Groucho48
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Somewhat Similar Case In Florida
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Trevor Dooley stood his ground, brandished his gun and killed a man after an argument over local skateboarding rules in a Florida town.
He argued in court last month that he had a right to do so under the state’s Stand Your Ground law.
Outrage over the death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, killed by a crime watch volunteer, has focused new attention on the law, which permits those in Florida “to meet force with force, including deadly force†when attacked. As my colleague Lizette Alvarez reports, the Justice Department is pursuing an investigation into Trayvon’s case.
As that investigation goes forward, the law is currently being invoked as a key defense by Mr. Dooley.
The man he killed, David James, had been playing basketball with his 8-year-old daughter in September 2010 when he and Mr. Dooley began arguing over whether a boy on a skateboard had a right to ride on the court, according to an account in The St. Petersburg Times. There was a “physical confrontation,†the police said, during which Mr. Dooley fired the weapon he was carrying, killing Mr. James in front of his daughter.
Without googling or anything, do you think the shooter should be sent home with no charges or charged with something? Speculate on how you think the police should have handled this situation. (This is not a gotcha for one side or the other.)
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Ashmaele
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tag for later
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MayorShade
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He should have shot the skateboarder instead. Nobody likes skateboarders.
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Z-Elder
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Who started fighting?
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Groucho48
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Z-Elder posted:
Who started fighting?
I posted a bit more about this in one of the other threads.
If by fighting, you mean...who initiated physical contact..you decide. After the one guy waved his gun around, he stuck it in his waistband and started walking away. The other guy followed him saying something like...don't ever pull a gun like that. The guy then pulled the gun again and the other guy grabbed for it. A struggle ensued and the guy without the gun got shot and died.
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Groucho48
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This is the link from the other thread...
Trevor Dooley's attorney portrayed him Wednesday as a 69-year-old man with fused discs in his neck who feared for his life when set upon by his 41-year-old neighbor, six inches taller and 70 pounds heavier.
Dooley is protected by Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law, his attorney argued, firing in self-defense when the most mundane of neighbor disputes turned violent.
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Arthur, now 15, said he was visiting friends in the Twin Lakes neighborhood. He took his skateboard to the park and asked permission to practice trick moves from James, who was shooting hoops with his daughter. The only others in the park were a couple playing tennis.
But the boy then heard a voice from across the street. It was Dooley, outside his garage, shouting that he should get off the court, that there was a no-skateboarding sign. The boy stopped.
He heard James call out to Dooley, "Show me the sign."
Michael Scott Whitt, practicing tennis serves nearby with his wife, Michelle, stopped to watch.
They testified that Dooley briefly went into his garage, then started across the street with a dark object sticking out of his waistband. They said James threw his hands up and said, "Oh, come on."
Dooley and James argued over letting the boy skate until Dooley lifted his shirt and said, "F--- you," the Whitts testified.
They said Dooley turned and started home, but James caught up with him. "Mr. James said, 'Don't flash a weapon,' something like that," Michelle Whitt testified.
Then, she said, Dooley pulled out the gun and James grabbed his hand. The men struggled, they fell to the ground, and James ended up on his knees as Dooley lay on his side. They still wrestled for the gun.
The gun fired.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/criminal/witnesses-dispute-trevor-dooleys-stand-your-ground-claim-in-valrico/1206308
This is from December. I've been trying to find out what the verdict was but haven't been able to. It also appears that a civil trial also happened/is happening.
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Z-Elder
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"They said Dooley turned and started home, but James caught up with him. "Mr. James said, 'Don't flash a weapon,' something like that," Michelle Whitt testified.
Then, she said, Dooley pulled out the gun and James grabbed his hand. The men struggled, they fell to the ground, and James ended up on his knees as Dooley lay on his side. They still wrestled for the gun.
The gun fired."
That is a tough call. Dooley was going home and it was over until the younger, bigger guy got pissed and started it again by closing ground. I'd think that sets Dooley free.
I found that the motion to dismiss the case comes up in April.
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IMHO
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Dooley was the aggressor.
If he truly stopped to get his gun before he went over to confront James, I think it could be argued first degree murder.
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IMHO
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Z-Elder posted:
That is a tough call. Dooley was going home and it was over until the younger, bigger guy got pissed and started it again by closing ground. I'd think that sets Dooley free.
Dooley initiated the incident. The fact that he may have stopped to get the gun is premeditation. If he had time to think there might be trouble (he grabbed his gun) he should have called the police.
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IMHO
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What would have happened if James had a concealed carry permit and Dooley flashed his gun? That would be a green light for James to stand his ground and shoot the Motherf***r.
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GrilledCheez
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FL has a stupid law. This is the type of "frontier justice" RWNs thirst for. I don't get it at all. Whether it was legal or not (which on the facts I doubt. I imagine Fl still has brandishing laws) it should have been illegal. escalating a confrontation with a gun should be illegal in all but the most obvious cases of self defense.
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DemonicXH
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GrilledCheez posted:
FL has a stupid law. This is the type of "frontier justice" RWNs thirst for. I don't get it at all. Whether it was legal or not (which on the facts I doubt. I imagine Fl still has brandishing laws) it should have been illegal. escalating a confrontation with a gun should be illegal in all but the most obvious cases of self defense.
If you have a concealed weapons permit its a mandatory 5 or 10 years for brandishing a gun in a threatening manner.
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Grymlo
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Dont think this is a somewhat similar case. If you want similar use the one i posted that happened in Ocala Fl. Thats about as similar as you can get.
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Abaddon_Ambrosius
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If you physically assault someone, you should expect to meet serious force in defense. If you wield any sort of a weapon or martial arts, you should expect to meet deadly force in defense.
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