Sin_of_Onin
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http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/02/us/ac360-race-study/index.html?hpt=hp_c2
Interesting article.
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Sgian_Dubh
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A 30-something white woman made "asian eyes" by pulling at the corners of her eyes the other day as my son and I were walking in to the store.
White people are the problem, always have been.
[edit for clarification]
My son is 4, and half-korean. The fat, white-trash slob was directing her ignorance and idiocy at him.
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dae_trist
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It's because your average black kid will be more likely to push someone off a swing than a white kid, even if it's a minority of them doing it. Nice black kids will readily acknowledge this and this is why they don't mind playing with white kids.
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dae_trist
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Sgian_Dubh posted:
A 30-something white woman made "asian eyes" by pulling at the corners of her eyes the other day as my son and I were walking in to the store.
White people are the problem, always have been.
Can't deny that. White people have an extremely high concentration of stupid/evil people who are relatively wealthy and mobile even if the majority of them are not bad.
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Yukishiro1
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"The study found that black children's optimism about interracial friendships unfortunately fades by adolescence. Killen and her team also tested 13-year-old children and showed the teens similar pictures designed to be ambiguous.
While black children start out positive, by age 13 they become as pessimistic as white kids. Dr. Killen says experiences of rejection and the harsh realities of race relations most likely explain the trend."
That's the sad part.
Also, another sad part is that this acted like a bat signal for dae_trist and now it will be hard to get him to go away again.
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Aerlinthian
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Damn, that didn't take long. 
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Sin_of_Onin
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The whole "race" thing is mostly cosmetic and cultural. I find it hard to treat asians as a different race. Might as well treat eastern europeans as a different race.
I don't think the article even mentioned them.
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dae_trist
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Yukishiro1 posted:
"The study found that black children's optimism about interracial friendships unfortunately fades by adolescence. Killen and her team also tested 13-year-old children and showed the teens similar pictures designed to be ambiguous.
While black children start out positive, by age 13 they become as pessimistic as white kids. Dr. Killen says experiences of rejection and the harsh realities of race relations most likely explain the trend."
That's the sad part.
Also, another sad part is that this acted like a bat signal for dae_trist and now it will be hard to get him to go away again.
Yeah, it has nothing to do with the fact that black kids are more likely to need to be disciplined in school and are more likely to be violent. You are living in a bubble if you don't pick up on this obvious fact. This is something every teacher picks up on.
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Yukishiro1
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In America there is race and then there is relations between American black and white people. The latter is more complicated than simple race relations. You can actually do some interesting tests to show this by looking at the different reactions white people have to recent black immigrants and african americans whose families have been here a long time.
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Vydor
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Pat Moyihan suggested that "the issue of race could benefit from a period of 'benign neglect'. When I watch my kids grow up and the friends they had, of all races, and think about my childhood in Texas surrounded by racists, I wonder if Pat was on to something. Raising my kids, we never really spoke about the issue, and in turn they never really seemed out of place around people of other races. Do we as parents teach racism into our children by trying to relive our pasts? I dunno.
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Yukishiro1
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Actually the study seems to suggest the opposite. White kids are much more pessimistic about race relations probably because their parents think not talking about it is a better solution and are silly enough to think their kids won't notice if they don't say anything. Whereas black kids are much more likely to hear about race from their parents even at an early age.
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Vydor
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Actually the study seems to suggest the opposite. White kids are much more pessimistic about race relations probably because their parents think not talking about it is a better solution and are silly enough to think their kids won't notice if they don't say anything. Whereas black kids are much more likely to hear about race from their parents even at an early age.
Yeah, but that doesn't jive with my experience. We talked about race when my kids had questions, which was only once or twice...other than that, racism was a non-factor.
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Sin_of_Onin
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Yeah this is not the first study that supports the position of having the kids sit down and talk things out a bit.
The whole, "lets not talk about it and hope it goes away" tactic doesn't work.
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Sin_of_Onin
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Vydor posted:
Yukishiro1 posted:
Actually the study seems to suggest the opposite. White kids are much more pessimistic about race relations probably because their parents think not talking about it is a better solution and are silly enough to think their kids won't notice if they don't say anything. Whereas black kids are much more likely to hear about race from their parents even at an early age.
Yeah, but that doesn't jive with my experience. We talked about race when my kids had questions, which was only once or twice...other than that, racism was a non-factor.
That is why studies don't just look at one kid.
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dae_trist
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The thing is, the study loses some significance because they exclude the other fabricated American races, "Hispanics" and "Asians". Then they should just have the kids pick which one is more likely to push someone off a swing.
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Yukishiro1
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The study also says it matters a lot whether your kids have contact with kids of other races or not. If they do, not talking about race may not matter. If they don't, it's probably more important. Kids are not dumb and if you never put them in situations where they can get to know kids of other races they will make assumptions, especially if you try to avoid talking about it.
Also, kids are kids. Even if there was no such thing as racism an an established ism kids would still discriminate against eachother based on skin color. Just like they do based on height and weight and hair color and eye color and whether you have ears that stick out from your head or who are poor or any other little thing they can find that distinguishes them from "normal" kids. Kids are wired to pick out and ostracize people who are different.
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Vydor
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Sin_of_Onin posted:
Vydor posted:
Yukishiro1 posted:
Actually the study seems to suggest the opposite. White kids are much more pessimistic about race relations probably because their parents think not talking about it is a better solution and are silly enough to think their kids won't notice if they don't say anything. Whereas black kids are much more likely to hear about race from their parents even at an early age.
Yeah, but that doesn't jive with my experience. We talked about race when my kids had questions, which was only once or twice...other than that, racism was a non-factor.
That is why studies don't just look at one kid.
-nods-
But that's how I believe it worked for me and my family, and how I would suggest it. My kids are blissfully unawares of the tensions that I grew up in, and will keep that from them as much as possible. Not to say completely ignorant, but definitely not as a major issue.
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Vydor
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Yukishiro1 posted:
The study also says it matters a lot whether your kids have contact with kids of other races or not. If they do, not talking about race may not matter. If they don't, it's probably more important. Kids are not dumb and if you never put them in situations where they can get to know kids of other races they will make assumptions, especially if you try to avoid talking about it.
Yeah, I think that has a lot to do with it.
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Friarspam
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What's wrong with idea of just telling kids to be nice to everyone that they can? Do you REALLY think that stressing "be nice to minorities" is the answer? Hell, if a person is a good and decent individual they should already be treating folks the same, regardless of "color".
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Eager_Igraine
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dae_trist posted:
Yeah, it has nothing to do with the fact that black kids are more likely to need to be disciplined in school and are more likely to be violent. You are living in a bubble if you don't pick up on this obvious fact.
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Sin_of_Onin
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Friarspam posted:
What's wrong with idea of just telling kids to be nice to everyone that they can? Do you REALLY think that stressing "be nice to minorities" is the answer? Hell, if a person is a good and decent individual they should already be treating folks the same, regardless of "color".
Actually one thing that they have tried is to just sit them down and let them talk about stuff. A lot of problems really pick up in middle school where social defenses go up never to be crossed again. It is less about being nice and more about not being afraid IMO.
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Yukishiro1
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Friarspam posted:
What's wrong with idea of just telling kids to be nice to everyone that they can? Do you REALLY think that stressing "be nice to minorities" is the answer? Hell, if a person is a good and decent individual they should already be treating folks the same, regardless of "color".
Actually what the study is suggesting is that this attitude is more harmful than you think it is. Your attempt to ignore race entirely doesn't work because kids arn't as dumb as you think.
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Friarspam
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Friarspam posted:
What's wrong with idea of just telling kids to be nice to everyone that they can? Do you REALLY think that stressing "be nice to minorities" is the answer? Hell, if a person is a good and decent individual they should already be treating folks the same, regardless of "color".
Actually what the study is suggesting is that this attitude is more harmful than you think it is. Your attempt to ignore race entirely doesn't work because kids arn't as dumb as you think.
I didn't say we "ignored" race. I just don't see how so many people like to "celebrate" some races and then act like they're treating everyone the same. I am not referring to individuals or families, either. I have friends all over the spectrum and I really enjoy aspects of their culture. I'm referring to the society-wide busybodies who create more conflict than they "fix".
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Afio
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Yukishiro1 posted:
The study also says it matters a lot whether your kids have contact with kids of other races or not. If they do, not talking about race may not matter. If they don't, it's probably more important. Kids are not dumb and if you never put them in situations where they can get to know kids of other races they will make assumptions, especially if you try to avoid talking about it.
Also, kids are kids. Even if there was no such thing as racism an an established ism kids would still discriminate against eachother based on skin color. Just like they do based on height and weight and hair color and eye color and whether you have ears that stick out from your head or who are poor or any other little thing they can find that distinguishes them from "normal" kids. Kids are wired to pick out and ostracize people who are different.
I have posted this before. I was raised in a small Mississippi town. We owned a grocery that was across the street to what would be considered projects today. I played with black children until we moved to New Orleans when I was about 7. I did not realize that they were "different" until one day I noticed that there were no black kids in my school and I asked about it. The nuns danced around it and told me that they had their own schools.
I did not see them as different.
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Yukishiro1
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If you live in a mixed area race won't be a vector of discrimination because people having different skin colors will be "normal." Instead kids will tease the guy with the birthmark or the buck teeth or the ears that stick out. In this case talking about race with your kids is probably not necessary.
If you are one of just a few black kids in the neighborhood the kids are going to notice and probably tease you about it even if there's no history of racism. In this case talking about race with your kids is probably a good idea.
About 90-95% of americans live in still defacto segregated neighborhoods. So for most parents trying to hide the ball on race is not a great idea.
In some ways the WORST situation is segregated neighborhoods but mixed schools. What tends to happen there is that racial cliques develop at the school and although in theory the school is mixed in practice it's just two different schools happening in the same building. This happens a lot in berkeley and oakland schools, for example.
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Eager_Igraine
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Yukishiro1 posted:
If you live in a mixed area race won't be a vector of discrimination because people having different skin colors will be "normal."
I expect this would also be influenced by the relative socioeconomic status of the mix, although you might be assuming relative parity in your statement, I dunno.
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Yukishiro1
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Yeah I am talking about those very few neighborhoods in America which have mixed racial populations who are really mixed in in a house by house sort of way and other than race pretty much similar.
There are very, very few such neighborhoods in America. Probably less than 5%.
At least 85% of American housing is racially segregated in reality. There will be a few odd thumbs here and there but by and large these neighborhoods are almost (i.e. 95%+ monoracial). A large chunk of the remaining "integrated" neighborhoods are not actually integrated in a meaningful way - they are neighborhoods where, for example, wealthy(er) childless whites are moving back into traditionally family minority neighborhoods in cities because of gentrification. This isn't a genuinely mixed neighborhood - it's just a neighborhood in the middle of being resegregated to match new economic and social realities.
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Eager_Igraine
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Yeah I am talking about those very few neighborhoods in America which have mixed racial populations who are really mixed in in a house by house sort of way and other than race pretty much similar.
There are very, very few such neighborhoods in America. Probably less than 5%.
At least 85% of American housing is racially segregated in reality.
I didn't live in that 5% until I went to university. 
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I always knew 95% of you were racists living in lil racist's homes and neighborhoods!!
White population: 5,687
Black population: 3,251
Asian population: 10,221
Hispanic or Latino population: 3,580
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander population: 3,949
Some other race population: 1,046
Two or more races population: 1,203
American Indian population: 314
Beat that ya Racists!
enter your zip code and scroll down.
http://www.city-data.com/
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i didnt read all this crap, but i bet the behavior is correlated with dolls and action figures and such being omgwhite 
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It really isn't a question of race though.
I think you are all dumbasses no matter what race you are.
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People don't think I speak Spanish so I hear some interesting things, enough to know that every race has their racists.
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