Phlegm573
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Peyton Manning vs. Ryan Leaf
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Not a clearer example of winners vs. losers in life. They were the #1 and #2 NFL drafts in 1998.
One just signed a $90 million contract, despite being older, and is on track for the Hall of Fame. He will also practically be guaranteed a cushy spot as a commentator for ESPN or Fox after he retires. In other words, he is set for life and no matter what happens in Denver, is forever one of life's winners.
The other was arrested for the second time in less than a week in Asshole, Montana, for breaking into people's homes for drugs. Judging from his teeth, we can make an educated guess about which drug it was. http://www.tmz.com/2012/04/02/ryan-leaf-arrest-montana-burglary
Two promising college superstars drafted in the same year. Their fates could not have been more different. Modeeb could probably wax philosophical about this better than I could. I wonder how much was based on personal morals, and how much on blind luck.
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MayorShade
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Peyton Manning vs. Ryan Leaf
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choice, noun
1.
an act or instance of choosing; selection: Her choice of a computer was made after months of research. His parents were not happy with his choice of friends.
2.
the right, power, or opportunity to choose; option: The child had no choice about going to school.
3.
the person or thing chosen or eligible to be chosen: This book is my choice. He is one of many choices for the award.
4.
an alternative: There is another choice.
5.
an abundance or variety from which to choose: a wide choice of candidates.
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Modeeb
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Peyton Manning vs. Ryan Leaf
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Phlegm, let me try to experiment with an original, albeit abstract, analogy to your narrative fact pattern. Is an artery better than a vein in a circulatory system?
Now I dont know exactly where I'm headed with this. I have a general idea.  Lets begin with direction.
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Phlegm573
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No, both are equally important. The artery gets all the credit for bringing fresh blood to the tissue, but the vein is needed just as much to bring the used blood back to the heart!
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Modeeb
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I never studied biology or physiology and so, I cant be sure if my analogy will hold up to your example. I will rely on you to tell me how breathing is integrated into the circulatory system. I think Im headed towards asphyxia. I cant be sure.
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Phlegm573
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Well, different arteries then pump the used blood to the lungs where the blood is made fresh again by the lungs. Then the fresh blood is sent back to the heart by the pulmonary veins. Asphyxia prevents the lungs from working so that the used blood cannot be made fresh again with oxygen.
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Modeeb
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Very good. I learned something today. Now, I have to see if I can use this as an analogy on Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf.
I want to say Peyton is an artery and Ryan is a vein. No, I want to say both are just blood in two different states and they just appear different. Help me out. Let me try and get back to direction.
Two behaviors are headed in two different directions? This seems to be a major characteristic which matches the analogy. They both are performing very different functions, this also holds true. One is not more important than the other. Now I have problems. Peyton seems more valuable than Ryan doesn't he? But why? I will get to the lungs. I think it may work.
I hope you appreciate works in progress. Anyone who can help me out, please do. Either that or bring constructive criticisms.
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Phlegm573
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Peyton Manning vs. Ryan Leaf
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Are you saying that for a Peyton Manning to succeed, a Ryan Leaf must fail?
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Elocism
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Leaf is a tard
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Modeeb
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I dont know what the hell I'm saying Phlegm. I'm going to have to think about this. I think Im headed towards an easy explanatory example of how two seemingly polar opposites can both be just the way they are, one not be better than the other and at a core be the same. Am I close? Im playing SWTOR and going to watch basketball now. I believe I can tie breathing into something mysterious happening to both.
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"What is here is there. What is not here is nowhere." Vishvasara Tantra
"Ever tried, Ever Failed. No matter. Try Again.
Fail Again. Fail Better. Samuel Beckett
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Phlegm573
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Peyton Manning vs. Ryan Leaf
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Well, sure. Both seemed like dynamite quarterbacks in 1998 as they became eligible for the NFL. Teams fought each other to get either one. Many teams actually considered Leaf to be the better QB, including the Chargers, much to their sorrow. The question is, why did one succeed so spectacularly while the other failed so miserably? Chance? Fate? Morals?
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Modeeb
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Everything is clearer for me in the morning.
This comes from my morning meditation on a Tarot card, The Fifth major arcanum, The Pope. It is related to our discussion.
"There are two kinds of respiration, horizontal and vertical. Horizontal respiration takes place between the outside and the inside [Phlegm's explanation is elegant] and vertical respiration takes place between [in metaphysical space] above and below. The sting of death or the essential crisis of the supreme agony is the abrupt passage from horizontal to vertical respiration. Yet, he who has learned vertical respiration while living will be spared the sting of death. For him the nature of death will not be a right angle , but an arc of a circle. The transition is gradual instead of rectangular." Meditations on The Tarot a Journey into Christian Hermeticism pp100-101.
This will complete my perspective of Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf. There is no difference between them. They are part of a greater system, in a phenomenological form (i.e. of or relating to things wrapped in time-space).
[added by me]
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"What is here is there. What is not here is nowhere." Vishvasara Tantra
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ZigmundZag
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Leaf came from WSU.
There's your problem right there.
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LadyGodiva.
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Dedication, mental fortitude, luck (or bad luck) which tends to compound itself, background, determination, self esteem, tenacity... though both were top draft picks, I'm sure they're very different people. Talent itself is not enough to carry you through life.
Leaf's fall is almost as spectacular as Manning's success. He could have been a mediocre QB, a backup, or even simply fallen into anonymity as a used car salesman, but failure in one area of life can easily lead to failure in all areas. Why didn't he succeed in the NFL? Athletes have ups and downs - not everyone adjusts well to the NFL. Plus there's only one Manning and only a handful that are in the same league. Most QBs are okay with this and aspire to be like their idols - others simply crumble in defeat and wither away especially if they're constantly compared. How dedicated was he to the game? That's usually the difference maker... you can have average talent and work super hard and become good. But even with exceptional talent, if you don't try or take it seriously, or have a rather destructive personality regarding your teammates and lifestyle, you will not make it far. I don't think there's anything more self destructive than when a person feels like a worthless loser (especially when that's all they hear.) Sports are very taxing on the psyche when things go bad - not just anybody can put up with the criticism and keep going. While some feed on negativity and pressure, many cannot deal.
For some people, especially those who are more sensitive or less in control of their feelings, setbacks often snowball. I'd say it's mental weakness and an inability or unwillingness to deal, accept, and move on to perhaps less green pastures but fruitful all the same.
Modeeb picked a rather difficult analogy. If Payton is the lifebringer in the form of fresh oxigenated blood, then Leaf is the used up empty vessel that needs to be recharged. He's on the vein track while Payton rides in the artery. Leaf may have never been fated to be the biggest brightest red blood cell, but he could have been just one of many others - instead he gave up, was taken over by a virus, and picked up by the antibodies. Hopefully he makes it back to the heart and changes direction.
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Modeeb
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Lady, that is a good interpretation of my analogy and adds much.
I believe Phlegm posed a very difficult question and i wanted to respond not only to the phenomenal (physical) blood part of physical existence, but to the respiratory part from a metaphysical perspective. We beings are life blood in the Circulatory System of Existence.
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"What is here is there. What is not here is nowhere." Vishvasara Tantra
"Ever tried, Ever Failed. No matter. Try Again.
Fail Again. Fail Better. Samuel Beckett
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