MT_Gouru
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[Locked flaming/trolling]
"MT_Gouru,
I know that you were the origianl poster on this thread and with all due respect to Drakier but if you say something is dead then until we hear "from the horses mouth" that decal is back on I am not sure who's posts I should be reading. You posted that all work on Decal had been stopped due to the change in the COC which has now been reverted. After Ibn posted on this thread that that change was comming and when it did in fact happen 2 days later I am sure that you should have posted a quick note "Decal is being worked on again". And I am sure that most of the Decal useres would sit and wait till it was pronuced DONE and ready.....If it take 2 weeks or 2 months.
"
First...where did I ever say that all work on Decal has stopped? Do you just read titles and not the content? Did the reference I make to a 'joke post' go right over your head?
When I stated that Einstein alone was enough reason for me to keep fighting for Decal, did you think it was some other Decal I was referring to? Or that I could possibly fight for something while killing it?
My statements were clear to ANYBODY that would take the time to read them.
(restarting thread cuz I started last one)
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Arch_Magi
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Date Posted: 7/19 1:05pm Subject: Decal is now dead
With the change in CoC all unattended play (not just combat) is now forbidden. This includes tradebots, craftbots, tinkbots, buffbots, and virtually any other kind of bot you can think of. (well...technically, standing unattended with no 3rd party utilites loaded in one place doing absolutely nothing is still legal)
However, according to Ibn, they are not changing their enforcement standards, which based on past performance would mean to me that if a particular envoy on a particular day decides to enforce some part of the CoC, you will be banned.
They spent quite a bit of time crafting their old CoC to help clarify what is and isn't legal. The good news is the new one is very clear. The bad news is that most uses of Decal are now against the CoC.
Removing the functionality that makes botting possible also removes all the functionality required for proper use of Decal, and as best I can tell, anything we do will be against the CoC.
Not wanting to put our toons at risk. Decal is now officially dead.
p.s....
I haven't decided if this is a joke post or not yet....
That is your post. YOU said it was dead. (Note: You said OFFICIALLY dead. To some people, that implies that you are speaking for the other Devs.) YOU said you didn't know if that was a joke or not. So how in the frell are we supposed to know?
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MT_Gouru
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Ummmm....cuz later that day I told people why I named it that and what the purpose of the thread was? Could that possibly be how I expected people to know?
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Tiviee
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why is this trouble maker allowed to keep posting?
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_boneyard_
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<< why is this trouble maker allowed to keep posting? >>
which one? 
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Arch_Magi
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_boneyard_ posted:
<< why is this trouble maker allowed to keep posting? >>
which one?
Exactly.
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MagikBrute
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MT_Gouru posted:
"MT_Gouru,
First...where did I ever say that all work on Decal has stopped? Do you just read titles and not the content? Did the reference I make to a 'joke post' go right over your head?
You said "I have not decided if this is a joke or not." Meaning that is the truth until otherwise spoken by you.
MT_Gouru posted:
"
When I stated that Einstein alone was enough reason for me to keep fighting for Decal, did you think it was some other Decal I was referring to? Or that I could possibly fight for something while killing it?"
Post on a seprate thread and today no less.
MT_Gouru posted:
"
My statements were clear to ANYBODY that would take the time to read them.
But only when you actaully post them and not expecting us to be mind readers.
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KilleanMT
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See.. I was all excited at the title.. and now I'm dissappointed...
*sniffle*
I wasn't confused though if that helps.
How about we just wait until they get it updated and when they don't have a heavy workload then you guys can ***** and moan to your heart's content.
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Drakier
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Killean: there is now an official thread in the list of Stickies... it's the top one I believe.
that is the no-hassle decal status thread.
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MT_Gouru
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Magik...
I suggest you give up, you're not even close to Magi in effectiveness.
The Einstein remark is quote of MYSELF from the original thread. It does not require mind-reading, just simple everyday reading. Try it sometime.
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Arch_Magi
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MT_Gouru posted:
Magik...
I suggest you give up, you're not even close to Magi in effectiveness.
The Einstein remark is quote of MYSELF from the original thread. It does not require mind-reading, just simple everyday reading. Try it sometime.
================================
I hope that decal and Eltank live as long as AC itself. They make a great TEAM!
=================================
Boy, if I was undecided before...this post could push me right over the edge.
Opps, that wasn't the one was it? Cause knowing your utter hate of ElTank, we all know which way that would have "pushed you".
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MT_Gouru
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/me suggests you double check the definition of 'could' and how it differs from 'would'
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Sweet_Seed
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MT_Gouru...don't mind them. Your doing a great job! We all miss Decal and want it back as soon as you get it back. Im sure if people kept reading the threads they would know that decal is NOT dead!
Good Luck! 
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Arch_Magi
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MT_Gouru posted:
/me suggests you double check the definition of 'could' and how it differs from 'would'
Main Entry: 1can
Pronunciation: k&n, 'kan
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): past could /k&d, 'kud/; present singular & plural can
Etymology: Middle English (1st & 3d sing. present indic.), from Old English; akin to Old High German kan (1st & 3d singular present indicative) know, am able, Old English cnAwan to know -- more at KNOW
transitive senses
1 obsolete : KNOW, UNDERSTAND
2 archaic : to be able to do, make, or accomplish
intransitive senses, archaic : to have knowledge or skill
verbal auxiliary
1 a : know how to <she can read> b : be physically or mentally able to <he can lift 200 pounds> c -- used to indicate possibility <do you think he can still be alive> <those things can happen> -- sometimes used interchangeably with may d : be permitted by conscience or feeling to <can hardly blame her> e : be made possible or probable by circumstances to <he can hardly have meant that> f : be inherently able or designed to <everything that money can buy> g : be logically or axiologically able to <2 + 2 can also be written 3 + 1> h : be enabled by law, agreement, or custom to
Yup, still applies. Since you are assuming that everyone knows (or even cares) what you know, people have to take you at your word. Oh well, their mistake, since apparently your word isn't any good.
I'm done, time to play the game. Enjoy beating your chest. Good luck on trying to backpeddle to save face.
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-Logan_Conrad-
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/e goes to the fridge and gets Gouru several drinks of his choice.
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MT_Gouru
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could (kʊd)
aux.v., Past tense of can
1. Used to indicate ability or permission in the past: I could run faster then. Only men could go to the club in those days.
2. Used with hypothetical or conditional force: If we could help, we would.
3. Used to indicate tentativeness or politeness: I could be wrong. Could you come over here?
1 doesn't apply since it was not about the past. 2 and 3 are both about hypothetical, conditional or tentaveness.
I am somehow missing the definition that somehow makes it mean that Decal had been dropped, or that I would drop it. Which makes it hard to comprehend what your post is trying to say, especially with it's reference to my reply to Magik's post.
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The_Korrigan
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Tiviee posted on 7/25/05 3:55pm
why is this trouble maker allowed to keep posting?
Very funny
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Maddy_ACEDL
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That would be Captain Morgan's Private Stock Logan. 
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-Logan_Conrad-
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Ok, thanks Maddy!
/e makes mental note to stock fridge just in case Gouru ever comes to my town.
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Arch_Magi
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MT_Gouru posted:
I am somehow missing the definition that somehow makes it mean that Decal had been dropped, or that I would drop it. Which makes it hard to comprehend what your post is trying to say, especially with it's reference to my reply to Magik's post.
Brush up on reading comprehension. I wasn't using his post to show that "somehow makes it mean that Decal had been dropped ..." for that I use your own words ... " Not wanting to put our toons at risk. Decal is now officially dead."
The other post was just showing your utter dislike for ElTank and that as posted, or at least implied, that if you were still "on the fence" and that any association with ElTank would most likely make you descide to not continue.
You had a "Waaaa" moment, you came here and whined, then it passed. It happens to all of us. You just seem to have a hard time admitting it.
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crackerware
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I'd like to see half of the people complaining about the time it takes to find memlocs try to scan through hundreds of lines of hexidecimal code in res memory to find the right one. Like finding a needle in a hay stack.
<<<CRACKERWARE>>>
Former Eq trainer creator.
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MT_Gouru
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Just out of curiousity, was that 'still on the fence' post you are referring to (the El Tank one) before or after the clarification post I made?
And perhaps you could clear up the connection between my reply to Magik which you quoted, and my El Tank reply? I'm not quite following that.
PS...for those that may have accidentally clicked the wrong thread...See the forum stick for current official status.
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Arch_Magi
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*yawn*
I grow tried of explaining everything to you. Use that awesome intellect of yours and figure it out.
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Arch_Magi
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crackerware posted:
I'd like to see half of the people complaining about the time it takes to find memlocs try to scan through hundreds of lines of hexidecimal code in res memory to find the right one. Like finding a needle in a hay stack.
Nope, don't see a single person commenting on how long it is taking the Devs to figure out how to get it going on this thread.
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Maddy_ACEDL
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Of course Arch in that very fist post you read the very last line, the one that said " I haven't decided if this is a joke post or not yet.... " Reading that kind of tells me they, or at least Gouru, hasn't decided what to do yet.
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Arch_Magi
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Maddy_ACEDL posted:
Of course Arch in that very fist post you read the very last line, the one that said " I haven't decided if this is a joke post or not yet.... " Reading that kind of tells me they, or at least Gouru, hasn't decided what to do yet.
Exactly my point.
Oh well, WW made an Official post, Desi made it a sticky, and someone other than Gouru posted the status of Decal on it (with the answer that prompted this "back and forth" spelled out). That is all that some were asking for.
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MT_Gouru
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Hehe, afraid to answer when my "on the fence" post was in relation to my post that I would fight for Decal and my explanation of the title and threads purpose? I suppose *yawning* is one way to pretend to win a debate.
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Woot it is an old fashion wizzing contest.....keep the stream going.
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MT_Gouru
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Just posted an update to the official Decal status thread.
Feel free to talk about it here. Do NOT talk about it on the sticky thread.
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Purl
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Mt_Gouru, Just read your post on the sticky update thread. I love it when a man talks all technical and stuff *giggle*
Keep up the good work everyone (this is my first and probably last such post, but I just had to say how much I appreciate your efforts)
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Imperil
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It's funny watching game hackers preach to the cheating masses  Imagine you guys had spent your time developing something productive? You could have built a game by now eh bud? Instead you guys are sitting around with a broken old hack with a following of a few hundred cheaters waiting to get the macros back lol.
Ah well.. you guys didn't have the talent to build a game but you sure destroyed the population of one, so you got me there lol Good luck on the memlocs!
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Drakier
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Imperil: there is no need for that.
It is what it is. Decal is a BENEFICIAL part of the game.. you don't like it, you don't use it.
Don't try to make everyone else suffer because you're unhappy. You can see from the poll on this forum that a LOT of people use Decal for perfectly legitimate uses.
Technically, the Decal Code of Ethics goes against any form of "cheating", so I'm not sure what you're even trying to portray about Decal or its developers.
As I said.. don't like it, then don't use it. And since this is an AC Utilities forum, if you don't like the AC Utilities, then maybe you shouldn't be hanging around here.
Also... Decal didn't ruin the game. Overall, it extended the life of the game for a LOT of people. Certain plugins may have helped turn the game into more of what it is now, but do you honestly believe that AC would be alive today WITHOUT Decal?
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Arch_Magi
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^
Bingo
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Imperil
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Sorry clicked the wrong forum and got a good laugh, my bad. I do respect you guys as developers, just don't understand why you couldn't put it towards something real.
If I make an aimbot for Half Life 2, distribute it, but contain a usage statement saying that you should not be using this for online play.. does it mean it's not a cheat anymore?
You can easily refer to the AC population graphs and when certain macro programs became quite widespread, it tells the story plainly. Sorry I'm just a little bitter... instead of making something great you guys brutalized a great game. There are still a couple hundred cheaters out there left on the servers though, so by all means get this thing working lol.
EDIT: "Also... Decal didn't ruin the game. Overall, it extended the life of the game for a LOT of people. Certain plugins may have helped turn the game into more of what it is now, but do you honestly believe that AC would be alive today WITHOUT Decal?"
- If you honestly believe that yourself.. than I take back saying I respect the developers on the team. I mean it is quite easy to see when the population died, it was when the cheats were allowed to come out and be semi-legal. Would AC be alive? .. Would UO? .. actually yes UO would.. and it wouldn't have lost over 80% of it's playerbase because of cheats. If you can't see when the population decline happened in AC, than you sir need to put away your IDE and take stats class.
But hey.. this is my last post here, my bad, wrong board. You guys can believe it all you want.. just please please please keep hacking the crap out of this game, I would hate to see more get ruined.
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Maddy_ACEDL
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<< Sorry clicked the wrong forum and got a good laugh, my bad. I do respect you guys as developers, just don't understand why you couldn't put it towards something real. >>
Do you know what any of them do for a living? Maybe they like this as a hobby as a way to relax.
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Imperil
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" Do you know what any of them do for a living? Maybe they like this as a hobby as a way to relax. "
- Not these guys, but I did know a couple of them and what they did, we talked regularly. A lot of them are hobby developers, VB kiddies, web developers, etc.
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Drakier
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I don't think AC would be around right now WITHOUT Decal. I think a lot of functionality would not be in the game. I think a lot of people would have gotten bored and left a LONG time ago.
Then again, it's hard to say because Decal IS a part of this game. As for your "respect" comment, you can respect whomever you want. I don't NEED your respect to feel better about myself. I feel good about myself just providing the services I do. Whether you use them or not, or like them or not, or even respect them or not, those are all your decisions. Just wanted to let you know that I wouldn't be losing any sleep over it.
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Imperil
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"I don't think AC would be around right now WITHOUT Decal."
- Than you sir are too full of yourself, because if you look at the population graph and even just history you can easily tell when AC declined.. I don't have to tell you that.
EDIT: btw I don't have to say this, but you guys are really good developers. I just don't see why you aren't working in the industry helping us to build great things rather than just building hacks.
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Drakier
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You're comparing 2 different things.. you're comparing the population drop to when COMBAT MACROS were released... not when Decal itself was released.. which was a LONG time before ELTank or other combat macros were released.. also.. you'll also notice that if you check the graphs yourself (which aren't overly accurate) they don't show the decline when ELTank was released, but actually quite a bit AFTER ELTank was released.
I dislike Combat Macros as much as the next guy, but you can't look at Decal overall and just generalize as a "Combat Macro".. that is very ignorant.
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Imperil
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My bad, I know I shouldn't totally generalize. Turbine just never should have allowed third party hacks because even though Decal has so much more functionality, and things that realistically 'should' be built into the game.. it is all shadowed by the macros and cheats.
Hey I wrote one of the first tank macros waaaaay before ElTank branching off one of Akilla's drain plugins.. so yeah I know how long it has been around. I also realized how I was breaking the game for other people and stopped development on the plugin.. although I knew somebody would write one and put it out there.
At least the majority of games out now and games in the future have seen what third party games do to an MMO and the companies reputation with the players... it looks like AC1 is the last of it's genre, the MMO with allowed cheats (or plugins, whatever you would rather me call them).
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Drakier
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They probably shouldn't have... but if you've been following the ToD release, you'd know that if there is NO hope of Decal getting revived, the game is dead for a LOT of people... I don't mean just a few people here or there.. I mean a SIGNIFICANT amount of people.
If we were to call Decal dead right now, and that we were just going to drop it and go, then there would be some issues with AC. I'm sure Turbine would scramble to get something thrown together, but I already know based on the many forum posts I've read, that if Decal is gone, so are a lot of users.
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Imperil
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"but I already know based on the many forum posts I've read, that if Decal is gone, so are a lot of users. "
- You are 100% correct sir. If Decal dies now than so does the game. Unfortunately the majority of the playerbase uses these cheats now as the legitimate players are playing other games or doing something else.
So yes I do agree with you. I've read the glorious posts of 'kill decal and 100,000 users will kick down the door' posts and chuckled myself I mean.. it 'did' ruin the game, and at this point in time it is needed to keep the game alive.
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Dark_Schneidr
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how are you a "legitimate player"?
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W-O-L-F
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Imperil posted:
" Do you know what any of them do for a living? Maybe they like this as a hobby as a way to relax. "
- Not these guys, but I did know a couple of them and what they did, we talked regularly. A lot of them are hobby developers, VB kiddies, web developers, etc.
Personally, I wouldn't call Gouru or Mekle any of the above. I haven't met either of them in person, but I know what they do, and it definately doesn't fall into any of those categories. I'm not sure what Drakier does for a living, but judging from the things he has put out, and the level of support he does for them, I doubt he would fall into them either. As for Haz and Arkayas, both of them have put out some pretty nice plugins as well as filters that a good majority of other plugins rely on in addition to core decal items. I'm sure I have missed some other ones, but it would be nice if you would at least know what you are talking about before the drivel is unleased on the public.
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Arch_Magi
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Imperil posted:
Sorry clicked the wrong forum and got a good laugh, my bad. I do respect you guys as developers, just don't understand why you couldn't put it towards something real.
If I make an aimbot for Half Life 2, distribute it, but contain a usage statement saying that you should not be using this for online play.. does it mean it's not a cheat anymore?
Last time I checked, Decal doesn't do anything except provide a programming interface to other TPAs. Maybe you have a beef with certain TPAs, but not Decal Devs.
Your analogy is like blaming the inventors of Modern Phsysics because someone used that to build a nuclear bomb.
Place the blame where it belongs, or at least at the feet of the people who wrote the "bad" TPA.
But if you really want to place blame in the right place, blame the people that use them, for just like a nuclear bomb, it is only a problem when it is improperly used.
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Imperil
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"how are you a "legitimate player"?
- Going by what 99% of online gamers categorize cheaters/players as. You can say it all you want but go post on the message board for ANY other game but AC1 about decal-like hacks such as aimbots, etc. And tell me what the community thinks of you. AC's 20,000 or so cheaters are the vast minority in the online gaming community, no need to try and lecture me on wording.
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Imperil
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" Your analogy is like blaming the inventors of Modern Phsysics because someone used that to build a nuclear bomb."
- No it's not actually. Quite honestly the majority of plugin developers are lucky they can even hack some of the crap source together in VB that I've seen. Without some of the lead developers there never would have been this mass amount of cheats.
It's cool though, I mean all other games have this type of crap banned.
And you really showed you intelligence by comparing third party hacks in an online video game to nuclear warfare.. brilliant
Look I know you guys won't change your opinions.. you are cheaters.. and even worse some of you are cheaters than have trained yourself to think you are playing the game legitimately and actually believe it.
Just stop posting on the subject and I'll go away, that's a promise.
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Dark_Schneidr
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I'll go post on them, and I seriously won't CARE what the response is.
Get a life, let people play how they want to, because, in essence, you owe each and every one of THEM (Including decal users) for still HAVING A GAME TO PLAY.
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Imperil
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"I'll go post on them, and I seriously won't CARE what the response is."
- Right.. most cheaters don't. I mean if you log onto an FPS to play and some kid has an aim-bot.. do you really think he cares what you think of him?
"you owe each and every one of THEM (Including decal users) for still HAVING A GAME TO PLAY."
- lol I owe them for having a game to play? You mean I owe them for destroying the game that I did like to play right?
As I said in the last thread: Just stop posting on the subject and I'll go away, that's a promise. I learned my lesson not to click on this board again lol.
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Dark_Schneidr
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why don't you ask Turbine what their Official Stance is on the subject? I'm absolutely positive they'll say DECAL kept this game alive.
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Asper_TD
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To digress slightly from the subject at hand...
MT_Gouru: "It also does not show current memloc status."
What is the current memloc status, if I might ask?
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Imperil
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"why don't you ask Turbine what their Official Stance is on the subject? I'm absolutely positive they'll say DECAL kept this game alive."
- hilarious
The reason it's funny is because there are actually quite a few developers at Turbine that rabidly hate the hacking. Sure there are actually some that like it (mostly the ex-VB hackers themselves), but don't think it's a majority.
Even ask the Decal team, because they know 100% what I'm talking about and wouldn't dare make a stupid quote like the above.
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Dark_Schneidr
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the numbers don't lie man, whatever you want to believe. The numbers speak for themselves.
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Drakier
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Imperil: you're still doing it.
Stop calling the Plugins and Plugin Devs as Decal and Decal Devs...
we are TOTALLY separate things. Sure some of the Decal Devs are also Plugin Devs, but they are not the same thing. A Plugin is an application which "Plugs In" to Decal which is the API framework. Decal only exposes certain aspects of the AC Client and Network. It also renders onscreen to make things easier.
Sounds to me like you're complaining about the Plugin-Devs and how some of them cannot code. But don't start claiming anything for the Decal Devs (Decal Core). ALL of the developers of Decal are very good programmers. A few of them do programming professionally in some aspect.
Once again.. start replacing the word "Decal" with the word "Plugin" as you as bashing people. At least you'd be slightly more accurate.
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Imperil
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"the numbers don't lie man, whatever you want to believe. The numbers speak for themselves. "
- Oh I totally believe you, numbers and stats are the only thing to base something on. Which is why the population graph shows why after a month or so after a certain macro plugin became massively used and widespread the games population went on an almost 90 degree downards line.
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really ? show me this ? You're full of it.
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Drakier
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Quote Imperil:
=====================
The reason it's funny is because there are actually quite a few developers at Turbine that rabidly hate the hacking. Sure there are actually some that like it (mostly the ex-VB hackers themselves), but don't think it's a majority.
=====================
Which AC devs have YOU been talking to, because I'd sure love to talk to them about their position on Decal... on the contrary, I actually HAVE talked to the AC Devs about their position on Decal. While it isn't my place to discuss it, lets just say that I'd be VERY interested to see who you have been talking to.
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Imperil
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"ALL of the developers of Decal are very good programmers. A few of them do programming professionally in some aspect. "
- Which is why in my post I said that I do respect the core developers. I mean I have went through the whole source and wrote specific plugins for myself and friends waaaaay back in the day.. and yes I do realize that I myself contributed to ruining the game, even though it was on a small scale.
Unfortunately you can't seperate Decal from the plugins. You know yourself Drakier that without real developers writing the core decal framework the majority of these VB hackers couldn't have botched the game this bad.
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Imperil
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"Which AC devs have YOU been talking to, because I'd sure love to talk to them about their position on Decal... on the contrary, I actually HAVE talked to the AC Devs about their position on Decal. While it isn't my place to discuss it, lets just say that I'd be VERY interested to see who you have been talking to."
- Well ok they aren't AC developers, my bad, they are now onto the new projects. I should make myself more clear next time and I apologize. Come to the austin games conference in a couple months and you can personally find out.
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Drakier
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I'm still not aware of any of the Turbine developers who are Rabidly against Decal. In fact.. I think at the WORST, they are merely impartial to it.
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Dark_Schneidr
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lol, this guy is so full of crap it's almost... ALMOST amusing.
Where are the mods to ban people when you need them? :P
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I hate the minority that has to always yell the loudest, so their point seem important.
Decal is made by people asking nothing in return, and have spent considerable amounts of time toward a goal they believe enriches a GAME.
Pls go bother other people and let us find fun in this game. Decal for many = fun. You disagree, then don't use it.
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Imperil
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"I'm still not aware of any of the Turbine developers who are Rabidly against Decal. In fact.. I think at the WORST, they are merely impartial to it."
- Than you haven't talked to some that are 'impartial' to it. I mean comon, I'm not denying at all that certain developers on the team loved the application itself.
Like I said, if it's possible come to Austin, I'll shake your hand myself and call you a good developer and we can chat.
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Imperil
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"lol, this guy is so full of crap it's almost... ALMOST amusing. "
- You haven't disproved me yet, please do so.
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Sin_Zwang
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note:
If decal dies, so will I....
case in point, I vote AC goes back old school and visits old template..
Favor the old AC over ToD..
Listen here.. I'm in favor of playing ac with bs/2 and the likes.. id love tank, but not required. however...
Id contribue seriously to decal if it worked..
If it dont work.. Id spend my money saying AC STFU without decal u missed the boat.
I'd blame Turbine. For non cooperating with the decal devs.
I'll say one more thing.
To give the thought that AC with Decal would still survive in TOD. Is at best wishes ppl will buy their TOD $10 pre-order and the $29.99 update. I feel ripped off? dunno yet, U?
nuff said
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Oh and Imperil. the maker of the first portal bot (Zycra) is now gainfully employed by turbine.
If they didn;t like decal, why hire a dev?
edit: sorry Zycra, I'm miserable at spelling
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Imperil
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"Oh and Imperil. the maker of the first portal bot (Zycra) is now gainfully employed by turbine."
- Did you miss my statement about ex VB script kiddies being hired on? It is a very smart move by a company to hire people that already understand their protocol. I'd hire a hacker too if they knew the system, it's called good business.
And NOWHERE did I say all of Turbine hates Decal or anything along those lines, I just know a few developers that 'have' been on the team that hate it royally.
Also 'Lycra' (hehe) is not the only person just fyi.
EDIT:
Anyways I'm off this thread out of respect for Drakier, so say whatever you want about me I won't reply
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YerpaRox
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Imperil posted on 7/25/05 6:01pm
My bad, I know I shouldn't totally generalize. Turbine just never should have allowed third party hacks because even though Decal has so much more functionality, and things that realistically 'should' be built into the game.. it is all shadowed by the macros and cheats.
Hey I wrote one of the first tank macros waaaaay before ElTank branching off one of Akilla's drain plugins.. so yeah I know how long it has been around. I also realized how I was breaking the game for other people and stopped development on the plugin.. although I knew somebody would write one and put it out there.
At least the majority of games out now and games in the future have seen what third party games do to an MMO and the companies reputation with the players... it looks like AC1 is the last of it's genre, the MMO with allowed cheats (or plugins, whatever you would rather me call them).
lol ever hear of Ultima online?
look up Easy UO on the internet
look up UOAssist
every mmo there is has 3rd party utilities for the overly mundame things. UO has a bulk order deed (BOD) system that has a blacksmith or tailor create items/clothing etc and sell them back to the npc for money/rewards. There is a 6 hour timer on these. I, alomg with most of the other players, use macros for this perpose to collect these ig items. Macro logs in the account and whichever char,chars has the skills for the items needed, they portal to the blacksmith shop or the tailor and collect the bods, then log out, and repeat every 6 hours.
UO assist does most of the same things that decal plugins can do. tracks mobs, loot, locations, etc and allows you to "Play" the game instead of pound on the keyboard.
fyi UOASSIST is a paid service. 15$ registration(I would do this with decal) and the game developers
support it fully. also fyi the games player base tripled when uoassist and easyuo became supported by the game designers.
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MT_Gouru
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So...
nobody is impressed with our progress?
*cry*
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TimtheBm
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so gouru how long do u think itll take for decal and el tank to be back up and running ?
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Dark_dealer
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I am GourU 
You all are rocking. MANY MANY Thanks for all your hard work. Peeps just need to be a bit more patient is all. You all have always come through. Keep up the good work.
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MT_Gouru
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Tim, I think it's safe to say Decal will be up by Christmas. As for El Stank, you'll need to ask Elgar.
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Weyfarere
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So...
nobody is impressed with our progress?
*cry*
I'm glad there's progress...
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Novotny
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ETA: When we're done....
LOL
And Imperil is an I followed by di followed by ot.
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Inoki_Shouan
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Even though I do not understand what you are talking about in any way as it relates to where you are / where you are going, It is nice to see a SS of the decal bar, which tells a simpleton like me that progress is made.
Great JoB, and thanks!
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Imperil
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" And Imperial is an I followed by di followed by ot. "
- lol I know! Imperial is such an idiot!
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Bearforce1
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I for one am axcited as hell to see that Decal is up on the screen of a ToD screenshot even if it isn't functioning code as yet. Shows the dedication of these guys and how much they're appreciated by us regular folk, not the idignant opposition who do not have a clue what having fun means.
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arboc77
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Drakier, et al,
Thanks for taking the time to post the status update.
Seeing Decal taking shape answers a lot of questions and really diminishes the desire for ETA requests, etc.
FWIW, there's a whole other class of Decal consumers (plugin devs) that are interested in more than just getting back to regular gameplay. We have work to do that will start when there's an Alpha available.
BTW, I have eight plugins, but only one has a transparent HUD. If there was an early release based on rendering opaque rectangles, I'd be able to update and test most of my code. Users could also begin using an interim version to get the bulk of the functionality they were accustomed to.
I'm sure the team has already debated these issues, but for what little it may be worth, I thought I'd express my vote.
Again, thanks, for both the update info AND the effort you're all expending to make Dereth a more fun and interesting place. My hat's off to all of you...
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MT_Gouru
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We could do opaque drawing, but it requires the same amount of code as doing transparent assuming we EVER plan to add that ability. And since that is given, when we have opaque ready, we'll also have transparency.
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MagikBrute
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MT_Gouru posted:
So...
nobody is impressed with our progress?
*cry*
I am impressed. Thank you for keeping us hulldled masses in the loop.
Thank you for all your hard work.
Brute
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Bearforce1
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MT_Gouru posted:
We could do opaque drawing, but it requires the same amount of code as doing transparent assuming we EVER plan to add that ability. And since that is given, when we have opaque ready, we'll also have transparency.
Is that the biggest problem right now? I'm no programmer so while I've read alot about the troubles your having with memlocs and what not, I'm just wondering if that's the biggest hurdle.
Thanks
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hobartbouregarde
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I have never asked for an ETA, BUT it would be prudent to say is it's days, weeks, or months,
Some people will quit until decal is ready. Give them some idea.
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Kallinger
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christmas 
I miss decal
to bad imperil left he was entertaining. condemns the programers for contributing to the downfall of AC cause of macros. then admits he wrote his own macro. when other ppl start using them and ppl complain he suddenly gets a spark of concious and kills his own program even though his harm was only on a "small scale". so it was ok when he did it but WRONG when others did it. interesting.
keep up the good work!!!
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MT_Gouru
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It's part of a class of problem called the 'Graphic Update', basically converting to work with DX9 instead of DX7, while maintaining plugin compatability.
The second class of problem is Memloc finding, we are about half complete there if I remember correctly, at least in terms of numbers. The more difficult ones are left so may take more time. The base graphics object we used for a lot of these does not appear to exist any longer.
And this just in, in our memloc search, we are not spending time required for memlocs that are only used by Windows 9X. For all intense porpoises, Win9X is no longer supported.
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Inoki_Shouan
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I would consider that reasonable Gouru. MS no longer actively supports windows 9x either.
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Morock1
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No No we are impressed, Its just we'd like to know how impressed we should be?
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Nine_Penny
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Won't someone please think of the porpoises?
Thanks for all you, and the other Decal maintainers do.
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Imperil
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"to bad imperil left he was entertaining. condemns the programers for contributing to the downfall of AC cause of macros. then admits he wrote his own macro. when other ppl start using them and ppl complain he suddenly gets a spark of concious and kills his own program even though his harm was only on a "small scale". so it was ok when he did it but WRONG when others did it. interesting."
- Where did I say it was 'ok' when I did it? I cheated and helped kill the playerbase of the game.. it's not something I brag about. And I didn't get a 'spark of conscious', I stopped anything to do with plugins back then because I realized it would destroy the playerbase because there were non-stop threads about it on the boards. I put it to rest early 2002 actually... and another 'public' bot was released a few months later and the game was destroyed and population was lost almost overnight. (well within a few months actually)
I'm just glad it wasn't me that did it.
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Arch_Magi
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Imperil posted:
"how are you a "legitimate player"?
- Going by what 99% of online gamers categorize cheaters/players as. You can say it all you want but go post on the message board for ANY other game but AC1 about decal-like hacks such as aimbots, etc. And tell me what the community thinks of you. AC's 20,000 or so cheaters are the vast minority in the online gaming community, no need to try and lecture me on wording.
Actually, you may want to look here ...
http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=89522227
So if 99% of the people consider it a cheat, how come 67-76% of the people said they'd quit AC if Decal was gone?
Poll Question: If Gouru cancelled the Decal project ...
Total Votes: 184
Current Poll Results:
67% I'd quit AC for good. (124 votes)
9% I'd keep playing, but be looking for another game. (17 votes)
16% I'd jump for joy and keep playing. (31 votes)
1% I'd do a backflip and buy another account. (2 votes)
5% Take a bow -Gol- (10 votes)
You have already voted on this poll.
In case you haven't been following ... http://vnboards.ign.com/AC_Utilities/b5432/89510418/
Even though Ibn has said that the CoC change was a "mistake", Gouru has yet to reply that he is going to keep developing Decal.
As a result, I am not installing ToD until Gouru says that "Decal is a go".
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Imperil
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" Actually, you may want to look here ...
http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=89522227
So if 99% of the people consider it a cheat, how come 67-76% of the people said they'd quit AC if Decal was gone? "
- Please tell me that you really aren't this stupid... please... I said 99% of online gamers.. not 'what is left of AC players'. Go ask on an FPS board if using an aimbot is a cheat? Go ask on the camelot board if using 'radar' is a cheat? Go ask on the Lineage 2 board if using a macro is a cheat? You'll soon find yourself in the VAST minority of online gamers.
I am quite surprised that that poll doesn't show 90-95% in favor of Decal.. I figured it was only the cheaters left with a few die-hards... guess it goes to show that there are still more die-hards holding on than you would expect lol
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Kallinger
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oh ok that clears that up. for a second there I thought you wrote a program that you thought you would find to be benefitial for you that you would enjoy. sorry I didn't realize that you grudgingly made it and regreted it every second during and after till you dropped the program.
I started playing in 2002 so I must have missed that over night population drop. I only noticed a dwindling decline over the past three years to its current state.
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Imperil
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"for a second there I thought you wrote a program that you thought you would find to be benefitial for you that you would enjoy."
- I did, until I realized at the time 95% of the playerbase called it a 'cheat' (the other 5% are the guys still playing rofl)... lol and now you can post on the same boards and people would be like 'wtf you don't use that?'.
And by saying overnight it was a figure of speach, you maybe missed the brackets. It's odd that you didn't notice the decline during 2002 because the game lost half it's playerbase... maybe your server just had a larger amount of cheaters that stayed with the game?
Too bad you missed the best years, the first ones without Decal were a blast!
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Arch_Magi
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Imperil posted:
" Actually, you may want to look here ...
http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=89522227
So if 99% of the people consider it a cheat, how come 67-76% of the people said they'd quit AC if Decal was gone? "
- Please tell me that you really aren't this stupid... please... I said 99% of online gamers.. not 'what is left of AC players'. Go ask on an FPS board if using an aimbot is a cheat? Go ask on the camelot board if using 'radar' is a cheat? Go ask on the Lineage 2 board if using a macro is a cheat? You'll soon find yourself in the VAST minority of online gamers.
I am quite surprised that that poll doesn't show 90-95% in favor of Decal.. I figured it was only the cheaters left with a few die-hards... guess it goes to show that there are still more die-hards holding on than you would expect lol
News Flash for you Buckwheat ... Asheron's Call isn't an FPS ... I don't care about Camelot either ... I stopped playing DAoC after a few months of being bored outta my skull. As for a "vast majority of gamers", I never knew you spoke Korean and Chineese ... the LARGEST group of online gamers on the planet.
Lastly, I doubt your "99% of online gamers" because 62.47% of all statistics are made up.
As for a reason for a decline of the population ... DUH! It's nearly a 6 year old game. People moved on to play EQ2, DAoC, WoW, COH, and about 200 other games that have come out since then.
Imperil posted:
Just stop posting on the subject and I'll go away, that's a promise.
I believe the response to that is ... GB2DAoC.
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Slash-Broker
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"It's part of a class of problem called the 'Graphic Update', basically converting to work with DX9 instead of DX7, while maintaining plugin compatability.
The second class of problem is Memloc finding, we are about half complete there if I remember correctly, at least in terms of numbers. The more difficult ones are left so may take more time. The base graphics object we used for a lot of these does not appear to exist any longer.
And this just in, in our memloc search, we are not spending time required for memlocs that are only used by Windows 9X. For all intense porpoises, Win9X is no longer supported."
Could everyone that ever donated you money that has Win9x get their money back?
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Archui_AC
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Proof of Concept screen shot ( http://viatrak.xmlempire.com/ScreenShot00017.jpg ) looks good and promising with a nice frame rate.
Keep up the good work.
And thanks for the update.
Suggest interested people subscribe to this thread http://vnboards.ign.com/AC_Utilities/b5432/89756988 using Active Topic Notification.
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Bearforce1
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From Gouru:
And this just in, in our memloc search, we are not spending time required for memlocs that are only used by Windows 9X. For all intense porpoises, Win9X is no longer supported.
That's certainly reasonable enough considering that most of the computers that stll use Win9x don't have the capacity to run AC anyways.
Thanks again for all the hard work, I for one truly appreciate it Gouru.
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Imperil
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"News Flash for you Buckwheat ... Asheron's Call isn't an FPS ... I don't care about Camelot either ... I stopped playing DAoC after a few months of being bored outta my skull."
- Than you really are as stupid as I imagined when I read your post lol We are talking about 'online gamers'.. not which game is boring or which is an FPS. We are talking about how YOU sir are an admitted cheater.
"As for a "vast majority of gamers", I never knew you spoke Korean and Chineese"
- Than next time just ask. You are lucky you don't live there, as there is a good chance you'd be playing in an internet cafe having to hide what you are doing to avoid actual death lol.
"Lastly, I doubt your "99% of online gamers" because 62.47% of all statistics are made up."
- It's actually a number you could easily attain a small study on.
Go back to DAOC? wtf people can't play two games anymore? I actually have a subscription to Asherons Call, Dark Age of Camelot, and Everquest 2... this makes my opinion valued less than yours? lol you're the cheater not me bucko. Wow you are so engrossed the cheating has taken over your life and does not allow you to play other games?
Arch Magi I'm not mad at you for being a cheater, some people are just born less skilled at various activities. So please don't take my post as hostile against you.
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Arch_Magi
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MT_Gouru posted:
And this just in, in our memloc search, we are not spending time required for memlocs that are only used by Windows 9X. For all intense porpoises, Win9X is no longer supported.
May want to put that in the official sticky thread. That is pretty much a major change, and I'm sure people would like to know that is "official".
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Slash-Broker
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Yeah since you are screwing alot of the player base and alot of people that have given donations, I think it is time for refund.
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Arch_Magi
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Imperil posted:
"Lastly, I doubt your "99% of online gamers" because 62.47% of all statistics are made up."
- It's actually a number you could easily attain a small study on
Good, you go find the study, then call someone who cares. This board is about utilities, NOT if they are leagal or not.
Turbine already has stated that they are, go check their official board. If you got a problem with them, take it up with them.
"Q: Why doesn't Turbine just ban all third-party applications?
A: Such a ban would be difficult if not impossible to enforce. In addition, we understand that many beneficial third-party applications are harmless and well-loved by our players. We have no plans for such a flat ban at this time. There have been times in the past in which we have deemed use of a specific plug-in to be abuse and have banned players for using it, we reserve the right to do so in the future."
http://forums.ac.turbinegames.com/showthread.php?t=10953
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Imperil
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^^
LOL Slash-Broker what did you put in.. $5 or something to use your cheats for a few years?
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Archui_AC
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trust me, they're doing you a huge favor if this forces you off the Win98 platform and onto XP.
XP = real OS
98 = application front end to DOS
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Imperil
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lol Arch the more you post, the more you look like a cheating fool I've already said that it is IMPOSSIBLE for Decal to disappear at this stage in the game.. no need to repeat it. You just look like someone with a comprehension problem.
"Such a ban would be difficult if not impossible to enforce."
- If anybody really believes that than you guys probably really do need those cheats to play the game lol. Ask any of the Decal developers.. it would be quite easy to enforce.
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Slash-Broker
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I don't have win98, I have winME which is 9x.
And I don't have 100 bucks to spend on XP.
Edit. And Imperial I have never cheated at this game. I use a program for buffing and IDing loot.
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Imperil
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LOL that's even worse!! It's pretty much known as 'Windows Mistake Edition'.
" Edit. And Imperial I have never cheated at this game. I use a program for buffing and IDing loot. "
- Good man....
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Archui_AC
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Imperil -
An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition, not just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes.
The difference is: Monty Python was *trying* to be funny.
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You all can blame me for Homie not working on decal 
Note said auction: http://vnboards.ign.com/Morningthaw/b5156/88657867/p1
Note winner: ME
Note person a tad late :
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Imperil your posts are more articulate than the majority of people who post here but yet you appear to be so clueless on this thread. What gives............
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Slash-Broker>
Judas Priest man, that’s like asking your mom to refund you because you didn’t like the dinner she LOVINGLY PREPAIRED FOR YOU without “compensationâ€.
I have a better idea... Just ask for a refund on your ancient system from the manufacturer.
{edit} put in the posters name for proper context.
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Imperil
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Archui_AC, my apologies I don't understand. I have a hard time listening to what the VB script kiddies have to say
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Imperil
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"Imperil you're posts are more articulate than the majority of people who post here but yet you appear to be so clueless on this thread. What gives............"
- slow night with what I am working on and these people so easily fall into pits You know I don't post against people like yourself.
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Archui_AC
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Slash-Broker, actually ME is the worst of the bunch. It's a bastard hybrid of a DOS based without DOS.
If it helps, I've seen it listed as low as $50 here: http://www.nextag.com/Microsoft-Window-XP-Home--zz3661439z0znz1zwinxpzB9az2--COMPARE-PRICES-html
and have seen it go for just a few $$$ on eBay.
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Slash-Broker
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LOL You guys are to easy. I have never donated to Decal and never will. Spellfilter never worked for me, so wasn't going to donate to something that didn't work for me.
Yeah Archui, I keep an eye on Ebay. But when you haven't worked in two years , it is hard to spend 50 dollars on an OS just for decal.
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Kallinger
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I think it would be better if you did move on Imperil(ya you). while you may have points they are not exactly hitting home with anyone. the current player base is waiting with open drooling mouths for decal and their beloved plug-ins. attacking the devs and the player bases ideals, morals, and intentions is pointless.
we who are left, for the most part anyways, are happy with AC and the 3rd party apps as they are. the decline is sad but you can't expect a game to live forever. the fact that it holds as many players attention spans as it does is proof that turbine created a quality product regardless of how many complain. the decline can be attributed to many reasons, macros are hardly the sole contributer. many of the ppl I know who have left left out of boredom cause they were hardcore gamers and sucked AC dry. others cause of fanatics complaining all the time. others cause of drama, nough of that in RL. others cause they simply didn't have the time for AC anymore, and why pay for something you can't enjoy. not one person of any worth can I think of that left cause of macros.
this and most other programs enhance this game for us. their creation and existance is almost ingrain into all of us now. look around you and tell me you don't see creations made to ease the burden of tedious tasks. AC is far from a point and click game. decal and its programs help make it player friendly for all of us that do play and enjoy playing. if you like the complex nature of AC, then by all means play without them.
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Imperil
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I agree with everything. Imperial should move on outta here!
"not one person of any worth can I think of that left cause of macros. "
- Odd, numbers don't lie.. yet YOU do lol
If you were meaning me in your post (and not the infamous Imperial I always here about) than you walked right into the pit my friend... want a marshmellow for comfort?
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Arch_Magi
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Imperil posted:
I agree with everything. Imperial should move on outta here!
"not one person of any worth can I think of that left cause of macros. "
- Odd, numbers don't lie.. yet YOU do lol
If you were meaning me in your post (and not the infamous Imperial I always here about) than you walked right into the pit my friend... want a marshmellow for comfort?
Ah, we have a psychic ... or is that psycho? ... whatever. So now you are saying that you know that the poster you are quoting does know someone who did leave because of Macros ... or is your reading comprehension so bad that you assumed that just because you MAY know someone that it somehow validates what the other poster said?
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Commander_HG
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your still using Win Me? HAHAAHAHAHAHHAAHAAHAHA, welcome to 2005..
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Imperil
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"So now you are saying that you know that the poster you are quoting does know someone who did leave because of Macros"
- Actually yes, he had a post a long time ago about a friend that left due to macros. Kallinger and I go waaaaaaay back.
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Arch_Magi
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Imperil posted:
"So now you are saying that you know that the poster you are quoting does know someone who did leave because of Macros"
- Actually yes, he had a post a long time ago about a friend that left due to macros. Kallinger and I go waaaaaaay back.
Well then there we go. Either he or you are a bold faced liar.
Bet you can guess who I got my money on.
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Imperil
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" Bet you can guess who I got my money on. "
- You know the old saying. Cheaters pack together! Welcome to the pit btw
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Kallinger
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I had a post about a friend that left cause of macros???
surely you don't mean me. if so please validate that.
while I have read about ppl leaving AC cause of macros I have never known one who has. and again no-one of worth.
EDIT: WTF?? umm I don't even know you, lol. looks like you win the bet Arch. and I know who you were betting on and thx
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Imperil
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Ah sorry you aren't Kallinger from Darktide.. nm.
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miskellr
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Just my 2 pyreals worth. Get together company to company and settle the issue with decal and turbine. Play together or kill the game. YOUR CHOICE!! Tired of you two not playing together. Settle it. This Should not be a major update everytime turbine casts their whim and the players suffer. You are destroying your playing base and your revenues, Who is the idiot at the helm of customer relations??
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Snake_The_Great
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I had ME on me pc for 2 weeks then upgraded to 98 LMAO . And upgraded my wife PC with XP Pro . and stole her XP copy and loaded it pn my PC about 6 mounths ago . So I am good
P.S. Stole her hole hard drive HEHE
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miskellr
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Snake the great needs to be banned from thid thread as he has no clue of the subject
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Inoki_Shouan
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Just my 2 pyreals worth. Get together company to company and settle the issue with decal and turbine. Play together or kill the game. YOUR CHOICE!! Tired of you two not playing together. Settle it. This Should not be a major update everytime turbine casts their whim and the players suffer. You are destroying your playing base and your revenues, Who is the idiot at the helm of customer relations??
not gonna happen. For VARIOUS reasons Turbine cannot and will not step in to actually help. however they have plainly stated they dont intend to kill it.
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miskellr
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Various resons need to be posted by turbine and all players. Simply stated it will not happen will not satisfy customers. You can do better than that!
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Drakier
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Quote Slash-Broker:
========================
"Yeah since you are screwing alot of the player base and alot of people that have given donations, I think it is time for refund."
========================
hang on here...
1) you think "a lot" of people donated? It's more like a lot of people put on a show to donate but never do.. then there are a some people who donate LARGE sums of money to make up for all the people who didn't. I'm not saying Decal hasn't received donations, because it has.... but I think overall, the ratio of Decal users to Donations is a small fraction of a percent. If you donated, then I graciously thank you for your donation, but it is in fact what its name says... a donation. You're contributing for something you're using and appreciate.. you chose to reward us in a monetary fashion. This isn't an ELTank here. We didn't ask for donations, nor did we require them for you to use Decal. In fact.. if I remember right.. we only put up the Decal Donation link ONCE for a very short time at the request of a LOT of users, and since then have removed it to possibly not put it up again.
2) This is one of the MAIN reasons we are against charging anything for Decal or even accepting donations. Stuff like this. It's hard to take donations on group projects. It's hard to figure out who did what and where it should be distributed. That is why with the previous donations, we spent it on the Hospitality suit at ACPL. It benefitted everyone who attended. We most likely will not be doing it again however.
3) Nowhere did it say that we are BREAKING Win9X/ME. We're simply not going to go out of our way to make sure it works and is compatible for everything. It could very well work just as nicely as the previous version did.. then again, it may not.
4) Decal didn't really work well for Win9X/ME people before... SpellFilter and a few other things were completely hosed for Win9X/ME.. also any plugins requiring SpellFilter.
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Bone_Shredder_Bm
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YOU SIR ARE GOD...
well my quota of daily ass kissing is taken cre of
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miskellr
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Actually need a turbine and decal rep to post and not others. Thank You
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miskellr
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If it's a matter of money, post your sites. I'm sure the playing community will donate. Dual client (drakier) post yours, I will donate. As for others try it and see if you get compensated.
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Marlio
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I would like clarification.. Is decal/tank going to be allowed in Asherons Call TOD or not, and if it is, how long will it be approxmimately before it will be working....I have not really played much since TOD has come out because Decal and tank are down...If Decal will not be working again, I will quit playing the game and go to COH or some game that has better graphics and you dont have to worry about baning yourself or armour...If Turbine tries to prevent DEcal/tank from working in TOD, they wont have to worry about any subscriber base, because they will lose it...I wont play without TANK!!!
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whoseon3rd
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Thanks. In the sticky it mentions only official decal devs, who are they? I know Gouru and Drakier are... but who are the rest?
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Inoki_Shouan
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Marlio,
There is a sticky at the top of this forum with the status of decal.
For updates on Tank, you might consider visiting ElgarL's forums.
Please do a little research before just tossing a paragraph of "I'll quit without it" stuff out there. No one cares if you quit.
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Kallinger
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miskellr
good grief man. decal and turbine ARE playing nice together. without a major update you would not have an expansion. decal takes time to make and they are posting their progress. all parties have explained all issues to the player base its just that some are more thick headed then others and don't understand. turbine posts on their own forums, decal devs post here as they are not a part of turbine. as was stated its not about money. the devs don't want your money. they are making decal for the love of AC. what more do you want?
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kronikjames
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i like decal!
I thank all the Decal Devs everytime it works.
I thank all the plugin makers i use as well.
I am glad that we have nice people out there that make it all work. I am glad we can all express our opinions both for and against it. it is obvious that decal has extended out AC in so many ways that if you cannot see this i feel pity for you. I think i would be nice if Turbine would do more direct support to Decal.
someone in my clan said that Turbine is directly helping the Decal Devs and they read it on the Turbine boards. I cant seem to find that post. so i would like to know how much is Turbine helping in identifing the memlocs and how much help is Turbine provideing to make the display thing work?
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miskellr
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Decal devs are for what I can see and others in the dark about updates, and decal devs take months to update, can I say months cause it is getting there, to fix Turbines changes, you are definetly not talking if you did there would not be this lapse in service or you just don't care.
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pieyet
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O wow i have a headache from reading that more confusing than my school work and im getting a masters in PSY
thanks for any work that has and will be done on decal mabye u should just sell the program instead of ask for dotinations
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Inoki_Shouan
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LOL, It isnt a paid service, so you really cant complain about how long it takes.
That is frankly, childish.
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Al-Vitae
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Inoki_Shouan posted:
Marlio,
There is a sticky at the top of this forum with the status of decal.
For updates on Tank, you might consider visiting ElgarL's forums.
Please do a little research before just tossing a paragraph of "I'll quit without it" stuff out there. No one cares if you quit.
Just as no one cares if you play. Personlly I think all this decal arguing is getting old. I for one would close my two accts if there was no decal anymore.
Not that I couldn't play without it. It's just not worth playing anymore old school.
I think it would be hilarious if decal didn't go back up and 50% of the playerbase quit. Then the purists could say "See I told ya decal would be the ruination of the game."
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Kallinger
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they support it by not banning decal. that has been said many times. being that its not an official turbine program no-one will admit to assisting.
what does it matter if they help or don't help? what use is the info?
we got a expansion. we are getting decal back. what more is there?
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miskellr
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Inoki says: Please do a little research before just tossing a paragraph of "I'll quit without it" stuff out there. No one cares if you quit.
FYI INOKI PLAYEER BASE SET THE RULES for PLAYING NOT YOU, PLAYING BASE IS COMPLAINING!! WAKE UP. LOST ??
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Inoki_Shouan
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Am i not among the player base?
EDIT: I can see this thread is a waste of time. Throw your fits, I will not be posting on it again. Last time i let posters like you irriate me I was the one that got the pm from a mod, not worth my effort.
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Sgian_Dubh
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[no personal attacks]
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OnceKnownAsAniker
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so was there any update info in this flame-fest thread?
thanks
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miskellr
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I hope the attitude of the rest of the world does not take the attitude of I don't care if you quit quote:
Please do a little research before just tossing a paragraph of "I'll quit without it" stuff out there. No one cares if you quit.
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Digero
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OnceKnownAsAniker posted on 7/25/05 11:09pm
so was there any update info in this flame-fest thread?
thanks
Check the sticky.
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HamlitTheHeartseeker
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I am figuring that updates for plugins will be necessary as well as Decal itself. If we're lucky, maybe things will be close to back to normal by Xmas; although, by then what's left of the subscriber base will be busy checking out the Xbox 360.
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Lil-Blub
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Good deal keep working Gouru! Love it. Ty.
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miskellr
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Inoki_Shouan
A spokesperson for what group decal or AC:
Posting a claim for " No one cares if you leave the game" is detrimental to the game and needs an apology. Just the claim from AC that their people think that about their player base, drives the last nail in the coffin.
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Gamemaster1121
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I think an English class would be of service to you Imperil. It is only cheating if it violated the laws of the game. Decal is supported therefore, by definition, it is NOT a cheat.
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W-O-L-F
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whoseon3rd posted:
Thanks. In the sticky it mentions only official decal devs, who are they? I know Gouru and Drakier are... but who are the rest?
You can add Mekle, Hazridi, Arkayas and Azreal, but for the most part, Drakier and Gouru have been the most public.
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_boneyard_
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<< Yeah since you are screwing alot of the player base and alot of people that have given donations, I think it is time for refund. >>
haha you are a funny person 
it's nice to see the drawing on screen is getting somehwere, but can the next time someone with a matching suit of armor take the screenshot
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The_Korrigan
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Marlio posted on 7/25/05 10:04pm
I wont play without TANK!!!
Inoki_Shouan posted on 7/25/05 10:11pm
No one cares if you quit.
I hope Decal will be back as I too believe it would be the death of AC if it doesn't, but I agree with Inoki here. I really don't care if someone who can't play without tank leaves the game.
There are plenty of replacements available for each function of tank, most being much better than tank's built in ones, the only thing you can't replace is the combat macroing part. If someone who can't play without a combat macro quits, it's a good thing for AC.
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Rules_Twin
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I agree. I miss decal and cant wait for it to be back up and running. you all have done some great work over the years and without you all now I think the game would just die out.
I think the main think I cant wait for is so I dont have to selfbuff anymore. I will also have to read the COC again now to make sure I can run my buff bot for my monarchy still but if not then at least I wont have to sit here and hit button after button just to buff.
Again thanks for all the hard work you all have put into this project over the years.
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ryasun1
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If I made decal I would just stop work on it right now and then see what these whinners do or I would say It is dead and continue to work on it. Geez people give them a break it isn't like they don't have real jobs to do also
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Arch_Magi
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Getting back somewhat on track, not that I still use Win98, is the reason that it will no longer be supported is because of technical problems, time, both, or something else?
I think that more than a few people will be "annoyed". If it is time related, do you guys think that the memlocs can be found out later and Win98 support added back? Or is this just a convient time to '86 the whole 98 support?
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MagikBrute
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The_Korrigan posted:
Marlio posted on 7/25/05 10:04pm
I wont play without TANK!!!
Inoki_Shouan posted on 7/25/05 10:11pm
No one cares if you quit.
I hope Decal will be back as I too believe it would be the death of AC if it doesn't, but I agree with Inoki here. I really don't care if someone who can't play without tank leaves the game.
There are plenty of replacements available for each function of tank, most being much better than tank's built in ones, the only thing you can't replace is the combat macroing part. If someone who can't play without a combat macro quits, it's a good thing for AC.
Some people are having problems just running TOD. The more plug-ins you have the more memory it takes. If haveing Tank can cut your plugins down to 1 for everything (discount the combat macro) then you would be able to have the function and not the overhead of 10 diffrent plugins.
While I agree that losing someone who combat macros is a good thing I don't think that you shoudl genralize El-Tank that way. I use it for Chatting, ICR, Buffing, ID and detection (but I still use BS2 cause I can really customize it), Portals, and Tracking what I lost on what body.
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Maddy_ACEDL
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<< Getting back somewhat on track, not that I still use Win98, is the reason that it will no longer be supported is because of technical problems, time, both, or something else? >>
Big reason is that going from Win98 to WinXP was a big OS change, going from Win95 to Win98 was minor compared to that. Plus it probably means most of the Decal devs are using WinXP (or 2000) and don't have test systems available to try things out on Win98.
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Arch_Magi
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Maddy_ACEDL posted:
<< Getting back somewhat on track, not that I still use Win98, is the reason that it will no longer be supported is because of technical problems, time, both, or something else? >>
Big reason is that going from Win98 to WinXP was a big OS change, going from Win95 to Win98 was minor compared to that. Plus it probably means most of the Decal devs are using WinXP (or 2000) and don't have test systems available to try things out on Win98.
For the 3 people who haven't upgraded off that "death OS" ... aka WindowsME ... does ME fall into the Win95/98 side or the Win2k/XP side of the cut?
I'm thinking that it will fall on the Win95/98 side because of the lack of testing systems, but you never know who has what in their test bed.
Sorry to keep asking specific questions, but alot of people do not venture to other boards for info. They rely on people like me to get the answers and report back. As we speak, I have 1 person PMing me asking what the status of Decal and TPAs are. Not to mention people in my guild who do not venture off our boards.
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-Gol-
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MT_Gouru posted on 7/25/05 7:47pm
For all intense porpoises, Win9X is no longer supported.
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_boneyard_
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me is nothing more then a buggy update of 98, so that is almost certainly not supported either.
and if im not mistaken me isn't officially supported by turbine for ac:tod either.
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Benny_Mulligan
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Nerfus Buffus, Robochef, and spell component plugins (before the switch to tapers, which I hate BTW because of the loss of pack space and additional burden but use because there are no more working spell component plugins) kept me in the game off and on. I definately would not have continued playing off and on if I had to do all of the tedious things that felt like a chore. Pressing so many buttons and clicking, dragging, etc. so many times does not equate to fun. I also don't think I have personally chased anyone out of the game. If I have personally chased you out of the game, please let me know, I think I can make it right.
Thanks for reading my testimonial.
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Ascus
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no more working spell component plugins
There is the built in comp buyer that still works.
I can't wait for when Decal is released, how many ETA requests will be made for XXXXX plugin
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Maddy_ACEDL
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<< For the 3 people who haven't upgraded off that "death OS" ... aka WindowsME ... does ME fall into the Win95/98 side or the Win2k/XP side of the cut? >>
ME is closer to Win98 then WinXP.
I'm one of the few people where WinME actually ran better then Win98 on my system at home.
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Benny_Mulligan
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"There is the built in comp buyer that still works. "
Actually, I was referring to the plugins that would drag and stack the comps in my packs. That was the part I hated. Buying with the comp buyer was a half-finished step IMO because they only got rid of half of the PITA.
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Didn't SortIt still work? I mean up until ToD that is... I USED to use Sort It, and found it pretty helpful, but when I switched to tapers, it really wasn't necessary for me anymore.
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Sort It! worked just fine up until ToD, and that and Einstein are the first two plugins I'm gonna make work.
Windows 98 and ME are both supported by ToD and DirectX9. The OSes are NOT supported by Microsoft. The decision to drop them saves us a little bit of work, but other than that is primarily arbitrary. We don't like Win9x, we don't WANT to support 9x, we don't HAVE to support 9x, so we are doing ZERO additional work that would be done solely for Win9x. Mostly this involves finding 'special' mouse memlocs.
If for some magical reason, the mouse works afterwards and Win9X somehow works without thoese memlocs, fine, but it won't be our fault.
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ETA ? 
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Imperil, do you seriously think EQ isn't more hacked up that AC?
Perhaps you should go start a sub with them, join an uber guild and get some of the hacks running.
You can teleport anywhere in a zone, to the zone entrance, to an object in the zone, etc.
AC is not as hacked as some of the others, if, and this is a big if, you had any clue what you were talking about.
AC - sure, some people macro, but there is a LOT worse going on in at least EQ 1.
DX.
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You guys have made the game fully accessable for me.This prolonged wait has turned me into raving mad villager from old b horror flic.You have my deep respect for what is for me a needed tool to play some of my toons. I do beleive like has been stated, if you dont like plugins dont use them. Most of the purist seem a bit mean spirited. GO suck on a lugie
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i thank the decal devs for taking the time to answer some of the questions from the peanut gallery. It seems from the screen shot that we might get Decal before Thanksgiving instead of before Christmas...or dear i hope that maybe before Halloween. I just wish that all the decal bad decal good would go away. i made this post on the Turbine boards not too long ago about what we should be asking our selfs is what does Turbine think...here is what i posted:
holy cow...i think sometimes these umc, bot, and decal threads get outta control...
I will not get into if umc/amc is ok or not ok or against coc or not. we all know what the coc says or at least should know. We could make comparisons for this or that to Asheron's Call. And we can say how we feel on any of these subjects.
But in this case what we need to ask is how does Turbine feel?
I have not read every post on every topic, and correct me if i am wrong.
From what i have read and understand Turbine has the abilty to lock out Decal but has choosen not to. So by making that choice they have condoned Decal itself to work.
Now what we look at is what will Turbine ban a user for doing or not doing. Will Turbine ban a user for leaving a buff bot up and running all the time? No the will not. So again Turbine is saying that Buff bots are ok by them. We wont go into the fact that buff bot do earn xp by casting spells though.
Can one leave a Trade bot up and running to sell items ingame and will Turbine ban you for doing that? No they will not ban you for that. So again Turbine is saying that Trade bots are ok.
Is it ok to have a bot make potions, arrows, or other things of that nature (just make not sell to NPC vendors) and will you get banned for it? The answer is no they will not. So again condoneing this.
So here is the break down so far:
Decal=OK
Buffbots=OK
Tradebots=OK
Makeitbots=OK
Now for the tuff part...AMC and UMC. Will Turbine ban you for UMC? Yes. Now we are not talking if you are caught or not caught. Just simple will they ban you for doing it. So UMC is not OK.
AMC I would think is tuff for some. I am not asking here if is morally right or wrong just simply will Turbine ban you for it. Will Turbine ban you for AMC? No they can't as it is not against any rules. Plus it would seem hard not impossible just hard for Turbine to enoforce. So AMC maybe morally wrong but is condoned by Turbine.
So here is the result for this:
UMC=not OK
AMC=OK
I know some might disagree with the morality issue on this but i am not posting about morality here but what will Turbine ban you for and not ban you for thus condoneing some things and not others.
At some point it would make since for Turbine to cut out the middle man for this. Eliminate Decal and then implement into the UI a Buffbot, Tradebot, Makeitbot. Also some type of Global Dereth Postitioning system as well would be nice. Similar to El Nav where you enter where you are and where you would like to go and then it would list the path for you. Then at that point with Decal cut out all the AMC/UMC would just go away. Yes there might be a program or two out there that works with out Decal but are there any AMC/UMC programs that work with out Decal?
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Imperil
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Sorry I missed posting.. I was in English class learning 'It is only cheating if it violated the laws of the game'.
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Daija
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>>I think an English class would be of service to you Imperil. It is only cheating if it violated the laws of the game. Decal is supported therefore, by definition, it is NOT a cheat.<<
I must object to this, slightly. Decal isn't supported, that's why there's so much work right now to get it to work again.
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Imperil posted:
Sorry I missed posting.. I was in English class learning 'It is only cheating if it violated the laws of the game'.
Main Entry: 1cheat
Pronunciation: 'chEt
Function: verb
transitive senses
1 : to deprive of something valuable by the use of deceit or fraud
2 : to influence or lead by deceit, trick, or artifice
3 : to elude or thwart by or as if by outwitting <cheat death>
intransitive senses
1 a : to practice fraud or trickery b : to violate rules dishonestly (as at cards or on an examination)
2 : to be sexually unfaithful -- usually used with on
Nope, nothing about being a cheat if it 99% of online gamers say it is a cheat.
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Imperil
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^^^
umm you're actually missing some of the key definitions (there are 8 literals), but that's ok you're a cheater.. obviously you're try to slant things your own way rofl
"b : to violate rules dishonestly"
- oops you actually PWNED yourself there. If you go by the actual software agreement and not what random developer #03409 has said, than you sir are violating the rules dishonestly.
Thanks for coming out.
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Imperil posted:
^^^
umm you're actually missing some of the key definitions (there are 8 literals), but that's ok you're a cheater.. obviously you're try to slant things your own way rofl
"b : to violate rules dishonestly"
- oops you actually PWNED yourself there. If you go by the actual software agreement and not what random developer #03409 has said, than you sir are violating the rules dishonestly.
Thanks for coming out.
Except that using Decal isn't, no matter how twisted your little mind is, a violation of the ToS from Turbine. They make the rules, and they aren't being violated.
Case closed, go away.
http://forums.ac.turbinegames.com/showthread.php?t=23804
"The wording of the Code of Conduct regarding third party apps has been changed, yes. Are we banning for anything we weren't banning for last week? No, absolutely not. We are not banning tradebots, buffbots, etc, only unattended combat macros.
We've always had the right to ban any third-party application, as per the End User License Agreement. Nothing regarding policies has changed, just the wording.
__________________
Alex "Ibn" Beckers
AC1 Online Community Relations"
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qq
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"Except that using Decal isn't, no matter how twisted your little mind is, a violation of the ToS from Turbine. They make the rules, and they aren't being violated."
- Wow you really are as stupid as you seem
The word 'banning' does not equate to 'not a violation' at all. The actual agreement, if you can actually read, states that you are not allowed to interfere with the software, including with tools and hacks.
Go ask any Decal developer and they'll say the same thing. It's illegal and against the agreement.. BUT they won't ban you for it
" We've always had the right to ban any third-party application, as per the End User License Agreement."
- I mean you even posted the quote yourself from an employee.. are you really that stupid? There is a big difference for something 'being legal' and 'banning'. That statement from Ibn clearly states that you are violating the ToS and EULA but they are not banning for it at the current time.
Must suck to need a crutch and having to cheat lol I can picture you sitting there grinding your teeth wishing your 'plugins' weren't cheats lol. As I already said just don't reply to me and I won't post.. quite simple. Than you can go back to conversing with your fellow cheaters without having stress attacks lol.
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MT_Gouru
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Actually, not illegal and against the agreement. The agreement reads (in part) "Use of unauthorized third-party software or macros with the Software may be prohibited in the sole discretion of Turbine."
note the terms MAY and SOLE DISCRETION. Turbine has exercised it's discretion and allows Decal, even if it is not officially supported.
If it WAS illegal and against the agreement, we wouldn't be doing it.
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Imperil
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Ok sorry I shouldn't have said the ToS as I wasn't sure, my bad. The EULA on my AC disc clearly states it though.
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Dargoncin
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Well I am glad you are "doing it" MT
Thank you very much
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keep it up MTG
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MT_Gouru posted:
If it WAS illegal and against the agreement, we wouldn't be doing it.
Nor would the Customer Relations person for Turbine, who stated that he contacted the legal department, that Decal and TPAs are allowed.
Bottome line, this guys beef is with Turbine and their policy of allowing TPAs, yet he lacks the stones to contact Turbine and the pull to get it changed. It is just eP33n waving by someone who has EED (Electronic Erectile Dysfunction).
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Imperil
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"yet he lacks the stones to contact Turbine and the pull to get it changed."
- umm I don't want the stance on the issue changed bud. Wow I dunno where you pull this stuff from, your last three posts were from left field lol No wonder you don't reply to them.
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Face it Imperil, there would be NO Asheron's Call for you to play if not for Decal. A sizable portion of the player-base would leave outright, as characters they've built over YEARS of playing would essentially be useless, buffers without the ability to buff when not attended, and characters that can't buff themselves because they've been raised on the premise a buffer would always be available.
I for one would NOT re-roll my high level characters (some 130+), if I did not have a reasonable expectation of getting a buffer for them soon. I sooner quit, and find another game to play. That is the attitude of my entire monarchy, which by ourselves control 30+ accounts. Times that by several other monarchies already expressing the same opinion, and no Decal (or a reasonable facisimle thereof) would be Asheron's death knell... 
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Imperil
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"Face it Imperil, there would be NO Asheron's Call for you to play if not for Decal. "
- Actually you phrased that wrong.
If you take away Decal right now.. yes I fully agree with you the game is finished as everybody relies on it. Although Decal (sorry not Decal, but certain Decal plugins) is what drove over 100,000 subscriptions away, and also made it near impossible to attract new players due to AC's 'cheaters' reputation.
So it really depends what you meant.. but I really hope you don't believe that Decal somehow 'saved' the game, as you can quite easily see by numbers that certain 'plugins' that use Decal (and not Decal itself) destroyed the playerbase of the game and made it what it is today... and right now Decal IS a needed part of the game.
" I for one would NOT re-roll my high level characters (some 130+)"
- Oh I realize that.. because the levels would never have been inflated that high without a lot of the cheats and content would have still been created for the normal levels.
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Imperil lives in a bubble universe. Nothing from the outside can penetrate it (especially the opinions of others). Anything he doesn't agree with doesn't exist. His opinion is the only correct one.
I'm guessing Imperil is an only child, and doesn't play well with others.
My advice? Let Imperil live in his own little delusional world. He's not actually hurting anyone. So, just ignore him. Better yet, let's all ignore him together.
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one last post b4 this is locked... hopefully
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Imperil
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I used to play baseball with MK down the street at the park last year... but he started cheating too much so I stopped playing well with him. He doesn't really like me anymore. Both of us are young children that live in bubbles because of our rare skin disease.
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Arch_Magi
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Imperil posted:
Although Decal (sorry not Decal, but certain Decal plugins) is what drove over 100,000 subscriptions away, and also made it near impossible to attract new players due to AC's 'cheaters' reputation.
That statement, is a bold faced lie.
Submit your PROOF that Decal (or any TPA) CAUSED 100,000 people to quit AC. Bear in mind, that the population decline is NOT proof of what CAUSED it, it is simply the RESULT of one or more EFFECTS.
Until you can provide PROOF that Decal (or any TPA) CAUSED it, please stop spreading lies.
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Imperil
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Until you can provide proof of the greenhouse effect please ignore it. If you didn't take stats class and can't create relative approximates from numbers, times, and events.. than you really should be reading rather than cheating in a game sir.
Lies? Flip the coin buddy, prove it didn't. But use some numbers instead of guesses please.
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actually IMPERIL ac doesnt have a cheaters reputation. It has no reputation at all. No one outside of this game that i ever talk to has even heard of this game.
Asherons call really needs to get some serious advertising going!!!
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Correlations are not always causal.
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P.S. The name is GOURU not MT_GOURU. The MT is only ugly cruft from way back when they made us change accounts on these boards and it couldn't give my real account name properly. Just drop MT and all will be fine. Continue using it and I will target you next.
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Imperil
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"actually IMPERIL ac doesnt have a cheaters reputation"
- Than you obviously don't post on other boards or play other games. Just the other night I was playing a different game and there was one of those 'good ole days' chats in main chat talking about AC and how it is a hackers paradise now. Unfortunately I didn't join in the conversation though, I save that for you guys here
Don't get me wrong though, it still is one of the best games ever made bar none.
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Dark_Schneidr
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MY definition of cheat includes you "GAINING SOMETHING from your cheat"
What are we gaining with Decal that we cannot obtain without it?
NOTHING!
So, you and your "it's a cheat, it's a cheat" attitude should really take a hike and find something better to do.
ID'ing items all at once rather than one at a time... IS NOT A CHEAT
Making arrows and skipping 24 other clicks for 1 bundle of arrows... IS NOT A CHEAT
EVEN COMBAT MACROS are NOT A CHEAT!
Look at Final Fantasy XI - you can set up combat macros in that game WITH NO 3RD PARTY PROGRAMS. So I'm guessing Square built in a cheat?
All decal does is provide a way to EXPAND the Asheron's Call experience. If you do not choose to accept it, then that's your choice. Now save the drama for your momma and get off these boards you freakin loser.
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Imperil
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"EVEN COMBAT MACROS are NOT A CHEAT! "
- Classic And I'm not mad at you for cheating at all, it's really just you mad at yourself.
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Arch_Magi
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Imperil posted:
Until you can provide proof of the greenhouse effect please ignore it. If you didn't take stats class and can't create relative approximates from numbers, times, and events.. than you really should be reading rather than cheating in a game sir.
Lies? Flip the coin buddy, prove it didn't. But use some numbers instead of guesses please.
Yeah, I remember college stats class.
Speaking of relative approximates from numbers, times, and events ... you mean like how server populations started to plumit when every month from November to the next February there was an "extended outtage" or "hotfix"? Or when they changed the entire Patron/Vassal system and "XP Passup" went through the floor? Or when they raised the cost per month from $9.95 to $12.95? Or like when Turbine completely botched the housing launch and people were royally ticked because there were like 3-4 times as many people as cottages and villas and people quit (like myself)? Or just the simple fact that the graphics hadn't changed much in 6+ years and other games like Half-Life 2, Doom 3, as well as the PS/2 and the XBox came out and the entire "console revolution" happened?
You mean events like that?
Yeah, but Decal and TPAs are the cause for population declines.
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Imperil
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"Or just the simple fact that the graphics hadn't changed much in 6+ years and other games like Half-Life 2, Doom 3, as well as the PS/2 and the XBox came out and the entire "console revolution" happened?"
- Ah yes, I see this also killed Ultima Online.
The other things you mentioned (other than housing) do not apply, if you look the population was already devistated from a certain plugin (not all of Decal though) at that time. Adding the housing the way it was implemented was obviously runner up next to the macros though, I mean splitting an online community is never a good thing. I mean your whole November -> February argument I see about 10k subs lost.. so divvy that up between macroing, old game, etc.. and all your reasons and all your big reasons (other than housing) are around 2k lost subs max lol.
I'm leaving for good now, I caused enough trouble. Please try to sleep easier tonight, I know it's tough having to cheat but seriously.. don't let it eat you up too much.
Later guys, I'm gone for good... seriously this time.
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Arch_Magi
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Imperil posted:
"Or just the simple fact that the graphics hadn't changed much in 6+ years and other games like Half-Life 2, Doom 3, as well as the PS/2 and the XBox came out and the entire "console revolution" happened?"
- Ah yes, I see this also killed Ultima Online.
The other things you mentioned (other than housing) do not apply, if you look the population was already devistated from a certain plugin (not all of Decal though) at that time. Adding the housing the way it was implemented was obviously runner up next to the macros though, I mean splitting an online community is never a good thing.
ElTank Beta V 1.1.0.1 Released on 9/23/2002
Let's see your population graph, and see what happened BEFORE then.
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Arch_Magi
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Imperil posted:
Later guys, I'm gone for good... seriously this time.
WooT!
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illusion24
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Edit: nevermind, I the issue I referenced has been shelved in face of the more imposing issue of someone hating decal. Carry on, those are an endless source of entertainment!
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Arch_Magi
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illusion24 posted:
Arch Magi, I am thoroughly unimpressed with the way you have represented yourself on this thread and those related. Needless to say, if I ever find myself on your server, I will make a point of avoiding your monarchy. Its clear you have absolutely no interest in the people or time that go into maintaining decal, so long as it is maintained. As you so eloquently put it:
"I don't deal with Gouru much beyond finding out things about the status of Decal. I don't know his "posting style". I have a guild to run and a game to play, with or without Decal, I don't have time to waste "learning someones posting style" to decipher a direct question."
I wouldn't answer your 'direct questions' either.
That's fine, you have a problem because I refuse to stroke 1 persons ego, that is your right.
Further, your assumption that I have "have absolutely no interest in the people or time that go into maintaining decal" is in error. Decal isn't about Gouru, he is but one part of the Decal team. I have given props to the Decal team, and even Gouru, for their work.
I just don't go around "puckering up" to everyone all the time. Although you may thing my post count may say otherwise, I use the internet, and this board, as a TOOL. A good tool shouldn't be overly complex. When I use google to find an answer, I don't wanna sort through alot of BS, I want a clear and direct answer.
Sorry if that offends you.
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Benny_Mulligan
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I think AC sunk so low because they never marketed their product until this expansion - relying solely on word of mouth and holding on to people who have already played the game. They could have run advertisements with every monthly update to build up the player base for a nice cushy ride down the inevitable declining slope, but they didn't build it up when this game was still new by tech standards. Everquest, which came out roughly the same time, has lost way more than 100,000 subscribers, but the difference is that they kept replacing the people who left so they had an increasing volume of subscribers for a long period of time. Plus they had cartoon girly pics on their box, not a pewp brown thing like AC. That is why AC is where it is.
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Arch_Magi
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Benny_Mulligan posted:
I think AC sunk so low because they never marketed their product until this expansion - relying solely on word of mouth and holding on to people who have already played the game. They could have run advertisements with every monthly update to build up the player base for a nice cushy ride down the inevitable declining slope, but they didn't build it up when this game was still new by tech standards. Everquest, which came out roughly the same time, has lost way more than 100,000 subscribers, but the difference is that they kept replacing the people who left so they had an increasing volume of subscribers for a long period of time. Plus they had cartoon girly pics on their box, not a pewp brown thing like AC. That is why AC is where it is.
Dang it ... I forgot about that one. There must have been like 2-3 years of where there was no way to get a new account (basically from 6-9 months after AC:DM to when Turbine FINALLY added the ability to buy CD-Keys online).
Good catch.
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illusion24
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"I have given props to the Decal team, and even Gouru, for their work."
Ah, 'props.' The merest thought fills me with warm fuzzies.
"I just don't go around "puckering up" to everyone all the time. Although you may thing my post count may say otherwise, I use the internet, and this board, as a TOOL. A good tool shouldn't be overly complex. When I use google to find an answer, I don't wanna sort through alot of BS, I want a clear and direct answer."
Ah, but you did not seek an answer from 'the internet' or from 'the board,' you sought it from a human being. Perhaps you need to learn to differentiate between tools and humans before you go outside and play with others.
You further impress me with every word uttered.
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Zarani
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Great Job you guys, thanks for everything
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Zarani
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Silverwuf
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First of all, I'd like to express my thanks to the Decal team for all the hard (and FREE) work they are doing to help make AC more convenient to play.
I work in IT and have for some 20+ years. I currently specialize in the field of application performance. This means that I get paid to actively seek out those third party 'hacks' to enhance the user experience for our users that rely on slow performing or inconvenient business applications to do their daily jobs. I don't think they're cheats and neither does the company I work for. They are put in place to make sure our employees can use the software quickly and efficiently without impacting the overall functionality of the software or the bottom line of the business.
That said, I use Decal plug in applications to enhance my user experience in AC, not as a hunting aid or a combat macro. Please feel free to call me a cheat if you wish. In my opinion there will always be those who paint the world with a broad brush and if I appear to cheat at a game to some, so be it. I already know that I am comfortable with myself.
And after having read this thread in its entirety, I am thanking another 'hack' for having created the third party plugin for Mozilla Firefox called Vnignore.
Thanks again to the Decal team for producing a great API.
Silver
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myxomatosis8
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VNIGNORE? WHERE??
/e runs off to google it
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No_Sleep
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IDEA FOR THE DECAL DEVS
Why dont you guys make a game off your own? seems like you guys are a clever bunch, not that hard to find people for artwork, audio ect
Seems to me you do a beter job communicating with the players even tho you are a group working together online.
Maybe call it WoD? (world of decal  )
Z
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Imperil
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"not that hard to find people for artwork, audio"
- On the contrary this is actually the hardest part believe it or not. The biggest issue right now with next gen and even current gen games is content production. I mean in your average studio you are seeing a 3:1 artist to programmer ratio minimum, an average of 5:1, and you really want to be sitting at 9:1 or higher for a game like an MMOG.
I have no doubts the Decal developers could put together a game, as I even already stated.. but getting content is hard unless you are shelling out good cash contracting for it
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crimson-kain
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Who gives a [TOS]? The game is already dead, why do you CARE?!?!?!?! Damn, thought this conversation was over like a week ago but its still going on.
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Arch_Magi
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crimson-kain posted:
Who gives a <edit>? The game is already dead, why do you CARE?!?!?!?! Damn, thought this conversation was over like a week ago but its still going on.
You don't think that when he said this 2 days ago on this very thread that he actually ment it did you?
Imperil posted:
Later guys, I'm gone for good... seriously this time.
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_LocoDragon
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tag
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dragonballz1951
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This isn,t being a decal info thread or developer thread just sameo sameo 9 pages deep
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crackerware
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not that hard to find people for artwork, audio"
- On the contrary this is actually the hardest part believe it or not. The biggest issue right now with next gen and even current gen games is content production. I mean in your average studio you are seeing a 3:1 artist to programmer ratio minimum, an average of 5:1, and you really want to be sitting at 9:1 or higher for a game like an MMOG.
I have no doubts the Decal developers could put together a game, as I even already stated.. but getting content is hard unless you are shelling out good cash contracting for it
Imperil = A$$hat STFU dood. What the hell do you know about making a game? I am currently enrolled in iadt of tampa for my batchelors in fine arts for computer anmation. There are several departments that go into making a game. Sales, Animation, Modeling, Coding, Interior design, not to mention a decent knowledge of Physics and Anatomy. In my opinion you are just jealous of the acomplishments brought forth by the decal team and I can sympathise with them as to how hard it is to update decal. When I was making eq trainers the code was not incripted so all I had to do was decompile and search jump referances. Ac however is a little harder due to the incription. They actually have to search for the hexidecimal equivelant in whats called the residual memory to find what they are looking for, no easy task.
You make me sick with all your bitching Imperil so just STFU nobody wants to hear it. If you don't like it don't use it! Go play in your little carebear world and be happy without trying to preach to people who are not hearing it.
<3 Imperil
<<<CRACKERWARE>>>
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whoseon3rd
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myxomatosis8 posted on 7/27/05 11:21am
VNIGNORE? WHERE??
/e runs off to google it
Works pretty well too
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Aenema_TD
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lol A$$hat catchy
what is an A$$hat anyways?
PM me i would like to know
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Catkicker-SC
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lol A$$hat catchy
what is an A$$hat anyways?
PM me i would like to know
someone with their head up their a$$ could be said to be wearing their A$$ as a hat.
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theora
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this might have been mentioned already(tooo much crap to skim through) but, has anyone looked into the possibility to leach off the IG help windows for decal?
looking at it without looking via any decompilers unless it cannot do what the decal devs want is it much of a possibility to go that route?
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Drakier
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what is it exactly that you think the help windows would do for us?
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Imperil
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"There are several departments that go into making a game. Sales, Animation, Modeling, Coding, Interior design, not to mention a decent knowledge of Physics and Anatomy."
- Those tech schools are worthless and barely anybody breaks into the industry. Sales and marketing is taken care of business guys with actual degrees from accredited places.. not some guy that took 2 courses in business math lol, arts are done by concepts, animators, modellers like you said. Wtf interior design? Sorry dude but we only hire people with experience in level design, etc.. if somebody with an interior design degree applied we'd get a nice laugh. Physics is a given if you are a developer. You MUST know mathematics, physics, basic sciences, and obviously computer science and engineering. Those tech schools are fine for basic modelling / animating jobs, but the developers that come out of places like that are just horrendous.
"In my opinion you are just jealous of the acomplishments brought forth by the decal team and I can sympathise with them as to how hard it is to update decal."
- Yeah I'm jealous that some guys spent their time hacking a game... reaaaaaaaaaal jealous But never once did I ever say it was not hard to update or keep current. Most people don't realize a few things, such as how tough it was to first hook and properly get Decal running with plugins, and secondly to keep it updated on changes.
"When I was making eq trainers the code was not incripted so all I had to do was decompile and search jump referances. Ac however is a little harder due to the incription. They actually have to search for the hexidecimal equivelant in whats called the residual memory to find what they are looking for, no easy task."
- Do you mean encrypted? Do you mean resident memory? Wow nice school you go to lol ... obviously they just take anybody with the cash. Let me guess.. you get to print your own diploma at the end of the 3 month course?
At work it's either you graduated from Fullsail, Digipen, or have a REAL degree (ie science or mathematics based from an accredited University if you are a developer, obviously arts based for content and design based jobs). We have a couple guys without those requirements but they had a few years of experience with a nice portfolio. We 'file' tech school resumes in the bin.
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Marie1uk
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^^ You sound like a complete and utter twat mate.
Big headed, conceited, know-it-all, condescending, arrogant, belittling are just a few of the more positive things I can say about you Imperil. With your vast experience, knowledge & leadership skills I would have thought you could get decal up & running in a matter of minutes ...... 
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