Here’s the basic outline of House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan’s 2013 budget in one sentence: Ryan’s budget funds trillions of dollars in tax cuts, defense spending and deficit reduction by cutting deeply into health-care programs and income supports for the poor.

Brother_Tempus posted:

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Unless the budget is cut somehow.. we will just pull a Greece, but unlike the Greeks .. Americans are well armed

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But instead of using the savings from social programs to pay off what he calls a “mountain of debt,” Ryan dishes out tax cuts; the federal debt would continue to grow, by $4 trillion, over his 10-year plan, and the federal budget would remain in deficit.

SoBaKi posted:

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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Unless the budget is cut somehow.. we will just pull a Greece, but unlike the Greeks .. Americans are well armed

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It's been stated over and over, cutting alone will NOT help. I agree we need cuts, but we also need increased revenue to pay the outstanding debt.

The poor and the middle class have been bleed dry due specifically to republican policies. Your comment about Americans being well armed is spot on, but I believe for the wrong reasons.

When the 99% finally have had enough, then the poorly armed Americans will need to worry.

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Yukishiro1 posted:

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Lemme guess without reading the thread:

Cuts taxes on rich people, cuts benefits for poor people?

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ZigmundZag posted:

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But you raise revenues by lowering taxes! The Austrians said so.

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-Espiritu- posted:

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nobody in this thread so far has the slightest idea about what the Ryan budget entails. And no, reading an Ezra Klein op-ed does not qualify as research.

The main difference between the two proposed budgets is that only Ryan's plan deals with the mathematical and demographic realities of our countries entitlement programs. The second largest difference is that Ryan's plan also addresses the mess of our tax collection system. With absolutely no reforms to the tax system included in Obama's budget, I can only assume he is happy with GE paying nothing in taxes and Buffet paying 14%.

Dem rich folks you hate so much, that pay less than 20% to taxes now, will have to pay 25% under Ryan's plan... but feel free to continue trumpeting the lie about tax cuts for the rich. I guess I should probably be careful labeling people liars, when they likely are just too stupid to understand the concept.

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Skinnyrumcakes posted:

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Because I'm simple, I think this problem is simple.

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theredkay1 posted:

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This is an economic growth and employment problem.

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imaloon1 posted:

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ZigmundZag posted:

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But you raise revenues by lowering taxes! The Austrians said so.

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Stop being a dick.

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ZigmundZag posted:

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I would be cool with a plan that required $10 or more in cuts for every $1 in increased taxes. Republicans not only adamantly refuse to make such a deal, they're going in the completely opposite direction.

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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Only the private sector can generate growth and jobs.

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Scarne posted:

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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Only the private sector can generate growth and jobs.

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False

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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Scarne posted:

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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Only the private sector can generate growth and jobs.

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False

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If my statement was false then Cuba, the former USSR, AND North Korea would be economic powerhouses

Since they are not, my statement is true

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Skinnyrumcakes posted:

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This is simple. We have to drastically cut spending. Obama refuses to cut spending. The Republicans at least have laid out plans to cut spending.

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Jaedence posted:

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Skinnyrumcakes posted:

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This is simple. We have to drastically cut spending. Obama refuses to cut spending. The Republicans at least have laid out plans to cut spending.

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Republicans = Greece and the EU.

See how well that's working out for them?

Krugman said we needed an even larger stimulus than we had.

How is the US (stimulus) plan working vs the EU (cut spending) plan?

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Skinnyrumcakes posted:

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I got nothing except staying in the closet?

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Scarne posted:

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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Scarne posted:

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[quote=Brother_Tempus]Only the private sector can generate growth and jobs.

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False

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If my statement was false then Cuba, the former USSR, AND North Korea would be economic powerhouses

Since they are not, my statement is true

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ZigmundZag posted:

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It's funny how people who say Communism fails never bother to mention China.

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ZigmundZag posted:

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It's funny how people who say Communism fails never bother to mention China.

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-Espiritu- posted:

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ZigmundZag posted:

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It's funny how people who say Communism fails never bother to mention China.

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a hardline communist nation that begins employing free market principles in a booming global economy, will definitely experience significant growth and prosperity. Allowing individuals to better their position (from the new 100 million member middle class - to the new elite) has been a huge driver of growth.

on the contrary, when you've got increased government control and micromanagement , you get what has happened here in the United States.

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-Espiritu- posted:

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a hardline communist nation that begins employing free market principles in a booming global economy, will definitely experience significant growth and prosperity. Allowing individuals to better their position (from the new 100 million member middle class - to the new elite) has been a huge driver of growth.

on the contrary, when you've got increased government control and micromanagement, you get what has happened here in the United States.

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-Espiritu- posted:

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what do you call the gubmint takeover of our healthcare systm Sobukakke?

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-Espiritu- posted:

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what do you call the gubmint takeover of our healthcare systm Sobukakke?

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SoBaKi posted:

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-Espiritu- posted:

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what do you call the gubmint takeover of our healthcare systm Sobukakke?

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It's anything but "the sky is falling" idiocy you think it is.

Given the number of people the "free market" ignores with regards to health care, the Government had to step in to help. Is it a perfect answer? Of course not, but unless you're willing to let people die because they lack health care, what would you have done to solve the problem?

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ZigmundZag posted:

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It's funny how people who say Communism fails never bother to mention China.

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-Espiritu- posted:

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what do you call the gubmint takeover of our healthcare systm

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Bjorvald posted:

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Ryan's budget is a disaster mainly because it doesn't cut defense nearly enough. I have no issue with indigent care being sent to the states.

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Ptilk posted:

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..... Get rid of the Obama tax cuts, tax capital gains at the same rate as other income....and the "we are broke" stupidity vanishes as the budget is suddenly balanced and we can get on with living and stop panicking and wailing that we are all doomed....

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Lyken-P posted:

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Ptilk posted:

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..... Get rid of the Obama tax cuts, tax capital gains at the same rate as other income....and the "we are broke" stupidity vanishes as the budget is suddenly balanced and we can get on with living and stop panicking and wailing that we are all doomed....

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Fixed

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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theredkay1 posted:

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This is an economic growth and employment problem.

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In my pretend world, infrastructure, education and health care only slow an economy and they dont count as real jobs.

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ZigmundZag posted:

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It's funny how people who say Communism fails never bother to mention China.

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Skinnyrumcakes posted:

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ZigmundZag posted:

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It's funny how people who say Communism fails never bother to mention China.

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If only there was an asian country we could split in half and have one side have communism and the other side a form of capitalism/socialism and then compare and see how each of them did and have something like oh...a DMZ seperate them.

But that wouldn't be fair unless we included a western nation as well, so if only there was a western nation we could split in half and have one side have communism and the other side again be a form of capitalism/socialism and see how they fared. We could probably just build something like a wall in between to seperate them, no need for a DMZ so we can see if that changes anything.

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Ptilk posted:

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Austerity is stupidity.

Anyone supporting the concept is a god damned idiot. Believe the bull shit they are throwing at you....and you prove that you are moronic.

Get rid of the "Bush era" tax cuts, tax capital gains at the same rate as other income....and the "we are broke" stupidity vanishes as the budget is suddenly balanced and we can get on with living and stop panicking and wailing that we are all doomed.

Many of you are such god damned cowardly stupid little propaganda swallowing dumb asses. WTF? Can you not even think? Do simple fricken math?

It's not about reality with you dick bags however, it's all about ideology. You WANT us to be broke so you can crap on any possible safety net. Screw those poor people, you guys are better than them, you get to strut around and talk shit about them and feel all superior and the hell with grandma or some kid born into abject poverty.

All of you on the side of massive cuts to spending are exactly like BT. Think about that. You are him, just as stupid, just as short sighted, just as full of opinions based upon your religion of "capitalism". Look in the mirror and smile at the nut bag standing in front of you.

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Bjorvald posted:

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As long as people keep buying bonds we can spend, spend, spend, till the cows come home! 20% of GDP?? pfft.

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-Espiritu- posted:

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Bjorvald posted:

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As long as people keep buying bonds we can spend, spend, spend, till the cows come home! 20% of GDP?? pfft.

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This statement is correct. As long as we can rollover our previous debt, and the new debt we incur, through the sale of bonds, we can continue spending.

Unfortunately the hunger for our debt is already being artificially stimulated by the Federal Reserve, whose balance sheet has grown by $2 Trillion dollars. When The Fed becomes the only customer for treasuries... well then all that needs to happen is the world to reject our currencies reserve status, and kaboom.

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theredkay1 posted:

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-Espiritu- posted:

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Bjorvald posted:

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As long as people keep buying bonds we can spend, spend, spend, till the cows come home! 20% of GDP?? pfft.

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This statement is correct. As long as we can rollover our previous debt, and the new debt we incur, through the sale of bonds, we can continue spending.

Unfortunately the hunger for our debt is already being artificially stimulated by the Federal Reserve, whose balance sheet has grown by $2 Trillion dollars. When The Fed becomes the only customer for treasuries... well then all that needs to happen is the world to reject our currencies reserve status, and kaboom.

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Why would the world reject using the dollar as a unit of exchange?

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theredkay1 posted:

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What is that kaboom?

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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Becuase they will realize it is worthless like all fiat currencies that came before and those that will follow after

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Scarne posted:

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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Becuase they will realize it is worthless like all fiat currencies that came before and those that will follow after

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The entire world uses fiat currencies.

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