's alot like speeding. You know it says go 65 on the freeway, but instead you do 72-78 miles per hour. The rule states you can be ticketed and or fined for this action.
What if you have a radar dectector and catch the cop before he catches you?
I will leave you with that.
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-Zalliun-
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Geez shut up allready.
The wording and spirit of the rules are simple.
If you use a admin alarm to prevent a ban its cheating , not easy to prove but against their wished.
If you used less time bitching here and more time reading a VB book you would actually have anything that looked like a admin alarm.
But since your mom didnt pay you allovance so you can could keep a website up you need to bitch and moan here all the time.
Make a site , keep development there , if you against all odds ever get anything done people can see it on your site.
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unbelievr
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Agreed.
There are private plugins out there that are much worse then Lifetank,
Admin detection is NOT a very big deal, as much as some people would prefer it
to be.
Some wish it to be taken out, some wish it to stay in, and some dont care either way.
Dont let personal opinions effect what is right or wrong.
You cannot say Admin detection in Lifetank is wrong, if you really felt that way,
it would have been removed long ago. You may not like it, but you cant call it wrong.
If i'm sitting in front of computer, watching tv, dvd, or even ps2, i am not paying
as much attention to ac. If i miss a tell, i get banned? nah, sound a alarm, and i will
happily talk to the admins.
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Lil-Blub
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Quote:
Date Posted: 1:40pm Subject: RE: Lifetank Xr, Admin Detection, And YOU!
Geez shut up allready.
The wording and spirit of the rules are simple.
If you use a admin alarm to prevent a ban its cheating , not easy to prove but against their wished.
If you used less time bitching here and more time reading a VB book you would actually have anything that looked like a admin alarm.
But since your mom didnt pay you allovance so you can could keep a website up you need to bitch and moan here all the time.
Make a site , keep development there , if you against all odds ever get anything done people can see it on your site.
End Quote:
As per your own words... I'm not the one who's bishing here. Maybe if you spent less time judging people and more time being a human, You would'nt be playing Asheron's Call 1 and care so much about your little world crashing down because it's ok to own a radar dectector in AC1.
The websites are up bud. Just not public.(Well they are now.) Best part is, it's all from support of those who support this project. My mommy (Myself before) is not paying for it. 
Your ignorance is strong young Jedi. 
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unbelievr
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Agreed.
There are private plugins out there that are much worse then Lifetank,
Admin detection is NOT a very big deal, as much as some people would prefer it
to be.
Some wish it to be taken out, some wish it to stay in, and some dont care either way.
Dont let personal opinions effect what is right or wrong.
You cannot say Admin detection in Lifetank is wrong, if you really felt that way,
it would have been removed long ago. You may not like it, but you cant call it wrong.
If i'm sitting in front of computer, watching tv, dvd, or even ps2, i am not paying
as much attention to ac. If i miss a tell, i get banned? nah, sound a alarm, and i will
happily talk to the admins.
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Tiviee
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We do not know that Turbine has come out and ask for these removed becuase all we have are board posters words. Let Turbine make an official statement. I am still surprised how the decision makers are keeping silent and will not publicly admit their role in such a decision.
It is a much bigger issue tan stupid admin alert: Someone or some group are deciding what can and what cannot be allowed. We have the moral majority running our game for us and they didn't even create the game. I do not think we can just believe board posters on their word what happened and who decided to make it happen - as it is just too important a decision. Next time any other plugin will be stripped of some function according to CoC. It is all interpretation and someone is going to decide something else is not to their liking soon.
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Lil-Blub
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No worries if it is locked, I have a solution to this also. It's not gonna be hard. I got friends at google.
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Drakier
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"What if you have a radar dectector and catch the cop before he catches you?"
That's EXACTLY what an Admin Alarm is... a Radar Detector..
and in fact, Radar Detectors are illegal in many many states simply for that reason.. because they allow people to break the law without getting caught. Doesn't make it right.
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Lil-Blub
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And i'm sure you NEVER broken a law or tried to avoid getting into trouble in your ENTIRE life.
Doesn't make you right either.
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Drakier
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I never said that. Everyone makes mistakes.. everyone is human. The difference between us is that I've never INTENTIONALLY broken a law or rule.
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unbelievr
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you never intentionally, or knowingly sped?
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Lil-Blub
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Yah I am laughing too.
OooooooHHHHH....NOT me! NEVER!
Give up on your fight seriously. You just put yourself in a box.
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Kestrina
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This topic is still under discussion with the VN Board Managers. I am now locking this post until a decision is made either way. Please do NOT repost this topic, or it will be removed.
Until a decision is reached, keep all Lifetank discussions regarding admin alarms off the Utilities Board. I will not moderate the discussion of an admin alarm alone, but the drama that ensues because of that discussion
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