Galois2005
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Apparently I live in Greece
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And you people think the US is being overrun by Libtards.... my province of 11M puts out an annual list of civil servants earning over $100K That's not including pension and benefits which of course are gold plated and indexed, in real terms most of these people would actually be around $150K.
Almost 79000 of them....
19 of them are working at a Zoo.
Over 150 of them are bus drivers.
17 are toll collectors.
My Dad, retired cop on $80K a year pension, back on the list with his second career paying $110K for some bullshit 20 hour a week advisory gig. In short $190K a year with benefits and a nice vehicle for part time work, nice guy type, I would never employ him though, not much aptitude.
List should explode in about 5 years as school teachers, cops, etc. average about $90K ATM.
CAN $ > US $ thinking none of the jobs pay anything like that in the US?
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GrilledCheez
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100k is not great money anymore. It's good but plenty of people should be making that kind of money these days. Most outrage issues like this are in the perspective.
if wages hadn't been shit canned from the eighties till now anyone with a decent skill and a lot of experience would be making six figures. As it stands it's still an easily attainable wage for working stiffs.
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paulg_68
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I don't care how much government workers are paid so long as it it in line with their productivity.
In many cases it is not.
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Fist_de_Yuma
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paulg_68 posted:
I don't care how much government workers are paid so long as it it in line with their productivity.
In MOST cases it is not.
Fixed. (grin)
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Galois2005
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GrilledCheez posted:
100k is not great money anymore. It's good but plenty of people should be making that kind of money these days. Most outrage issues like this are in the perspective.
if wages hadn't been shit canned from the eighties till now anyone with a decent skill and a lot of experience would be making six figures. As it stands it's still an easily attainable wage for working stiffs.
Average full time wage in Canada is around $45K. (Why they stop EI and CPP contributions there). $100K puts you in the top 5%.
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Yukishiro1
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It does seem odd toll collectors are making six figures. Although probably when you get into it it isn't toll collectors but the administrators in charge of the whole toll collection process. Who still probably shouldn't be making six figures, admittedly, but those sorts of studies usually engage in all sorts of underhanded manipulatino of the data.
Bus drivers making 100k doesn't surprise me. They are probably doing double shifts working 16 hours a day and billing a ton of overtime. Because even with the overtime premium it's still cheaper than hiring two guys.
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Fat_wong
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most of them are not making that money based on their per hour wage, but its based on the amount of overtime they accrue, which of course is 1.5-2x pay.
Which of course means they are understaffed, or the person getting the OT has a special skill that makes them valuable.
Faux outrage is funny.
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GrilledCheez
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averages that include everyone are not that valuable. Look at averages for those who've worked their whole life and are over 45.
100k is good money for a worker bee at the end of their career but it is far from ZOMG GREAT INCOME these days. Most of this is a matter of perspective.
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tenkly
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100k in most of canada is great.
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paulg_68
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Inflation numbers generally fail to account for the fact that products are continuously being replaced with new technology which is vastly superior to old technology.
If you look at the statistics, it may appear that the relative income of worker bees has gone down. The reality though is that you can get wayyyy more bang for your buck these days so the average quality of life for worker bees is going up.
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GrilledCheez
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individual wages as a percentage of production costs and profits are way down. The average income numbers for the bottom 50 percent of americans at least has barely risen 10 percent in 40 years. That's pathetic.
What we see in this outrage is that gov't generally gives all workers a COLA every year. Clearly this is outrageous because under Pauls' knew bang for your buck newfangledtech scale people can buy way awesomer stuff now for the same money, which is almost the same thing as negative inflation.
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Szerek
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tenkly posted:
100k in most of canada is great.
You see, in the US 100k isn't great money, but anyone can live on minimum wage (15k per year).
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paulg_68
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GrilledCheez posted:
individual wages as a percentage of production costs and profits are way down.
That's because manufacturing is much less labor intensive these days. Actually services and general business overhead are also much less labor intensive.
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Bonzoboy1
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I can remember when the public sector made less but had better benefits and job protections than the private sector, now they make more, have better benefits and protections than the private sector who pays their salary.
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paulg_68
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And their unions make massive donations to the Democrats who cut deals to guarantee they never have to suffer layoffs or pay cuts even when the rest of the country is suffering.
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eodoll
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I dont know how pensions are supposed to work - where does that money come from? I know a few retired people on the pension system - they get good money for doing nothing. Why do we even offer that as a benefit for government jobs? Government jobs should just pay more and get rid of the pensions altogether.
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paulg_68
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I think pensions are a good idea but the payout amount shouldn't be guaranteed.
The payments into the pension plan should be guaranteed though and they should always be paid at the time the work is done.
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ZigmundZag
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paulg_68 posted:
Inflation numbers generally fail to account for the fact that products are continuously being replaced with new technology which is vastly superior to old technology.
If you look at the statistics, it may appear that the relative income of worker bees has gone down. The reality though is that you can get wayyyy more bang for your buck these days so the average quality of life for worker bees is going up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0
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Bonzoboy1
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The money for the pensions is there and won't ever be there but the left just keeps giving them more because it is the stronghold of their political power.
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Szerek
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paulg_68 posted:
I think pensions are a good idea but the payout amount shouldn't be guaranteed.
The payments into the pension plan should be guaranteed though and they should always be paid at the time the work is done.
No, public employees should have to put their money in the Casino we call the market via a 401k like the rest of us. This way, every time the market tanks we can listen to them yell how they just lost half of their retirement, rather than telling the rest of us to pay more in taxes so they can have their full retirement.
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eodoll
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paulg_68 posted:
I think pensions are a good idea but the payout amount shouldn't be guaranteed.
The payments into the pension plan should be guaranteed though and they should always be paid at the time the work is done.
It seems like a really awesome 401k plan that pays back 2/3s your salary + 3% per year inflation increase for 20+ years. I wish we all had access to such a thing but it's not economically viable.
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paulg_68
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Szerek posted:
No, public employees should have to put their money in the Casino we call the market via a 401k like the rest of us. This way, every time the market tanks we can listen to them yell how they just lost half of their retirement, rather than telling the rest of us to pay more in taxes so they can have their full retirement.
My mom was a school teacher and her pension plan was invested in stocks. It did well when stocks were going up and did bad when they weren't.
The payments aren't guaranteed but she makes more off of that than she does off of Social Security and it cost way less than SS.
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Yukishiro1
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Bonzoboy1 posted:
I can remember when the public sector made less but had better benefits and job protections than the private sector, now they make more, have better benefits and protections than the private sector who pays their salary.
That's because people in the private sector have been screwed on wages for the past 30 years.
Govt gives COLAs, private sector doesn't. Real wages are basically stagnant in the private sector in the past 30 years. Getting mad at govt employees because their wages keep pace seems like you are directing your anger in the wrong direction.
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Galois2005
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paulg_68 posted:
I think pensions are a good idea but the payout amount shouldn't be guaranteed.
The payments into the pension plan should be guaranteed though and they should always be paid at the time the work is done.
Which is the reality of most every private sector pension out there, my union collects and invests a portion of my wage package in a pension, they bill it as a defined benefit but in reality if the plan investments do not perform as needed the payouts will be reduced, you can't go back to customers 30 years later and ask for more money. IMHO defined benefit plans in the private sector are lala land and a really bad idea because no one really knows how markets will perform - you end up with a system where some win and some lose and no one should be gambling.
The governmemt shouldn't be giving guarantees to public sector workers no one in the private sector can get.
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Szerek
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paulg_68 posted:
Szerek posted:
No, public employees should have to put their money in the Casino we call the market via a 401k like the rest of us. This way, every time the market tanks we can listen to them yell how they just lost half of their retirement, rather than telling the rest of us to pay more in taxes so they can have their full retirement.
My mom was a school teacher and her pension plan was invested in stocks. It did well when stocks were going up and did bad when they weren't.
The payments aren't guaranteed but she makes more off of that than she does off of Social Security and it cost way less than SS.
And those states where public employee pensions are guaranteed on the backs of the taxpayers?
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Taliesihne
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Fist_de_Yuma posted:
paulg_68 posted:
I don't care how much government workers are paid so long as it it in line with their productivity.
In MOST cases it is not.
Fixed. (grin)
Why do you hate our troops Fist? 
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Galois2005
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Taliesihne posted:
Fist_de_Yuma posted:
paulg_68 posted:
I don't care how much government workers are paid so long as it it in line with their productivity.
In MOST cases it is not.
Fixed. (grin)
Why do you hate our troops Fist?
Funny the one group that gets paid like sh@t in Canada are our troops, the ones with no union....
Still looking at this list, 27 Canine trainers some as high as $140K..... U of T finance prof $761K....
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