Yukishiro1
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Most "moderates" and "independants" are just clueless people who don't know what they want
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This is a fact. A thoughtful person who decided after significant introspection they really are for whatever the middle ground is is as rare as true neutral alignment in D&D. 
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paulg_68
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Most "moderates" and "independants" are just clueless people who don't know what they want
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Progress is pretty much always made by people on the extremes.
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Tych2
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Most "moderates" and "independants" are just clueless people who don't know what they want
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I hear this a lot. I consider myself left but a moderate. I am not so far left that I am considered a moonbat. I am not wishy washy on any issue. I know exactly what I want.
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paulg_68
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Most "moderates" and "independants" are just clueless people who don't know what they want
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You are left which sadly is what constitutes moderate in this country.
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Aerlinthian
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Most "moderates" and "independants" are just clueless people who don't know what they want
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The real moderates are constitutional moderates. The others are frauds, self deluded or not. It would be accurate to call them populists and not moderates.
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Tych2
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Most "moderates" and "independants" are just clueless people who don't know what they want
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I guess I am fake moderate. I'll just call myself a liberal than.
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Yukishiro1
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Most "moderates" and "independants" are just clueless people who don't know what they want
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NO YOU ARE AN RWN ZIONIST 
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Kjarhall
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Most "moderates" and "independants" are just clueless people who don't know what they want
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I think in actuality most people are moderates. Depending on how you define the word. To me, it's anyone that isn't far from the center, so you'll have left moderates and right moderates.
I don't think there's such a thing as exactly center, unless you don't care about any issues at all or are a nihilist or something. Everyone else leans a little.
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paulg_68
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Most "moderates" and "independants" are just clueless people who don't know what they want
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I think "moderate" is another word for "uninformed".
If you understood what was going on and you were unethical you would be hard left. If you understood what was going on and you were ethical you would be hard right. Fiscally speaking of course.
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GrilledCheez
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Most "moderates" and "independants" are just clueless people who don't know what they want
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Most of the stances in today's terms are whittled down to the point where one can easily see reasonable arguments on both sides. I am sure there are many independents and moderates who are morons, but clearly one can be very informed on issues and not feel strongly about one side being right over the other.
Look at the abortion issue. Clearly there are people who believe in a woman's rights to her own body, but also think a weighing should take place at some level against the rights of the fetus. That's not an uninformed, apathetic, or stupid view.
I'm surprised someone who has been through law school would have a tough time appreciating those who can see the merits in opposing arguments on the same issue.
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Bobvillas
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Most "moderates" and "independants" are just clueless people who don't know what they want
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We need more labels.
We do not have enough currently.
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Tych2
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Most "moderates" and "independants" are just clueless people who don't know what they want
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Yukishiro1
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Most "moderates" and "independants" are just clueless people who don't know what they want
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GrilledCheez posted:
Most of the stances in today's terms are whittled down to the point where one can easily see reasonable arguments on both sides. I am sure there are many independents and moderates who are morons, but clearly one can be very informed on issues and not feel strongly about one side being right over the other.
Look at the abortion issue. Clearly there are people who believe in a woman's rights to her own body, but also think a weighing should take place at some level against the rights of the fetus. That's not an uninformed, apathetic, or stupid view.
I'm surprised someone who has been through law school would have a tough time appreciating those who can see the merits in opposing arguments on the same issue.
I thought I learned what the word "most" meant before law school, but maybe I was wrong.
P.S. Being able to appreciate the merits of an opposing argument doesn't make you a moderate and vice versa.
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Aerlinthian
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Most "moderates" and "independants" are just clueless people who don't know what they want
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paulg_68 posted:
I think "moderate" is another word for "uninformed".
"Moderate" in the contemporary vernacular is another word for liar. Many of the people who I have seen profess themselves to be "moderate" are in fact leftist liars tying to con others onto their platform.
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GrilledCheez
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Most "moderates" and "independants" are just clueless people who don't know what they want
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Yukishiro1 posted:
GrilledCheez posted:
Most of the stances in today's terms are whittled down to the point where one can easily see reasonable arguments on both sides. I am sure there are many independents and moderates who are morons, but clearly one can be very informed on issues and not feel strongly about one side being right over the other.
Look at the abortion issue. Clearly there are people who believe in a woman's rights to her own body, but also think a weighing should take place at some level against the rights of the fetus. That's not an uninformed, apathetic, or stupid view.
I'm surprised someone who has been through law school would have a tough time appreciating those who can see the merits in opposing arguments on the same issue.
I thought I learned what the word "most" meant before law school, but maybe I was wrong.
P.S. Being able to appreciate the merits of an opposing argument doesn't make you a moderate and vice versa.
If you can see a reasonable argument for the opposing viewpoint and still steadfastly support your own and forsake that view completely then that seems slightly unreasonable to me. Further if you can see reasonable opposing views on everything and still find yourself subscribing completely to either the liberal or conservative viewpoint as described by today's political spectrum then maybe the problem isn't those who don't.
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smellymotor
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Most "moderates" and "independants" are just clueless people who don't know what they want
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I always thought a moderate was someone who doesn't vote or pick sides in a policy debate based on party lines. I truley think it's impossible for someone to genuininely think every policy put forth by one party is golden and every policy from the other party is terrible.
Most of the time these days I see It as vote for who isn't quite as terrible as the alternative
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Most "moderates" and "independants" are just clueless people who don't know what they want
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I am independent.
I know with some precision what I want.
I am informed enough to know neither major party wants what I want. Nor do the couple 2nd-rate parties.
I am also informed enough about what constitutes a PROPER political spectrum to know I'm far, far from moderate in most of my positions. At least, by modern American standards.
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SoBaKi
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Most "moderates" and "independants" are just clueless people who don't know what they want
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paulg_68 posted:
Progress is pretty much always made or REVERSED by people on the extremes.
You either move forward or you don't. And we know the type that DOESN'T want to move forward. 
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SoBaKi
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Most "moderates" and "independants" are just clueless people who don't know what they want
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Brother_Aerlinthian posted:
 !
No wonder you and brother_tard get along so well.
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Sansfear
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Most "moderates" and "independants" are just clueless people who don't know what they want
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Yukishiro1 posted:
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Brother_Tempus
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Most "moderates" and "independants" are just clueless people who don't know what they want
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Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:
I am independent.
I know with some precision what I want.
I am informed enough to know neither major party wants what I want. Nor do the couple 2nd-rate parties.
I am also informed enough about what constitutes a PROPER political spectrum to know I'm far, far from moderate in most of my positions. At least, by modern American standards.
Abaddon is a statist not a moderate .. his support for the status-quo and his revilement of anything upsetting it already shows him to be the liar as Aer has pointed out.
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Kjarhall
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Most "moderates" and "independants" are just clueless people who don't know what they want
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feelips
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Most "moderates" and "independants" are just clueless people who don't know what they want
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SoBaKi posted:
paulg_68 posted:
Progress is pretty much always made or REVERSED by people on the extremes.
You either move forward or you don't. And we know the type that DOESN'T want to move forward.
I've been called a conservative on many positions because I don't want to "move forward". I don't have a problem with change as long as it is an improvement. Too many instances of "moving forward" are not improvements though.
I am a registered independant that has just as many liberal views as i do conservative views. If you display one conservative view around a liberal you are an extreme RWN douchebag. If you display a liberal view around a conservative you are usually just told that you are wrong on an issue.
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Brother_Tempus
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Most "moderates" and "independants" are just clueless people who don't know what they want
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feelips posted:
SoBaKi posted:
paulg_68 posted:
Progress is pretty much always made or REVERSED by people on the extremes.
You either move forward or you don't. And we know the type that DOESN'T want to move forward.
I've been called a conservative on many positions because I don't want to "move forward". I don't have a problem with change as long as it is an improvement. Too many instances of "moving forward" are not improvements though.
I am a registered independant that has just as many liberal views as i do conservative views. If you display one conservative view around a liberal you are an extreme RWN douchebag. If you display a liberal view around a conservative you are usually just told that you are wrong on an issue.
Then maybe you are looking at the argument from the wrong side depending on what your "libealr" and "conservative" views are.
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RHWarrior
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Most "moderates" and "independants" are just clueless people who don't know what they want
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I don't think political affiliation, or political philosophy in general is defined by a 1-dimensional line.
(I know this is mindboggling in the current Amercan climate)
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Cawlin
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Most "moderates" and "independants" are just clueless people who don't know what they want
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Yukishiro1 posted:
In for a penny, in for a pound, or you're a moran!
When you wind up with opinions or beliefs that don't fit into any particular ideology when your entire ideology is taken as a whole, what does that make your stance?
For example: I am very socially liberal, and somewhat fiscally conservative. I am left of center in my beliefs and opinions, but less left than most "liberals".
When a person is left on one issue, and right or far right on another, they tend to be categorized as "moderates" by virtue of the "averaging" of their stances - that's just foolishness brought abuot by the rigidity of our stupid 2 party system.
The "in for a penny, in for a pound" mentality is the source of most of the stupidity in America's political landscape today. Too bad most of you can't understand that, but then again, most of you treat politics like your home town high school football game...
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Most "moderates" and "independants" are just clueless people who don't know what they want
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Brother_Tempus posted:
I revealed you as suitable for nothing more than mockery on day 1 of your presence here. Keep up the good work!
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paulg_68
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Most "moderates" and "independants" are just clueless people who don't know what they want
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That's exactly what a statist would say.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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Most "moderates" and "independants" are just clueless people who don't know what they want
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paulg_68 posted:
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In the immortal words of Socrates - "I drank what?"
"God you guys suck at the internet - how can you fail to locate porn?!" - Eternal_Midnight
"Knowing means nothing." - Fat-badger
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B_Shinkicker
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Most "moderates" and "independants" are just clueless people who don't know what they want
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The new "Big Three" are turning on each other!!!
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Yossarian_42
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Most "moderates" and "independants" are just clueless people who don't know what they want
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If anyone is clueless it is partisans.
It takes a special sort of sheep mentality and obliviousness to support an entire party line from top to bottom.
I don't see how it is possible for an informed, intelligent person not to be independent politically.
Moderate just means you are rational and not prone to the extremes that emotional thinking brings.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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B_Shinkicker posted:
Hint...
Paul posted:
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Moe_Nox
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Most "moderates" and "independants" are just clueless people who don't know what they want
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Even tho this thread is clearly not directed at me, but rather imposter independent moderates, I will beam truth and light at the subject and dispel lies and slander!
The liberal circle jerking arglebargle mob is not allowed to even ask permission to decide who is and isn't moderate, until you get more than 2 of you to agree what that means.
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