DrakkH1
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What's the word on the release date for the next version of Decal?
Anyone? 
Locked: Trolling
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Drakier
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read the sticky threads.
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Virindi-Inquisitor
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New Decal Version
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Given the frequency of previous updates and the date of the last update, one can extrapolate that it will be between 1 minute and 2 months.
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Virindi --- ****Virindi Plugins FAQ**** http://www.virindi.net/wiki/index.php/Virindi_Plugins_FAQ http://www.virindi.net - Virindi Tank, Follower, Integrator, Reporter, VCS5, XPHelper, Item Tool, HUDs, etc... Decal Core Dev - http://www.decaldev.com
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AvatorLC
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he measn the stickeies that have not been changed in over a month....
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Drakier
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I mean the stickies where it says not to ask for any ETAs.
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Beezamen
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Subject:
New Decal Version
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the problem I'm seeing is that there are 2 {soon to be 3 Alpha versions} of Decal floating around, and pluggies are getting stranded in "previous" versions of decal. You have to run different versions, to run different plugins.
getting kinda cornfusing
But Thanks for the hard work....didn't want to forget that
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Drakier
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Subject:
New Decal Version
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Beezamen: since decal isn't really meant for end-users right now, that shouldn't matter.
As was pointed out on the ACDev forums, if you're not running the latest versions of alpha, then you aren't assisting the decal developers. That isn't to say that some of the plugin developers don't feel differently... although they should be developing for the latest version of decal.
The only one I'm publically aware of that wasn't developed for Alpha 4 was ELTank because of the busted HUD rendering code, and that is acceptible. However, developers shouldn't allow plugins to be downloaded and used for older versions if they write a version for newer Decals. Gouru removes all traces of his plugins when he upgrades and he asks that people do not mirror or allow downloads of older versions because they are unsupported.
the confusion is in that people are trying to "play" with Decal which is in a very fluidic alpha stage. The different versions of plugins for Decal are mainly because of the interface changes which won't allow older versions to work with it. Once Decal hits Beta, all of those changes should have been made, and plugins should be able to be used across Decal versions. It shouldn't be like it currently is where certain plugins will not work AT ALL with newer versions of Decal.
Decal is not in a "playable" state. It's in Alpha TESTING, and only the latest versions are supported.
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Myrdhyn
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New Decal Version
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Yea... don't run decal, but if you run decal only run the latest to help, but don't report problems because we wont help as your a end user, rinse and repeat.
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Drakier
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Subject:
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That's not completely true.
(although partially is)
The thing we WANT is people posting singular issues and requests with the appropriate information to the appropriate place.
This is usually not done properly by someone who is considered an "end-user"
what we DON'T want is people testing making new threads about known issues, complaining, asking for support with inaccurate or incomplete problems and generally just causing problems and delays with the Decal Devs.
There is certainly something to be said for accurate and complete bug reports. There were a lot of bugs found in the first stages of alpha through public distribution. But for every GOOD report, there were 10 bad ones. Sifting through those 10 bad ones to find the one good one was a waste of time, and lead to a LOT of frustration.
So that is why I said it's not completely true, but at the same time is.
"End-Users" shouldn't be looking for support in Decal until late beta and release.
"Testers" can look for support at the next phase of alpha unless otherwise specified in the announcement thread.
and legitimate "plugin developers" can always look for support.
It's a tiered system. Plugin Devs are at the top, followed by Tester (Computer Professionals), followed by End-Users.
If you think you can create proper bug reports, and don't need someone to hold you hand to get Decal to work, then you might be able to upgrade yourself to a Tester from an End-User. Only time and posts will tell. Just be aware that at any time based on your bug reports, it is possible you can be degraded to an end-user.
(when I say "You" I mean anyone reading this.. no particular "You" I am talking to. Just a general statement for self thought)
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driazen
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New Decal Version
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I came so close to copy pasting 90% of that statement and putting it into an annonymous email to our entire Cs and Qa staff here at work.
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Arch_Magi
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Subject:
New Decal Version
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JFC, here we go again.
Tell you guys what. I'm going to make a "End Users Decal Support" section on my forums board. I'm also going to host versions of the software that are WORKING (even if certain people say don't use them).
Everyone EXCEPT certain Decal Devs will be invited to go there and ask for support. This will be a place were "unofficial" versions will be supported by USERS and NO OFFICIAL support will be offered.
I really am growing sick of the "Please stop using Alpha 3, because it doesn't help us to debug Alpha 4 and oh, BTW, you shouldn't be using any Alpha version anyway." posts.
Also, you will be free to ask for an ETA, and guess what, the authors will be free to ignore your requests.
There, problem solved. Now all I have to do is wait for my ISP to fix the mySQL server.
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Drakier
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Subject:
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driazen: it's the truth, isn't it? *grins*
It's hard for outsiders to understand. That much is obvious. From someone who has an insider perspective, things seem a bit different.
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Virindi-Inquisitor
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Subject:
New Decal Version
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<<JFC, here we go again.>>
It gets more refined every time...
The current version of Decal is 'use at your own risk'. If it works, great. If it doesn't, the developers don't care: they've probably already fixed your problem in one of the numerous later versions. I always thought 'support' was a bit of a misnomer for free software such as Decal. Decal isn't written by a company trying to produce a product, it's written by a few guys in their free time. That means that they have no obligations to you with respect to it. If they abandon it it's our problem; either someone else will make one or a lot of people will quit AC. It's not their problem.
'Public Alpha' means 'we don't want people complaining about it'. They've stated that if you want to use it, you're free to do so, but they don't want to deal with problems. Let's just go along with them on this.
Edit: Yes, what most people want is the following working combination:
Decal A3:
http://forums.acdev.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3388
Eltank:
http://rathgar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/tank.htm
-OR-
LifetankX:
http://www.reality.net/ac/xx/
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Arch_Magi
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Subject:
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Virindi-Inquisitor posted:
<<JFC, here we go again.>>
It gets more refined every time...
The current version of Decal is 'use at your own risk'. If it works, great. If it doesn't, the developers don't care: they've probably already fixed your problem in one of the numerous later versions. I always thought 'support' was a bit of a misnomer for free software such as Decal. Decal isn't written by a company trying to produce a product, it's written by a few guys in their free time. That means that they have no obligations to you with respect to it. If they abandon it it's our problem; either someone else will make one or a lot of people will quit AC. It's not their problem.
'Public Alpha' means 'we don't want people complaining about it'. They've stated that if you want to use it, you're free to do so, but they don't want to deal with problems. Let's just go along with them on this.
Devs ARE free to NOT to answer any question they don't want to. What is getting "old" is the "lecture" that we get when ever END USERS try to help EACH OTHER.
Everyone knows there is no "official support" for Alpha versions. Everyone knows where to go to get "official support". What is retarded is that non-Moderators on this board are DICTATING to other users what we can and can not talk to each other about on the subject of plugins.
Sure the Devs are sick of answering the same questions over and over again. SO STOP ANSWERING THEM, but STOP with the damn "moral" lectures, "we don't support it here" lectures, etc.
BTW, is it "Christmas" yet?
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AvatorLC
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Just 15 shopping days left.
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Ashake
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Subject:
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Arch, do you post on boards specifically to annoy the heck out of everyone? With the knowledge you allege to have, you could be so much more helpful using that knowledge in a constructive fashion, rather than trying to constantly tear things to bits ... just my opinion 
Three or four times daily I get questions from people in and out of my allegiance about Decal. Everything from "I've downloaded Decal, why won't XXXX (plugin) work?" ... to "Well, I got Tank, and got Decal, why won't they work" ... Know what? I'll be really honest, I try hard to help others and advise when I can, but I get REAL tired of people expecting me to take up my time ingame trying to "fix" a problem they should not be having in the first place!
It is hard enough to troubleshoot systems when they're in front of you, with the ability to see EXACTLY what you're working on and with. At least DOUBLE that for a system that not only is not in front of you, but you're most likely dealing with someone who does not know a file from a directory (this is not a put-down, it is merely stating fact). Am I running Decal? Yes I am. Am I running plugins in beta test? Yes I am. Do I know how to "fix" my system if something goes awry? Yes I do. When one of my people asks me if Decal is "up" yet, I answer honestly, "Yes, it is, BUT it is still in alpha test, which means if you can't straighten out your system if it goes nuts, don't use it." When they come back later with the 2nd statement above (about Tank), I politely inform them that an inability to read the plugin author's site to see what their requirements are tells me they should not be running Decal yet. Sure, some get a little "huffy" about it ...
The bottom line is that Decal IS in test mode ... and there are many problems associated with test modes of anything. Encouraging those who don't know what they're doing to download and run a test version of something is not providing any service to these people ... it merely provides more upset and stress. Please Arch, use this knowledge you appear to have to help - not agitate
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Arch_Magi
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Subject:
New Decal Version
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Ashake posted:
The bottom line is that Decal IS in test mode ... and there are many problems associated with test modes of anything. Encouraging those who don't know what they're doing to download and run a test version of something is not providing any service to these people ... it merely provides more upset and stress. Please Arch, use this knowledge you appear to have to help - not agitate
OMG, Decal is in Alpha mode? OMG, I never knew that.
/sarcasm off
Yeah, I help people all the time with Decal, router, Plugins alot. I am one of the resident "Techies" in my guild and offer up help when I can on the HG boards.
I know that doing support "remotely" is a pain, I do it 9 to 5 for a living.
As for not knowing what I'm doing by encouraging people to download WORKING software (at least for 90% of the people who are using it), that is a laugh. Sure it may not be the final product, but it does work, and with a little help from USERS, it will most likely work for others as well.
I help USERS. Devs don't need my help (or more to the point, they don't want my help).
I think you will see that when I help an END USER who asks a question, I try to provide a clear and to the point answer ... without the morals or lecture.
As for agitating people, I only agitate people who offer up their morals or lecture. As in this case, I posted "after the fact". It's true that I give as good as I get, I rarely start it, but I'm not afraid to finish it.
Case in point ... http://vnboards.ign.com/ac_utilities/b5432/93598879/ ... I make a stupid typo, then the wolves set in.
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Drakier
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and you're compounding the issue.
you're helping people that quite honestly should NOT be helped in this stage.
the people you are helping to get Decal "Working" should most likely not be using it. They expect some sort of support for it where there is none for them.
We have a "User 2 User" support board on the ACDev forums specifically for that reason. It's so that users can help other users who are having issues without the Devs flaming them. We let the users handle the support for that. Does it compound the problem? Yes.
I also understand that many people WANT to run Decal. If they can get it to work, more power to them. I wasn't lecturing or giving any moral speech. My first post to Beezamen was to clarify the "problem" as being a confusion due to people not knowing what they are doing. My second post was attempting to clear up the "support issue" in that while we provide some support it is VERY limited.
I wasn't starting anything, or attempting to lecture or talk down to anyone. Someone said something which seemed to me to be inaccurate. I felt it needed clarification. So that's what I did.
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Arch_Magi
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Subject:
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Drakier posted:
and you're compounding the issue.
you're helping people that quite honestly should NOT be helped in this stage.
the people you are helping to get Decal "Working" should most likely not be using it. They expect some sort of support for it where there is none for them.
No, getting Decal "working" isn't my job (or even hobby), getting Decal in a "playable state by answering simple questions without being judgemental" is my hobby. Getting Decal "working" is your "job" or "hobby".
Actually, they don't EXPECT some sort of support. Also, they don't EXPECT a lecture. What they would LIKE is some help and no lecture.
As is said dozens of time before, if you want SUPPORT, go to the Decal SUPPORT page, if they want help getting what is working for thousands of other people (going by one of the Devs comments about the number of "tens of thousands" of unique downloads).
Drake, you are under ZERO obligation to help anyone. Nor am I. If I don't want to "answer a question", I don't. I guess you lack self control.
Drakier posted:
As was pointed out on the ACDev forums, if you're not running the latest versions of alpha, then you aren't assisting the decal developers.
Maybe he already knows that, maybe he doesn't WANT to help out the Devs, maybe he just wants to get the plugins running and play with it, maybe if he wants to help the Devs he would go the the proper forum and offer his assistance. Has that thought ever crossed your mind?
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Drakier
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I'm not going to argue with you because there is nothing to argue about.
You're wrong.
I wasn't lecturing or dictating morals.
That's as far as it needs to go. Done.
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