Arcilite_I posted:

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What if "dog" was really spelled "cat"

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-Advice- posted:

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whats better? being mad rich? or hella rich?

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XeXy_SainT__ posted:

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why He allows poverty, famine, and injustice in the world when He could do something about it, but I'm afraid He might ask me the same question.

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XeXy_SainT__ posted:

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why He allows poverty, famine, and injustice in the world when He could do something about it, but I'm afraid He might ask me the same question.

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Vodka_Tonic posted:

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If you believe in christian values that is one thing, if you believe there is a god who has a plan for you that is another.

There are an estimated 200 billion stars in our galaxy alone. There are an estimated 100 billion galaxies in the known universe. That leaves to speculation of how many stars there are in the known universe at around 100 sextillion stars (that is a trillion billion stars).

The Hubble Telescope suggests that there are more stars in the known universe than there are grains of sand on every beach on earth.

I ruled out god as the creator/regulator/ruler of the universe a long time ago. I have faith in myself and the choices I make.

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Morde_ posted:

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LOL have fun in HELL you stupid faggot.

All those stars are is a test from our true Lord. Come judgement day, I'm happy I'll be saved so I don't have to see you idiots in heaven.

Xexy, God loves us and that is AWESOME!!!! I know he has a plan for everyone in this world and if a kid dies in Africa then he was chosen by the Lord because it was his time!!!!!

God wants us to be good people and to help the poor so that's why I'm donating 3$ to my church offering this year! , what have you faggots done to be Holy?

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Morde_ posted:

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Because being a faggot is a sin and you're going to hell!!!! Homofags are an abomination and true Marriage MUST be between one man and one woman. Read the Bible, idiot, it will do you some good.

Of course God has a plan for us, why else would we exist? Look up the Watchmaker theory. Educate yourself. A world this complex and beautiful COULDN'T have happened naturally. The only explanation is that it was Created by the Almighty.

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0-0-0-0-ppooo posted:

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We created poverty, famine, and injustice. Not god's job to clean up our messes. Free will my friend.

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Devil51211 posted:

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Morde_ posted:

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Because being a faggot is a sin and you're going to hell!!!! Homofags are an abomination and true Marriage MUST be between one man and one woman. Read the Bible, idiot, it will do you some good.

Of course God has a plan for us, why else would we exist? Look up the Watchmaker theory. Educate yourself. A world this complex and beautiful COULDN'T have happened naturally. The only explanation is that it was Created by the Almighty.

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Ugh, I can't even move forward with an intelligent conversation if you are just going to call me a faggot. But I should point out in the same book of the bible where it declares a man lying with another man an abomination it declares shellfish an abomination. I have read the Bible, it's why I am an atheist. Maybe you should actually read it once instead of spouting out what others have told you.

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R3Mington posted:

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known of you

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Morde_ posted:

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R3Mington posted:

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known of you

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Nor have you ever read any book ever.

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R3Mington posted:

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known of you have ever read the bible and or know the scriptures.

just sayin

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Morde_ posted:

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Okay I'll try to be more respectful because that's what Jesus would like hehe

How can you read the Bible and not Believe? It's so beautiful! Why would you choose to be an atheist and turn away from your savior? Don't you understand that he made The Ultimate Sacrifice for you? And now you're slapping His hand away!!!!! What if your friend gave their life to save you, wouldn't you want to honour them?

I can't believe we live in a world where people question the existence of God when there is so much beauty around. Just look at the trees and the sky! That's why I Believe.

P. S. Your VN name is blasphemous and offensive to my beliefs so I will be reporting you.

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Vodka_Tonic posted:

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R3Mington posted:

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known of you have ever read the bible and or know the scriptures.

just sayin

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I went to catholic school for 12 years. I can attest to the moral messages that are in the bible (specifically the new testament). However, I don't accept the dogmatism that surrounds any religion.

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Devil51211 posted:

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Morde_ posted:

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Okay I'll try to be more respectful because that's what Jesus would like hehe

How can you read the Bible and not Believe? It's so beautiful! Why would you choose to be an atheist and turn away from your savior? Don't you understand that he made The Ultimate Sacrifice for you? And now you're slapping His hand away!!!!! What if your friend gave their life to save you, wouldn't you want to honour them?

I can't believe we live in a world where people question the existence of God when there is so much beauty around. Just look at the trees and the sky! That's why I Believe.

P. S. Your VN name is blasphemous and offensive to my beliefs so I will be reporting you.

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It's so ridiculous is what it is. The bible is filled with logical fallacies, it hurts my scientific brain. The world is beautiful, very very beautiful, and so is chaotic randomness, and what caused our world to be the way it is today. However, for every argument of beauty there is an argument of ugliness, so I find it hard to believe that someone that wanted to design a beautiful world put so much ugliness inside of it. (Rabbit's digestive systems for one, they have to digest things twice in order to gather the nutrients from it, meaning they have to eat their poop. That isn't very intelligent design in my opinion.)

As for reporting me, please do. I made this account when I was 16, from a AOL SN I had when I was 12. I don't want to lose my date created, but would very much like to use my normal Tag.

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Vodka_Tonic posted:

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[quote=Devil51211]

Devil you are getting trolled.

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Vodka_Tonic posted:

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If you believe in christian values that is one thing, if you believe there is a god who has a plan for you that is another.

There are an estimated 200 billion stars in our galaxy alone. There are an estimated 100 billion galaxies in the known universe. That leaves to speculation of how many stars there are in the known universe at around 100 sextillion stars (that is a trillion billion stars).

The Hubble Telescope suggests that there are more stars in the known universe than there are grains of sand on every beach on earth.

I ruled out god as the creator/regulator/ruler of the universe a long time ago. I have faith in myself and the choices I make.

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Televangelist posted:

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XeXy_SainT__ posted:

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why He allows poverty, famine, and injustice in the world when He could do something about it, but I'm afraid He might ask me the same question.

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Aren't you the guy who's against health care for unlucky poor people?

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XeXy_SainT__ posted:

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Someone posted this on Facebook and I wanted to see the VNDT reaction.

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FWH-Techumseh posted:

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Vodka_Tonic posted:

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If you believe in christian values that is one thing, if you believe there is a god who has a plan for you that is another.

There are an estimated 200 billion stars in our galaxy alone. There are an estimated 100 billion galaxies in the known universe. That leaves to speculation of how many stars there are in the known universe at around 100 sextillion stars (that is a trillion billion stars).

The Hubble Telescope suggests that there are more stars in the known universe than there are grains of sand on every beach on earth.

I ruled out god as the creator/regulator/ruler of the universe a long time ago. I have faith in myself and the choices I make.

---

Ref your pic:

Have you ever heard of the book Science of God by Gerald Schroeder? It may not have any influence on you but I bet it would make you think twice about your theory on whether or not God exists. Thoughts of the Universe and creation have changed many times. Hell, until 1959 scientists believed the universe was finite and eternal. Since then they've discovered that it indeed had a beginning (creation) and that it continues to expand. Many cultures believe it began somewhere

Since the universe is expanding, a day at the exact point of creation would be millions of years from Earth. Several days would be billions of years later. Even Battlestar Galactica mentioned that concept in season 4; last episode. Einstein (an atheist) taught the world that time is relative. That in regions of high velocity or high gravity time actually passes more slowly relative to regions of lower gravity or lower velocity. (One system relative to another, hence the name, the laws of relativity.) This is now proven fact. Time actually stretches out. Were ever you are time is normal for you because your biology is part of that local system.

As for the notion that life on earth was just a lucky coincidence check out what Stephen Hawkin says:

"The remarkable fact is that the values of these numbers (i.e. the constants of physics) seem to have been very finely adjusted to make possible the development of life". "For example," Hawking writes, "if the electric charge of the electron had been only slightly different, stars would have been unable to burn hydrogen and helium, or else they would not have exploded. It seems clear that there are relatively few ranges of values for the numbers (for the constants) that would allow for development of any form of intelligent life. Most sets of values would give rise to universes that, although they might be very beautiful, would contain no one able to wonder at that beauty."

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XeXy_SainT__ posted:

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why He allows poverty, famine, and injustice in the world when He could do something about it, but I'm afraid He might ask me the same question.

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FWH-Techumseh posted:

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Vodka_Tonic posted:

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If you believe in christian values that is one thing, if you believe there is a god who has a plan for you that is another.

There are an estimated 200 billion stars in our galaxy alone. There are an estimated 100 billion galaxies in the known universe. That leaves to speculation of how many stars there are in the known universe at around 100 sextillion stars (that is a trillion billion stars).

The Hubble Telescope suggests that there are more stars in the known universe than there are grains of sand on every beach on earth.

I ruled out god as the creator/regulator/ruler of the universe a long time ago. I have faith in myself and the choices I make.

---

Ref your pic:

Have you ever heard of the book Science of God by Gerald Schroeder? It may not have any influence on you but I bet it would make you think twice about your theory on whether or not God exists. Thoughts of the Universe and creation have changed many times. Hell, until 1959 scientists believed the universe was finite and eternal. Since then they've discovered that it indeed had a beginning (creation) and that it continues to expand. Many cultures believe it began somewhere

Since the universe is expanding, a day at the exact point of creation would be millions of years from Earth. Several days would be billions of years later. Even Battlestar Galactica mentioned that concept in season 4; last episode. Einstein (an atheist) taught the world that time is relative. That in regions of high velocity or high gravity time actually passes more slowly relative to regions of lower gravity or lower velocity. (One system relative to another, hence the name, the laws of relativity.) This is now proven fact. Time actually stretches out. Were ever you are time is normal for you because your biology is part of that local system.

As for the notion that life on earth was just a lucky coincidence check out what Stephen Hawkin says:

"The remarkable fact is that the values of these numbers (i.e. the constants of physics) seem to have been very finely adjusted to make possible the development of life". "For example," Hawking writes, "if the electric charge of the electron had been only slightly different, stars would have been unable to burn hydrogen and helium, or else they would not have exploded. It seems clear that there are relatively few ranges of values for the numbers (for the constants) that would allow for development of any form of intelligent life. Most sets of values would give rise to universes that, although they might be very beautiful, would contain no one able to wonder at that beauty."

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R3Mington posted:

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none of you have ever read the bible and or know the scriptures.

just sayin

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Acid233 posted:

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Lets see what is more plausible?

A flying spaghetti man in the sky that created everything or everything just happened by coincidence after billions of years of fucking nothingness.

Common sense dictates coincidence since their are trillions upon trillions of planets. Obviously one of these is going to harbor life. It is statistics. Not only should their be at least one intelligent species but their should be millions upon millions around the universe.

You have to extremely naive and self centered if you actually believe humans are the only intelligent species in the universe. Mathematically speaking this notion is absurdity at its finest and literally impossible to be true.

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Acid233 posted:

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FWH-Techumseh posted:

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Vodka_Tonic posted:

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If you believe in christian values that is one thing, if you believe there is a god who has a plan for you that is another.

There are an estimated 200 billion stars in our galaxy alone. There are an estimated 100 billion galaxies in the known universe. That leaves to speculation of how many stars there are in the known universe at around 100 sextillion stars (that is a trillion billion stars).

The Hubble Telescope suggests that there are more stars in the known universe than there are grains of sand on every beach on earth.

I ruled out god as the creator/regulator/ruler of the universe a long time ago. I have faith in myself and the choices I make.

---

Ref your pic:

Have you ever heard of the book Science of God by Gerald Schroeder? It may not have any influence on you but I bet it would make you think twice about your theory on whether or not God exists. Thoughts of the Universe and creation have changed many times. Hell, until 1959 scientists believed the universe was finite and eternal. Since then they've discovered that it indeed had a beginning (creation) and that it continues to expand. Many cultures believe it began somewhere

Since the universe is expanding, a day at the exact point of creation would be millions of years from Earth. Several days would be billions of years later. Even Battlestar Galactica mentioned that concept in season 4; last episode. Einstein (an atheist) taught the world that time is relative. That in regions of high velocity or high gravity time actually passes more slowly relative to regions of lower gravity or lower velocity. (One system relative to another, hence the name, the laws of relativity.) This is now proven fact. Time actually stretches out. Were ever you are time is normal for you because your biology is part of that local system.

As for the notion that life on earth was just a lucky coincidence check out what Stephen Hawkin says:

"The remarkable fact is that the values of these numbers (i.e. the constants of physics) seem to have been very finely adjusted to make possible the development of life". "For example," Hawking writes, "if the electric charge of the electron had been only slightly different, stars would have been unable to burn hydrogen and helium, or else they would not have exploded. It seems clear that there are relatively few ranges of values for the numbers (for the constants) that would allow for development of any form of intelligent life. Most sets of values would give rise to universes that, although they might be very beautiful, would contain no one able to wonder at that beauty."

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Lets see what is more plausible?

A flying spaghetti man in the sky that created everything or everything just happened by coincidence after billions of years of fucking nothingness.

Common sense dictates coincidence since their are trillions upon trillions of planets. Obviously one of these is going to harbor life. It is statistics. Not only should their be at least one intelligent species but their should be millions upon millions around the universe.

You have to extremely naive and self centered if you actually believe humans are the only intelligent species in the universe. Mathematically speaking this notion is absurdity at its finest and literally impossible to be true.

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0-0-0-0-ppooo posted:

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We created poverty, famine, and injustice. Not god's job to clean up our messes. Free will my friend.

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TehPersianStallion posted:

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0-0-0-0-ppooo posted:

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We created poverty, famine, and injustice. Not god's job to clean up our messes. Free will my friend.

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We did? Shit, my bad. You would think that say, famine, would be caused by finite resources and other conditions (droughts) and things like that beyond our control.

We can adapt to our environment, but we didn't make it. We can't modify physical laws to have, say, everlasting sources of food and wealth so that there is no poverty or famine. You can blame people for not adapting in a way that isn't perfect, but I think that's condescending and irrational.

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azv4 posted:

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TehPersianStallion posted:

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0-0-0-0-ppooo posted:

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We created poverty, famine, and injustice. Not god's job to clean up our messes. Free will my friend.

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We did? Shit, my bad. You would think that say, famine, would be caused by finite resources and other conditions (droughts) and things like that beyond our control.

We can adapt to our environment, but we didn't make it. We can't modify physical laws to have, say, everlasting sources of food and wealth so that there is no poverty or famine. You can blame people for not adapting in a way that isn't perfect, but I think that's condescending and irrational.

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Overpopulation is not our fault? Did you think at all before you typed?

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FWH-Techumseh posted:

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Acid233 posted:

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Lets see what is more plausible?

A flying spaghetti man in the sky that created everything or everything just happened by coincidence after billions of years of fucking nothingness.

Common sense dictates coincidence since their are trillions upon trillions of planets. Obviously one of these is going to harbor life. It is statistics. Not only should their be at least one intelligent species but their should be millions upon millions around the universe.

You have to extremely naive and self centered if you actually believe humans are the only intelligent species in the universe. Mathematically speaking this notion is absurdity at its finest and literally impossible to be true.

---

Funny you should say that. God is a mathemtician! Don't take my word for it though. How bout a High Physics Nobel Laureate, Professor Steven Weinberg.

"•writing in the journal "Scientific American", reflects on:

how surprising it is that the laws of nature and the initial conditions of the universe should allow for the existence of beings who could observe it. Life as we know it would be impossible if any one of several physical quantities had slightly different values.
Although Weinberg is a self-described agnostic, he cannot but be astounded by the extent of the fine-tuning. He goes on to describe how a beryllium isotope having the minuscule half life of 0.0000000000000001 seconds must find and absorb a helium nucleus in that split of time before decaying. This occurs only because of a totally unexpected, exquisitely precise, energy match between the two nuclei. If this did not occur there would be none of the heavier elements. No carbon, no nitrogen, no life. Our universe would be composed of hydrogen and helium. But this is not the end of Professor Weinberg's wonder at our well-tuned universe. He continues:

One constant does seem to require an incredible fine-tuning -- The existence of life of any kind seems to require a cancellation between different contributions to the vacuum energy, accurate to about 120 decimal places.
This means that if the energies of the Big Bang were, in arbitrary units, not:
100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000,
but instead:
100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000001,
there would be no life of any sort in the entire universe because as Weinberg states:

the universe either would go through a complete cycle of expansion and contraction before life could arise, or would expand so rapidly that no galaxies or stars could form."

That's just one example. The Earth is so finely balanced that to suggest that it was coincidental is not rational. And I actually agree that we aren't the only living beings on Earth. Turn on the news every day. If you were God wouldn't you cover your bets and have many Earths? We're a damn mess!

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Acid233 posted:

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FWH-Techumseh posted:

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Acid233 posted:

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Lets see what is more plausible?

A flying spaghetti man in the sky that created everything or everything just happened by coincidence after billions of years of fucking nothingness.

Common sense dictates coincidence since their are trillions upon trillions of planets. Obviously one of these is going to harbor life. It is statistics. Not only should their be at least one intelligent species but their should be millions upon millions around the universe.

You have to extremely naive and self centered if you actually believe humans are the only intelligent species in the universe. Mathematically speaking this notion is absurdity at its finest and literally impossible to be true.

---

Funny you should say that. God is a mathemtician! Don't take my word for it though. How bout a High Physics Nobel Laureate, Professor Steven Weinberg.

"•writing in the journal "Scientific American", reflects on:

how surprising it is that the laws of nature and the initial conditions of the universe should allow for the existence of beings who could observe it. Life as we know it would be impossible if any one of several physical quantities had slightly different values.
Although Weinberg is a self-described agnostic, he cannot but be astounded by the extent of the fine-tuning. He goes on to describe how a beryllium isotope having the minuscule half life of 0.0000000000000001 seconds must find and absorb a helium nucleus in that split of time before decaying. This occurs only because of a totally unexpected, exquisitely precise, energy match between the two nuclei. If this did not occur there would be none of the heavier elements. No carbon, no nitrogen, no life. Our universe would be composed of hydrogen and helium. But this is not the end of Professor Weinberg's wonder at our well-tuned universe. He continues:

One constant does seem to require an incredible fine-tuning -- The existence of life of any kind seems to require a cancellation between different contributions to the vacuum energy, accurate to about 120 decimal places.
This means that if the energies of the Big Bang were, in arbitrary units, not:
100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000,
but instead:
100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000001,
there would be no life of any sort in the entire universe because as Weinberg states:

the universe either would go through a complete cycle of expansion and contraction before life could arise, or would expand so rapidly that no galaxies or stars could form."

That's just one example. The Earth is so finely balanced that to suggest that it was coincidental is not rational. And I actually agree that we aren't the only living beings on Earth. Turn on the news every day. If you were God wouldn't you cover your bets and have many Earths? We're a damn mess!

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Very well thought out response. I agree with you that it is a pretty big coincidence but the question still remains.

I would love for one of these scientists to explain the chances of an all powerful being somehow coming to existence and creating everything out of thin air? You keep spouting these scientists and their explanation of the probability of life of being extremely low, but what about the explanation of the probability of an all knowing powerful being that somehow came out of nothingness and is the embodiment of everything? is this .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 to infinity chance of occurring? Where is this math? I would love to see it.

No matter what, the probability of our universe coming to existence the way we think it came to existence has a significantly better probability of occuring then a flying spaghetti man that appeared out of nowhere.

See what I did their? I can preach the same thing you have been preaching just the other way around.

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FWH-Techumseh posted:

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Acid233 posted:

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Lets see what is more plausible?

A flying spaghetti man in the sky that created everything or everything just happened by coincidence after billions of years of fucking nothingness.

Common sense dictates coincidence since their are trillions upon trillions of planets. Obviously one of these is going to harbor life. It is statistics. Not only should their be at least one intelligent species but their should be millions upon millions around the universe.

You have to extremely naive and self centered if you actually believe humans are the only intelligent species in the universe. Mathematically speaking this notion is absurdity at its finest and literally impossible to be true.

---

Funny you should say that. God is a mathemtician! Don't take my word for it though. How bout a High Physics Nobel Laureate, Professor Steven Weinberg.

"•writing in the journal "Scientific American", reflects on:

how surprising it is that the laws of nature and the initial conditions of the universe should allow for the existence of beings who could observe it. Life as we know it would be impossible if any one of several physical quantities had slightly different values.
Although Weinberg is a self-described agnostic, he cannot but be astounded by the extent of the fine-tuning. He goes on to describe how a beryllium isotope having the minuscule half life of 0.0000000000000001 seconds must find and absorb a helium nucleus in that split of time before decaying. This occurs only because of a totally unexpected, exquisitely precise, energy match between the two nuclei. If this did not occur there would be none of the heavier elements. No carbon, no nitrogen, no life. Our universe would be composed of hydrogen and helium. But this is not the end of Professor Weinberg's wonder at our well-tuned universe. He continues:

One constant does seem to require an incredible fine-tuning -- The existence of life of any kind seems to require a cancellation between different contributions to the vacuum energy, accurate to about 120 decimal places.
This means that if the energies of the Big Bang were, in arbitrary units, not:
100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000,
but instead:
100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000001,
there would be no life of any sort in the entire universe because as Weinberg states:

the universe either would go through a complete cycle of expansion and contraction before life could arise, or would expand so rapidly that no galaxies or stars could form."

That's just one example. The Earth is so finely balanced that to suggest that it was coincidental is not rational. And I actually agree that we aren't the only living beings on Earth. Turn on the news every day. If you were God wouldn't you cover your bets and have many Earths? We're a damn mess!

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.-Vega-. posted:

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FWH-Techumseh posted:

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Acid233 posted:

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Lets see what is more plausible?

A flying spaghetti man in the sky that created everything or everything just happened by coincidence after billions of years of fucking nothingness.

Common sense dictates coincidence since their are trillions upon trillions of planets. Obviously one of these is going to harbor life. It is statistics. Not only should their be at least one intelligent species but their should be millions upon millions around the universe.

You have to extremely naive and self centered if you actually believe humans are the only intelligent species in the universe. Mathematically speaking this notion is absurdity at its finest and literally impossible to be true.

---

Funny you should say that. God is a mathemtician! Don't take my word for it though. How bout a High Physics Nobel Laureate, Professor Steven Weinberg.

"•writing in the journal "Scientific American", reflects on:

how surprising it is that the laws of nature and the initial conditions of the universe should allow for the existence of beings who could observe it. Life as we know it would be impossible if any one of several physical quantities had slightly different values.
Although Weinberg is a self-described agnostic, he cannot but be astounded by the extent of the fine-tuning. He goes on to describe how a beryllium isotope having the minuscule half life of 0.0000000000000001 seconds must find and absorb a helium nucleus in that split of time before decaying. This occurs only because of a totally unexpected, exquisitely precise, energy match between the two nuclei. If this did not occur there would be none of the heavier elements. No carbon, no nitrogen, no life. Our universe would be composed of hydrogen and helium. But this is not the end of Professor Weinberg's wonder at our well-tuned universe. He continues:

One constant does seem to require an incredible fine-tuning -- The existence of life of any kind seems to require a cancellation between different contributions to the vacuum energy, accurate to about 120 decimal places.
This means that if the energies of the Big Bang were, in arbitrary units, not:
100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000,
but instead:
100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000001,
there would be no life of any sort in the entire universe because as Weinberg states:

the universe either would go through a complete cycle of expansion and contraction before life could arise, or would expand so rapidly that no galaxies or stars could form."

That's just one example. The Earth is so finely balanced that to suggest that it was coincidental is not rational. And I actually agree that we aren't the only living beings on Earth. Turn on the news every day. If you were God wouldn't you cover your bets and have many Earths? We're a damn mess!

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Pure win. Gonna re-read this later til I memorize it.

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Vodka_Tonic posted:

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I'm glad you mentioned this. No I have not read that book, although it sounds very interesting and I'll definitely have to read up on it. Yes, science is always changing indefinitely. There is always new evidence being discovered to support theories and claims in science. As for God and Religion, there really isn't evidence being discovered that explains in basic terms "our existence".

As for time, that is a subject in itself. Time is a term we've created to explain duration in which events occur. According to Einstein's general theory of relativity, during an event horizon in space, space is basically bent. If someone were to observe the point of no return into a black hole time would literally slow down infinitely. To the observer you would see the object slowly getting closer to the black hole. It would appear this way infinitely, but in reality that object would already be broken down and gravity would have engulfed that object. Like you said, because the universe is expanding, space is expanding, and time is stretched out over an infinite number of light years. It may be impossible for us too see the creation point of the universe.

Now I don't want to dwell too far into this subject because it will lead to science fiction. If we could bend space and time ourselves then theoretically we could travel from point A to point B through a wormhole and reach the far ends of the universe.

Yes we can marvel at the wonder of the universe and study the intricate substances that make up matter. Will the beauty we see in everything around us make me question the existence of god?

Simply no. Only because I believe the idea of God is something humans created in their most primitive being to cope with our unexplainable existence.

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Acid233 posted:

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FWH-Techumseh posted:

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Acid233 posted:

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Lets see what is more plausible?

A flying spaghetti man in the sky that created everything or everything just happened by coincidence after billions of years of fucking nothingness.

Common sense dictates coincidence since their are trillions upon trillions of planets. Obviously one of these is going to harbor life. It is statistics. Not only should their be at least one intelligent species but their should be millions upon millions around the universe.

You have to extremely naive and self centered if you actually believe humans are the only intelligent species in the universe. Mathematically speaking this notion is absurdity at its finest and literally impossible to be true.

---

Funny you should say that. God is a mathemtician! Don't take my word for it though. How bout a High Physics Nobel Laureate, Professor Steven Weinberg.

"•writing in the journal "Scientific American", reflects on:

how surprising it is that the laws of nature and the initial conditions of the universe should allow for the existence of beings who could observe it. Life as we know it would be impossible if any one of several physical quantities had slightly different values.
Although Weinberg is a self-described agnostic, he cannot but be astounded by the extent of the fine-tuning. He goes on to describe how a beryllium isotope having the minuscule half life of 0.0000000000000001 seconds must find and absorb a helium nucleus in that split of time before decaying. This occurs only because of a totally unexpected, exquisitely precise, energy match between the two nuclei. If this did not occur there would be none of the heavier elements. No carbon, no nitrogen, no life. Our universe would be composed of hydrogen and helium. But this is not the end of Professor Weinberg's wonder at our well-tuned universe. He continues:

One constant does seem to require an incredible fine-tuning -- The existence of life of any kind seems to require a cancellation between different contributions to the vacuum energy, accurate to about 120 decimal places.
This means that if the energies of the Big Bang were, in arbitrary units, not:
100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000,
but instead:
100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000001,
there would be no life of any sort in the entire universe because as Weinberg states:

the universe either would go through a complete cycle of expansion and contraction before life could arise, or would expand so rapidly that no galaxies or stars could form."

That's just one example. The Earth is so finely balanced that to suggest that it was coincidental is not rational. And I actually agree that we aren't the only living beings on Earth. Turn on the news every day. If you were God wouldn't you cover your bets and have many Earths? We're a damn mess!

---

Very well thought out response. I agree with you that it is a pretty big coincidence but the question still remains. Answer me this then.

Where are these scientists explaining the chances of an all powerful being somehow coming to existence and creating everything out of thin air? You keep spouting these scientists and their explanation of the probability of life of being extremely low, but what about the explanation of the probability of an all knowing powerful being that somehow came out of nothingness and is the embodiment of everything? is this .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 to infinity chance of occurring? Where is this math? I would love to see it.

No matter what, the probability of our universe coming to existence the way we think it came to existence has a significantly better probability of occuring then a flying spaghetti man that appeared out of nowhere.

See what I did their? I can preach the same thing you have been preaching just the other way around.

---

FWH-Techumseh posted:

---

Vodka_Tonic posted:

---

I'm glad you mentioned this. No I have not read that book, although it sounds very interesting and I'll definitely have to read up on it. Yes, science is always changing indefinitely. There is always new evidence being discovered to support theories and claims in science. As for God and Religion, there really isn't evidence being discovered that explains in basic terms "our existence".

As for time, that is a subject in itself. Time is a term we've created to explain duration in which events occur. According to Einstein's general theory of relativity, during an event horizon in space, space is basically bent. If someone were to observe the point of no return into a black hole time would literally slow down infinitely. To the observer you would see the object slowly getting closer to the black hole. It would appear this way infinitely, but in reality that object would already be broken down and gravity would have engulfed that object. Like you said, because the universe is expanding, space is expanding, and time is stretched out over an infinite number of light years. It may be impossible for us too see the creation point of the universe.

Now I don't want to dwell too far into this subject because it will lead to science fiction. If we could bend space and time ourselves then theoretically we could travel from point A to point B through a wormhole and reach the far ends of the universe.

Yes we can marvel at the wonder of the universe and study the intricate substances that make up matter. Will the beauty we see in everything around us make me question the existence of god?

Simply no. Only because I believe the idea of God is something humans created in their most primitive being to cope with our unexplainable existence.

---

I actually agree with you. No amount of facts or figures would change your mind. There really is no substitute for Faith. My first name is Thomas and I'm too much like the Disciple. I need the science to strengthen my faith. So to me it's comforting to see that the more we know the more that's confirmed. Granted in my eyes, not yours.

Unfortunately, Christians are to blame for people not believing in Christ than Satan. I get frustrated because they spend so much of their time locked in their elaborate, climate controlled buildings waiting for people to just show up and ask what this 'Christ thing' is all about. Most hide their children away from society either thru home schooling or Christian schools. I coach Football and Basketball. I get an opportunity to share my faith and I state up front that throughout the year that's what I'll be doing. So people can come or go as they please. You can only reach someone once they get to know you. God knows I'm not perfect. And my life is pretty messed up right now. But I still trust in Him to help me make it right.

But to get to your point about traveling bending space and time I think that is one school of thought. I have a theory about Angels. They couldn't have body's like ours and travel back and forth between Heaven and Earth thru a worm hole. They would have to be some crazy looking creatures. Hence the reason that whenever they would appear the first thing they would say would be 'Fear not!'

What if they are bound to some of the same laws of nature as we are? And what if they mastered another means of travel? The Ancient Aliens so to speak. Maybe they aren't able to visit as often because the universe is expanding and each time they would have to travel further to get here. That could explain why bad things happen I suppose.

But the bible says that God knows what we need and has it on the way so that it will always arrive on time. Scientifically, the only way He could accomplish this is He must be able to see the future. Maybe He figured out how to bend Time? I know a lot of Christians would find it sacrilege for me to suggest that maybe God has to obey the same laws of nature, space, time etc that we do. The scientist in me finds Him more intriguing if that's the case. And my faith in Him and His plan is just as strong as any others.

---

Krugwulf posted:

---

Acid233 posted:

---

FWH-Techumseh posted:

---

[quote=Acid233] Lets see what is more plausible?

A flying spaghetti man in the sky that created everything or everything just happened by coincidence after billions of years of fucking nothingness.

Common sense dictates coincidence since their are trillions upon trillions of planets. Obviously one of these is going to harbor life. It is statistics. Not only should their be at least one intelligent species but their should be millions upon millions around the universe.

You have to extremely naive and self centered if you actually believe humans are the only intelligent species in the universe. Mathematically speaking this notion is absurdity at its finest and literally impossible to be true.

---

Funny you should say that. God is a mathemtician! Don't take my word for it though. How bout a High Physics Nobel Laureate, Professor Steven Weinberg.

"•writing in the journal "Scientific American", reflects on:

how surprising it is that the laws of nature and the initial conditions of the universe should allow for the existence of beings who could observe it. Life as we know it would be impossible if any one of several physical quantities had slightly different values.
Although Weinberg is a self-described agnostic, he cannot but be astounded by the extent of the fine-tuning. He goes on to describe how a beryllium isotope having the minuscule half life of 0.0000000000000001 seconds must find and absorb a helium nucleus in that split of time before decaying. This occurs only because of a totally unexpected, exquisitely precise, energy match between the two nuclei. If this did not occur there would be none of the heavier elements. No carbon, no nitrogen, no life. Our universe would be composed of hydrogen and helium. But this is not the end of Professor Weinberg's wonder at our well-tuned universe. He continues:

One constant does seem to require an incredible fine-tuning -- The existence of life of any kind seems to require a cancellation between different contributions to the vacuum energy, accurate to about 120 decimal places.
This means that if the energies of the Big Bang were, in arbitrary units, not:
100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000,
but instead:
100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000001,
there would be no life of any sort in the entire universe because as Weinberg states:

the universe either would go through a complete cycle of expansion and contraction before life could arise, or would expand so rapidly that no galaxies or stars could form."

That's just one example. The Earth is so finely balanced that to suggest that it was coincidental is not rational. And I actually agree that we aren't the only living beings on Earth. Turn on the news every day. If you were God wouldn't you cover your bets and have many Earths? We're a damn mess!

---

Very well thought out response. I agree with you that it is a pretty big coincidence but the question still remains. Answer me this then.

Where are these scientists explaining the chances of an all powerful being somehow coming to existence and creating everything out of thin air? You keep spouting these scientists and their explanation of the probability of life of being extremely low, but what about the explanation of the probability of an all knowing powerful being that somehow came out of nothingness and is the embodiment of everything? is this .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 to infinity chance of occurring? Where is this math? I would love to see it.

No matter what, the probability of our universe coming to existence the way we think it came to existence has a significantly better probability of occuring then a flying spaghetti man that appeared out of nowhere.

See what I did their? I can preach the same thing you have been preaching just the other way around.

---

Krugwulf posted:

---

http://htwins.net/scale2/

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FWH-Techumseh posted:

---

Vodka_Tonic posted:

---

I'm glad you mentioned this. No I have not read that book, although it sounds very interesting and I'll definitely have to read up on it. Yes, science is always changing indefinitely. There is always new evidence being discovered to support theories and claims in science. As for God and Religion, there really isn't evidence being discovered that explains in basic terms "our existence".

As for time, that is a subject in itself. Time is a term we've created to explain duration in which events occur. According to Einstein's general theory of relativity, during an event horizon in space, space is basically bent. If someone were to observe the point of no return into a black hole time would literally slow down infinitely. To the observer you would see the object slowly getting closer to the black hole. It would appear this way infinitely, but in reality that object would already be broken down and gravity would have engulfed that object. Like you said, because the universe is expanding, space is expanding, and time is stretched out over an infinite number of light years. It may be impossible for us too see the creation point of the universe.

1.Now I don't want to dwell too far into this subject because it will lead to science fiction. If we could bend space and time ourselves then theoretically we could travel from point A to point B through a wormhole and reach the far ends of the universe.

Yes we can marvel at the wonder of the universe and study the intricate substances that make up matter. Will the beauty we see in everything around us make me question the existence of god?

Simply no. Only because I believe the idea of God is something humans created in their most primitive being to cope with our unexplainable existence.

---

I actually agree with you. No amount of facts or figures would change your mind. There really is no substitute for Faith. My first name is Thomas and I'm too much like the Disciple. 2. I need the science to strengthen my faith. So to me it's comforting to see that the more we know the more that's confirmed. Granted in my eyes, not yours.

3. Unfortunately, Christians are to blame for people not believing in Christ than Satan. 4.I get frustrated because they spend so much of their time locked in their elaborate, climate controlled buildings waiting for people to just show up and ask what this 'Christ thing' is all about. Most hide their children away from society either thru home schooling or Christian schools. I coach Football and Basketball. I get an opportunity to share my faith and I state up front that throughout the year that's what I'll be doing. So people can come or go as they please. You can only reach someone once they get to know you. God knows I'm not perfect. And my life is pretty messed up right now. 5. But I still trust in Him to help me make it right.

6. But to get to your point about traveling bending space and time I think that is one school of thought. I have a theory about Angels. They couldn't have body's like ours and travel back and forth between Heaven and Earth thru a worm hole. They would have to be some crazy looking creatures. Hence the reason that whenever they would appear the first thing they would say would be 'Fear not!'

What if they are bound to some of the same laws of nature as we are? And what if they mastered another means of travel? The Ancient Aliens so to speak. Maybe they aren't able to visit as often because the universe is expanding and each time they would have to travel further to get here. That could explain why bad things happen I suppose.

7. But the bible says that God knows what we need and has it on the way so that it will always arrive on time. Scientifically, the only way He could accomplish this is He must be able to see the future. Maybe He figured out how to bend Time? I know a lot of Christians would find it sacrilege for me to suggest that maybe God has to obey the same laws of nature, space, time etc that we do. The scientist in me finds Him more intriguing if that's the case. And my faith in Him and His plan is just as strong as any others.

---

-Snatch- posted:

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It's funny, after the first hundred you'd think these threads would cease to perform...but they still get fucking results.

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-Snatch- posted:

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It's funny, after the first hundred you'd think these threads would cease to perform...but they still get fucking results.

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Acid233 posted:

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FWH-Techumseh posted:

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Vodka_Tonic posted:

---

If you believe in christian values that is one thing, if you believe there is a god who has a plan for you that is another.

There are an estimated 200 billion stars in our galaxy alone. There are an estimated 100 billion galaxies in the known universe. That leaves to speculation of how many stars there are in the known universe at around 100 sextillion stars (that is a trillion billion stars).

The Hubble Telescope suggests that there are more stars in the known universe than there are grains of sand on every beach on earth.

I ruled out god as the creator/regulator/ruler of the universe a long time ago. I have faith in myself and the choices I make.

---

Ref your pic:

Have you ever heard of the book Science of God by Gerald Schroeder? It may not have any influence on you but I bet it would make you think twice about your theory on whether or not God exists. Thoughts of the Universe and creation have changed many times. Hell, until 1959 scientists believed the universe was finite and eternal. Since then they've discovered that it indeed had a beginning (creation) and that it continues to expand. Many cultures believe it began somewhere

Since the universe is expanding, a day at the exact point of creation would be millions of years from Earth. Several days would be billions of years later. Even Battlestar Galactica mentioned that concept in season 4; last episode. Einstein (an atheist) taught the world that time is relative. That in regions of high velocity or high gravity time actually passes more slowly relative to regions of lower gravity or lower velocity. (One system relative to another, hence the name, the laws of relativity.) This is now proven fact. Time actually stretches out. Were ever you are time is normal for you because your biology is part of that local system.

As for the notion that life on earth was just a lucky coincidence check out what Stephen Hawkin says:

"The remarkable fact is that the values of these numbers (i.e. the constants of physics) seem to have been very finely adjusted to make possible the development of life". "For example," Hawking writes, "if the electric charge of the electron had been only slightly different, stars would have been unable to burn hydrogen and helium, or else they would not have exploded. It seems clear that there are relatively few ranges of values for the numbers (for the constants) that would allow for development of any form of intelligent life. Most sets of values would give rise to universes that, although they might be very beautiful, would contain no one able to wonder at that beauty."

---

Lets see what is more plausible?

A flying spaghetti man in the sky that created everything or everything just happened by coincidence after billions of years of fucking nothingness.

Common sense dictates coincidence since their are trillions upon trillions of planets. Obviously one of these is going to harbor life. It is statistics. Not only should their be at least one intelligent species but their should be millions upon millions around the universe.

You have to extremely naive and self centered if you actually believe humans are the only intelligent species in the universe. Mathematically speaking this notion is absurdity at its finest and literally impossible to be true.

---

ozkar123 posted:

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Acid233 posted:

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FWH-Techumseh posted:

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[quote=Vodka_Tonic]

If you believe in christian values that is one thing, if you believe there is a god who has a plan for you that is another.

There are an estimated 200 billion stars in our galaxy alone. There are an estimated 100 billion galaxies in the known universe. That leaves to speculation of how many stars there are in the known universe at around 100 sextillion stars (that is a trillion billion stars).

The Hubble Telescope suggests that there are more stars in the known universe than there are grains of sand on every beach on earth.

I ruled out god as the creator/regulator/ruler of the universe a long time ago. I have faith in myself and the choices I make.

---

Ref your pic:

Have you ever heard of the book Science of God by Gerald Schroeder? It may not have any influence on you but I bet it would make you think twice about your theory on whether or not God exists. Thoughts of the Universe and creation have changed many times. Hell, until 1959 scientists believed the universe was finite and eternal. Since then they've discovered that it indeed had a beginning (creation) and that it continues to expand. Many cultures believe it began somewhere

Since the universe is expanding, a day at the exact point of creation would be millions of years from Earth. Several days would be billions of years later. Even Battlestar Galactica mentioned that concept in season 4; last episode. Einstein (an atheist) taught the world that time is relative. That in regions of high velocity or high gravity time actually passes more slowly relative to regions of lower gravity or lower velocity. (One system relative to another, hence the name, the laws of relativity.) This is now proven fact. Time actually stretches out. Were ever you are time is normal for you because your biology is part of that local system.

As for the notion that life on earth was just a lucky coincidence check out what Stephen Hawkin says:

"The remarkable fact is that the values of these numbers (i.e. the constants of physics) seem to have been very finely adjusted to make possible the development of life". "For example," Hawking writes, "if the electric charge of the electron had been only slightly different, stars would have been unable to burn hydrogen and helium, or else they would not have exploded. It seems clear that there are relatively few ranges of values for the numbers (for the constants) that would allow for development of any form of intelligent life. Most sets of values would give rise to universes that, although they might be very beautiful, would contain no one able to wonder at that beauty."

---

Lets see what is more plausible?

A flying spaghetti man in the sky that created everything or everything just happened by coincidence after billions of years of fucking nothingness.

Common sense dictates coincidence since their are trillions upon trillions of planets. Obviously one of these is going to harbor life. It is statistics. Not only should their be at least one intelligent species but their should be millions upon millions around the universe.

You have to extremely naive and self centered if you actually believe humans are the only intelligent species in the universe. Mathematically speaking this notion is absurdity at its finest and literally impossible to be true.

---

azv4 posted:

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Anyone who claims to know 100% one way or another is stupid in the head.

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Acid233 posted:

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How was I being a judgmental prick? I was merely stating the same basic things you were stating but in a different way to demonstrate how absurd you sounded. If I am a judgmental prick then you sir are one as well. The truth is simple. We both have no clue how we came to be and will most likely never know.

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Krugwulf posted:

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Acid233 posted:

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How was I being a judgmental prick? I was merely stating the same basic things you were stating but in a different way to demonstrate how absurd you sounded. If I am a judgmental prick then you sir are one as well. The truth is simple. We both have no clue how we came to be and will most likely never know.

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Ah you were pointing out how absurd I sounded? I wasn't the one making the replies which you quoted.

It shouldn't be hard to respect a man who is attempting to have a civil discussion, and say 'your hypothetical god' instead of a passe dork-term like 'flying spaghetti monster'. Take the high road and argue on his level if hes trying to have a legitimate discussion rather than the typical hurdur forum fare.

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Krugwulf posted:

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Acid233 posted:

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How was I being a judgmental prick? I was merely stating the same basic things you were stating but in a different way to demonstrate how absurd you sounded. If I am a judgmental prick then you sir are one as well. The truth is simple. We both have no clue how we came to be and will most likely never know.

---

Ah you were pointing out how absurd I sounded? I wasn't the one making the replies which you quoted.

It shouldn't be hard to respect a man who is attempting to have a civil discussion, and say 'your hypothetical god' instead of a passe dork-term like 'flying spaghetti monster'. Take the high road and argue on his level if hes trying to have a legitimate discussion rather than the typical hurdur forum fare.

In short no problem with the message, just the delivery.

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Snackpack_Genocide posted:

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Krugwulf posted:

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Acid233 posted:

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How was I being a judgmental prick? I was merely stating the same basic things you were stating but in a different way to demonstrate how absurd you sounded. If I am a judgmental prick then you sir are one as well. The truth is simple. We both have no clue how we came to be and will most likely never know.

---

Ah you were pointing out how absurd I sounded? I wasn't the one making the replies which you quoted.

It shouldn't be hard to respect a man who is attempting to have a civil discussion, and say 'your hypothetical god' instead of a passe dork-term like 'flying spaghetti monster'. Take the high road and argue on his level if hes trying to have a legitimate discussion rather than the typical hurdur forum fare.

In short no problem with the message, just the delivery.

---

couldnt even finish reading Krugwolf's message.. Possible reasons.. 1.) it's chalk-full of tom-douchery
2.) I'm high as fuck
3.) I'm high as fuck
4.) I'm high as fuck
5.) I'm high as fuck
etc. so forth and so on

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Snackpack_Genocide posted:

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if God is everywhere.. nevermind.. too easy

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Simon_Fretter posted:

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Snackpack_Genocide posted:

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if God is everywhere.. nevermind.. too easy

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God is everywhere. Quantum science has officially proved that everything is a trio of consciousness, energy and matter. You will have to go back to the 18th century to find evidence that supports materialistic atheism. Modern science endorses notions of multidimensionality and conscious responses from apparently "inanimate" objects. Research the observer effect.

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CatholicPriest posted:

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Did you learn that in law class too you stupid faggot?

In search of proof of your idiotic claims.

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azv4 posted:

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TehPersianStallion posted:

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0-0-0-0-ppooo posted:

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We created poverty, famine, and injustice. Not god's job to clean up our messes. Free will my friend.

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We did? Shit, my bad. You would think that say, famine, would be caused by finite resources and other conditions (droughts) and things like that beyond our control.

We can adapt to our environment, but we didn't make it. We can't modify physical laws to have, say, everlasting sources of food and wealth so that there is no poverty or famine. You can blame people for not adapting in a way that isn't perfect, but I think that's condescending and irrational.

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Overpopulation is not our fault? Did you think at all before you typed?

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TehPersianStallion posted:

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azv4 posted:

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TehPersianStallion posted:

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[quote=0-0-0-0-ppooo]We created poverty, famine, and injustice. Not god's job to clean up our messes. Free will my friend.

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We did? Shit, my bad. You would think that say, famine, would be caused by finite resources and other conditions (droughts) and things like that beyond our control.

We can adapt to our environment, but we didn't make it. We can't modify physical laws to have, say, everlasting sources of food and wealth so that there is no poverty or famine. You can blame people for not adapting in a way that isn't perfect, but I think that's condescending and irrational.

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Overpopulation is not our fault? Did you think at all before you typed?

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-Double_A posted:

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Xexy, why don't you make all sociopathic killers not kill others


I could do it in a billion of a million of one second, but instead I'll ask you why you don't do it???

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Simon_Fretter posted:

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Double A are you an atheist?

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Simon_Fretter posted:

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Snackpack_Genocide posted:

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if God is everywhere.. nevermind.. too easy

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God is everywhere. Quantum science has officially proved that everything is a trio of consciousness, energy and matter. You will have to go back to the 18th century to find evidence that supports materialistic atheism. Modern science endorses notions of multidimensionality and conscious responses from apparently "inanimate" objects. Research the observer effect.

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Snackpack_Genocide posted:

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so God is in my anus?.. please get him out..

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Simon_Fretter posted:

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Snackpack_Genocide posted:

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so God is in my anus?.. please get him out..

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You may wish to humorize the subject but it only serves to further distort your perception of reality. If you want to make jokes then it is better to visit a comedy club or go look at the millions of youtube videos out there, that is a better place for it.

It's a serious thing worth examining. If different scientific results appear based purely on the observer, then this indicates a conscious reaction between what is observed and the observer. Furthermore, that is very interesting because the materialistic science has determined that life depends on certain activities, thus we label something as being dead if it is "inert". Yet quantum science is indicating that it is actually interacting with the observer.

I'm more prone to say at this point, everything is alive, rather than stating, some things are alive and others are "dead", or "non living". Things just appear to be at different stages of life.

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Simon_Fretter posted:

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CatholicPriest posted:

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Did you learn that in law class too you stupid faggot?

In search of proof of your idiotic claims.

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Still high from that one quip you finally got in after all these months?

Look up the observer effect on Wikipedia.

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0-0-0-0-ppooo posted:

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We created poverty, famine, and injustice. Not god's job to clean up our messes. Free will my friend.

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Simon_Fretter posted:

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Double A are you an atheist?

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-Double_A posted:

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Did you know....



god could create free will and eliminate all evil?

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Vodka_Tonic posted:

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Do you remember anything before you were born?

I'm guessing that's what it's going to be like when you die. Do all living things have souls? Do souls even exist?

Probably not.

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Simon_Fretter posted:

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Vodka_Tonic posted:

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Do you remember anything before you were born?

I'm guessing that's what it's going to be like when you die. Do all living things have souls? Do souls even exist?

Probably not.

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It was just this time last year that scientists produced a sperm cell. They can also produce egg cells. They have been unable to produce children however, using the sperm and egg cells that they make. Explain that one?

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Simon_Fretter posted:

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Vodka_Tonic posted:

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Do you remember anything before you were born?

I'm guessing that's what it's going to be like when you die. Do all living things have souls? Do souls even exist?

Probably not.

---

Scientists have produced sperm cells. They can also produce egg cells. They have been unable to produce children however, using the sperm and egg cells that they make. Unless they use stem cells, of course. Explain that one?

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kolbar posted:

---

i actually do have some memories that i consider preconception but i cannot be 100 percent sure.the one that sticks out most to me was being in a room if you wanna call it a room of pure color but everything was changing colors extremly fast like being in a room created out of multi colored lightning bolts and there was one figure there no features just extremities that seemed to change with the room.

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Vodka_Tonic posted:

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Simon_Fretter posted:

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Vodka_Tonic posted:

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Do you remember anything before you were born?

I'm guessing that's what it's going to be like when you die. Do all living things have souls? Do souls even exist?

Probably not.

---

Scientists have produced sperm cells. They can also produce egg cells. They have been unable to produce children however, using the sperm and egg cells that they make. Unless they use stem cells, of course. Explain that one?

---

Explain what exactly?

They use germ cells to produce these sperm cells. The same cells used for sperm production in the testicles.

What's your point? what does that have to do with what I was talking about. This helps infertile men have children.

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kolbar posted:

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you know if you break down the human body after death to all its basic components there is 1 percent missing that cannot be explained.

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Vodka_Tonic posted:

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kolbar posted:

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you know if you break down the human body after death to all its basic components there is 1 percent missing that cannot be explained.

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Oh it must be a soul. Right?

Iso proof. I took some law classes. Need some proof here.

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Snackpack posted:

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1. Orson Scott Card.

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Snackpack posted:

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2.It's not faith if you have evidence to back it up.. That's not an opinion, it's just the way it is..

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Snackpack posted:

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- 3.There has been atheism as long as there has been theism. Don't take credit where you don't deserve it..

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posted:

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There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone circling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved." ~Darwin

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Snackpack posted:

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- 4. There is actually a movement in the Catholic religion to evangelize the word of god.. I know, because my mom's part of it.. It's annoying and always comes off as an underhanded slap in the face..

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Snackpack posted:

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- 5.I love how people always split up the credit that they deserve wholly with God.. it always seems humorous to me.

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Snackpack posted:

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6. lolol.. wow

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posted:

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“If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never know it was dark. Dark would be without meaning.” ~C.S. Lewis

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posted:

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“As long as you are proud you cannot know God. A proud man is always looking down on things and people: and, of course, as long as you are looking down you cannot see something that is above you. ~C.S. Lewis”

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kolbar posted:

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Vodka_Tonic posted:

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kolbar posted:

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you know if you break down the human body after death to all its basic components there is 1 percent missing that cannot be explained.

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Oh it must be a soul. Right?

Iso proof. I took some law classes. Need some proof here.

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i didnt say soul you did so you made that assumption not i

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kolbar posted:

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http://esoriano.wordpress.com/2007/05/25/from-dust-to-man-a-scientific-proof/

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kolbar posted:

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you are made of dirt and water sorry scientific fact ....i too can copy and paste lol


I’ve studied abiogenesis. It is required in a closed system and requires faith to be accepted. Abiogenesis is not scientific, it is a poor substitute, at best, for any real explanation of how live began. DO NOT suppose yourself to have the answer, lest you mark yourself a fool.

Further, Darwin’s THEORY of natural selection certainly applies within a species. But the Cambrian layer of the fossil record – of which Darwin had no knowledge – gives strong evidence that forcing his theory upon all the species as a collective whole was wrong. Darwin was wrong.

On top of that, he had no apparatus for the studying the contents of the human cell. He had no idea of the micro mechanics of cell maintenance and reproduction including the processes of DNA/RNA, amino acids, and proteins. If he had, he would likely have pointed to the possibility – as any good scientist would – of an intelligent designer – WITHOUT CALLING IT RELIGION.

Darwin admitted in his text that, “If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed, which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down.”

And stating that all biology is related because we share common composition is on the level of saying that because all books are ink on paper they are written by the same author.

Science tries too hard to sell its theories as fact, even when the theory is out-weighed by scientific law. The big bang theory, for instance, go directly against the first and second laws of thermodynamics. WHY??? It’s because the atheistic faction of the scientific community is too proud of its own work to consider the existence of ID.

But my biggest complaint stems from the simple fact that science has no apparatus nor methodology for studying the supernatural – including the existence of heaven, hell, God, and our very souls – yet takes the most arrogant position of declaring none of it exists. Shame on you. Stop it. You’re creating confusion.

Your best response is to say, “we have no comment”, and move back into the business of the material world.

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