Author Topic: How long down the road, if ever, do you forsee the political climate improve?
Moe_Nox 
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Subject: How long down the road, if ever, do you forsee the political climate improve?
I don't care what yesterday looks like. I don't give a piss in the wind what our founding fathers did, believed, or enacted.
I am asking you, now and currently, do you think that our political climate in this country will improve in someway, anyway, in the foreseeable future?

 

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SoBaKi 
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Subject: How long down the road, if ever, do you forsee the political climate improve?
Moe_Nox posted:
I don't care what yesterday looks like. I don't give a piss in the wind what our founding fathers did, believed, or enacted.
I am asking you, now and currently, do you think that our political climate in this country will improve in someway, anyway, in the foreseeable future?


There are two things we need...

1. Adults
2. The art of negotiation

We currently don't have either. Until we can reduce spending AND increase revenue to pay down the current debt, we're not going to accomplish anything.

 

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Elocism 
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Subject: How long down the road, if ever, do you forsee the political climate improve?
yes

the generation that are kids right now are growing up with basically unlimited access to information. it is what they are used to

once they get older and become politically minded, i see great things coming out of that

 

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Tych2 
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Subject: How long down the road, if ever, do you forsee the political climate improve?
I hope so soon. The political climate now turns sane people away from politics.

 

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IMHO 
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Subject: How long down the road, if ever, do you forsee the political climate improve?
No, not unless we get big business out of government.

 

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Moe_Nox 
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Subject: How long down the road, if ever, do you forsee the political climate improve?
Agreed Sobaki. Do you think we can get one first than the other, meaning increased revenue and/or decreased spending, or do they both have to happen at once?
Repubs seems to think one first, Dems seem to think both at same time. I think this is where your #1 and 2 come in.

Also do you think a 3rd party would help or hurt the current situation/balance?

 

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Abaddon_Ambrosius 
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Subject: How long down the road, if ever, do you forsee the political climate improve?
IMHO posted:
Never. Not unless we get big business out of government.


Probably this.

We need a republic... and we need the stakeholders to be its individual citizen voters. Not corporations. Not crony special interest groups given unlimited speech via unlimited MSM ad and programming spends.

 

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Bjorvald 
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Subject: How long down the road, if ever, do you forsee the political climate improve?
Moe_Nox posted:
I don't care what yesterday looks like. I don't give a piss in the wind what our founding fathers did, believed, or enacted.
I am asking you, now and currently, do you think that our political climate in this country will improve in someway, anyway, in the foreseeable future?


Nope. If anything it will get worse as the parties double down on their stupid.

 

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SoBaKi 
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Subject: How long down the road, if ever, do you forsee the political climate improve?
Elocism posted:
yes

the generation that are kids right now are growing up with basically unlimited access to information. it is what they are used to

once they get older and become politically minded, i see great things coming out of that


Yeah, because the necessary level of information was never available before. The difference is that in the old days, information was presented in a way that required actual understanding of the subject. Nowadays, they get 128 characters worth of information and believe themselves to be informed.

 

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SoBaKi 
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Subject: How long down the road, if ever, do you forsee the political climate improve?
Moe_Nox posted:
Agreed Sobaki. Do you think we can get one first than the other, meaning increased revenue and/or decreased spending, or do they both have to happen at once?
Repubs seems to think one first, Dems seem to think both at same time. I think this is where your #1 and 2 come in.

Also do you think a 3rd party would help or hurt the current situation/balance?


The issue is that there are too many cooks in the kitchen which is resulting in nothing getting done. We do not have time to listen to each and every legislator's opinion about cuts or increases.

I would suggest we implement a simple 10% across the board cut in spending and let the bush/obama tax cuts expire for this year. Decrease spending another 10% next year and the year after that. Obviously, over those years we should also be paying down the debt with the increased revenue that is being collected.

We currently have too many folks in political office who are more interested in hearing their own voice than actually doing something.

 

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Scarne 
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Subject: How long down the road, if ever, do you forsee the political climate improve?
Only once non-moderates stop calling themselves moderates. grin

 

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Abaddon_Ambrosius 
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Subject: How long down the road, if ever, do you forsee the political climate improve?
SoBaKi posted:
I would suggest we implement a simple 10% across the board cut in spending and let the bush/obama tax cuts expire for this year. Decrease spending another 10% next year and the year after that. Obviously, over those years we should also be paying down the debt with the increased revenue that is being collected.


Motherf*ka even I'm not that aggressive a deficit / debt reduction hawk.

Hats off to you, man, but even I think that's a bit too fast on the throttle.

 

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Moe_Nox 
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Subject: How long down the road, if ever, do you forsee the political climate improve?
Sobaki you are running dangerously close to sounding logical and moderate. You have been warned.

Lemme get your take on the state worker unions, police, teachers, etc that have contracts allowing yearly wage increases.
I agree with the across the board cuts.
Would you support following thru with this when it effects the unions and stirs them to arglebargle?
This is what causes most of the politicos to shy away from the cuts, danger of election year heat from the unions and such.

 

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Derasio 
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Subject: How long down the road, if ever, do you forsee the political climate improve?
Too much money in politics, as long as it costs shameful amounts of money to be elected nothing will change.

 

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Mastara 
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Subject: How long down the road, if ever, do you forsee the political climate improve?
There are no sane people in politics

 

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paulg_68 
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Subject: How long down the road, if ever, do you forsee the political climate improve?
Moe_Nox posted:
in the foreseeable future?

We're so far away from it right now it is not foreseeable.

coffee

 

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Cawlin 
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Subject: How long down the road, if ever, do you forsee the political climate improve?
Moe_Nox posted:
Sobaki you are running dangerously close to sounding logical and moderate. You have been warned.

Lemme get your take on the state worker unions, police, teachers, etc that have contracts allowing yearly wage increases.
I agree with the across the board cuts.
Would you support following thru with this when it effects the unions and stirs them to arglebargle?
This is what causes most of the politicos to shy away from the cuts, danger of election year heat from the unions and such.


To sobaki's plan, and with your question in mind, I wonder how much cutting we can find from wasteful government contractors, and similar abuses vs. cutting civil servants...

now obviously the devil is in the details there and one man's waste is another man's necessity, but, the bottom line is that we know there is huge waste in our spending that IS NOT necessarily tied to salaries or benefits for civil servants...

 

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IMHO 
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Subject: How long down the road, if ever, do you forsee the political climate improve?
Moe_Nox posted:
Sobaki you are running dangerously close to sounding logical and moderate. You have been warned.


Sobaki has always been logical and moderate. Just the haters calling him anything different.

 

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Derasio 
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Subject: How long down the road, if ever, do you forsee the political climate improve?
Also you need to wake the hell up regarding military funding, if you cut what you spend by half it would still be 3 times as much as the next biggest spender (china) and still be as much as the next 5 biggest spenders combined (China/UK/Russia/France/Japan).

 

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SoBaKi 
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Subject: How long down the road, if ever, do you forsee the political climate improve?
Moe_Nox posted:
Sobaki you are running dangerously close to sounding logical and moderate. You have been warned.


grin

Moe_Nox posted:
Lemme get your take on the state worker unions, police, teachers, etc that have contracts allowing yearly wage increases.
I agree with the across the board cuts.
Would you support following thru with this when it effects the unions and stirs them to arglebargle?
This is what causes most of the politicos to shy away from the cuts, danger of election year heat from the unions and such.


It's an interesting dilemma.

I work with Federal Government employees on a daily basis. I can assure you that I see very little motivation for them to do a good job when they don't have to worry about losing their job. That's not to say there aren't any worthwhile fed/state/local employees but I do believe it is too difficult for them to enact change on an individual level. The result is a climate of thrid rate support with ever increasing costs. If a company could never survive with this sort of business model, why would/should we expect the Government to be able to survive? I know the Government isn't a company, but there are some industry/corporate policies and procedures that can surely be used to provide for better service with lower costs.

Another example is bad tenured teachers that give the rest of the teachers a bad name. But because a teacher would like to achieve tenure, working against one's own interest doesn't inspire much motivation either. However, if you're doing a good job, why should you be worried about losgin your job? Sometimes, cost cutting includes cutting staff. No one, not even teachers, should be untouchable when we have to strive to cut some costs. Hopefully, the teachers that are cut are second and third rate. Same goes for police.

All contracts (union/government) should have appropriate verbiage that allows price adjustments to take place. The last few years are perfect examples why holding to certain numbers during "good" times doesn't work during "bad" times. EVERYONE should understand that sacrifices need to be made. Everyone. Just so I'm a little more clear on adjusting price, if the price is adjusted down, as is expected during bad times, there should also be a corresponding decrease in requirements.



 

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reesescups 
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Subject: How long down the road, if ever, do you forsee the political climate improve?
Derasio posted:
Also you need to wake the hell up regarding military funding, if you cut what you spend by half it would still be 3 times as much as the next biggest spender (china) and still be as much as the next 5 biggest spenders combined (China/UK/Russia/France/Japan).
I'm usually one that would throw this out there.


But lets be realistic. As a % of our GDP we are below all those other nations. Meaning as a % of our GDP we spend less on our Military than all those other nations spend in relation to their GDP. I think we are hovering around 3-5% of our GDP. China is something like 10% of their GDP.

Our economy is just freaking huge, and our economy (for better or worse) depends on our military...






No Moe I don't see it improving (political climate) any where in the foreseeable future.

 

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Derasio 
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Subject: How long down the road, if ever, do you forsee the political climate improve?
reesescups posted:
Derasio posted:
Also you need to wake the hell up regarding military funding, if you cut what you spend by half it would still be 3 times as much as the next biggest spender (china) and still be as much as the next 5 biggest spenders combined (China/UK/Russia/France/Japan).
I'm usually one that would throw this out there.


But lets be realistic. As a % of our GDP we are below all those other nations. Meaning as a % of our GDP we spend less on our Military than all those other nations spend in relation to their GDP. I think we are hovering around 3-5% of our GDP. China is something like 10% of their GDP.

Our economy is just freaking huge, and our economy (for better or worse) depends on our military...






No Moe I don't see it improving (political climate) any where in the foreseeable future.


Nope, your the highest by GDP as well, most of the countries in the top 5 are around 2.5% your around 5%

 

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SoBaKi 
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Subject: How long down the road, if ever, do you forsee the political climate improve?
reesescups posted:
No Moe I don't see it improving (political climate) any where in the foreseeable future.


The only way we can make it better is to literally vote every current politician out of office.

I suspect there would be tremendous across the political spectrum support by the citizenry to do this if a single, objective organization could provide the right message. And no, I don't mean some out of touch third party.

 

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Sin_of_Onin 
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Subject: How long down the road, if ever, do you forsee the political climate improve?
I think it will improve once we reform campaign finance.

 

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Akza 
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Subject: How long down the road, if ever, do you forsee the political climate improve?
SoBaKi posted:
Moe_Nox posted:
Agreed Sobaki. Do you think we can get one first than the other, meaning increased revenue and/or decreased spending, or do they both have to happen at once?
Repubs seems to think one first, Dems seem to think both at same time. I think this is where your #1 and 2 come in.

Also do you think a 3rd party would help or hurt the current situation/balance?


The issue is that there are too many cooks in the kitchen which is resulting in nothing getting done. We do not have time to listen to each and every legislator's opinion about cuts or increases.

I would suggest we implement a simple 10% across the board cut in spending and let the bush/obama tax cuts expire for this year. Decrease spending another 10% next year and the year after that. Obviously, over those years we should also be paying down the debt with the increased revenue that is being collected.

We currently have too many folks in political office who are more interested in hearing their own voice than actually doing something.


way too drastic. i agree with letting tax cuts expire. i do think agencies like dept of defense and homeland security as well as TSA need to be scaled way back to a much more precise scope. But cutting 10% kills productivity with scare tactics and ruins local economies when labs and agencies start laying off. you'll throw tons of pressure on the local real estate markets with people being dropped left and right.

there is quite a bit of fat to trim. i know; i've worked at a DOE lab and there were tons of people that worked for 30 yrs that played online chess all day long etc. The truth of the matter is when push comes to shove, those guys tend to stay while the new, bright talent gets laid off and the upper management will not relent on their pay even a little bit.

But when all the projects that are in full swing start worrying about next fiscal year all the time, the project itself gets delayed as people spend more energy worrying about finding another job than getting work done. timelines get extended and projects end up costing more in the long run as their funding drops per annum.

i do have a somewhat libertarian view that we should reduce exposure to other countries. all those servicemen are revitalizing foreign economies with their local spending in germany, japan, etc. i also think that we should play hardball with our import tariffs. dont touch commodities but everything else needs to get bumped up big time. china gets our money from products and then gets money from interest by buying our debt. lose-lose for us in the long run.

 

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Subject: How long down the road, if ever, do you forsee the political climate improve?
IMHO posted:
Moe_Nox posted:
Sobaki you are running dangerously close to sounding logical and moderate. You have been warned.


Sobaki has always been logical and moderate. Just the haters calling him anything different.



I think the Right will never understand that many moderates and leftist would hammer the budget IF they saw it applied equally or if they saw the military getting deep cuts. Sadly the right runs on fear of the world so that will never happen.

 

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Subject: How long down the road, if ever, do you forsee the political climate improve?
Until liberals can no longer use it as an issue to get what they want. There is a 100% chance that if science proves liberal policies are making it worse this issue will disappear in a heartbeat. Of course that will only be after 10 of years of attacks by the anti-science liberals who only believe what they are told to believe. While I have met some very hard core religious (wife being one), there is no one more slow to change or more violent to react in a debate than a liberal.

Tell my wife that Noah got drunk of the wine he made will see her react with denial. Wine is bad and that is that. Christ made grape juice that there is no use saying different.

I get the same reaction from the liberals when I point out the flawed science they use and point them to real science. They know what they know and you are (fill in whatever the current name calling rant you feel like) for even thinking different. Man needs reduce his demands on the planet or we are doomed, and that is that. (Not them of course, they are the chosen ones.)

 

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reesescups 
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Subject: How long down the road, if ever, do you forsee the political climate improve?
SoBaKi posted:
reesescups posted:
No Moe I don't see it improving (political climate) any where in the foreseeable future.


The only way we can make it better is to literally vote every current politician out of office.

I suspect there would be tremendous across the political spectrum support by the citizenry to do this if a single, objective organization could provide the right message. And no, I don't mean some out of touch third party.
How do 'we' go about creating a truly non partisan, non biased source for political news that touches on local, state, regional and national issues as well as foreign policy?

We got the internet, there is honestly a fair amount of transparent sources of information...

politicalportal.com of sorts (is that domain taken? crap it's parked, someone wants 2.5k)

 

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Subject: How long down the road, if ever, do you forsee the political climate improve?
Derasio posted:
Nope, your the highest by GDP as well, most of the countries in the top 5 are around 2.5% your around 5%
I stand corrected - it's been awhile since I had looked at the stats...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

 

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SoBaKi 
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Subject: How long down the road, if ever, do you forsee the political climate improve?
reesescups posted:
SoBaKi posted:
reesescups posted:
No Moe I don't see it improving (political climate) any where in the foreseeable future.


The only way we can make it better is to literally vote every current politician out of office.

I suspect there would be tremendous across the political spectrum support by the citizenry to do this if a single, objective organization could provide the right message. And no, I don't mean some out of touch third party.


How do 'we' go about creating a truly non partisan, non biased source for political news that touches on local, state, regional and national issues as well as foreign policy?

We got the internet, there is honestly a fair amount of transparent sources of information...

politicalportal.com of sorts (is that domain taken? crap it's parked, someone wants 2.5k)


Unfortunately, we cannot. At this point in time, no one on opposite sides will trust each other EVEN if they both agree to a single message. It's my single greatest fear if we were to ever have another Constitutional Convention. There are entirely too many folks interested in their own issues and not enough for the entire country. Can you imagine santorum being part of a Constitutional Convention? laugh

 

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Aerlinthian 
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Subject: How long down the road, if ever, do you forsee the political climate improve?
How long down the road, if ever, do you foresee the political climate improve?


A) After the next civil war.

B) After the overthrow of the next totalitarian regime.

C) Won't care, am leaving the country while there is time.

 

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Subject: How long down the road, if ever, do you forsee the political climate improve?
SoBaKi posted:
Can you imagine santorum being part of a Constitutional Convention? laugh
sick

 

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Tych2 
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Subject: How long down the road, if ever, do you forsee the political climate improve?
Sin_of_Onin posted:
I think it will improve once we reform campaign finance.
Do you think the anger and hatred people spew at each other will change with campaign finance reform. I can't see it.

EDIT: What asswipe whined to the mods about my icon. She wasn't naked. It was lacy panties. I bet it was Mastboro. I guess I'll have to go back to my older one.

 

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cabbyman 
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Subject: How long down the road, if ever, do you forsee the political climate improve?
All of the easy negotiations have been done. What's left is for people to start negotiating away their core values and beliefs.

I don't see that happening anytime soon. It'll come down to a numbers game as to which beliefs are forced on the other side with less numbers.

 

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Derasio 
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Subject: How long down the road, if ever, do you forsee the political climate improve?
Tych2 posted:
Sin_of_Onin posted:
I think it will improve once we reform campaign finance.
Do you think the anger and hatred people spew at each other will change with campaign finance reform. I can't see it.


When your opinion HAS to be based on the opinions of the people who fund your election campaign's genuine opinions, new ideas and honest debate go out the window. Campaign finance reform is not a magic solution but it sure as hell has to be one of the first steps.

 

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hmmmm
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Fist_de_Yuma 
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Subject: How long down the road, if ever, do you forsee the political climate improve?
If Conservatives just shut up and accept their chains we can all get along.

 

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reesescups 
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Subject: How long down the road, if ever, do you forsee the political climate improve?
Fist_de_Yuma posted:
If Conservatives just shut up and accept their chains we can all get along.

 

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imaloon1 
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Subject: How long down the road, if ever, do you forsee the political climate improve?
Moe_Nox posted:
I don't care what yesterday looks like. I don't give a piss in the wind what our founding fathers did, believed, or enacted.
I am asking you, now and currently, do you think that our political climate in this country will improve in someway, anyway, in the foreseeable future?



No

 

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