Hyperimiator
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The big lie about gas pricing.
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Bernie Sanders Calls Out All Three GOP Candidates for Lying About Obama and Gas Prices
By: Jason EasleyMarch 21, 2012
Sen. Sanders discussed oil speculation, “There is now more supply in America available in America today than there was three years ago when the price of gas was a buck ninety a gallon. There’s less demand now than there was at any time since 1997, so we’re not looking at a supply and demand problem. What we also know is that over eight percent repeat over eighty percent of the oil futures market is not controlled by people who actually use the oil, airlines, etc. , but by Wall Street speculators like Goldman Sachs/Morgan Stanley.â€
After estimating that legislation ending excessive oil speculation would drop the price of gas by at least fifty six cents a gallon, Sanders was asked by Schultz if the Republican presidential candidates were lying about the Obama’s policies driving up the price of gas. The Vermont senator answered, “Yeah, they are. The truth is, as the president indicated, we are doing a lot of oil drilling right now. But I think at the root of the problem is not the supply issue, I think the root of the problem is that our friends on Wall Street who caused this recession through their greed are at it again, and by manipulating oil futures market they’re driving up prices. What we are trying to do, Ed, now is demand that Commodity Futures Trading Commission, an arcane agency which regulates the oil futures market use emergency power to end excessive speculation.â€
We’ve been down this road before as a country many times. Sen. Sanders was one hundred percent correct. The cause of the problem isn’t supply and demand. It is the excessive oil speculation driving up prices. If President Obama wants to put an end to this, he can do so at any time by uttering this one sentence. Today, we are launching a federal investigation into excessive speculation in the oil futures market. That one sentence would put the brakes on this entire scam.
Gingrich, Romney, and Santorum are lying to the American people about the cause of rising gas prices. If the Sanders legislation would pass and be signed by the president, the price of gasoline would come down, but as usual, Republicans who are looking to score cheap political points ahead of the November election oppose any more that would lower the price of gas and help the American people in any way.
I wish more Democrats had the courage to stand up and plainly say what the Independent Bernie Sanders did. The Republicans are lying to the American people. Their presidential candidates are lying. Their members of Congress are lying, and their propaganda machine is putting out a stream of endless lies all based on the hope of winning an election in November.
Republicans are lying, and it is up to all Americans who care about facts to join with Sen. Sanders and President Obama in calling them out on it.
http://www.politicususa.com/bernie-sandersgas-prices/
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Rhodoman
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A socialist blaming capitalists.
What were the odds?
Rho
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Mangler_SC
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If the Republicans are lying, then so are the Democrats headed by barry.
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Hyperimiator
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Yeah like socialists were responsible for the Wall Street meltdown, don't you ever get tired of repeating myths?
Sanders bill would force CFTC's hand in effort to lower gas prices
By Andrew Restuccia - 03/21/12 01:39 PM ET
A handful of liberal senators unveiled legislation Wednesday that would force federal regulators to curb “excessive†market speculation that they say is responsible for soaring gas prices.
The bill, authored by Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), mandates that the Commodity Futures Trading Commission use its emergency powers within 14 days to put limits on speculative trading in energy futures markets.
“Millions of American consumers are hurting as a result of excessive speculation on the oil futures market and the future of our economy hangs in the balance. The time to act is now,†Sanders said Wednesday.
The legislation is co-sponsored by Sens. Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.), Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio), Ben Cardin (D-Md.), Al Franken (D-Minn.), Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn.) and Bill Nelson (D-Fla.).
The senators argued that the CFTC has been “dragging its feet†in establishing
“position limits†on the amount of futures and swaps contracts for oil and other commodities that traders may hold. The limits are required under the sweeping 2010 financial reform law.
Democrats have increasingly blamed “excessive†speculation for rising gas prices to counter GOP attacks on President Obama’s energy plan.
A coalition of Democrats, 23 senators and 45 House members, urged the CFTC earlier this month to put limits on speculative trading.
“It is one of your primary duties — indeed, perhaps your most important — to ensure that the prices Americans pay for gasoline and heating oil are fair, and that the markets in which prices are discovered operate free from fraud, abuse and manipulation,†the lawmakers said in a letter.
Pump prices have risen to the top of the political agenda in Washington, D.C. Gas prices increased to a national average of $3.86 per gallon Wednesday, according to AAA — up 30 cents during the last month.
Republicans have sought to pin the blame for high gas prices on Democrats, arguing they have not done enough to expand domestic oil-and-gas production.
Energy experts say federal policymakers have limited options to lower gas prices, as they are tethered to oil prices, which are set on world markets.
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notmforce2k
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Rhodoman posted:
A socialist blaming capitalists.
What were the odds?
Rho
But do you have any comment on what he said?
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Rhodoman
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If oil speculators are doing anything illegal, the Obama administration should already be prosecuting them.
If they aren't, then they should be left alone. Speculators are betting that oil prices are going to go up higher than they are driving the market up already. If that's true, they win. If it's not and the supply and demand are truly as Mr. Sanders describes them, they will lose and lose big when the price drops and the speculators' investments tank.
The same supply and demand model that sets the world oil prices will determine where the speculators land, as it should. Speculators do not drive the price, they are betting on the price.
Rho
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notmforce2k
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Not bad. Not bad at all. 
I certainly hope that last part is true but I never doubt whose hands are in whose pockets anymore. Seriously, I could hear the craziest story about corruption and easily imagine it being true.
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Hyperimiator
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The big lie about gas pricing.
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Rhodoman posted:
If oil speculators are doing anything illegal, the Obama administration should already be prosecuting them.
If they aren't, then they should be left alone. Speculators are betting that oil prices are going to go up higher than they are driving the market up already. If that's true, they win. If it's not and the supply and demand are truly as Mr. Sanders describes them, they will lose and lose big when the price drops and the speculators' investments tank.
The same supply and demand model that sets the world oil prices will determine where the speculators land, as it should. Speculators do not drive the price, they are betting on the price.
Rho
Yes the invisible hand theory, sorry but what you really mean is that human greed and the manipulation of the market is a good thing for the American People.
So why not let them investigate hmmmm?
Why because more than likely there is collusion, and the leading front runners of the Republican Party will be shown for the liars they are.
By your response you must believe that Obama has nothing to do with the large rise in price then, shame on your for abandoning your Party's position.
So which is it?
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The Hyperimiator song http://www.wfmu.org/listen.ram?show=1639&starttime=1:40:35 "You are never going to be able to vote for the revolution. Get that hope out of your mind" -Jerry Rubin http://www.youtube.com/user/Hyperimiator#p/u
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ferdinand.the.great
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Rhodoman posted:
If oil speculators are doing anything illegal, the Obama administration should already be prosecuting them.
If they aren't, then they should be left alone.
Rho
"If it's not against the law, it's morally acceptable."
Got it. So you're a filthy hypocrite. That's cool.
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Rhodoman
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Is there something stopping an investigation?
And, I would posit that the speculators are betting the prices are going to rise because of Obama's policies (read: attitude about petroleum, in general).
Rho
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Rhodoman
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ferdinand.the.great posted:
Rhodoman posted:
If oil speculators are doing anything illegal, the Obama administration should already be prosecuting them.
If they aren't, then they should be left alone.
Rho
"If it's not against the law, it's morally acceptable."
Got it. So you're a filthy hypocrite. That's cool.
Careful, you wouldn't want to hurt my feelings.
You want to insult me so bad you had to put words in my mouth to do it.
Rho
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Venit hiems quidquid Latine dictum sit altum viditur
Referring to illegal aliens as 'immigrants' is the same as referring to shoplifters as 'shoppers' - Dorvinion
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ferdinand.the.great
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Rhodoman posted:
Is there something stopping an investigation?
And, I would posit that the speculators are betting the prices are going to rise because of Obama's policies (read: attitude about petroleum, in general).
Rho
Prices are going to rise because the only large stores of oil left are difficult to get to or difficult to refine or both. And don't give me any crap about Alaska -- their oil might not be as hard to get to as it is to get gasoline from the tar sands, but it's sure not easy.
And Obama's attitude on petroleum? Goddammit, Rho, you aren't dumb enough to think that continued use of oil at anything even close to our current rate is a good thing.
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shaggynuts24
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The big lie about gas pricing.
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Rhodoman posted:
If oil speculators are doing anything illegal, the Obama administration should already be prosecuting them.
If they aren't, then they should be left alone. Speculators are betting that oil prices are going to go up higher than they are driving the market up already. If that's true, they win. If it's not and the supply and demand are truly as Mr. Sanders describes them, they will lose and lose big when the price drops and the speculators' investments tank.
The same supply and demand model that sets the world oil prices will determine where the speculators land, as it should. Speculators do not drive the price, they are betting on the price.
Rho
are you predicting a "gas bubble" ?
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Rhodoman
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ferdinand.the.great posted:
continued use of oil at anything even close to our current rate
Meaning use of oil at something quite a bit LESS than our current rate?
Do you have any idea what that would be like? I don't think you do.
We'll get there. We just shouldn't by having the government decide when and how fast.
Rho
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ferdinand.the.great
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Rhodoman posted:
ferdinand.the.great posted:
continued use of oil at anything even close to our current rate
Meaning use of oil at something quite a bit LESS than our current rate?
Do you have any idea what that would be like? I don't think you do.
We'll get there. We just shouldn't by having the government decide when and how fast.
Rho
Yes, I do, and it won't be pretty. But, then, neither will climate change. And, again, you're not dumb enough to deny anthropogenic climate change. I know you'll try, but you're not that dumb.
And only one of these things is fixable once it happens.
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Rhodoman
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Then I'm confused.
Is the high price of gasoline caused by morally bankrupt greedy wall street speculators or by the insightful and correct energy policy of the Obama administration of making gas expensive in order to wean us off of the doomsday-bringing global-warming-accelerating fossil fuel dependency?
Rho
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shaggynuts24
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ferdinand.the.great posted:
Rhodoman posted:
Is there something stopping an investigation?
And, I would posit that the speculators are betting the prices are going to rise because of Obama's policies (read: attitude about petroleum, in general).
Rho
Prices are going to rise because the only large stores of oil left are difficult to get to or difficult to refine or both. And don't give me any crap about Alaska -- their oil might not be as hard to get to as it is to get gasoline from the tar sands, but it's sure not easy.
And Obama's attitude on petroleum? Goddammit, Rho, you aren't dumb enough to think that continued use of oil at anything even close to our current rate is a good thing.
doesn't Alaska already have a pipeline in the general vicinity of where they want to drill?
how many years have they been using that pipeline already?
how long do they expect it to produce at the current rate?
could that be used as a measure of how long the other site "might" produce?
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shaggynuts24
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wtf is anthropogenic?
doesn't anyone speak english anymore?
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Hyperimiator
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Even Pakistan, that hotbed of liberal socialism is asking for the USA to investigate this.
Oil companies behind oil price fixing and artificial high prices
Dr. Jassim Taqui
Islamabad—The oil companies devise various means to ensure the surge in oil prices by fixing prices and creating artificial shortage. The process helps also black marketers to earn huge illegal wealth creating misery and instability for the oil consumer nations and individuals. The price fixing started in America. It is now being witness in Punjab. It might expand all over Pakistan if the authorities do not hold investigations to identify the culprits and impose exemplary punishment on them.
In the process, these companies have earned billions in additional illegal profit, fleecing the consumers and delaying economic recovery from one of the worst kind of recession that threatens to devastate the global financial system.
The issue started in Missouri, United States, when Senator Clair McCaskill took note of the price fixing by oil companies and vowed investigation into this affairs to help shed light on industry practices. Claire promised to expose all those involved regardless of the findings.
Now, the American Federal Trade Commission ( FTC) is investigation into why some of America’s top oil companies closed their refiners for maintenance causing the prices to rise. The investigation came as a result of allegations that oil companies deliberately closed refining facilities to artificially decrease supply and drive up prices.
According to the FTC, oil company profits have nearly doubled since the beginning of 2011, even though oil refinery production is down 7 percent from last year. Investigators have been giving compulsory authority to demand internal documents related to the decision to shut down production.
Oil cartel is also practicing one of the worst crude oil fixing that goes at variance with market economy. Oil producers work hand in hand with large oil companies to fix oil prices by production quotas, which they adjust to ensure that oil prices would never come down. These oil companies and oil producers are fleecing oil consumers all over the world. They are also behind prolonging global recession.
The mega oil mafia also creates instability and regional wars in oil producing countries ( Nigeria, Libya, Sudan, Iraq , Iran and other regions) to create panic and ensure sharp rise in oil prices.
It is about time that international investigation should be held to arrest this fraud and to bring to accountability the mega oil mafia that is stealing every individual in the globe by manipulating the prices of this strategic commodity.
http://pakobserver.net/detailnews.asp?id=99775
but oh yeah I forgot, Pakistan loves Obama.....those damm liberal commies!
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shaggynuts24
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Hyperimiator posted:
Pakistan Nigeria, Libya, Sudan, Iraq , Iran and other regions) to create panic and ensure sharp rise in oil prices.
figured it out
muslims like oil and that is why they populate oil rich countries
they are like divining rods for oil
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Hyperimiator
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shaggynuts24 posted:
Hyperimiator posted:
Pakistan Nigeria, Libya, Sudan, Iraq , Iran and other regions) to create panic and ensure sharp rise in oil prices.
figured it out
muslims like oil and that is why they populate oil rich countries
they are like divining rods for oil
Kind of like me, golf and water, if I hit a golf ball it will find water, wherever it is.
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Fenping_DT
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Wasn't there recently an article about how the administration is releasing some of the emergency oil supply because of high gas prices? (found it)
http://vnboards.ign.com/acfriends/b5258/116295881/p1
It seems like both the republican candidates and Obama alike don't really want to focus on the root cause of oil prices.
Hyperimiator posted:
If President Obama wants to put an end to this, he can do so at any time by uttering this one sentence. Today, we are launching a federal investigation into excessive speculation in the oil futures market. That one sentence would put the brakes on this entire scam.
Um. So why doesn't he?
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Hyperimiator
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...and don't forget the Wall Street Journal, that other hotbed of liberal socialist commies
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204781804577267690888223980.html?grcc=d3ac29ddb30893064f601ae86aa5b960Z9&mod=WSJ_hps_sections_person alfinance
By REX NUTTING
Quoted: "The price of gasoline when Barack Obama became president was $1.89. All of this gigantic increase came from his policies." —Newt Gingrich
March 6, 2012
Reality: U.S. gasoline prices, like prices throughout the advanced economies, are determined by global market forces. It is hard to see how Mr. Obama's policies can be blamed (see Stat of the Week).
But Mr. Gingrich puts the onus on President Obama entirely for the doubling of gasoline prices since January 2009. He has made cheap gas the centerpiece of his presidential campaign.
Mr. Gingrich promises to make the U.S. "energy independent," which he says will push prices down and isolate U.S. drivers from political tensions in the Middle East.
Mr. Gingrich ignores the basic fact about U.S. gas prices: They are largely fixed by the price of crude oil, which is determined by global supply and demand.
When Mr. Obama was inaugurated, demand was weak due to the recession. But now it's stronger, and thus the price is higher.
What's more, producing a lot of oil doesn't lower the price of gasoline in your country. According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, Germans over the past three years have paid an average of $2.64 a gallon (excluding taxes), while Americans paid $2.69, even though the U.S. produced 5.4 million barrels of oil per day while Germany produced just 28,000.
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Hyperimiator
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Fenping_DT posted:
Wasn't there recently an article about how the administration is releasing some of the emergency oil supply because of high gas prices? (found it)
http://vnboards.ign.com/acfriends/b5258/116295881/p1
It seems like both the republican candidates and Obama alike don't really want to focus on the root cause of oil prices.
Hyperimiator posted:
If President Obama wants to put an end to this, he can do so at any time by uttering this one sentence. Today, we are launching a federal investigation into excessive speculation in the oil futures market. That one sentence would put the brakes on this entire scam.
Um. So why doesn't he?
It is starting now, like as in this week, he's been waiting till the Repub candidates fully insert shoe in mouth on this issue, before he uses this to his advantage come November.
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Anebriated
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i don't really use much petroleum.
i have these legs, warm clothes, a bus to share with crazy people on their way to the mental hospital.
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Fenping_DT
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Subject:
The big lie about gas pricing.
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Hyperimiator posted:
Fenping_DT posted:
Wasn't there recently an article about how the administration is releasing some of the emergency oil supply because of high gas prices? (found it)
http://vnboards.ign.com/acfriends/b5258/116295881/p1
It seems like both the republican candidates and Obama alike don't really want to focus on the root cause of oil prices.
Hyperimiator posted:
If President Obama wants to put an end to this, he can do so at any time by uttering this one sentence. Today, we are launching a federal investigation into excessive speculation in the oil futures market. That one sentence would put the brakes on this entire scam.
Um. So why doesn't he?
It is starting now, like as in this week, he's been waiting till the Repub candidates fully insert shoe in mouth on this issue, before he uses this to his advantage come November.
That's good I guess. I don't like that mentality though that it's better to wait a week to score political points than do now and start saving Americans money as soon as possible.
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Hyperimiator
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Subject:
The big lie about gas pricing.
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Facts:
Prices increased from $22 in 2002 to just under $100 a barrel average in 2008.
Domestic oil production is increasing for the first time since the Johnson administration.
Republican Spin:
Obama is anti petroleum, and the rise in prices is his fault.
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The Hyperimiator song http://www.wfmu.org/listen.ram?show=1639&starttime=1:40:35 "You are never going to be able to vote for the revolution. Get that hope out of your mind" -Jerry Rubin http://www.youtube.com/user/Hyperimiator#p/u
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shaggynuts24
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Subject:
The big lie about gas pricing.
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Hyperimiator posted:
Facts:
Prices increased from $22 in 2002 to just under $100 a barrel average in 2008.
Domestic oil production is increasing for the first time since the Johnson administration.
Republican Spin:
Obama is anti petroleum, and the rise in prices is his fault.
qft
the facts speak for themselves
Obama should work harder to get the oil prices back down to the $20-$30 range
--------------
Facts translated:
1. since the extreme unrest in the middle east [read OPEC area] the price of oil has quadrupled
2. campaign promise of abandoning military occupation in those area's is still unmet
--------------
truth revealed:
campaign promises don't mean sh@t
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cabbyman
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When Bush was in office it was his fault.
Now that Obama is in office it's Bush's fault.
Don't you guys see?!?!?!? GOD YOU'RE SO STUPID!!!!
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shaggynuts24
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Subject:
The big lie about gas pricing.
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cabbyman posted:
When Bush was in office it was his fault.
Now that Obama is in office it's Bush's fault.
Don't you guys see?!?!?!? GOD YOU'RE SO STUPID!!!!
a failure is even more of a failure when it is recognized as a failure and steps are not taken to fix the failure.
[i win - 4 failures in a sentence]
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the_great_intex
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Perhaps Romney and Scotorum will invest into natural gas cars, there's plenty of profanity between the two of them to power them
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Hyperimiator
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"Let's put every single member of Congress on record: you can stand with oil companies or you can stand up for the American people," Obama said.
The battle has begun...
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The Hyperimiator song http://www.wfmu.org/listen.ram?show=1639&starttime=1:40:35 "You are never going to be able to vote for the revolution. Get that hope out of your mind" -Jerry Rubin http://www.youtube.com/user/Hyperimiator#p/u
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BritonGuy
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Emergency powers? One more step towards the liberalcon oligarchy.
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Briton Guy...persnickety...NEVER!  -Murron (truly) Hawkson is the greatest. -Hawkson Britonguy is usually right. -Onslaught on BT “Do or do not... there is no try.†- Yodazami Do you expect me to remember what I put in my mouth? -NSMachi
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Mangler_SC
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The big lie about gas pricing.
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Anebriated posted:
i don't really use much petroleum.
i have these legs, warm clothes, a bus to share with crazy people on their way to the mental hospital.
Is the bus electric?
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BritonGuy
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The bus is powered by love and hope.
and aborted children.
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Briton Guy...persnickety...NEVER! -Murron (truly) Hawkson is the greatest. -Hawkson Britonguy is usually right. -Onslaught on BT “Do or do not... there is no try.†- Yodazami Do you expect me to remember what I put in my mouth? -NSMachi
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Stormyblade
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One of the best threads I have read here on ACF...
...I can't wait to see what happens between the two parties - to see how this all falls out. I welcome an investigation as I'd love to see if there's been some manipulation of oil prices and if there's been some sweet fattening of pockets of key individuals in our government by oil companies. One side is going to come away from such an investigation looking like shining gold while the other is going to look like sh*t.
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Nothing to see here...
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levgre
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Public transportation has a higher mpg per person obviously. Although in some cities hybrid electric buses are used.
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BritonGuy
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The big lie about gas pricing.
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levgre posted:
Public transportation has a higher mpg per person obviously. Although in some cities hybrid electric buses are used.
Everywhere and in every situation?
Careful before answering, I have a PDF of stats.
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Briton Guy...persnickety...NEVER! -Murron (truly) Hawkson is the greatest. -Hawkson Britonguy is usually right. -Onslaught on BT “Do or do not... there is no try.†- Yodazami Do you expect me to remember what I put in my mouth? -NSMachi
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levgre
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The big lie about gas pricing.
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BritonGuy posted:
levgre posted:
Public transportation has a higher mpg per person obviously. Although in some cities hybrid electric buses are used.
Everywhere and in every situation?
Careful before answering, I have a PDF of stats.
No, not everywhere in every situation. Like in Minneapolis sometimes I'd be the only passenger on the bus. But the whole system works out to higher mpg/person.
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BritonGuy
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Subject:
The big lie about gas pricing.
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levgre posted:
BritonGuy posted:
levgre posted:
Public transportation has a higher mpg per person obviously. Although in some cities hybrid electric buses are used.
Everywhere and in every situation?
Careful before answering, I have a PDF of stats.
No, not everywhere in every situation. Like in Minneapolis sometimes I'd be the only passenger on the bus. But the whole system works out to higher mpg/person.
The whole system placed everywhere in every situation would destroy the ozone and turn the planet into a marshmallow. Public transportation adds to greenhouse gas and should be abolished entirely.
Don't worry, I have an alternative plan. Bikers should be given rocket launcher subsidies. Problem solved.
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Briton Guy...persnickety...NEVER! -Murron (truly) Hawkson is the greatest. -Hawkson Britonguy is usually right. -Onslaught on BT “Do or do not... there is no try.†- Yodazami Do you expect me to remember what I put in my mouth? -NSMachi
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