Bonzoboy1 posted:

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When we consider 1 in 4 students graduating high school nationwide as an increase maybe we need to take all the feel good stuff out of schools and concentrate just on giving kids an good basic education.

And after the financial meltdown why aren't we requiring a money management class?

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poetkiosk posted:

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She loves band - but now it's just test prep for the upcoming state exams.


This is what America wants...so this is what we have now.


Test prep instead of art and learning.




On the plus side at least we have accountability.

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Tych2 posted:

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It's so dumb. They are learn how to take a test but not learning.

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paulg_68 posted:

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Instead of bitching about this why don't you lobby to get band included on the test.

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Allstarslacker posted:

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The arts cultivate thought and reflection.

The greatest periods of technological advancement were also the greatest artistic periods.

This is not a coincidence.

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Ashmaele posted:

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They're replacing art and music and extracurricular stuff with test prep.

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Bjorvald posted:

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Kinda hard to justify band or art when you can't figure out 2+2.

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Tych2 posted:

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Ashmaele posted:

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They're replacing art and music and extracurricular stuff with test prep.

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They learn while doing art and music. I know you believe this too. I know you don't think they only learn from math and science.

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poetkiosk posted:

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She loves band - but now it's just test prep for the upcoming state exams.

This is what America wants... kids who actually know something more substantive than how to make noise with a piece of pipe.

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Ashmaele posted:

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Tych2 posted:

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Ashmaele posted:

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They're replacing art and music and extracurricular stuff with test prep.

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They learn while doing art and music. I know you believe this too. I know you don't think they only learn from math and science.

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Absolutely. I guess I misunderstood your point.

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Tych2 posted:

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Ashmaele posted:

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Tych2 posted:

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[quote=Ashmaele] They're replacing art and music and extracurricular stuff with test prep.

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They learn while doing art and music. I know you believe this too. I know you don't think they only learn from math and science.

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Absolutely. I guess I misunderstood your point.

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Bonzoboy1 posted:

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I have a guy who works for me, can barely read, but he is an artist as a welder and I am lucky to have him. What is so bad about doing a skilled job and doing it well?

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Modeeb posted:

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The arts are for the spirit. What a bureaucratic futz up.

Test prep is a soul drainer.

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Modeeb posted:

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The arts are for the spirit. What a bureaucratic futz up.

Test prep is a soul drainer.

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paulg_68 posted:

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Modeeb posted:

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The arts are for the spirit. What a bureaucratic futz up.

Test prep is a soul drainer.

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Why is it a soul drainer? Poet claims to teach the "right way" and says that his students score very high on the tests. That would seem to indicate that teaching the "right way" is actually very good test prep.

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poetkiosk posted:

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Yeah its turning acting into a dull affair. Students practice 3 scenarios over and over again because that's what is on the test.

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Bonzoboy1 posted:

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I'm not saying he can't read but it is very slow and difficult for him, his math skills are actually very good. My point is that if he had access to a good vocational school he might have been able to to become a boilermaker or ironworker and made better money.

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Eager_Igraine posted:

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Bonzoboy1 posted:

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I have a guy who works for me, can barely read, but he is an artist as a welder and I am lucky to have him. What is so bad about doing a skilled job and doing it well?

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A fine point. I also wonder how life is for a skilled worker who can't read and/or understand enough basic math to take care of their personal finances. Your worker is certainly lucky you aren't cheating him. How would he know?

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poetkiosk posted:

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they used to do a lot of improv and the students loved it. now they can hardly fill the classes.

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paulg_68 posted:

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poetkiosk posted:

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they used to do a lot of improv and the students loved it. now they can hardly fill the classes.

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So why don't you lobby for improv to be be added to the test?

Oh that's right, you don't care about improving things. You just want to bitch about Bush.

Carry on.

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Tych2 posted:

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The only person that even mentioned Bush was you Paul.

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__Bonk__ posted:

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Standardized tests make teachers look bad. This is why teachers are against them

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Bonzoboy1 posted:

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There should be math and reading but they should gear it towards the vocational fields, some may even need some advanced classes to meet their job goals. There is nothing wrong with education, we just need to change what some kids are taught.

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Friarspam posted:

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I'd suggest that there need to be basic core classes (like now) coupled with aptitude testing. That way the focus of the learning for the kids would be something they'd be interested in/good at.

Not everyone will follow the same path in life. I don't see where it's so bad if Little Timmy "has" to become a plumber. Have you had to hire one of those guys recently?

The idea of exit testing is a good one, as long as it's in generalized terms that can't be "clocked" by making kids study the test for a month.

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Bonzoboy1 posted:

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Art, music and sports should be the parents responsibility, we can't afford it anymore.

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GrilledCheez posted:

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schools suck now. They are far worse than they were when I was in school. it's pathetic.

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Phlegm573 posted:

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The quality of schools in this town is wildly variable.

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ineenia posted:

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Bonzoboy1 posted:

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Art, music and sports should be the parents responsibility, we can't afford it anymore.

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We could easily afford music and sports in schools if business owners like yourself would quit cheating on their taxes and/or abusing the tax code

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Ashmaele posted:

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Phlegm573 posted:

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The quality of schools in this town is wildly variable.

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Are schools funded by property taxes where you live?

I know there is rampant criticism by the teaching community here of the way schools are funded, which is primarily by property tax receipts. This method ensures that schools in the "rich section" will pretty much always be better than "poor" schools because property tax receipts in the poorer areas tend to be much lower.

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AzureTyger posted:

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Politicians have really made a mess out of public education. The state of management in most school systems is just mind-numbingly awful.

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ineenia posted:

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We could easily afford music and sports in schools if business owners like yourself would quit cheating on their taxes and/or abusing the tax code.

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ineenia posted:

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Bonzoboy1 posted:

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Art, music and sports should be the parents responsibility, we can't afford it anymore.

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We could easily afford music and sports in schools if business owners like yourself would quit cheating on their taxes and/or abusing the tax code.It erks me that you think it is perfectly ok for us to pay for a meal for you and your wife that you are more than capable of paying for,but money to teach kids an art or a sport "oh we need to cut back there,can't afford that!"(probably said with large chunks of tax payer funded food in between his teeth)..very douchy !

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Tych2 posted:

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Ashmaele posted:

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Phlegm573 posted:

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The quality of schools in this town is wildly variable.

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Are schools funded by property taxes where you live?

I know there is rampant criticism by the teaching community here of the way schools are funded, which is primarily by property tax receipts. This method ensures that schools in the "rich section" will pretty much always be better than "poor" schools because property tax receipts in the poorer areas tend to be much lower.

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They REALLY need to change how schools are funded. Property tax has to be one of the most horrible ways to do it.

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Bjorvald posted:

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We had music, sports, art, debate, etc, etc, growing up. And we spent about half what we spend now, per pupil after inflation.

The problem ISN'T a lack of money. It's how the money is being pissed away.

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Yukishiro1 posted:

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Where do you think the money is being pissed away?

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theredkay1 posted:

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I thought that a great portion of the increased school costs were due to class size reductions over the last two decades?

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Yukishiro1 posted:

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theredkay1 posted:

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I thought that a great portion of the increased school costs were due to class size reductions over the last two decades?

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This is true. Well, I dunno about "great." But it's definitely a big chunk.

I'm not sure the science behind it is all that solid, frankly. But teachers unions love it because it means more teachers hired which means more union dues.

I mean I'm sure smaller classes help but I'm not sure it's very cost efficient in terms of the benefits.

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Yukishiro1 posted:

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They don't need to take special ed kids

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Phlegm573 posted:

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The quality of schools in this town is wildly variable. It just so happens that I work next to the best PS in NYC. Once I have kids of school age, I hope to live in its zone.

Unfortunately, that "zone" is "Tribeca." Hence, the purchase of Megamillions tickets mentioned in another thread.

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Yukishiro1 posted:

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I hope

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GrymmDAOC posted:

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How do you evaluate students without actually trying to find out what they have learned and how much they know?

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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Anyhow, teacher-student ratios are not the cause of increase costs in public schools since private ones are able to do the same and stay profitable

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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the private school my kids go to has a 10:1 ratio and a good percentage of the kids are advanced academically compared to the grade designation and the school makes a profiit


Anyhow, teacher-student ratios are not the cause of increase costs in public schools since private ones are able to do the same and stay profitable

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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GrymmDAOC posted:

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How do you evaluate students without actually trying to find out what they have learned and how much they know?

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by the work they have done in class

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theredkay1 posted:

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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the private school my kids go to has a 10:1 ratio and a good percentage of the kids are advanced academically compared to the grade designation and the school makes a profiit


Anyhow, teacher-student ratios are not the cause of increase costs in public schools since private ones are able to do the same and stay profitable

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Be interesting to see if the key difference is.....more revenue?

It doesnt appear that you have considered that revenue might be a variable.

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GrymmDAOC posted:

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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GrymmDAOC posted:

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How do you evaluate students without actually trying to find out what they have learned and how much they know?

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by the work they have done in class

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And how is grading the math sums little johnnie done in class any different from a test?

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GrymmDAOC posted:

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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GrymmDAOC posted:

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How do you evaluate students without actually trying to find out what they have learned and how much they know?

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by the work they have done in class

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And how is grading the math sums little johnnie done in class any different from a test?

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Ashmaele posted:

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GrymmDAOC posted:

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Brother_Tempus posted:

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[quote=GrymmDAOC]How do you evaluate students without actually trying to find out what they have learned and how much they know?

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by the work they have done in class

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And how is grading the math sums little johnnie done in class any different from a test?

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Rosaria posted:

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I would argue that the reason students are so ill-prepared for life is because of the absence of art, literature, and music in their core curriculum. Brain stimulation happens on a variety of levels, and the human brain is not fully developed until ages 18-21 years of age. Cognitive and perceptual development is not solely based on how well one does in math and science but also includes how well one is taught how to think, how to appreciate, and how to extend oneself into multiple arenas. Entire regions of interest and development are literally lobbed off when music and art are eliminated from a student's educational experience. In terms of how well our country and its people function globally, we are poor at producing people who can innovate and problem-solve. We can't compete as long as we are producing entire cities whose adult population is functionally illiterate. I consider art and music vitally essential to how we adjunctively educate our children both in terms of stimulation and overall well-being. We can't afford not to.

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Yukishiro1 posted:

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I'm not sure the science behind it is all that solid, frankly. But teachers unions love it because it means more teachers hired which means more union dues.

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