NeoKarnak posted:

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You run out of fuel and bullets before you can conquer the whole thing IMO.

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Mangler_SC posted:

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They would make a serious dent, but eventually Roman numbers alone would crush them.

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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NeoKarnak posted:

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You run out of fuel and bullets before you can conquer the whole thing IMO.

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wouldnt have to head straight to Rome, cut the head off.this would depend on where the meu was deployed and if that meu still had support of the gator navy.

a platoon of abrams rolling into rome with cobra gunships and harriers flying support.

the tech level that a modern meu would bring would make them gods.

even a bic lighter would someone a minor deity.

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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NeoKarnak posted:

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You run out of fuel and bullets before you can conquer the whole thing IMO.

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wouldnt have to head straight to Rome, cut the head off.this would depend on where the meu was deployed and if that meu still had support of the gator navy.

a platoon of abrams rolling into rome with cobra gunships and harriers flying support.

the tech level that a modern meu would bring would make them gods.

even a bic lighter would someone a minor deity.

@Cutt Marines still learn how to use a compass and map, in bootcamp or mct.

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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I think everybody is looking at this wrong, the marines would be treated as gods instead of a mere mortal humans. The Romans couldnt even comprehend the technology level of the Marines. Like guns and missiles would be thunderbolt's from the gods, helicopters and aircraft would be magical flying mounts.

example wwii when the US showed up on many of those secluded tribal pacific islands, they treated them as gods because of the technology level.

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Cuttlery posted:

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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NeoKarnak posted:

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You run out of fuel and bullets before you can conquer the whole thing IMO.

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wouldnt have to head straight to Rome, cut the head off.this would depend on where the meu was deployed and if that meu still had support of the gator navy.

a platoon of abrams rolling into rome with cobra gunships and harriers flying support.

the tech level that a modern meu would bring would make them gods.

even a bic lighter would someone a minor deity.

---

I think you are missing the piece about even finding Rome. No GPS, no modern communication. Unless they were right on top of Rome they'd never even find Rome before running out of gas. A compass doesnt do a lot of good, if you dont know where you are, and have no map.

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Ah-Schoo posted:

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Cuttlery posted:

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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[quote=NeoKarnak]You run out of fuel and bullets before you can conquer the whole thing IMO.

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wouldnt have to head straight to Rome, cut the head off.this would depend on where the meu was deployed and if that meu still had support of the gator navy.

a platoon of abrams rolling into rome with cobra gunships and harriers flying support.

the tech level that a modern meu would bring would make them gods.

even a bic lighter would someone a minor deity.

---

I think you are missing the piece about even finding Rome. No GPS, no modern communication. Unless they were right on top of Rome they'd never even find Rome before running out of gas. A compass doesnt do a lot of good, if you dont know where you are, and have no map.

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Ah-Schoo posted:

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What are the chances of the average American even finding Rome on a map?

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jeune posted:

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I think when you go into any battle with an ego like that you are probably going to end up like Custer.

"To the thousands of indian warriors howling their murderous war cries, it was just like hunting buffalo.

Before them, hundreds of American soldiers were retreating in disarray, stumbling and dying on the grassy slope above the Little Bighorn River.

These were no longer government troopers but terrified members of a desperate mob.
The indians, on foot and on horseback, riddled them with bullets, pummelled them with stone hammers and shot them down with arrows."


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1289686/General-Custers-reckless-ego-led-men-needless-deaths-famed-Last-Stand-Little-Bighorn-new-book-reveals. html#ixzz1plBfPMkp

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aon_mixed posted:

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look, forget all the bs conjecture about FINDING Rome, here is the premise as written up by the guy who got the movie deal

DAY 1

The 35th MEU is on the ground at Kabul, preparing to deploy to southern Afghanistan. Suddenly, it vanishes.

The section of Bagram where the 35th was gathered suddenly reappears in a field outside Rome, on the west bank of the Tiber River. Without substantially prepared ground under it, the concrete begins sinking into the marshy ground and cracking. Colonel Miles Nelson orders his men to regroup near the vehicle depot—nearly all of the MEU’s vehicles are still stripped for air transport. He orders all helicopters airborne, believing the MEU is trapped in an earthquake.

Nelson’s men soon report a complete loss of all communications, including GPS and satellite radio. Nelson now believes something more terrible has occurred—a nuclear war and EMP which has left his unit completely isolated. Only a few men have realized that the rest of Bagram has vanished, but that will soon become apparent as the transport helos begin circling the 35th’s location.

Within an hour, the 2,200 Marines have regrouped, stunned. They are not the only moderns transported to Rome. With them are about 150 Air Force maintenance and repair specialists. There are about 60 Afghan Army soldiers, mostly the MEU’s interpreters and liaisons. There are also 15 U.S. civilian contractors and one man, Frank Delacroix, who has spoken to no one but Colonel Nelson.

Miraculously, no one was killed during the earthquake but several dozen people were injured, some seriously. All fixed-wing aircraft and the attack helicopters were rendered inoperable by the shifting concrete, although the MEU did not lose a single vehicle or transport helicopter.

As night falls, the MEU has established a perimeter. A few locals have been spotted, but in the chaos no one has yet established contact. Nelson and his men, who are crippled without mapping software and GPS to fix their position, begin attempting to fix their location by observing stars. The night is cloudy. Nelson orders four helicopters back into the air at first light, to travel along the river in hopes of locating a settlement.

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Ah-Schoo posted:

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Cuttlery posted:

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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[quote=NeoKarnak]You run out of fuel and bullets before you can conquer the whole thing IMO.

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wouldnt have to head straight to Rome, cut the head off.this would depend on where the meu was deployed and if that meu still had support of the gator navy.

a platoon of abrams rolling into rome with cobra gunships and harriers flying support.

the tech level that a modern meu would bring would make them gods.

even a bic lighter would someone a minor deity.

---

I think you are missing the piece about even finding Rome. No GPS, no modern communication. Unless they were right on top of Rome they'd never even find Rome before running out of gas. A compass doesnt do a lot of good, if you dont know where you are, and have no map.

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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jeune posted:

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I think when you go into any battle with an ego like that you are probably going to end up like Custer.

"To the thousands of indian warriors howling their murderous war cries, it was just like hunting buffalo.

Before them, hundreds of American soldiers were retreating in disarray, stumbling and dying on the grassy slope above the Little Bighorn River.

These were no longer government troopers but terrified members of a desperate mob.
The indians, on foot and on horseback, riddled them with bullets, pummelled them with stone hammers and shot them down with arrows."


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1289686/General-Custers-reckless-ego-led-men-needless-deaths-famed-Last-Stand-Little-Bighorn-new-book-reveals. html#ixzz1plBfPMkp

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really now do you even know the actual details of the battle? Custer ignored orders, split his command, left his gatling gun and cannon support behind, because he considered it a burden.

what it basically boiled to was the Indians out gunned the Army.
the Indians had better guns then Custers men, Indians where equipped with repeating lever action rifles they looted or traded for.
and the Army was using single action flip top springfield rifles.

you act like the Indians pulled off a brilliant strategic victory, no they got lucky due to inept leadership of Gen Custer.

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Cuttlery posted:

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aon_mixed posted:

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look, forget all the bs conjecture about FINDING Rome, here is the premise as written up by the guy who got the movie deal

DAY 1

The 35th MEU is on the ground at Kabul, preparing to deploy to southern Afghanistan. Suddenly, it vanishes.

The section of Bagram where the 35th was gathered suddenly reappears in a field outside Rome, on the west bank of the Tiber River. Without substantially prepared ground under it, the concrete begins sinking into the marshy ground and cracking. Colonel Miles Nelson orders his men to regroup near the vehicle depot—nearly all of the MEU’s vehicles are still stripped for air transport. He orders all helicopters airborne, believing the MEU is trapped in an earthquake.

Nelson’s men soon report a complete loss of all communications, including GPS and satellite radio. Nelson now believes something more terrible has occurred—a nuclear war and EMP which has left his unit completely isolated. Only a few men have realized that the rest of Bagram has vanished, but that will soon become apparent as the transport helos begin circling the 35th’s location.

Within an hour, the 2,200 Marines have regrouped, stunned. They are not the only moderns transported to Rome. With them are about 150 Air Force maintenance and repair specialists. There are about 60 Afghan Army soldiers, mostly the MEU’s interpreters and liaisons. There are also 15 U.S. civilian contractors and one man, Frank Delacroix, who has spoken to no one but Colonel Nelson.

Miraculously, no one was killed during the earthquake but several dozen people were injured, some seriously. All fixed-wing aircraft and the attack helicopters were rendered inoperable by the shifting concrete, although the MEU did not lose a single vehicle or transport helicopter.

As night falls, the MEU has established a perimeter. A few locals have been spotted, but in the chaos no one has yet established contact. Nelson and his men, who are crippled without mapping software and GPS to fix their position, begin attempting to fix their location by observing stars. The night is cloudy. Nelson orders four helicopters back into the air at first light, to travel along the river in hopes of locating a settlement.

---

Exactly, they are lost, and are probably going to be out of gas before then even get to an actual battle. Air support will be worthless. By the end of the first real battle the group is out of gas, out of bullets, and are not trained to fight in hand to hand combat like a roman soldier. They are basically screwed.

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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a meu has 30 days of self sustaining capability, I guess you want to ignore that fact and also they are on the tiber river which is only 252 miles long.

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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a meu has 30 days of self sustaining capability, I guess you want to ignore that fact and also they are on the tiber river which is only 252 miles long.

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jeune posted:

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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jeune posted:

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I think when you go into any battle with an ego like that you are probably going to end up like Custer.

"To the thousands of indian warriors howling their murderous war cries, it was just like hunting buffalo.

Before them, hundreds of American soldiers were retreating in disarray, stumbling and dying on the grassy slope above the Little Bighorn River.

These were no longer government troopers but terrified members of a desperate mob.
The indians, on foot and on horseback, riddled them with bullets, pummelled them with stone hammers and shot them down with arrows."


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1289686/General-Custers-reckless-ego-led-men-needless-deaths-famed-Last-Stand-Little-Bighorn-new-book-reveals. html#ixzz1plBfPMkp

---

really now do you even know the actual details of the battle? Custer ignored orders, split his command, left his gatling gun and cannon support behind, because he considered it a burden.

what it basically boiled to was the Indians out gunned the Army.
the Indians had better guns then Custers men, Indians where equipped with repeating lever action rifles they looted or traded for.
and the Army was using single action flip top springfield rifles.

you act like the Indians pulled off a brilliant strategic victory, no they got lucky due to inept leadership of Gen Custer.

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no I am saying Custers ego killed him... he thought he could take destroy all of the Natives with his superior technology... that they would be no match.

You fail to realize the people living there have superior knowledge of the terrain, they have food, they are protecting THEIR FAMILIES AND WAY OF LIFE.

Okay American get there... what are they going to eat? How are they going to wipe their ass? How are they going to avoid all of the germs/crap... I am sure that people living back then have tons of germs/better immune system.

You are just not thinking about things strategically anymore and you are setting yourself up for failure.

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Cuttlery posted:

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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a meu has 30 days of self sustaining capability, I guess you want to ignore that fact and also they are on the tiber river which is only 252 miles long.

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You believe that 30 days means self sustaining with limited gas, limited ammo, lost, no comms, no GPS, and in battles? I thought you were in the military? I was in the damn Navy doing nothing and I know better than this. Are you sure you were actually in the service?

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Cuttlery posted:

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Do you know what this means? " an austere expeditionary environment. "

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jeune posted:

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Custer had a group of 750 U.S. soldiers attacking a village with women and children. He was certain that he could ride through and conquer anything in his path.

He was using the same mindset as people thinking the Marines (with no knowledge of the other-side) can ride in with very little people and destroy someone.

I was just trying to make the point that when you have that mindset you are most likely overlooking crap that will lead to your death.

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AkagiyamaMissile posted:

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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jeune posted:

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Custer had a group of 750 U.S. soldiers attacking a village with women and children. He was certain that he could ride through and conquer anything in his path.

He was using the same mindset as people thinking the Marines (with no knowledge of the other-side) can ride in with very little people and destroy someone.

I was just trying to make the point that when you have that mindset you are most likely overlooking crap that will lead to your death.

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because Custer ignored US Army doctrine and training.
if he would have taken his gatling guns and cannons and set up them up, the outcome would've have probably been different.

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jeune posted:

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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jeune posted:

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Custer had a group of 750 U.S. soldiers attacking a village with women and children. He was certain that he could ride through and conquer anything in his path.

He was using the same mindset as people thinking the Marines (with no knowledge of the other-side) can ride in with very little people and destroy someone.

I was just trying to make the point that when you have that mindset you are most likely overlooking crap that will lead to your death.

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because Custer ignored US Army doctrine and training.
if he would have taken his gatling guns and cannons and set up them up, the outcome would've have probably been different.

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U.S. doctrine says you are allowed to start war with another Nation by yourself?

Given the fact that this highly absurd situation would require ignoring US army doctrine and training I think it is a fair analogy.

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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did you read my post?
he didnt have tech superiority the Indians did in this one battle because Custer choose to leave his gatling guns(he had 2 issued to him) plus a some field cannons. those would have gave him the edge in fire power, but no the where left behind.

the army had single shot rifles you had to reload every bullet after each shot and the Indians had repeating rifles which was basically the assault rifle of that age.

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JD_HOGG posted:

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I imagine that Pizarro and his men did not possess unlimited supplies, ammo, maps, GPS, etc. For all practical purposes, they may as well have teleported into the past because they couldn't exactly helivac away back to civilization. Are our marines as bad ass as these Spaniards were?

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jeune posted:

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JD_HOGG posted:

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I imagine that Pizarro and his men did not possess unlimited supplies, ammo, maps, GPS, etc. For all practical purposes, they may as well have teleported into the past because they couldn't exactly helivac away back to civilization. Are our marines as bad ass as these Spaniards were?

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maybe... the Spanish won because as they were marching to the empire all of the slaves started following them. It was more like a revolution. Maybe if the local people were fed up with the ruling class they could effectively start a revolution and have the power to back it up.

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JD_HOGG posted:

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Ah-Schoo posted:

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What are the chances of the average American even finding Rome on a map?

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Easy. Just follow a road. They all lead to Rome.

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JD_HOGG posted:

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I imagine that Pizarro and his men did not possess unlimited supplies, ammo, maps, GPS, etc. For all practical purposes, they may as well have teleported into the past because they couldn't exactly helivac away back to civilization. Are our marines as bad ass as these Spaniards were?

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-Dyslexia- posted:

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http://www.reddit.com/r/RomeSweetRome/

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Cuttlery posted:

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JD_HOGG posted:

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I imagine that Pizarro and his men did not possess unlimited supplies, ammo, maps, GPS, etc. For all practical purposes, they may as well have teleported into the past because they couldn't exactly helivac away back to civilization. Are our marines as bad ass as these Spaniards were?

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Spaniards were trained to use ancient weaponry is the biggest difference. Once spaniards ran out of ancient gun ammo they could easily move to sword and ancient armor. Once Marines ran out of bullets they arent trained in sword and armor, they'd be out tech'd by the Romans at that point.

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Cuttlery posted:

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JD_HOGG posted:

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I imagine that Pizarro and his men did not possess unlimited supplies, ammo, maps, GPS, etc. For all practical purposes, they may as well have teleported into the past because they couldn't exactly helivac away back to civilization. Are our marines as bad ass as these Spaniards were?

---

Spaniards were trained to use ancient weaponry is the biggest difference. Once spaniards ran out of ancient gun ammo they could easily move to sword and ancient armor. Once Marines ran out of bullets they arent trained in sword and armor, they'd be out tech'd by the Romans at that point.

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aon_mixed posted:

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DAY 2

Nelson's helos launch at dawn. As they rise into the air, one crew spots a distant pillar of smoke and excitedly begins bearing down on this sign of life.

Meanwhile, the mysterious appearance of the Marines has not gone unnoticed. Peasants have fled to the home of the land's owner, Senator Aulus Terentius Varro Murena. It is 23 BC, and Murena is about to form a Republican conspiracy against Augustus Caesar. He and other Senators are deeply suspicious of the Imperator and fear that he will swamp their ancient order with newly minted Senators from his swelling armies. The appearance of a small but apparently competent armed force - with a vast array of what appears to be bizarre siege machinery - on his land makes him fear the worst. He dispatches several spies to monitor the visitors and orders his retainers to avoid the camp. He also sends messengers to his co-conspirators in the Senate.

At noon, two Sea Knight helicopters roar over Rome at 12,000 feet. Stunned, the pilots swoop in lower and lower. After a half-hour of sightseeing, coming in as low as 1,000 feet, they can no longer deny the evidence of their eyes - this is not the place or time they had occupied the day before. They leave to report. Behind them, they leave a city in chaos, as terrified Romans flee the awful creatures in the sky. Sacrificial pyres fill the city with smoke, and priests of every religion shout in the streets.

Imperator Augustus Caesar observes all of this, first as the Senate empties in the middle of a speech and then on horseback as he grimly follows the creatures to the city's borders at the head of a growing body of horsemen. As they recede into the distance, Augustus whirls and begins snapping orders. The horsemen vanish, and soon the city militia is calling for order. The three cohorts of the Praetorian Guard march from their barracks. 1,000 men take up station on the western edge of the city, while 2,000 more restore order, cracking heads where necessary.

Caesar returns to the Senate, where Murena and a few men exchange knowing glances. "My fellow Romans," he says simply, "those were machines, not creatures. I've seen enough campaigns to know the difference." Grizzled military veterans in his audience are smart enough not to dwell long on the difference between their field experience and his.

"It appears, gentlemen of the Senate, that we have a war on our hands."

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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you act like Rome had all their legions just camped out around the capital doing nothing.
when Augustus ruled it was during the golden age of the Roman empire, their legions where off fighting wars on the borders trying to gain more lang.

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Cuttlery posted:

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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you act like Rome had all their legions just camped out around the capital doing nothing.
when Augustus ruled it was during the golden age of the Roman empire, their legions where off fighting wars on the borders trying to gain more lang.

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So the 2000 Marines could train themselves in ancient weaponry and armor to be proficient enough to fight hundreds of thousands faster than the legions could get back to Rome... Got it.

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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they learn how to fight with a bayonet in bootcamp.
what so different with a rifle equipped with a bayonet and a spear?

plus I am sure somebody knows how to reload ammo.
also gun powder isnt hard to make if you know the recipe for it and lead was common in Rome because they used it on everything including food and drinks.

just gotta pick up your brass.


even a muzzle loader would wtf pwn a Roman soldier.

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Cuttlery posted:

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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they learn how to fight with a bayonet in bootcamp.
what so different with a rifle equipped with a bayonet and a spear?

plus I am sure somebody knows how to reload ammo.
also gun powder isnt hard to make if you know the recipe for it and lead was common in Rome because they used it on everything including food and drinks.

just gotta pick up your brass.


even a muzzle loader would wtf pwn a Roman soldier.

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You seriously werent in the military were you...

A bayonet is not even close to the same thing as a sword, they also do not train like the legions did against a shield. They dont train the same kind of tactics. Its not even remotely in the same realm of the same.

Maybe they could set up a oil refinery too, in your magical unit. I'm sure someone knows how to refine oil too right? Is there a atomic physicist in this group as well? I'm sure there is, so they probably oculd just make nukes.

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aon_mixed posted:

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DAY 3

Nelson and his command staff are stunned. Not one of his men speaks more than a dozen words in Latin. Nelson begins assembling a list of possible interpreters from his Spanish-speaking soldiers, and at the suggestion of a classically minded major he adds the dozen or so Marines fluent in German.

He pores over the inventories. His aviation fuel won't last longer than six months, the high-octane fuel necessary to run the Humvees maybe another year after that. He knows that he could technically rig machines to run on wood gas or even coal, but that seems highly impractical.

He has ammunition. He has fuel. He has food. He has medical supplies. But he doesn't have that much of any of these things. The 35th MEU was going to be dependent on a vast logistical pipeline from the first day of its deployment. He commanded one of the most powerful, terrifying forces in the world - especially in what appeared to be its new (old?) world - but it was one with a short half-life.

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Cuttlery posted:

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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you act like Rome had all their legions just camped out around the capital doing nothing.
when Augustus ruled it was during the golden age of the Roman empire, their legions where off fighting wars on the borders trying to gain more lang.

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So the 2000 Marines could train themselves in ancient weaponry and armor to be proficient enough to fight hundreds of thousands faster than the legions could get back to Rome... Got it.

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Cuttlery posted:

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its funny that A, you keep leaving important tidbits out of your bolding like this..

But he doesn't have that much of any of these things. The 35th MEU was going to be dependent on a vast logistical pipeline from the first day of its deployment. He commanded one of the most powerful, terrifying forces in the world - especially in what appeared to be its new (old?) world - but it was one with a short half-life.

and B) you dont seem to understand that the guy writing this is not in the military, you do know thats made up right and not even close to realistic? This is all movie material...

Do you have any idea how much fuel a years worth of octane is for a Humvee? Let alone for Abrams, Helicopters, etc etc... That figure is movie material, not real life material. You were in the military I thought, you do know this right?

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Cuttlery posted:

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aon_mixed posted:

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look, forget all the bs conjecture about FINDING Rome, here is the premise as written up by the guy who got the movie deal

DAY 1

The 35th MEU is on the ground at Kabul, preparing to deploy to southern Afghanistan. Suddenly, it vanishes.

The section of Bagram where the 35th was gathered suddenly reappears in a field outside Rome, on the west bank of the Tiber River. Without substantially prepared ground under it, the concrete begins sinking into the marshy ground and cracking. Colonel Miles Nelson orders his men to regroup near the vehicle depot—nearly all of the MEU’s vehicles are still stripped for air transport. He orders all helicopters airborne, believing the MEU is trapped in an earthquake.

Nelson’s men soon report a complete loss of all communications, including GPS and satellite radio. Nelson now believes something more terrible has occurred—a nuclear war and EMP which has left his unit completely isolated. Only a few men have realized that the rest of Bagram has vanished, but that will soon become apparent as the transport helos begin circling the 35th’s location.

Within an hour, the 2,200 Marines have regrouped, stunned. They are not the only moderns transported to Rome. With them are about 150 Air Force maintenance and repair specialists. There are about 60 Afghan Army soldiers, mostly the MEU’s interpreters and liaisons. There are also 15 U.S. civilian contractors and one man, Frank Delacroix, who has spoken to no one but Colonel Nelson.

Miraculously, no one was killed during the earthquake but several dozen people were injured, some seriously. All fixed-wing aircraft and the attack helicopters were rendered inoperable by the shifting concrete, although the MEU did not lose a single vehicle or transport helicopter.

As night falls, the MEU has established a perimeter. A few locals have been spotted, but in the chaos no one has yet established contact. Nelson and his men, who are crippled without mapping software and GPS to fix their position, begin attempting to fix their location by observing stars. The night is cloudy. Nelson orders four helicopters back into the air at first light, to travel along the river in hopes of locating a settlement.

---

Exactly, they are lost, and are probably going to be out of gas before then even get to an actual battle. Air support will be worthless. By the end of the first real battle the group is out of gas, out of bullets, and are not trained to fight in hand to hand combat like a roman soldier. They are basically screwed.

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Aethelgrin posted:

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I'd have to get some numbers on how many soldiers the Roman Empire had available near the location to start with.

Reminds me a bit of the manga/anime Zipang, except that was infinity times more interesting.

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deadcactus posted:

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One sniper rifle and a backpack full of ammo would destroy the Roman Empire. Just keep killing the emperor and they'd think Zeus is striking down their empire with thunder...

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Mangler_SC posted:

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And although a Marine is definitely not a slouch when it comes to hand to hand combat, they would be no match for a full fledged Roman advance.

Roman soldiers carried their own packs of 80-120 pounds all day, dropped them and were ready for a battle.

Again, sheer numbers carries the day.

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Caledric posted:

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Mangler_SC posted:

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And although a Marine is definitely not a slouch when it comes to hand to hand combat, they would be no match for a full fledged Roman advance.

Roman soldiers carried their own packs of 80-120 pounds all day, dropped them and were ready for a battle.

Again, sheer numbers carries the day.

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Just how light do you think a Marine's gear is? lol 80-120 lbs? Our infantry would love to only carry that much weight around!

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Caledric posted:

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Mangler_SC posted:

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And although a Marine is definitely not a slouch when it comes to hand to hand combat, they would be no match for a full fledged Roman advance.

Roman soldiers carried their own packs of 80-120 pounds all day, dropped them and were ready for a battle.

Again, sheer numbers carries the day.

---

Just how light do you think a Marine's gear is? lol 80-120 lbs? Our infantry would love to only carry that much weight around!

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Cuttlery posted:

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Caledric posted:

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Mangler_SC posted:

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And although a Marine is definitely not a slouch when it comes to hand to hand combat, they would be no match for a full fledged Roman advance.

Roman soldiers carried their own packs of 80-120 pounds all day, dropped them and were ready for a battle.

Again, sheer numbers carries the day.

---

Just how light do you think a Marine's gear is? lol 80-120 lbs? Our infantry would love to only carry that much weight around!

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It doesnt matter, in hand to hand combat with a sword and shield a Roman soldier is easily going to defeat a Marine, its all about the training.

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Mangler_SC posted:

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Cuttlery posted:

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Caledric posted:

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[quote=Mangler_SC]And although a Marine is definitely not a slouch when it comes to hand to hand combat, they would be no match for a full fledged Roman advance.

Roman soldiers carried their own packs of 80-120 pounds all day, dropped them and were ready for a battle.

Again, sheer numbers carries the day.

---

Just how light do you think a Marine's gear is? lol 80-120 lbs? Our infantry would love to only carry that much weight around!

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It doesnt matter, in hand to hand combat with a sword and shield a Roman soldier is easily going to defeat a Marine, its all about the training.

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TheUnholyGhost posted:

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Marine kevlar would be more than up to the task of a Roman sword....

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Caledric posted:

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Lol, most roman soldiers were not nearly as skilled as you want to believe they were, also your forgetting about a Marine's armor and training. You are also forgetting that Marines would not be fighting the Roman's in a straight line smash into each other style. They would break off into groups and do guerrilla warfare. A legionnaire 1 v 1 was not that skilled. Their strength was in the line... Marines would not fight them on the line... Also Marines ESPECIALLY infantry are familiar with swords.

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Mangler_SC posted:

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Caledric posted:

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Lol, most roman soldiers were not nearly as skilled as you want to believe they were, also your forgetting about a Marine's armor and training. You are also forgetting that Marines would not be fighting the Roman's in a straight line smash into each other style. They would break off into groups and do guerrilla warfare. A legionnaire 1 v 1 was not that skilled. Their strength was in the line... Marines would not fight them on the line... Also Marines ESPECIALLY infantry are familiar with swords.

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You seem to be completely overestimating a Marine and underestimating what a Roman is capable of.

Again, it wouldn't be easy and I have no doubt that the Marine would do well for a short time, but the weight of numbers would win the day.

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JD_HOGG posted:

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Cuttlery posted:

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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you act like Rome had all their legions just camped out around the capital doing nothing.
when Augustus ruled it was during the golden age of the Roman empire, their legions where off fighting wars on the borders trying to gain more lang.

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So the 2000 Marines could train themselves in ancient weaponry and armor to be proficient enough to fight hundreds of thousands faster than the legions could get back to Rome... Got it.

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Well, the Marines could probably garner some support from Germanic tribes and the Gauls, who were still hostile toward Rome at the time. It would have taken a year to get troops back to Rome to fight. And let's not forget they had just gone through a civil war, not everyone in Rome was pleased with the result. Some people who still commanded legions would probably see this as an opportunity to kick Augustus in the ass.

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jeune posted:

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Do you guys think people are actually stupid enough to stand and fight against someone who is way more advanced?

The modern day army cannot even win the war against terrorism... because people hid in caves/sneak attack... yet you expect them to be able to take down the largest empire the world has known?

My guess is that they had their own catapults and crap that would take out a tank... that none of the equipment would even be able to cross a river and they would probably have to abandon them way early since there is no bridges/they would most likely knock them down.

You guys are acting like Romans are a different species. They are just like us without technology... they have atheist/different religions they are not like animals who you can predict.

I am guessing that the military leaders of the day are going to vastly out wit the leading Marine commander who was teleported back... they know the terrain. Also soldiers at this time were much more disciplined... they pretty much swore their life to their commanders... that is why you had so many civil wars the people would follow their leaders over the Nation.

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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any fighting force that sees a couple legions worth of men annihilated with no causalities to the enemy is going to have their morale shattered.

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Day 8 posted:

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It is just after midnight. The camp still hums with activity. The water purification units thrum, filtering the brackish water of the swampy Tiber. Generators buzz everywhere. Warning flags flutter where engineers are planning channels to drain off marsh water without subsiding the already fragile concrete under Wonderland. Many of the broken slabs on Wonderland's borders have been pushed on their edges, forming a jagged maze. Marine snipers wait patiently in the labyrinth, scanning the darkness with night-vision goggles. If they curse the mosquitoes, they do it silently. Delacroix has not heard anyone complain about the bugs, although he himself seethes with hatred about them.

But then, Frank Delacroix doesn’t talk much.

It’s a short walk to the latrines, which have already been placed behind an arc of concrete on the southwestern edge of the camp. A small stream tumbles merrily under them, carrying the camp’s waste down to the Mediterranean. There’s a pile of scrap metal, moved here earlier in the day. It allows Delacroix to make a quick turn, unobserved by the sentries he knows are out there, toward the maintenance shed which has become an improvised brig. Two men are in there – a Marine who was hoarding stolen cigarettes, and Sixtus Murena.

There are two Marines on duty. Delacroix silently hands them a slip of paper. They take it and read it, professionally. Their posture is perfect. They are polite and unruffled as they get on the radio to confirm what it says. They are courteous as they usher the hoarder quietly to the latrines, and he is grateful enough for the break to stay quiet himself. They hate Delacroix. He doesn’t fit. In a world that doesn’t make sense, he’s the target of ugly and increasingly bizarre rumors. He’s fine with that.

Sixtus Murena is sitting on his bunk when Delacroix comes in. He is alert but stony. Delacroix likes the kid.

“I understand you’re learning Spanish.” Delacroix’s accent is clipped, Castilian, unlike Menendez’s Mexican accent, but Murena nods. Delacroix muses for a second. Even our minority languages have dialects. That’s intel to them, too.

“I have a proposition.”

When the Roman ambassador arrives six hours later, Sixtus Murena is gone. The guards are debriefed and sworn to secrecy, as is Menendez. The hoarder is shown a bloody pillowcase, with two neat holes punched through it. He remains quiet as well.

Delacroix sits down behind Colonel Nelson as the meeting gets underway. The two men say nothing to each other.

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Cuttlery posted:

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Sith I think you are confused about this movie scenario.... You do realize you are reading from a movie script and no one else here is correct? We are all talking about what would really happen, not what would happen in movie land.

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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Cuttlery posted:

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Sith I think you are confused about this movie scenario.... You do realize you are reading from a movie script and no one else here is correct? We are all talking about what would really happen, not what would happen in movie land.

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who is this we?
there are enough posters in this thread that believe the Marines would be successful.

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Cuttlery posted:

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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Cuttlery posted:

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Sith I think you are confused about this movie scenario.... You do realize you are reading from a movie script and no one else here is correct? We are all talking about what would really happen, not what would happen in movie land.

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who is this we?
there are enough posters in this thread that believe the Marines would be successful.

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We is everyone, this thread has nothing to do with this movie script. The question is if you travelled back in time could the Marine unit take out the Roman Empire. You are taking some mythical movie script which has nothing but fantasy to do with the question. Quit referring to the script. What happens if the Marine unit is transported to ancient Rome in Britain? What if the unit is transported to ancient Spain. North Africa. This movie script has nothing to do with the question aside from some guys mythical this is what could have happened. Remove the movie script from your thought process and stick to the origional question posed.

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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I was using facts at first like a MEU deploys with a month worth of supplies, or that inferior races will treat far more advanced races of beings as gods. Those are two real life facts.

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.-Vega-. posted:

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Cuttlery posting pages of retarded nonsense, rife with misspellings and signs of a meatheaded mentality.

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Cuttlery posted:

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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I was using facts at first like a MEU deploys with a month worth of supplies, or that inferior races will treat far more advanced races of beings as gods. Those are two real life facts.

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Except you dont seem to know what a months worth of supplies means...
Its a fact...based on many many factors which you dont seem to realize so you keep bouncing away from the actual question to this movie script.

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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you dont understand the full definition of MEU do you?

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Cuttlery posted:

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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you dont understand the full definition of MEU do you?

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Certainly do, so I am fully aware that 30 days self sustaining doesnt mean that if they were dropped into the middle of Great Britian in ancient times that they'd have enough fuel to make it to Rome for a war, especially with no navigation and no communication systems.

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Cuttlery posted:

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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I was using facts at first like a MEU deploys with a month worth of supplies, or that inferior races will treat far more advanced races of beings as gods. Those are two real life facts.

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Except you dont seem to know what a months worth of supplies means...
Its a fact...based on many many factors which you dont seem to realize so you keep bouncing away from the actual question to this movie script.

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SLAgent posted:

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I wonder what the effectiveness of a modern assault rifle is while firing homemade black powder and modified to work without percussion caps.

no actually i do, its an interesting 'post apocalyptic' scenario

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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except they wherent dropped in England for ffs.

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Caledric posted:

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Cuttlery posted:

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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I was using facts at first like a MEU deploys with a month worth of supplies, or that inferior races will treat far more advanced races of beings as gods. Those are two real life facts.

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Except you dont seem to know what a months worth of supplies means...
Its a fact...based on many many factors which you dont seem to realize so you keep bouncing away from the actual question to this movie script.

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I realize the world thinks of us as Jarheads who are the dumbest people on the earth but if you really think we'd be limited to just the supplies we brought you are kidding yourselves. Hell Iraq and Afghanistan are a PERFECT example, we barter for food and other things with the locals there constantly. Yes we get supplies from Germany and the States but alot of the supplies are also local.

Also, there would be no running out of bullets as everyone wants to assume... a Marine MEU's armory is designed to hold out for at least 6 months against equally armed and armored foes. The Romans are neither equally armored nor armored to stop anything a Marine would shoot at them... A .50 cal aka Ma Deuce would DESTROY an entire Formation of Romans without wasting much ammo, it would take down 3-5 Romans per SHOT... not to mention you have the Grenade launchers and Projectile weapons.

Now someone mentioned the Roman's siege engines... those would work great against the Hmmves... They would bounce of the Abrams. You also have the air assult that the Helos would impart. Again going back to Marines not being as dumb as everyone thinks they are... We would use the Helos sparingly.

The first thing the MEU would do is set up a base... they would set it up to be highly defensible with THEIR weapons... They would begin tearing apart anything deemed unncessary and start creating more ammunition. They would venture out in small teams to open relations with the locals and start bartering services and goods. After the initial base is set up they would then begin to emplace forward outposts, and defensible flanking positions manned with 50 cals and SAWs.

They would not march on Rome itself but let Rome come and try to conquer it. The Roman "melee advantage" would never exist.


As far as how I know all this dear Cuttlery... I've LIVED it. Something I'm 1000% certain you can't say yourself. Also, you have to take into consideration one other thing here... I'm agreeing with Sith despite the fact that I don't believe he was ever in the military.

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Cuttlery posted:

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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except they wherent dropped in England for ffs.

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They were dropped on the Tiber river in this movie scenario, not in the origional question, which again you keep ignoring, which is why I keep asking you to ignore the movie script. You dont seem to understand that the movie script has nothing to do with the question. The movie script was one guys interpretation of the question, not the ultimate answer to the question. Again, you need to ignore the movie script and stick with the actual question being asked.

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Cuttlery posted:

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I have no doubts about the Marines abilities, they cant make gas though. Once they run out of gas they have problems even with the ability to make bullets. Unless they are dropped in the ideal movie script situation that Sith keeps referring to its going to be a very very rough go. They have limited supplies of personel is their problem. If they build a base, they cant conquer Rome, they'd actually need to attack Rome to conquer it.

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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or ancient China etc...

if you want to use that excuse I can say the Marines can show up where ever the hell they want to if you want to go down that road.

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Cuttlery posted:

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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or ancient China etc...

if you want to use that excuse I can say the Marines can show up where ever the hell they want to if you want to go down that road.

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China and the rest of those arent a part of ancient Rome, Great Britian is. So basically your stance is you are going to take the most convenient place to land a Marine group and ignore the rest of the Empire just because it fits your view just so that the Marines win. My view is that they could have landed ANYWHERE in Rome based on the actual question being asked, and depending on where they landed they may or may not win.

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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Cuttlery posted:

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I have no doubts about the Marines abilities, they cant make gas though. Once they run out of gas they have problems even with the ability to make bullets. Unless they are dropped in the ideal movie script situation that Sith keeps referring to its going to be a very very rough go. They have limited supplies of personel is their problem. If they build a base, they cant conquer Rome, they'd actually need to attack Rome to conquer it.

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why do you need gas to make bullets?

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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and you conveniently pick the furthest point away so that the marines loose?

whats the difference.

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Cuttlery posted:

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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Cuttlery posted:

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I have no doubts about the Marines abilities, they cant make gas though. Once they run out of gas they have problems even with the ability to make bullets. Unless they are dropped in the ideal movie script situation that Sith keeps referring to its going to be a very very rough go. They have limited supplies of personel is their problem. If they build a base, they cant conquer Rome, they'd actually need to attack Rome to conquer it.

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why do you need gas to make bullets?

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No air support, no tanks, no vehicles.

If we take out that the Romans win easily just by manpower. They could lose men thousands to 1 and still win. Just need their archers at that point.

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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as long as you can make black powder you can make a gun.
prisoners make guns in prison all the time with limited resources.
all they have is knowledge.

marines with muzzle loaders would still mow down Roman legions.
and I am sure marine armorers could craft flintlock muzzleloading rifles and blunderbuss's with the equipment they have.

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aon_mixed posted:

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hey, a MEU brings a full battery of artillery (that's 155mm rounds) too, so yeah, those shrapnel rounds will do a good number to a whole lotta dudes all massed up in one formation

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aon_mixed posted:

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that's assuming everything went ashore of course... had they insta-portaled back 2000 years, chances are the ships with the harriers and hovercrafts did not go with them

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DunesVladHarkonnen posted:

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In the actual question it says with a modern U.S. Marine infantry battalion or MEU [Marine Expeditionary Unit]?


Srs question. Is there a difference between the two? And if so, what is it?

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SLAgent posted:

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@ Ptilk: which does lend credence to your theory that the techs would be the main push of a surviving force..as your average marine infantry hasn't really had that much technical education that the locals of the time wouldn't also have. Arabic numerals and some of the basic algebra would be a watershed, but for the day to day stuff the math level the locals used was sufficient.

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Sith_Mauler posted:

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the knowledge of basic tools like the water wheel or wind mill,hot air balloon, even how a steam engine works would jump start human tech.

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Ptilk posted:

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You don't take a few thousand well armed people and plop them down in a place where they are never going to see their families again, surrounded by easily dominated and mostly ignorant(by the Marines standards) natives and not have a few of those armed people think, "Hey, I can do whatever the hell I want and screw the rest of these idiots".

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