Scarne
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Woman won't face charges after admitting she lied about father raping her
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http://www.wwltv.com/around-the-web/Man-released-after-11-years-in-jail-after-daughter-admits-rape-claim-was-a-lie-145871615.html
Hopefully he didn't get too much of the vigilante justice that almost everyone seems to cheer on about child rapists in jail. 
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Ashmaele
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Woman won't face charges after admitting she lied about father raping her
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Sad, sickening case. What kind of person could keep a lie like this going all those years?
Also,
Prosecutors said if they were to charge Cassandra Kennedy with a crime, it might discourage people from coming forward about their fabricated claims in the future, potentially leaving innocent men and women behind bars.
Refusal by officials to enforce the law is also disgusting.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Ashmaele posted:
Refusal by officials to enforce the law is also disgusting.
Whatever public official said that should be summarily fired.
And the appropriate charges should then be brought against the defrauder and perjurer.
There are just a few simple laws needed in society. Perverting them like this creates a (rightful) sense of inequity and feeling among people they can simply ignore the system because it is, itself, fraudulent and capricious.
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Cawlin
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Woman won't face charges after admitting she lied about father raping her
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Thearticle posted:
No, Cassandra told police, her father never touched her. For nearly a decade, she said, her father had been sitting in prison based on her lies...
...Cassandra said she got the idea of setting up her father from a friend whose stepfather was sent to prison for a child sex crime. "I thought that is what I would do to make my dad go away," she told police in January.
Thearticle posted:
Asked if there had been missteps in the initial investigation, Baur said she has recently reviewed a recording of the little girl's testimony and has been rethinking every detail of the case. She noted that 12 jurors found enough evidence at the time to convict Kennedy and that the conduct of prosecutors, defense attorneys and Judge Warme was upheld by the appeals court.
Pretty scary when the standard for evidence is such as it is in this case that you can be sentenced to become a human toilet over it...
I have a couple of friends who are corrections officers, and according to them, pretty much everything you can imagine or ever heard about, and worse awaits those convicted of sex crimes against kids.
Also, I am sure the courts will be after this guy for his back child support too... because you know... it's only fair.
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Special-Fred
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I expect he'l be going back to prison for the murder of that little bitch.
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Ashmaele
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Woman won't face charges after admitting she lied about father raping her
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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
Ashmaele posted:
Refusal by officials to enforce the law is also disgusting.
Whatever public official said that should be summarily fired.
And the appropriate charges should then be brought against the defrauder and perjurer.
There are just a few simple laws needed in society. Perverting them like this creates a (rightful) sense of inequity and feeling among people they can simply ignore the system because it is, itself, fraudulent and capricious.
When Dumblewhore lied to CPS to have me investigated, I was given the same excuse in the story as to why that law is never enforced ("If people were prosecuted for lying to CPS, fewer people might report people to CPS for fear of getting into trouble") 
It's a felony. Do your job or gtfo.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Yup Cawlin. My dad was a cop, his brother in corrections. That's what taints my answer.
This is just... horribad. It's the kind of thing that should result in scores of people being drug out on the carpet, some careers ruined, and the wrongfully conficted victim being set up for life. (Because one way or another, after that long with that tag, their life is quite ruined).
Instead... well... we get this.
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Yukishiro1
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Ashmaele posted:
Also,
Prosecutors said if they were to charge Cassandra Kennedy with a crime, it might discourage people from coming forward about their fabricated claims in the future, potentially leaving innocent men and women behind bars.
Refusal by officials to enforce the law is also disgusting.
I actually think that's a pretty good point. Do you really want to punish her for coming forward by throwing her in jail?
In these particular circumstances where she ended up confessing herself I think not charging her makes sense.
Also, there are probably hundreds of thousands of people in jail right now on as much or less evidence than he got convicted on. Juries care a lot about victim testimony. I don't think the legal apparatus really did anything wrong unless there were clear signs she was lying that people overlooked.
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Scarne
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In this specific case, the fact that she was 11 when she made the claims also factors into not being charged.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Scarne posted:
In this specific case, the fact that she was 11 when she made the claims also factors into not being charged.
There are several years between 18 and 23.
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Cawlin
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Ashmaele posted:
Also,
Prosecutors said if they were to charge Cassandra Kennedy with a crime, it might discourage people from coming forward about their fabricated claims in the future, potentially leaving innocent men and women behind bars.
Refusal by officials to enforce the law is also disgusting.
I actually think that's a pretty good point. Do you really want to punish her for coming forward by throwing her in jail?
In these particular circumstances where she ended up confessing herself I think not charging her makes sense.
Also, there are probably hundreds of thousands of people in jail right now on as much or less evidence than he got convicted on. Juries care a lot about victim testimony. I don't think the legal apparatus really did anything wrong unless there were clear signs she was lying that people overlooked.
This is a he-said, she-said case. There was presumably no other evidence than two completely conflicting stories. Anyone "corroborating" the girl's story was obviously lying, or offering testimony that could not have been material in determining this guy's guilt or innocence.
It's appalling really.
Scarne posted:
In this specific case, the fact that she was 11 when she made the claims also factors into not being charged.
But yet, the fact that she presumably cannot be held legally responsible for testimony given at age 11 apparently had no bearing on the veracity or weight of the testimony she gave - double standard much? Talk about a horrible circle of anti-logic.
I honestly understand everyone's righteous (and it is righteous) indignation against sex offenders, especially those who commit those acts against children, but it takes a special lack of humanity to think that what went down here (if this story is indeed true) is just "OK" or "an unavoidable and necessary byproduct of the system".
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Yukishiro1
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Uh people get convicted based on he said-she said all the time. I don't know what country you're living in but it apparently isn't America.
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Cawlin
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Uh people get convicted based on he said-she said all the time. I don't know what country you're living in but it apparently isn't America.
Yes, but that doesn't make it OK, or even tolerable.
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Yukishiro1
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If you want to pass some constitutional amendment saying no one can be convicted without physical evidence go for it I guess.
Eyewitness testimony is one of the oldest and most established bases for a criminal conviction. I agree it is problematic for a variety of reasons but it's effective because people believe it.
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Cawlin
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Yukishiro1 posted:
If you want to pass some constitutional amendment saying no one can be convicted without physical evidence go for it I guess.
Eyewitness testimony is one of the oldest and most established bases for a criminal conviction. I agree it is problematic for a variety of reasons but it's effective because people believe it.
The only "eyewitness" in this case was basically the plaintiff. It would be different if there were multiple other "eyewitnesses". However, in this case, any others that might have been were obviously lying... the article doesn't mention that there were others, and I don't know any of the details of the original case, so I can't say, but doesn't it give you the least bit of consternation or even pause to think that this guy was convicted, and you KNOW what happened to him during 11 years of prison, on that single fabricated testimony alone?
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GrilledCheez
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He basically went to jail for being a crappy father. I'll hold off on the outrage.
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Ashmaele
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Yukishiro1 posted:
I actually think that's a pretty good point. Do you really want to punish her for coming forward by throwing her in jail?
In these particular circumstances where she ended up confessing herself I think not charging her makes sense.
I see your point. However, you could easily turn that on its head. Doesn't NOT punishing this girl simply encourage more people to falsely accuse people of heinous crimes?
You can argue the merits of charging v. not charging, and there are indeed merits both ways, but what does the law say?
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Cawlin posted:
but doesn't it give you the least bit of consternation or even pause to think that this guy was convicted, and you KNOW what happened to him during 11 years of prison, on that single fabricated testimony alone?
Of course it does. Although if the problem is him getting buttraped in prison it seems like the problem is him getting buttraped in prison. Unlike most of you people I don't believe it's ok and cool that people get buttraped in prison, no matter what they did.
I am not sure what your emotional angst translates to in real terms, though. Are you suggesting as a matter of law victim testimony shouldn't be admissible? Or that it shouldn't be enough on its own to secure a conviction?
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Yukishiro1
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Ashmaele posted:
Doesn't NOT punishing this girl simply encourage more people to falsely accuse people of heinous crimes?
I don't think too many 11 year olds are going to see this story and think "oh! I'll do that too! And they won't punish me if I just wait 10 years and then confess on my own!"
It is really a pretty unique set of circumstances. The message sent by punishing her for finally coming clean and getting the innocent guy out is worse than the message sent by not punishing her.
It would be very different if she had been older at the time or if they had found out some other way.
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Cawlin
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Cawlin posted:
but doesn't it give you the least bit of consternation or even pause to think that this guy was convicted, and you KNOW what happened to him during 11 years of prison, on that single fabricated testimony alone?
Of course it does. Although if the problem is him getting buttraped in prison it seems like the problem is him getting buttraped in prison. Unlike most of you people I don't believe it's ok and cool that people get buttraped in prison, no matter what they did.
I agree. Though it's more than being raped - which will happen daily or nearly so, and with potentially dozens of people. It includes being beaten repeatedly. It includes living under constant stress of knowing you're about to be gangraped AGAIN, after lunch, because when it happened after breakfast, the other guys didn't get a chance at you, or beaten to the point that you spend another 3 months in the infirmary, or that you may be crippled for life... now imagine the stress of living under those sorts of threats when you know you're innocent...
Yukishiro1 posted:
I am not sure what your emotional angst translates to in real terms, though. Are you suggesting as a matter of law victim testimony shouldn't be admissible? Or that it shouldn't be enough on its own to secure a conviction?
I think that until we can ensure that prisons aren't as violent as they are, that there should be sentencing restrictions or reviews for cases such as this when there is only he-said, she-said evidence. Perhaps separate prisons with essentially solitary confinement or at least sequestering and HEAVY guard watching what's going on at every minute. My friends who are COs tell me there's only so much that they can stop.
Until or unless America is prepared to deal with prisons like this, then maybe we need to consider how many fkn people we're putting into prison in the first place.
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The Men's Rights Movement is going to explode over this one. And her getting off scott free as an excuse to free other criminal liars from inhibition of coming forward is a non starter because ethically it is an abomination. Hey, no problem, come forward if you want or don't want. Nothing will happen to you either way!  At bare minimum the he said, she said paradigm must go. You either have hard physical evidence or GTFO.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Same crap different reply about being a minor at the time
Abaddon posted:
There are a lot of years between 17 and 23.
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Woman won't face charges after admitting she lied about father raping her
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Cawlin posted:
I think that until we can ensure that prisons aren't as violent as they are, that there should be sentencing restrictions or reviews for cases such as this when there is only he-said, she-said evidence. Perhaps separate prisons with essentially solitary confinement or at least sequestering and HEAVY guard watching what's going on at every minute. My friends who are COs tell me there's only so much that they can stop.
Until or unless America is prepared to deal with prisons like this, then maybe we need to consider how many fkn people we're putting into prison in the first place.
I agree with both of those but it has nothing to do with he-said she-said. Why should be tolerate people being buttraped as long as there was physical evidence, but not tolerate it if there wasn't? That doesn't make any sense.
Also you are grossly exaggerating things. Rapes in prisons are common but not an everyday occurence or anything like it.
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Coriolus
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She is just pissed he didn't reciprocate after she went down on him.. #BaDaBoom!
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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
Yukishiro1 posted:
Same crap different reply about being a minor at the time
Abaddon posted:
There are a lot of years between 17 and 23.
So where's the cuttoff? If you wait until 19 is that too late?
As usual your post is pretty much meaningless arghelbarghle. She became an adult long after the trial was done and dusted. There isn't some magic light that comes on in someone's head when they turn 18 that tells them they have to rectify mistakes they made as a kid.
It is good she came forward now. It would be better if she had done it earlier. But punishing her for coming forward now doesn't really solve anything. No 11 year old is going to be deterred from lying because someone confessed 10 years later and then got punished for it. But there are plenty of people who may be in her position who would be deterred from coming clean if they knew they were going to be punished for it.
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Cawlin
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Woman won't face charges after admitting she lied about father raping her
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Cawlin posted:
I think that until we can ensure that prisons aren't as violent as they are, that there should be sentencing restrictions or reviews for cases such as this when there is only he-said, she-said evidence. Perhaps separate prisons with essentially solitary confinement or at least sequestering and HEAVY guard watching what's going on at every minute. My friends who are COs tell me there's only so much that they can stop.
Until or unless America is prepared to deal with prisons like this, then maybe we need to consider how many fkn people we're putting into prison in the first place.
I agree with both of those but it has nothing to do with he-said she-said. Why should be tolerate people being buttraped as long as there was physical evidence, but not tolerate it if there wasn't? That doesn't make any sense.
Also you are grossly exaggerating things. Rapes in prisons are common but not an everyday occurence or anything like it.
We shouldn't tolerate it at all, period.
Further, I am not grossly exaggerating anything lol.
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Kjarhall
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Wait a second...
They convicted this guy solely off an 11 year olds testimony??
11 year olds lie. I wouldn't charge her for it. What i would do is launch an investigation on how exactly they managed to send this guy to jail with no evidence, and only an 11 year olds story.
Or there's also the possibility that she's lying NOW.
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Cawlin
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Woman won't face charges after admitting she lied about father raping her
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Kjarhall posted:
Wait a second...
They convicted this guy solely off an 11 year olds testimony??
11 year olds lie. I wouldn't charge her for it. What i would do is launch an investigation on how exactly they managed to send this guy to jail with no evidence, and only an 11 year olds story.
Or there's also the possibility that she's lying NOW.
Welcome to the American legal system dude... still better than the Italians at least lol...
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Yukishiro1
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A bunch of people were obviously convinced by the testimony of the 11 year old.
It's sad but it doesn't seem that far fetched to me. People get very protective of children, especially when the accusation is of sex crimes, and especially when it's a girl.
Most people hearing an 11 year old girl testifying about how she was raped are not going to be sitting back sceptically with their arms crossed.
The dad is probably a sleazebag and she probably looked like an angel.
All this stuff affects humans profoundly.
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Cawlin
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Woman won't face charges after admitting she lied about father raping her
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Yukishiro1 posted:
A bunch of people were obviously convinced by the testimony of the 11 year old.
It's sad but it doesn't seem that far fetched to me. People get very protective of children, especially when the accusation is of sex crimes, and especially when it's a girl.
Most people hearing an 11 year old girl testifying about how she was raped are not going to be sitting back sceptically with their arms crossed.
The dad is probably a sleazebag and she probably looked like an angel.
All this stuff affects humans profoundly.
If being a sleazebag was grounds for incarceration, we would have to elect an entire new government before the year was out...
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And a lot of young girls all over the country just got reminded of how easy it is to get rid of your father or step father when he wont buy you that pony....
If you even hint at child molestation, the person who is hinted at is screwed forever. Some people out there are probably enraged right now because they think the young woman is repressing her memories and he actually did rape her and is now getting off. He better change his name and run away fast, or some crazy bastard is going to kill him.
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Ashmaele
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Woman won't face charges after admitting she lied about father raping her
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Ashmaele posted:
Doesn't NOT punishing this girl simply encourage more people to falsely accuse people of heinous crimes?
I don't think too many 11 year olds are going to see this story and think "oh! I'll do that too! And they won't punish me if I just wait 10 years and then confess on my own!"
It is really a pretty unique set of circumstances. The message sent by punishing her for finally coming clean and getting the innocent guy out is worse than the message sent by not punishing her.
It would be very different if she had been older at the time or if they had found out some other way.
Where did officials cite the liar's age as a reason behind their decision not to file charges? Neither her age nor the uniqueness of the circumstances were mentioned.
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Woman won't face charges after admitting she lied about father raping her
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Ptilk posted:
And a lot of young girls all over the country just got reminded of how easy it is to get rid of your father or step father when he wont buy you that pony....
If you even hint at child molestation, the person who is hinted at is screwed forever. Some people out there are probably enraged right now because they think the young woman is repressing her memories and he actually did rape her and is now getting off. He better change his name and run away fast, or some crazy bastard is going to kill him.
Ashmaele posted:
Yukishiro1 posted:
Ashmaele posted:
Doesn't NOT punishing this girl simply encourage more people to falsely accuse people of heinous crimes?
I don't think too many 11 year olds are going to see this story and think "oh! I'll do that too! And they won't punish me if I just wait 10 years and then confess on my own!"
It is really a pretty unique set of circumstances. The message sent by punishing her for finally coming clean and getting the innocent guy out is worse than the message sent by not punishing her.
It would be very different if she had been older at the time or if they had found out some other way.
Where did officials cite the liar's age as a reason behind their decision not to file charges? Neither her age nor the uniqueness of the circumstances were mentioned.
Nowhere lol.
The reality is that an indictment of this woman is an indictment of the entire American judicial system.
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Yukishiro1
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Uh it says right in your article that they don't want to prosecute her because of fears of what message it might send to "people in similar circumstances."
I'm sorry you can't read.
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Uh it says right in your article that they don't want to prosecute her because of fears of what message it might send to "people in similar circumstances."
I'm sorry you can't read.
You ought to be careful. You can injure yourself reaching that far... shouldn't overdo it with the stretching.
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Ball's Maxim in action!
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Uh it says right in your article that they don't want to prosecute her because of fears of what message it might send to "people in similar circumstances."
I'm sorry you can't read.
Who is "people in similar circumstances"? Someone who didn't rape anyone?
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MatrexMistwalker
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DA has a web page with contact info... feel free to email or call to express your dislike of the situation..
It is a bad situation... but to let her walk away without even a blemish on her record seems... really wrong.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
Yukishiro1 posted:
Same crap different reply about being a minor at the time
Abaddon posted:
There are a lot of years between 17 and 23.
So where's the cuttoff? If you wait until 19 is that too late?
If age is the excuse, once you hit the age of majority (usually 17 or 18) that excuse you're eager to throw around goes away.
Maybe 49? Is that how old Clinton was when he perjured himself?
Where's the line?
Hell. Let's just toss the system altogether. We know it's all just a matter of style and entertainment anyway. Like Project Runway osementhe.
Is it any wonder why otherwise solid citizens throw away their lives shooting criminals on the courthouse steps?
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It's impossible to repay this man for what has been done to him, however it should start with:
1) Totally fresh identity on the order of witness protection program - he will need this in order to live in peace.
2) His name expunged from all official court and prison records involving this case.
3) Financial compensation such that he is afforded a very comfortable lifestyle for the rest of his life - I am thinking a very nice house in a different place, and an income on the order of $100k annually for life.
4) Health insurance covered for life which includes psychiatric counseling and therapy to help him cope with having just spent the last 10 years in Hell on Earth.
That'd be a start...
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Whatwe need to learn from this is how do we prevent this from happening.
Why did a jury convict a man based on a lie?
There is something broken in our system if it just takes a persons word or a childs tears to get you locked up.
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Cawlin posted:
It's impossible to repay this man for what has been done to him, however it should start with:
1) Totally fresh identity on the order of witness protection program - he will need this in order to live in peace.
2) His name expunged from all official court and prison records involving this case.
3) Financial compensation such that he is afforded a very comfortable lifestyle for the rest of his life - I am thinking a very nice house in a different place, and an income on the order of $100k annually for life.
4) Health insurance covered for life which includes psychiatric counseling and therapy to help him cope with having just spent the last 10 years in Hell on Earth.
That'd be a start...
That's ridiculous. The cost of living in society. Is it a bummer that this guy got screwed? Absolutely. Do I owe him something because he did? Nope. He received what he was entitled to. Due process, the chance to face his accuser, the right to a jury trial, the right to counsel.
He is far more responsible than I am for his lost years in jail.
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GrilledCheez posted:
Cawlin posted:
It's impossible to repay this man for what has been done to him, however it should start with:
1) Totally fresh identity on the order of witness protection program - he will need this in order to live in peace.
2) His name expunged from all official court and prison records involving this case.
3) Financial compensation such that he is afforded a very comfortable lifestyle for the rest of his life - I am thinking a very nice house in a different place, and an income on the order of $100k annually for life.
4) Health insurance covered for life which includes psychiatric counseling and therapy to help him cope with having just spent the last 10 years in Hell on Earth.
That'd be a start...
That's ridiculous. The cost of living in society. Is it a bummer that this guy got screwed? Absolutely. Do I owe him something because he did? Nope. He received what he was entitled to. Due process, the chance to face his accuser, the right to a jury trial, the right to counsel.
He is far more responsible than I am for his lost years in jail.
Have to agree here.
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Well i think he has a civil case against the state. Obviously the counsel he was given was bad, the police work by the stte was bad, the stte prosecutor was wrong.. He definitely has a case.
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False. You aren't entitled to perfect justice. Nobody is. That's why we spend so much time on what you ARE entitled to, because it gets us as close to guaranteed justice as possible.
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Really? Then why did oj simpson get sued in a civil court for every last dollar he has?
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hahahaha because when someone you count on or love dies you have the right to sue who was responsible. This is separate from the person's criminal rights/liabilities. They honestly have nothing to do with each other. And it also has nothing to do with the state. I absolutely think he should be able to sue his daughter if he wants.
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He can sue the police and prosecutor too. A jury would probably side with this guy.
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Ashmaele
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Woman won't face charges after admitting she lied about father raping her
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GrilledCheez posted:
Cawlin posted:
It's impossible to repay this man for what has been done to him, however it should start with:
1) Totally fresh identity on the order of witness protection program - he will need this in order to live in peace.
2) His name expunged from all official court and prison records involving this case.
3) Financial compensation such that he is afforded a very comfortable lifestyle for the rest of his life - I am thinking a very nice house in a different place, and an income on the order of $100k annually for life.
4) Health insurance covered for life which includes psychiatric counseling and therapy to help him cope with having just spent the last 10 years in Hell on Earth.
That'd be a start...
That's ridiculous. The cost of living in society. Is it a bummer that this guy got screwed? Absolutely. Do I owe him something because he did? Nope. He received what he was entitled to. Due process, the chance to face his accuser, the right to a jury trial, the right to counsel.
He is far more responsible than I am for his lost years in jail.
In this case, I agree. It was not prosecutorial misconduct that got this guy thrown in jail.
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Woman won't face charges after admitting she lied about father raping her
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Ashmaele posted:
GrilledCheez posted:
Cawlin posted:
It's impossible to repay this man for what has been done to him, however it should start with:
1) Totally fresh identity on the order of witness protection program - he will need this in order to live in peace.
2) His name expunged from all official court and prison records involving this case.
3) Financial compensation such that he is afforded a very comfortable lifestyle for the rest of his life - I am thinking a very nice house in a different place, and an income on the order of $100k annually for life.
4) Health insurance covered for life which includes psychiatric counseling and therapy to help him cope with having just spent the last 10 years in Hell on Earth.
That'd be a start...
That's ridiculous. The cost of living in society. Is it a bummer that this guy got screwed? Absolutely. Do I owe him something because he did? Nope. He received what he was entitled to. Due process, the chance to face his accuser, the right to a jury trial, the right to counsel.
He is far more responsible than I am for his lost years in jail.
In this case, I agree. It was not prosecutorial misconduct that got this guy thrown in jail.
That's a pretty big bit of faith there about there being no prosecutorial misconduct.
Further, the state financially compensates people (albeit more poorly than I have suggested above) whose convictions are later turned over by virtue of DNA evidence which was not even available at the time of their convictions.
This guy has ZERO chance at a life anywhere, but I guess that's all OK as long as it's not you who it happens to...
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eodoll posted:
He can sue the police and prosecutor too.
No you can't.
Not for simple incompetence, anyhow.
Most states do have compensation schemes set up though for paying people who were innocent. They usually end up paying you something like 60k/year you were locked up.
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You are probably exaggerating again, too. Why do you think this guy can't live anywhere any more?
I would think he would be getting a lot of sympathy. He got jailed for 11 years for something he didn't do.
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Yukishiro1 posted:
eodoll posted:
He can sue the police and prosecutor too.
No you can't.
Not for simple incompetence, anyhow.
Most states do have compensation schemes set up though for paying people who were innocent. They usually end up paying you something like 60k/year you were locked up.
And in this case, given the highly publicized nature of the crime for which this guy was convicted (which is part of the reason why such cases get prosecuted so vigorously) this dude has less than zero chance at a normal life (to say nothing of the psychological damage he will have to try to get through) based on external factors as a result of this.
Yukishiro1 posted:
You are probably exaggerating again, too. Why do you think this guy can't live anywhere any more?
I would think he would be getting a lot of sympathy. He got jailed for 11 years for something he didn't do.
Hell I'll bet his name still winds up on the sex offender roles and I'll bet the state comes after him for back child support too ffs.
There will be people who think that this guy got off on a technicality and that he's really guilty. When he goes to try to get a job at any place that runs a background check, they will see this and regardless of the truth of the matter, they will move on to the next applicant. You can pretend that this doesn't happen but it does at any job that is above minimum wage type unskilled labor work.
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Cawlin posted:
Hell I'll bet his name still winds up on the sex offender roles and I'll bet the state comes after him for back child support too ffs.
I get it, you don't really care about the guy, you just wanna arghbelbarghl some more about how unfair society is to men.
Carry on I suppose. Although I think it's in pretty poor taste to nail this poor guy who's already been though a lot to a cross for your own benefit.
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Cawlin
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Woman won't face charges after admitting she lied about father raping her
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Cawlin posted:
Hell I'll bet his name still winds up on the sex offender roles and I'll bet the state comes after him for back child support too ffs.
I get it, you don't really care about the guy, you just wanna arghbelbarghl some more about how unfair society is to men.
Carry on I suppose. Although I think it's in pretty poor taste to nail this poor guy who's already been though a lot to a cross for your own benefit.
LOL give me a break. You obviously are uncomfortable with the cavalier way this is being handled and wish to make me out to be the bad guy here.
This guy's life is RUINED FOREVER, period. Nobody is going to bother to interact with him to find out the truth of the story. After the 10 or so friends and relatives he may still have show up for his "welcome home party", who else will he interact with that won't eventually find out about this stuff? They won't stick around to find out the truth, they will assume he is guilty and got off on a technicality and just write him off as another scumbag.
Everything he might have had was gone, everything he might have become is gone, his basic humanity was taken from him in prison - based on a lie from a capricious and little girl who did what she did with malice of forethought, and a zealous prosecutor who was willing to portray sketchy "evidence" at best in order to get a high profile, "good numbers" conviction.
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Woman won't face charges after admitting she lied about father raping her
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I bet it was a scheme his daughter came up with.
"Look dad, you are a useless drunk and haven't had a job in years, so we send you to prison for a decade and then I tell them I lied. I won't get in trouble, you get a big payoff, I get a big payoff in the form of back child support which you pay with the money you get from the state for locking you up when you didn't do anything wrong. You still have enough left over to live comfortable, I get enough to start out in life. Win win. Or you can just go to jail and get butt raped, serve your time and get out with nothing. Your choice."
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Yukishiro1
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Woman won't face charges after admitting she lied about father raping her
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Cawlin posted:
This guy's life is RUINED FOREVER, period. Nobody is going to bother to interact with him to find out the truth of the story. After the 10 or so friends and relatives he may still have show up for his "welcome home party", who else will he interact with that won't eventually find out about this stuff? They won't stick around to find out the truth, they will assume he is guilty and got off on a technicality and just write him off as another scumbag.
Good lord. Emo much?
This is clearly all about validating your stupid beliefs about the world and not at all about this poor guy, who you will do nothing at all for and will have forgotten within a week. Although you certainly won't have forgotten your anger at society. At least have the honesty and integrity not to nail him to your cross when you don't give a crap about him.
You are starting to sound like Al Sharpton or something.
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Cawlin
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Woman won't face charges after admitting she lied about father raping her
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Cawlin posted:
This guy's life is RUINED FOREVER, period. Nobody is going to bother to interact with him to find out the truth of the story. After the 10 or so friends and relatives he may still have show up for his "welcome home party", who else will he interact with that won't eventually find out about this stuff? They won't stick around to find out the truth, they will assume he is guilty and got off on a technicality and just write him off as another scumbag.
Good lord. Emo much?
This is clearly all about validating your stupid beliefs about the world and not at all about this poor guy, who you will do nothing at all for and will have forgotten within a week. Although you certainly won't have forgotten your anger at society. At least have the honesty and integrity not to nail him to your cross when you don't give a crap about him.
You are starting to sound like Al Sharpton or something.
There are no "beliefs" in question here. There are facts. The facts are that an innocent man was convicted on shady, shaky, and false testimony and spent over 10 years forced into the lowest possible form of human life in prison as a result of that conviction. The fact is that his accuser later recanted her testimony, admitting it was a premeditated lie and a vicious scheme, and he was or will be released.
His life is ruined and he will lack the ability to have anything more than basic subsistence for the remainder of it. His psychological state is almost ASSUREDLY a wreck as a result as well.
So this man had pretty much everything in his life taken from him, and to some of you that's just all well and good: bummer dude, sucks to be you, sure glad that didn't happen to me.
These are the facts here. There are no beliefs about it. Just plain facts.
Maybe some of you ought to think about how easily this could happen to you and has happened to many others. Perhaps then you will see some of the problems with our justice system.
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Are you going to do anything to help this guy? Or are you just going to flog his story to validate your ideology?
So far I've seen the latter. In fact, I suspect if you're honest with yourself you're happier if is life is ruined by this than if it isn't. You sound positively gleeful as you describe your unfounded "fact" that this guy will never be able to get a decent job again and everyone is going to shun him and blah blah blha.
Which is kinda gross honestly. In a Nancy Grace sort of way.
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Woman won't face charges after admitting she lied about father raping her
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Are you going to do anything to help this guy? Or are you just going to flog his story to validate your ideology?
So far I've seen the latter. In fact, I suspect if you're honest with yourself you're happier if is life is ruined by this than if it isn't. You sound positively gleeful as you describe your unfounded "fact" that this guy will never be able to get a decent job again and everyone is going to shun him and blah blah blha.
Which is kinda gross honestly. In a Nancy Grace sort of way.
It's funny how you keep on accusing me of acting like Nancy Grace when we all know her thinking is that this guy got out on a technicality. Of course most people simply accuse others of their own flaws, so this is not unexpected.
I don't own a business that I could hire this guy to do anything.
What employment opportunities do you think will be available to him when they get through his background check?
I don't know this guy or what his qualifications might be, and to be honest those are beside the point anyway. His opportunities are now EXTREMELY limited and curtailed as a result of this, or do you think that people suddenly will just reverse themselves and stop doing what they've been doing with respect to hiring ex-cons?
I think it's our duty to beat the system up over this because this is an egregious failing of the system. If you could stop trying to blindly protect the DA and state's prosecuting team, you'd realize and admit that.
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Yukishiro1
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Woman won't face charges after admitting she lied about father raping her
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I'm sad but not surprised that we've established you're going to do nothing about this situation at all besides use it as a prop for your whining on an internet messageboard.
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GrymmDAOC
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Lotsa code blue shaming here.
Pretty standard tactics really.
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Yukishiro1
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What took you so long to show up? Did you miss the bat signal the first time?
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Cawlin
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Woman won't face charges after admitting she lied about father raping her
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GrymmDAOC posted:
Lotsa code blue shaming here.
Pretty standard tactics really.
Yep, true that.
It's really unsettling how common this is and how much a part of the status quo it is. So much so that people willingly and knowingly engage in it and STILL act surprised or offended when it is pointed out to them what they're doing... how fkn backwards can peoples' thinking get?
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Yukishiro1
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I guess I am still having a bit of trouble seeing the "Men's Rights!" angle of this one.
Someone did a horrible thing as a young child and finally fessed up to it. Some other poor person had to sit in jail for 11 years because of it.
People can arbhegbartgle about this and that but I'm not sure how you can really change things for the better. And I certainly don't think it should be flogged for ideological points by a bunch of people pedding some male victimization theory.
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GrymmDAOC
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Yukishiro1 posted:
I guess I am still having a bit of trouble seeing the "Men's Rights!" angle of this one.
Someone did a horrible thing as a young child and finally fessed up to it. Some other poor person had to sit in jail for 11 years because of it.
People can arbhegbartgle about this and that but I'm not sure how you can really change things for the better. And I certainly don't think it should be flogged for ideological points by a bunch of people pedding some male victimization theory.
Another nice little tidbit I'll tuck away for the future.
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Yukishiro1
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It must be convenient to have a self-sustaining worldview where anyone who questions you is proof that you are right.
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Moe_Nox
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She should be imprisoned for a decade.
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Cawlin
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Yukishiro1 posted:
It must be convenient to have a self-sustaining worldview where anyone who questions you is proof that you are right.
You would know.
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Groucho48
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How would tossing the girl into prison make the guy's life any better?
There are arguments for penalizing the woman and arguments against penalizing her. It comes down to a judgement call. If enough people in his area think he made the wrong call, they can vote the guy out.
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Aerlinthian
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It makes me look forward to when the Islamists take over the world and impose Sharia Law.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Moe_Nox posted:
She should be imprisoned for a decade.
I didn't go there with you and Cawlin.
However:
1) there should sure as f'ck be an independent investigation and if prosecutors, cops, defense attorneys, etc were found to be negligent, they should be outed and their careers trashed.
2) The father should have the chance to sue (and win) in civil court and essentially get an indentured servant, in the form of his daughter, for the next 8-10 years. Since, again, even after she was an adult she let him rot another 5-6 years.
It's a pittance compared to the hell he's been through. But it would be a start. And frankly, there should be some taxpayer work done in a criminal case to make the civil case open-and-shut for the guy. Yuki of course won't point that out.
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Cawlin
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Groucho48 posted:
How would tossing the girl into prison make the guy's life any better?
There are arguments for penalizing the woman and arguments against penalizing her. It comes down to a judgement call. If enough people in his area think he made the wrong call, they can vote the guy out.
There is nothing gained by tossing the girl into prison. It would not make this guy's life any better. Some attempt at repairing his life though IS in order, but eye for an eye thinking is just as bad as doing nothing for him, if not worse imo.
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Yukishiro1
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What they really ought to do is have the state or local municipality find some job he's qualified to do and give him the next opening. I don't think he needs to be set up for the rest of his life but if the argument is really about opportunity it makes sense for the gubmint to give him that opportunity that's been taken away.
He will end up with a couple hundred thousand in statutory benefits too.
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Cawlin
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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
Moe_Nox posted:
She should be imprisoned for a decade.
I didn't go there with you and Cawlin.
However:
1) there should sure as f'ck be an independent investigation and if prosecutors, cops, defense attorneys, etc were found to be negligent, they should be outed and their careers trashed.
2) The father should have the chance to sue (and win) in civil court and essentially get an indentured servant, in the form of his daughter, for the next 8-10 years. Since, again, even after she was an adult she let him rot another 5-6 years.
It's a pittance compared to the hell he's been through. But it would be a start. And frankly, there should be some taxpayer work done in a criminal case to make the civil case open-and-shut for the guy. Yuki of course won't point that out.
I'm not advocating punishing the girl, and haven't done so once. I think the evidence that was used to convict him was shady, and that his sentence was overly harsh based on the tenuous nature of the evidence. I think that the state should take some pretty goddamn big steps to try to at least set this guy on a path that he has no need to worry about the jobs he won't ever be able to get...
This girl is his daughter. He probably still loves her. What would he gain from her being punished in any way? I posted my feelings on this pretty much at the same time (or at least before I saw your post) as you posted what I'm quoting here...
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Sgian_Dubh
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Cawlin posted:
It's impossible to repay this man for what has been done to him, however it should start with:
1) Totally fresh identity on the order of witness protection program - he will need this in order to live in peace.
2) His name expunged from all official court and prison records involving this case.
3) Financial compensation such that he is afforded a very comfortable lifestyle for the rest of his life - I am thinking a very nice house in a different place, and an income on the order of $100k annually for life.
4) Health insurance covered for life which includes psychiatric counseling and therapy to help him cope with having just spent the last 10 years in Hell on Earth.
That'd be a start...
All that based on your hypothetical anecdote concerning his prison stay?
lol.
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Groucho48
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I read the link a couple days ago so I forget. Do we know if the father wants his daughter to face charges? That would carry a lot of weight with me.
Also, it did seem to me that there was fairly solid evidence that sexual abuse had taken place. Just, apparently, not by dad. Wasn't there bruising around her vagina, or something? And, her later behavior is classic behavior for someone who has been abused.
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MatrexMistwalker
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If I read it right... it happened in Washington state and they do not offer financial compensation to those wrongfully imprisoned... also read that she had tried sex with a boy around her age is why there had been indication of sexual activity.
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Yukishiro1
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Yeah apparently WA is a total douchebag state that gives wrongly imprisoned people nothing at all. WTG Bonk and Koneg! 
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Moe_Nox
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Cawlin posted:
I'm not advocating punishing the girl, and haven't done so once.
That would be the problem in my eyes.
At the very least she made a false police report. Oh, and then she followed thru with the lie for a few months of investigation, trial, and sentencing. Then 10 years more.
It cost a man 10 years of his life.
People advocating no punishment for her at all, zero, are a large part of the problem.
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Groucho48
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Moe_Nox posted:
Cawlin posted:
I'm not advocating punishing the girl, and haven't done so once.
That would be the problem in my eyes.
At the very least she made a false police report. Oh, and then she followed thru with the lie for a few months of investigation, trial, and sentencing. Then 10 years more.
It cost a man 10 years of his life.
People advocating no punishment for her at all, zero, are a large part of the problem.
That's one way of looking at it and it is a perfectly reasonable view.
But, if the girl knew she might end up in jail if she finally confessed, she very likely wouldn't have confessed and he'd still be in jail. So, you have to weigh that in the equation, which is what the prosecutor did.
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Moe_Nox
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If she knew that prison was a consequence maybe she wouldn't have lied and destroyed his life in the first place. 
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Cawlin
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Woman won't face charges after admitting she lied about father raping her
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Groucho48 posted:
Moe_Nox posted:
Cawlin posted:
I'm not advocating punishing the girl, and haven't done so once.
That would be the problem in my eyes.
At the very least she made a false police report. Oh, and then she followed thru with the lie for a few months of investigation, trial, and sentencing. Then 10 years more.
It cost a man 10 years of his life.
People advocating no punishment for her at all, zero, are a large part of the problem.
That's one way of looking at it and it is a perfectly reasonable view.
But, if the girl knew she might end up in jail if she finally confessed, she very likely wouldn't have confessed and he'd still be in jail. So, you have to weigh that in the equation, which is what the prosecutor did.
What Groucho said.
The REAL problem is that a man can be sentenced to prison for over 15 years on a total fabrication.
There is no deterrent to lying. If a man can be sentenced on nothing more than the word of an 11 year old girl, what do you think the chance or interest is for catching that girl in a lie some years later? No chance, and less than no interest. In fact there is more interest in trying to make a recanting witness out to be a liar than there is in hearing that original testimony was a lie. Punishing her at age 23 for lying when she was 11 serves no real purpose other than some sort of vengeance, and would in fact make it less likely for other liars to come forward. That's just the truth of it.
Your perspective is consistent at least, I'll give you that, but punishing the woman now quite literally does absolutely nothing.
Again, the actual problem is that this guy was sentenced so harshly on basically no evidence whatsoever.
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Moe_Nox
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Cawlin posted:
The REAL problem is that a man can be sentenced to prison for over 15 years on a total fabrication.
There is no deterrent to lying.
Your perspective is consistent at least, I'll give you that, but punishing the woman now quite literally does absolutely nothing.
Again, the actual problem is that this guy was sentenced so harshly on basically no evidence whatsoever.
I kept the parts I wanted to respond to.
Honestly I don't give a squirt of piss over this case specifically, and it is the larger effect it has on the public in general which is my concern.
So ignore the specifics of this woman being a child at the time. My concern is making sure we search for a cure or at least an improvement for this situation in general.
Duke rape case is simply high profile and well known. It can be any rape case it happens all the time. Hell, leave out the rape, make it any crime in general.
Lying in police reports and court testimony needs greater consequences than what we have now.
Risking a year in jail for perjury while trying to get a wrongful conviction on an enemy by lying where the accused faces life in prison?
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Cawlin
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Moe_Nox posted:
Cawlin posted:
The REAL problem is that a man can be sentenced to prison for over 15 years on a total fabrication.
There is no deterrent to lying.
Your perspective is consistent at least, I'll give you that, but punishing the woman now quite literally does absolutely nothing.
Again, the actual problem is that this guy was sentenced so harshly on basically no evidence whatsoever.
I kept the parts I wanted to respond to.
Honestly I don't give a squirt of piss over this case specifically, and it is the larger effect it has on the public in general which is my concern.
So ignore the specifics of this woman being a child at the time. My concern is making sure we search for a cure or at least an improvement for this situation in general.
Duke rape case is simply high profile and well known. It can be any rape case it happens all the time. Hell, leave out the rape, make it any crime in general.
Lying in police reports and court testimony needs greater consequences than what we have now.
Risking a year in jail for perjury while trying to get a wrongful conviction on an enemy by lying where the accused faces life in prison?
I agree with your premise, I honestly do, but this is kind of a special case really. Under pretty much any other circumstances I would support going after the liar.
She was 11 though and while she should have known not to lie, the fact is that a whole lot of adults just believed it, not particularly because she was believable, but because they WANTED TO believe her. This was a juicy "feel good" conviction for everyone that would play well in the press and make them all feel like they were doing something worthwhile in avenging the wrong done to this sweet, innocent little girl.
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eodoll
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There is a lot of evidence that kids are led into making gfalse accusatins about bad touches.
The rape and sexual harrasment stuff is insane, a lot of lies are thrown out. Its women doing what theyve always done - manipulation.
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Yukishiro1
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eodoll posted:
The rape and sexual harrasment stuff is insane, a lot of lies are thrown out. Its women doing what theyve always done - manipulation.
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MayorShade
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If you do the time, you should get to do the crime. The way I see it, he owes her an ol' fashion rapin'. If he won't do it, there should be a state-designated rapist.
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paulg_68
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It should be a crime to wantonly refuse to enforce a law when it is your job to do so.
Put the district attorney in jail.
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