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Topic: Post-alinco woes...
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Billy-Mountain
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Post-alinco woes...
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This is part story/rant, part request for help, and a way to let Decal app developers see things through a non-programmer's point of view. I apologize for the length in advance =P
I use Alinco just for loot purposes, and those debuff icons. AC is all about the loot for me, so having a loot plugin is absolutely vital. With Alinco outdated, people are constantly telling me to use something new and less glitchy, and I hear of rares being missed, so I decided to take the plunge this morning. I'm starting to wish I hadn't.
Apparently, Mag Tools plus Virindi Classic looter are what everyone recommends. I already have the virindi bundle, so great, I'll just go and download the enhanced looter app that was recommended to me. I read horror stories about setting these things up, but I figure I'll persist and figure it out. I figured out how to link Alinco with VT, so this can't be much harder... boy, was I wrong, and here's where the problems started.
After installing, I notice that I don't see Mag-anything on my Decal list... and come to think of it, there's no Virindi classic looter either. Hmm, I know I downloaded that bundle. Oh, my install file was called "utank"... is that the same as "vtank"? Who knows? I hope I didn't get the wrong file. Time to check the forums.
So I eventually realize that the Mag enhanced looter was a Windows app, and I load it up with the sample profile. *wtf-face* That's alot of options, and most of them don't make any sense. How does one figure out what setting BunchOfWords to 98534 does versus setting WeirdMathSymbols to 12983? I just want to pick up aetheria... Back to the forums, I go.
Oh, the propertydump command, that looks useful! Now I can sit and figure out which properties correspond to which values. I get about four item types in, and man does this seem tedious... it will take hours, but at least I'm making progress. Then, I try to load up my new test loot profile in Vtank... uh oh. It's a "utl" file, and doesn't even show up in the dropdown list of loot profiles. I do see that trusty old Alinco profile still there laughing at my frustration, though... Back to the forums for answers.
And here's where I'm stuck. I saw a thread all about transitioning to a new loot system, which I thought would be a tutorial, but it's just a Q/A for creating loot specs... it will be useful one day, if I can ever get that far. I can't read "utl" files through Vtank, it just doesn't see them. Why is the program called "utank" and not "vtank"... did I get the wrong file? Do I have all the prereqs? I have no idea. A few forum posts tell the poster to have (acronym?) and (acronym?) installed, and I have nothing that starts with those letters on my Decal list.
Do I need mag enhanced, which is part of Mag Tools, which uses Virindi View, that's a part of Virindi Tank, and a part of Decal?!? ALL I WANT TO DO IS SAVE SOME LOOT CLICKS!!
The point is, I'm not an idiot, but these new(?) loot plugins sure make me feel like one. There are no guides or readmes that I can find, and while I see that the app creator Mag is willing to help answer questions, I wouldn't even know the right questions to ask. No disrespect to Mag, but it makes me really wish the Alinco writer didn't quit. When I think about all the hours I'll spend setting this stuff up, and multiply by minimum wage, maybe it would be worth my time to bribe him to come back to AC app development and give us a modern Alinco. I can live with the need to edit something outside of AC, and in some ways it's more convenient, but I'm no programmer and it seems you have to be one to figure this stuff out nowadays.
I understand the tradeoff of power and versatility for an intuitive UI, but our current options are so user-unfriendly that I'd rather miss out on the one in a million chance I'll get a rare drop anyways just for some peace of mind or less options.
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Hazridi
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Subject:
Post-alinco woes...
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It's not nearly as hard as you make it out to be.
I recently set up looting for the first time and I just used immortalbob's profile and altered it to fit my needs. I didn't need to do anything but add an entry Melee D cloaks, enable some rules that were disabled, lower the weapon settings a tad and add some basic salvage rules. There are examples on Virindi's wiki and there is an entire thread dedicated to using VTClassic on these boards.
P.S. Looting has nothing to do with VirindiViews, you can loot fine without VVS even installed. VTank doesn't care whether VVS is running or you are using normal Decal views. Why are you even messing with the VirindiTank dll? what does it matter what it is called?
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Hazridi of WE, VT, HG, SC Decal Core Dev - http://www.decaldev.com - Beta at http://www.decaldev.com/beta
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Billy-Mountain
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Subject:
Post-alinco woes...
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How did I guess it would take exactly one post for someone to say it's not hard...
I wasn't messing with a dll other than downloading and running the install file, but the fact that the filename had a "u" just made me wonder. Anyways, I think I can figure out how to take a profile and tweak it using those threads you mentioned, but the profile doesn't show up on the file list in Vtank.
I read quite a bit on this board today looking for answers, but when you have plugins that are part of plugins leading you in circles, it's hard to know which threads are useful and which aren't (example: I thought virindi views was somehow a part of this all) That was one of my points in the OP... that it's hard to find a guide for people who are switching over from Alinco and have all these new plugins they have to learn at once. And when you go to the individual plugin threads, they're so long that it's easy to miss critical information. If I could figure it all out, maybe I'll write the guide myself 
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immortalbob
Title: AC Vault Staff
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Subject:
Post-alinco woes...
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It's true that setting up the vt looter isn't exactly the easiest task, however it is leaps and bounds ahead of alinco in functionality. The good news is, I already created a very extensive profile which will require little setup to use.
Here's a quick step by step to use my profile.
Close AC (I know it's hard to do)
Download the enhanced looter provided so graciously by Magnus here: (You want the binaries)
http://magtools.codeplex.com/releases/view/78138
unzip into c:\games\virindiplugins\vtclassiclooter and overwrite the old files
Download my loot profile here
http://www.immortalbob.com/Loot/LootSnobV3.utl
(right click, save as)
drop into c:\games\virindiplugins\vtank
go back into the classic looter folder, open the utank settings editor
file open, select lootsnobv3
look through it, toggle on the rules you want on, and edit the settings to your personal preferences.
once you have it set the way you like click file, then save
load up AC, and you should see the profile in the drop down menu.
Quick notes:
Buffedmaxdamage on weapons is max damage+2 for bd8 so a 68 damage axe with bd8 would be 70 in the profile. It will also take into account blood thirst cantrips to meet the requirement listed, so a 66 damage axe with bd8 and minor bt would still equal 70 and be looted.
buffedarmorlevel on armor takes into account impen cantrips, so if i have a min buffed armor level of 240 it will pick up anything with base 240 armor, or 220 with minor impen, or 200 with major impen, or 180 with epic impen
let me know if you have any questions.
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ImmortalBob, Axer Extraordinaire
+Turbine Sappho tells you, "I am starting to think you are immortal"
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Virindi-Inquisitor
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Subject:
Post-alinco woes...
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In order to get a new .utl profile to show up in vtank, you must relog or just click the dropdown and select one of the things that is already there (eg. [none]). That will refresh the contents of the dropdown box.
Your .utl files should be placed in the VirindiTank directory (probably c:\games\virindiplugins\virinditank). When you hit save in the editor, it defaults to that directory.
Also, check out the info here:
http://www.virindi.net/wiki/index.php/Virindi_Tank_Classic_Loot_System
-----signature-----
Virindi --- ****Virindi Plugins FAQ**** http://www.virindi.net/wiki/index.php/Virindi_Plugins_FAQ http://www.virindi.net - Virindi Tank, Follower, Integrator, Reporter, VCS5, XPHelper, Item Tool, HUDs, etc... Decal Core Dev - http://www.decaldev.com
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Billy-Mountain
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Subject:
Post-alinco woes...
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Thank you for the replies. It seems I had the .utl file in a folder inside my Magtools folder, as I thought that this was all part of Magtools when I first set it up. I think I've got enough information between propertydump and immortalbob's file to get rolling on a custom loot profile.
If I may make a suggestion to Virindi for the wiki page, maybe you can mention the fact that Classic Looter is an outside-of-AC plugin near the top of the page? Maybe I'm the only moron to make this mistake, but I didn't even know that until today. I've been using Vtank and really thought "classic looter" was just a part of the bundle, that one little part of the tab that let me import my Alinco profile (I've recently returned to AC, so I wasn't up to date on the plugins). I know it says it a little way down on the tutorial page, but at least in my case, I didn't bother going too far into a tutorial page when I didn't even know what the app was yet
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-Absolution-
Title: Gimpalicious
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Subject:
Post-alinco woes...
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I see both sides to this. I am using classic looter with the enhancements from Mag-nus and also a tweaked version of Immortalbob's profile. I also use alinco still for some landscape spawns, inventory control, one touch heal, etc..
So thanks to Mag-nus, Immortalbob, and Virindi Inquisitor for the effort.
I agree that classic looter is more functional, but it is not for everyone and it does not have the UI that Alinco has for players who play the game primarily at the keys (this is not a knock to anyone's playing style..just my opinion).
Alinco is very easy to use and appeals to a much larger part of the playerbase than we see here on the utilities forum.
In a perfect world we would have both options and all the tweaks and profiles in-between.
Kimseth (TY Kimseth)is attempting to repair the now broken aspects of Alinco. I hope he succeeds so we can all use the tools we are most confortable with.
Alinco still has it's place in AC and even though it is not as detailed with loot profiles, I would welcome a fully functional version back soon.
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Vain_we
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Subject:
Post-alinco woes...
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This biggest thing I liked about Alinco for looting was that it is icon driven (Mostly) and you did not have to alt-tab or by any other means leave the game to edit your looting.
That said, its not nearly as powerful as Vtank looting and causes all sorts of memory fits for my machines. I would just like to a "VVSlooter" one day 
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immortalbob
Title: AC Vault Staff
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Subject:
Post-alinco woes...
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Vain_we posted:
This biggest thing I liked about Alinco for looting was that it is icon driven (Mostly) and you did not have to alt-tab or by any other means leave the game to edit your looting.
That said, its not nearly as powerful as Vtank looting and causes all sorts of memory fits for my machines. I would just like to a "VVSlooter" one day
it's because of the memory issues that i no longer use non-vvs plugins, and disable view rendering in decal.
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ImmortalBob, Axer Extraordinaire
+Turbine Sappho tells you, "I am starting to think you are immortal"
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Sucamarto
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Subject:
Post-alinco woes...
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immortalbob posted:
[blockquote]it's because of the memory issues that i no longer use non-vvs plugins, and disable view rendering in decal.
What exactly does View Rendering do in Decal?
To add exactly what do the following do?
- Multiple Views
- Adjust bar for Radar
- Use Alternate Injection Method
- Disable View Rendering
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Sucamarto's AC Heaven - http://acheaven.buwahaha.com Sucamarto - (275) Bunny Master Panumbriis Shadow - (275) - Sword,Cook,Alch,Tinker Allegiance - Tasia the True "May the seed of your loin be fruitfull in the belly of your woman" Neil
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immortalbob
Title: AC Vault Staff
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Subject:
Post-alinco woes...
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It removes the old brown decal bar entirely
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ImmortalBob, Axer Extraordinaire
+Turbine Sappho tells you, "I am starting to think you are immortal"
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Hazridi
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Subject:
Post-alinco woes...
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Multiple views -- back in the day, you could only have one decal view active at a time. I guess because some users liked it that way, we made it a toggle setting and never removed it.
Adjust view radar is a poorly described feature that was used to prevent the decal bar from drawing under the radar. Ever since ToD changed the graphics engine, Decal has been able to draw on top of any part of the AC game ui -- it used to only be capable of drawing on top of the 3d view.
Alternate injection method is just a different way to get Decal to load into AC.
Disable view rendering completely stops the view rendering system from even trying to render views. If you have any plugins with views, they will still run but their views still not show up at all.
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Hazridi of WE, VT, HG, SC Decal Core Dev - http://www.decaldev.com - Beta at http://www.decaldev.com/beta
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Billy-Mountain
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Subject:
Post-alinco woes...
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So I'm now on Day 2 of trying to replace Alinco, and run into a few snags. First, I love your LootSnob profile, immortalbob, now that I understand it. Thank you for this useful resource and the helpful titles, too. I thought it was completely broken at first because I was enabling the "categories" that say ****Weapon**** and such and it was picking up everything, but I eventually figured it out =P
I'm still left with questions on my quest to fully replace Alinco, though...
- When I just want a loot searcher (and not buffing, macro, or any other feature) I still have to turn on VirindiTank but uncheck all the boxes for pathing, macro, combat, buffs, idle mode, etc to not have those features interfere with my gameplay. VT also generates quite a bit of lag while doing this even though all features except looting are unchecked. Is there a better way to do this, or is this how everyone uses the plugin when they only want the looting features?
- When I'm looting a corpse, it opens it, searches, grabs, and closes so quickly that I often miss what happened. This is a great testament to its speed, but I miss the way Alinco had a chat line for each item that popped up and was picked up by the search so I can see what I just picked up. It's also nice to have that loot line to link to trade channels. Is this an option I can turn on somewhere?
- With this search/loot/close speed, I'm afraid to open something like a casino chest that may get closed immediately before I have a chance to look through the "sub-standard" loot and it relocks. Or, I may kill a quest boss and the plugin opens the corpse, loots, and closes before I have a chance to pick up any quest items that aren't on my trophy list. Is there an option to leave the last-opened corpse/chest open until closed manually?
- Alinco has this transparent UI window that shows names of items that match the search parameters, and also all corpses not yet opened. This feature is most useful to me for the corpse aspect, especially, but I can't find any aspect of VT or related plugins that do this. Can this Alinco feature be duplicated with the plugins in this bundle?
I know all these questions may relate to several different plugins, but they are all part of my goal of replacing Alinco with only modern, up-to-date apps. Thank you for all your help so far... maybe when it's all done I'll really write a "replacing Alinco for dummies" guide
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immortalbob
Title: AC Vault Staff
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Subject:
Post-alinco woes...
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Check out mag tools it will do most of that. Also when searching for unopened corpses I mapped one of my mouse keys to select next unopened corpse in the ac keyboard config.
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ImmortalBob, Axer Extraordinaire
+Turbine Sappho tells you, "I am starting to think you are immortal"
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ChuckMgutsup
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Subject:
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Billy-Mountain posted:
- With this search/loot/close speed, I'm afraid to open something like a casino chest that may get closed immediately before I have a chance to look through the "sub-standard" loot and it relocks. Or, I may kill a quest boss and the plugin opens the corpse, loots, and closes before I have a chance to pick up any quest items that aren't on my trophy list. Is there an option to leave the last-opened corpse/chest open until closed manually?
When using chests I turn the macro off .. I've set the "break/pause" key as my on/off switch ... press that key once and then loot chests or manually loot a corpse that has something you like that didnt get picked up (I do this for colo mini bosses, or I see a cloak that I want to check out on a corpse) ... having said that I've never seen it close a chest while I have it open .. but turning it off for peace of mind would work for you :-)
You'll be an expert on looting soon and be teaching us how to use it I'm sure mate ... hang in there :-)
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immortalbob
Title: AC Vault Staff
I am batman!
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Subject:
Post-alinco woes...
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Billy, you can easily add trophies to the loot profile, clone any other trophy rule and change the parameters to match
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ImmortalBob, Axer Extraordinaire
+Turbine Sappho tells you, "I am starting to think you are immortal"
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Virindi-Inquisitor
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Subject:
Post-alinco woes...
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Billy-Mountain posted:
- When I just want a loot searcher (and not buffing, macro, or any other feature) I still have to turn on VirindiTank but uncheck all the boxes for pathing, macro, combat, buffs, idle mode, etc to not have those features interfere with my gameplay. VT also generates quite a bit of lag while doing this even though all features except looting are unchecked.
Remove the [all peas] entry from your consumables tab in vtank. This 'lag' is a known bug.
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Virindi --- ****Virindi Plugins FAQ**** http://www.virindi.net/wiki/index.php/Virindi_Plugins_FAQ http://www.virindi.net - Virindi Tank, Follower, Integrator, Reporter, VCS5, XPHelper, Item Tool, HUDs, etc... Decal Core Dev - http://www.decaldev.com
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Druxus2012
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Subject:
Post-alinco woes...
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I am looking to make it so Looter will pick up the pyreals on the corpses. I have attempted to write a rule for this... Any ideas?
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immortalbob
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Subject:
Post-alinco woes...
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objectclass=money
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ImmortalBob, Axer Extraordinaire
+Turbine Sappho tells you, "I am starting to think you are immortal"
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