illmyrin
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What snapped me out of being a Christian.
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The timeline.... All my life I had thought Jesus was born, wise men spread his tale, he was a magical wise man who attracted followers who wrote the New Testament.
What really happened was
Jesus was born.
Jesus died.
Some guy who never met Jesus started telling stories about him 40 years after Jesus's death.
This guy's stories became the basis for the Gospels written by other people who NEVER MET JESUS.
And the clincher, the bastards assembled it backwards in the Bible! Paul's letters went out DOZENS of years before the Gospels which got stuck in there first. It's deceptive.
I think Paul might have been a great deceiver.
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Mastara
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So what your saying is that he was the only person who said anything about Jesus? My question for you is, why did the apostles not speak out against him? Why did they approve of him and his works knowing full well who he was? Why did paul correct peter on a few occasions and was not shunned as a nonbeliever?
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paulg_68
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What ended it for me was when my minister said that no one could love anyone until they loved God first. He said it with exactly the same conviction that he said everything else.
I knew my dad didn't believe in God but I knew that he loved me. That's when I knew my minister was a liar. I was 12 and I never went to church again. What was the point of listening to a liar. I was an atheist by 16.
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Sin_of_Onin
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paulg_68 posted:
What ended it for me was when my minister said that no one could love anyone until they loved God first. He said it with exactly the same conviction that he said everything else.
I knew my dad didn't believe in God but I knew that he loved me. That's when I knew my minister was a liar. I was 12 and I never went to church again. What was the point of listening to a liar. I was an atheist by 16.
That is pretty funny because Paul, you know the guy in the Bible, was converting a lot of Greeks who had similar questions about their relatives who were not Christian. Paul's stance was basically that God was in the hearts of everyone so their relatives were all good.
I would run away from bad theology too.
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ZigmundZag
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After being "born again" in High School, I started to have my doubts that a loving God would create a world where the only path to salvation was through Him, yet that path was quite obviously closed to so many people in the world. So within a few months of my religious experience, I said a quiet prayer and basically told God that I had to find my own path to wisdom, and if that meant I would be cast into hell so be it. I didn't really become an agnostic until I started attending a UU church many years later (which is actually permitted within their creed).
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Sin_of_Onin
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What snapped me out of being a Christian.
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Douglas Adams posted:
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.
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illmyrin
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Mastara posted:
So what your saying is that he was the only person who said anything about Jesus? My question for you is, why did the apostles not speak out against him? Why did they approve of him and his works knowing full well who he was? Why did paul correct peter on a few occasions and was not shunned as a nonbeliever?
The Nazarenes were not Christians. Paul correcting Peter? Peter, who knew Jesus, did shun Paul and disowned him for suggesting Jesus rejected the Torah. Jesus's friends thought Paul was a liar for suggesting that Jesus started Paul's new religion.
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Mastara
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Sad as it sounds the gate is narrow that leads to life and few there are that find it, but the gate is broad the leads to destruction and many go through it. Everyone has a choice.
But you left to "find your own path to wisdom"? As if wisdom will do you any real good. What good is wisdom going to do for you? Especially since in the bible it says pretty plainly, "I (God) will destroy the wisdom of the wise and the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate".
Here is a good read for the whole peter and paul issue: http://bible.org/seriespage/peter%E2%80%99s-capitulation-and-paul%E2%80%99s-correction-galatians-211-21
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Ashmaele
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Matthew 3:17 posted:
And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Only my son and I are the same person, otherwise we cannot call our religion "monotheism." GET IT???
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Mastara
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I get it, but that doesn't disprove anything at all.
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Thugoneous
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I.quit believing when I realized no.matter how hard.I would pray the magic wizard wouldn't give Superman's powers.
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Ashmaele
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Mastara posted:
I get it, but that doesn't disprove anything at all.
LOL yeah only if words cease to have meaning, then we can interpret anything as anything we want 
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Yukishiro1
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I think it's interesting how most people seem to lose their "faith" because they realize it doesn't make any sense. Even though that's sorta besides the point.
"
I think it points to how most people's "faith" is not actually faith. It seems very important to most people that believing in god "makes sense."
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Sin_of_Onin
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Most of the reasons not to believe don't make sense either. People try and cover up their real reasons for losing faith with more sensible ones. People that believe do the same.
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Mastara
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Words do have meaning, but yours dont merit the discrediting of what the scriptures say. Your not the first to be a scoffer and you aren't the last. The scriptures have been here for thousands of years and they will be here until the end and scoffers and nay sayers cant and wont stop that. It has survived long after people with greater wisdom and knowledge than you have tried their best to stop it or discredit it, even when it meant killing believers to stop it from spreading and yet its still here. Long after your wisdom and knowledge have failed you, and your dead and gone they will remain. They will still hold their power and meaning. Nothing is going to change that not your words or the words of the greatest scholars on this earth will change that. You just aren't that powerful. After all your a created being like the rest of us, but the creator is better than you and I.
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Manegarm
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The whole idea of basing my life of archaic fiction that was more or less word of mouth with little or no historical backing just seemed stupid to me.. Why should i conform and agree with something just because it's a tradition which has been perpetrated through the ages by people who basically used it as a tool to gain power over people.. And if not that then just acting as a corrosive agent upon humanity dividing us further from one another while doing it's best to conserve society and limit the freedoms of the people.
And lets not forget the myriad of different religions that all claim that their god(s) are the only true gods just shows what a preposterous notion belief is.
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Manegarm
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Mastara posted:
Words do have meaning, but yours dont merit the discrediting of what the scriptures say. Your not the first to be a scoffer and you aren't the last. The scriptures have been here for thousands of years and they will be here until the end and scoffers and nay sayers cant and wont stop that. It has survived long after people with greater wisdom and knowledge than you have tried their best to stop it or discredit it, even when it meant killing believers to stop it from spreading and yet its still here. Long after your wisdom and knowledge have failed you, and your dead and gone they will remain. They will still hold their power and meaning. Nothing is going to change that not your words or the words of the greatest scholars on this earth will change that. You just aren't that powerful. After all your a created being like the rest of us, but the creator is better than you and I.
Studies shows that religion is dying out in the west.. Turns out modern man does not need religion, my country is about 80% atheistic or agnostic. 
So you're wrong there sonny jim, where religion is growing is in the middle east.. Lots of stupid uneducated people it's the prime growing ground for religion.
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Moe_Nox
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Illy you never know, 40 years after your death the people may finally embrace your hidden truth and form a religion around you.
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Ashmaele
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Mastara posted:
Words do have meaning, but yours dont merit the discrediting of what the scriptures say.
Yes, words have meaning, except when they don't. In fantasyville, it is possible for a god to be his own son.
Incidentally, the word "monotheism" doesn't appear anywhere in the Bible. There are many references to Jesus and God as two separate beings, though.
Mastara posted:
Your not the first to be a scoffer and you aren't the last. The scriptures have been here for thousands of years and they will be here until the end and scoffers and nay sayers cant and wont stop that. It has survived long after people with greater wisdom and knowledge than you have tried their best to stop it or discredit it, even when it meant killing believers to stop it from spreading and yet its still here. Long after your wisdom and knowledge have failed you, and your dead and gone they will remain. They will still hold their power and meaning. Nothing is going to change that not your words or the words of the greatest scholars on this earth will change that. You just aren't that powerful. After all your a created being like the rest of us, but the creator is better than you and I.
Cave paintings in France have also been here for thousands of years. I know you think you made a valid point there but you did not, except to demonstrate that the only reason cults are able to survive is because of the ready availability of wilfully ignorant people to keep the cults alive.
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Yukishiro1
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Sin_of_Onin posted:
Most of the reasons not to believe don't make sense either. People try and cover up their real reasons for losing faith with more sensible ones. People that believe do the same.
I am on board with militant atheism not making much more sense than militant belief.
But it seems pretty hard to argue it makes as much sense to believe in a specific God with a specific set of scriptures that make no sense than not to believe in that specific God and set of nonsensical scriptures.
When you hear a crazy story in other contexts I don't think most people think it makes as much sense to believe it as not to believe it.
If you care about what "makes sense" based on the standards we use in the rest of our lives God doesn't.
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Mastara
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"You call me 'Teacher' and 'Lord,' and rightly so, for that is what I am." -Jesus
That is good enough for me. So to you, these words have no meaning. And why should they? You don't believe. The nonbeliever cannot understand the things of the spirit, because they are spiritually discerned. They cannot accept it because the word is foolishness to those that are perishing.
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
That sums it up. I'm not trying to convert you or anything, I just wanted to know your thoughts and reasons behind what your saying is all.
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Manegarm
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Mastara posted:
dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb
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Mastara
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See previous post, its nothing new mane. Its not a surprise that you think so. Many who dont believe would love to silence believers by calling them names or talking down to them. Its just nothing new. I expect it, especially posting here. It wont change anything but I like to see your views and opinions. If I didn't want to see or hear them I wouldn't post here.
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Manegarm
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Mastara posted:
See previous post, its nothing new mane. Its not a surprise that you think so. Many who dont believe would love to silence believers by calling them names or talking down to them. Its just nothing new. I expect it, especially posting here. It wont change anything but I like to see your views and opinions. If I didn't want to see or hear them I wouldn't post here.
Allah contraire! I love the way you blather on in your uneducated pathos it's quite entertaining, I rather insist you do go on..
Your kind is dying out slowly, the more wealth and security people have in their lives the less use there will be for your brand of delusion.. As I said earlier studies show that religion in the west is dying out. 
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Nein mann ich will noch nicht gehen
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Mastara
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It could be dying, and scripture says there will be great apostasy in the end times. However it will never fully die out. That much is clear. Dying and dead are 2 different things.
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Sin_of_Onin
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Sin_of_Onin posted:
Most of the reasons not to believe don't make sense either. People try and cover up their real reasons for losing faith with more sensible ones. People that believe do the same.
I am on board with militant atheism not making much more sense than militant belief.
But it seems pretty hard to argue it makes as much sense to believe in a specific God with a specific set of scriptures that make no sense than not to believe in that specific God and set of nonsensical scriptures.
When you hear a crazy story in other contexts I don't think most people think it makes as much sense to believe it as not to believe it.
If you care about what "makes sense" based on the standards we use in the rest of our lives God doesn't.
Dude you are arguing about it but whatever argument you put forth is likely done after you have already decided what you believe.
People decide these things emotionally with some reason thrown in as opposed to purely logical or even with a majority of logic. People decide and then fill in their logic.
There have been studies!
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illmyrin
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Mastara posted:
I only see one set of footprints in the sand ATM. 
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Mastara posted:
It could be dying, and scripture says there will be great apostasy in the end times. However it will never fully die out. That much is clear. Dying and dead are 2 different things.
Oh I'm very sure that we'll be rid of religion in a few hundred years.. It's simply useless and not much fun.
Oh and that whole "doom and gloom" part of the bible is less likely then the Norse version which is Fimbulavintern -7 years of winter followed by Ragnarök 
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Mastara
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I'm not too worried about the likelihood of it. The bible said it will happen, it will. I dont have to venture much of a guess. The real question is when?
But to be honest I never read up on the whole norse version. As many peoples have their own version of an end time scenario. I'll stick with the biblical version myself, your welcome to do whatever floats your boat. I believe in the whole, as in the days of noah approach. Some do and some dont, its up to the individual.
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Manegarm
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Mastara posted:
I'm not too worried about the likelihood of it. The bible said it will happen, it will. I dont have to venture much of a guess. The real question is when?
But to be honest I never read up on the whole norse version. As many peoples have their own version of an end time scenario. I'll stick with the biblical version myself, your welcome to do whatever floats your boat. I believe in the whole, as in the days of noah approach. Some do and some dont, its up to the individual.
The thing about end of the world prophecy is that we all know it will happen.. Not in the way its described by any religion unless they happen to predict that the sun will more or less scorch the earth in a few million years.
Or say a huge asteroid that smashes into the earth.. Or just a prolonged nuclear exchange- now this will not kill all of humanity but most of it.
So when it does happen every religion is going to be like "we told you so this is your fault for sinning/eating cow/not bowing to mecca etc..
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What snapped me out of being a Christian.
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Mastara posted:
I'm not too worried about the likelihood of it. The bible said it will happen, it will. I dont have to venture much of a guess. The real question is when?
The end of days was supposed to happen in the lifetime of the people listening to Jesus speak after the Resurrection. But that had to be retconned since that clearly didn't happen (the most fun version being that at least one of those listeners is still alive).
Or maybe the end of days already happened? 
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Yukishiro1
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Sin_of_Onin posted:
People decide these things emotionally with some reason thrown in as opposed to purely logical or even with a majority of logic. People decide and then fill in their logic.
That seems true of anything.
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Azure-TheBlueOne
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I read the whole bible from Old Testament to New while I was in bootcamp. That pretty much did it for me.
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redlegOIF
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Out among the free range sheep
While the big birds sharpen their claws
For a time we stuck with the Shepard
But you wouldn't play Santa Claus
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dude, I still pretend to be a girl -CaitlynFairchild
I still can't get over the fact that you said the Cowboys were once a dynasty hahahha -Stangkilla
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Eager_Igraine
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illmyrin posted:
The timeline.... All my life I had thought Jesus was born, wise men spread his tale, he was a magical wise man who attracted followers who wrote the New Testament.
What really happened was
Jesus was born.
Jesus died.
Some guy who never met Jesus started telling stories about him 40 years after Jesus's death.
This guy's stories became the basis for the Gospels written by other people who NEVER MET JESUS.
And the clincher, the bastards assembled it backwards in the Bible! Paul's letters went out DOZENS of years before the Gospels which got stuck in there first. It's deceptive.
I think Paul might have been a great deceiver.
Paul is the only reason Christianity still exists. Without bringing in the Gentiles, it would have died back in the first century. Of course, Jesus buds didn't like Paul, Jesus was a Jewish prophet trying to prepare Jews for the end of times that he truly believed was about to happen. And he was right, as far as his own life was concerned.
btw Mascara, you might consider that the value of prophets in the bible was that they interpreted the events around them through the eyes of God. They weren't predicting the future as people have come to believe, they were talking about what was current at the time. Revelations isn't about the future.
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Sin_of_Onin
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Sin_of_Onin posted:
People decide these things emotionally with some reason thrown in as opposed to purely logical or even with a majority of logic. People decide and then fill in their logic.
That seems true of anything.
Yeah I am usually right in an obvious way.
People just don't like to think that they are this way.
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Azure-TheBlueOne
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Azure-TheBlueOne posted:
I read the whole bible from Old Testament to New while I was in bootcamp. That pretty much did it for me.
"All our ideas of the justice and goodness of God revolt at the impious cruelty of the Bible. It is not a God, just and good, but a devil, under the name of God, that the Bible describes... but all our ideas of the justice and goodness of God give the lie to the book, and as I never will believe any book that ascribes cruelty and injustice to God, I therefore reject the Bible as unworthy of credit. "
http://www.deism.com/paine_essay_age_of_reason.htm
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Eager_Igraine
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God was a little testier when he was only a storm god living in a portable tent.
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I know what you're trying to do but you're just sailing another failboat over the falls. - imaloon1
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Sin_of_Onin
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Azure-TheBlueOne posted:
Azure-TheBlueOne posted:
I read the whole bible from Old Testament to New while I was in bootcamp. That pretty much did it for me.
"All our ideas of the justice and goodness of God revolt at the impious cruelty of the Bible. It is not a God, just and good, but a devil, under the name of God, that the Bible describes... but all our ideas of the justice and goodness of God give the lie to the book, and as I never will believe any book that ascribes cruelty and injustice to God, I therefore reject the Bible as unworthy of credit. "
http://www.deism.com/paine_essay_age_of_reason.htm
The early Bible is set in a moral ethic of people getting what they deserve. It relies on rather straight forward morality where if you do good then you will be rewarded. It is not uncommon for people to believe in such morality. The Bible also changes throughout its existence to question that idea. Particularly in the book of Job and other writings that were common around the time of Jesus.
The story of Jesus is written entirely in this context of a cruel world that the faithful begin to question. The Jews were conquered and ruled over by the Romans and King Herod. The entire idea behind the coming Messiah was that they needed to be saved from this cruel world and deserved to be saved from it.
Then Jesus comes along and saves them, but not in the way they thought he would.
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Altra_Shadowstalker
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http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jefferson_Bible&useformat=desktop
I see your founding father and call.
Thomas Jefferson posted:
There will be found remaining the most sublime and benevolent code of morals which has ever been offered to man. I have performed this operation for my own use, by cutting verse by verse out of the printed book, and arranging the matter which is evidently his, and which is as easily distinguishable as diamonds in a dunghill. The result is an octavo of forty-six pages, of pure and unsophisticated doctrines
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Yukishiro1
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So you're trying to refute the notion that God in the bible is a bastard by a quote from Jefferson that if you take all the God out of the bible you're left with a nice piece of moral philosophy?
Grats, I guess.
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reesescups
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illmyrin posted:
What snapped me out of being a Christian.
having a developed and fully functional brain?
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Modeeb
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My basic orientation is Christian. It really doesnt matter what orientation you end up with. Pick a Spiritual path and try it out. Maybe you will end up at Jesus Campor maybe you will end up somewhere else. Eventually you will die and will not matter which path you chose.
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Fail Again. Fail Better. Samuel Beckett
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Allstarslacker
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Jesus is an idea.
It doesn't really matter who knew him, or when anything was written. What matters is what you take away from it.
If you find inspiration in the bible, or at church, then stick with it. If not then move on to something else.
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Z-Elder
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philosophia perennis
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"The poison of our ordinary habits has killed the magic of the moment"
"Men are not in hell because God is angry with them . . .
they stand in the state of division and separation which by their own motion, they have made for themselves"
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the_great_intex
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It is a book that has been re-written and re-interpreted hundreds of times sometimes by some of the most power hungry and evil regimes throughout history
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Only those who dare to fail greatly, can ever achieve greatly
In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity
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ZigmundZag
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Allstarslacker posted:
Jesus is an idea.
It doesn't really matter who knew him, or when anything was written. What matters is what you take away from it.
If you find inspiration in the bible, or at church, then stick with it. If not then move on to something else.
I can agree with this.
The problem is that most churches require that they do more than just inspire you in order for you to consider yourself among their flock.
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paulg_68
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Sin_of_Onin posted:
People decide these things emotionally with some reason thrown in as opposed to purely logical or even with a majority of logic. People decide and then fill in their logic.
That seems true of anything.
People choose to try out ideas based on emotion. Rational people discard unsupported ideas sooner or later though.
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Sin_of_Onin
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paulg_68 posted:
People choose to try out ideas based on emotion. Rational people discard unsupported ideas sooner or later though.
Says the guy that rejected God out of a misunderstanding of theology.
That is fine IMO, you are hardly the only person to ever do that but in the end you are just trying to apply a logical justification to something to did based on emotion and intuition.
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F is for Fake-believe
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eodoll
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Santa claus, easter bunny, tooth fairy... Same thing that ended those for me are what ended religion for me.
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Sin_of_Onin posted:
Most of the reasons not to believe don't make sense either. People try and cover up their real reasons for losing faith with more sensible ones. People that believe do the same.
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-----signature-----
you are broken now
but faith can heal you
just do everything i tell you to do
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Kjarhall
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ZigmundZag posted:
Allstarslacker posted:
Jesus is an idea.
It doesn't really matter who knew him, or when anything was written. What matters is what you take away from it.
If you find inspiration in the bible, or at church, then stick with it. If not then move on to something else.
I can agree with this.
The problem is that most churches require that they do more than just inspire you in order for you to consider yourself among their flock.
That's because faith isn't the problem, it's organized religion. I believe in God. What i don't believe in is religion. It's based on man and their efforts to control the masses, not God. Everything about the church, synagogue, mosque etc., are manmade constructs designed to control, and to perpetuate the religions growth.
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*http://vnboards.ign.com/outpost/b22180/115147923/r115151508/
hah! true story tho i'm a woman an i even love boobs..how can you not??- HallowEve
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Sin_of_Onin
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Voodoo-Dahl posted:
Sin_of_Onin posted:
Most of the reasons not to believe don't make sense either. People try and cover up their real reasons for losing faith with more sensible ones. People that believe do the same.
A lot of people base their rejection of God on all sorts of things that don't really make sense. This is obviously true because if God truly doesn't exist the only logical reason to reject God is lack of evidence. People rarely actually reject God based on lack of evidence. Instead they react to what they are told about God and the people telling them about God. Then they justify their position based on the logical reason, ie lack of evidence.
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IMHO
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Kjarhall posted:
That's because faith isn't the problem, it's organized religion. I believe in God. What i don't believe in is religion. It's based on man and their efforts to control the masses, not God. Everything about the church, synagogue, mosque etc., are manmade constructs designed to control, and to perpetuate the religions growth.
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Ptilk
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Job ended it for me. Here is this guy who loves god and is a good man....so god kills his family, destroys his life, makes him suffer agony, both physical and mental, just to see how much this Job guy really loves him.
Eff that. If this dude actually exists, he is an abusive prick and I totally don't want to like him, let alone love him. Then you start reading all the other crap, like telling some dude to kill his son, and salting the earth and killing babies.....then the ultimate sadistic crap, human freaking sacrifice. Here I'll have this really good dude be murdered in a horrible and painful fashion....now love me or burn in fire forever!1! 
WTF? This guy is like a drunk, wife beating, child molesting, murdering asshole. EFF that^3. I'd rather lick dog pee out of a syphilitic whores ass than worship this guy.
I was about 13 when I had this little series of thoughts, took me a few more years to come to the same conclusion about the other religions I looked at....then I just figured that if all these people, billions and billions of them, all loved these total dicks, religion wasn't so much a way of finding peace and love as it was a way to deal with the fact that peace and love aren't very common.
Figured I would just cut out the middle man and go straight to the source, the entire universe is filled with idiots and I'm one of them, but at least I'm not slobbing on some imaginary super powerful assholes knob in the process.
This is pretty much my actual thought process as a kid. I've tried the religion thing a few times since then, checked it out to see if any of them had some new kind of justification for all the evil crap their 'loving father' did back in the day.....never found any. I know some really good people who are very religious. Good for them, I don't bust on them or rain on their parade. Whatever gets you thru the night, I'm happy you have it.
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Mastara
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Your wrong ptilk. God didn't kill him family, satan did. You have to read the story. God allowed the suffering and once it was done and he still didn't curse God and confess his sin (that he hadn't committed yet his friends said he did because why else would God judge someone so harshly). Once the trial was over he was blessed even more and given 2 or 3 times what he had before. Your view is merely from a human standpoint. Your looking at death as if death is the end and there is nothing after. While God can see the beginning, present, end (of life) and after. Was it horrible, yes, but it was not God that did it. It was satan, and his punishment is waiting at the appointed time, as well as his angels and those who do not believe.
Its more than just a sad story. And at the time he didn't understand but after he did. He questioned God about things that were way above his understanding and God answered. Read this story if you want the whole thing you probably wont as most here woudn't but here it is:
http://ebible.org/kjv/Job.htm
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Mastara
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Neither did the lord command human sacrifice. Your speaking of Abraham and again this was a test. The lord wanted to see if Abraham trusted God with everything, even his only son (which is familiar because he also offered his only son and he went all the way to death) before he committed the act of sacrificing his son he was commanded not to harm a hair on his head. Again your not understanding the reason. Which isn't uncommon from people who won't study the scriptures but will draw conclusions for the story within without understanding the reasoning first.
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Boooooommmm Heeeaaaddddshhhhooooottttt! http://www.carellaross.com/img/truth_its_the_new_hate_speech.jpg Mastatheimposta - 10L2 SB Merlin
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Thugoneous
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If God can't stop Satan I'm. Going to worship him.instead he's a harass.
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Lady, people aren't chocolates. D'you know what they are mostly? Bastards. Bastard-coated bastards with bastard filling.
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I understand just fine. They had a contest, god said, "you can't make my bestest friend squeal". So he let the devil murder the guys family and torment him. Then god paid off Job by giving him a new wife and kids. Yeah, that's really a great deal. Just replace my loved ones that were murdered for your game with some new people and hell, I'm better off than ever, screw those other kids and my first wife was sorta fat anyway. Ummm....yeah, that's the actions of a asshole gang leader, not a deity I'm going to love.
Kill your kid. KILLL HIIIM! Hey, just kidding! You got punked! Why so sad? I didn't let you actually kill the little bastard, I just made you go thru horrible anguish and got to see if you really loved me enough to murder your own kid. If you didn't you were going to hell, if you did, I got to know you loved my benevolent and wonderful self. Congrats you won. Stop crying sheesh. Hey, at least I didn't do you like Job.
Here is my kid, he was only born to be murdered in anguish. Yeah, good kid, but kill his ass so I can do something or other with his blood and stuff and that way you wont have to kill your chickens anymore. Hey, it's a good deal for you. More chickens, now KILLL HIIIIM!
As I said, total asshole. In his own words and deeds. Study all you want, your god is an insane, sadistic, jerk.
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Scarne
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Satan also doesn't have free will like people do. So anything Satan does is because God wills it. 
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Manegarm
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Mastara posted:
Neither did the lord command human sacrifice. Your speaking of Abraham and again this was a test. The lord wanted to see if Abraham trusted God with everything, even his only son (which is familiar because he also offered his only son and he went all the way to death) before he committed the act of sacrificing his son he was commanded not to harm a hair on his head. Again your not understanding the reason. Which isn't uncommon from people who won't study the scriptures but will draw conclusions for the story within without understanding the reasoning first.
Hate to break it too you but you're worshiping a ancient evil blood good.
Proof:
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Eager_Igraine
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Scarne posted:
Satan also doesn't have free will like people do. So anything Satan does is because God wills it.
Job was a brilliant poetic questioning of accepted morality when set side by side with reality. Then the priesthood adopted, adapted and added to the poem to recreate it in their own theology. Mascara would fit right in with the three friends who have no clue, but parrot their religious teachings.
Also, your free will statement makes for great conversation with rational Xtians and leaves the more conservative ones a bit frothy.
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Mastara
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Oh scratch that I seen what you said. Of course by rational, you mean people that would compromise with you in your belief of what is actually being said in the book. So basically a wishy washy Christian that stands on shaky knowledge of the word. Its not rational, its just a discussion of people who dont know the word
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Manegarm
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Mastara posted:
Oh scratch that I seen what you said. Of course by rational, you mean people that would compromise with you in your belief of what is actually being said in the book. So basically a wishy washy Christian that stands on shaky knowledge of the word. Its not rational, its just a discussion of people who dont know the word
So Satan killing 10 people and your God murdering 2 391 000 people, you're okay with that?
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Mastara
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Who am I to pass judgement on God? Who are you for that matter?
He is a just and righteous God. He does not sin. If in his judgement he decided people needed to die for the things they did, thats for him to decide and he is right and just in doing so. He sees the things that we cant. He knows the situation and the hidden things that we dont. Rightfully we all deserve such a punishment. The fact that we're all still breathing at this moment speaks to his mercy. But I will not be the one to bring an accusation against God. He had his reasons. And I'm not just or wise enough to question him. A pot does not ask the potter why he was made. It simply does what its creator made it to do.
Oh and God never murdered a single person. I have no clue how your coming up with a number like that. But Id like to know.
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Mastara
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The book of Job teaches the same thing. Though God allowed SATAN to kill his family and break his body Job in the depths of his despair never once accused God of sinning or wrong doing. Did he wonder why such things were happening to him? Of course he did, but never once did he bring an accusation against God. Which is why after the 3 friends told him to curse God and die, he basically ignored them and kept speaking to God from the depths of his heart. But notice, God replied to Job. And God rebuked his 3 friends for speaking falsely of Job and judging him.
Instead of merely questioning everything you think the bible says it might help to actually know what it says and to study it, and the answer just might show up. Reading 1 book and saying bam I know the answers doesn't do it. They all mingle together.
1 Then the LORD spoke to Job out of the storm. He said:
2 “Who is this that obscures my plans
with words without knowledge?
3 Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.
4 “Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
6 On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone—
7 while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels[a] shouted for joy?
8 “Who shut up the sea behind doors
when it burst forth from the womb,
9 when I made the clouds its garment
and wrapped it in thick darkness,
10 when I fixed limits for it
and set its doors and bars in place,
11 when I said, ‘This far you may come and no farther;
here is where your proud waves halt’?
12 “Have you ever given orders to the morning,
or shown the dawn its place,
13 that it might take the earth by the edges
and shake the wicked out of it?
14 The earth takes shape like clay under a seal;
its features stand out like those of a garment.
15 The wicked are denied their light,
and their upraised arm is broken.
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Azure-TheBlueOne
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For me, it all comes down to my disbelief that any omnipotent being would subscribe to such ridiculous and petty human emotions of vengeance, wrath, jealousy, and hate. And it says quite often in the bible that God is both jealous and hateful, I had some fundies online recently point out at least 15+ times in the scripture where it says such. I don't think they understood that I was saying that was precisely why I don't believe in the bible. Because my God does not subscribe to pathetic human emotions. No true God would need to.
My God is the Universe and everything in it, and it's perfect.
<3
"the belief of a cruel God makes a cruel man."
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Azure-TheBlueOne
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1 Samuel 15:3
Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
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Manegarm
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Mastara posted:
Who am I to pass judgement on God? Who are you for that matter?
He is a just and righteous God. He does not sin. If in his judgement he decided people needed to die for the things they did, thats for him to decide and he is right and just in doing so. He sees the things that we cant. He knows the situation and the hidden things that we dont. Rightfully we all deserve such a punishment. The fact that we're all still breathing at this moment speaks to his mercy. But I will not be the one to bring an accusation against God. He had his reasons. And I'm not just or wise enough to question him. A pot does not ask the potter why he was made. It simply does what its creator made it to do.
Oh and God never murdered a single person. I have no clue how your coming up with a number like that. But Id like to know.
Well any critical thinking individual would at least read up on what kind of God he's worshiping, I mean you could be just be praying to Satan without knowing it.
No that's not a valid excuse that's the excuse a psychopathic blood god would make: I see and know everything and therefor if I just offhandedly murder people for no reason it's all because of a plan.
Just sounds like the reasoning of a mad god.
Well you might have the mental faculties of a pot I on the other hand am a thinking human being.
The numbers were as it says on the picture taken from the bible, the number of kills for god also counts in the flood.
Funny so you're okay with God murdering 2 million people because he's good but Satan is evil for killing 10? That's about the same as saying a kid who rips the wings of a fly is more evil then your run of the mill murderer psychopath.
Oh and he's extremely random too and without reason..
Killing the Good Samaritan
The ark of God was placed on a new cart and taken away from the house of Abinadab on the hill. Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab guided the cart, with Ahio walking before it, while David and all the Israelites made merry before the Lord with all their strength, with singing and with citharas, harps, tambourines, sistrums, and cymbals.
When they came to the threshing floor of Nodan, Uzzah reached out his hand to the ark of God to steady it, for the oxen were making it tip. But the Lord was angry with Uzzah; God struck him on that spot, and he died there before God. (2 Samuel 6:3-7 NAB)
The Angel of Death
That night the angel of the Lord went forth and struck down one hundred and eighty five thousand men in the Assyrian camp. Early the next morning, there they were, all the corpuses of the dead. (2 Kings 19:35 NAB)
He's terrible at following his own advice, there's boatloads of quotes from the bible which tells not of a benevolent kind God but a psychopathic monster who feeds of random murder and terror.
You're worshiping a blood god Mastara.
read more here: http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm
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Nein mann ich will noch nicht gehen
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Eager_Igraine
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Mastara posted:
Oh scratch that I seen what you said. Of course by rational, you mean people that would compromise with you in your belief of what is actually being said in the book. So basically a wishy washy Christian that stands on shaky knowledge of the word. Its not rational, its just a discussion of people who dont know the word
Rational meaning people who are able to discuss the evidence rather than irrational, meaning people like you.
You argue as if you know 'the word', but your 'word' has been massaged and worked over by competing theologies, ideologies and politics for thousands of years and what you read today and believe wholeheartedly as fixed and immutable has in fact never been either.
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Halloweve
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I'm thankful we are each free to believe what we think is the truth.
For those that do believe in God, please read this as advice from the word.
http://www.esvbible.org/2+Timothy+2.14-19/
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Manegarm
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Halloweve posted:
I'm thankful we are each free to believe what we think is the truth.
For those that do believe in The Blood God, please read this as advice from the word.
http://www.esvbible.org/2+Timothy+2.14-19/
fixed for reality..
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Nein mann ich will noch nicht gehen
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Mastara
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Halloweve I have to agree with you. The word and the believer speak for themselves. God knows who are his as does the believer. Thank you
/Thread closed.
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Manegarm
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Mastara posted:
Halloweve I have to agree with you. The word and the believer speak for themselves. God knows who are his as does the believer. Thank you
/Thread closed.
So you're ignoring that you worship a genocidal blood god, who could care less about you and yours, while the only real reason for existence is to wither away and hope that when you die and get to join him (yeah right) in the afterlife?
And there is zero proof real proof of this and the proof you have more or less paints your god like a capricious psychotic lunatic, which you put all your trust in..
No wonder he's the Shepard and you're all sheep, being led of to the slaughter.
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Nein mann ich will noch nicht gehen
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Kjarhall posted:
ZigmundZag posted:
Allstarslacker posted:
Jesus is an idea.
It doesn't really matter who knew him, or when anything was written. What matters is what you take away from it.
If you find inspiration in the bible, or at church, then stick with it. If not then move on to something else.
I can agree with this.
The problem is that most churches require that they do more than just inspire you in order for you to consider yourself among their flock.
That's because faith isn't the problem, it's organized religion. I believe in God. What i don't believe in is religion. It's based on man and their efforts to control the masses, not God. Everything about the church, synagogue, mosque etc., are manmade constructs designed to control, and to perpetuate the religions growth.
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Mastara posted:
Halloweve I have to agree with you. The word and the believer speak for themselves. God knows who are his as does the believer. Thank you
/Thread closed.
The Blood God kills believers and non believers alike. It doesn't matter to the Blood God who you think you are.
Just an FYI
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Good and evil are constructs of humanity.
In reality there is only one way things can be and that's how they were, how they are and how they will be.
The devil isn't a person. It is the side of us we hate. It is the bad we do and the guilt we carry.
The same is true of God. It is the side of us we love. Is is the good we do and the love we feel.
Too often we try to go to war with the side of us we hate, but that is pointless. Who are you going to fight?
If you want to make the world a better place follow the commandments of Jesus.
Love your God and love your neighbor.
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Manegarm
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Allstarslacker posted:
Good and evil are constructs of humanity.
In reality there is only one way things can be and that's how they were, how they are and how they will be.
The devil isn't a person. It's the side of us we hate. It is the bad we do and the guilt we carry.
The same is true of God. It is the side of us we love. Is is the good we do and the love we feel.
Too often we try to go to war with the side of us we hate, but that is pointless. Who are you going to fight?
If you want to make the world a better place follow the commandments of Jesus.
Love your God and love your neighbor.
Well God is just a construct of humanity, show me any proof that says otherwise?
God is obviously not benevolent love, if you read the bible he's obviously a psychotic dick, hell bent on kicking the legs off humanity at whichever juncture he feels it's right and with no real explanation what so ever.. He's a child a capricious child playing with ants. It's a good thing that he's in all probability not real.
Why love something that does not exist why not just love each other worry less about some patriarchal divine father figure who will damn you to hell if you don't follow his every contradictory command.
And that's just the Christian god, and what says the Christian god is the right god.. Or the only god?
Love is nice and good and well, but it's all just a evolutionary construct.
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Allstarslacker
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I agree.
God is a construct of humanity. Just like justice. Or beauty. Or any other feelings and fantasies we have as people.
He or she or it can be anything people want or nothing. It doesn't matter.
If you want a God pick one or make your own. If you don't then don't.
You can't stop anyone from doing it just like they can't make you do it.
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IMHO
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You can't debate these knuckleheads. They can't even tell the difference between God and religion.
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Manegarm
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Allstarslacker posted:
I agree.
God is a construct of humanity. Just like justice. Or beauty. Or any other feelings and fantasies we have as people.
He or she or it can be anything people want or nothing. It doesn't matter.
If you want a God pick one or make your own. If you don't then don't.
You can't stop anyone from doing it just like they can't make you do it.
I agree with you, amicable end to the discussion.
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Nein mann ich will noch nicht gehen
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