cdrake999
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Is LifeTank in the process of being updated???
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I was just wondering if LifeTank was in the process of being updated to work with decal alpha 7?
Thanks in advance.
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W-O-L-F
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Is LifeTank in the process of being updated???
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Not unless someone else took it over.
I seem to remember Xeon posting that he has quit playing AC, and that there wouldn't be any more updates done by him as he no longer has an AC acct.
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The_Whack
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Is LifeTank in the process of being updated???
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Yup,
www.legionoffury.org
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cdrake999
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Is LifeTank in the process of being updated???
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Ok thank you.
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cdrake999
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Is LifeTank in the process of being updated???
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I talked around some, and somebody said he had passed it on to somebody else. So I'm not sure. But after patch, will the old alpha 6 still work? Also does ElTank run the same as LifeTank does for melee characters?
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LessThan3
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Is LifeTank in the process of being updated???
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www.legionoffury.org site looks a bit suss to me, some quite advanced ideas jotted down and an exe with the source...
Xeon released the source so anyone can update LT if they want.
LT still works for me with the latest decal.
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The_Whack
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Is LifeTank in the process of being updated???
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Yeah the source with an .exe extension had me wondering too.........
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LessThan3
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Is LifeTank in the process of being updated???
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you're the one who posted the link, you are not the author?
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Paraduck
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Is LifeTank in the process of being updated???
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I know the site operator (and presumably coder) on MT and I really don't trust him to get anything done... so if this is the future of LT, it'll be interesting to see what all the hardcore macroers do, let alone the impact on the game in general.
Now I'm off to bed as I had to edit this post 5 times to remove all the spelling/grammar/clarity errors.
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Lil-Blub
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Is LifeTank in the process of being updated???
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Trust the creator or not to get it done...
You’re going to soon see results. On June 20th or so... (Within a few days) the dev team that’s working on the project gets over with school/finals and they will have a bunch of free time to update this.
The team is considering eventually making it subscription based to avoid "complications" with over saturation on the servers.
The source was condensed into a .exe for ease of delivery. Instead of downloading 100+ different files. 
Scan it all you want. Nothing "questionable" has been done to the source. It's the original in a package.
The official website will change hands to a new domain in the future after it's initial release.
As for the life of Lifetank X... yes it will continue.
Go look at the features my team is looking at adding to Lifetank X!
Ales is going to be the first thing. I know a bunch of coders who actually make plug-ins who are too lazy to create this feature in their plug-ins also... So posh posh!
You'll all soon be shoving that big ol' foot into your mouths.
Effect on the game will be nearly the same as it has already been.I see no changes in that. If it were to become a problem for Turbine, we will no hesitate to make it a fully exclusive private plugin. 
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Mysticeyez1
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He wouldnt put a virus in it.
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Lil-Blub
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Is LifeTank in the process of being updated???
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LMFAO! @ Your sig.
Commander Jared Kurth splits Paraduck apart!
LMFAO! HAHA!
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Monolith_WE
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Is LifeTank in the process of being updated???
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I for one hope you guys update it, or new version of it. As this only thing that keeps me playing and keeping 6 accounts sub.
As for
The team is considering eventually making it subscription based to avoid "complications" with over saturation on the servers.
I would not mind making a donation, but if I would have to pay per account that would kinda suck.
Either way I look forward to seeing new version.
Thanks
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Faradn
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Is LifeTank in the process of being updated???
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Subscription fees for an open source project you didn't start?
Ok...
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Yula_the_Mighty
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Is LifeTank in the process of being updated???
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Faradn posted:
Subscription fees for an open source project you didn't start?
Ok...
Nothing unusual for that. Linux is open source, but you can buy modified versions of it, packaged up neatly, and so on from a bunch of different companies and there are even subscription fee versions (It is called annual maintenance or support fee...)
Same thing here. The old code is delivered as is - For free. You do not like it. Modify it yourself. Or pay the price if any...
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Drakier
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Is LifeTank in the process of being updated???
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Yula:
99.99% of the code in LifeTank was developed by someone else...
Charging ANY money for plugins is against Decal Code of Ethics...
Put the 2 together and you have 1 HUGE no-no.
not to meantion, I feel as the others have posted that regardless of the Decal CoE, charging for a plugin which you didn't even originally design or have any hand in making, and only after the fact you "tweak" a few things.. you can't ethically charge for that... charging someone (making money off of someone else's work) is just bad bad form..
It's a bit different with Linux because it was a HUGE group effort and still is.. the kernel itself wasn't a group effort, but almost everything since then has been.. not to meantion, most of the stuff you pay for are personalizations on the packages, and actually shouldn't be using that much of someone else's code.
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Ashake
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Is LifeTank in the process of being updated???
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Not to try to ruffle feathers, but an honest question ...
If there is a code of ethics in place, should it not be enforced? In other words, IF the folks currently tweaking LTx WERE to decide to charge a "fee" of some sort - would the Decal Devs put some muscle behind their code and make Decal so it would no longer accept running LTx? I realize this is a hot issue - but I remember before when LifeTank first came out, and only ONE allegiance per server was "allowed" to use it, nothing was really done but a lot of verbal fencing.
My personal take? If you deliberately create/tweak a plugin that is designed to circumvent the CoC of Asheron's call ... Decal should not run it period. And if the Decal Devs are going to create a Code of Ethics that they expect plugin authors to follow - they should have a plan in place to enforce it, or you all just look silly.
Just my two pyreals' worth.
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Arch_Magi
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Is LifeTank in the process of being updated???
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Paraduck posted:
I know the site operator (and presumably coder) on MT and I really don't trust him to get anything done... so if this is the future of LT, it'll be interesting to see what all the hardcore macroers do, let alone the impact on the game in general.
Write a 3 line macro using AC Tools to keep ElTank alive (as some currently do). That or they will write their own UCMing plugin for Decal, become a respected person of a community and even trusted developer and continue to charge IRL $$ for their UCMing program then when they leave AC for other games, convince one of the biggest anti-UCM developers out there to take over his other plugins.
Ashake posted:
Not to try to ruffle feathers, but an honest question ...
If there is a code of ethics in place, should it not be enforced? In other words, IF the folks currently tweaking LTx WERE to decide to charge a "fee" of some sort - would the Decal Devs put some muscle behind their code and make Decal so it would no longer accept running LTx? I realize this is a hot issue - but I remember before when LifeTank first came out, and only ONE allegiance per server was "allowed" to use it, nothing was really done but a lot of verbal fencing.
My personal take? If you deliberately create/tweak a plugin that is designed to circumvent the CoC of Asheron's call ... Decal should not run it period. And if the Decal Devs are going to create a Code of Ethics that they expect plugin authors to follow - they should have a plan in place to enforce it, or you all just look silly.
Just my two pyreals' worth.
Ethics in programming ... what next, ethics in politics?
They already put in place a "method" that they can "deal" with it if they so choose (they have just not done it, and they said that they wouldn't do it for the "old LifeTank" ... but maybe they will for the new one) ... they can "black ball" any Decal plugin they want remotely.
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SpK_WE
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Good old lifetank is still alive as I can see ;p
When I first released the source code of the plugin, it was clearly said that it must stay in the public domain and no profit must be made over it. If you want to sell stuff, create your own product.
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MT_Gouru
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To date we haven't blackballed any programs, except when the developer asked us to.
If the developer of LifeTank asked us to blackball it, we would.
And I'm talking about the developer, not some johnny-come-lately maintainer...
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Yula_the_Mighty
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Is LifeTank in the process of being updated???
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Drakier posted:
Yula:
99.99% of the code in LifeTank was developed by someone else...
Charging ANY money for plugins is against Decal Code of Ethics...
Put the 2 together and you have 1 HUGE no-no.
not to meantion, I feel as the others have posted that regardless of the Decal CoE, charging for a plugin which you didn't even originally design or have any hand in making, and only after the fact you "tweak" a few things.. you can't ethically charge for that... charging someone (making money off of someone else's work) is just bad bad form..
It's a bit different with Linux because it was a HUGE group effort and still is.. the kernel itself wasn't a group effort, but almost everything since then has been.. not to meantion, most of the stuff you pay for are personalizations on the packages, and actually shouldn't be using that much of someone else's code.
I love discussions comparing ethics versus money. It does not really matter what you or I think. I am like you, I think it is not appropiate for the two reasons you quoted. The reality is that a large portion of the population does not see it that way.
1) There plenty of examples of public free software that have become pay software. Either the publisher decides that do not want to release any more free updates. Or some one else takes over the code base and decides - all future versions will be for pay. Even though the complete source code for 2005 version is available on the net. The owner is charging $15.00 to get the 2006 executable when the source code for the 2006 version is 99,900 lines of public source code and 100 lines of new code.
2) I know it is against the Decal Code of Ethics. All you have for enforcement is - Do not do that... How do you propose to stop them - oh toothless and clawless snuggle kitty? Yula the herbivore hugs the harmless carnivore...
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Arch_Magi
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Is LifeTank in the process of being updated???
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MT_Gouru posted:
To date we haven't blackballed any programs, except when the developer asked us to.
If the developer of LifeTank asked us to blackball it, we would.
And I'm talking about the developer, not some johnny-come-lately maintainer...
/Devil's advocate on
Well, what would prevent him from taking the source (which he apparently has), do a "find and replace" for LifeTank and call it "Bob" and then change the interface a little bit, rip out several features and spit it back out? Apple and others tried, and failed, to haul people into court for "look and feel" and failed.
I mean I don't know for sure, but is part of the CoE that you submit your source code to the Decal Devs for approval?
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Bn_Kleenex
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Is LifeTank in the process of being updated???
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Dumb question to possible answer Arch.. but when they "blackball" something, doesn't that mean it won't run on Decal?
I would think changing Lifetank to "Bob" will not confuse those who know enough to write plug ins (which will include myself in about 2000 years  )
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Digero
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As far as I know, it's easy enough for a plugin dev to "get around" a plugin being killbitted/blackballed... Its intent was never to censor certain plugins from being used, but rather to disable old plugins or components that no longer work and can cause crashes, or perhaps disable a plugin at the author's request.
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Lil-Blub
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You all have valid points.
Let's just see what the "Lifetank X Reborn dev's" decide to do!
I really think it's always been past the Decal devs. Remember Lifetank 1?
Payment was expected to authorization of the plugins features.
SpK profited for years on that fact alone.
I can call the next version's "Paypal" button a "Flavor and Update Fee".
That's not for profit. That's to keep the software updated and kept in it's flavor!
Such bull you guys are "trying" to pull. I would love to see this crap actually stick in court.
BTW (No need to edit it in)... My best friend is a Civil/Criminal Lawyer. She would LOVE to challenge your case if you ever actually got one going (she said she does know people in each state and it would be free upon my behalf since I am family.)! She heard about this post and laughed at you all and me. (She asked me to convey that too you.) She also says.. she thinks your all a bunch of power hungry geeks. She thinks im one also. LOL. I think shes great!
Shes right. Good luck in court if your gonna even pay the fees to get the case going. Based on your "in" college budget's I don't see it happening anytime...ever. But prove me wrong. BTW.. who you going to sue? Do you have names? No one actually said SUE.. but hey... your typed "eula" words headed me to believe that.
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Drakier
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Is LifeTank in the process of being updated???
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Digero: that's the exact reason for it.
We never presumed to make it be an end-all to kill off plugins where the developer doesn't want it dead.. it would be a fruitless effort. It would only be a matter of time before the plugin either went further underground, or changed just enough to get past the "ban".
It wasn't designed or intended for that purpose at all (as we claimed when we originally put it in). People were worried that we'd start banning ELTank and/or LifeTank when the truth of the matter is.. banning those plugins would only work if the developer wanted to keep it dead. Even then.. it's not impossible to hack around.
As for enforcement of the Code of Ethics... there was once a thing called Honor and Respect.. I know it's a foreign concept to many, but that is what was intended when the Code of Ethics were drafted. It was on the Honor system that developers would have enough class, honor, and respect to not break them. While there is no direct enforcement of it, we can clearly see who has respect for the works, and who doesn't.
It's all a moot point at this phase though since the ORIGINAL developer has now made a comment that the code is NOT FOR PROFIT. While even that may not be completely enforcable to many people, again, one would hope that developers have the class, honor, and respect to uphold the developer's wishes.
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Lil-Blub
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"As for enforcement of the Code of Ethics... there was once a thing called Honor and Respect.. I know it's a foreign concept to many, but that is what was intended when the Code of Ethics were drafted. It was on the Honor system that developers would have enough class, honor, and respect to not break them. While there is no direct enforcement of it, we can clearly see who has respect for the works, and who doesn't."
(EDIT:You're= The Decal Devs) Sorry Drak!
You’re preaching?!
About ethics none the less? LMFAO!
You’re the one who attacks people’s posts and keep it going 10X fold.
You're wanting respect... You better expect to give it also.
I am willing to compromise if everyone else is also. It's a give and get thing. The "rule" is correct.
The "behavior" has not been with the narcissist/elite attitudes of others but actually within The Decal Devs themselves. TDD FTL!
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-Zalliun-
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-BTW (No need to edit it in)... My best friend is a Civil/Criminal Lawyer.
Woo Hoo you pulled my friend is a lawyer card.
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-Zalliun-
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-You're wanting respect... You better expect to give it also.
as much as i dont agree with the devs on alot of things , unlike you they actually acomplished something , other than putting up a website trying to make a profit of other peoples code against the authors wishes.
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Lil-Blub
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AGAIN>.... Since you didn't read it fully and "correctly" (I suggest you stop speed reading..)
I said it could be .. or might be..
Nothing is set yet. SHOOT.. development hasn't even commensed yet until Jun 20th.
ALL MAYBES at this point.
NOTHING FOR SURE. Wait and see. I think it should be free also. I am just "The voice of Lifetank X reborn".
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Drakier
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I respect when respect is due.
There are a number of people who I've had confrontations with in the past.. pretty much all of them can tell you that it was nothing personal and I've given them respect when resepct was due.
You've been more than disrespectful to me and the other devs COUNTLESS times. Generally when I am not respectful, it's because the person I'm disrespectful to was disrespectful. No necessarily toward me, but toward something I think deserves resepect.. such as the CoC, the CoE, the ToS, etc.
Even with you, it's nothing personal.. you just disrepect a lot of things a lot of the time. I don't think that deserves respect. Therefore I do not show as much respect towards you. I have nothing against you personally other than your lacking of respect to things that deserve respect (once again, I'm not talking about me specifically.. I don't deserve respect any more than anyone else does). I'm talking about the rules. Some people respect the work that the Decal Devs do (and we appreciate it). Some people appreciate the difficulty that is being a Decal Dev. Now I can't speak for the other devs, but I personally never demand personal respect. If you respect me, then that's great. If not, I don't particularly care. As long as you respect the rules. If you respect the rules and aren't personally disrespectful to me, I have no problems with you.
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-Isabela-
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Taking someone's open source code that they've labeled not for profit and using it to profit is stealing.
That would hold up in court just fine, don't know why you don't think it would.
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Lil-Blub
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Again read up.. No one said ANYTHING was final.
How many times do I gotta repeat it before it sticks in your un-open minds?
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Drakier
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Lil-Blub.. check the post date..
you think -Isabela- read the whole thread and your reply within 3 minutes before posting her own?
chances are, you posted right after the thread was loaded, and then by the time -Isabela- got to the end, your post wasn't "shown" and so she posted her own.
although as you pointed out, before you said it wasn't for sure, but you sure made it sound like it was your intention to charge for it.
As for the name-calling.. why do you need to do that? what did -Isabela- do to you other than disagree with you? It seems like every time someone disagrees with you, you lash out and call them names or insult their intelligence in some way.
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Arch_Magi
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Drakier posted:
It's all a moot point at this phase though since the ORIGINAL developer has now made a comment that the code is NOT FOR PROFIT. While even that may not be completely enforcable to many people, again, one would hope that developers have the class, honor, and respect to uphold the developer's wishes.
/Further Devil's advocate on
"Not for profit" doesn't mean that you can't make money at it. In the strictest sense of the term (and I use that word "strict" loosely, as it is how ALL "Not for Profits" work) it could easily be said that they aren't making a profit off the use of the plugin, but rather just offsetting the loss ... I'm sure you know that the amount of time that it takes to keep a program going, even one you are just doing maint on and slowly expanding it (in addition to your time, you have web site hosting, bandwith, etc) and that the costs that a person MAY charge (since this is all an exercise in speculation since it hasn't actually happened) pales in comparison to the what COULD BE charged if he charged just $15-25 an hour (which is squat for a paid programmer).
-Isabela- posted:
Taking someone's open source code that they've labeled not for profit and using it to profit is stealing.
That would hold up in court just fine, don't know why you don't think it would.
I agree, but unless the Decal Devs require that all Decal App programmer submit their source code (which I don't think they do) and they compare the old vs the new, then it would just be one huge assumption. As for the original owner, sure he could take the person to court, but he would have to initiate the action.
All I was saying, is that if a person put their mind to it, a crafty person could exploit things ... but then again, when hasn't that been the case?
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Drakier
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Arch_Magi: I think that's where we disagree on "for profit"
I have no problem with Lil-Blub or anyone else putting up a "PayPal Donation" button that is optional use.. If people feel the need to donate, they can do so. Technically Lil-Blub could profit from it, but that is a "could" and not a "would". If the plugin went subscription only, you know what would happen in terms of money. People need their LifeTank, and I'm sure many are willing to pay whatever. Look at what happened when ELTank initially went "Subscription" based. I don't know the figures, but I'm sure Elgar made a pretty penny in the fraction of users who signed up. If he would have kept it subscription, I'm sure he could have made even more. But it is unethical, and we're all glad that Elgar decided not do keep it subscription based.
What I do not agree with however is the forced option of "subscriptions" where people HAVE to pay to use any plugin. I don't care if it is LifeTank or "Joe's Item Finder". Forcing people to pay money to use a plugin is just not acceptible in any case. Doesn't matter who's code it is. Technically it all hinges on the DECAL code because without Decal, all the plugins would be useless. You don't see us forcing payment, or even providing a single link for people to donate to "Decal". That's because we don't think it's fair or acceptible. If people want to donate to particular devs for any reason, that is their decision. But forcing any sort of payment is just not acceptible.
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Lil-Blub
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Hey I am just conveying words from the person's developing this. LTX Dev's.
Remember... I am just the "Voice of Lifetank".
So no one is suing me.
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Arch_Magi
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Drakier posted:
Arch_Magi: I think that's where we disagree on "for profit"
I have no problem with Lil-Blub or anyone else putting up a "PayPal Donation" button that is optional use.. If people feel the need to donate, they can do so. Technically Lil-Blub could profit from it, but that is a "could" and not a "would". If the plugin went subscription only, you know what would happen in terms of money. People need their LifeTank, and I'm sure many are willing to pay whatever. Look at what happened when ELTank initially went "Subscription" based. I don't know the figures, but I'm sure Elgar made a pretty penny in the fraction of users who signed up. If he would have kept it subscription, I'm sure he could have made even more. But it is unethical, and we're all glad that Elgar decided not do keep it subscription based.
What I do not agree with however is the forced option of "subscriptions" where people HAVE to pay to use any plugin. I don't care if it is LifeTank or "Joe's Item Finder". Forcing people to pay money to use a plugin is just not acceptible in any case. Doesn't matter who's code it is. Technically it all hinges on the DECAL code because without Decal, all the plugins would be useless. You don't see us forcing payment, or even providing a single link for people to donate to "Decal". That's because we don't think it's fair or acceptible. If people want to donate to particular devs for any reason, that is their decision. But forcing any sort of payment is just not acceptible.
But that is the rub, no one is "forcing" you to pay anyone anything. Ultimately, if you don't want to pay $x dollars to use "Bub", then don't use "Bub".
That goes with Decal itself. No one is forcing me to use it, if you guys started charging for it, I would look at the cost and make a self determination as to if it is "worth it" to me. If I deem it worthy, then I would pay it, if not, then I wouldn't.
People are free to "vote with their feet".
Further, I see it as improving the quality of the product for all. As it stands now, with world populations dropping, the programmers are finding it harder and harder to justify paying $13 a month to keep an account just to test their program that more than often takes much of their free time and they get nothing back in return. As a result, they get bored with the game and the plugin and leave.
For lack of a better term, "Greed is good", maybe if a programmer was making a little "scratch" they would stay motivated and the plugins would stay around, thus keeping more players around. It is my firm belief that if Decal and/or ElTank folded up shop, AC would be even further dead inside of two months. I know for a fact that I would shut down all but 1 account (down from a high of 19) if Decal/ElTank folded (as it stands now, my other account is only there for when I get bored and wanna play my sword toon, but 99.5% of the time, it is a Buff bot for the guild.
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Yula_the_Mighty
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Over the years, I've done plenty of mods to existing code. To be honest if I had the time and desire taking public code like Lifetank and updating it. I have no problems with charging to cover my development expenses, hosting costs, support forums and time answers questions.
Lets say I had to change 100 lines. A nice low figure for that kind of service is $100 per line = ten thousand dollars. Software is expensive... Got to sell a lot of copies at 20 dollars a pop in a small target customer base like AC to recoup part of the expenses.
Most of you folks have no idea what it costs to pay a real software engineer or programmer to do any useful customer application.
You want to get drilled be in the wallet. End up like I was. I needed mods the publix Linus kernel and had to hire folks to do changes. In spite of it not being that much work, it still cost 50k.
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-BenT-TwiG-
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Lil-Blub posted:
Hey I am just conveying words from the person's developing this. LTX Dev's.
Remember... I am just the "Voice of Lifetank".
So no one is suing me.
If you are just the voice... I think they need to find a new voice...
Personally I think your an asshat and need to jump off a cliff...
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Arch_Magi
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So much for keeping it civil and personal attack free.
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Lil-Blub
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Not my maturity level at stake here.
I'm not trying to prove anything here. My/Our results will show it for what it needs to be. 
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Faradn
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A wise man once mused:
Liar - Lawyer, mirror for you; show me what's the difference?
I don't care about the legal aspects of it. I just know it's lame to take an open source project, do a small mod to it, and then try to sell it as a product you designed. People that do things like that won't be getting a penny from me. S
omeone mentioned the subscription fees for Mandriva linux and the like. That isn't a fair comparison at all, because with those plans you are getting something beyond what the open source version gives you. You are getting professional support, and exclusive installer packages etc.
All that said, I'm curious to see if lifetankx will truely be reborn. If it is, and it's free like it should be, I'll certainly try it out. I just had to throw in my 2 cents, weather you like it or not, about the idea of charging for something that already had the hard work done before you took it over.
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-Foxy-
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going to ask a question, dont get mad bc im sure to yall its a dumb one, bu if yall dont charge bc of the coe, btu didnt el tank charge? i seem to remember ppl saying somethign about having to pay to get a version?
or was that something else and nothing to do w/ this at all? 
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deamadar
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Good old lifetank is still alive as I can see ;p
When I first released the source code of the plugin, it was clearly said that it must stay in the public domain and no profit must be made over it. If you want to sell stuff, create your own product.
I think this says it all since he is the original coder of this plugin
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"I just know it's lame to take an open source project, do a small mod to it, and then try to sell it as a product you designed."
As you said... a modified version with more features, support...
This could infact be a fee based or subscription based.
We don't really HAVE to release it to the public. We could always make a encrypted and secure version which only clan members who are APPROVED can obtain.
Public was just an option!
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Drakier
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"We could always make a encrypted and secure version which only clan members who are APPROVED can obtain." - Lil-Blub
Technically you could, but just ask Elgar how hard that is to create and maintain... also ask him how hard it is to hack it.
Security is only as good as the best hacker who wants access.. if one person does it, you're out of luck. If one person breaks the ecurity, then they can potentially leak it to everyone else, and you're stuck with your foot in your mouth wondering how that happened.
And obsurity is only as good as the time it takes to make it.. a general rule of thumb is.. if it takes you longer to MAKE the security and obscurity than it does for some smart hacker to BREAK it, then it's not worth doing because it would be a waste of everyone's time.
If you really ever consider putting in security, I'd recommend talking to professionals in the field and getting some tips and tricks to help make it more secure. I don't know who you have on your programming team currently, but I don't know a whole lot of qualified people in AC who aren't either already part of Decal, or don't give a crap about LifeTank or other plugins. There are a few exceptions I can think of, but the majority of people I know who have the skills have either moved on, or are currently working on Decal.
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Hamfast
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Foxy,
For a very short period of time, after a particularly bad period, Elgar had eltank "Subscription Based", if you donated, you were granted access... if you asked, you were granted access... the donations were never required, but as with most things, the full truth is never a requirement to form an opinion.
****************************
In the case of Life Tank, if it gets updated, it will get updated, until then, it will not work with Decal 7...
If you want to rush the update process, why not go donate to who ever it is that is doing the updates now...
Oh, and just because...
Howdy Spk, how's life been treating you? (I remember you )
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Mike_MT
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yada yada yada.... bla bla bla....
IMO everyone stop complaining about everything, you should be glad that we are trying to atleast keep Lifetank X alive for everyone who uses it.
SO STOP COMPLAINING! If you want to see something added or removed in the Lifetank X Reborn then post it on the Forums at www.legionoffury.org < Enough said.
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I stopped reading after about the 5th post and my head was sore at that stage :-(
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Chazcon
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Arch_Magi posted:
It is my firm belief that if Decal and/or ElTank folded up shop, AC would be even further dead inside of two months. I know for a fact that I would shut down all but 1 account (down from a high of 19) if Decal/ElTank folded (as it stands now, my other account is only there for when I get bored and wanna play my sword toon, but 99.5% of the time, it is a Buff bot for the guild.
Yup, I would kill 5 accounts immediately and just keep my main around for kicks I guess.
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theredcheese
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By disabling decal's render service, lifetank still functions with the newest version of decal, just without the huds.
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Embalmer_MT
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Now there's a hot tip!!
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Lil-Blub
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Yah that's hot.
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vn_belce
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TY much theredcheese, just removing huds didn't work, but your way works perfect :P
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-Isabela-
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Lil-Blub posted:
Again read up.. No one said ANYTHING was final.
How many times do I gotta repeat it before it sticks in your un-open minds?
I never assumed anything was final. Just that in the event this occurred (not by you, or even with LifeTank necessarily), that it isn't legal under copyright law. In my opinion, it is also unethical to take the work of a third party that has been released for free and go against their wishes in order to profit.
I also wonder whether one is really allowed to modify something that is open source and then not keep it open source.
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Drakier
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open source all depends on the license it is opened under.
I can take any of my own personal code and release it to the world.. which would make it "open source"
unless I put a license agreement at the top and/or disclaimed my intentions, then it wouldn't matter legally what people did with it.. someone taking the code as-is and claiming it as their own is unethical, but not completely illegal either.
If Spk didn't put a license in his release, or state the restrictions on the release of the code, then it's mostly fair game.
If Lil-Blub or anyone else took the code, they would technically be able to close it off and not worry legally about too much issue... unless they did certain things with it.
It would be unethical for Lil-Blub to claim ownership of the code. It would also be unethical for Lil-Blub to profit off of the code without adding quite a bit of modification.
"Open Source" is really poorly used in most cases because what's REALLY important is the license of the Open Source.
Take Decal for example.. it was open source.. it was under the Public Domain license however which allowed us to basically make a ton of changes and close the source without releasing any of it. If the code would have been under the Gnu Public License (GPL) then we would have been in some serious trouble for closing the source (as many companies have with certain drivers).
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Faradn
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Lifetank was updated by someone else, so this whole issue is moot.
No hype, no fees.
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"It would be unethical for Lil-Blub to claim ownership of the code. It would also be unethical for Lil-Blub to profit off of the code without adding quite a bit of modification. "
I agree... but what defines "Quite a bit of modification" ? LOL.. VB6 to C++?
Already was going to be one of the things in the works...
If someone else wants to put their energy into the project to keep it updated, I might ask that person for that source code, add a few modifications and additions and probably just close it to my clan. It saves the work for everyone and I would also send that modified source BACK to that someone.
Everyone wins.
No need for paypal etc...etc...
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