--Replex--
Posts:
????
Registered:
????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
For those of you that remember the plugin Sixth Sense, Spies will be very familiar to you. It has object detection functionality just like it, among other features implemented to ease the pain of daily AC life.
You can find out more about the plugin here:
http://lifetank.fissionweb.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=25
You can download the plugin here:
http://lifetank.fissionweb.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=67
Keep in mind this is beta software!
-Replex
-----signature-----
|
|
Link to this post
|
QueZart
Posts:
????
Registered:
????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
|
hhmm Might have to check it out
-----signature-----
|
|
Link to this post
|
immortalbob
Title: AC Vault Staff
I am batman!
Posts:
11,887
Registered:
Feb 24, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 11,708
User ID: 649,929
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
|
^
-----signature-----
ImmortalBob, Axer Extraordinaire
+Turbine Sappho tells you, "I am starting to think you are immortal"
|
|
Link to this post
|
Enoch_VN
Posts:
????
Registered:
????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
|
(no message)
-----signature-----
|
|
Link to this post
|
Maddy_ACEDL
Posts:
12,311
Registered:
Feb 23, '00
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 11,836
User ID: 12,026
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
Just an observation on my part, which I love doing:
Turbine has placed in code to attempt to defeat the detection of admins by plugins, why would an author of a legimate plugin attempt to work around knowing that Turbine doesn't want people to auto-detect admins?
-----signature-----
|
|
Link to this post
|
azraelthelost
Posts:
12,882
Registered:
May 22, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 12,614
User ID: 926,268
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
|
Probably because he doesnt give a darn about that part of the CoC or the opinions of the Hypocritical Ac Dev community.
-----signature-----
None of us know everything, therefore we are all ignorant.
|
|
Link to this post
|
immortalbob
Title: AC Vault Staff
I am batman!
Posts:
11,887
Registered:
Feb 24, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 11,708
User ID: 649,929
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
maddy, it is admin detection, not a ucm aid, it wont respond for you during a ucm test or anything like that, it is more focused towards live events, and whatnot....finding the admin controlled creature in a big spawn isnt easy sometimes 
-----signature-----
ImmortalBob, Axer Extraordinaire
+Turbine Sappho tells you, "I am starting to think you are immortal"
|
|
Link to this post
|
Jothony
Posts:
1,111
Registered:
Sep 2, '03
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 1,102
User ID: 835,114
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
Immortalbob, if you truly believe that line about the purpose of "admin alert", then could I please try on your best suit of majors, just to see how it helps my stats? I promise I'll give it right back. 
-----signature-----
AC - Jothony of Eastham, Chen Jo, Jothany
Vanguard - Jikar
All Retired
|
|
Link to this post
|
Maddy_ACEDL
Posts:
12,311
Registered:
Feb 23, '00
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 11,836
User ID: 12,026
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
<< Probably because he doesnt give a darn about that part of the CoC or the opinions of the Hypocritical Ac Dev community. >>
Part one is probably true,, part two is probably off.
-----signature-----
|
|
Link to this post
|
--Replex--
Posts:
????
Registered:
????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
|
The Admin Detection feature was more for detection admins during live events, such as Count Dardante/The Black Knight or Adso. Why would I really care to recreate a system that macro programs already have anyways, not really worth arguing about.
-----signature-----
|
|
Link to this post
|
Drakier
Posts:
????
Registered:
????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
Hypocritical AC Dev Community?
I hope by that comment you are referring to the hypocritical PLUGIN devs who go against the Decal Code of Ethics and CoC while claiming they support the game and Turbine's decisions.... Because if you're talking about the Decal Devs, then you're just throwing around baseless claims because you are mad that one or more of the Decal Devs kicked you out of #ACDev for something you did which violated the rules (possibly dealing specifically with CoC or DCoE violations).
-----signature-----
|
|
Link to this post
|
Ftuoil_XelRasH
Posts:
10,194
Registered:
Feb 9, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 9,713
User ID: 67,385
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
|
Kettle Calling the Pot Black
-----signature-----
Killing Farmers since 1999! http://ac.circleofseven.com
|
|
Link to this post
|
vellus
Posts:
????
Registered:
????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
|
Yet Maddy is suspiciously keeping her 2 cents from the thread announcing the release of LifeTank, whihc has been mor UCM related than ElTank? And the Devs do not want people UCM'ing either.....
-----signature-----
|
|
Link to this post
|
Maddy_ACEDL
Posts:
12,311
Registered:
Feb 23, '00
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 11,836
User ID: 12,026
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
<< Yet Maddy is suspiciously keeping her 2 cents from the thread announcing the release of LifeTank, whihc has been mor UCM related than ElTank? And the Devs do not want people UCM'ing either >>
I read the thread, I don't use Lifetank and saw nothing in the thread which I needed to comment upon. The last time I discussed LT it had nothing to do with UCM'ing. Even in this thread I did not bringup the topic of UCM'ing.
And I have made my comments about LT and El Tank in the past around the areas of UCM'ing, I don't see a need to repost them at every chance that present themselves to me.
-----signature-----
|
|
Link to this post
|
immortalbob
Title: AC Vault Staff
I am batman!
Posts:
11,887
Registered:
Feb 24, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 11,708
User ID: 649,929
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
Jothony posted:
Immortalbob, if you truly believe that line about the purpose of "admin alert", then could I please try on your best suit of majors, just to see how it helps my stats? I promise I'll give it right back.
What replex said already really answers this, but just to be redundant, and add +1 to my postcount....
Ucm related plugins already have admin alarms, this is mainly meant of admin detection. though, they are very similiar, someone who is UCMing/ACMing with lifetank for instance, already has an admin alarm. Running spies just to detect admins while UCMing, would just be......redundant.
-----signature-----
ImmortalBob, Axer Extraordinaire
+Turbine Sappho tells you, "I am starting to think you are immortal"
|
|
Link to this post
|
vellus
Posts:
????
Registered:
????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
Man o man Maddy, looking at your quote of me, I wish there was some sort of spell check done before I hit the post button!!
All I am saying is that all the "usual" UCM critics and "moral authorities" for AC and Decal have not commented or made a post in the latest lifetank release. Conspiracy theorists (Azrealthelost?) would look at it being Paraduck releasing it and would think maybe in the past they were attacks on the individual/authors and not the concept/plugin at all???
So either they gave up or were just on the soapbox in order to be in the spotlight.
Although I did not really like them, at least Brother Tempus, Aerlinthean (spelled right?), and a few others consistently hated everyone that made the game slightly easier, pyreals easier, etc....
But, as a wise person once said....Just an observation on my part, which I love doing
-----signature-----
|
|
Link to this post
|
Drakier
Posts:
????
Registered:
????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
|
just so it is clear.. I don't support Paraduck, Replex, or anyone else making UCM tools. I don't care who you are.. UCM tools are not condoned or supported by me (and many other Decal Devs). Just because I haven't made a stink about it yet doesn't mean that I'm somehow less annoyed at it.
-----signature-----
|
|
Link to this post
|
Striderlongshanks
Posts:
????
Registered:
????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
""The Admin Detection feature was more for detection admins during live events, such as Count Dardante/The Black Knight or Adso.""
So let me ask if its not for ucming and is only to alert "attending toons" to live events and such does it sound a "bell" or does it alert you by bringing up a "box" saying Count dardante or the Black Knight or whatever is online?
SL
-----signature-----
|
|
Link to this post
|
--Replex--
Posts:
????
Registered:
????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
|
lol give me a break, people already run Eltank or Lifetank for macroing and they both have alarms. I will repeat, there is no need for me to have added admin detection for those reasons. It doesn't detect text, it doesnt detect /tells, only the admin itself.
-----signature-----
|
|
Link to this post
|
Striderlongshanks
Posts:
????
Registered:
????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
so I'll ask again, does it sound a audio alarm so can get up from couch where watching a movie or whatever and come over to puter or is it a visual box that comes up like 6th sense would bring to front when it had a "hit"?
Sl
-----signature-----
|
|
Link to this post
|
immortalbob
Title: AC Vault Staff
I am batman!
Posts:
11,887
Registered:
Feb 24, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 11,708
User ID: 649,929
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
Striderlongshanks posted:
so I'll ask again, does it sound a audio alarm so can get up from couch where watching a movie or whatever and come over to puter or is it a visual box that comes up like 6th sense would bring to front when it had a "hit"?
Sl
both, and 6th sense sounded off when it found things also....
-----signature-----
ImmortalBob, Axer Extraordinaire
+Turbine Sappho tells you, "I am starting to think you are immortal"
|
|
Link to this post
|
AlissaFreewind
Posts:
????
Registered:
????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
|
Can the admin detect be turned off?
-----signature-----
|
|
Link to this post
|
Crelic_MT
Title: Poppy's Plaything
Posts:
8,820
Registered:
May 4, '03
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 8,666
User ID: 798,284
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
Good god, everyone complaining here is jumping on the "I hate UCM's even though I'm a closet macro'er" bandwagon.
Someone tell me, what is the difference between a smoke ALARM, and a smoke DETECTOR?
Alarm: It finds smoke and makes a loud noise
Detector: If finds smoke and tells you about it
Spies is NOT a UCM plugin or helper. It is in it's simplest form: an informational program. It's admin DETECTION is no different than you entering a term to search for a certain player so you can easy target and PK them, or a gold monster on Viss.
Also, to add, $10 says if I were to remove the admin detection and alarm features in Lifetank, these same people would PM me and bitch and beg for me not to, or re-add it. I'd bet my life on it.
So, if you wanna jump on the macro'ing hating bandwagon... go start a new thread here or on my boards... then sit back and see how much we really care. Everyone knows my stance on the subject and my reasonings for adopting LTx. So, flame away.
On a better note: Congrats on your release Replex, and thanks for also joining the LTxi dev-team.
-Cr
-----signature-----
Don't blink, Don't even blink
Blink and you're dead
They are fast, faster than you can believe
Don't turn your back, don't look away
and don't blink.
|
|
Link to this post
|
Drakier
Posts:
????
Registered:
????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
Crelic: not me.
I'm not a closet anything. I say what I mean, and I practice what I preach. I'm not a hypocrit, although that is one thing I'd agree with you on however is that there are FAR too many people who complain about something while secretly doing it themselves.. and to those hypocrits, they need to either come out of the closet, or change their actions.
-----signature-----
|
|
Link to this post
|
immortalbob
Title: AC Vault Staff
I am batman!
Posts:
11,887
Registered:
Feb 24, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 11,708
User ID: 649,929
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
AlissaFreewind posted:
Can the admin detect be turned off?
yes, uncheck the box
-----signature-----
ImmortalBob, Axer Extraordinaire
+Turbine Sappho tells you, "I am starting to think you are immortal"
|
|
Link to this post
|
Crelic_MT
Title: Poppy's Plaything
Posts:
8,820
Registered:
May 4, '03
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 8,666
User ID: 798,284
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
Draiker:
That's cool. I respect you, and everyone else who feel the same way to.
I don't UCM. I wanted the Lifetank project for my own enjoyment to see what I could be capable of, and I wanted to share with everyone else. I KNOW Unattended Combat Macroing is against Turbine's Code of Conduct, the ACT of it.. getting caught or otherwise doesn't make it RIGHT. But, it is also my believe that what you do with your paid subscription is none of my business, nor should I tell you what to do. So those who do get banned, well that is their own ignorance for breaking the rules. Just like anything in RL, when used correctly and following the rules you'll never be wrong and you have nothing to worry about.
Those who have nothing to hide shouldn't worry about a detection script, I don't.
-----signature-----
Don't blink, Don't even blink
Blink and you're dead
They are fast, faster than you can believe
Don't turn your back, don't look away
and don't blink.
|
|
Link to this post
|
Paraduck
Title: quantum mechanic
Posts:
88,652,030
Registered:
Feb 27, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 51,297
User ID: 70,706
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
I've been following this thread for a while, but aside from the misconceptions about the feature in spies, I'm surprised no one mentioned that admins show up as cyan dots on the radar. This plugin just extends the functionality -- in addition to the built-in (available without Decal) cyan dot, the admin is displayed in the plugin's detection list. Spies is not providing "extrasensory" functionality in terms of admin detection. I don't think Spies will detect admins that have @morph'd into monsters, either. (Unless they appear as a blue dot in the radar.)
Edit: Oh, and grats, Replex!
-----signature-----
We are like dwarfs sitting on the shoulders of giants. We see more and things that are more distant than they did,
not because our sight is superior or because we are taller than they, but because they raise us up and their
great stature adds to ours
|
|
Link to this post
|
robibla
Posts:
????
Registered:
????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
Very nice plugin btw, wish ppl would comment on the actual plugin rather than fight about stupid little things.
The only suggestion i have for the plugin is that the sound it plays when detecting an allegience member is not the same sound as a enemy PK. =D
Other than that, it's great!
-----signature-----
|
|
Link to this post
|
Monolith_WE
Posts:
1,466
Registered:
Nov 24, '04
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 1,456
User ID: 996,472
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
|
Very cool plugin from what I have tested with it so far. Thanks.
-----signature-----
(none)
|
|
Link to this post
|
Otto.Mo.Beale
Posts:
12,059
Registered:
May 22, '00
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 11,638
User ID: 25,768
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
|
gat cause i have to do a stupid diamond golem slaughter cause noone is selling writs.
-----signature-----
(none)
|
|
Link to this post
|
Maddy_ACEDL
Posts:
12,311
Registered:
Feb 23, '00
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 11,836
User ID: 12,026
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
<< Very nice plugin btw, wish ppl would comment on the actual plugin rather than fight about stupid little things. >>
I don't consider admin detection a stupid thing and I have no need for this plugin as I use Find It so can't comment on its actual use! Then again given the developers stance towards UMC'ing I wouldn't use it anyways.
-----signature-----
|
|
Link to this post
|
Enoch_VN
Posts:
????
Registered:
????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
|
^ *sigh*
-----signature-----
|
|
Link to this post
|
Arch_Magi
Title: The Lord of Chaos
Posts:
106,493
Registered:
Oct 31, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 102,020
User ID: 733,498
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
Crelic_MT posted:
But, it is also my believe that what you do with your paid subscription is none of my business, nor should I tell you what to do. So those who do get banned, well that is their own ignorance for breaking the rules. Just like anything in RL, when used correctly and following the rules you'll never be wrong and you have nothing to worry about.
QFT!
-----signature-----
(none)
|
|
Link to this post
|
Wildwood_Silva
Posts:
????
Registered:
????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
|
Great plugin, only thing i had to replace was the pk sound with the old "Alert!" wav file
-----signature-----
|
|
Link to this post
|
Drakier
Posts:
????
Registered:
????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
|
I'd also like to use this nice opportunity to point out that PK tracking is still against the Decal Code of Ethics... even though we know a ton of people do it.
-----signature-----
|
|
Link to this post
|
Arch_Magi
Title: The Lord of Chaos
Posts:
106,493
Registered:
Oct 31, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 102,020
User ID: 733,498
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
[Edit]
On second thought (or third), I'm not going to bother posting what I was going to say in public.
-----signature-----
(none)
|
|
Link to this post
|
Drakier
Posts:
????
Registered:
????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
Arch-Magi: we've already been over this... the Decal Code of Ethics are a set of guidelines. We have no way of enforcement other than to ask the devs to be respecful of it.. and we all know that there are way too many disrespectful people out there that to even assume everyone would follow the Code of Ethics is naive.
Doesn't mean we don't feel people SHOULD be respectful and SHOULD follow the rules regardless of enforcement.
My point is that it shouldn't REQUIRE enforcement for people to be respecful and follow the rules. I'm not as naive to think that people won't try to test limits and push boundaries and even flat out break the rules regardless.. but that again is my whole point. We as a society shouldn't NEED enforcement in order to follow the rules. Its quite sad actually to think that rules REQUIRE enforcement. In a perfect world, people would be able to make rules, and everyone would just follow them. No enforcement needed. But we don't live in a perfect world.
So again.. I ask you.. how exactly do you propose we "enforce" the DCoE?
-----signature-----
|
|
Link to this post
|
Arch_Magi
Title: The Lord of Chaos
Posts:
106,493
Registered:
Oct 31, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 102,020
User ID: 733,498
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
Ok, well, I guess I will offer up my opinion in public on the subject then.
Drakier posted:
So again.. I ask you.. how exactly do you propose we "enforce" the DCoE?
I don't know, how about using what you put into Decal and disable certain programs that don't pass "your" standards? I know that people keep saying that the "plugin disable" feature wasn't designed to do that, but like I said in my edited post above, a baseball bat wasn't designed to bash someones skull in, but that doesn't stop people from doing so.
You are right, in a perfect world, you wouldn't need rules. In a perfect world, everyone would do what "The Voice of Decal" (a nameless person or group of persons) would do what they say, without question. In a perfect world, people would play the game as Turbine designed it and not rely on plugins. In a perfect world, Turbine would include only those plugins that they deem as fitting. In a perfect world, people who posted a CoE would make Decal so that they would not pass on information that could be used by plugins that they don't like (ie if you have a problem with +Envoy detection, change the platform so that it will not pass that information, etc). In a perfect world ... oh wait, we don't live in a perfect world.
Unless you are prepared to enforce your "ideals", then all the CoE is is just words, meaningless words.
-----signature-----
(none)
|
|
Link to this post
|
robibla
Posts:
????
Registered:
????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
what is actually wrong with PK detection anyway? It's been in the game as long as i can remember in some form or another.
There are a lot of things in this game that are against the CoC and against guidelines that actually keep the game alive. I just wish people would wake up and realise that. AC would be dead without them.
The people trying to enforce these rules are just quickening the death of the game. Turbine doesn't care, so why should anyone else.
-----signature-----
|
|
Link to this post
|
Drakier
Posts:
????
Registered:
????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
That's my point.. it SHOULDN'T be meaningless.. because they are the words of Decal.
As for your suggestion of "enforcement"... That doesn't exactly work as there is no way to ENSURE that the plugin will "Stay" deactivated.
It's not meant as a banning tool.. if we "ban" a plugin in which the developer didn't want banned, it would be trivial to release a new unbanned version. And there is absolutely no point in getting into "hacking wars" with plugin developers attempting to one-up eachother.
It's meant as a way to deactivate old and unwanted components by developer request, to prevent the spring-up of an unwanted version.
-----signature-----
|
|
Link to this post
|
Paraduck
Title: quantum mechanic
Posts:
88,652,030
Registered:
Feb 27, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 51,297
User ID: 70,706
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
|
Drakier, ideals aside, at this point would you be in favor of a more effective enforcement system?
-----signature-----
We are like dwarfs sitting on the shoulders of giants. We see more and things that are more distant than they did,
not because our sight is superior or because we are taller than they, but because they raise us up and their
great stature adds to ours
|
|
Link to this post
|
Arch_Magi
Title: The Lord of Chaos
Posts:
106,493
Registered:
Oct 31, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 102,020
User ID: 733,498
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
There is no way to ENSURE that people won't kill each other, yet we still have "laws" and "penalties".
Don't get me wrong, I personally think as the above poster, that there is already too few people playing AC to go and quibble about "so and so plugin" and selectively banning people or plugins because they want to play a game as they see fit without having someone elses idea of "right and wrong" applied to them. I just don't see the use in having a set of rules that won't be enforced ... and if they are unenforcable, why keep bringing them up.
After all, we all have a passion for AC, and now is not the time to polarize the population with things that, as you assert, can't be enforced.
-----signature-----
(none)
|
|
Link to this post
|
Drakier
Posts:
????
Registered:
????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
No. I'm not in favor of enforcement, because it's on the honor system and respect system. It shouldn't REQUIRE enforcement, and it's a wasted effort to even attempt enforcement.
What I am in favor of is Developers realistically looking at the impact of their actions before just doing things.
While I agree that PK detection isn't the end of AC or even really that large of an issue, I was merely pointing out that it is against the DCoE. Replex doesn't need ACDev assistance anyway, so it's not that large of an issue for him to do it.. since that really is the only kind of enforcment we can control.. how much help we give to people tho violate the DCoE.
The whole respect and honor issue is just becoming a dead horse anyway though, and I believe it is overall a wasted effort because people just don't care. It makes baby Jesus cry.
-----signature-----
|
|
Link to this post
|
-Logan_Conrad-
Posts:
6,896
Registered:
Jun 14, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 6,820
User ID: 154,330
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
|
I might try the plugin just for the One Touch Healkit option.
-----signature-----
Logan Conrad -MT- 221st Level Combat Archer Kal'Aaron -MT- 183rd Level Deadeye Shadow of Logan -MT- 147th Level Combat Archer "I can't stand pain. It hurts me!" - Daffy Duck AC's Best Resource => http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/ACC_Wiki_Home
|
|
Link to this post
|
Paraduck
Title: quantum mechanic
Posts:
88,652,030
Registered:
Feb 27, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 51,297
User ID: 70,706
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
Drakier posted:
No. I'm not in favor of enforcement, because it's on the honor system and respect system. It shouldn't REQUIRE enforcement, and it's a wasted effort to even attempt enforcement.
OK, so you wouldn't support Turbine stating (or contacting plugin devs) that certain plugins wouldn't be allowed? I know that's going to be a hard thing to do and probably has been tried, but IMO, it's one of the best ways to go if things start to get out of hand. Just trying to be clear.
-----signature-----
We are like dwarfs sitting on the shoulders of giants. We see more and things that are more distant than they did,
not because our sight is superior or because we are taller than they, but because they raise us up and their
great stature adds to ours
|
|
Link to this post
|
Drakier
Posts:
????
Registered:
????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
Oooh.. you meant TURBINE enforcement..
I'm all for Turbine Enforcement.. we've been trying to get Turbine to actually HAVE a stance for years.. they still don't other than their loose UCM policy. I've pretty much given up hope on Turbine EVER releasing ANY guidelines as to acceptible and unacceptible plugins.
If Turbine WERE to release guidelines, I'd be all for it, and Decal would be changed to accomodate the changes.
-----signature-----
|
|
Link to this post
|
immortalbob
Title: AC Vault Staff
I am batman!
Posts:
11,887
Registered:
Feb 24, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 11,708
User ID: 649,929
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
|
drakier, out of curiosity, why is pk tracking against the dcoe? its not like it can track the whole world, just the area around the player...besides, it will help on darktide when you can set friendly/enemy guilds (thats if it is implemented ina future release)
-----signature-----
ImmortalBob, Axer Extraordinaire
+Turbine Sappho tells you, "I am starting to think you are immortal"
|
|
Link to this post
|
Bn_Kleenex
Posts:
6,856
Registered:
Dec 12, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 6,610
User ID: 747,965
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
"What I am in favor of is Developers realistically looking at the impact of their actions before just doing things. "
/e giggles
Are you sure you're being realistic to what ACDC is used for?
Edit: grrrrr... got sidetracked. Thanks Replex, and grtz!
-----signature-----
Jean Carlo - Mage........... Jane Carlo - Xbow Emilio Aguinaldo - UA......Urtho - Tinker Skandranon - Mage.........Jamie Fraser - Axer Happy IG Hubby  Dark Mist
|
|
Link to this post
|
Drakier
Posts:
????
Registered:
????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
bob: originally, PK tracking (or ANY player tracking) was against the DCoE because of the balance issue. That was before 6th Sense was really popular and the whole "unfair advantage" thing played a large role in the game and Decal/Plugin development.
The whole point of the DCoE was to provide guidance to plugin developers on what are things that should generally be avoided while constructing plugins.. especially to developers who just "want" something without thinking about the changes to balance or other things that would be a result of that "want".
The Decal Code of Ethics is actually pretty old, and has remained fairly unchanged through it's lifetime. The guidelines in the DCoE still hold true for the most part however in that things that cause large imbalance should generally be avoided because you can't guarantee that everyone will be able to run the same plugin.
Most of the DCoE actually really only applies to white worlds however because we all know the hack-fest that is/was DarkTide. Doesn't matter what you tell DarkTide.. they'll always do their own thing.. lie, cheat, exploit to get ahead because on DT, survival is the name of the game.. and if you don't compete through hacking, then you lost because everyone else is. While I don't personally agree with that philosophy, it's a way of life on DT, and I don't even pretend to assume to know anything about it.
Kleenex: as for ACDualClient, if I had ANY control over what it did ingame, I'd attempt REALLY hard to make it not usable for UCM. Unfortunately I can't. Also unfortunately for OTHER players are the players who feel the need to exploit a tool which was NOT designed for CoC breaking activity and use it for something that goes against Turbine's wishes. ACDualClient was originally designed and written to help with secure trade and muling. It wasn't written to be able to PLAY 2 characters or macro them. Back when ACDualClient was written, there were no public combat macros. We all know who we can thank for that. If perhaps it could have even been forseen that combat macros would be as widely used today as they are, then perhaps it would have changed my opinion on releasing ACDualClient.
-----signature-----
|
|
Link to this post
|
-Logan_Conrad-
Posts:
6,896
Registered:
Jun 14, '01
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 6,820
User ID: 154,330
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
I use ACDC to mule between two accounts without having to drop mule or put stuff in my already over crowded chests. 
-----signature-----
Logan Conrad -MT- 221st Level Combat Archer Kal'Aaron -MT- 183rd Level Deadeye Shadow of Logan -MT- 147th Level Combat Archer "I can't stand pain. It hurts me!" - Daffy Duck AC's Best Resource => http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/ACC_Wiki_Home
|
|
Link to this post
|
Bn_Kleenex
Posts:
6,856
Registered:
Dec 12, '02
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 6,610
User ID: 747,965
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
"Kleenex: as for ACDualClient, if I had ANY control over what it did ingame, I'd attempt REALLY hard to make it not usable for UCM. Unfortunately I can't. Also unfortunately for OTHER players are the players who feel the need to exploit a tool which was NOT designed for CoC breaking activity and use it for something that goes against Turbine's wishes. ACDualClient was originally designed and written to help with secure trade and muling. It wasn't written to be able to PLAY 2 characters or macro them. Back when ACDualClient was written, there were no public combat macros. We all know who we can thank for that. If perhaps it could have even been forseen that combat macros would be as widely used today as they are, then perhaps it would have changed my opinion on releasing ACDualClient."
Totally undertood bud. But if we're talking about taking a realistic view tho, then the intent of the design and writing of the program is moot. I would not wager on the percentage of users who use ACDC to macro multiple accounts, but Im pretty sure there's quite a few out there. Hell, if you go EO now adays, don't be surprised if some fellows are filled by 2 - 3 "real" people only, playing 2 - 3 accounts in the same fellowship, without benefit of the same number of computers.
As to the proliferation (sp) of "public combat macros" out there, your guess is most likely much better than mine, However, I'm pretty sure I've heard of macroers (heh, UCM was not yet coined, or used in ac  ) quite a long long time now. One distinct memory were archers, dozens of them, standing on this one wee column of stone in the Acid stone dungeon
All im saying is, and lord i hope you don't listen to me  , is that if you really want devs/progs do give a realistic view on things, I suggest you look to the home first. Hell, and I don't mean to bring in another dev into the topic but, do you think El Tank writer really thinks Tank is not used to UCM?
-----signature-----
Jean Carlo - Mage........... Jane Carlo - Xbow Emilio Aguinaldo - UA......Urtho - Tinker Skandranon - Mage.........Jamie Fraser - Axer Happy IG Hubby Dark Mist
|
|
Link to this post
|
Drakier
Posts:
????
Registered:
????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
Kleenex: I think you missed my point..
I DID look home first.. I studied the impact of a Dual Log application within the context of AC at the time.. Macros had not been invented yet.. the Archer macros and others came AFTER I released ACDualClient (at least the public ones).
When I designed and released ACDualClient, the only impact it had on the game was allowing players to securely place items between accounts. Machines of the time weren't really even possible of playing AC well with 2 clients running unless you had a top of the line machine. We're talking OLD school here.
When I studied the impact, Dual Logging was already happening anyway. I just created a way to make it easier. And for the most part, as far as I know.. it was being utilized "properly". Since macros really didn't exist in a public sense at the time, players were using Dual Log to mule items, and perform trades. It worked nicely. Then came the macros and other things. How could I have known it was going to happen when combat macros themselves weren't even around yet?
But knowing what we know NOW should impact the judgement of CURRENT developers developing NEW software. I don't expect them to read into the future for activities that haven't happened yet, but I do expect them to learn from the past, and make changes to the way they design new applications or plugins. That's what history is for.. to learn from. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
-----signature-----
|
|
Link to this post
|
--Replex--
Posts:
????
Registered:
????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
The reason why I have released the PK functionality of this plugin is not a matter of me not caring, I do not believe plugins that give an unfair advantage should be created or released.
That being said, I do not believe that giving a character the ability to see who is around them more efficiently is really that much of an advantage at all. You have plugins like this for all other aspects of the game. Make It for trade skills, Eltank or Lifetank for combat, MuleTrader for Trade bots, among dozens of other plugins. They all make that area of the game less stressful for the player. In my opinion Make It and MuleTrader have far more negative conotations for this game than any simple detection plugin ever will. They are providing players a means to not only create items with trade value to other players, but doing so at mass-production levels.
Make It alters the very basis for trade in the game, the economy. This combined with applications such as MuleTrader, not only allows player to achieve wealth relatively easily, but harms other players that do not use the plugin. Decal is an API that provides ONE thing, the ability to automate tasks inside of AC. The above mentioned plugins are available to everyone, anyone can have this advantage if they so choose.
Now lets talk about advantages..
Arguing that it gives certain PKs advantages over others is a farse, you already have the ability to select PKs and attack them on your own, so instead of seeing (Name) says, "Cruath Quasith", you see "[Spies] Detected : (Name)" first and it gives you the ability to select them and vuln them. It does the same thing that every other plugin does, it cuts out the middle work. However it doesnt even do it completely, it is up to YOU the player killer to attack and kill them, which is no way is an advantage explicitly given by the plugin.
I released this code with full ethical reasoning on the matter, and after testing of this plugin over months I realized that the plugin really didnt effect how PKing worked. Just instead of cycling through a list of 20 PKs with the ; key to find that one I want to attack, I am able to select and vuln them automatically. I have fully read the Code of Ethics, and I believe that the views expressed in the article are outdated for the most part in context with this game.
I will quote you a line from the Code of Ethics:
"Asheron's Call is not a static game. . . . The threat changes"
I cannot truly believe that a PK detection plugin for the local area can in any way provide a threat to the game. This is not an unfairly released plugin, all players have the ability to download it just like any other plugin. It is up to the player to determine if they would like the middle work cut out (them pressing ; then End to cast the spell) or not.
-Replex
-----signature-----
|
|
Link to this post
|
Maddy_ACEDL
Posts:
12,311
Registered:
Feb 23, '00
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 11,836
User ID: 12,026
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
Please, that is such a stretch on talkng about the effects of Make It! and Mule Shopper on the economy that it is laughable.
-----signature-----
|
|
Link to this post
|
sui101
Posts:
????
Registered:
????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
I didn't bother reading half the posts since I can't believe how much ya'll wrote about this. I mean, for gods sake, it's a detection plugin. Sixth Sense and Bandit Sight could both be setup to detect admins/envoys before ToD was released. Did ya'll attack Faile for allowing us a plugin that did that too? I should hope not.
Do you also realize how many plugins do this same feature as a side effect? Virindi Chat System has it, Spies has it, ELTank has it, Alinco could probably do it, CastAway buff bot can be setup to do it with a little editing, LifeTank has an alarm that wont stop until you press a special button and even then you can set it up to automatically reply to certain sentance structures even so far as to ID stuff those admins are holding so you can tell them what's inscribed on their wand. There's also always ACTool which can be setup to do anything, even everything I just stated.
I know that this doesn't make it right in some people's eyes. What I can't believe is the amount of people, including vnboard board volunteers and decal devs, that have now ruined what could have been a support thread for a very usefull plugin. How many times do you all tell people not to go off topic? This is one side-effect turned feature that ya'll are fixated on, and if you really want to run Replex into the ground for his plugin he wrote for free for the community, please make your own GD post.
-----signature-----
|
|
Link to this post
|
Drakier
Posts:
????
Registered:
????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
sui: you'll notice that I didn't say one word until azrealthelost called the acdevs hypocritical.
after that I got called hypocritical for not treating paraduck the same as I treat other UCM plugin makers just because he is vault producer, so I had to clarify my position on that. I didn't start the off topic threads. I just defended myself and the other decal devs when people started to call our integrity and responsibility into question.
-----signature-----
|
|
Link to this post
|
sui101
Posts:
????
Registered:
????
Extended Info (if available)
Real Post Cnt: 0
User ID: 0
|
Subject:
Spies v3.0.2 has been released.
|
|
Drakier: Point taken, but as a non-dev and someone who doesn't care about all the plugin politics, I didn't bother reading. It's not a good excuse, but it goes to show why this thread should be locked.
-----signature-----
|
|
Link to this post
|
