Bochica
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If you were to write a novel today...
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Would you publish it the old fashioned way (obtain a literary agent and have them sell your story to a publishing house)?
or
Publish it yourself digitally on the internet?
Just curious how you all see the future of publishing headed.
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GrimTempest
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If you were to write a novel today...
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Its much easier to self publish digitally than it is to get a publisher to pick your work up and publish it. I think the trend is going to be people will self publish their first book, or first few books, as ebooks and then when its proven itself take it to a publisher to get print copies done. As much as i dislike the move to digital i think anyone who only goes one way or the other at this point is only hurting themselves. Both need to be used to get the most out of publishing your work and its easier and faster to gain some interest in your work with digital publishing. If you have digital sales numbers to show a publisher i think that would significantly increase your chances of getting a decent publisher behind you.
All that said i would still submit to a print publisher first just to see if i could get one of the big publishers to pick it up before making the digital move myself and then hopefully have a dual ebook/print book release at the same time. Popularity of ebooks or not most of the best authors and sellers are still the ones who have print books on the shelves.
Self publishing in print on the other hand is mostly futile as your books will have very limited availability and cost you more out of pocket so i wouldn't even consider it as an option.
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vn_jurojin
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If you were to write a novel today...
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Disagree to a point. I think that most authors will try to get their books published the old fashioned way first, then, if they're rejected, go digital. THEN if they're successful, try to get them published again by a publisher. It is still vastly more profitable and respectable to get published the old fashioned way than it is to be self published. Hell, just a few short years ago self publishing was scorned.
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GrimTempest
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If you were to write a novel today...
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vn_jurojin posted:
Disagree to a point. I think that most authors will try to get their books published the old fashioned way first, then, if they're rejected, go digital. THEN if they're successful, try to get them published again by a publisher. It is still vastly more profitable and respectable to get published the old fashioned way than it is to be self published. Hell, just a few short years ago self publishing was scorned.
thats actually kinda what i was trying to say but i said it really poorly.
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Yossarian_42
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If you were to write a novel today...
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There aren't very many Larry Correia's out there and I don't think than will change anytime soon. Self publishing is what you do when you can't get published the traditional way.
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Caoilin
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If you were to write a novel today...
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i just read an article about some bitch that published through amazon and became mad famous for her work and was making upwards of $1,000,000 a year because of it. a big publisher couldn't even come close to touching the deal she had with amazon's self pub deal. she gets to keep something like 70% of her sales.
edit: to answer your question, i'd probably try to self publish if i had any friends capable of helping me market and i could pay an independent editor to catch typos and grammar errors.
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GrimTempest
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^i read about the same person a couple months ago too.
its not common though, about as common as hitting it big in print like meyer did with her twilight books.
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Galois2005
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If you were to write a novel today...
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Ardenwolfe
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If you were to write a novel today...
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I work in publishing. I strongly recommend new authors try the traditional route first. If your writing is outstanding, the turnaround is worth it. Unfortunately, electronic publishing has the reputation of being full of . . . well, crap.
That's not to say there aren't some very successful authors who went that route. However, once they caught the attention of mainstream, most of those authors then went traditional as well. The Shack is an example of this.
Also, traditional publishing houses are slowly taking over the electronic medium as well. So, there'll be no escape from them if you intend to enter publishing as a career.
This business is brutal and not for the thin-skinned. Most new authors don't understand it takes years to develop a successful career as an author. Most believe they'll write a book and the world will come bashing down their door to buy their work. In most cases, that never happens. Rejection letters bash down their mailboxes instead.
The road to success is paved with the broken dreams of wanna-bes who gave up after the first hurdle.
Just know this now if you go into this business. It ain't for wimps.
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Galois2005
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If you were to write a novel today...
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Publishing is far from dead but they most certainly have to change, I know a certain very successful indie author that recently turned down a 6 figure publishing offer because it wasn't completive with his Amazon revenues. I also know that half his books got delisted by Amazon a week later because of technical blunders on Amazons part, I suspect he is having some reconsiderations.
Amazon is by far the big player for indies, don't quote me on numbers but I believe they return about 70% of revenues to the authors, Current publishing standard offers are not even close - that has to change as well as their pricing models - I would note that over half the top sellers in the Kindle store are by Indies - I can't fathom any other reason but pricing - publishers need to wake up here - there is no way ebook pricing should be anywhere near the cost of print.
On the flip side - To answer the OP's question - if I was to write a novel today - and it would be awful - I would call it "Vampires vs. Elves or the Evening Redness in the West" with a product description highlighting some kind of post- apocalypse time travel theme and hire a cover artist to make an awesome picture of a scantily clad elf with big boobies and a glowy sword. Then make a dozen fake accounts and give it all glowing 5 star reviews. I bet you it pulls in 20 grand by the time readers figure out it's horrid - highlighting everything that is wrong with Amazon.
See the child, he is pale and thin, he wears a thin and ragged linen shirt, he has pointy ears....
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Ardenwolfe
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If you were to write a novel today...
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http://kdp.amazon.com/self-publishing/help?topicId=A29FL26OKE7R7B
This is the program you're speaking of. Be sure to read all the fine print. Mainstream publishing will pay you a cash advance depending on perceived success of your work. A literary agent will take 10-15% standard from the advance. This advance potentially includes movie rights and deals should a company like Warner Bros. be interested.
If your work goes over the advance pay, you continue to earn royalties until the book no longer sells. The agent gets none of this payment. These royalties continue even after your death should the book continue to sell. This includes sales in bulk because it is part of a school or university's program like The Kite Runner.
If your work does not meet the advance, you keep the money, pay nothing back, and the publisher eats the cost. I just looked over The New York Times Bestseller list, and I didn't see any independent authors there.
Everything I listed is not true for Amazon's E-Seller's program. If anyone chooses to use this program, be sure go into it with your eyes wide open.
In publishing we have a saying: "Money always flows toward the author, not away." Keep this in mind if you go the e-publishing route. If you have to pay, you're doing it wrong.
I'm not even going to address the dishonesty advised here in using fake accounts to rake in "20 grand" and its pitfalls. 
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Galois2005
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If you were to write a novel today...
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[quote=Ardenwolfe
I'm not even going to address the dishonesty advised here in using fake accounts to rake in "20 grand" and its pitfalls. [/quote]
It was merely an attempt to illustrate a point -and that kind of thing most certainly does go on.
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vn_jurojin
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If you were to write a novel today...
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Are you honestly basing your opinion on one "certain very successful indie author"?
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Galois2005
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If you were to write a novel today...
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vn_jurojin posted:
Are you honestly basing your opinion on one "certain very successful indie author"?
No I'm basing it more on a reluctant nature of industries to change especially ones built around markets that had been very stable for a long time. I just don't see publishers running a web site and expecting to scoop 75% + off the top for digital distribution as a viable future, case above in point.
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Yossarian_42
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If Amazon hadn't shoved digital book distribution down their throats I might agree with you, but I'm pretty sure the publishers understand where all of this is going.
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GrimTempest
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amazon's goal is to take over publishing. their long term goal is to eliminate print books and control the digital publishing and distribution market. i'm sure they'll never come right out and say that but anyone whose closely watching the industry and whats going on can see it for what it is. they're fine with out of print books as a market as they will profit from them without competition but their overall goal is to see new books removed from print format (this removes publishing competition) and to take complete control of digital publishing so they can control the industry. i figure this will take about 15-20 years but it could happen faster. the real question is will anyone wise up fast enough to compete with them or will the print publishers find a better way to keep print books as a viable format.
i can tell you from both experience and watching whats going on with other stores that bookstores have already hit the point where they are no longer profitable unless they deal in more than books or are part of something like barnes and noble and have an e-book alternative to keep them going. regular print bookstores have no choice at this point but to stop specializing in just books and use other merchandise to supplement their income if they're to manage to stay afloat.
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Galois2005
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GrimTempest posted:
amazon's goal is to take over publishing. their long term goal is to eliminate print books and control the digital publishing and distribution market. i'm sure they'll never come right out and say that but anyone whose closely watching the industry and whats going on can see it for what it is. they're fine with out of print books as a market as they will profit from them without competition but their overall goal is to see new books removed from print format (this removes publishing competition) and to take complete control of digital publishing so they can control the industry. i figure this will take about 15-20 years but it could happen faster. the real question is will anyone wise up fast enough to compete with them or will the print publishers find a better way to keep print books as a viable format.
i can tell you from both experience and watching whats going on with other stores that bookstores have already hit the point where they are no longer profitable unless they deal in more than books or are part of something like barnes and noble and have an e-book alternative to keep them going. regular print bookstores have no choice at this point but to stop specializing in just books and use other merchandise to supplement their income if they're to manage to stay afloat.
Of course they want to be the big player - never blame the dog for being a dog.
Truth is though I don't see them as competent enough to pull it off - they have some serious IT issues, I know personally they have put some indies threw hell the last week with disappearing products and as I write this the vast majority of titles currently have their buy buttons missing and are unavailable in the US - no Suzanne Collins for you! I can't fathom how much as f**k up like that costs.
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vn_jurojin
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If you were to write a novel today...
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Galois2005 posted:
vn_jurojin posted:
Are you honestly basing your opinion on one "certain very successful indie author"?
No I'm basing it more on a reluctant nature of industries to change especially ones built around markets that had been very stable for a long time. I just don't see publishers running a web site and expecting to scoop 75% + off the top for digital distribution as a viable future, case above in point.
Oh, they'll wise up eventually. And the fact that 90% (relative statement) of self-published works are a huge pile of crap doesn't hurt them in the least.
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Galois2005
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If you were to write a novel today...
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Great article about Hugh that I think sums up exactly why traditional publishers are going to have to change.
http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/publisher-news/article/51416-self-made-bestseller-weighs-traditional-deals.html
$70K last month alone and growing, he could over the next year with more books coming make over $million on his Wool series alone. That may not impress George Martin or Suzanne Collins but you can be sure a lot of other published authors are going to be reconsidering their options, I read an article about a NYT bestseller that didn't earn that in it's entire run.
I suspect the question will quickly change from whether new authors should pursue traditional publishing to whether existing published authors will remain with them. I would not be surprised to see respected but less mainstream writers - Robert Macammon types - testing the water with novelette releases going the self-published Amazon route in the near future.
Congrats to Hugh anyways, that's a fantastic success story for a guy that only a few months ago was living in a tiny house and working at a book store, it should inspire anyone that wants to pursue writing though the vast majority struggle to get any recognition, and Wool to Hugh's credit is an exceptional piece of SF work. (Would not be surprised to see a Hugo nomination today)
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vn_jurojin
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Individual successes mean squat. When the average self-publisher starts to be comparable to traditional publishing is when changes will happen.
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