Chazcon
Title: FOR THE VITAE!
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I need to hunt down Magma Golem Exarch's, to get my Hunter title. I need a detection program. So I finally decide to try FindIt!, even though it's a Gouru product.
While setting up configs, I find a checkbox entitled Increase Lag. Clicking on it produces this text:
":FI:Lag increase now enabled, ElTank and BS/2 users should now be more comfortable"
I immediately UNINSTALLED FindIt!. Gouru, what a jerk. Just a reminder of why I don't like you. (besides your buggy code).
-c
Locked for TOS and Title Edited
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Chazcon - Aluvian swordsman
You say, "FOR THE VITAE!"
Ru tells you, "CHAZ!"
Simply Red tells you, "I am SO not recovering your body!"
-- Good times.
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Drakier
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Umm.. it's a joke.
It's a commonly known thing that BS/2 and ELTank are just plain laggy plugins..
FindIt is fairly optimized and isn't nearly as laggy. So It was a funny joke to put in a "lag mode" to simulate a comfort level for BS/2 and ELTank users.
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Bala-LC
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Just another "plain as day" hate thing he has with anyone that uses ElTank....
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Maddy_ACEDL
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Probably what it does is be less smart about ID'ing things and starts ID'ing everything. This is a guess on my part.
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MT_Gouru
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Chaz, once again I must thank you for uninstalling any It! plugins.
I do apologize for tempting you to break your own principles. I was not aware that personal convictions were so easily put aside for just a little bit of convenience.
If you like, I can provide you with a special version of the It! programs that will not install on your computers and save you from yourself. I'll just charge my standard hourly rate for this conversion, but considering the benefit to your personal integrity, I'm sure you won't mind.
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Chazcon
Title: FOR THE VITAE!
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El Tank, laggy, maybe, because of everything it does...but Bandit Sight/2, is a fine plugin and one of the best, if not THE best plugin ever produced. FindIt! is a poor second. And Gouru's 'joke' is just another display of his personality that I find distasteful. I do not find it funny at all.
I know, personal attacks, yada yada, whatever. Live free or die.
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Chazcon - Aluvian swordsman
You say, "FOR THE VITAE!"
Ru tells you, "CHAZ!"
Simply Red tells you, "I am SO not recovering your body!"
-- Good times.
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Maddy_ACEDL
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A "beef" of Gouru's was how BS/2 ID'ed everything, especially on corpses of monsters just killed (going from memory on this). This taxes the servers more and thus more lag.
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Virindi-Inquisitor
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I never experienced lag caused by BS/2. Perhaps for people with a dialup connection...
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Virindi --- ****Virindi Plugins FAQ**** http://www.virindi.net/wiki/index.php/Virindi_Plugins_FAQ http://www.virindi.net - Virindi Tank, Follower, Integrator, Reporter, VCS5, XPHelper, Item Tool, HUDs, etc... Decal Core Dev - http://www.decaldev.com
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Drakier
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Virindi: You must not have had a very complicated list... because as the list size grew and as its complexity grew, the slower it got.
This isn't a rag on BS/2 or anything.. it was a fine plugin. I wouldn't call it the Best ever.. but it was a good plugin.
And yes.. it scanned everything. It scanned everything using NetEcho which made it even slower.
My comments were not an attack on ELTank or BS/2. It is just common knowledge that they aren't "fast" by any means.
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Chazcon
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Same here, no lag with my beloved BS/2. How I miss it.
There is a positive side to running It! plugins, it is a great way to gain some perspective on what a good plugin is, vs. a poor one.
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Chazcon - Aluvian swordsman
You say, "FOR THE VITAE!"
Ru tells you, "CHAZ!"
Simply Red tells you, "I am SO not recovering your body!"
-- Good times.
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Hamfast
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First off...
I think the "Lag Mode" is quite funny...
As for the "ID Everything"... how else do you decide what to "Find"? Do you ID every 3rd item and guess at the other 2?
Ahhh, it's the Gouru Conspiracy thing... Gouru has a Secret method to ID things that does not require they be id'ed...
I like the other feature Gouru has... after 30 seconds of unattended operation where Find-it can find Monsters it starts silently reporting you for UCM...
Ok, the last 2 are jokes... but hey, so is the Lag mode...
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Virindi-Inquisitor
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Only check weapons for weapon configs, only check items that can have spells for majors, only check armor for AL, etc, etc.
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Drakier
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Hamfast...
the difference is in processing EVERY statistic of EVERY item, or selectivly choosing based on item types
there are certain items that really don't need to even be looked at... by selectively choosing groups of items, it allows you to not have to do massive processing on EVERY item that comes in (which is what BS/2 did).
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MT_Gouru
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Actually, theres quite a few lines of code to prevent some things from being ID'd. As much as possible I try to work from the Create Object packet. Some things require an ID, weapons and armor for instance in order to get the stats. The only reason to ID a monster is to find out if it's 'mine'. Put a number of users in a dungeon with plugins that ID monsters, every time a monster dies, every one of those users sends a 'mine?' request to the server. Multiply that by the numbers of monsters dieing in a high spawn dungeon, and multiple dungeons on the same server. Not only is there personal lag being caused, there is additional server lag caused by having to process all these additional requests. How much? I don't know. But it is unneeded work. Worst case problem is trying to open a corpse that you don't yet have rights to. You get a message and move on to the next.
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-Foxy-
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*shrug*
i thought the lag thing was cute when i saw it
it made me smile
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Chazcon
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I'll take my BS/2, thank you very much, with it's incredibly detailed user configurable rules ability. You may be happy in your Toyota, but I'll enjoy my ride in my Ferrari infinitely more. To each his or her own, I suppose.
Lag? I ran a huge list of rules; it worked perfectly and didn't lag for me.
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Chazcon - Aluvian swordsman
You say, "FOR THE VITAE!"
Ru tells you, "CHAZ!"
Simply Red tells you, "I am SO not recovering your body!"
-- Good times.
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Hamfast
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Drakier,
I understand that every stat of every item need not be looked at... but to get the basic data for an item wouldn't you need to ID it?
Now I don't use Find-it nor did I use BS2, so I am kind of fishing here... I am only looking for casters with Mana C of 10%, Melee Def of 12% and work less then 5... and Imbue materials.
A MOB dies, A corpse gets created, ID it to see if it was mine... yes...
Open it...
5 items on it... (collection of creations)
Pyreals - ignore...
Sword - ignore as item - Material? - Steel - ignore
Caster - Mana C? - 10% - Melee Def? - 8% - ignore as item - Material? - Red Garnet - Grab...
Armor (Breastplate) - ignore as item - Material - Leather - Ignore
Armor (Crown) - ignore as item - Material - Gold - Ignore
At any point in the process an item can be eliminated... but some identification must be done to find out what it is... processing all that information may not be required, but is not all that data returned with the ID?
I can only imagine the lag caused if each statistical field needed to be quieried to get the information...
Thread Hijacking 101 
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Virindi-Inquisitor
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What you get on any ID is the same sort of stuff that appears in the ID page when you right click on something. Everything comes at once.
The savings is in ignoring stuff like pyreals or bad materials, methinks.
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Virindi --- ****Virindi Plugins FAQ**** http://www.virindi.net/wiki/index.php/Virindi_Plugins_FAQ http://www.virindi.net - Virindi Tank, Follower, Integrator, Reporter, VCS5, XPHelper, Item Tool, HUDs, etc... Decal Core Dev - http://www.decaldev.com
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MT_Gouru
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Some threads deserve to be hijacked...
A lot of information comes in with a 'Create Object' packet. This comes ANY time an object is created in the area, no matter what the type. It contains a lot of basic information about the object, but does not contain it all.
Additional information is obtained by sending a 'Request Id' message. The client does this when you right click on something, or press the Examine key. The server processes this and then sends you additional information on that object.
The system was designed to be a manual process, requiring either a right click or pressing the E button and was not meant to be something spammed by automatic processes. As a developer I feel a responsibility to avoid using systems too far outside their design parameters. So I try to limit the ID's to be no more than a normal user would use when checking loot. A 'normal' user does not ID every corpse in the vicinity to see if it belongs to them.
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Arch_Magi
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I think that is funny as heck.
I also support Chaz in his right to voice his opinion, just like I support Gouru to ask people not to use his programs with xTank.
I also find it "telling" of the state of mind of one App Dev to "rag" on another App Devs code to the point of putting that "joke" in.
As for what it is "telling", I'm not telling.
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Hamfast
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Awesome Gouru, thanks.
Arch Magi,
I do not disagree that Chaz can voice his opinion (as long as he remains within the rules for these boards), just like I can disagree and call the "Lag Mode" funny... Personally, I learned a bit here today, so all the better.
And just like Eltank comes with an individual from WE banned in the Buffbot, I think the Devs have the right to add these things into the code they write... Rag on who they like... name things as they wish... that is their choice... as it is our choice to use, or not use that work. and to come here to support or flame them for it (as long as we remain within the rules)
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Krackcode
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Personally, I think Gouru is doing people who use xtank the favor of getting them to remove his plugins. They are all terrible, buggy, half arsed plugins anyways.
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Warder_TD
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I have learned things from this thread. It is now a very good day for me.
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Lil-Blub
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Personally, I think all the coders are a bunch of sniveling whining control freaks who really want to have "He-Man/Masters of the Universe Powers".
This is a prime example of that:
Krackcode
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Title: Unleash the Kracken!
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Date Posted: 2:33pm Subject: RE: Message to Gouru
Personally, I think Gouru is doing people who use xtank the favor of getting them to remove his plugins. They are all terrible, buggy, half arsed plugins anyways.
They work just fine when I use them Krackcode...
Exactly how are they half "arsed"... ?
They do what I need them to do. 
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Drakier
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Lil-Blub.. do you have a thing for He-Man?
Almost every single post I've seen you make about Developers has had SOME reference to He-Man or "Master of the Universe" in it.
And I've come to notice that is it almost always the layman who harass the developers considering that actual developers have a little more respect. Even if they don't agree with another developer's view, they have enough respect that the person is a developer at all.
Maybe when you learn a little more about development, you might have a little more respect for what it takes to do what developers actually do.
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Lil-Blub
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Developer of a video game plugin. Get over yourselfs guys.
Your absolutly right 100% of the time and your never wrong! I am sorry, you are the god of all that exists decal devs.
K can you move on now? Do you feel better?
You are still controlling what people do or don't do. That is not up to you, your code or not. They control wheter the plugin SuckIt! or TankbuddyXXX works on thier system or not. You should have no malware/spyware/anyware in your plugins to prevent that.
I imagine that the original idea should have been thought over a bit more, but more recently (Last 2 years) you devs have cause quite the controversy to get a little bit of attention.
I guess I am done fighting now and giving you that attention. Go install suckit! please.
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-Foxy-
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Warder_TD posted:
I have learned things from this thread. It is now a very good day for me.
thats bc i was here 
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Drakier
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"You are still controlling what people do or don't do. That is not up to you, your code or not."
That's where you're completely wrong, and if you were a developer, you'd know it.
As a developer, I'm allowed to do whatever I want with my programs within the legal limits. There are laws against certain types of Malware and what is and is not legally acceptible.
Having your program disable itself at the sign of other software is not against any laws, and is completely within my rights as a developer if I feel that my users are using my programs against my EULA (which IS Illegal in most states).
an EULA is a legally binding document.. whether you read it or not. There are certainly other laws that Trump the EULA laws, but unless the EULA makes you give up any of your constitutional freedoms, you are legally bound to the EULA you agree to.
Once you actually have some knowledge and experience in software engineering and development then I might actually listen to what you have to say about development, and I might even consider your opinion about it. Until then, your opinion on software development is completely uninformed.
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Virindi-Inquisitor
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<<Personally, I think all the coders are a bunch of sniveling whining control freaks who really want to have "He-Man/Masters of the Universe Powers".>>
Who wouldn't? He-Man is the 'Most Powerful Man in the Universe'!!!
<<an EULA is a legally binding document.. whether you read it or not. There are certainly other laws that Trump the EULA laws, but unless the EULA makes you give up any of your constitutional freedoms, you are legally bound to the EULA you agree to.>>
There are plenty of other reasons a EULA may be invalid, but I doubt any apply to Gouru's EULA term.
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Virindi --- ****Virindi Plugins FAQ**** http://www.virindi.net/wiki/index.php/Virindi_Plugins_FAQ http://www.virindi.net - Virindi Tank, Follower, Integrator, Reporter, VCS5, XPHelper, Item Tool, HUDs, etc... Decal Core Dev - http://www.decaldev.com
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Dire_Fire
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Lil-Blub give up you'll never get your point across to developers like Gouru and Drakier esp. The only cool plugin maker I have ment so far is Elgar Lightfoot.
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Lil-Blub
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Dire I noticed.
Sad thing that decal has turned into a comptition of who's grapefruits are bigger.
Watermelons are bigger.
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