Yukishiro1
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Cultural differences in the prices of various goods
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Here are two examples from my life.
Example 1: Chicken breasts are cheaper than thighs in Japan, because Japansee people care more about flavor. In America, breasts are more expensive than thighs because of the color and the lower fat content.
Example 2: In Japan, ground pepper is normally white, not black. Black ground pepper is expensive and fancy. In America, black pepper is normal, and white pepper is expensive and fancy. I have no idea why.
Anyone have any others? I love this sort of stuff.
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Tych2
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Polenta and Grits. One is $20 in NYC the other is $2 in Mississippi.
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Cawlin
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Here are two examples from my life.
Example 1: Chicken breasts are cheaper than thighs in Japan, because Japansee people care more about flavor. In America, breasts are more expensive than thighs because of the color and the lower fat content.
Do you really think it's the health consciousness or do you think that Americans are more "coddled" with respect to their food and just want something that they don't have to skin and debone? Anyway...
I don't have anything to add because I don't really know too much about differences in costs for day to day life in other countries - never having been more than a visiting traveler to any besides the US.
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Yukishiro1
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Breasts cost more than thighs whether they're deboned and skinned or not. At least here in SF. Japan being the opposite.
I was just speculating about the reason. The only things I can think of are the color and the lower fat content. Because thighs are just better flavorwise.
It would be interesting to see how things were 50-60 years ago and if breasts were still more expensive in America then too.
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Tych2
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I love thighs over breasts if I can get them. The butcher I go to has them now de-boned which makes cooking easier but not as tasty. Certain things you need breasts for. Chicken parm for example. I just made some this weekend and man was it good!
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Cawlin
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Breasts cost more than thighs whether they're deboned and skinned or not. At least here in SF. Japan being the opposite.
I was just speculating about the reason. The only things I can think of are the color and the lower fat content. Because thighs are just better flavorwise.
It would be interesting to see how things were 50-60 years ago and if breasts were still more expensive in America then too.
I agree that they're more costly regardless, and also that they are less flavorful... but per unit mass, they've got more meat to bone/gristle too...
Incidentally, you don't need chicken breast for any chicken dish really - you can bone out a chicken thigh and pound it flat for breading too...
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Yukishiro1
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I like breasts for breading just because of the lower fat content. If you're dredging something in flour and frying it you may as well use something that isn't too fatty to begin with.
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Cawlin
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Yukishiro1 posted:
I like breasts for breading just because of the lower fat content. If you're dredging something in flour and frying it you may as well use something that isn't too fatty to begin with.
If you fry properly you don't add a lot of fat to things - it's all about temperature control - most people lack the knowledge of how to achieve this with conventional household kitchen equipment. That said, though, you do have a point with respect to flavor - no sense breading up a juicy delicious thigh and covering the flavor of it with bread crumbs and stuff - might as well just use a breast because at that point it's about texture of the meat being breaded.
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Yukishiro1
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It depends how much breading and what sort. The fat from deep frying comes from the breading. If you use fine breading you won't add too much fat. If you use breading with lots of texture for the oil to seep into you'll add a lot of fat.
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Sin_of_Onin
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I tend to cut breasts in half and fry them in olive oil. A lot of Italian dishes involve that simple process. Chicken Parm the most obvious example. I would never do that with thighs.
Breasts are better suited for certain dishes so it may not be as simple as the idea that one is more tasty than the other. Demand could be pushed by what people like to cook. Sandwiches are also usually breast meat.
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Cawlin
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Yukishiro1 posted:
It depends how much breading and what sort. The fat from deep frying comes from the breading. If you use fine breading you won't add too much fat. If you use breading with lots of texture for the oil to seep into you'll add a lot of fat.
No, that's not true bud.
The way it works is about the fact that water and oil generally don't mix.
See, the oil has to be hot enough that the moisture in the food boils out of it in the form of steam. As long as the food is bubbling and steaming out water, very little oil is going to soak into the breading or the food beneath it. Typically what happens though, especially when people deep fry - is that they let the oil get too cool - either by adding too much food to it or by not having it hot enough to begin with or by using a pan/pot without enough mass to keep the contents hot.
When the oil gets too cool, it doesn't convert the water in the food into steam, and with no steam bubbling out of the food, the oil can then soak in...
As for "pan frying" (i.e. not deep frying) things such as saute cooking or the like - you want JUST enough oil to keep stuff from sticking and it won't matter how much or what kind of breading you use - excess oil will soak into bread crumbs if there isn't water steaming out of them to keep it from doing so...
People get all silly about using oil in their food and whatnot.
If I pan fry enough chicken for 3 people and I use a tablespoon of oil to do it, I will a) have a half a tablespoon of oil left in the pan when I'm done and b) each person will have a half a teaspoon of oil (~2.5 mL) in their portion of food.
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Hammerhand21
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Cawlin posted:
Yukishiro1 posted:
It depends how much breading and what sort. The fat from deep frying comes from the breading. If you use fine breading you won't add too much fat. If you use breading with lots of texture for the oil to seep into you'll add a lot of fat.
No, that's not true bud.
The way it works is about the fact that water and oil generally don't mix.
See, the oil has to be hot enough that the moisture in the food boils out of it in the form of steam. As long as the food is bubbling and steaming out water, very little oil is going to soak into the breading or the food beneath it. Typically what happens though, especially when people deep fry - is that they let the oil get too cool - either by adding too much food to it or by not having it hot enough to begin with or by using a pan/pot without enough mass to keep the contents hot.
As for "pan frying" (i.e. not deep frying) things such as saute cooking or the like - you want JUST enough oil to keep stuff from sticking and it won't matter how much or what kind of breading you use - excess oil will soak into bread crumbs if there isn't water steaming out of them to keep it from doing so...
Was going to type this, got bored so I quoted it instead.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Tych2 posted:
I love thighs over breasts if I can get them.
I have never really been a boob man, myself...
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Yukishiro1
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Hmm. Interesting. I know about water and deep frying in general but I didn't realize water from the meat is enough to keep the oil from soaking into the breading too. Even when you use breading and not batter?
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Cawlin
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Hmm. Interesting. I know about water and deep frying in general but I didn't realize water from the meat is enough to keep the oil from soaking into the breading too. Even when you use breading and not batter?
Yep... when you drop battered food into a deep fryer, the water in the batter is also boiling out of it, helping to keep oil from soaking in along with the moisture from the food beneath the batter.
Seriously, I'm not trying to just sound like a fat outposter lol, but deep fried food isn't TERRIBLE for you if you fry it correctly. Of course, like everything, I wouldn't eat it every day either, but just saying... It's poor/sloppy/lazy/irresponsible preparation that really makes it bad for you typically.
Also too, you should let fried foods drain somewhat if you're really fat conscious. Fried foods are perfectly reasonable to have, in moderation, as occasional fare.
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Yukishiro1
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I meant the opposite. I have had more luck with batter than with breading in terms of grease. Probably for the reasons you described. I always fry in hot oil but even so the breading seems to soak up a lot of oil. Maybe it's just my imagination. Or maybe I need to moisten the breading more or something?
P.S. I have nothing against fried food in general. Although I usually don't bother at home just because of the bother with dealing with the oil afterwards.
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Cawlin
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Yukishiro1 posted:
I meant the opposite. I have had more luck with batter than with breading in terms of grease. Probably for the reasons you described. I always fry in hot oil but even so the breading seems to soak up a lot of oil. Maybe it's just my imagination. Or maybe I need to moisten the breading more or something?
Do you deep fry with breading or are you talking about pan frying/saute cooking?
I suggest using less oil if you're pan frying/sauteeing. You really don't need a lot of it to accomplish what you want. If you're deep frying - it may be an issue of temperature - if you're deep frying frozen food, you will have to do it in smaller batches unless you have a massive fryer to make sure temperature doesn't drop too much. Also it should go without saying that once the food stops bubbling in the oil, it has stopped steaming enuogh to keep oil from soaking in and you need to remove it and let it drain... if it's not done cooking through by that point, you need to change the size of the pieces of food you're cooking or par boil them first or something...
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Yukishiro1
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Deep fry. Like making tonkatsu or something like that using panko. The panko always seems like it's soaking up oil.
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Cawlin
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Deep fry. Like making tonkatsu or something like that using panko. The panko always seems like it's soaking up oil.
Maybe you're not letting the food drain on a rack after cooking it and before eating it or you're cooking it too long?
I freaking love panko breaded stuff for the exquisite light, crispy, crunch of it and have not experienced it being overly "oily" tasting or feeling that I couldn't attribute the issue to either not having the oil hot enough or not letting the food drain after. Wire rack draining is usually preferable to draining directly on paper towels or something...
I am not directly familiar with the dish you mentioned so maybe there's something I am overlooking there but... yeah... panko should fry up beautifully.
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Cawlin
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http://justonecookbook.com/blog/how-to/how-to-deep-fry-food/
Here's a link to deep frying with panko - doesn't seem to be any sort of trick beyond the basics of all deep frying...
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Yukishiro1
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It may be an overcooking issue. Tonkatsu is made with pork and as you probably know pork is like the only meat you really need to worry about getting cooked well enough.
I dunno how they do it in restaurants.
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DemonicXH
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Alton Brown did a Good Eats episode on deep frying. It was quite enlightening.
I didn't know about the steam thing either until I saw it. Made my most recent batch of onion rings much better.
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Cawlin
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Yukishiro1 posted:
It may be an overcooking issue. Tonkatsu is made with pork and as you probably know pork is like the only meat you really need to worry about getting cooked well enough.
I dunno how they do it in restaurants.
Hmm... yeah, I can't offer any advice beyond what I've stated here. You don't need to overcook pork to death either - maybe try thinner slices if you're having trouble getting it cooked through... good luck man... you're talking about a cuisine a little outside of my experience there...
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ineenia
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Yerba Mate, any US store that sell mainly to Us customers you'll pay about $7 a pound,in stores that cater to Mexican and South American people(fiesta ect) it cost about $3-4 for 5 pound bags.
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Yukishiro1
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Yeah slicing thinner is probably a good idea. Places in Japan sometimes do pretty thick slices (like 3/4 an inch) but when I've done that at home it's come out kinda oily.
Maybe next time I will try thinner.
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Cawlin
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Yukishiro1 posted:
Yeah slicing thinner is probably a good idea. Places in Japan sometimes do pretty thick slices (like 3/4 an inch) but when I've done that at home it's come out kinda oily.
Maybe next time I will try thinner.
There might be something to the oil too. I understand that peanut oil has a slightly higher smoke point than other oils so maybe they can cook in it hotter?
I use basically two oils in my kitchen - olive oil and vegetable oil, and I deep fry (veg. oil) about twice a quarter, max, sauteeing (olive oil) probably once a week in no more than a tablespoon of oil for a 14" frying pan.
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really the cultural difference is in the demand not the price
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