Ashmaele
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He gets points for honesty I guess
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The following is an actual e-mail that was in my Inbox when I arrived at work this morning. It has not been altered in any way (other than the redacted names):
From: XXXXXXXXX
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 7:33 AM
To: XXXXXXXXXX
Subject:
I'm gonna be a little late. Went out for drinks for my b-day last night, movin a little slow this mornin.
Kent
Sent from my iPhone
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Lyken-P
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He gets points for honesty I guess
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As long it's not a weekly event, I think bosses will understand.
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Ashmaele
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He gets points for honesty I guess
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In a vacuum it means little but piled on top of the other things I have seen and heard it further confirms my suspicion that this guy is a complete idiot.
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Crooq_Lionfang
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He gets points for honesty I guess
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Yeah, it was his birthday, give him a break. at least i hope for him that it was, but that's easily verifyable
edit: alright, if there's more stuff about that guy that might change it. Then it wouldn't be giving him one break but a whole load
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Cawlin
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He gets points for honesty I guess
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Yeesh... I would never send an e-mail like that.
I might say:
I woke up feeling poorly this morning, I will be a little late.
or something similar. It's one thing for "everyone" to know you were out drinking, it's another to put it in writing...
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Jorrdan
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He gets points for honesty I guess
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Cawlin posted:
Yeesh... I would never send an e-mail like that.
I might say:
I woke up feeling poorly this morning, I will be a little late.
or something similar. It's one thing for "everyone" to know you were out drinking, it's another to put it in writing...
This.
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Mastara
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He gets points for honesty I guess
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Be responsible. He could have just called in sick or scheduled the day off :/
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Clackdor
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He gets points for honesty I guess
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Aren't you over-reacting a bit?
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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He gets points for honesty I guess
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I'd find it refreshing and actually let it slide without comment. If it was a solid employee who I hadn't had any issues with over the last year or so.
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Ashmaele
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He gets points for honesty I guess
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That's just it, he's had issues. Even if he hadn't had issues it's pretty idiotic and unprofessional to declare that you're late because you're hungover.
Anyhoo, his supervisor just sent him home, says it's unsafe for him to be working with a hangover.
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Ptilk
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He gets points for honesty I guess
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Sounds like a reasonable explanation to me. It was his Bday, he had some drinks, coming in a bit late. No biggie.
Now, if he is late frequently, that changes things. If he is hung over all the damn time, that changes things, if he is worthless because of some illness half the time, that changes things. Not much else would however. Any other problems that he might have would not connect to this incident at all.
Sheesh, I could give a god damn if an employee is late for whatever reason once a month. It's a job, not their life.
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Mastara
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He gets points for honesty I guess
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haha that sucks. Just schedule the day off or at worst call in. But never tell them you have a hang over :/ just makes you look so irresponsible
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the_great_intex
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He gets points for honesty I guess
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Forward it to your boss and HR, what a criminal
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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He gets points for honesty I guess
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As a boss in my area I know my people work hard. I find it healthy that they also find time to play hard. Once in awhile. Within the limits of legality.
I've started a few evenings with employees before, to blow off some steam. I also make sure to bail before they get going too hard... usually when they head to the 2nd venue of the night.
I also don't have a bunch of minors or 23 year old snotnoses in my department. Everyone has been around the block a few times.
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Ptilk
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I think I can see from some of the responses (not to mention the OP) why I didn't fit into the corporate world. 
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Cawlin
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He gets points for honesty I guess
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Ptilk posted:
I think I can see from some of the responses (not to mention the OP) why I didn't fit into the corporate world.
It's not so much a corporate world issue, it's a "you never know who is keeping tabs on you" issue. I've been out drinking with bosses who've said "You better call out sick tomorrow like I'm going to!" but they meant call out "sick" not call out "hungover".
You never know who is just out there waiting to snag you for this sort of thing - even though it is perfectly understandable, you Outposters of all people should know how things can be made to look out of context - you all fkn deliberately do that in every single thread around here ffs...
Even in an "unprofessional" job, I would never call out "hungover" - it's just asking for trouble.
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Ashmaele
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He gets points for honesty I guess
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It applies to more than just the corporate world. Even a small business could be affected thusly: Two guys work in a warehouse together. A truck comes in that must be unloaded by hand. There is no one who can unload the truck other than these two guys. However, only one guy is actually in the warehouse when this truck comes in. The other is not at work because his irresponsible and thoughtless ass decided to get wasted the night before. So the one guy in the warehouse who IS responsible is 'rewarded' by getting the opportunity to do the work of two people. grats to him!
I would question whether or not any person ever worked a day in his life if he/she doesn't at least do a double take at the notion that someone would put something like this in writing. That alone shows pitiful judgment, whether or not his actions were excusable or understandable.
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Allstarslacker
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When I wake up hungover I go to work anyway, and I do manual labor.
Guy sounds like a pussy.
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Sea_of_inK
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He gets points for honesty I guess
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Being really hungover gets you an extra 15 minutes to be late... tops.
I've had managers that I would have been honest with because they would understand, but I probably would have been more tongue in cheek about it and not explicitly mention 'drinks'. Some people lack finesse. Judging by the reaction, he's probably an idiot.
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IMHO
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Allstarslacker posted:
When I wake up hungover I go to work anyway, and I do manual labor.
Guy sounds like a pussy.
this.
Hell, I've been out drinking until 6:30am and still punched in at 7am.
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Clackdor
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Ashmaele posted:
It applies to more than just the corporate world. Even a small business could be affected thusly: Two guys work in a warehouse together. A truck comes in that must be unloaded by hand. There is no one who can unload the truck other than these two guys. However, only one guy is actually in the warehouse when this truck comes in. The other is not at work because his irresponsible and thoughtless ass decided to get wasted the night before. So the one guy in the warehouse who IS responsible is 'rewarded' by getting the opportunity to do the work of two people. grats to him!
I would question whether or not any person ever worked a day in his life if he/she doesn't at least do a double take at the notion that someone would put something like this in writing. That alone shows pitiful judgment, whether or not his actions were excusable or understandable.
Poor reasoning. If the above example ever happens, then it is actually poor management. There should be a fall back position just in case the sick call is legitimate and to account for vacation. You cannot count on every person to be there every day.
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Cawlin
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He gets points for honesty I guess
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Clackdor posted:
Ashmaele posted:
It applies to more than just the corporate world. Even a small business could be affected thusly: Two guys work in a warehouse together. A truck comes in that must be unloaded by hand. There is no one who can unload the truck other than these two guys. However, only one guy is actually in the warehouse when this truck comes in. The other is not at work because his irresponsible and thoughtless ass decided to get wasted the night before. So the one guy in the warehouse who IS responsible is 'rewarded' by getting the opportunity to do the work of two people. grats to him!
I would question whether or not any person ever worked a day in his life if he/she doesn't at least do a double take at the notion that someone would put something like this in writing. That alone shows pitiful judgment, whether or not his actions were excusable or understandable.
Poor reasoning. If the above example ever happens, then it is actually poor management. There should be a fall back position just in case the sick call is legitimate and to account for vacation. You cannot count on every person to be there every day.
Doesn't change the fact that it shows terrible judgement to commit such a thing to writing.
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Ptilk
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See, we are going to have to agree that we don't have the same outlook on this at all.
I don't see being honest and saying "oops, I screwed up" as being any worse than lying and saying, "My car wont start, be there as soon as the AAA gets here".
I fully expect everyone I work with, or who work for me....to be human. Unless there is a history of "being human" frequently, I don't care. I'd just be like, "Thanks for the laugh, I'll be sure to razz you a bit about it".
Hell, one of the few corporate jobs I ever held for more than a month or two, my regional director got wasted during a late night meeting we had for senior managers (quite a few others got wasted as well), we all poured into cabs and headed back to our respective hotels, showed up at the office in the morning, and he was passed out on the floor in his office..wearing nothing but a pair of red boxers and cowboy boots. It was fricken hilarious, and we all laughed about it for years. No big deal, even though it did throw the rest of the day off as we had to wait a couple of hours for him to get up, go home, shower, dress and return.
It wasn't a habit, dude was good at his job. No biggie. A few of the people there started to make a bit of a fuss over it, but luckily, they were quickly drowned out by those of us who didn't give a damn, and who also happened to be senior to them in position and authority.
That was the exception to my jobs however. If you dared to need an hour off for cancer surgery at the job where I took my one try at actually being a working engineer, you might as well quit that day, your career was over and everyone would have treated you as a pariah for the rest of your time there. How dare you inconvenience the rest of us with your needing to stop dying and stuff? 
I get it though, I would never fit into most "business" environments. I just don't know how to act like I give a damn about little stuff. Strangely, this attitude was never a problem in the military. In fact, it was probably an asset and why I did so well despite my questionable "teamwork" attitude.
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Eager_Igraine
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He gets points for honesty I guess
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Ashmaele posted:
Kent
Maybe I'm being obtuse but if you aren't his supervisor, why do you care?
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IMHO
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He gets points for honesty I guess
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Eager_Igraine posted:
Ashmaele posted:
Kent
Maybe I'm being obtuse but if you aren't his supervisor, why do you care?
He sent it from Ash's Cel Phone?
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Cawlin
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Ptilk posted:
See, we are going to have to agree that we don't have the same outlook on this at all.
I don't see being honest and saying "oops, I screwed up" as being any worse than lying and saying, "My car wont start, be there as soon as the AAA gets here".
I fully expect everyone I work with, or who work for me....to be human. Unless there is a history of "being human" frequently, I don't care. I'd just be like, "Thanks for the laugh, I'll be sure to razz you a bit about it".
Hell, one of the few corporate jobs I ever held for more than a month or two, my regional director got wasted during a late night meeting we had for senior managers (quite a few others got wasted as well), we all poured into cabs and headed back to our respective hotels, showed up at the office in the morning, and he was passed out on the floor in his office..wearing nothing but a pair of red boxers and cowboy boots. It was fricken hilarious, and we all laughed about it for years. No big deal, even though it did throw the rest of the day off as we had to wait a couple of hours for him to get up, go home, shower, dress and return.
It wasn't a habit, dude was good at his job. No biggie. A few of the people there started to make a bit of a fuss over it, but luckily, they were quickly drowned out by those of us who didn't give a damn, and who also happened to be senior to them in position and authority.
That was the exception to my jobs however. If you dared to need an hour off for cancer surgery at the job where I took my one try at actually being a working engineer, you might as well quit that day, your career was over and everyone would have treated you as a pariah for the rest of your time there. How dare you inconvenience the rest of us with your needing to stop dying and stuff?
I get it though, I would never fit into most "business" environments. I just don't know how to act like I give a damn about little stuff. Strangely, this attitude was never a problem in the military. In fact, it was probably an asset and why I did so well despite my questionable "teamwork" attitude.
If everyone were like you, I would wholeheartedly agree. Fact is, not everyone is like you. Again, it's not a corporate issue. Imagine if you work on a labor crew - small time operation - say a roofing crew like the one I was on in college - and you're the low man on the totem pole - the dude who has to do all the siht work - clean up the shingle parts from the tearoff, hump all the shingle bundles up the ladder, etc. and so on. If you call out sick on Friday morning, the other guys will get the roof done, they just won't get it done by 3, and one of them will have to do the siht work. They will be bummed, but they will understand (mostly) that you were sick and not think particularly less of you for it.
However, if you sent a text to your boss and the crew saying "hung over, will be late/out today", I would not expect that to be received by the rest of the crew with a bit of jocularity.
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Ashmaele
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Clackdor posted:
Ashmaele posted:
It applies to more than just the corporate world. Even a small business could be affected thusly: Two guys work in a warehouse together. A truck comes in that must be unloaded by hand. There is no one who can unload the truck other than these two guys. However, only one guy is actually in the warehouse when this truck comes in. The other is not at work because his irresponsible and thoughtless ass decided to get wasted the night before. So the one guy in the warehouse who IS responsible is 'rewarded' by getting the opportunity to do the work of two people. grats to him!
I would question whether or not any person ever worked a day in his life if he/she doesn't at least do a double take at the notion that someone would put something like this in writing. That alone shows pitiful judgment, whether or not his actions were excusable or understandable.
Poor reasoning. If the above example ever happens, then it is actually poor management. There should be a fall back position just in case the sick call is legitimate and to account for vacation. You cannot count on every person to be there every day.
No, you can't. You also can't keep one extra person on staff just in case a truck comes in. That's poor management. And but for irresponsible asshead's irresponsibility you don't need an extra person.
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Ashmaele
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He gets points for honesty I guess
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Eager_Igraine posted:
Ashmaele posted:
Kent
Maybe I'm being obtuse but if you aren't his supervisor, why do you care?
I am pretty much the entire HR department at work, all this crap goes through me even though I don't directly supervise everyone.
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IMHO
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Ashmaele posted:
Eager_Igraine posted:
Ashmaele posted:
Kent
Maybe I'm being obtuse but if you aren't his supervisor, why do you care?
I am pretty much the entire HR department at work, all this crap goes through me even though I don't directly supervise everyone.
 
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He's [Manegarm] like the Fred Phelps of atheism. ~Bubbledude
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Ashmaele
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He gets points for honesty I guess
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Okay everyone into the conference room now
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Ptilk
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Sure it would. I've worked tons of crap jobs, most of them in kitchens, and people calling out for being "too hung over to walk" was a fairly common experience.
That meant everyone had to pick up the drunk asses slack and work harder and longer because he was home nursing a sore head from drinking too much. No biggie, next week, someone else got a turn. Unless it was frequently the same person....no one gave a damn. Hell, if you only did it once a year after your bday, you would probably be considered employee of the year.
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Eager_Igraine
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Ashmaele posted:
Eager_Igraine posted:
Ashmaele posted:
Kent
Maybe I'm being obtuse but if you aren't his supervisor, why do you care?
I am pretty much the entire HR department at work, all this crap goes through me even though I don't directly supervise everyone.
Ah gotcha. Well you would know more about this kind of stuff than I would, but do companies staff for 100% workload on employees? I have always assumed some designed amount of additional manpower to deal with unforeseen crises. I know when we put together BOMs, we figure out what is needed and then add 10% because shit never goes as planned.
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Cawlin
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He gets points for honesty I guess
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Ptilk posted:
Sure it would. I've worked tons of crap jobs, most of them in kitchens, and people calling out for being "too hung over to walk" was a fairly common experience.
That meant everyone had to pick up the drunk asses slack and work harder and longer because he was home nursing a sore head from drinking too much. No biggie, next week, someone else got a turn. Unless it was frequently the same person....no one gave a damn. Hell, if you only did it once a year after your bday, you would probably be considered employee of the year.
My best friend owns a restaurant in a shore point town. When he was in his 20s and early 30s he would be frequently hung over or even still wasted from the night before when he showed up first in the morning to open the place up. He has a dim view of people calling out "hung over" because they are too stupid to call out "sick". Trust me when I tell you that this dude's restaurant is not a very uptight place to work.
It shows poor judgement, period, in any working environment, to put in writing that you're calling out or late because of being hung over, it's as simple as that.
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Kjarhall
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He gets points for honesty I guess
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I wouldn't even call you at all, i'd just show up late and say "Sorry, i'm late". Period.
The fact that it happens once a year, if that, doesn't warrant ANY explanation, imo. If it happens alot, then few explanations will suffice.
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hah! true story tho i'm a woman an i even love boobs..how can you not??- HallowEve
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-Espiritu-
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He gets points for honesty I guess
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As a small businessowner with employees, I would have responded by telling him to just come in at 1:00 and work a half day. When he got in I would have everyone sing happy birthday to him, loud and annoying.
On Monday I would have him in my office with an idea of how he can make the time up to me.
I know you can't do this stuff in big companies, but my office is small enough where I can do this.
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Espiritu - SWTOR (retired)
Espiritu (MajorMUD, UO, DAoC, SB, FFXI, WoW, WAR, Travian, SC2, SWTOR)
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Jorrdan
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He gets points for honesty I guess
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Ptilk posted:
Sure it would. I've worked tons of crap jobs, most of them in kitchens, and people calling out for being "too hung over to walk" was a fairly common experience.
That meant everyone had to pick up the drunk asses slack and work harder and longer because he was home nursing a sore head from drinking too much. No biggie, next week, someone else got a turn. Unless it was frequently the same person....no one gave a damn. Hell, if you only did it once a year after your bday, you would probably be considered employee of the year.
It must be nice to work in this utopia. In my world, everyone is always worried that "someone is getting something they are not". Particularly if they work in tech support. WTF, the tech writers come and go as they please? Oh, hell no. They should work a shift like we do...be here 8 straight hours ALL the time, with a one hour STRICT lunch break and THAT'S THAT. (Never mind they are out smoking every hour on the hour)
Nobody picks up slack for noone else and if you call in "hungover", you can bet your ass noone is going to give you good natured grief. Instead, they are going to ask why is it okay if YOU go out and get drunk and then take a "sick" day. So, yes. Much better to call or write in "sick". They might know you are not really sick but they sure as hell can't prove it. Unless, of course, you are stupid enough to actually put it in writing and SAY you were out drinking the night before.
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Eh.
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Ashmaele
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He gets points for honesty I guess
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Kjarhall posted:
I wouldn't even call you at all, i'd just show up late and say "Sorry, i'm late". Period.
The fact that it happens once a year, if that, doesn't warrant ANY explanation, imo. If it happens alot, then few explanations will suffice.
I can think of literally dozens of better things to say than "IM HUNGOVER LOLZ C U N A BIT!"
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Eager_Igraine
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He gets points for honesty I guess
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Jorrdan posted:
It must be nice to work in this utopia. In my world, everyone is always worried that "someone is getting something they are not". Particularly if they work in tech support. WTF, the tech writers come and go as they please? Oh, hell no. They should work a shift like we do...be here 8 straight hours ALL the time, with a one hour STRICT lunch break and THAT'S THAT. (Never mind they are out smoking every hour on the hour)
Nobody picks up slack for noone else and if you call in "hungover", you can bet your ass noone is going to give you good natured grief. Instead, they are going to ask why is it okay if YOU go out and get drunk and then take a "sick" day. So, yes. Much better to call or write in "sick". They might know you are not really sick but they sure as hell can't prove it. Unless, of course, you are stupid enough to actually put it in writing and SAY you were out drinking the night before.
WTF kind of hell hole do you work in? I would hate working for a company like that.
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Bonzoboy1
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He gets points for honesty I guess
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If he were truly honest the email would have read
"Out drinking late on my bday, still shitfaced but will be in as soon as I stop yaking."
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Jorrdan
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He gets points for honesty I guess
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Eager_Igraine posted:
Jorrdan posted:
It must be nice to work in this utopia. In my world, everyone is always worried that "someone is getting something they are not". Particularly if they work in tech support. WTF, the tech writers come and go as they please? Oh, hell no. They should work a shift like we do...be here 8 straight hours ALL the time, with a one hour STRICT lunch break and THAT'S THAT. (Never mind they are out smoking every hour on the hour)
Nobody picks up slack for noone else and if you call in "hungover", you can bet your ass noone is going to give you good natured grief. Instead, they are going to ask why is it okay if YOU go out and get drunk and then take a "sick" day. So, yes. Much better to call or write in "sick". They might know you are not really sick but they sure as hell can't prove it. Unless, of course, you are stupid enough to actually put it in writing and SAY you were out drinking the night before.
WTF kind of hell hole do you work in? I would hate working for a company like that.
This has actually been my experience with most tech support departments and at more than one job. They don't outright SAY that stuff...but they are always watching. Worried that they have to do more or someone else is getting more.  Example: I once had a tech support manager ask my VP (whom I report to), "Sooooo...what hours does Jorrdan actually work? Every time I go to her desk I can't seem to catch her." Translation: Her passive aggressive way of asking or "telling on me". WTF, Jorrdan doesn't work regular hours like me?! QQ
Luckily, I don't give a shit (and my VP doesn't either) and do not report to her or that department. However, I do concern myself with "appearances". Hence, I don't put unprofessional stuff in writing. Lest they have a valid complaint.
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Eh.
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Ptilk
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He gets points for honesty I guess
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Like I said, I don't fit into most any "business" environment. After the military, I worked a variety of "crap" jobs where showing up not drunk, mostly sorta on time, and on most of the days you were scheduled was considered outstanding performance. I also worked sales jobs, which although they wouldn't be considered "crap" by most people because of the compensation, they really were. You could walk out of a job at 10AM and have another one right after lunch. As long as you produced, no one gave a damn if you showed up or not most of the time.
I tried the "professional" world for a short time. Didn't work for me as an employee except for one wonderful example that I was too stupid to know was an exception and I left it for more money at a horrible company.
I ended up working for myself for the last decade or so of my working years, and that was much better. I didn't hate work and didn't have to worry about what the other people working there thought about me.
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Eager_Igraine
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He gets points for honesty I guess
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Jorrdan posted:
This has actually been my experience with most tech support departments and at more than one job. They don't outright SAY that stuff...but they are always watching. Worried that they have to do more or someone else is getting more. Example: I once had a tech support manager ask my VP (whom I report to), "Sooooo...what hours does Jorrdan actually work? Every time I go to her desk I can't seem to catch her." Translation: Her passive aggressive way of asking or "telling on me". WTF, Jorrdan doesn't work regular hours like me?! QQ
Luckily, I don't give a shit (and my VP doesn't either) and do not report to her or that department. However, I do concern myself with "appearances". Hence, I don't put unprofessional stuff in writing. Lest they have a valid complaint.
Ah well, different business I suppose. I have a general framework of when I should be in the office, but I only get paid for hours I can bill. As long as the company can bill my hours to the client, it doesn't matter so much when I show up or when I leave.
The company environment has always been a key aspect for me. If I have to be around folks for 40-50 hours a week, they have to be a cool bunch of folks or at least we all have to get along well enough. I got enough of the crappy corporate backstabbing environment in the service and I won't do that again.
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I know what you're trying to do but you're just sailing another failboat over the falls. - imaloon1
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Elkad
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He gets points for honesty I guess
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My boss prior to this one didn't even care why you were absent.
I call in 5 minutes before my shift. Conversation went like this every time.
Boss: "Boss here"
Me: "Hi Boss, it's Elkad. I can't make it in today."
Boss: "Alrighty" - Click.
He might ask next time I worked, but not usually.
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imaloon1
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He gets points for honesty I guess
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I must have broken something.... I sincerely do not care about this.... at all...
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The time draws nearer to your fate
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