Elocism
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http://www.arena.net/blog/mike-obrien-on-microtransactions-in-guild-wars-2 article posted: In Guild Wars 2 we have three currencies: gold, karma, and gems. Gold is the common in-game currency. Karma, which players earn in-game but cannot trade, is used for unique rewards. And gems are the currency that’s bought and used to purchase microtransactions.
oh sweet, so i assume the cosmetic stuff and bag space, etc, will be purchasable with gems, yet gears and such will be in game gold but wait, THERES MORE article posted: We have a new player-driven market that allows players to trade gold for gems and gems for gold. If you want something, whether it’s an in-game item or a microtransaction, you ultimately have two ways to get it: you can play to earn gold or you can use money to buy gems.
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Mastara
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Well at least gold farmers wont be needed. Heck if its cheap enough Id buy some Screw all the farming and crap Id rather pvp
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Scarne
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Not pay to win.
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tenkly
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Oh well, I spent close to 2000$ on ROM, I'm more than willing to spend on gw2
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Hammerhand21
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Did you miss this part of the article Here’s our philosophy on microtransactions: We think players should have the opportunity to spend money on items that provide visual distinction and offer more ways to express themselves. They should also be able to spend money on account services and on time-saving convenience items. But it’s never OK for players to buy a game and not be able to enjoy what they paid for without additional purchases, and it’s never OK for players who spend money to have an unfair advantage over players who spend time. To me they are talking about fluff, not sure where you got your conclusion.
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Lyken-P
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Who care? Just a game. Also I am fine with it, since there is no monthly fee.
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Elocism
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Hammerhand21 posted: To me they are talking about fluff, not sure where you got your conclusion.
right. thats the stuff you buy with gems did you read my post? you can trade gems for in game currency
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ZigmundZag
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...and that's why I haven't yet jumped on the GW2 Fanwagon. There was still plenty of things they could do in development to ruin a perfectly good game.
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tenkly
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lol at people complaining that you can buy gold with gems. You don't NEED to buy gold with gems, and if you think that's what ruins a game then just don't play, the millions of other players who won't cry over it will still enjoy it just fine.
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Elocism
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tenkly posted: millions
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ZigmundZag
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I also think it's hilarious that the devs and morons like Mastboro think that this will eliminate gold farming.
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tenkly
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gw2 will be more successful than SWTOR. Rom is awesome and has more players playing than SWTOR, they also have a cash shop. The game is awesome.
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NuEM
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But is it DAoC?
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Scarne
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Elocism posted: did you read my post? you can trade gems for in game currency
And? You can only trade the gems to other players for in game currency, you can't trade them to NPCs to make in-game currency out of thin air. If you try to flood the market with gems, it will end up crashing the price as there won't be enough demand to buy them.
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Yukishiro1
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It's not really pay to win but I don't like it.
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dae_trist
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You could pay for gear in just about every RPG, save the ones where everything is BOP - in that case, you mindlessly grind to win and the guy with the most free time wins.
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imaloon1
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dae_trist posted: You could pay for gear in just about every RPG, save the ones where everything is BOP - in that case, you mindlessly grind to win and the guy with the most free time wins.
You mean the Chinese don't you....
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dae_trist
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Or pay Chinese people to play your char for you, sure.
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Yossarian_42
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As long as the stuff you buy is not exclusive to real money I have zero problem with this. The issue comes when people can buy things that non-paying players have no access to.
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Ptilk
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You can make your character look like a Pimp in TF2, spend thousands of dollars in real money to get all the latest and coolest stuff, including weapons that do neat things and have funny as hell animations associated with them..... But... All those cool weapons do either the same, or less damage than the ones you start with. I murder and dominate people every day who are wearing a hundred dollars worth of stuff they bought to make their characters uber...and I suck at the game. It's quite possible to set up a system where no matter how much crap you buy, it wont make you a better player or give you and edge against players that don't buy anything. You can also do it in such a way that people will still buy the crap despite that fact.
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sweeny_comodore
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so i can purchase gems, then trade gems for gold to buy gear? so basically all i really have to do is write a macro to hunt a static spawn for the next week and then load up on gems that i can sell to the gold farmers?
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Mastara
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I never got into gw1. Only played for a week. Hopefully gw2 can break that record for me
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GrilledCheez
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Elo is straining so hard to ruin the fun because he's a son of a bitch. His title doesn't even match the two sections of the article he quoted. If you can play and get anything you can buy with real money it is not pay to win.
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__Bonk__
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Im looking forward to the game. Dont see why some people try to ruin the fun of others. I will be there with the Outpost!
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Yukishiro1
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Elo is just upset SWTOR turned out to be a big flop. It doesn't even let you look good. All the gear is hideous and you can't even dye it Pink.
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Special-Fred
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Sin_of_Onin
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So they are making people choose between grinding out +1s or just paying for them and people don't think this is a problem?
If those +1s matter in PVP this is a rather large issue.
If you can't buy +1s with gold then wtf do you have gold?
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tenkly
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Learn 2 read. You can buy them with gold
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Yukishiro1
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Gear doesn't matter at all in competitive PVP, and it apparently matters very little in world PVP.
And if it's like most games, you won't be able to buy the best gear with gold because it'll be BOP.
They're also not letting you buy gold directly. No new gold enters the system. If all you can do with gems is buy cosmetic crap I'm not sure how much of a market there is going to be. You may end up with a ton of people who buy the RL currency who can't find anyone to trade it for ingame currency with, at least not at reasonable prices.
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Sin_of_Onin
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tenkly posted: Learn 2 read.
You can buy them with gold
Then Elo is right, it is pay to win.
I guess that MMO PVP will forever be dominated by a +1 battle as opposed to PVP.
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sweeny_comodore
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tinkles still doesnt get it will you be able to trade the gems back in for real cash? if so the gold farmers will love trading their gold for gems
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tenkly
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How is it pay to win if anyone can buy +1 with gold at anytime that they want? udum?
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tenkly
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sweeny_comodore posted:
will you be able to trade the gems back in for real cash?
no
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Scarne
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sweeny_comodore posted: will you be able to trade the gems back in for real cash?
Nope.
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sweeny_comodore
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tenkly posted: How is it pay to win if anyone can buy +1 with gold at anytime that they want? udum?
because you can buy gold with gems you bought with real world money. get it, pay for loots with real money.... why grind for gold when you can just buy it?
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tenkly
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You need to find people that are willing to trade their gold for your gems.
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Sin_of_Onin
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tenkly posted: How is it pay to win if anyone can buy +1 with gold at anytime that they want? udum?
Either the +1 matters or it doesn't. If there are really no +1s in PVP then it will hard to have any economy. If they matter then it will be a competition of who has the most +1s and money matters in that race.
Basically the best scenario is that gear doesn't matter in PVP which is problematic in an MMO. Basically any scenario require some game element to be undermined significantly whether it is the economy or gear or whatever.
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tenkly
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Unhh it's only problematic if you're a shitty wow player.. oh wait you are.
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Sin_of_Onin
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tenkly posted: Unhh it's only problematic if you're a shitty wow player.. oh wait you are.
It is only problematic if you prefer PVP to be about skill and not a +1 race. We all know what kind of player you are. Bitch.
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tenkly
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Unhh.. you do know GW2's competitive pvp is set so everyone has the same gear.. right?
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Sin_of_Onin
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You mean instanced PVP right?
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tenkly
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When a player takes a character into PvP, they are granted access to all the necessary skills, items, etc. Characters are set to the maximum level, putting everyone on an even playing field. This makes player skill more important than time invested in a particular character. When you take your character back to the PvE environment, you return to the skills and gear you had there, but the game will save your last PvP setup. You'll also be able to store templates for builds. This way, you can try out new stuff in PvP but still easily return to your familiar builds. Each profession will load into PvP with a starter template that allows new players to have a competent build without needing to delve into detailed skill selection, item selection, or other tweaks. However, these more detailed customization options will be available for players who are more comfortable with the system.
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tenkly
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As far as world PVP goes, a +1 on a few items won't make a huge difference when you have 50 vs 50 battles.
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Yukishiro1
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sweeny_comodore posted:
will you be able to trade the gems back in for real cash?
of course not. the whole purpose of the system is to make money for arenanet. why would they let you trade the currency back into RL cash?
dont be dumb
also, if it's like all other mmos the best gear can't be bought with gold so it will not really effect end-game world pvp
I still don't like it but it's not really pay to win, it's more pay to avoid having to farm for gold
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sweeny_comodore
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Yukishiro1 posted:
sweeny_comodore posted:
will you be able to trade the gems back in for real cash?
of course not. the whole purpose of the system is to make money for arenanet. why would they let you trade the currency back into RL cash? dont be dumb
i figured as much but im not to familiar with these pay to win systems
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Yukishiro1
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P.S. Thinking about this again, although I don't like the system I think I like it better than paying 15 bucks a month for a sub. If this is the cost of making the game have no monthly fee I think it's worth it. As long as you can't buy anything with gold that actually gives you a meaningful endgame PVP advantage.
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__Bonk__
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People who love the game will pay way more than $15 per month to play
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Kordirn
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Ptilk posted: You can make your character look like a Pimp in TF2, spend thousands of dollars in real money to get all the latest and coolest stuff, including weapons that do neat things and have funny as hell animations associated with them..... But... All those cool weapons do either the same, or less damage than the ones you start with. I murder and dominate people every day who are wearing a hundred dollars worth of stuff they bought to make their characters uber...and I suck at the game. It's quite possible to set up a system where no matter how much crap you buy, it wont make you a better player or give you and edge against players that don't buy anything. You can also do it in such a way that people will still buy the crap despite that fact.
You can also easily find or craft those weapons. So there really isn't much reason other than fluff to buy them.
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Sezyrrith
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Elocism posted: http://www.arena.net/blog/mike-obrien-on-microtransactions-in-guild-wars-2 article posted: In Guild Wars 2 we have three currencies: gold, karma, and gems. Gold is the common in-game currency. Karma, which players earn in-game but cannot trade, is used for unique rewards. And gems are the currency that’s bought and used to purchase microtransactions.
oh sweet, so i assume the cosmetic stuff and bag space, etc, will be purchasable with gems, yet gears and such will be in game gold but wait, THERES MORE article posted: We have a new player-driven market that allows players to trade gold for gems and gems for gold. If you want something, whether it’s an in-game item or a microtransaction, you ultimately have two ways to get it: you can play to earn gold or you can use money to buy gems.
I don't see anything in there stating that microtrans items will not be limited to cosmetic items or bag space. [Edit:]Think about GW1 and the old-school 10k armor. It cost a LOT to get those, in ingame cash. They did NOTHING besides look different. I seriously doubt ANet is going to do a 180 and suddenly put high-end armor in the cash shop after GW1 has nothing of the sort in its already long-existing shop.
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Elocism
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and i agree that you can only buy fluff with gems you should probably read harder
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Sezyrrith
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Elocism posted: and i agree that you can only buy fluff with gems you should probably read harder
And they say you can buy actual armor with ingame currency where in that quote? I can't think of the last game I played that the standard gold currency was usable to purchase anything worth using in endgame pvp. It's been drops and alternate currencies for years, pretty much every game I've played.
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Yukishiro1
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teh Bonk posted: People who love the game will pay way more than $15 per month to play
Right, and I won't have to pay anything. They'll pay for me.
That is cool with me. If the price for that is that some of them will be able to get gold with real-life cash - which they can in any other game too, they'd just need to buy it through a 3rd party source - that seems an ok price to pay for me.
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tenkly
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I have no problem spending RL cash for random stuff I find neat in the cash shop. If the game is fun , I don't mind supporting the company and get some cool stuff at the same time.
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