MT_Gouru
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Subject:
Mule Trade It! Version 363 now available.
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This release fixes issues with the help, and incompatibility in syntax between the Check and Add commands. The colon is now used consistently in all commands.
If you are upgrading from a version prior to 0.0.359, please be sure to read the .359 notes on download page for information on the default install location and saving / transferring your MuleTrader settings.
This version also incorporates 'fuzzy' searching on the Check and Add commands which should simplify adding and checking prices of items. If you get full item names and/or values, it will continue to work as in the past. But it will also except partial names when they result in a single match.
There is also a new 'version' command. When you tell the bot 'version' he will respond with the version of Mule Trade It! that is being run. This is primarily for use by shopping plugins.
You can find it at http://www.asheronstoybox.com
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agnari
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Mule Trade It! Version 363 now available.
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thanks G, got it as soon as i saw.
now if all the others would upgrade - lots of bot owners aren't upgrading till something useful t them is fixed as not to confuse the patrons.
of course running old copy of software is confusing the issue. but you can't convince them they aren't part of the solution.
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Ag Nar
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Monolith_WE
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Mule Trade It! Version 363 now available.
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I upgraded as well, running good so far. Though I did not sell anything all night. I made sure it was working.  I watched several people try and use the bot, and it appears people don't know how to read insturctions or just don't take the time to.
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_HardSide_
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Mule Trade It! Version 363 now available.
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ok how you set mmd to 5 pts and plat scarabs to 1 pt...
there is no info on this at all. and no not self explained.
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MT_Gouru
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Mule Trade It! Version 363 now available.
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Not sure I understand the question. The points tab is not working?
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agnari
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Mule Trade It! Version 363 now available.
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hardside on the points tab you have to enter the name of the item: Trade Note (250,000) and 5 before hitting add
then Platinum Scarab 1 (Add)
that (250,00) is important as there are Trade Note (200,000) Trade Note (150,000) ect
i have it set up 50 = 1; 100 = 2, 150 = 3, 200 = 4 and 250 = 5 then of couse the points of the various items are anything and the buyers cna mix and match with various trade notes to get to various points easily
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Ag Nar
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Abdul_TD
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Subject:
Mule Trade It! Version 363 now available.
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The primary two additions to make more people upgrade to the newer version would be the ability to sell a partial stack and/or the ability to autostack payments of trade notes and plats.
Once those two features are implemented, I think you will see a lot more bot owners make the upgrade and allow a much higher consistency amongst the bots.
Right now, all the upgrade will allow me to do is confuse the heck out of my many purchasers.
Do you have an estimate when those features will be implemented Gouru?
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MT_Gouru
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Mule Trade It! Version 363 now available.
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Those that don't upgrade are the primary culprit of confusing customers. People adapt to change, they always have, they always will. However change is much easier when there is consistency, and people not upgrading, as is their right, are part of the problem.
My primary goals after this release is making things easier for the customer. I personally am a customer much more often than I am a seller, and that is where you'll see the major focus of my work for a bit. Selling partial stacks is primarily a customer feature, so is very high on my list. Auto stacking and packing of payment is a seller feature, and is much lower on my list.
I cycle between plugins, so Mule Trade It! won't get much love for awhile unless there is a major bug or breaking change. Next, Mule Shop It! is getting an update to work with the new Mule Trade It!There are some features I want to add to Find It! (better control of finding majors and multiple spell items). I want Sort It! to handle currency exchange with a vendor (notes to plats or vicey versey), I want Einstein It! to do 'smart' self and other buffing (including equipping proper wands, buffing multiple weapons) and add chest storage and spell capabilities to Make It!
Then I'll cycle back to Mule Trade It! and work on the high priority stuff there.
So the short answer to your question, is 'not very soon', but it will happen.
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agnari
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Mule Trade It! Version 363 now available.
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G, auto stacking IS NOT a seller feature. IT is a BUYER feature!
consider the space multiple stacks of single mmds take up. Ive seen folks buy 5 to 10 bags of salvage ONE bag at a time and pay that way meaning multiple piles of mmds. That looses space that could be holding more stuff for sale. Especially if they are buying stuff out of the side packs and totally filling up the main pack. Soon space runs out and the bot stops functioning or logs off - needlessly.
Personally i like stacking mmds/plats in one pack NOT holding stuff for salvage that way tons of open extra space typically aren't needed.
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Ag Nar
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Abdul_TD
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Mule Trade It! Version 363 now available.
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I have to agree with Ag there, autostacking of payment is definately a buyer feature. I can't think of how many times I have ran out of room in my main pack from payments and then the person is no longer able to buy anything from the bot. I tend to be one of the few bots that keep the indemand salvages in stock but if the person isn't able to buy them because my main pack is full from other payments then it is hardly of any use to the buyer.
How would you as the buyer feel if you are looking for a couple of bags of red garnet to apply to two new weapons that you just looted and were not able to do so because the only tradebot with red garnet available is full?
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Maddy_ACEDL
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Mule Trade It! Version 363 now available.
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While it effects the customer, the issue is taking place on the bot (seller). So I would agree with Gouru that it is a seller thing.
But in the end it doesn't matter. I think how things get prioritized are based on how it effects Gouru.
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MT_Gouru
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I could stretch every feature to be either a seller or a buyer feature. Things that make life easier for the seller, indirectly help the buyer by making it easier for the bot to sell more stuff, or be online more. Things that make life easier for the buyer are a seller benefit because they will sell more stuff.
In this case, I see it as primarily a seller convenience feature, with the buyer benefits being indirect, and nothing I've seen so far convinces me differently. And since I decide priorities...
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Shiba-X
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Mule Trade It! Version 363 now available.
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And that is why you are gunna have multi versions of mule trader out..
The majority of sellers are not going to upgrade unless it helps them. The buyers Will adapt like you just said. The only way you are going to get everyone with one version is to add the feature that directly influences ME the seller.. Untill something that directly changes for the sellers is added they dont care what version is being ran. The Stacking of payments, while a low priority to you, isnt to alot of the bots you buy from everyday.
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Maddy_ACEDL
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Mule Trade It! Version 363 now available.
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<< And that is why you are gunna have multi versions of mule trader out.. >>
Or until a Decal update breaks the older versions and people will have to use the latest release.
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Abdul_TD
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Mule Trade It! Version 363 now available.
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Obviously Gouru is in a position that wields him that power...so that just might happen.
Until that time though, expect there to be multiple versions with no real rush to upgrade and for the people who took the time to upgrade, they will have to deal with the issue of most users not bothering to learn the new syntax and instead just shopping at the bots where the old syntax that they have learned over the last 4 years still works.
We appreciate the work that is being done Gouru, but throw us a bone and give us a reason to upgrade as currently there just isn't one.
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Maddy_ACEDL
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Mule Trade It! Version 363 now available.
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<< Obviously Gouru is in a position that wields him that power...so that just might happen. >>
I doubt it would be intentional. More likely something like how Decal handles views gets changed to improve perfermance and plugin authors have to change a few things in their apps to get them working with the new view system.
<< We appreciate the work that is being done Gouru, but throw us a bone and give us a reason to upgrade as currently there just isn't one. >>
Sounds like some bug fixes, which is usually a good reason to upgrade. But until the older one is no longer functional then there will always be at least one person hanging on to it.
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Embalmer_MT
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Mule Trade It! Version 363 now available.
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Hi ya I changed to the new Mule Tradeit Teriyaki Joe loves it.
Thanks Much Gouru!! (The other older Man)
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MT_Gouru
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Mule Trade It! Version 363 now available.
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I think I've decided I like the 'throw us a bone' metaphor you used and the visuals it creates.
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Furay_the_Less
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Mule Trade It! Version 363 now available.
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Appreciate the plugin, and love the way it works. Just a question:
Why did the funtionality of specifying a value for multiple items change from a "," in between the item and the value, to a ":" ?
I.e., Add Salvaged Steel (100): 45678
instead of, Add Salvaged Steel (100), 45678
That seems to be something that, for the moment, is confusing patrons, despite the very specific and excellent instructions.
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Furay, LoTRO hunter (Meneldor), Founder and Lifetime Subscriber Furay of Mirkwood: http://lotrovault.ign.com/View.php?view=RivendellFireHall.List&cate
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MT_Gouru
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Mule Trade It! Version 363 now available.
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Comma as a delimiter confused the selling of trade notes which have a comma in their name.
If you want to sell trade notes, the new version is required.
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Himura_of_SC
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Mule Trade It! Version 363 now available.
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Gouru, plug-in is great. Found a bug and havnt' seen anyone post it yet. The Report page, under Transations. It has the name of the buyer, but it doesn't show how much the spent on selected item they bought. The "Points" collumn is always at 0. Not sure if I'm missing something or not.
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Ftuoil_XelRasH
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It has already been reported.
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MT_Gouru
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Mule Trade It! Version 363 now available.
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I actually looked at that before the last release, and it was code I was nowhere near, so not sure what happened there. I will debug it more deeply in the next release.
On a side note...I looked at Mule Shopper. I will release a change to it to use the ':' separator but will not be releasing any future additions or fixes to it. I 'might' add shopping capabilities to Find It! as that is something I'd like to have, but I'm also gonna wait and see what Hazridi comes up with.
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Malavir
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Mule Trade It! Version 363 now available.
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Now that mule trade it has been updated, what are the odds of doing mule shopper? It really sucks now that most bots use a colon and mule shopper uses a comma.
Mal
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agnari
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Mule Trade It! Version 363 now available.
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Mal, may want to read the posting directly above yours.
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Ag Nar
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quren_mt
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Actually, what really sucks is that someone with enough time to devote towards mule trader didn't take over the project.
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MT_Gouru
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I have to agree.
Somebody agreeing to take over the code, making it his top priority, taking the time to set up a build environment and fixing the top bugs on the list within 6 weeks of getting the code, having the unmitigated gall to actually spend time playing the game for which the plugin is being written, all while going through one of the busiest times at work since starting there, really sucks.
The lack of dedication of these devs to the plugins they are 'supporting' is attrocicious. I recommend they just quit trying and leave it to all the people that have zero interest and / or ability to maintain them. As well as they complain, I'm sure they'll do a much better job of support.
; wanders off to find some coffee....
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Anotherstormslayer
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Mule Trade It! Version 363 now available.
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MT_Gouru posted:
I have to agree.
Somebody agreeing to take over the code, making it his top priority, taking the time to set up a build environment and fixing the top bugs on the list within 6 weeks of getting the code, having the unmitigated gall to actually spend time playing the game for which the plugin is being written, all while going through one of the busiest times at work since starting there, really sucks.
The lack of dedication of these devs to the plugins they are 'supporting' is attrocicious. I recommend they just quit trying and leave it to all the people that have zero interest and / or ability to maintain them. As well as they complain, I'm sure they'll do a much better job of support.
; wanders off to find some coffee....
People like your self who are truly good at what they do are always overworked and under paid and appreciated MT_Gouru. Many of us do appreciate all your work on a hobby we share with you this maddenly addictive game Asheron's Call.
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Arch_Magi
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Mule Trade It! Version 363 now available.
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If it wasn't for addicts, AC wouldn't be around today.
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quren_mt
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Mule Trade It! Version 363 now available.
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Actually Gouro, I was going more for the point that you cycle through your plugins. You fixed a few bugs, but the plugin is far from being fully functional. And now you say you won't even touch it for "a long time".
Wonderful.
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Chazcon
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Mule Trade It! Version 363 now available.
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/raises hand
"Hello, my name is Chazcon and I'm addicted to Asheron's Call."
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Chazcon - Aluvian swordsman
You say, "FOR THE VITAE!"
Ru tells you, "CHAZ!"
Simply Red tells you, "I am SO not recovering your body!"
-- Good times.
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Rodenator
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Mule Trade It! Version 363 now available.
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I would like to upgrade out bot to the new version, but if I do it means people will no longer be able to use mule shopper. It would have made more sense to release both together, all this has done is make a mess of things. Now reports does not show the amount of points spent by the customers? I would have rather put up with the comma issue than to have muleshopper and reports broken! And now G says he won't do anymore for a long time? Please return it to its previous state!
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-Kaleb-
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Mule Trade It! Version 363 now available.
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Request: Make a list of commonly used point items to choose from like AC Trade had. I can't even begin to describe the horrible spelling of some of the bots on Solclaim. That, and the fact that they only accept 3 out of the 5 common tradenotes because they don't know the correct values (I know, I know) makes it tough for a lot of people to shop.
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MT_Gouru
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Mule Trade It! Version 363 now available.
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I cycle plugins to try to keep everyone happy. For the most part all it succeeds in doing is making everyone mad because I'm not working on the one they want me to work on.
I agree, Muleshopper should have come out at same time, though I don't know how many people actually use it. I have source code, not sure I can build it because it fails to load completely, missing some control. It could be the control is not needed, in which case I just have to remove it from the project. But at the bare minimum, it has greatly increased the 'testing' time of the plugin to make sure it still does what it used to.
I will check with Gol to see if it's okay to release Muleshopper code. It was sort of a last-minute add on just in case I wanted it too. I picked it up, but really hadn't planned on supporting it at all.
As to the points display issue, that one mystifies me because I checked again and I wasn't anywhere near that code. I'll check a little further and see if it is an easy, relatively 'safe' fix.
For the past 20 hours, I've been at my daughters dance competition with 300 other kids, plus parents. No trophies in round dancing, but her square took first place in the intermediate division, and the club took both the exhibition first place trophy and best club entry tropies. Her square has advanced one division every year since she started dancing, and with the first place win today they are forced to move to the Senior division, which is the competitions highest level.
Oldest person in their square is 15. Most senior division dancers are over 18. They have their work cut out for them next year. So expect to see me even less then.
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W-O-L-F
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Mule Trade It! Version 363 now available.
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Congrats to your daughter Gouru!
Work should lighten up a little in ~4 more weeks :[p
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Ftuoil_XelRasH
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Mule Trade It! Version 363 now available.
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I will fix Muleshopper if you need a hand 
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MT_Gouru
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W-O-L-F posted:
Congrats to your daughter Gouru!
Work should lighten up a little in ~4 more weeks :[p
Actually, ~4 more weeks is about when the final push begins. I don't think 'lighter' will apply. You might try talking to me in August though. As a Pri 0 component, we have to finish early.
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Malavir
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Mule Trade It! Version 363 now available.
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I certainly appreciate the effort you and many other dev's give to AC and the support community. Without decal and the aid of many plug-ins I would have quit AC a long time ago. I am however a bit disappointed with what seems to be a somewhat lazy approach to the maintenacnce of both decal and plug-ins post tod. I (and apparently alot of other people) have had a number of ongoing decal problems regarding client crashes, updating and several plug-ins not functioning at all. It can be frustrating at times and often at least for me I have no outlet other then the utilities board. I don't want to come off as being rude or demanding just hoping to voice things that may be able to help the process.
Muleshopper and Muletrader should be on the same page.
Thanks for the effort. Please keep it up.
Mal
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Hazridi
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A lot of us simply don't have the time we would like to spend on Decal. I am a student and I'm taking a large selection of engineering classes, which kills my time. Others work at Microsoft and are getting workhorsed to death for Vista.
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Asba_2
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Mule Trade It! Version 363 now available.
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My 2p - the 0 value on transactions is not at all customer friendly. It prevents me from applying rational discounts as rewards for patronage. The loss of historical sales records was most unfortunate and it's being compounded daily.
I don't see how you can stress benefits to buyers and then introduce a colon as a substantial change so that sellers can flog MMD's. I did transfer over the world folder and the on again off again display of clan/individual discounts is another concern that can hardly be described as customer friendly.
Do appreciate the work that decal devs put into these plug ins but the constant thumbing of their noses is very offensive when real issues are raised.
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Hazridi
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Mule Trade It! Version 363 now available.
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I don't think many people here realise exactly how busy Gouru is. He is so busy I have to leave him PMs on this board. 
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Hazridi of WE, VT, HG, SC Decal Core Dev - http://www.decaldev.com - Beta at http://www.decaldev.com/beta
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W-O-L-F
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Mule Trade It! Version 363 now available.
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MT_Gouru posted:
W-O-L-F posted:
Congrats to your daughter Gouru!
Work should lighten up a little in ~4 more weeks :[p
Actually, ~4 more weeks is about when the final push begins. I don't think 'lighter' will apply. You might try talking to me in August though. As a Pri 0 component, we have to finish early.
I completely spaced on the final push  I know we are slammed right now, and are not really planning on any kind of lighter load until...who knows when...maybe Sept, but probably not until after it's all said and RTM.
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MT_Gouru
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Mule Trade It! Version 363 now available.
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If I ever start thumbing my nose, I'll let you know. I explain the rationale behind my decisions, and listen to counter arguments. I even change my mind if somebody really makes a good point.
I remember when Ken Karl stated that 'Fun' was the primary goal of AC. From that time on, it seemed like every argument or statement got stretched so that somehow it was ALWAYS 'fun' that was being hurt. I make a statement about buyers before sellers, and now everybody that wants their favorite feature in now stretches the definition, how it used, who it effects and on and on as it being a BUYER feature. Well guess what...EVERY SINGLE FEATURE IN MULETRADER IS BOTH A BUYER AND A SELLER FEATURE. Everything to some degree affects both. It's NOT black and white like some people claim to try to convince me that I'm doing the community a great service by not dropping everything I'm doing and working on THEIR special feature, RIGHT NOW!
What I find very offensive is people that claim that attempts to communicate rationally and setting realistic expectations are just us developers once again thumbing our noses at them.
Any statement like "I appreciate.... BUT" is by it's very nature offensive. It totally negates the positive, as anybody who has tried using statements like that with a spouse fully realizes.
If the feature is all that damn important to you, learn to code and do it yourself! I started writing plugins primarily because the ones that existed didn't have the features I wanted. You claim you don't have the ability? LEARN! That's what LOTS of others have done. You don't have the time? MAKE TIME! That's what we're doing, add it to your mix of activities and prioritize it.
There have been LOTS of people that offer to help. Their definition of 'help' is send them the software early so they can test it for me. There have been no less than FIVE offers of people swearing up and down that they would document how to write plugins. ALL of these except one has resulted in somebody running an automated tool that produced no more information than you can get by using Object Browser, posting it to a website with NO further explanations. The ONLY person who has done ANY documentation work is Zyrca.
You want to help? Then get off your fat arse and do something besides posting on the boards how the decal and plugin developers are sitting in some high tower, thumbing their noses at the peons below. Take some of the workload off, make it possible for the developers to spend more time developing.
And if you can't do ANY of the above, at least DONATE to the authors of the plugins you use. Believe it or not, that motivation WORKS!
But as it stands now, all I'm seeing is a bunch of freeloaders standing around complaining that the free steaks being handed out are only Choice instead of Prime.
Thumbing noses is offensive? Try standing on the other side of this relationship for awhile.
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ShaRhee
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Mule Trade It! Version 363 now available.
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I rely on the Reports tab far too much, I had to switch back to the older version but would love to upgrade to the newer version when that tab works. Thanks for all your hard work Ghouru, you do a great job with your plugins.
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Arch_Magi
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Mule Trade It! Version 363 now available.
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Hmmm, I guess I'll upgrade to this version (been running Gols last version) and check it out.
Thanks Gouru.
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Sempiterna
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Mule Trade It! Version 363 now available.
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AcTrade worked just fine in selling stacks of trade notes with commas in the names.
I honestly, see that changing the command syntax to use a : is going to be a _HUGE_ problem for nearly all of the people that use the tradebots.
People already have a difficult time in using the trade bots, this is just going to further compound that issue. I have to help people on a regular and daily basis who can not figure out the syntax as it is, if I upgrade to the this version with breaking the syntax, then I'm going to have to sit at the tradebot computer and just keep reminding people for ages to use a : insted of the ,
Personally, I know it can be done because it was done in AcTrade. I know that in my line of work I can easily parse..
I specfically dont see why there needs to be a value assignment for the trade notes anyway.
"Add Trade Note (250,000)" is a unique identifier, and "Add Trade Note (250,000): 250,000" is not going to help.
Or how about ...
"Add Trade Note, 250000"
"Add Trade Note, 150000"
"Add Trade Note, 50000"
This would also eliminate a lot of problems with the end buying user, but may not be very plausable with the way the bot stores its information. The various note demoniations would have to be hard coded to look for the values, verus the names.
While the " and ' denote string start / stops in PHP, you are able to comment them out as litterals with \ Why would it not be possible to do something like that with the bot?
Also, As many, many others have said.. there really needs to be a compelling reason to upgrade AND have the shopper plugin updated at the same time. Orelse its just not going to work and its going to make a lot of confusion.
Hence.. I have not upgraded my two bots yet.
Want donations? Then I would be more than willing to throw you $20 or even more, if you was able to acomadate the standards that have been setup for use with tradebots over the past 4 years or so. If you would listen to the complaints of the people utilizing the plugin (The sellers). If I had a reason to upgrade and to see that my donation would support my bot in such, then I would gladly give you some $$$ back. I gave a lot to AcTrade, including a significant amount of time with help for php and mysql support, which even after I took a break from AC -- I still gave support and still helped keep their database working when i was not even playing the game. Getting their version 2 website up and keeping the database of all those transactions was a nightmare, but we did it and I was there every minute of that, even tho I did not play. I also gave money too, even tho I provided all of that.
What we ask for -- I dont think is that difficult. Perhaps it is. I am not an expert in plugin development, just web development and sql development.
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Sempiterna (Lotro)- Lvl 50 Hunter
Sempiterna - Xbow (269) - ImmortalBob forever! (he paid me for this plug) (Retired)
Judor (Eve) 36 mill SP Mission Junkie (Retired)
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MT_Gouru
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As stated earlier, I am working on ideas to GREATLY simplify the syntax of purchasing things. The problem now is it uses exact name matches, instead of fuzzy matches, that alone would make a big difference.
Of course I can't do that it, as it is a Seller feature, because sellers would make more money when people find it easier to buy things.
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Asba_2
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"If the feature is all that damn important to you, learn to code and do it yourself!"
Hey look you did it again. That is thumbing your nose. I may not be able to craft the code you are able to but then that's not my business, passion or hobby. You made a statement that suggested buyers come first. I cited an example that refuted that and you climbed back up on your high horse. Have a nice ride. *smile*
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Extraordinary
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Where do you go for support on MuleTradeIt?
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Rodenator
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Yes, Gouru said better for the buyer, then broke it so Muleshopper would not work! Muleshopper was the best thing going for the buyer.
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XerxesTD
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Here is a typical interaction for a novice bot user:
19:42:24 Mama Jeanette tells you, "check salvaged iron 45099"
19:42:24 You tell Mama Jeanette, "I was unable to find any items by that name and/or value."
19:42:38 Mama Jeanette tells you, "check salvaged iron (100) 45099"
19:42:39 You tell Mama Jeanette, "I was unable to find any items by that name and/or value."
19:43:06 Mama Jeanette tells you, "check salvaged iron 45,099"
19:43:06 You tell Mama Jeanette, "I was unable to find any items by that name and/or value."
19:43:17 Mama Jeanette tells you, "check salvaged iron 45:099"
19:43:18 You tell Mama Jeanette, "I was unable to find any items by that name and/or value."
19:43:41 Mama Jeanette tells you, "check salvaged iron 45;099"
19:43:41 You tell Mama Jeanette, "I was unable to find any items by that name and/or value."
19:44:02 Mama Jeanette tells you, "check salvaged iron (100), 45;099"
19:44:03 You tell Mama Jeanette, "Unable to parse your request."
19:44:11 Mama Jeanette tells you, "check salvaged iron (100) 45;099"
19:44:12 You tell Mama Jeanette, "I was unable to find any items by that name and/or value."
19:44:36 Mama Jeanette tells you, "how much for the iron don"
19:44:44 Mama Jeanette tells you, "all of it"
19:45:13 Mama Jeanette tells you, "check salvaged iron45;099"
19:45:14 You tell Mama Jeanette, "I was unable to find any items by that name and/or value."
19:45:19 Mama Jeanette tells you, "check salvaged iron 45;099"
19:45:19 You tell Mama Jeanette, "I was unable to find any items by that name and/or value."
19:45:24 Mama Jeanette tells you, "check salvaged iron 45099"
19:45:26 You tell Mama Jeanette, "I was unable to find any items by that name and/or value."
19:45:34 You tell Mama Jeanette, "You've been here 4 minutes and haven't bought anything. You have 1 more minute till I close the trade window."
19:45:47 Mama Jeanette tells you, "check salvaged iron, 45099"
19:45:47 You tell Mama Jeanette, "I was unable to find any items by that name and/or value."
19:46:13 Mama Jeanette tells you, "check salvaged iron 100 45099"
19:46:14 You tell Mama Jeanette, "I was unable to find any items by that name and/or value."
19:46:22 Mama Jeanette tells you, "you there"
These type of exchanges happen far too often. Usually the customer finally figures it out. Not in this case, I'm sure she will hesitate on ever using a trade bot again.
If you could do some sort of fuzzy matching to recognize any of these requests, it would greatly simplify trade bot use for the customer.
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