Hyperimiator
Title: Maximus Probus
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oops I meant they need earmarks or they won't give....
The worship of greed is now complete.
.....
(Reuters) - The huge federal transportation bill was in tatters in early March when Representative Mike Rogers of Alabama posed a heretical idea for breaking through gridlock in the House.
In a closed-door meeting with fellow Republicans, Rogers recommended reviving a proven legislative sweetener that became politically toxic a year ago.
Bring back earmarks, Rogers, who was first elected to Congress in 2002, told his colleagues.
Few members of Congress have been bold enough to use the "e" word since both the House and Senate temporarily banned the practice last year after public outcries about Alaska's "Bridge to Nowhere" and other pork barrel projects.
But as lawmakers wrestle with legislative paralysis, there are signs that earmarks - special interest projects that used to be tacked onto major bills - could make a comeback.
"I just got up ... and did it because I was mad because they were talking about how we can't get 218 votes," Rogers told Reuters, referring to the minimum of 218 votes needed to pass legislation in the 435-member House.
"There was a lot of applause when I made my comments. I had a few freshmen boo me, but that's okay. By and large it was very well embraced," he added.
New Republican members backed by the Tea Party movement have railed against earmarks as a symbol of out-of-control government spending and unaccountable lawmakers.
Congress has another nine months to operate under an earmark ban, so discussions on lifting the ban are in their early stages, members and aides say.
But on the House side, where a splintered Republican majority is struggling to muster enough votes to pass bills, second thoughts about the earmark ban are "pretty pervasive," said a senior aide.
Rogers' remarks in the closed caucus meeting in early March were echoed by two other Republican lawmakers, Representatives Louie Gohmert and Kay Granger, according to some at the meeting.
House Speaker John Boehner, who pushed for the earmark ban, is considering forming a committee to study earmarks reforms, according to Rogers. Other sources also said that during the closed meeting, the speaker said he would consider reforms, and other leading Republicans did not shoot down the idea.
Boehner has acknowledged that the ban makes his job more difficult. In past years, one reason the sprawling transportation bill could move through Congress with bipartisan support was because thousands of lawmakers' pet projects were tacked onto the bill, he has said.
But reviving earmarks is still so controversial that Boehner and other leaders are unlikely to publicly discuss it in an election year in which pork barrel spending is still under attack. The discussions so far appear to be among Republicans.
"The House did the right thing in instituting an earmark ban, and the American people strongly support it," a Boehner spokesman said in response to questions.
In the Senate, Thad Cochran, the senior Republican on the Appropriations Committee - an earmark gateway in the old days - told Reuters: "At some point there will surely be conversations about alternatives" to the earmark ban. He was quick to add that he has not tried to initiate the conversation.
Democrats agreed to banning earmarks after suffering big defeats in 2010 congressional elections and after President Barack Obama warned he would veto bills containing them.
But like Republicans, Democrats have differing views on keeping the ban. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is on record defending earmarks, saying elected representatives are more in touch with local needs than executive branch bureaucrats.
Steve Ellis, vice president of Taxpayers for Common Sense, a non-partisan budget watchdog group, said discussions about reviving earmarks suggest the desperation of a Congress in which stalled legislation is now routine.
The difficulties in passing bills are leading lawmakers to conclude the only answer is to "bring the political grease back into the system," Ellis said.
BRING BACK THE GREASE
Political analysts have long referred to earmarks, or "member-directed funding" as it is sometimes known, as the grease enabling legislation to move through Congress.
Republican Representative Steven LaTourette, an 18-year House veteran, said the earmark ban "has affected discipline" within the party. "You can't get 218 votes (out of 242 Republican House members) and part of that has to be if you can't give people anything (earmarks), you can't take anything away from them."
If a member of Congress agrees with 90 percent of a pending bill but is "uncomfortable" with the other 10 percent, "Sometimes taking care of your district (with earmarks) made up for that 10 percent," he said.
Some believe earmarks got a bad rap.
Public outrage focused on projects like the notorious "Bridge to Nowhere" connecting the Alaskan mainland with an isolated island, or a teapot museum in North Carolina.
Other earmarks have funded crucial projects, proponents say. One example is the "Predator" drone, the unmanned military aircraft used in Afghanistan and other hot-spots to target militants without jeopardizing U.S. soldiers' lives, that came from a lawmaker's request.
Both sides in the debate agree that before earmarks resurface, reforms are essential.
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The Hyperimiator song http://www.wfmu.org/listen.ram?show=1639&starttime=1:40:35 "You are never going to be able to vote for the revolution. Get that hope out of your mind" -Jerry Rubin http://www.youtube.com/user/Hyperimiator#p/u
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Rhodoman
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"Laws are like sausages, it is better not to see them being made." - Otto von Bismarck
Rho
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Venit hiems quidquid Latine dictum sit altum viditur
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Dark_EternalFF
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If they want to run the country like Mafiosos, I vote we start treating them as such.
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HeartView
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Dark_EternalFF posted:
If they want to run the country like Mafiosos, I vote we start treating them as such.
Cement galoshes?
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Rhodoman
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Politicians, like diapers, should be changed regularly and for the same reason.
Rho
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Rho is correct. - Varece
Venit hiems quidquid Latine dictum sit altum viditur
Referring to illegal aliens as 'immigrants' is the same as referring to shoplifters as 'shoppers' - Dorvinion
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Arc_DT
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The earmark process had definitely gotten out of hand, and I'll be the first to admit that the democrats botched this horribly when they were in charge, Murtha in particular.
But most earmarks don't *give* money; they designate how already allocated funds are to be used. And while virtually all earmarks went unchallenged, it was possible to do so. I think it should be possible to introduce an earmark system with all of the benefits of streamlining legislation but with a little more oversight and fairness than what we had before.
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Hyperimiator
Title: Maximus Probus
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I don't think we should have to bribe legislators with earmarks to get them to do their jobs.
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The Hyperimiator song http://www.wfmu.org/listen.ram?show=1639&starttime=1:40:35 "You are never going to be able to vote for the revolution. Get that hope out of your mind" -Jerry Rubin http://www.youtube.com/user/Hyperimiator#p/u
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Itab
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Hyperimiator posted:
I don't think we should have to bribe legislators with earmarks to get them to do their jobs.
Bingo. Entitled politicians should be voted out or removed as not fit to do their sworn duties to their states.
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Steelwind_Oo
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Itab posted:
Hyperimiator posted:
I don't think we should have to bribe legislators with earmarks to get them to do their jobs.
Bingo. Entitled politicians should be voted out or removed as not fit to do their sworn duties to their states.
Pretty much this. I still seriously think there should be a short comprehension test before they vote too to ensure they actually read and understood what is before them, heh.
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Rhodoman
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We should keep firing them until someone is elected who doesn't need to be bribed.
Sad as it is, our crappy congress is ultimately our own fault.
Rho
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Venit hiems quidquid Latine dictum sit altum viditur
Referring to illegal aliens as 'immigrants' is the same as referring to shoplifters as 'shoppers' - Dorvinion
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Arc_DT
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Itab posted:
Bingo. Entitled politicians should be voted out or removed as not fit to do their sworn duties to their states.
Red herring argument. It is not their sworn duty to vote in favor of any particular bill. The fact that a vote is held is proof that they are entitled to vote how they see fit on it.
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Itab
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Arc_DT posted:
Itab posted:
Bingo. Entitled politicians should be voted out or removed as not fit to do their sworn duties to their states.
Red herring argument. It is not their sworn duty to vote in favor of any particular bill. The fact that a vote is held is proof that they are entitled to vote how they see fit on it.
Fair point.
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Aerlinthian
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I want to earmark D.C. for a giant meteor strike.
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Kanga_Roo
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Ron Paul is generally for entitlements (earmarks) when he adds them to a bill and against them when he votes against that same bill. That's what his supporters call "consistency"
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Laws control the lesser man... Right conduct controls the greater one.
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ChemEngineer
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But they are more in touch with what the people need. It's for our own good.
/rage
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Hyperimiator
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The Hyperimiator song http://www.wfmu.org/listen.ram?show=1639&starttime=1:40:35 "You are never going to be able to vote for the revolution. Get that hope out of your mind" -Jerry Rubin http://www.youtube.com/user/Hyperimiator#p/u
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Tai-Daishar_MT
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Hard to imagine earmarks being an issue when they can't even propose a budget, let alone pass one.
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Hyperimiator
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Tai-Daishar_MT posted:
Hard to imagine earmarks being an issue when they can't even propose a budget, let alone pass one.
That is their whole point, without earmarks (internal bribes) they cant agree on a budget or pretty much anything else.
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The Hyperimiator song http://www.wfmu.org/listen.ram?show=1639&starttime=1:40:35 "You are never going to be able to vote for the revolution. Get that hope out of your mind" -Jerry Rubin http://www.youtube.com/user/Hyperimiator#p/u
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Ordal
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YOU READ THIS BECAUSE ITS IN BOLD I FOOLD YOU IDIOTS DUMBASS IDIOTS IDIOTS IDIOTS YOURE ALL STUPID IDIOTS EAT YOUR OWN BUTTHOLES UNTIL YOU DIE YOU MORONS IDIdOOTS IDIOTS TIDOSIOTOST
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Tai-Daishar_MT
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I utterly reject that lame ass excuse. If we as an electorate had any sense at all, we would hold our government to actually doing their jobs or vote them out on their ass. Instead, we have far too many idiots convinced that one lunatic party or the other has a clue and that the other worships at the tit of the devil. In other words, we absolutely deserve the moron overlords we empower.
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Aerlinthian
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Tai-Daishar_MT posted:
In other words, we absolutely deserve the moron overlords we empower.
Mostly agree but I do blame the media and education establishments for being willful contributors to the collective ignorance. For example, people should know that the most important elections are their local elections, but yet the media does a stellar job of avoiding coverage of those for national coverage issues. It's more or less a shell game.
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FineYoungCannibals
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 FYC
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FineYoungCannibals
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FYC
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Sith_Mauler
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Well I ain't first class
But I ain't white trash
I'm wild and a little crazy too
I have seen a lot of things in my life time.
That is why I walk the line I walk.
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Hyperimiator
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The Hyperimiator song http://www.wfmu.org/listen.ram?show=1639&starttime=1:40:35 "You are never going to be able to vote for the revolution. Get that hope out of your mind" -Jerry Rubin http://www.youtube.com/user/Hyperimiator#p/u
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AliHajiSheik
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Hyperimiator posted:
Tai-Daishar_MT posted:
Hard to imagine earmarks being an issue when they can't even propose a budget, let alone pass one.
That is their whole point, without earmarks (internal bribes) they cant agree on a budget or pretty much anything else.
Do you even understand how earmarks work? And your cartoon on "Trickle Down Wealth," very funny. We can both agree that the needy should get help, but the difference is that you see everyone as being needy. Cut federal spending by 50% and take the power away from these Congresspeople.
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*yawn*
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Hyperimiator
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AliHajiSheik posted:
Hyperimiator posted:
Tai-Daishar_MT posted:
Hard to imagine earmarks being an issue when they can't even propose a budget, let alone pass one.
That is their whole point, without earmarks (internal bribes) they cant agree on a budget or pretty much anything else.
Do you even understand how earmarks work? And your cartoon on "Trickle Down Wealth," very funny. We can both agree that the needy should get help, but the difference is that you see everyone as being needy. Cut federal spending by 50% and take the power away from these Congresspeople.
You have no shortage of gall, inferring I don't understand earmarks, (having once engaged a lobbyist and written a few of my own) and then you come out with your stellar suggestion to "cut federal spending 50%" and problem solved as a remedy, why not just wave your magic wand, as that has about as much chance of success.
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The Hyperimiator song http://www.wfmu.org/listen.ram?show=1639&starttime=1:40:35 "You are never going to be able to vote for the revolution. Get that hope out of your mind" -Jerry Rubin http://www.youtube.com/user/Hyperimiator#p/u
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AliHajiSheik
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Hyperimiator posted:
AliHajiSheik posted:
Hyperimiator posted:
[quote=Tai-Daishar_MT]Hard to imagine earmarks being an issue when they can't even propose a budget, let alone pass one.
That is their whole point, without earmarks (internal bribes) they cant agree on a budget or pretty much anything else.
Do you even understand how earmarks work? And your cartoon on "Trickle Down Wealth," very funny. We can both agree that the needy should get help, but the difference is that you see everyone as being needy. Cut federal spending by 50% and take the power away from these Congresspeople.
You have no shortage of gall, inferring I don't understand earmarks, (having once engaged a lobbyist and written a few of my own) and then you come out with your stellar suggestion to "cut federal spending 50%" and problem solved as a remedy, why not just wave your magic wand, as that has about as much chance of success.[/quote]
Oh God, please don't have another drama filled hissy fit. So when people ask you questions, the inference is always that the answer is assumed to be no?
Try this. Earmarks don't add money to the budget, they take money allocated to a department and require that those funds be spent for a particular purpose. You say that it is a bribe, but the bribe isn't in money, its in influence and being able to say back home that you brought home the bacon. People like bacon so they keep voting them into office.
You laugh at my solution of cutting 50% but I never see you stop sucking at the government tit. Of course not, you only work on worthwhile public projects. Right? Well people tend to like their own worthwhile public projects while hating others. My solution is to cut the amount that can be spent and you solution is to get mad at the people doing the spending. My magic wand is more likely to work than yours.
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jeune
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Looks like another great American politician... he does not like free speech... freedom from government entwined with religion.... heck the whole first amendment. Loves the military industrial complex... kind of scary actually.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_D._Rogers
Except on spending, where he earned only a 23% rating from Citizens Against Government Waste... He notably dissented with the Morocco free trade agreement due to potential job losses in the Alabama textile industry. On social issues Rogers has voted very conservatively, with vehement opposition to abortion, gay marriage and immigration. However, he has acted to protect the armed services industry in his area. On the Armed Services Committee, he opposed a new series of military base closures and won passage of a bill that would assure that universities would provide access to their facilities for military recruitment purposes and ROTC...
Rogers was a recipient of former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay's ARMPAC campaign contributions. DeLay was prosecuted and convicted on charges of felony money laundering of campaign finances and conspiracy to launder money. To date, Rogers has not offered to return any of the $30,000 he received. Rogers said that DeLay is innocent until proven guilty, and that he would not return the money "while the judicial process runs its course."...
Rogers supported an amendment to declare that people retain the right to pray and to recognize their religious beliefs, heritage, and traditions on public property, including schools. He cosponsored legislation to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States. Rogers sponsored a bill expressing the continued support of Congress for equal access of military recruiters to institutions of higher education.[ He also introduced legislation making it illegal to satirize or in any way parody the Transportation Security Administration.
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combat_mage_sc
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Everyone hates congress, but they loooooooooove their own representatives.  
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Hyperimiator
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AliHajiSheik posted:
Hyperimiator posted:
AliHajiSheik posted:
[quote=Hyperimiator][quote=Tai-Daishar_MT]Hard to imagine earmarks being an issue when they can't even propose a budget, let alone pass one.
That is their whole point, without earmarks (internal bribes) they cant agree on a budget or pretty much anything else.
Do you even understand how earmarks work? And your cartoon on "Trickle Down Wealth," very funny. We can both agree that the needy should get help, but the difference is that you see everyone as being needy. Cut federal spending by 50% and take the power away from these Congresspeople.
You have no shortage of gall, inferring I don't understand earmarks, (having once engaged a lobbyist and written a few of my own) and then you come out with your stellar suggestion to "cut federal spending 50%" and problem solved as a remedy, why not just wave your magic wand, as that has about as much chance of success.[/quote]
Oh God, please don't have another drama filled hissy fit. So when people ask you questions, the inference is always that the answer is assumed to be no?
Try this. Earmarks don't add money to the budget, they take money allocated to a department and require that those funds be spent for a particular purpose. You say that it is a bribe, but the bribe isn't in money, its in influence and being able to say back home that you brought home the bacon. People like bacon so they keep voting them into office.
You laugh at my solution of cutting 50% but I never see you stop sucking at the government tit. Of course not, you only work on worthwhile public projects. Right? Well people tend to like their own worthwhile public projects while hating others. My solution is to cut the amount that can be spent and you solution is to get mad at the people doing the spending. My magic wand is more likely to work than yours.[/quote]
Don't use water out of a tap, don't use electricity, don't drive on roads, and don't flush the toilet, and I won't need to do my useless infrastructure projects, and don't forget to go off the grid so we don't have to see your worthless imaginary solutions for difficult complex problems.
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The Hyperimiator song http://www.wfmu.org/listen.ram?show=1639&starttime=1:40:35 "You are never going to be able to vote for the revolution. Get that hope out of your mind" -Jerry Rubin http://www.youtube.com/user/Hyperimiator#p/u
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AliHajiSheik
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Congressmen suggest they need to be bribed to pass legislation
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Don't dislocate your shoulder patting yourself on the back. Plenty of people do important things. Your sarcasm about what you do being useless is a slight of your own imagination, I don't think its useless and never have. Keep on the subject please and see the point that all the things you do don't have to be done with federal money. Why did you immediately go to the conclusion that it does? Would any of your projects go undone if the feds stopped funding them (assuming that they do.)?
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Hyperimiator
Title: Maximus Probus
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AliHajiSheik posted:
Don't dislocate your shoulder patting yourself on the back. Plenty of people do important things. Your sarcasm about what you do being useless is a slight of your own imagination, I don't think its useless and never have. Keep on the subject please and see the point that all the things you do don't have to be done with federal money. Why did you immediately go to the conclusion that it does? Would any of your projects go undone if the feds stopped funding them (assuming that they do.)?
I am just quoting you, are you unable to read what you yourself wrote?
Yes they would, without the collection of taxes these projects would never be built, the privare sector does not, nor have they really ever built these kind of projects, and that goes back to the days of Rome and beyond.
If you have a new concept of civilization why don't you spend some time writing a book since you are not fettered by logic or human history in your understanding of civics and how it relates to how public works are built, which we enjoy as part of our modern civilization.
I am sick to death of the dumbing down on reality, expoused by current conservative leadership and oft repeated by fools who have no understanding of what it takes to make civilization as we know it exist.
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The Hyperimiator song http://www.wfmu.org/listen.ram?show=1639&starttime=1:40:35 "You are never going to be able to vote for the revolution. Get that hope out of your mind" -Jerry Rubin http://www.youtube.com/user/Hyperimiator#p/u
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Rhodoman
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Congressmen suggest they need to be bribed to pass legislation
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combat_mage_sc posted:
Everyone hates congress, but they loooooooooove their own representatives.
My Congressman is Pete Stark.
No Like.
Rho
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Rho is correct. - Varece
Venit hiems quidquid Latine dictum sit altum viditur
Referring to illegal aliens as 'immigrants' is the same as referring to shoplifters as 'shoppers' - Dorvinion
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AliHajiSheik
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Hyperimiator posted:
AliHajiSheik posted:
Don't dislocate your shoulder patting yourself on the back. Plenty of people do important things. Your sarcasm about what you do being useless is a slight of your own imagination, I don't think its useless and never have. Keep on the subject please and see the point that all the things you do don't have to be done with federal money. Why did you immediately go to the conclusion that it does? Would any of your projects go undone if the feds stopped funding them (assuming that they do.)?
I am just quoting you, are you unable to read what you yourself wrote?
Yes they would, without the collection of taxes these projects would never be built, the privare sector does not, nor have they really ever built these kind of projects, and that goes back to the days of Rome and beyond.
If you have a new concept of civilization why don't you spend some time writing a book since you are not fettered by logic or human history in your understanding of civics and how it relates to how public works are built, which we enjoy as part of our modern civilization.
I am sick to death of the dumbing down on reality, expoused by current conservative leadership and oft repeated by fools who have no understanding of what it takes to make civilization as we know it exist.
Seriously, are you debating with someone else? To be fair, I reread my posts on this thread and I see nothing I wrote that indicates that you are useless.
I think you have reading comprehension issues because I was very clear when I wrote that I don't believe that that Federal Government should be funding many of these types of projects. Either you didn't read that clearly or you don't distinguish between the Federal Government and the state governments. Here's a hint, when you go to sign the back of a check from the State of Hawai'i, most likely some of that money comes from your neighbors, but oftentimes, the money is actually from the Feds who funnel it through the states. If the good citizens of Hawai'i, through their elected representatives, want to secure your services for a worthwhile project, then they shouldn't use my federal tax dollars to do it. There are plenty of things that need to be done in my own state.
No one likes paying taxes but they always seem to want strangers to pay them. Case in point, the Hawai'i Transient Accommodations tax. Very clever setting up a tax that almost no local has to pay.
Oh, and stop with the imagery of you holding back the barbarians in defense of civilization. Sanctimony isn't one of your better virtues.
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