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Topic: Liberals, conservatives, values and how we perceive each other
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Fist_de_Yuma
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Subject:
Liberals, conservatives, values and how we perceive each other
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They have started to study how liberals and conservative perceive each other. The finding was not a shock to conservatives and generated outrage with liberals. It seems that conservatives are very good at perceiving the truth about liberals, or at least predicting the liberal response to an issue. Liberals on the other hand are almost always wrong about what conservatives think and feel about an issue. In other worse one side believes in facts and the other in stereotypes.
For the most part liberals and conservatives are not that far apart on the important issues of the day. The divide is caused by the liberals refusal to believe that conservatives are anything but hard hearted monsters; out for profit and nothing else. When people are lied about and slandered they find it a bit hard to turn around and work out the differences between them.
I understand liberals are not all evil. In fact only very small minority is evil, just as a minority of conservatives are evil. Of course the rest of the liberals seem to be puppets of the evil so the results are mostly the same. Perhaps my view is a bit harsh. I’m always looking for evidence that I’m wrong. I beg liberals to prove to me they can debate and issue without walling in the mud. Sadly, all they do in reinforce my belief. Studies like this help explain the problem. They really believe their own propaganda about conservatives.
http://www.redstate.com/bs/2012/03/28/liberals-conservatives-values-and-how-we-perceive-each-other/
Results indicate that people at all points on the political spectrum are at least intuitively aware of the actual differences in moral concerns between liberals and conservatives: they correctly predicted that liberals would care more than conservatives about the two individualizing foundations and that conservatives would care more than liberals about the three binding foundations. The results also confirm previous studies of partisan misperception (e.g. Chambers, et al., 2006) by showing that, in general, people overestimate how dramatically liberals and conservatives differ. Remarkably, people even morally stereotype their own ingroup, with liberals overestimating liberals’ strong individualizing concerns and underestimating liberals’ weak binding concerns, and conservatives exaggerating conservatives’ moral concerns in the opposite directions.
Our results go beyond previous studies, however, in finding and explaining an otherwise puzzling result: liberals were the least accurate. We presented three competing hypotheses about accuracy: 1) We found no support for the hypothesis that liberals would be most accurate; liberals were the least accurate about conservatives and about liberals. The largest inaccuracies were in liberals’ underestimations of conservatives’ Harm and Fairness concerns, and liberals further exaggerated the political differences by overestimating their own such concerns. 2) We found some support for the hypothesis that moderates would be most accurate, which they were in the case of the binding foundations. However, and most crucially, partisan inaccuracies were not mirror images of each other. On the contrary, liberals and conservatives both tended to exaggerate their binding foundation differences by underestimating the typical liberal and overestimating the typical conservative. 3) Finally, we found some support for the hypothesis that conservatives would be the most accurate, which they were in the case of the individualizing foundations. In line with Moral Foundations Theory, liberals dramatically underestimated the Harm and Fairness concerns of conservatives.
-----signature-----
There are three kind of liberals;
Stupid, ignorant or evil
The result is always evil but the intent is not always evil. Not that it makes much difference in the long run.
No one here is exactly as they seem. - G'Kar
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SirGarth
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Subject:
Liberals, conservatives, values and how we perceive each other
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Fist_de_Yuma posted:
I beg liberals to prove to me they can debate and issue without walling in the mud.
-----signature-----
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Fist_de_Yuma
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Subject:
Liberals, conservatives, values and how we perceive each other
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SirGarth posted:
Fist_de_Yuma posted:
I beg liberals to prove to me they can debate and issue without walling in the mud.
Example one. Laugh instead of trying to prove me wrong. You'll have to go back a few years, to the point where I gave up trying to talk sense to liberals. Never mind, a liberal would never brother to do that. Instead they are the other ignorant fools will play the mocking game, something they are much better at than trying to dig out the facts.
-----signature-----
There are three kind of liberals;
Stupid, ignorant or evil
The result is always evil but the intent is not always evil. Not that it makes much difference in the long run.
No one here is exactly as they seem. - G'Kar
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Tych2
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Subject:
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Fist for someone to prove you wrong they have to believe what you say has merit. They have to put vaule in what you are saying. I am willing to bet perhaps one or two will try and prove you wrong for some reason or another,but most probably don't believe what you say has any merit or value so they aren't going to do it.
Others (like me) don't see a point in trying to prove you wrong. What would I gain by it?
-----signature-----
We have enough youth. What we need is a fountain of smart.
Drill Anwar!
Kapie
Drevid in Tanks
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IMHO
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I had such high hopes for this thread.
-----signature-----
You're Right ~ Koneg
He's [Manegarm] like the Fred Phelps of atheism. ~Bubbledude
many of you are in the Republican boat, aka the ship of fools. ~Modeeb
We are here on Earth to fart around. Don't let anybody tell you any different. ~Kurt Vonnegut
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Z-Elder
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Subject:
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for liberals, morality is largely a matter of three values: caring for the weak, fairness and liberty. Conservatives share those concerns (although they think of fairness and liberty differently) and add three others: loyalty, respect for authority and sanctity.
In his research, Haidt and his colleagues refer to the latter three values as “binding valuesâ€, as they bind together people into larger groups.
These foundations are Ingroup/loyalty (supporting moral obligations of patriotism and “us vs. them†thinking); Authority/respect (including concerns about social order and the importance of traditions and role-based duties in maintaining that order) and Purity/sanctity (including concerns about treating the body as a temple and living in a higher, more “divine†way, versus a baser, more carnal way).
So when starting their "research" they basically define RWNs as higher forms of life and then find that progressives are deficient!
And of course Fisted drags his knuckles up to the material and gulps their Kool Aid without understanding the words he reads.
-----signature-----
"The poison of our ordinary habits has killed the magic of the moment"
"Men are not in hell because God is angry with them . . .
they stand in the state of division and separation which by their own motion, they have made for themselves"
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Fist_de_Yuma
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Subject:
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There was a time a few years ago when all I posted was about the issues. Liberals prove to me that they are only her to troll, belittle, slander, lie and tell whatever story is currently on the liberal propaganda train. I gave up. I admit that I mostly post today using liberal tactics. I still use facts, unlike them, but my tone is pure liberal. They hate me and I hate them, so be it.
Many conservatives are still in the, "They are mistaken but at base they are good people. They will understand if I explain it to them." Believe me, it is a waste of time. If you want to talk over the issues you need to find someplace else to do it.
I would like to point out that none of the posters have posted about the issue of liberals being mostly wrong about conservatives, but conservatives being mostly right about liberals. Those are the facts. As I said, I don't expect liberals here to believe or even understand the facts. It is who they are. Of course when the President of the United States is out there lying about the issues it is hard to blame them. Saying one thing and doing another is always forgiven by liberals when done by a liberal, it is just who they are.
-----signature-----
There are three kind of liberals;
Stupid, ignorant or evil
The result is always evil but the intent is not always evil. Not that it makes much difference in the long run.
No one here is exactly as they seem. - G'Kar
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SirGarth
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Subject:
Liberals, conservatives, values and how we perceive each other
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Tych2 posted:
Fist for someone to prove you wrong they have to believe what you say has merit. They have to put vaule in what you are saying.
This.
Fist, you start your arguments wallowing in the mud. are you honestly surprised when people don't want to follow you down there?
-----signature-----
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Fist_de_Yuma
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Subject:
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SirGarth posted:
Tych2 posted:
Fist for someone to prove you wrong they have to believe what you say has merit. They have to put vaule in what you are saying.
This.
Fist, you start your arguments wallowing in the mud. are you honestly surprised when people don't want to follow you down there?
I read this and this word sprang instantly to mind, "deranged". As a liberal you believe what you want to believe and no amount of facts will ever change that. Hang the White-Hispanic, no need to study the evidence. Perhaps I’m wrong but you could never prove it by the liberal posts.
Conservative; Let's agree to disagree
Liberal; No, you're wrong.
Conservative; I think we should wait for the facts to play out.
Liberal; No, we have to act.
Conservative; that is a good idea but we cannot afford it.
Liberal; you heartless creep, of course we can afford it, just raise taxes.
Conservative; Taxes are good at a point but beyond that point it discourages whatever is taxed, in this case jobs.
Liberal; You just love the rich and hate the poor.
Conservative; Helping people to buy homes they cannot afford is crazy, it will lead to a massive crash.
Liberal; You just hate the poor and don’t want them housed.
Conservative; since the poor is a major part of your voting block it is not a surprise that your policies create more poor.
Liberal; hate monger, every one knows that Bush made everyone poor.
-----signature-----
There are three kind of liberals;
Stupid, ignorant or evil
The result is always evil but the intent is not always evil. Not that it makes much difference in the long run.
No one here is exactly as they seem. - G'Kar
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__Bonk__
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Subject:
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Puma is the voice of reason on this board
-----signature-----
I keep my eyes fixed on the sun!
A change in feeling is a change in destiny.
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Fist_de_Yuma
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Z-Elder posted:
for liberals, morality is largely a matter of three values: caring for the weak, fairness and liberty. Conservatives share those concerns (although they think of fairness and liberty differently) and add three others: loyalty, respect for authority and sanctity.
In his research, Haidt and his colleagues refer to the latter three values as “binding valuesâ€, as they bind together people into larger groups.
These foundations are Ingroup/loyalty (supporting moral obligations of patriotism and “us vs. them†thinking); Authority/respect (including concerns about social order and the importance of traditions and role-based duties in maintaining that order) and Purity/sanctity (including concerns about treating the body as a temple and living in a higher, more “divine†way, versus a baser, more carnal way).
So when starting their "research" they basically define RWNs as higher forms of life and then find that progressives are deficient!
And of course Fisted drags his knuckles up to the material and gulps their Kool Aid without understanding the words he reads.
Clearly you understand conservative far better than those who created this study; a center liberal by the way.
-----signature-----
There are three kind of liberals;
Stupid, ignorant or evil
The result is always evil but the intent is not always evil. Not that it makes much difference in the long run.
No one here is exactly as they seem. - G'Kar
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Tych2
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Fist you remind me of that teenager that is about to do the wrong thing and no matter what you say to that teenager as a parent they do what they want to do. They don't listen. They think they have ALL the answers.
I always am amused when LWNs tell RWNs what they are about and you get upset when they do, but you have NO problem doing the same exact thing and then get upset again.
You don't see what you are doing. You don't even see your own hypocrisy.
-----signature-----
We have enough youth. What we need is a fountain of smart.
Drill Anwar!
Kapie
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Yukishiro1
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Subject:
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Fist_de_Yuma posted:
They have started to study how liberals and conservative perceive each other. The finding was not a shock to conservatives and generated outrage with liberals. It seems that conservatives are very good at perceiving the truth about liberals, or at least predicting the liberal response to an issue. Liberals on the other hand are almost always wrong about what conservatives think and feel about an issue. In other worse one side believes in facts and the other in stereotypes.
Ok, chief.
-----signature-----
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_Gimpzilla_
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Conservatives are all assholes. Lets try to have an honest debate about it without wallowing in the mud.
-----signature-----
Cause you're not quite evil enough. You're semi-evil, you're quasi-evil, you're the margarine of evil,
you're the diet coke of evil, just one calorie, not "evil" enough.
Destroying small towns near you...
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Sezyrrith
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Fist_de_Yuma posted:
I read this and this word sprang instantly to mind, "deranged". As a liberal you believe what you want to believe and no amount of facts will ever change that. Hang the White-Hispanic, no need to study the evidence. Perhaps I’m wrong but you could never prove it by the liberal posts.
You know what I see, when I read nearly every one of your posts?
Fisted Puma posted:
Anyone who disagrees with me is a liberal, and therefore a liar and scumbag.
You're not in it to debate. You start out in the mud, as stated above, with an insult. Then you get all excited when someone responds in kind.
-----signature-----
E- 80% K- 60% S- 40% A- 20% "That thing you burnt up isn't important to me. It's the fluid catalytic cracking unit. It made shoes for orphans. Nice job breaking it, hero." http://tinyurl.com/Sezy-1
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__Bonk__
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Why lie and slander people. Puma is right
-----signature-----
I keep my eyes fixed on the sun!
A change in feeling is a change in destiny.
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Fist_de_Yuma
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I’m not saying Tych2 is wrong. In fact he is 100% correct. I’m the conservative version of a liberal or at least use liberal tactics against them. All I did was explain how I gave up years ago and decided this was a lot more fun than trying to reason with unreasonable people. That is not an excuse, it is my reason for using liberal tactics. My hope was that seeing me use their tactics would make them wake up to what they were doing. Again, unreasoned hope on my part. After that it just became habit.
This study shows one of the reason liberals are the way they are. In their eyes conservatives really do hate the poor and love the rich. We understand their ignorance of the issues, and that down they really don’t think their policy’s cause misery and death. We just don’t understand why they stick to them after they have done nothing but cause misery and death. They are not evil people, but in the long run intent does not matter to the people they harm.
-----signature-----
There are three kind of liberals;
Stupid, ignorant or evil
The result is always evil but the intent is not always evil. Not that it makes much difference in the long run.
No one here is exactly as they seem. - G'Kar
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Sezyrrith
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Fist_de_Yuma posted:
I’m not saying Tych2 is wrong. In fact he is 100% correct. I’m the conservative version of a liberal or at least use liberal tactics against them. All I did was explain how I gave up years ago and decided this was a lot more fun than trying to reason with unreasonable people. That is not an excuse, it is my reason for using liberal tactics. My hope was that seeing me use their tactics would make them wake up to what they were doing. Again, unreasoned hope on my part. After that it just became habit.
This study shows one of the reason liberals are the way they are. In their eyes conservatives really do hate the poor and love the rich. We understand their ignorance of the issues, and that down they really don’t think their policy’s cause misery and death. We just don’t understand why they stick to them after they have done nothing but cause misery and death. They are not evil people, but in the long run intent does not matter to the people they harm.
The issue isn't only your tactics; it's also the fact that as soon as someone disagrees with one of your political viewpoints, you follow a simple chain of assumptions.
Disagrees, therefore liberal.
Liberal, therefore evil, stupid, or ignorant. (your own signature)
Both assumptions are generally baseless, especially the latter. If the 'liberals' you've argued with have ALL been one of the above, and/or have used the 'debate tactics' you listed a few posts earlier in this thread, then they're LWNs, just as corrupt as the RWNs. You take your issues with the most extreme and generalize it to every person you label as 'liberal'.
-----signature-----
E- 80% K- 60% S- 40% A- 20% "That thing you burnt up isn't important to me. It's the fluid catalytic cracking unit. It made shoes for orphans. Nice job breaking it, hero." http://tinyurl.com/Sezy-1
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SirGarth
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well, it's at least better than Fist's old "I'd kill all the liberals if I was king of the world" fantasy... 
-----signature-----
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Friarspam
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Liberlals act like a brainwashed cult. They're the political version of dogmatic religion.
-----signature-----
My folks went on vacation and all I got was this lousy sig.
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Ptilk
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Fist..you linked to an incredibly biased interpretation of an incredibly biased survey that was turned into a book.
The key things to note from the actual book:
"Conservatives" give value to traditions whereas liberals tend not to do so. Big freaking surprise there. Traditions are the bane of liberal thinking, as traditional values are used to justify things like slavery, misogyny, and child rape...just to name a few of the most horrible examples. Liberals tend to think that just because you have been doing something for a long time, that doesn't mean it's ok....conservatives tend to value tradition a lot more. No sane person would argue that fact.
"Conservatives" are better at guessing how liberals will feel about issues. Big freaking surprise there. "Conservatives" have no defining moral compass these days, they all supported everything in Obamacare..until Obama did, then they flip flopped and hated it all. Who the hell knows what you nut bags are going to be for next week...let alone next year. That's just one example, but they are endless. The only defining character of a "conservative" is that they will always support whatever some guy they respect tells them to support. That summation is completely supported in the following issue....
"Conservatives" tend to respect authority without question. Big freaking surprise there. If some guy on TV or the interweb says something, "conservatives" are all over it and lock step in their support. Authority means they have to be right, because they are...um....well....they gotta know more than me so hell yeah!!11!!
That "respect for authority" fully explains why no one anywhere can predict what "conservatives" are going to "think" next. You can't predict crazy with any hope of accuracy. Bigger government one year, no government the next, deficits don't matter one year, we are DOOOOOMED the next.....no one knows what crazy crap you people are going to come up with....even you don't know. Your political and "moral" ideologies have nothing to do with logic, everything to do with respecting authority and traditions..nothing to do with reality.
Thank you for posting a link to a study which explains in detail exactly how screwed up you people are. 
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Fist_de_Yuma
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Great example on how liberals can turn values into negatives.
I'll give you another example.
In conservative cities people are fairly well off. In Liberal cities people are living in squalor.
Liberals; sure, the poor live in liberal cities and the rich live in conservative cities.
They just have cannot see the flaws in their thinking.
Conservative schools have good students. Liberal schools have bad students.
Well sure; conservative schools only take good students and the liberal schools have what is left. That might be a good point, if there were any liberal schools that turned out good students before conservative schools existed.
-----signature-----
There are three kind of liberals;
Stupid, ignorant or evil
The result is always evil but the intent is not always evil. Not that it makes much difference in the long run.
No one here is exactly as they seem. - G'Kar
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Tych2
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Fist_de_Yuma posted:
In conservative cities people are fairly well off. In Liberal cities people are living in squalor.
Have you ever been to Boston? squalor??
Fist_de_Yuma posted:
Conservative schools have good students. Liberal schools have bad students.
You don't get more liberal than my town. My town's HS is in the top 1%.
Fist stop you aren't not making yourself out well here.
Your biggest problem is you paint with a wide brush and when you do that you are ALWAYS wrong.
-----signature-----
We have enough youth. What we need is a fountain of smart.
Drill Anwar!
Kapie
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Sezyrrith
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Tych2 posted:
Your biggest problem is you paint with a wide brush and when you do that you are ALWAYS wrong.
QFT.
-----signature-----
E- 80% K- 60% S- 40% A- 20% "That thing you burnt up isn't important to me. It's the fluid catalytic cracking unit. It made shoes for orphans. Nice job breaking it, hero." http://tinyurl.com/Sezy-1
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Kjarhall
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SirGarth posted:
Fist_de_Yuma posted:
I beg liberals to prove to me they can debate and issue without walling in the mud.
Really? This, AGAIN???
How many links should i post where Fist either starts the "walling in the mud" or flees the moment someone actually engages him?
Either he's delusional or has some memory loss issues.
BTW - as to the original article, your interpretation says alot about your bias and the degree of your delusions.
-----signature-----
You're a crazy moron*
*http://vnboards.ign.com/outpost/b22180/115147923/r115151508/
hah! true story tho i'm a woman an i even love boobs..how can you not??- HallowEve
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ZigmundZag
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Fist_de_Yuma posted:
I’m not saying Tych2 is wrong. In fact he is 100% correct. I’m the conservative version of a liberal or at least use liberal tactics against them. All I did was explain how I gave up years ago and decided this was a lot more fun than trying to reason with unreasonable people. That is not an excuse, it is my reason for using liberal tactics. My hope was that seeing me use their tactics would make them wake up to what they were doing. Again, unreasoned hope on my part. After that it just became habit.
So in other words some liberal trolled you so hard that you're still melting down?
Just out of curiousity, did that happen here or ACF? Whoever did this to you deserves a modship.
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YouMightSeeMe
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I'm pretty damn sure fist is to cool to post with those acf fags.
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ZigmundZag
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YouMightSeeMe posted:
I'm pretty damn sure fist is to cool to post with those acf fags.
Fist came from ACF. As did Aerlinthian and Brother_Tedious. You can just imagine what kind of a brain trust they must be running over there if those are their renegades.
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Eager_Igraine
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Kjarhall posted:
SirGarth posted:
Fist_de_Yuma posted:
I beg liberals to prove to me they can debate and issue without walling in the mud.
Really? This, AGAIN???
How many links should i post where Fist either starts the "walling in the mud" or flees the moment someone actually engages him?
Either he's delusional or has some memory loss issues.
BTW - as to the original article, your interpretation says alot about your bias and the degree of your delusions.
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Fist_de_Yuma
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ZigmundZag posted:
YouMightSeeMe posted:
I'm pretty damn sure fist is to cool to post with those acf fags.
Fist came from ACF. As did Aerlinthian and Brother_Tedious. You can just imagine what kind of a brain trust they must be running over there if those are their renegades.
I did come from ACF because I played AC. That was six years ago! Most of the Outposters were not here then. The petty things you try to make important.
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Kjarhall
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http://vnboards.ign.com/outpost/b22180/110647828/r110653639/
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*http://vnboards.ign.com/outpost/b22180/115147923/r115151508/
hah! true story tho i'm a woman an i even love boobs..how can you not??- HallowEve
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Coriolus
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holy shit..
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YouMightSeeMe
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Fist_de_Yuma posted:
ZigmundZag posted:
YouMightSeeMe posted:
I'm pretty damn sure fist is to cool to post with those acf fags.
Fist came from ACF. As did Aerlinthian and Brother_Tedious. You can just imagine what kind of a brain trust they must be running over there if those are their renegades.
I did come from ACF because I played AC. That was six years ago! Most of the Outposters were not here then. The petty things you try to make important.
Ah. I remember you being here for more then 6 years for some reason.
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